The Embarrassing Referendum 282


I declared this blog an EU referendum free zone a few months ago. In the last couple of days I chanced to be in Edinburgh, Perth, Dundee, Banchory and Edzell on quite other business, and can report the remarkable fact that I did not see a single house or flat exhibiting a Leave or Remain poster. It is not just this blog, the entire country is an EU referendum free zone.

Personally I remain an EU enthusiast, but I am horrified by the arguments being put forward by the Remain campaign, and even more by the personalities associated with it. I could never display a Remain poster in case people felt I agreed with David Cameron. I strongly suspect that explains the mass public apathy, which friends tell me is no different down south. Whatever their views on the EU, people do not want in any way to be associated with George Osborne, David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Tony Blair or Peter Mandelson on one side, or with Ian Duncan Smith, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson et al on the other.

There is a fascination in watching Tories pulling each others heads off. The level of intra-Tory hatred is really ramping up now. The Leave Tories have just worked out the Remain Tories are all liars. The Remain Tories have just worked out the leave Tories are all liars. The rest of us knew all the Tories are liars for years.


282 thoughts on “The Embarrassing Referendum

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  • KingOfWelshNoir

    Cameron warned today Brexit would cost an extra £230 on a family holiday. Can it get any more desperate than that? And still three weeks to go.

    • tris

      The ignorant prat doesn’t realise that millions can’t afford holidays, and so it won’t much affect them.

      I’ve never experienced so little interest in anything political before. Even I am indifferent.

      It’s fascinating to see Tories calling Tories liars. As Craig said, they are late to the realisation. The rest of us have been aware for many years.

      Still some weeks to go. I wonder what kind of mind blowing numptyism they will be warning us about within days of the referendum… and will Gordon Brown be sent to save Europe?

    • Anon1

      Yes. It’s going to cost each family £4,300 and an 18% drop in the value of their house.

      • Alcyone: Where is Habby?

        Hello hallo Anon, are you being serious? Sometimes it’s hard to tell…

  • Carol Gilmour

    I just don’t like the graphics of the IN campaign. Don’t suppose you would come and speak at a debate for IN in June in Fife?

  • Tom

    It’s all a bit of a pantomime, that’s why. Remain will win easily, and the Tories are pretending to be at odds with each other so the anti-EU brigade don’t join UKIP in the aftermath. If the Tory eurosceptics really objected to Cameron’s behaviour they would have resigned from office and from the party. As it is, I wouldn’t mind betting that among the first things Cameron does after Remain wins is offer Johnson a Cabinet position.

  • Anon1

    But you do agree with David Cameron. And with George Osborne, Tony Blair, Campbell, Major, Straw, Mandelson and all of the rest of them. The CBI, virtually the entire corporate business world and mainstream media. With Juncker, Lagarde, the IMF, Obama, the US political establishment, the corporations, big business and the banks. The BBC, Kuennsberg, ITV, Sky, C4 and the Guardian.

    They are all with you, Craig, but you haven’t even the balls to put forward your arguments because you are ashamed of the company you keep.

    • Shatnersrug

      Did you use all your brain cell to come up with that anon? Or just half? Guess what else Craig shares with all those people? Yes, that’s right, he likes food, clearly by your logic he must be a Tory then.

      • DrNobby

        “I declared this blog an EU referendum free zone a few months ago”

        “Personally I remain an EU enthusiast”

        All the same, if Craig says he’s for IN, the least he could do is tell us why, or stop mentioning from time to time that he supports the IN vote (not the IN campaign).
        Either his blog is a (happily) EU Ref. Free Zone, or it isn’t. You can’t say it is then blog about it.

        • Shatnersrug

          Well seeing as it’s his blog and not yours he can do whatever he likes. The comments are not about the referendum they are about the Tories reveal their true personalities to their voters, and to members of their own party, which is quite ugly.

  • RobG

    Craig, I’m also very pro-Europe; in fact I would call myself a European above and beyond being a Brit.

    With the ‘project fear’ stuff Britain will probably vote to remain in; but in what? the EU is now so corrupt that I fear it’s beyond redemption.

    We live in interesting times.

    But wait… there is a revolution now happening in France….

