Manchester Explosion 67

Twitter gives an astonishing immediate insight into events in another city. Our thoughts are with those the police say are killed and injured in Manchester this evening. From eye witness reports and pictures posted on the internet, this is what I can tell so far.

There certainly was at least one large explosion, and this was consistent with a bomb. But a bomb was not the only possible explanation. however contrary to reports, the bombs does not appear to be inside the Manchester Arena.

I am somewhat handicapped as I do not know how to post short pieces of video from Facebook onto the blog. But the best evidence of the explosion so car is this video apparently from a nearby car park.

These two frames are a fraction of a second apart. It is much plainer on the video than on these stills, but in the second a huge flash of light has gone off behind the building. The area of rising ground or low structure immediately to the left of the building is more lit in the second frame, and the aurora of city light in the sky above the building is lighter and reaches further. The back of the building would be substantially illuminated. As I say, the flash is much more obvious in live action than in comparing the two frames.

A little less than a second after this flash, a major rumble is heard. This is a loud explosion. Given that from the gap between the light and the sound it is over half a mile away, it is really a big explosion.

UPDATE I now have a video I can post and you can plainly see the flash just before the sound reaches the camera. Just to the left of the building shows it best. This explosion was not confined inside.

But it is not within the Manchester Arena itself. There are plenty of photos and again videos from inside the arena.

The video from which this still is taken, for example, is apparently after the explosion because there is a certain amount of panic and screaming going on. But the video pans round the entire indoor arena and nowhere is there a sign of any damage, certainly not commensurate with the size of the explosion, and certainly nothing which would affect the integrity of the walls and ceiling sufficient to emit that great flash of light outside. Also an explosion of that size, if a bomb, would emit a very large amount of smoke, and there is very not enough smoke at all in this indoor area (there is a very little haze, but more consistent with concert pyrotechnics or dry ice). Finally, while there are the first signs of panic, an explosion of that size would have caused vastly more panic if it had not been some way distant. Most people are still holding their balloons.

There are many pictures of lobby areas too but none of these shows bomb damage or smoke either.

The dominant narrative now seems to be a nail bomb or bombs inside the arena. Nail bombs typically are not on the scale of the explosion caught outside. A nail bomb might be consistent with the lack of major damage inside the arena and lack of immediate generalised panic, but it is not consistent with the big bang and flash visible outside. It is of course not impossible there was one or more small nail bombs inside and a further bomb outside. But it is also possible the explosion was outside and the inside injuries due to panic and crush.

We should avoid jumping to conclusions on the cause, and if it is a bomb we should avoid jumping to conclusions on who planted it. There is terrible tragedy in Manchester tonight, the worse for affecting young people. But my trawl through social media also revealed a fantastic communal spirit, with ordinary people looking after each other, opening up their homes, running people around in their cars and helping reunite families. It is also excellent how many Manchester people are reacting against those trying to use this to promote racial or political agendas. I pray the number of casualties proves to be not as bad as first thought.

67 thoughts on “Manchester Explosion

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  • Radio Jammor

    Craig, having been to this venue, it is one of the larger arenas and has a foyer around it not unlike larger football stadia.

    The news is indicating that this explosion occurred away from the inner seated area but in a foyer/box office area which is where people – many children, given the artist at the venue – would have been exiting, although many would still have been inside at the time. It takes a long time to clear that place and the steps are quite steep to at least some of the exits.

    This all strongly suggests the south side of the venue which is immediately adjacent to Manchester Victoria station.

  • Clark

    I refuse to accept any more claims of terrorism until some demands and conditions are made, responsibility is claimed, and some method of verifying such claims is established.

    Terrorism is defined as violence against innocent people for political objectives. Without verifiable claims of responsibility in advance, with demands, conditions, and some identifiable command structure that can negotiate, any incident could be by any party and must be regarded as nothing but pointless violence.

    • Clark

      That doesn’t necessarily follow. The Tories under Cameron wanted to bomb Assad’s government; they only targeted ISIS as a second choice. So what will they say? We want ISIS to win so they’ll stop attacking Europe?

