When is a British Person Not British? 430


The attitude to immigrants which is betrayed by the stripping of citizenship from Shamima Begum is truly appalling. A British citizen, born in the UK, is deemed to be a citizen of another country they have never seen, because their immigrant parents came from there. To refuse to accept first generation Britons are Britons, as in Windrush, was bad enough. To claim that second generation Britons are not British, but rather citizens of where their ancestors “came from”, is racism pure and simple.

Begum is not a sympathetic figure. Savid Javid could not have found an easier target for his macho display of vindictiveness, guaranteed to win plaudits from the bigots whose votes Javid needs for his looming Tory leadership bid. Javid knows full well his decision will eventually be overturned by the courts, but he has already achieved his political objective of personal self-aggrandisement.

I do not know everything Begum has personally been doing in Syria and to what extent she has been culpable in any of the crimes of the Saudi backed jihadist group Daesh, originally launched by the CIA as a counterweight to Shia influence in Iraq. Begum, as with other members of the ISIS community in Syria, ought initially to be subject to any legal proceedings by the Syrian authorities on behalf of the Syrian people against whom such dreadful crimes were committed. If of no interest to the Syrian justice system or once any sentence has been completed, she should be returned to the UK and then subject to investigation as to whether any UK crimes were committed. All these processes need to take into account that she arrived in Syria as a minor, has been subject to indoctrination, and may well have severe mental health issues.

In a situation where the government is falling over itself to bring members of the UK-funded jihadist support group the White Helmets to the UK, having no claim to British citizenship; in a situation where jihadist activity in Syria was entirely dependent on finance, supplies and air support from the US, UK, and its Gulf State allies; in a situation where the Royal Navy had evacuated the Manchester bomber en route back to the UK after his Western backed terrorist jaunt in Libya; in a situation where the Manchester, Westminster and London Bridge terrorists all had extensive pre-existing relationships with the British security services; in all these circumstances, the decision to crack down to general applause on a bewildered East London child is a sickening example of the lack of ethics in modern politics.

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430 thoughts on “When is a British Person Not British?

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  • Sharp Ears

    Chuka gets around.

    ‘Ten days before Britain’s deadline to leave the EU, our panel of pro-Remain politicians, including MPs Owen Smith, Lisa Nandy and Chuka Umunna, with the Guardian’s Anushka Asthana, discuss what’s next for the 48%.

    Over the course of Brexit negotiations, Remainers have expressed feelings of disillusionment and discontent. While seven Labour MPs have resigned to form The Independent Group, Nigel Farage threatens to form a new pro-Brexit party if the departure is delayed.

    Is a second referendum still on the agenda? What will The Independent Group offer pro-Remain voters that Labour cannot? What could a future relationship with the EU look like? And what does it mean to be pro-EU in the Spring of 2019?Brexit. What next for remainers?

    £20 to find out.
    https://membership.theguardian.com/event/brexit-what-next-for-remainers-56638708903?

    LOL

  • BrianFujisan

    Me on peter Gabriel Fbook –

    I Think Peter Should Explain. Re the Branson Sham Concert … ” Either he AGREED, or Branson used his Name. Peter should really be on the Side of Roger … Not Corporate Billionaires.

    I have seen Peter Live Four Times…I won’t say Branson cost this fan YET.

  • SA

    Another good article by Jonathan Cook
    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/anti-semitism-cover-much-deeper-divide-britains-labour-party
    In it he explains how the accusations of Antisemitism in the Labour Party are a cover for the wider Blairites subplot.
    Of course now that three tories have joined the group, the real reason, that of a supposedly centrist party to realign politics to the Blairites ideal will slowly become obvious. But will the toriesjouning eventually become an embarassement to them and to the group? That will become more obvious as the plot evolves.
    The role of Watson in this is obviously to remain within the party and given that he has been elected, to wreck it from within. I think that he is the one to watch.

    • giyane

      SA

      I don’t think AS is anything to do with centrism in British politics. It’s a tool of the scumbag Alt Right ERG who puppet May as slogan for normal Tory tripe.

      It’s like the feminists who tell you you are secretly gay but you haven’t realisedit yourself. They want you to be gay because that would justify their own disgusting behaviour.

