Well-placed FCO sources tell me it remains the case that senior civil servants in both the FCO and Home Office remain very sceptical of Russian guilt in the Skripal case. It remains the case that Porton Down scientists have identified the chemical as a “novichok-style” nerve agent but still cannot tie its production to Russia – there are many other possibilities. The effort to identify the actual perpetrator is making no headway, with the police having eliminated by alibi the Russian air passenger on the same flight as Julia Skripal identified as suspicious by MI5 purely on grounds of the brevity of their stay.
That senior civil servants do not regard Russian responsibility as a fact is graphically revealed in this minute from head of the civil service, Sir Jeremy Heywood, sent to officials following the attack on Syria. Note the very careful use of language:
Their work was instrumental in ensuring widespread international support for the Government’s position on Russian responsibility for the Salisbury attack
This is very deliberate use of language by Sir Jeremy. Exactly as I explained with the phrase “of a type developed by Russia” about the nerve agent, you have to parse extremely carefully what is written by the senior civil service. They do not write extra phrases for no reason.
Sir Jeremy could have simply written of Russian responsibility as a fact, but he did not. His reference to “the government’s position on Russian responsibility” is very deliberate and an acknowledgement that other positions are possible. He deliberately refrains from asserting Russian responsibility as a fact. This is no accident and is tailored to the known views of responsible civil servants in the relevant departments, to whom he is writing.
This in no way detracts from the fact that Sir Jeremy takes it as read that it is the duty of civil servants to follow “the Government’s position”. But it is an acknowledgement that they do not have privately to believe it.
Allied missile strikes on Syria – a message from the Head of the Civil Service
In the early hours of 14 April, the armed forces of the United Kingdom, the United States and France launched a series of co-ordinated strikes on sites in Syria linked with the production and storage of chemical weapons. This was in response to the use of prohibited chemical weapons by the Syrian regime against the civilian population of Douma, whose horrific consequences were widely reported.
I want to thank civil servants in a number of departments, but especially in the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, the Ministry of Defence, Department for International Development, Department for Health and Social Care (and Public Health England), Department for Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs, and the Cabinet Office, for their work after the attack on Douma and throughout the allied operation. This response was designed to degrade the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons capability and as a deterrent to their future use.
Coming after the nerve agent attack in Salisbury just over a month ago, I also want to take this opportunity to renew my gratitude to the hundreds of public servants – at home and abroad – involved in the response to that attack and the ongoing investigation. Their work was instrumental in ensuring widespread international support for the Government’s position on Russian responsibility for the Salisbury attack and the participation of many nations in the diplomatic sanctions that followed.
We could wish it was in different circumstances. However, the response to the Salisbury incident and the chemical attack on Douma showed the public service at its best: collaborative, professional and quick to act in the national interest, even under the greatest pressure.
Jeremy Heywood
Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Civil Service
Thanks Craig, and your posts are always an inspiration of common sense. I just discovered theblogmire dot com for those interested in other well reasoned discourse. Many questions and so few answers:)
Anyone actually seen anyone involved in the devilish deed ? . Apparently 3 people were involved and all were hospitalised , I know it’s a silly question but where are they , we are still being shown the suspected site or sites of the deed so it would be a great promotion for the NHS and the professionalism of the medical staff, who despite the life threatening toxic substance being present they managed to save them, I would have thought that would be right up the English health services minister Mr Hunt street he would be basking in the deserved adulation , so let’s see them Mr Hunt have a word with your boss Mrs Mayhem come on .
I still maintain the view that there was no ‘crime’ in Salisbury and that there was no ‘attack using chemical weapons’ in Douma. This is all theatre for public consumption. Judging by the forensic nature of this blog they (Govt and deep state) have certainly kept us ‘occupied’ There can be no alternative view to my contention that either the Skirpals are part of the plot or they have been abducted by the British state. If the former all the analysis in the world will not turn up any eveidence. If the later then the Britsh state is guilty of a crime. We have absolutely no evidence about the Skirpals at all – they appear to have ‘disappeared’ Russiais therefore correct to keep on asking questions about their welfare, whereabouts and the nature of their time in Britain.
However, what is not being talked about? What has happened to the deightful brexit negotiations? hat is truly happening in OUR health service? What is happening about OUR safety and security re issues such as OUR date protection, the surveillance of the British population byt the state and its allies? UK Column today are talking about the use of former IDF staff in the setting up of Israeli monitoring of the British population without any debate in parliament or the media. What is another state doing at the heart of British governance?
Watch today’s UK Column this feature is about halway through. This is sinister. Given that many think and feel this government are acting in a treasonous manner this whole Skirpal/chem weapons scam is concerning. There is no doubt subterfuge afoot and its exact nature is unknown by the population – this is black ops in action. Look again at the general trend ( big picture)for most new legislation hardly being debated in the HoC – the miltary being weakened, the role of the Anglo-French accord, the removing of freedom of speech, the compliance of the mainstream media, PESCOE and all the efforts to deny the setting up of a united EU military by the European Commission – this is happening as we speak and its cohorts are very proud of their efforts (Mogerini et al for whom nobody has voted) . We know the EU is corrupt, we know about the resurrection of NATO, we know about the arrogance and the aggression of the West (USA/UK/France/EU/NATO/Israel), nobody talks about the abuse and violence in Yemen (British sponsored terror) – exactly what are the tories up to? A parliamentary debate yesterday about anti-semitism which provided the governement full critical flow against Corbyn and the labour party – tories are never racist or anti-semitic – there’s just too much to highlight – but it is all leading toward the development of a dictatorship/ fascist state here in Britain. OUR rights are being removed, dissent is being obliterated – what is going on?