  • Ben Monad

    How does one maintain an ‘EU enthusiasm’? I suspect it’s a cover story for ever-increasing skepticism on salvaging our current systems of government. I don’t envy you Craig. It’s not easy to resurrect a Phoenix.

    • RobG

      ‘EU enthusiasm’’ involves the rule of law and human rights, etc.

      Europe is the cradle of modern ‘civilisation’, for all its faults.

      The United States of America is the most disgusting, barbaric and criminal country that has ever existed.

      • Ben Monad

        “The United States of America is the most disgusting, barbaric and criminal country that has ever existed.” A bold statement but without redemptive self-awareness. Perhaps you hold Europe in some special esteem based upon longevity? I thought so.

        • RobG

          To give you just one example, there’s a mega problem in America at the moment with heroin addicts (and of course none of it is properly reported in Stepford-Wives-Land). Just about all this heroin comes from Afghanistan, which is under the control of the US military.

          It’s flown to America on CIA flights.

          The CIA are a criminal organisation, as are the American government.

          If interested here’s a 10 minute ITV piece about the heroin problem in America…

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c7sMAOI9xo

          Of course, this ITV piece doesn’t really tell you where the heroin came from (Afghanistan)

      • bevin

        “The United States of America is the most disgusting, barbaric and criminal country that has ever existed.” And entirely the production of Europeans given the opportunity to devour a continent.

  • Pudsma

    Sick of the rediculous hysteria . Saw Harriet Harmon unable to recognise 7 leaders of the EU. You’d have thought she would have familiarised herself in these quite important matters – rather than talking down to ‘stupid’ people who want out.
    Seen the errors in the Osbourne dodgy dossier… Lies!
    Have absolutely no trust in the conservatives or the quite distasteful blairite Labour. Women’s rights I’m sure we have and will always protect. Workers rights – unions are quite capable of dealing with. The European court on Human rights may well be able to help the few….who can get legal aid…..but the fact is our own access to justice in the UK courts has been eroded period……..So most people can’t access our own courts…let alone ECHR. Now that is a home-born problem of huge proportions being ignored by all – as are inconvenient French riots – unreported, I am so sick of the lies – slight of hand,and the implication anyone voting out or lexit is racist….it’s shameful.

  • Paul

    DennisSkinner: “Half the Tory members opposite are crooks.”

    Speaker: “withdraw that remark.”

    Dennis Skinner: “OK, half the Tory members aren’t crooks.”

  • bevin

    The argument that house prices will decline by 18% ought to make exit very appealing to the hundreds of thousands who cannot dream of buying a house until prices begin to decline.
    Personally if I had twenty votes all of them would be for leaving the EU, because it is controlled by a nei-liberal oligarchy which it is beyond the power of any electorate to get rid of.
    It is not that democracy works in the UK-we know that it doesn’t- but that it can be reformed and made to work. That is not true of the EU as the casual dismissal of unfavourable referendums is a regular reminder.
    Then there is Greece a living demonstration, of what “Europe” means in its current political form.
    And then there is Ukraine where the EU is happy to wag its tail as the Imperial lapdog and throw money into the hands of Nazi death squads.
    Internationalism is a grand idea, so is supranationalism but first people have to take control of their own countries.

    • Ben Monad

      Internationalism is efficient only for commerce. Not that efficiency should be the goal of government, as free forms necessitate some bogging over time. What every country needs is decentralized government, wherein local representatives, more familiar with the culture, address them more quickly and to the point.

    • Herbie

      And then there’s the US military occupation of Europe.

      What people don’t seem to appreciate is that western Europe is being socially and economically destroyed rather than have it make its own independent decisions with regard to its relations with the East.

      That’s US policy.

      Scorched earth. Laying waste.

      And it’s already underway.

  • B Matthews

    utterly utterly agree with you here. If I vote I’m spoiling as I don’t want to be associated with any elite political liar.

  • Resident Dissident

    What I find embarrassing is how the Labour Leadership is not making the case for the Party’s policy of staying within the EU with any vigour whatsoever.

    • Doug Scorgie

      Jeremy Corbyn is making the case for Labours in-campaign without resorting to the unhinged rhetoric of the Tories so MSM are not interested.

  • clansaorsa

    You say “all Tories are liars”. No argument there, Craig, but do you seriously believe that applies to only the members of that one party? I used to interview their kind for a living and I never met one (from Prime Ministers down) whom I believed were sincere about anything except their own well-being.