    • Radio Jammor

      I was just thinking earlier that the Tories will be searching for their “our Falklands” moment, as I follow a Francis Urquhart account on Twitter.

      Given the shit the Tories are in at the moment over their manifesto of chaos, the timing of this of is spectacular.

      But Jesus, this was essentially a kids’ concert.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Radio Jammor May 23, 2017 at 02:25
        ‘…But Jesus, this was essentially a kids’ concert.’.
        Yes, U>S> proxies and patsies often attack children; look at the William Muragh Oklahoma City bombing, or the Kuwaiti ‘Incubator Babies LIE’; helps to achieve their psychological objectives.

        The following account of Contra attacks on civilians shows that US proxies are instructed to attack civilians and children (the Gladio operatives were instructed the same, to attack random civilians); the quotes are from:
        ‘Nicaragua 1981-1990’ – ‘Destabilization in slow motion’
        (taken from William Blum’s book ‘Killing Hope’):
        ‘…The contras’ brutality earned them a wide notoriety. They regularly destroyed health centers, schools, agricultural cooperatives, and community centers-symbols of the Sandinistas’ social programs in rural areas. People caught in these assaults were often tortured and killed in the most gruesome ways. One example, reported by The Guardian of London, suffices. In the words of a survivor of a raid in Jinotega province, which borders on Honduras:
        “Rosa had her breasts cut off. Then they cut into her chest and took out her heart. The men had their arms broken, their testicles cut off, and their eyes poked out They were killed by slitting their throats and pulling the tongue out through the slit.”
        Americas Watch, the human-rights organization, concluded that “the contras systematically engage in violent abuses … so prevalent that these may be said to be their principal means of waging war.”…..’

        ‘…After many contra atrocity stories had been reported in the world press, it was disclosed in October 1984 that the CIA had prepared a manual of instruction for its clients which, amongst other things, encouraged the use of violence against civilians. In the wake of the furor in Congress caused by the expose, the State Department was obliged to publicly condemn the contras’ terrorist activities. Congressional intelligence committees were informed by the CIA, by present and former contra leaders, and by other witnesses that the contras indeed “raped, tortured and killed unarmed civilians, including children” and that “groups of civilians, including women and children, were burned, dismembered, blinded and beheaded”. These were the same rebels whom Ronald Reagan, with his strange mirror language, called “freedom fighters” and the “moral equal of our founding fathers”. (The rebels in El Salvador, in the president’s studied opinion, were “murderers and terrorists”.)
        The CIA manual, entitled Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare, gave advice on such niceties as political assassination, blackmailing ordinary citizens, mob violence, kidnapping, and blowing up public buildings. Upon entering a town, it said, “establish a public tribunal” where the guerrillas can “shame, ridicule and humiliate” Sandinistas and their sympathizers by “shouting slogans and jeers”. “If … it should be necessary … to fire on a citizen who was trying to leave the town,” guerrillas should explain that “he was an enemy of the people” who would have alerted the Sandinistas who would then “carry out acts of reprisals such as rapes, pillage, destruction, captures, etc.”….’

        ‘…The American ambassador to Costa Rica likened Nicaragua under the Sandinistas to an “infected piece of meat” that attracts “insects.” President Reagan called the country a “totalitarian dungeon”, and insisted that the people of Nicaragua were more oppressed than blacks in South Africa.
        Members of the Kissinger Commission on Central America indicated that Nicaragua under the Sandinistas was as bad or worse than Nicaragua under Somoza. Henry Kissinger believed it to be as bad as or worse than Nazi Germany. Reagan was in accord-he compared the plight of the contras to Britain’s stand against Germany in World War II.
        “Central America,” noted Wayne Smith, former head of the US Interests Section in Havana, “now exercises the same influence on American foreign policy as the full moon does on werewolves.
        So all-consuming, so unrelenting, was the hatred, that Kissinger demanded that the American ambassador to Nicaragua be removed simply because he reported that the Sandinista government was “performing fairly well in such areas as education”. And in the wake of the terrible devastation in Nicaragua wrought by Hurricane Joan in October 1988, the Reagan administration refused to send any aid nor to help private American organizations do so.
        So eager was the State Department to turn the Sandinistas into international pariahs, that it told the world, without any evidence, that Nicaragua was exporting drugs, that it was anti Semitic, that it was training Brazilian guerrillas. When the CIA was pressed about the alleged Sandinista drug connection, it backed down from the administration’s claim. 
        Secretary of State Alexander Haig referred to a photograph of blazing corpses and declared it an example of the “atrocious genocidal actions that are being taken by the Nicaraguan Government” against the Miskito Indians. We then learned that the photo was from 1978, Somoza’s time…..’