May talks of the safety of the nation whilst at the same time undermining it. She acts illegally against other sovereign nations and that, dear Theresa is being ‘normalised’ by the state. She is taking powers unto herself that she, in a democracy, doesn’t have the right to – nothing happens to the criminal class – they just reinvent themselves and carry on. Maybe our focus should be on the bigger picture and, not necessarily on the exact nature of chemicals that are causing the ‘problem’ currently. May has acted against the UN and acts illegally. She talks often ( all the time) about the international order of things, the rules based order and so on but NEVER has said anything relating to international LAW – the law is being circumvented and rewritten by her as we speak. This is nothing like democracy yet where is the opposition both politically and across the country? This seems a far more important concern to me than the precise nature of novichok – as a country there is little debate about this – we go from one terror assault to another and that is being ‘normalised’ by this government – it is not in OUR national interest!
I like your post which articulated what s lot of us think. This style of distractions is of course carefully orchestrated to take account of all fronts and to neutralise Corbyn.
I agree with you that whatever the silly discussion about what the true nature of the agent allegedly used in Salisbury is totally irrelevant as we now know for sure that it could not have been this deadly and military grade since it killed nobody. Unlike real crime when there are so many leaks, or even non crimes as when the police kindly leaked the raid on Sir Cliff Richard’s House to the BBC, there are no leaks here, the press is protecting the government from being asked relevant question.
Similarly any truth about the war in Syria has been hidden by allegations of use of chemical weapons. This allowed our government to continue to subsidise the rebels under the guise of the White Helmets. There is really no holistic discussion about Syria. There has never been any viable alternative to the current SG but despite that, the West’s attitude is destroy first then think of an alternative later, as in Iraq when they bunched up with some self centred lying crooks to destroy the country.
And Corbyn? He is now fighting on three fronts. The now continuing row has been started from a Facebook comment of 2012. Why has anybody waited so long given that this whole subject has been raised several tines before? Why has the government not pursued the fact that an Israeli agent, exposed by Aljazeera, has not led to a widespread reappraisal of proven foreign interference in U.K. politics instead of pursuing false stories about Russia meddling with the EU referendum? Like you I could go on and on.
I got as far as this sentence:-
“There can be no alternative view to my contention that either the Skirpals are part of the plot or they have been abducted by the British state.” I stopped there as this is clearly rubbish.
I have an alternative:
The Skirpals were atatcked with a nerve agent, are not part of any plot, and have not been abducted by the British State.
Sorry, your conspiracy theory does not fit the known facts.
1. The Skripals are not dead. That is incompatible with the claims of novichok poisoning.
2. The police investigation has been subject to a complete media blackout. This is unprecedented. There are ALWAYS police press conferences calling for witnesses, issuing photofits of people they want to trace, telling us the victims’ story.
3. Not one person in Salisbury has put photos on social media of the unusual activity in Salisbury. Not one peripheral player has been interviewed in the press. No neighbours have been pestered for their stories. There has been no “DS Bailey: my nerve agent hell” story.
4. Yulia Skripal was the most famous patient in the country. Imagine that scenario for any other patient. Now try to imagine, just for one second, that there wasn’t a scrum of media photographers hanging round trying to get a shot of her leaving hospital. But no. Nothing.
Never in the history of this country has a high profile crime investigation unfolded with absolute 100% silence across all these issues. It simply could not happen if the story we have been told was true.
Spaull – you make some very good points.
Roy, if they had been attacked with a nerve agent, they would be dead. Fact. They have not been seen since, are incommunicado and not able to contact relatives or the consulate. They are not in hospital by the looks of things. So, where are they?
Good question. Are they still alive after being apparently hit by a deadly nerve agent? If so, where are they? And if so, why can’t the Russian Embassy and their relatives visit them? Also, why were the guinea pigs and cats left in the house after a detective–reportedly within a day of the “disaster”–“checked” the house? How did he miss the pets? A guinea pig pen is not small. Several days (or possibly weeks) later these animals died of dehydration or got put down and immediately incinerated by the local police. Really? Would the local police really put down animals and get rid of bodies in a case where the bodies might (but probably don’t) involve a nerve or chemical agent? What a load of bullcrap.
Roy, you got as far as “they have been abducted by the British state” and suffered the instantaneous effects of what is known as ‘cognitive dissonance’.
The word “abducted” carries extremely negative connotations (abduction is a crime, after all), which is why it is sometimes, under certain special circumstances (think ‘national security’) euphemistically referred to as “put into protective custody”, an anodyne phrase unlikely to cause any great emotional reaction.
To dismiss entirely the possiblity that Mr Skripal, a former MI6 double agent (in other words, a spy) could be “part of any plot” is rather naive, given most people understand that ‘plotting’ (or being employed in the attempted execution of various plots) is part of the job description for all spies the world over.
Spaul’s reply to your comment is an excellent example of ‘critical thinking’ – an analysis of the facts using simple deductive reasoning (or what used to be known as plain common sense).
Without the ability to think critically, it is impossible even to begin to determine what is ‘fake’ and what is not.
Jazza’s post was perfectly sensible. Either the Skripals were willing actors in a subterfuge or they were genuine victims of an attack.
But I take it you are happy with “it is highly likely that the Russian Federation is responsible and that there is no plausible alternative explanation”.
Strangely enough, there are many plausible alternative explanations.
No one was affected by a ‘nerve agent’?
‘ . . . he began his letter to the Times . . . with;“may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury” ‘
“ The Times published a letter from Stephen Davies (Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust) on the 16th March. ‘Sir, further to your report (‘Poison Exposure Leaves Nearly 40 needing Treatment’), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning. Several people have attended the emergency department concerned that they may have been exposed. None has had symptoms of poisoning and none has needed treatment. Any blood tests performed have shown no abnormality. No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved.’ ”
BBC Breaking news.”The substance used to poison a former Russian agent was a highly purified form of Novichok says the chemical watchdog The OPCW.”