    • Alcyone: End every Cliche

      Well said C. I think Craig fancies himself as a politician at some level. I also think he wears rose-tinted glasses sometime. But, I don’t mean to dampen his creativity and fair-mindedness.

  • Dave

    In Yes Minister the PM was told by Humphrey that “Britain only joined the Common Market/EU to wreck it”. Job done!

    Our longstanding but outdated policy over the years was to oppose a united Europe as a threat to our own independence. Previously this meant organising against Spain, France and then Germany from the outside and then following membership of Common Market/EU from the inside.

    Our wrecking policy of an ever expanding EU with unsuited countries joining the Euro and promotion of neo-con war in Arabia and confrontation with Russia has/is inflicting great harm and undermining the European ideal, which is why I doubt there will be reprisals if we Leave, but a sigh of relief and then wild celebration.

    The USA wants us in because we are their instrument within the EU, which is why De Gaulle said No, and he’s been proved right – and a UK leaving EU would be a more effective blow against the neo-cons than a Scotland leaving the UK.

    • nigel

      and a UK leaving EU would be a more effective blow against the neo-cons than a Scotland leaving the UK.”

      I believe Scotland leaving the UK will be a massive blow to the United States, in that the US will then be minus their nuclear arsenal presently located at Faslane.This will leave the US with a massive logistical problem inasmuch as the British “establishment” will never allow these subs to be parked in any English port , for a multitude of reasons. Where, then, will the US go to have similar facilities sited just offshore Europe?

  • Summerhead

    Don’t forget who is the head of the Stronger In campaign, Will Straw, the son of Craig’s nemesis, Jack straw. He got the job through his talent for er…being the son of Jack Straw.

    • Herbie

      Stronger In.

      Will Straw probably means the dope is stronger in Europe.

      Probably right.

      All that sun.

    • fwl

      I couldn’t believe that his name is on the leaflet sent to every house in the country. Straw minor’s blue in page is considerably better produced (even if rubbish) than the red out page opposite. Can’t the out campaign manage something as simple as a one page statement.

  • Alcyone: End every Cliche

    The apathy that is the ‘debate’ around Britain in the EU merely reflects the fact that the British economy is fucked as it is, either way.

    Shut down the war machine that is the euphemistically named Ministry of Defence (common sense would tell you it is the ‘Ministry of Offence’). Then divert those resources into creative and constructive investment that involves the British people up and down the land and see this country prosper. This country has forgotten how to put men and materials together to create and innovate.

    The politicians know nothing about business. In studying their PP&E’s, they know the least about the Economy and how it is essentially an aggregation of businesses. The word ‘Company’ has its roots in breaking bread together.

    In this 21C, Britain has made some very unfortunate and even more expensive choices–Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria. It’s time to stay at home and get down to work, get down to business, get down to the business of work. Instead of constantly being on the back foot of ‘managing’ unemployment and it’s associated financial issues. That immigration needs to be selective is as obvious as the day. That the UK needs to stop spending money on costly lethal toys and shooting from the hip where ever, and thereby encouraging the flow of immigrants is obvious as daylight.

    To build a New Economy a paradigm shift is fundamentally necessary. It ain’t gonna happen within the EU. Sterling means looking at the stars, not tinkering around in the gutter. Get the fuck out of the EU and get the fuck out of NATO. People: fuck the politicians and take your country back. Not for some obscure ‘idea’ of Nationalism, just for a collective quiet revolution of breaking bread together, but making the cake bigger in the first place. To go on arguing infinitely on how to carve the cake is daft, for God’s sake.

    I wonder if Craig has some equally romantic notions about the EU.

    • fwl

      I tend to agree with you on Brexit, although is not “shut down the war machine” a cliché. The “war machine” is apparently now supporting Brexit not In because it does not want to be part of a crap EU army and is content with NATO.

      If you have etymology on company / bread breaking then I would be interested to see it.

      I suspect we all have romantic or ingrained instinctive preferences on this referendum, which don’t always agree with our thoughts. We may all be voting for different illusions when we vote yes or no.