        Also, the CIA Manual had encouraged the use of a device they had created, whereby a bomb would be made, with one side being a concave piece of strong steel; the bomb was to be placed under the fuel tank of school and other buses. When it went off, the concave side of the bomb would be blown convex (due to the design), generating great heat in itself, and blown up through the fuel tank into the bus. This ensured anyone in the bus would be barbecued, if they didn’t die from the blast.

        And notice the ‘Moderate Opposition’ to these murderous thugs – just like Syria..

        And the murderous headchopping US proxies, ISIS, also delight in killing kids, as the roomful of kids they had previously captured from another area were shown dead from an alleged Assad CW attack, in reality obviously intentionally murdered by the ISIS thugs.
        I traveled around Nicaragua for three and a half months in 1984, in order to see for myself the situation there.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Angry cynic May 23, 2017 at 02:11
      Hmmm, cui bono? You’re right – ‘terrorist’ attacks do tend to bolster the ‘hang ’em and flog ’em’ brigade.
      And Ariana Grande, the ‘Star’ singer, was probably noi the ‘PTB’ flavour of the month:

      ‘…Ariana Grande had a “doughnut scandal” in July of 2015 after a security camera caught her licking doughnuts for sale on a counter at a shop called Wolfee Donuts while the clerk was out of the room. The camera then caught her saying to a friend in disgust, “I hate Americans. I hate America.” After a social media uproar, Grande issued a lengthy apology, saying “I am EXTREMELY proud to be an American… What I said in a private moment with my friend, who was buying the donuts, was taken out of context and I am sorry for not using more discretion with my choice of words. As an advocate for healthy eating, food is very important to me and I sometimes get upset by how freely we as Americans eat and consume things without giving any thought to the consequences that it has on our health and society as a whole……..”

    • Ishmael

      Only (if it is a terrorist attack) if people don’t connect the dots.

      If they did they would know why there is an increase in risk, and why.

      Lets face it the “hard on terror” line is just an exude for more meddling and making us all less safe. JC does offer hope in this regard. Seem like he doesn’t want to participate in it.

      If this is sorry, but it’s nothing compared to our state terrorism paid with eveyones taxes. And people are only human. Blowback.

      We will no doubt see how people will react. Myself i want this crazy government gone, because they are most certainly not innocent of creating this environment…

      Can’t you tell? They want it.

  • Brianfujisan


    Imagine if it had been inside, the panic alone would have killed a great many.

  • Ishmael

    TM. “We are working to establish the full details of what is being treated by the police as an (appalling) terrorist attack.”

    A lie.

    She is already emotionally weponising the incident. Nothing is known yet. It’s obviosley right to treat as a possible terrorist attack (dispassionately) as the police are. But it may not be, and it doesn’t become that till we know.

    She wants it to be?

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Ishmael May 23, 2017 at 02:36
      Or perhaps TM already knows precisely who is responsible….

  • Ross

    Champagne corks popping at CCHQ I suspect. May now gets to suspend the election campaign she never really started, Labour lose the momentum their manifesto has created, and Jong May gets to coast to election day with the media even more servile than usual.

    • giyane

      Earwig O, you are tuned into the right radio station.

      A couple of days ago the site troll predicted there would be no terrorist attack before the general election.
      But there again he claims that Israel welcomes all religions.

  • Brianfujisan

    Transport Police are saying it was within the foyer area of the stadium

    “Officers are at Manchester Arena following reports of an explosion within the foyer area of the stadium at 10.30pm this evening,” British Transport Police said in a statement. “Emergency services are at the scene and we are working to establish more information regarding the explosion and will provide further updates as soon as possible.”