Nothing has changed.
Operation Julie the police operation UK police investigation into the production of LSD by two drug rings during the mid-1970s.
Well the analysis of the LSD at Harwell showed it was 99.9% pure. At Bristol Crown Court
the jury were told this substance was so dangerous that it blows peoples heads. They the jury were shown photo’s of headless torsos which was evidence for the prosecution. They were sentenced to ten years.
The chemistry lab was situated in a Welsh cottage.
Shouldn’t any comment here be “It’s just the BBC”…? What I mean is — I thought it, said BBC, had lost all credibility long time ago.
“This was in response to the use of prohibited chemical weapons by the Syrian regime against the civilian population of Douma, whose horrific consequences were widely reported.”
The statement “whose horrific consequences were widely reported” confirms what you say about the carefully worded, Similarly I am trying to establish whether the OPCW actually met the Skripals to take blood samples or whether these were “collected” by them. Although a semantic argument it is important because unless we learn the truth on this the Skripals could be vanished as easily as they vanished Dr David Kelly. Somebody needs to speak to them. If the OPCW doctors did then we should know of it. Of course there are a lot of things we should know and don’t.
John
I agree with you the OPCW statement is vague. I have commented on this and other aspects of the report before. See under 3 and 4.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/some-dead-children-count-more-than-others/comment-page-1/#comments
You will have to scroll towards the bottom of the page
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/some-dead-children-count-more-than-others/comment-page-1/#comments
Direct link to SA’s comment:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/some-dead-children-count-more-than-others/comment-page-1/#comment-736710
@SA: To link to your (or anyone else’s) comment on this blog, you need to copy the link in the timestamp beneath the poster’s username.
John, as Porton Down is an OPCW accredited lab, is it possible that any samples taken by Porton Down would be classed as ‘taken by the OPCW’?
Pat, I think you’ve got something there. I do think there are serious issues about the chain of custody but of course, will be unable to prove anything
Good point pat.
Interestingly, the word “Salisbury” produces the anagram “busy liars”…
Cleverly spotted. @tonykevin.
Bravo!
Dear friends, please read: https://blackagendareport.com/white-lies-and-black-disbelief-fading-empire
And also please read this: https://www.blackagendareport.com/russiagate-democrats-give-giant-middle-finger-climate-justice
I make no apology for describing the “anti-semitism” attack currently being directed against Mr. Corbyn as the most hysterical, mendacious and malevolent political campaign since the disgraceful gay-bashing assault on Peter Tatchell at the Bermondsey by-election in 1983.
I apologise for posting this off-topic – I have just been banned for a week from assigning any posts or comments on pages other than my own. Obviously upset Mr. Fuckerberg and one of his cronies.
Walter Did you pick up on this story?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/10/israeli-labor-leader-cuts-ties-jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The leader of the Israeli Labour Party is breaking contact with Corbyn over antisemitism and one of the reasons he gives is …
“In the letter, Gabbay said Corbyn had expressed “very public hatred of the policies of the government of the state of Israel, many of which regard the security of our citizens and actions of our soldiers – policies where the opposition and coalition in Israel are aligned”
Which says to me that it is now considered antisemitic to criticise the Israeli Governments brutal treatment of the Palestinians. I do hope my interpretation is incorrect as that turns a lot of good people who are opposed to racism in all its forms into antisemites.
Apologies to all for OT
PS Mr Fuckerberg thing is inappropriate and the sort of thing that breeds the antisemitism argument. Hadn’t spotted that first time
@Crackerjack. Why? I cannot stand Zuckerberg and the assault on privacy that he has turned into a goldmine for himself and his cronies at Facebook. He has developed a tool that the Stasi would have drooled over and I have no doubt that the Deep State is enamoured with his creation. To say that calling him Fuckerberg ‘breeds the antisemitism argument’ would be to suggest that he should be immune from any ridicule and criticism presumably because he is Jewish. Surely that is as ‘racist’ as it gets. Personally I would despise Zuckerberg whether he were Amish, Catholic or Zoroastrian. In the former case, I would suggest that such an attitude would not lead to allegations that I was guilty of breeding anti-Amish prejudice.
Sublime. Well said.
I*el is what it accuses others of.
Palestinians are semites.
I*el hates Palestinians, and kills them wantonly, because they are Palestinians.
Therefore I*el is anti-semitic. Q.E.D.
Walter, I whole heartedly agree with you.
Note to the Met (or related organisation) as I’m sure you are watching
I think it fair to say that we British are one of the most spied upon peoples in the world so I do hope you have some better leads than a random Russian airline passenger that you have now ruled out.
If the perpetrators snuck up to the Skripal home in the middle of the night and painted the door handle with poison then surely at that time of night there would be very few cars or people trundling about a quiet Salisbury estate. Somewhere a CCTV (public or private) would have spotted this activity
If the perpetrators sprayed them in the arcade on the way to the bench or indeed atvthe bench then many more CCTV’s would have picked this activity
No doubt you are very busy analysing this footage and I commend your diligence as its been what? 6 weeks now. You must know the footage backwards by now. I hope to hear that you have caught the perpetrators in the near future.
If not then I must deduce that Salisbury is the least spied upon town in the UK and will consider moving there in the comforting knowledge that I will regained some long lost Civil Liberties.
Dashcam from Salisbury on March 2nd:
The snow was really bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-1ZwkS2Azs
Conditions still bad on the 3rd judging by this from outside Salisbury:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PoEKvQZahg
No wonder Sergei asked Ross Cassidy to pick Yulia up from Heathrow in his 4×4.
Not the sort of weather that’s conducive to the effective deployment of nerve agent on a doorhandle, I would have thought.