  • Simon

    Goodness Craig your indifference astonishes me. If the EU doesn’t seem responsible for Britain’s problems, perhaps it’s because Britain is currently in phase with (or in advance of) the neo-liberal agenda of the EU. Britain might change. The EU won’t. We’re looking, lets remember, at an unrepresentative organ with a disastrous CV, getting ready to tie itself into an even less representative organ, the TTIP, with it’s extra-national court. That sucking sound you here, it’s the last vestiges of popular sovereignty getting hoovered up. And only the righties seem to notice or care. I would have thought a liberal with a sense of history would have his veins popping.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      His indifference doesn’t astonish me. If the vote is to leave, that enhances the prospect of a second Scottish independence referendum. And as that will be based on the issue of Scotland’s remaining in the EU, he has to be simultaneously pro- and anti. Less indifference, perhaps, than the horns of a dilemma.

      • fred

        Someone who can switch so fast between condemning the hatred of someone for the football team they support to encouraging the hatred of someone for the party they support shouldn’t have too many problems.

        It must be very confusing for a young Scot, can’t hate a Celtic supporter but OK to hate a Tory, mustn’t hate the Irish but fine to hate the English it’s wrong to hate women unless they voted No.

      • Mark Golding

        Brexit would ‘completely change the dynamic of Scottish independence’ – Mr Blair (awaiting investigation into war crimes)

        the former Prime Minister predicted that the SNP’s demands for a second referendum would be impossible to ignore if Scottish voters are taken out of the EU against their will.

        We recall:

        1. The Lisbon Treaty: Much of the cynicism in the UK over the whole EU project derives from Mr Blair’s promise to hold an EU referendum on the EU Constitution, only (a French, Dutch and Irish ‘No’ later) to see it renamed the Lisbon Treaty and pushed through without one. The Lisbon Treaty took powers from national parliaments and gave them to the EU institutions, furthering alienation with the EU in the process.

        2. The Euro: Mr Blair was once in favour of the Euro, (and a referendum on the Euro). The eurocrisis has not only vindicated those who took the opposite stance but has led to the British electorate being rightly sceptical of those who make similar bold claims. Blair is gracious enough to admit the issue: “not being part of the single currency is not, at least in the short and medium term, going to imperil the supremacy of the City of London… but leaving Europe altogether, is quite another thing.”

        3. EU migration: Although all parties were (rightly) in favour of EU enlargement, it is undeniable that the large scale migration that followed (and the failure to predict or plan for it) has driven opposition to EU membership. It is worth remembering that it was Mr Blair’s government that decided not to take up the option of extending transitional controls, which could have mitigated the problem.

        4. The EU Budget: Mr Blair and Douglas Alexander in 2005 negotiated away a portion of the UK’s EU budget rebate, in a back loaded deal, that has led to steadily increasing budget contributions.

    • craig Post author

      aah, but I am a romantic internationalist forever chasing the goal of human perfectibility

      • Ba'al Zevul

        Let us know when you’re a nationalist again, Craig. I find that easier to understand…

      • Alcyone: End every Cliche

        Yes Craig, but ironically all the while we are ‘chasing a “goal” ‘, we are conflicted; in duality. So, the mischief carries on.

        Why do i need to ‘chase’ anything? Why can’t I live simply, as Einstein said: in Truth, Goodness and Beauty

        If I want to ‘change’, I have to start very, very close: within (‘me’).

        The Beatles – Within You Without You
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y__Zs3e6BdA

        “Try to realise it’s all within yourself
        No one else can make you change
        And to see you’re really only very small
        And life flows on within you and without you”

        Lyrics:
        http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/withinyouwithoutyou.html

        Good Luck! 🙂

        • Alcyone: Carry on Folks!

          Btw, that Beatles song has some 240,000 plays. Compare with Zara Larsson’s 240,000,000 plays plus another 260,000,000 plays on Spotify.

          We are doing just fine in the Lush Life on Earth!!!

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD4HCZe-tew (Brilliant lyrics (not).

          Carry on Folks! Life may be a sexually-transmitted disease, but it’s Beautiful.

      • Simon

        me too, but I think the subject today is resisting the big push to turn us all into India, a movement well under way in the US. Clinging to the notion of independent sovereign nations might be a good tactic for a few years.