    My Daughter Sent me a Screen grab of Sky news Tweet saying Suicide Bomber suspected of Manchester explosion, according to two U.S officials Quoted on Reuters

    How would u.s officials know all this so quickly

    • Ishmael

      “How would u.s officials know all this so quickly”

      Does say suspected. And that’s a lot of people to be a placed device. Not so far fetched unless I’m missing something.

      • Brianfujisan

        Surely it would have to have been more than one Suicide bomber though

        have to wait on more details.

        • Ishmael

          Yea, i guess wait.

          But hypathtically depends how much stuff you can strap to yourself. & Crowded spot? Doesn’t bare thinking about, glad I’m not quite awake.

          But I can’t help thinking i blame the government. To busy spying on the rest of us.


          You know they want it, they are xxxxxx xxxx puppies.

        • giyane

          Yes Brian, it might have been the work of extra-terrestrial jinns working under the satanic command of the Amir of fuck-all and the President of fuck-everybody in Saudi Arabia last week.
          This MI6 bombing is so predictable. The youth are going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn so the command comes down from No. 10 “How dare they?. Blow them up and teach them a lesson.”

          • Ishmael

            Can’t work out what your trying to say there. Whats sarcasm etc.

            But I’m getting the increasing feeling the government and police are not working in our interests (if they were Tony Blair would be in jail or something, along with a few others) And i’d much rather a independent team was investigating this.

            “Everyone clear out of the area”. And let us mop up….. I don’t know, but I don’t trust anymore.

            No justice, no peace.

    • Sharp Ears

      True Brian. The caption quoting US officials went up very early on the news channels. YCNMIU.

        • Pyewacket

          An article in the Independent is already making an association with the 7/7 bombing…..”when four British Muslims killed 52 people in the worst terrorist atrocity to occur in Britain” or words to that effect. Btw, if going by body count, surely the worst would be the explosion over Lockerbie.

        • Pictorignotus

          Piers Morgan has already linked this with JC and the IRA on live TV this morning.

          • Paul Barbara

            @ Pictorignotus May 23, 2017 at 07:57
            Where was Jeremy Corbyn at the time? Does he (or his sidekick McDonnell) have an alibi?
            I could have sworn I saw them ‘creeping round the corner’ in the short video clip.

  • Ishmael

    I guarantee If TM and the Torys get in they will make this sort of thing FAR worse.

    They clearly have the worst instincts on the world. In fact if i wanted to harm the UK and was a terrorist, Who better than a reactionary authoritarian.

  • Ishmael

    “The Manchester terrorist attack was directed at children. It’s going to be a very big shock for the UK.” NF

    Nigel knows it all it seems.

    What an evil man. Doesn’t he have enough blood on his hands with Joe? He fed this blind nationalist fever, ignoring our destroying most of the middle east.

    Cos were “british” and we don’t do stuff like that….Sick sick man.

  • Ishmael

    Sorry but iv had enough.

    Why don’t people see? let the government kill countless people and it’s going to come back. This is the peoples fault. The people who are asleep even when awake. And yes it will be a shock them Nigel But not me.

    And IF this is an attack not carried out by one of your nationalist mates (and let’s face it you are all the same really, no matter what country) it’s still nothing to do with islam, or immigration.

    Grrr, Seeing this parasite capitalise on this. He LOVES it. Where would he be without peoples ignorance. It’s not like we just killed a few people, we helped kill MILLIONS. Destroyed whole counties.

    BRITAIN IS FINISHED. It was destroyed by Tony blair and America years ago. And if they kill me so be it, it won’t be just but i’ll understand. I don’t want your bloody “protection”. Because it certainly will not make anything better.

    Someone see that vile man reads this.

    • Ishmael

      My advice to anyone concerned, its likely going to get worse because people in this country are WILFULLY ignorant and stupid. Real scoundrels hiding behind the flag. Leave if you can.

      The blood of those people doesn’t run down palace walls. It runs down tv sets distracting with meaningless stuff people know is bollox. Celebrity etc.