I hear you BG
He seems to accept the Syrian Government’s use of chemical weapons against civilians in Douma as a given, however. Surely a rebel sourced #FalseFlag is more likely.
Alleged gas attack in Douma – still alleged I don’t believe there was one.
US stand-up comic Jimmy Dore offers up some good commentary and analysis of the mainstream media’s blatant attempt to ignore, sidetrack or obfuscate the points raised by the occasional guest commentator who actually makes it on air and offers up some facts that don’t fit well with the “authorised” mainstream media/government explanation for the war in Syria.
See for example this Youtube video Bombshell: Professor Stuns MSNBC Panel On Syria
jimmy dore is superb. pulls no punches whatsoever.
The ‘Saker’ is a either a self-deluded fool or an uncritical pedler of tall tales. A smidgin of fact is turned into another link in the long conspiracy from the time of the Schism to malign and weaken Great Mother Russia. I read far out sites as they are quite often sources of information that are hard to obtain elsewhere. He was quite good early on the relationship of the Orthodox with the Mualims but it had been downhill ever since. Though I suppose some of the other contributors have useful things to say.
Errrm I have, so far, not heard one, so called ‘journalist’, ask the question, “can you give any details as to the continuing investigation of attempted murder of the Skripals in Salisbury.”. Why was a Detective Seargeant on the scene so immediately. Was he charged with a continuing role of Skripal shadowing ? What actions did he take.? What were the results of his immediatel actions? Perhaps the Met police, under Cressida Dick, who took charge from the Hants Police……have you arraigned, or arrested, detained for questioning, or perhaps subjects who are “helping you with enquiries”? Let alone an answer. This is a continuing attempted murder enquiry by the Met Police…..surely. No “journalists” have managed to engage with the propaganda machine or collar the Chief Constable for any information about persons of interest, suspects, witnesses, passers by. Etc. Other than a blonde woman and accompanying man still untraceable. Despite CCTV coverage.
We are in the the UK, the most surveilled country in the world, yet still no results on this attempted murder from the Metropolitan Police force, MI5, MI6, GCHQ, the USA NSA…….our best pals, with “assets” in Yorkshire and elsewhere around our sceptered isle….who can read your txts and record your calls on mobile phones unless of course you happen to be a bearded, elderly chap, with not very good grasp of English, or English law and pimps under age white skinned girls, well, under aged…..in the UK….but not in the ”stahns”,for your fee paying bearded, elderly mates to rape, fuck and bugger with attitude…..in the modern parlance.
Oh yes, sorry I forgot for a moment, “They were asking for it”, according to one of our glorious members of Parliament…….well worth the £75,000 plus exes of….well, whatever you want…really, and you can get the wife and kids on the payroll too …….so let’s round it up…..with travel, food, housing ‘office’, exes to about, on the small side £250,000, but only taxed on the original £75000. The other £175,000 exes are “legitimate business expenses”, and therefore, tax free.
So, you numpties who still vote for these scum without a thought except, “My Da & Ma gore bless’em alwys said vote………….and I always voted……….it seems OK. An I allus paid me union dues……..but I lost me pension ‘ cos the firm went bust. Unions and courts and government …..I got bugger all. “So where’s all me Mooney
Gone, that I paid all these these years.?
Well my dear chap. We had all these “administration fees”, that you didn’t have to worry about bit we did, on your behalf, whilst on a beach in the West Indies. Crickey, it was suffering hot and we worked like Trojans, on your behalf at the cricket and Consular evenings we had to endure. A bit like being down a mine, but with sunshine. I know you can understand, you being a reet good chippy, from oop north.
And so it goes on. ……and continues…. to go on….STOP. ..This madness.. Rule the F**//s out of ANY chance of office..
One additional question
The Fire Brigade arrived Sunday evening in full Hazmat suits to decontaminate the area . What information had they been provided and by who
Apologies if someone has alreay posted this: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-18/bbc-reporter-discourages-syria-questions-due-information-war-russia
in precis – in a BBC TV interview Admiral Alan West voiced some much needed skepticism about the establishment narrative around the alleged gas attack in Douma. BBC’s Annita McVeigh asked the following questions:
“We know that the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday, or accused a western state on Friday, of perhaps fabricating evidence in Douma or somehow being involved in what happened in Douma. Given that we’re in an information war with Russia on so many fronts, do you think perhaps it’s inadvisable to be stating this so publicly given your position and your profile? Isn’t there a danger that you’re muddying the waters?”
Whoa!.
Wait a minute, did that just happen? Did a BBC reporter just suggest that it could possibly be “inadvisable” for a retired naval officer to make public statements questioning what we’re being told to believe about Syria? That the conversation shouldn’t even be had? That the questions shouldn’t even be asked? Because we’re trying to win an “information war”? Did McVeigh really suggest that the intelligence of the same war machine which led us into Iraq on false pretences should not be questioned at the risk of “muddying the waters”?
Obviously they gave the game away. She will probably be reprimanded and sent on a correction course.
Wait a minute, did that just happen? Did a BBC reporter just suggest that it could possibly be “inadvisable” for a retired naval officer to make public statements questioning what we’re being told to believe about Syria?Yet it is reported on the abc here in Aus that its RT.com that is being investigated for partiality….by OFCOM. I hope someones recording this hideous period in humanity’s existence in some form understandable for the aliens that stumble across our post human nuke ravage wasteland and discover cockraoches as the only surviving higher life form.
Really indicative of the mindset that is being manufactured. This is a matter of national security we must all stick together and back the government or else we are helping the enemy. Internment next.
It’s an information war with our missiles being used as words…
Sometimes the Hawks and the mass disinformation media forget that people abroad (especially those they target) can (a) access the Internet, and (b) speak English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wh6VGADUBs
They Try’d to connect Skripas to Syria…. As they do ..Or Russia.