  • Alcyone: End every Cliche

    Most politics today, is the for the sake of politics. And we are supposed to be a mature country? Perhaps too mature for our own good. Like a stale piece of mature cheese.

    The referendum debate is proof of that, if we ever needed it.

  • Conall Boyle

    I’ve been an arch-enthusiast for the Common Market (old name for the EU) since the 1970s, was out leafleting in the 1975 referendum.

    But this time I’m voting ‘Leave’, because I think the EU would be better off without England.

    • Loony

      Yeah the EU would be better off without the UK, and so the UK will be allowed to leave if it wishes. However the EU absolutely needs Greece and it will never be allowed to leave. If necessary the EU will administer Greece directly from Brussels – but whatever happens Greece will be shackled to the EU.

      Ask why this might be.

  • KingOfWelshNoir

    The whole thing has exposed our political leaders for the mountebanks they are. No one has behaved in a statesmanlike way, or given an inspirational or uplifting speech. It has all been absurd cheese-paring rhetoric and fear-mongering. Abject.

    • Alcyone: End every Cliche

      KOWN , don’t we have just ourselves to blame for our submission to be hoodwinked?

      The root of the problem is that we are sleepwalking through life; we are not truly interested?

    • Ba'al Zevul

      I don’t think it makes much difference which way we turn. The economy will continue to be run for the benefit of the speculators who handle our sockpuppet politicians. Nothing’s going to improve until they can pump up another bubble, and that will inevitably go phut later.

      Bottom line: we’re in the red. Why?
      Since 1998, the United Kingdom has been running consistent trade deficits mainly due to increase in demand of consumer goods, decline in manufacturing, appreciation of the GBP and deterioration in oil and gas production. In 2013, the biggest trade deficits were recorded with Germany, China, and the Netherlands. The biggest trade surpluses were recorded with United States, Ireland and United Arab Emirates.
      http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/balance-of-trade

      Note: decline in manufacturing = overreliance on the financial and service sector. Fine during a boom. Not fine during a financial catastrophe.
      Note: Leaving the EU would, according to the doom-mongers, result in devaluation of the GBP. Terrific. Just what we need in order to export, if we had something to export. Oh, and house prices would also fall. making it possible for someone who actually wants to live in a house to buy one.
      Note: Neither the US nor the UAE are in Europe. And our membership of the EU benefits Germany and the Netherlands at our direct expense. With independent control over tariffs, we could also close down Chinese imports (such as steel) dumped on the world market at below cost.

      It looks as if we’d be worse off in the short term, but a much livelier economy in the future, freed from the constraints of the EU. Unhappily, it would be in my personal interest to remain, and I’m still conflicted.

      • Alcyone: End every Cliche

        You’re on the right path. Sorry about the conflict–just another reflectionof the mirror to drop the ‘me’.

        Btw, I saw Zakir Hussain at the South Bank last week. Good in parts; didn’t care much for his composition played with the BBC Concert Orchestra–’twas a little too much of ‘look at me’. Therefore lacked harmony. Heard Niladri Kumar on the sitar for the first time. Nothing short of brilliant.

        Still think, wrt Zakir that his project Tabla Beat Science with Sultan Khan and Bill Laswell represents the pinnacle of his fusion sound:
        https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tabla+beat+science+devotional

        • Ba'al Zevul

          Funnily enough I was looking at a YouTube of Viliayat Khan and a much younger Zakir Hussain yesterday. In those days he must have been the perfect accompanist, and knew better than to steal Khan’s thunder. Very exciting raga.

          This guy’s definitely worth a listen. I guess the word is ‘witty’…and brilliant, of course.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yipyk0NaUgw

          • Phil the ex frog

            I like the distorted sound version. Two questions:

            1) Is it an hour and four minute drum solo?
            2) What’s the bloke on the left for?

          • Ba'al Zevul

            Not a drum solo in the Western sense, I think. Tabla qualifies as a solo instrument (under the right hands) in its own right. It plays rhythmic tunes. The playing technique isn’t anywhere as freeform as you might think. The speed and degree of precision are way ahead of anything percussive anywhere else. Clue, set your mental metronome to what in the West is the off beat. Chaudhuri’s pretty accessible to my Western ear, and plays Lucknow-style.

            I think the guy on the left is the pupil/student/apprentice, but Alcyone will probably correct me.