      Once we had John Lennon saying give peace a change now we have “dangerous woman”. Its what you ask for so goodbye and don’t expect justice when you don’t care about morality. Just ££££

  • John Spencer-Davis

    I think it is utterly tragic that an incident like this can occur, and that the following possibilities occur so readily to people’s minds:

    – It is a false flag initiated by the UK government;
    – It is highly conveniently timed as the government appears to be doing badly in the election;
    – It will immediately be exploited for political purposes;

    And so on.

    I blame no-one for that but successive governments, really beginning with Tony Blair, which have assumed that they can essentially say what they like to Parliament and to the general public whether it is true or false; selling us all a “pack of lies” as George Galloway puts it, for their own political advantage. People simply do not believe a word the UK government says any more, and I am afraid that is something that they have asked for, loud and clear.

    I have no idea what this incident was about. Nor, apparently, has anyone else at the moment. We don’t even know if it was purposeful or not. All we know is that at least nineteen people are dead and fifty injured, more of whom will probably die. The anguish of these people and their families is enough for me, at the moment. Even the truth of that will undoubtedly be questioned, and, again, I place the blame for that squarely at the door of people who are reckless of the truth of what they say to the public, viewing public opinion as an instrument for their own political advantage.

    Clark could not be more right. We should suspend judgement until there is clear and unequivocal evidence that this tragedy was politically motivated and for what purpose – we know nothing of the sort at the moment.

    My thoughts are with the dead and injured and their families. J

  • Kerch'ee Kerch'ee Coup

    At a time when emotions are running high, I thought back to the bombing of the Rex Cinema in Abadan when almost 500 died, shortly before the fall of the Shah.At first this was classed among other cinema bombings by the Muslim oppostion groups, but these were largely in closed cinemas or those showing ‘porno’ films, so the general opinion prevailed that this was an attempt by Savak to discredit Khomeni &co.(‘the Shah’s kebab house’).
    Michael Axworthy, sometime head of Iran’ desk at the FCO, argues in his Modern History of Iran that it was in fact a double-bluff to blame Savak and the Shah.While keeping an open mind on this, I would be interested to learn at some stage whether you Craig , came into contact with Michael or formed an impression one way or another.

  • Resident Dissident

    “It is also excellent how many Manchester people are reacting against those trying to use this to promote racial or political agendas.”

    Clearly many commenters chose to ignore this comment. As they say scum always rises to the top.

  • Jim Butler-Daulby

    I’m Mancunian and am a bit anxious about who’s been killed and injured. But I’m also raging! Someone on my FB feed predicted a major “terrorist” attack more than a week ago! I thought it was a bit ‘tin-foil’ stuff, so breezed past it. But whoever it was called it “May’s Falklands moment”! Suddenly election campaigning has halted and our “strong and stable leader” has called a meeting of COBRA. How is this going to play with the “peace loving, friend of terrorists, Corbyn” narrative?

  • Alex

    It’s a part of the cheoreography for the next act of war. Trump selling arms to the Saudis in exchange for a quid pro quo war against Iran. Receiving his orders from Tel Aviv, Brits enraged, May reelection, idiot Americans distracted and Trump given an easier ride from the psychos that run that country. Cu bono indeed.

  • adrian

    Alas, I am completely unable to see the point being made here. Am I supposed to understand there is some kind of conspiracy here? If you have an hypothesis, what is it?

    • Alex

      No hypothesising from me no. My deep suspicion is that Trump sold weapons to the Saudis with strings attached, that the sleazy buffoon colludes with Israel as far as Iran and other war like intentions are concerned. There are some horrible bastards that want to engineer and prolong carnage. Is a false flag in Manchester possible? How would I know? Is it conceivable? Yes it is. Does it assist Mays campaign? Probably it does yes.

  • John Spencer-Davis

    “We should avoid jumping to conclusions on the cause, and if it is a bomb we should avoid jumping to conclusions on who planted it.” (Craig Murray)

    I recommend that commenters here take that to heart. J

  • mog

    Yesterday I read that the only remaining campaign strategy left for the Tories was to repeatedly smear Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser.
    In the night I had a dream that I was asking Aaron Bastani his thoughts about the ‘strategy of tension’ and the Gladio attacks of the 70s. He just walked away.
    This morning I read that the chief constablle of Manchester Police confirms that they are investigating a suicide bombing.