Tom Duggan –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqPXbqhyqQ&feature=share
Tom. and Vanessa…at they do Best
Thanks again Craig
The phrase “their work was instrumental in ensuring widespread international support for the Government’s position on Russian responsibility for the Salisbury attack” really reveals that the ‘position’ taken was already in place.
As they identified the chemical pretty much immediately how can this be?
hmmm
So what do you very rich people in The British Establishment really want?
You have embarrassed yourselves…
So I wil tell you a little true story
My brother-in-law (from Manchester) was working on computer software at EMI in London – same offices in a big building…
He was working on computer software specifically designed to make weapons of mass destuction work. He was a very clever man – a chess champion (i only beat him once – and he didn’t cheat)
Then The Beatles walked in – he didn’t have a clue who they were..but EMI also were interested in Recording Music from people from Lancashire (Liverpool). No one from Manchester was famous, and neither was anyone from Liverpool..but for some reason these people liked the Liverpool Music
My brother-in-law, met John Lennon at the end of the shift – in the pub opposite.
He heard his music.
He told my sister (his wife). He told his boss. I can no longer write software for weapons of mass destruction. He was earning a lot of money.
He resigned. My sister did not approve and divorced him. (I thought he was Brilliant) circa 1960’s
Twenty, maybe Thirty Year later, My Brother’s Son, is literally top of The Class -1st PhD – Cambridge and Oxford in further studies…then he gets a job designing software for mass destruction of human beings..He does it for about a year.
Then he resigns too..He couldn’t do it any more. He gave it all up and is now a Roman Catholic Dominican Priest now in America,
I think there is a fair chance he might make Pope…He is extremely well qualified, and he is an extremely nice person.
Religion is not going to go away, so you might as well have someone nice making it up.
He’s a good looking lad, but unlike me has lost all his hair. It might have been shagging the monks. but I think that unlikely. Some people seem to have no sexuality at all, or if they had, they totally repress it and become Pope (or equivakent in your religious, politicial or tribal domain)
The rest of us can’t be arsed unless you threaten us.
I think we are mostly Celtic
“a branch of the Indo-European family of languages that includes Gaelic, Welsh, and Breton, still spoken in parts of Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and Brittany. Modern Celtic is divided into the Brythonic (southern) and Goidelic (northern) groups. of, relating to, or characteristic of the Celts or the Celtic languages.”
Tony
Ah, but you see the aim is recruit very clever people who are not very worldly wise.
It is actually quite hard to find a job if you expect to apply your morals in the place of work.
Cover ups, sexual harassment, financial corruption can occur in the most apparently righteous of places, like medical research organisations. Not to mention spying networks…….
MI6 use ski resorts as playgrounds for their young tyros. Skiing, the most harmless of pursuits: controlled by the controllers.
I made a great mistake in seeing the world the way it was by 18 years old. My life was spent trying to find a place where you could work without spending 8hrs a day repressing all that. And having spies trying to destroy you if you looked like finding it.
Sex if anything is a sign of a lack of enlightenment: an acknowledgement that spiritual fulfilment will not be yours to taste. Oh, and it is a sign you were not bottom of the bullying pecking order at school……
Tony
Zenith camera and Ferrania films. That brought back memories from the 60s ridding back.
Should have read rushing back.
Whilst trying to keep up with her – she was extremly annoyed about all these plastic bottles in The Thames. My wife pointed them out to me, and says – look there is another one. I said unfortunately now, most people don’t give a sh1t. I said I don’t know why the entire industry doesn’t go back to glass. It worked fine when we were kids.
We do have a milkman who delivers milk every other day in Glass Bottles.
He takes them back – and they come back refilled with fresh milk.
My wife can tell the difference between milk in glass bottles and milk in plastic.
She drinks milk from glass bottles, and so do I.
So far as I am aware, neither of us have any signs of cancer, and well she is very healthy
I said plastic is not..Its not too bad if it is really cold, but particularly if it is hot, the evidence is overwhelming that plastic bottle leach cancer causing chemicals in the liquids you drink.
My wife knows the smell, and she won’t drink it if it stinks of plastic,
Glass does not pollute anything, and is totally reusable.
Get your milkman to deliver it…It migh be slightly mor expensive, but you don’t have to waste petrol, and poluute the earth by driving to the supermarket.
Our Milkman has an almost silent electric Milk Float, and he is also a very nice man.
Tony
BBC Trending
Syria war: The online activists pushing conspiracy theories
2 hours ago
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-43745629
They don’t mention CM, but the standard ploy is to conflate any skeptics with the loony fringe.
The fact that they feel the need to produce such an article suggests … .
Just saw this too, Keith. Basically ‘These dangerous conspiracy theorists need sorting out, and soon!’ Interesting that the State Broadcaster can do a hit-piece on the alternative views of the Syria war and the wonderful ‘White Helmets’. When they can’t do a proper demolition job on any part of the ludicrous Salisbury Whitehall farce.
“According to their narrative, international media organisations across the political spectrum, along with human rights organisations, are somehow covertly aligned with Western governments…”
What’s a political spectrum? Is that when you have a range of views between two poles, say between extreme ultra right and mega-ultra right?
If we assume, first, that the Russians are innocent of the Skripal nonsense but simply wrong about the veracity or authenticity of the Spiez lab leak, this would reflect very poorly, I think, on the competence of FM Lavrov and the Russian Foreign Ministry, the RF intelligence services and chemical weapons analysts, or, given Putin’s background in the KGB, Putin himself.
The same withering evaluation could be made if we assume that they were deliberately misled–indeed “punked” by a maliciously inaccurate leak.