      Cornyn should attack the Tories for gambling on failure I.e. hedge funds. How can someone put our interests first when they might gain from our loss.

      The taunt of AS is something we have to live with so long as Tories wish to trash the Muslim world. Most people on this highly intelligent panel hate Islam and that is the fault of the Islamists ( founded by the British ).and that will continue as long as Muslims want to line their pockets with Christian cash

    • BrianFujisan

      SA .. Thank You

      I suspect like Many of us you See the Horrors, and Violence against Palestinians..Maybe not all the time.. Like I do.. EVERY DAY….And we Know that some of their hate crime Videos can’t be posted here

    • Tom

      That would be the same Thomas Clarke who said he was in favour of bombing Syria due to his rampant Islamophobia. ‘Another Angry Voice’ is another person emotively arguing for the NATO status quo, i.e. he’s a piece of shit.

  • Sharp Ears

    Rafshin Attansi on Going Underground

    Are the White Helmets involved in organ trafficking? Brexit showdown in N. Ireland (E715)
    20 Feb, 2019

    We speak to independent reporter Vanessa Beeley on her investigations into alleged White Helmets organ trafficking and the brutality of the French police in the Yellow Vests protests. Next, we speak to Lembit Opik, who joins us for Broken News. Finally, we speak to Ian Paisley Jr. as time runs out for a Brexit deal to be agreed upon.

    http://fb.me/GoingUndergroundRT
    https://www.youtube.com/user/GoingUndergroundRT

  • Sharp Ears

    ‘Bye.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/feb/22/ian-austin-becomes-ninth-mp-to-quit-labour-politics-live

    Labour Friends of Israel funded many of his foreign trips –
    eg To Washington 2018 to attend AIPAC Conference March 2017

    The so called ‘Australia Israel Cultural Exchange’ funded a visit to Jerusalem in July 2018

    The Israeli Knesset and the Israeli Ministry of Jerusalem and Heritage funded another visit to Israel in the same month

    The ‘Israel’ entries go and on. Whatever did he do for his constituents in Dudley whilst all this foreign travel was going on? He received large donations from Sir Trevor Chinn and Sir David Garrard totalling £15k and £10k from the GMB. It is astounding. Hope they all received value for their money.

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=11553

    A trougher and a second home ‘flipper’ too. See Expenses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Austin_(politician)

  • Sharp Ears

    The American lobby sounds to be little different from the British version. Perhaps more powerful politically whereas the British version is more of a covert operation. That is what they hope anyway but the truth is emerging.

    The Israel lobby is built on the biggest guilt trip in the world
    By Philip Weiss
    February 21, 2019
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51145.htm

  • Tintin Quarantino

    (I’ll need to track back and follow some of this very interesting commentary here: this is a holding response, with my Tintin foil hat on)

    is it possible that this is, given its timing, and synchronous with the Jussie Smollett story in the US – now revealed to be a hoax, possibly to foment racially motivated agitation to undermine Trump’s position in the US (another Democratic wheeze) -, an ‘inside job’: a scripted story, to achieve the same ends? A prima facie case of intelligence scripted theatre?

    It would not be the first time such a ruse has been accepted wholesale and become the decoy narrative. (Trying to recall the name of the young – at the time – muslim woman who claimed that babies were being taken from hospitals and being slaughtered by Saddam Hussein’s RG: G.H.W Bush used that as one of many false pretexts for invasion and the media lapped it up of course. It was a UN speech. She was later discovered to be not who she was presented as being, but a relative of a wealthy Arab family, and, if I recall correctly, an actress, of sorts.)

    I’ll do some more analysis of course.

    • Sharp Ears

      Ann Clwyd, a Labour MP and still in the HoC, propagated the lies about a people shredder etc

      Ann Clwyd’s false claims that Saddam used a people shredder was as dangerous a justification for war as Blair’s dodgy dossier
      Thu 4 Feb 2010 19.00 GMT
      4 Feb 2010

      Why did Ann Clwyd get such an easy ride during her appearance at the Chilcot inquiry this week, from both m’luds and the media? Clwyd is at least as complicit as her former boss Tony Blair in the dissemination of tall tales designed to justify the attack on Iraq.