          • Phil the ex frog

            I used to have a mate of Kashmir heritage who was a tabla player. We fused it with punk blues before the barbican was even built. We did one gig in a Brixton pub at which no one could hear the tabla over the feedback guitar. His carpet was much admired though. In retrospect I like to think of it as a groundbreaking art experiment rather than a load of old crap.

            Anyway, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen the fella in this video.

          • Alcyone: Experience the sub-atomic Dimensions

            Hi Ba’al/Phil

            Yes, truly brilliant tabla–well worth keeping tabs to find the opportunity of seeing him live. I’d agree with Ba’al that the person on the left is almost definitely a student-disciple. I don’t much like that latter word for it has come to mean rather more a ‘follower’, rather than the original meaning of effectively a student in learning. Disciple today almost always implies a guru–another loaded/corrupted word. We are our own guru, that is all. And that doesn’t mean one can’t have a mere teacher or someone who provides guidance. Apologies for being verbose this early morning.

            Talking about Vilayat Khan, I also greatly appreciate his son Shujaat Hussain Khan–he has the voice of an angel. I have met him a couple of times, apart from listening to him, and he’s a really gentle soul. I just wish he would shed some weight and accordingly improve his health. The thing with some of these musicians, especially from India, is that they get so connected with the Universal energy through their music that they forget they exist in a human body (Nusrat Fateh Ali another example), that too with a hunter-gatherer model! Check him out here (he is also a beautiful sitarist):
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Ob912sSJs
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHFmJmIj984
            https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shujaat+hussain+khan+sitar+raga

            Enjoy!

    • Richard

      At the top levels that may be correct, but there are people who will never, or hardly ever, get airtime on the B.B.C.: Galoway, Farage himself, and those well-known racist xenophobes Hoey and Field. Their opinions and words are out there though and easily available, for those (both of them) who are interested.

  • Macky

    Best laugh so far was Cameron’s attempt to smear the Leave campaign by claiming that both Russia & ISIS (yes said in the same breath) are both wishing that the England leaves the EU !!

    • Jim

      ‘The England’…what a giveaway. Maybe you can give a link to the Saker or ‘Moon of Alabama’ for added credence Vlad, er, Macky.

      • Macky

        LOL ! No idea what you are fantasying about, but I notice that when others used “England” on this Thread, it didn’t cause you to go into a hyperventilating state of excitement, so I’m honoured !

        • Jim

          That took you a while ‘Macky’. The word is fantasising. Funny definition of ‘hyperventilating excitement’ you have.

          • Macky

            You are either yet another sock-puppet of the Habbu-Clown, or you might as well have been separated at birth, as you seem to be a mirror image in every appalling aspect.

        • Resident Dissident

          The fact you have no idea just proves Jim’s point I’m afraid. What is the going rate at Shushanka ul at the present?

    • Jim

      I imagine you’re getting it in the neck from your boss, and cursing the lack of an edit button!

  • Herbie

    Think of all that extra work MPs would have to do if we left the EU.

    Currently, the EU is responsible for about 80% of legislation, allowing our MPs and peers to swan around enjoying their expenses, when they’re not inventing trivial nonsense measures that make everyday life even more and more unbearable.

    We barely need a quarter of these wasters, but no, despite promises, we’ve more of them now than when we were running the largest empire the world has ever seen.

    There’s a clue there.

    No efficiency savings in the useless legislator department.

  • Anthony Murphy

    Totally agree with this…I am basically pro-EU as an overall ‘good’….the alternative is simply more subservience to the US. But the Remain campaign is horrible and stupid. The whole thing is a waste of time and money when we should be tackling more important issues.

  • nevermind

    If Labour would do a Rumpelstilzken in front of our eyes, splitting itself in half, you would hear no end of lamentations in the media, if the Tory’s are doing it, not a single fascist newspaper will report about it.
    I do not believe that Cameron was ever genuinely interested in staying in Europe, no effort from the start, wasting part of 6.8million in advertising and no control over local Tory’s who are sitting on their arse or merely going through the motions. This Leave vote has been given to Farrage on a silver plate and I do not think it was designed any other way.