Given that either was always obviously a possibility, they could have played their cards more cagily, asking pointed questions of the OPCW about whether other substances such as BZ were found, without disclosing their source, potentially burning him or her, and putting Spiez into full damage-control mode.
But to attempt to be fair, this may have been a resort of desperation, the home-court advantage here being overwhelming, even without reading actual ill intent into what appears to me to be a very strange interpretation of OPCW obligations. The confidentiality of the findings (setting aside an understandable policy of protecting the labs from public exposure) and the incompleteness of what *is* disclosed strike me as entirely bizarre. I mean, we can’t even name unequivocally what the substance was? And on what basis is the UK automatically the wronged party, and the accused the guilty party, for the purposes of investigation?
What if Russia had demanded a challenge inspection of Porton Down right off the hop (which if the Russians had actually planned it, they might have been clever enough to have considered). Or at the very least Russia could have been the accusing party. A Russian citizen (or citizens) were attacked on British soil, by what looks like a chemical agent, with what would appear to be covering actions by the British state, etc.
Honestly, though, if the OPCW handling of this case is a contorted as it seems to my inexpert eye, would Russia itself not be filing some sort of formal protest (already or soon, if they were hoping to wrangle it out of them tactically, or are playing with an eye to East Ghouta)?
But if the OPCW is being as duplicitous as I suspect (based on recent form in Salisbury and in Syria last year), the Russians might very well believe the Salibury battle is lost, but may be hoping that the OPCW might throw them a bone in Ghouta…
Given the UK’s control over the crime scene (a crime of some sort has doubtless been committed), over the media (as with the BBC partisans in the “Information war with Russia” as it’s been put), over the precise form of technical assistance they were able to insist on, the OPCW’s apparently arbitrary control over procedure and disclosures, Russia simply can’t win, and by now if not from the outset, knows this.
Still their handling of the “leaked” Spiez report is not a good look. If the goal was at least for the OPCW to discredit itself in the eyes of the world (or at least the chemical warfare and weapons interdiction communities), which may have been happening, the Spiez report was an own goal. Or what am I missing?
At this point, though, still presuming Russia’s innocence, as one used to do with the accused, and feeling a little sad for them (and sadder still for us), I find myself trying to recall the details of the Dan Rather blockbuster disclosure of Dubya’s appalling National Guard service record.
If I recall, Rather’s report was factually impeccable–every dereliction claimed on the record actually happened, but the physical report itself was a forgery. That is, a perfect or near-perfect forgery, entirely factually accurate, indistinguishable except in the smallest detail (say chemical composition of the paper), in ways Rather’s team could not be expected to have the means of detecting, for the authentic original, which documented these same derelictions.
But Rather’s report, and its accusations against a sitting President, were now demonstrably based on a forgery. (I know, it was a simpler time, when fake accusations against a President were considered a bad thing.)
And the substance of the report could now be summarily dismissed, as if it had become the task of journalists not to present evidence and claims offered in good faith as possibly true, in order to have the powerful answer to them, but now the standard morphs into a guarantee that every word is incontrovertible before it can be disclosed to the public.
The most powerful investigative journalist in America destroyed by the intelligence agencies in a master stroke. Sometimes when I ask myself how the media became so servile, so fast, I wonder if they were broken by the Rather frame-up. An inflection point, at least.
What journalist could ever again feel that they could stake their reputation on a document.
It’s entirely possible that the leaked Spiez lab report is essentially correct in all its relevant details, but may have been altered just enough in some insignificant respect that the Spiez lab could claim that it does not conform to the format that they use (for a single line item or paragraph, for example). Once the authentic provenance of the document is discredited, the entirety of the (perhaps essentially accurate) BZ findings are tainted, much as the samples themselves may have been. Where, for example, BZ was added to the control samples, to match its presence in the test samples. All Spiez said was the former, and no one will ever force them to answer regarding the latter, now that the Spiez leak is seen as an embarrassing flop.
Thanks for raising this issue. Fascinating. Lavrov isn’t stupid, someone must have provided him with credible data which seemed to confirm that BZ was found in site samples. Would he have taken a risk like that if he was unsure about what he saw? But suppose he felt reckless. The lab was asked repeatedly about BZ. It refused to answer in advance of the committee meeting. Would it have been a protocol breach to note that ‘QA procedures used control samples’? No. QA should be public information. But Lavrov was left hanging in the wind until the OPCW committee got together and collectively and very publicly mugged him. Why did the OPCW feel it needed to behave like a street gang? Not that I like Lavrov, but that behaviour was inconsistent with a professional and academic organisation.
It’s slightly irrelevant, since the “findings” to the extent we’re allowed to know them do not support the UK position despite the threadbare wording of the OPCW summary. The UK view that purity = military depends on the definition of military. UK wishes it to mean both ‘volume stockpile’ and chemical purity. But high purity suggests small lab batches, not industrial volume production, even if we assume that it does not degrade in bulk over time. Someone produced it in a lab and provided it in something like a glass ampoule. As to who, anyone competent.
Also interesting that the issue of concentration and purity is conflated with questions of volatility and delayed action. The UK conclusion is that it is Novichok family, but a ‘new type’ of frighteningly lethal poison. The first Foliant product was VX-R which was apparently a bit like VX for persistence and non-volatility. These are not wildly diverse products. Without the formula, we don’t know whether the OPCW sample was a known Novichok or a new variant. It is apparently not impossible for a Novichok to have a delayed onset. But to have a 4-hour onset and still be treatable makes a mockery of the claim for lethality. All the other questions remain not only unanswered, but – at least by the MSM – unasked.
Boris Johnson told the Russians it was A-234, so the UK Govt know what is was, apparently. So people can discuss A-234 and whether it was lethal or not……
Aside from questions about whether BoJo is a reliable source, the UK said yesterday “a clear case of a new family of toxic chemicals intended to kill”. Novichoks date from the ’70s and have been public knowledge for more than a quarter century. So either BoJo is wrong or the UK OPCW rep is wrong.