      Clwyd is Labour MP for Cynon Valley and head of Indict, a group that campaigned for many years for the arrest and punishment of Saddam Hussein and his cronies under international law. On the eve of the Iraq War – 18 March 2003 to be precise – Clwyd wrote an article for the Times in which she claimed that Saddam had a people-shredding machine.

      /..
      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/feb/04/ann-cwlyd-saddam-shredder-iraq-inquiry

      How she voted:
      How Ann Clwyd voted on Foreign Policy and Defence #
      Generally voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas
      Consistently voted for the Iraq war
      Consistently voted against investigations into the Iraq war
      Voted for military action against ISIL (Daesh)

      This is how it worked.
      ‘As the first journalist to state the unsubstantiated claim, the rolling effect of the gruesome verbal picture garnered wider media and international political support, including from Australian Prime Minister John Howard, for an invasion of Iraq. The Sun’s political editor Trevor Kavanagh wrote in February 2004 that as a result of Clwyd’s article “Public opinion swung behind Tony Blair, as voters learned how Saddam fed dissidents feet first into industrial shredders.” As she had been vocal and prominent in her concern for the situation in Iraq before the war, Tony Blair made her a Special Envoy on Human Rights in Iraq in the run-up to the war.’
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Clwyd

      Dreadful woman.

      • giyane

        Cynon is a recruiting ground for the army. They probably started the lie and she picked it down the line. At that time we vaguely believed these stories about the dictators, long before Cameron decided to use Al Qaida in Libya and Syria openly.

        This Tory government is running out of road and anything that looks like a Tory is leaving the sinking ship. The BBC is so desperate to save the Tory wonks they even used Women’s hour to take a swipe at Corbyn on AS.

        Looks like Oliver’s bar conversation was accurate. When the Withdrawal is hounded out of the HoC May will kick brexit into the silage field.

        Brexit has got to be the biggest fuckup
        since Suez.

        • Ken Kenn

          I don’t honestly see why this young woman is of particular interest.

          There are many white fighters who went to fight Asaads forces and there are many non white people who did.

          No doubt the ironically titled Ministry of Attack sorry Defence will have asked them about their unusual holiday experiences and hopefully will keep an eye on them all but we know that some may emerge as potential terrorists in the future. This will happen despite the surveillance.

          My view may be simple but maybe – just maybe the best way not to create enemies is to stop bombing the crap out of these countries and try and assist rebuilding them?

          Unfortunately that is not the US way or it’s little friend ( the UK’s) way.

          They have gone from Empire builders to nation destroyers.

          They don’t really have a plan apart from not letting China or Russia grab the spoils.

          Venezuela is in the hole for about 70 billion of Chinese loans and the Yanks think in terms of slighting or stopping China developing further. So it’s not just about oil.

          It won’t work and China will carry on as usual.

          The only way it will work is to attack China and Russia but that risks nuclear war and even Walrus face Bolton knows that is extremely risky.

          Nothing worse than a singed moustache I say.

      • Tintin Quarantino

        Thanks very much for this. Not quite what I was after, yet, still absolutely helpful. Kudos, and, I’ll be sure to revisit this historical piece as well.

  • michael norton

    Shamima Begum: Islamic State wife
    challenge citizenship move
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47326496
    The family of Shamima Begum – who left the U.K. to join the Islamic State group in Syria – have told the home secretary they are going to challenge his decision to revoke her U.K. citizenship.

    Apparently they also want help to bring her baby to England.

    Islamic State was a name chosen by its leaders to proclaim to the World, that they have created another state.
    Did Islamic State issue passports or identification papers to its citizens?

  • michael norton

    Passport with a dark green bound leather cover also made the rounds on social media. Its ornate, emblazoned logo and full Arabic script made it appear legitimate. One report claimed that Islamic State had issued it to 11,000 citizens who lived near the Iraq-Syria border. According to Al Arabiya, the group was using a captured Iraqi government “Identification and Passport Center” in Mosul to create the documents as an effort to boost morale and solidify its rule.