    Military officers have said….blah blah blah… we need a job in future how dare is the EU thinking of its own military alliance…sabotaging NATO… Well, its long overdue, NATO should have disappeared up its own , new weapons shop window, backside in the mid 1990’s, instead it got all excited about the war on terror, got the American clap from hell.

    If this moment in history does not lead to electoral reform, after we have watched the culmination of bad decisions by bad politicians for over four decades, never right in there managing our interest, but sitting on the fence, doing the tail wagging to the US/IS cabal and wasting precious resources on wars which weren’t ours, wasted precious lifes in Iraq Afghanistan Libya and Now Syria. NATO is obsolete and led by a nose by the US like an impotent steer being walked to the slaughter.

    We could help design a new agenda in Europe, the time was never better, but instead we want out, we create more problems for the EU and we are running a campaign designed to look as iof we have an interest in the continent which we belong to.

    The continent we have traded with for over a thousand years, who we have quarrelled with and who’s nations fought with us on the same side, the continent which has given us rules and regulations, human rights legislation and workers rights, free unimpeded travel and much more, all of which the Tory’s want to destroy.
    I will not stop speaking up against this folly when I know that this country is full of Saxons, Celts and Vikings who have not come from a fracked out split society some 2000 miles away, but who have been manipulated and pushed about, a long trained masochist, sat in their fat, society who just can’t imagine what a fair vote looks like. that craves more of the same ill treatment by a complacent establishment as long as it gest tit bits thrown to it, fine words that is, at every election.
    And every time the safe seats have it. This vote is important, very likely the most important vote ever, and these idiots and their malignantly inclined broadcasters and right wing newspaper publishers, all playing up to the establishment and their money grabbing ways, are doing their best to run both campaigns into the ground, turn everyone off voting by being as obnoxious as possible.

    Both sides are the same, both want us out, but that would not be a referendum, would it, that would be a dictators choice of vote, so one side plays the Patzi, indeed both of them are doing their best to divert our attention away from it with lies and wishful thinking.

    Any space left in Scotland? or do I have to leave after having lived here for more than half of my life? because I WILL NOT LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT WANT OR RESPECT HUMAN RIGHTS!

    A country that walks into this trap blindfolded.

  • Geoffrey

    Looks like we are going to Remain,because if we leave there will be war,famine because the pound will fall and we will not be able to import food,we will be homeless because interest rates will rise to defend the pound and people will no longer be able to afford their mortgages,we will not be able to afford foreign holidays because of the weak pound and there will be gun toting border guards checking our papers whenever we want to go abroad. Financial markets will go into a tailspin. The City will lose all it’s business to the Germans and French. Foreign banks will leave London. Large multinationals will close their British factories. Our exports to Europe will have tariffs put on them by the rest of Europe leading leading to mass unemployment. The NHS will close down because there won’t be any foreign doctors,nurses or cleaners. Revolting British people and institutions would have to make decisions about Britain and it’s future.
    Mobile roaming charges in Europe would go up.
    Scotland would leave the UK.
    Vote Remain !

  • Geoffrey

    I forgot. Our two best foreign mates will President Putin and Baghdadi of ISIS.

  • giyane

    The UK is an extremely successful country. By not building houses it has cranked up the cost of having a roof over your head to all your spare money nearly all of your working life. One half of the country distribute stuff made from abroad, while the other half eat what the first staff earn.

    Having set up this aquarium in the corner of the sitting room for watching fish go round chasing eachothers’ tails It does make the politicians feel important to create and then pretend to solve external crises like Syria, Libya Ukraine and the EU referendum.

    The next thing will be Trident, which will be miniaturised and displayed in the corner of the tank next to the television. Anyone who saw Steve Bell’s cartoon of a rubberised naked Dave igniting a rocket in his bum before the referendbum campaign will not want to be reminded of the vision.

    • Alcyone: The Universe blesses Universality, but not the way of Organised 'Religions' ;-)

      You’re becoming easier to understand Guano. Are you still praying 5 times a day?

  • Alcyone: The Universe blesses Universality, but not the EU way

    Music-wise, and then there is this, screaming Universality: 2 Indians, 2 Americans,1 Brit American Indian, 1 Ethiopian

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2s0Ko9xt4

    Harmony in fusion doesn’t come better than this. Enough to delight the Gods.

    And then there is Tony rambling down in the pub…..

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