Hi Paul, good post. I see some logic in your arguments. However, I cannot shake off the feeling that the Spiez lab’s report was correct not least because the symptoms associated with BZ were clearly evident in the Skripals and match with Blanshard’s Statement from Salisbury Hospital. Added to which, both labs found the novichock agent in large quantities which would have been lethal to the Skripals. So, I still believe that BZ was the agent used to cause the behaviour and symptoms as witnessed by the public and confirmed by Dr Stephen Davies and Blanshard.
Very interesting analysis, and yes the Rather case is conceivably of direct relevance here.
One would assume that Lavrov would not have made his statement, which was quite detailed after all, without having it thoroughly confirmed by Russian “experts”, notably those with familiarity with OPCW procedures. This does raise the possibility that what was “leaked” to the Russians was deliberately distorted (effectively moving the BZ from a control sample to the actual sample) to set up the Russians, in which case it worked like a dream. Note that such a “sting” would not have required the active participation of the OPCW, it could easily have been carried out by a “3rd” party.
Other explanations enter into the twilight zone — I’m not saying that they couldn’t have happened, just that anyone who proposes them will immediately be dismissed as a lunatic conspiracy theorist. For example, starting with the basic premise that the Skripals could NOT have been poisoned with pure A-234 (novichok) because if so they would be dead, one cannot exclude the following scenario: they were poisoned with BZ, while traces of A-234 mysteriously appeared in various sites in Salisbury (notably the door handle). So there are samples with BZ and A-234 that are “collected” by the OPCW, and perhaps (just perhaps) these somehow got mixed up. And then, by the most fortuitous of coincidences, the substance chosen by the OPCW to “spike” the control sample was none other than BZ.
It would indeed be very interesting to know if using BZ as a negative control for a chemical weapon of an entirely different class is a common practice at the OPCW, but of course we will never have a reliable answer to this question.
There does unfortunately seem to be a precedent for an international control organisation manipulating samples (and lab results), specifically with regard to the alleged nuclear reactor supposedly supplied by North Korea which the Israelis destroyed in Syria in 2008:
“. . . the November 2008 IAEA report claiming a positive finding was not consistent with its protocols . . . But what bothered Abushady [the IAEA’s expert on North Korean reactors, who was excluded from the on-site investigation] the most was that the IAEA report on Syria had remained silent on the crucial fact that none of the sample results had shown any trace of nuclear-grade graphite.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/19/how-syrian-nuke-evidence-was-faked/
Sorry, this is meant as a reaction to Paul’s comment of 0344.
Madeira, I got that, yes. Your question about why BZ would be chosen as a control sample is a very interesting one.
What a Even a Small Scale Nuclear War Would Do to Planet Earth
Vic Bishop, Staff Writer
Waking Times
The mainstream media is cheering on the psychopaths in government as they deliberately stoke conflict with Russia and press further forward with the Neocon agenda of total global war. If the media were doing its job, however, they’d be asking questions and pursuing truth in governmental matters in order to contribute to the good of society and the betterment of the world.
At issue in this looming conflict is the horrifying specter of nuclear war, and the threat of such an unwinnable conflict is higher today than at any point during the cold war. It seems that we’ve become desensitized to what a nuclear war would mean and have lost interest in preserving peace and mutual security on our shared planet.
SNIP
Atmospheric scientist Brian Toon has been studying nuclear war for thirty-five years, and as he explains in the TED talk below, nuclear conflict with today’s high-powered weapons could easily mean the destruction of the entire planet.
In the startling presentation, Toon explains what we’re facing as belligerence between nuclear powers increases and the situation in the Middle East intensifies. As frightening as this information is, it serves as a necessary wake up call for all those out there who are at present content with sleep-walking into such a dangerous future.
More: http://www.wakingtimes.com/2018/04/17/what-a-even-a-small-scale-nuclear-war-would-do-to-planet-earth/
Silvio, thanks for the reflection and the links. A cavil: you might want to reconsider your locating of the “psychopaths” only in the neocon camp. At the very least, a civilizational sociopathy seems to be no less deeply rooted among our Information Warriors, the mass media.
Some basic laws of science and medicine have been disrupted here. The textbooks have to be rewritten. Instruction manuals have to be updated. Assassination manuals need caveats.
Well PD with the assistance of the OPCW have upset all these laws. Deadly military grade agents are not nearly as deadly or as quick acting as we thought. So if your interpretation of facts does not fit the facts we have to alter the facts.
You know
If the Spiez report given to Lavrov is a fake and a forgery, who would have known about the BZ being used as a control?
Obviously Lavrov was in the dark, so someone in the OPCW?Or one of the labs?
It certainly discredits the Russians, but only for gullibility, because they certainly wouldn’t have made up the story themselves, how could they have
Someone who knew about the BZ, made up a bogus report and “leaked”it to Lavrov
Thats as far as my detective powers go, someone cleverer than me critique this notion and build on it…or take it apart, I’m quite willing to admit I get things wrong
The thing about this BZ story is that it fits in very well with the fact that all three victims recovered and with the initial symptoms described.
Maureen’s onto an interesting question: If we believe that the Russians are guilty as charged, would they have fallen for a false BZ report? Setting aside the foreseeable dodges: This is how pure evil works, they want to lord their incompetence over us, this is how they try to seem innocent…
“Someone who knew about the BZ, made up a bogus report and “leaked”it to Lavrov”
Don’t suppose you’d considered the possibility Russia was spying on the OPCW? Reading their emails maybe?
Thought not, that nice mister Putin would never do anything like that now would he.