  • Dave

    The Jo Cox event didn’t stop Leave winning the referendum and the latest event will not necessarily mean a victory for May. But this latest event involving children shows the deep state is getting desperate and ironically because of his involvement in the Irish conflict Corbyn must suspect the truth about dirty tricks but as yet it seems he feels he has to go along with it and perhaps because he thinks the public will prefer a healer to the iron fist!

    • Jiusito

      I have to say I think Jo Cox’s murder has helped the Leave campaign enormously. MPs are now terrified of being attacked – certainly my MP is: he calls the police when even a handful of middle-aged people demonstrate outside his office – but you can bet they anticipate violence only from the Leavers. One MP has even predicted “civil war” if Brexit does not go ahead. That has been a major factor, I think, in why a marginal vote in an advisory referendum has managed to overwhelm all intelligent opposition.

      • Dave

        Your formulation, true or not, is about the post Brexit situation. But the Jo Cox event was to damage Leave, hence why the patsy was Nazi rather than Muslim!

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Dave May 23, 2017 at 08:15
      Make you right there. Even if Corbyn strongly suspects ‘Dirty Tricks’, he would be torn apart by the govt. and MSM if he so much as hinted at it.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    One of mine also went. However, this simply addressed the question of playing amateur detective, raised by Habba IMO validly.
    Craig never used to be this thinskinned.

  • Michael McNulty

    Timing is everything. This came on the evening things turned bad for the Tories, on the very day Theresa May turned.

  • nevermind

    yesterday Mrs. May had a bad day and I’ll bet by the end of it she wanted it all to go away. Today all her faux passes disappeared from the headlines and terror took over.
    This attack was done by a professional. This person knew that a suicide bomb or bomb would not do enough damage in the middle of a crowd of people and security was too tight for him to risk being stopped, so he waited or came into the foyer when the teenagers were dispersing, when more distance between bodies ensured that he would kill/hurt as many people as possible.

    We can expect that this person was trained and very likely known to the police and or security services. I would not want to guess too much but it could have been a returning soldiers from Syria, who was registered, some time might have gone by after the person returned and all was quiet, well, in saying that, being quiet means that someone would be listening, something we do not know yet.
    What is somewhat surprising is that US news agencies were talking of a suicide bomber long before we did, how come?
    Why young teenagers? was this planned attack to stop people attending concerts and festivals? The last two days saw a lot of rappers and grime stars voicing their support for Corbyn, was this designed to turn them on or off voting?

    lets wait a couple of days and see what other footage emerges from this attack, that it occurred on the anniversary of Lee Rigby’s attack is not evidence enough, imho.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Why young teenagers? was this planned attack to stop people attending concerts and festivals? The last two days saw a lot of rappers and grime stars voicing their support for Corbyn, was this designed to turn them on or off voting?

      More likely it was a soft target with feasible access, and there was no more to it than that. The intention is (a) to spread fear and (b) to enhance divisions in society. But the punter blowing himself up in the process only thinks he is a holy warrior in a holy war, if he thinks at all. But it’s possible a point was being made about indiscriminate Western bombing. Doesn’t get ISIL the moral high ground though, does it?

      Encouraging communities-within- the-community does have risks.. Even among our nice native Britons there are some nasty ones. Powell had a point..

      “As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood”

      Read this quickly, as it will probably get deleted.

  • Paul Barbara

    ‘BREAKING: ISIS takes responsibility for Manchester suicide attack that killed 30’:

    ‘DAMASCUS, SYRIA (3:10 P.M.) – Moments ago, ISIS claimed full responsibility for last night’s events at the Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, claiming the terror attack to have killed 30 people and injured an additional 70 civilians.

    Amaq Agency said improvised explosives were hidden across the area, causing heavy casualties on people trying to escape the concert. A suicide bomber was also among the crowd.’

    But it doesn’t mean they did it! As US proxies, they could well have all the details.

  • Dave

    If IS claim responsibility its evidence its a false flag because IS is a ‘coalition of the willing’ franchise.

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