An alternative explanation is that maybe the Russian thought that novichoks are crap at killing people but really wanted independent verification by an actual field experiment.
Ha ha ha
An article in the Guardian about the possible replacement of US troops in Syria by Arab troops shows exactly how confused, conceited and bigoted the individuals involved are. In fact it turns out to be an attempt to privatise the replacement force to Blackwater, run by a certain Prince, who is great buddies with the POTUS but to get the rich ( or once rich) Arab kingdoms to pay for this.
One sentence that attracted my attention was this:
“Meanwhile, the Saudi monarchy and its regional allies are uneasy that events on the ground in Syria are being dictated by external powers, none of which are Arab.”
Of course the SAG , unlike the KSA does not count here, they should not be making decisions about the future ofi Syria, should they?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/18/us-syria-arab-force-replace-american-troops-saudi-arabia-egypt-uae
Eric Prince formerly known as Prins.. Blackwater renamed as Academi which he flogged off to ‘investors’. He has a new company called R2 working from Abu Dhabi and another called Frontier Services Group working for the Chinese in Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Services_Group.
You can call him evil but not stupid. Already wealthy, he has ripped $billions off the American taxpayers .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Prince
It is all Mummy’s fault. The ‘religious right’. https://mediamousearchive.wordpress.com/resources/right/people/elsa-prince/
And big sister is well in with Trump too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_DeVos
The whole bunch have fortunes in $billions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBtn2NQ5k58
One bizarre “fact” is that the British have not demanded an inspection of the facility they claim produced the Novichok.
That is clearly possible under OPCW regulations.
I wonder why?
@Billy Bostickson, good question! What’s wrong with OPCW? Why did not they jump into Salisbury case immediately? It would be right and even obligatory thing to do – British authorities could not know the scale of chemical contamination, or how much people harmed, or how many cities could also be contaminated – or… did they know?
OPCW must have inspected russian facility as soon as possible!
OPCW must have been inspecting Douma the next day after the report on chemical attack.
OPCW general director could also say a couple of words that Russia had had 811 different independent inspections to certify the country is free of chemical weapons.
if someone understands russian (or can use, say, Google translator)
https://ria.ru/world/20180418/1518936593.html?referrer_block=index_main_5
briefly – Alexander Shulgin russian representative at OPCW demonstrated a document by United States Patent and Trademark Office, dated December 1, 2015. American scientist developed a bullet with a reservoir for poisons that are “…following nerve agents…VG, VM, VR, VX and agents of Novichok type”
Alexander Shulgin says there are 140 patents on ‘Novichok’ keyword at google.patents.com and it means that USA developed and patented nerve agents of Novichok type.
Actually, Tatyana it does not, it means they wanted a patent with as broad terms as possible. I have worked with patent attorneys shaping claims for filing and the aim is to have as broad a coverage as possible, to maximise the chances of making money from the patent. So you include everything you can dream up that you think might conceivably get past the patent examiner. You are not necessarily developing that Novichok weapon yourself, it is the delivery system which is your core patentable entity.
Of course it shows US to have Novichok in their mindset, but mostly it shows that in the US, assassination programme technology was/is being actively developed.
I wonder what Mrs May would have to say at PMQs about that?
Her closest ally filing patents to do what she accused the Russians of doing (chemical weapons assassination programme).
Dear me…..
Rhys Jaggar, they put word Novichok in the text of the patent, nor ‘Foliant’ or ‘A-234’ (as were the names of USSR chemical research programm). For me it is clear evidence that Novichok existed, and it is not Russia who developed it.
Here is the patent in question, I believe:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=Novichok&s2=bullet&OS=Novichok+AND+bullet&RS=Novichok+AND+bullet
The invention itself seems quite diabolical, however (as Rhys Jaggar says above) the mention of Novichok itself is pro forma, without great significance.
Tatyana, Good questions. I note from Our Ambassador to the UN’s address yesterday that she said they had 10 days to answer 14 questions put by Russia so they would so in that time frame. However, the UK Govt only gave Russia 24 hours to provide a response to an accusation. Russia responded to that saying it would fully cooperate with a joint OPCW Investigation with 10 days to reply. That was refused by the British Government. In fact, all Russia’s requests have been refused by the British Government. What concerns me is that the OPCW do not appear to be an impartial organisation at all – which is deeply concerning. Like you said, the OPCW Director General could have provided that information but did not. It is the case the OPCW, teh UK Govt and the USA know Russia are not responsible but persist in trying to raise anti-russian hysteria with lies, deceit and malice.
The UK has badgered the Russians with guilt assuming questions like why did you do it?
How did you do it?
Did you lose control of your novichok stocks?
But not once have they ever asked “whats the antidote?”
Having bothered to learn a few languages, puts you in the unique position of being able to compare events as reported in various countries. In many cases the MSM spouts exactly the same , with slightly different words. But the comments, ok…
The not MSM mainly is in English, supposedly to reach a broader audience, fair enough, and the comments sections of those sites show a congregation of people obviously from the whole world, and a plethora of opinions. Which is all good, and why the Internet is also a good thing.
But what baffles me is that the two countries that almost always walk in lock-step on an issue, namely USUK, always has the most aggressive and manipulating MSM. Especially the British, the hate, lies, disinformation and not to forget: omissions are Owellian in scope.
Back to the comments, reading comments on MSM is a wake-up call. A wake -up call for enlightenment or better public education, because the falsities people obviously believe in are so blatant it is head spinning.
It is not often I congratulate myself of belonging to an extreme language minority (Danish/Swedish), hence for the most not being targeted for disinformation. And we still do allow critical thinking in our education system, although it is slipping.
Den, what do people in Denmark and Sweden make of Britain’s act as the world’s humanitarian policeman? There must be a lot of scratching of heads.