    As a militant movement aspiring to statehood—one that was capturing and holding on to territory, and implementing a legal regime—IS would be expected to furnish its own passport. After all, it engaged in the formal administration of travel consistent with modern statehood practices, issuing safe-conduct passes and exit permits for exceptional circumstances. Furthermore, IS built bureaucratic structures to manage the populations it conquered. A passport would supplement these official efforts to regulate the movement and identities of individuals within and passing through its territories. Also, it would symbolically supplant the previous documents of foreign fighters who burnt their passports to show their full commitment to IS and reject their old citizenship.
    https://www.21global.ucsb.edu/global-e/september-2017/islamic-state%E2%80%99s-passport-paradox

    A good question would be
    did Begum destroy the British passport she travelled on to Turkey/Syria?

    Did she obtain passport of identification papers from Islamic State?

    • Mary Paul

      weren’t the women’s passports confiscated on arrival? I thought that was what usually happened.

      • michael norton

        Mary Paul it has indeed been said that people smugglers take the people’s passports but you are right that if Begum had a passport entering Islamic State, the I.S. officials would have taken that passport from her, almost certainly that would have given her replacement papers but most likely not an Islamic State passport.

  • Steve Hayes

    The British state has been consistently supporting jihadists since 1979, at least. When are we going to see those responsible for such terrorism held accountable?

  • .Peter

    In the end I can only say this: there is an old German proverb, that sayyus: mit gegangen, mitgehangen. As a member of Daesh she in my opinion has renounced her citizenship herself. She entered into a conspiracy of a group dedicated to murder and mayhem, much worse than any Maffia style group previously.
    I can only say in total earnest – let them get into the country, line them all up against the wall and shoot them – no questions asked.

    • EricsEars

      Your total ‘earnest’ ignorance is here displayed for all to see dotPeter. Public hangings? How very Daesh’ing.

      • .Peter

        I did say shoot them. Not hang them. That takes too much time.
        Ignorance? Daesh by their actions – unless you think throwing people off towers, burning them alive, using civilians as shields, forced labour, killing enemy combatants like the soldiers of the Syrian army, use of chemical weapons, indiscriminately killing civilians, public executions are just minor infringements – has to my mind forfeited any right to a treatment under any law but are as a conspiracy to murder, extort and spread national mayhem as a group culpable in toto and are nothing more than good for target practise.

        • .Peter

          PS – their Gulf State supporters should be treated the same btw. Compared to Daesh Bin Laden was a reasonable Gentlemen whose actions actually made some sense historically.

        • Ken Kenn

          Surely a rigged trial first and then the hangings?

          We’re not savages you know.

          What a pratt you are.

          • .Peter

            No, we are the savages that we all are, continuing to reside in countries and by doing so tacitely supporting governments that bomb, supply arms to terrorists, engage in regime changes in countries whose leaders become inconvenient or a perceived threat to their hegemony, that allow in the guise of democracy the rule of a plutocracy or oligarchy.

            Why should I not have any interest to exterminate like the rats those that are the members of a group who were supported by those oligarchs from the USA to the Gulf States and the Saudis especially, that spread mayhem in a country whose government might no be treating its enemies or critics the most humane but are – or better were – faced by a cancer supported by us and also ironically now threatening us as well?

    • Dungroanin

      Well P if you say the same for the White Helmets, Free Syrian Army, the mercenaries and Private Military Companies (UK has most in the world) and all the sundry anglosaxons who went to invade Syria – first of course – than I’d have to say that you could move onto the women and children who ended up there as the ‘camp followers’ of these invaders.

      Let them all be handed over to the Syrians to dispense justice upon them.
      If you are not prepared to arrest and punish your own citizens that is.

  • michael norton

    Syrian authorities have uncovered a mass grave of 3,500 people outside the city of Raqqa, the former capital of the Daesh terrorist group. The find is by far the largest such site uncovered as Damascus reestablishes control over the country in the civil war that has raged since 2011.

    The bodies lay in both a giant mass grave on a plot of farmland and also in individual graves: many are clothes in the orange suits Daesh robes its victims in before executing them.

    Yet not a mention on the BBC?
    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201902221072666808-Mass-Grave-3500-Found-Former-Daesh-Capital/

    • Borncynical

      Michael

      As you say, a deafening silence from the MSM. As someone says in a comment under the article, it would be interesting to know who makes and supplies all the orange boiler suits to the terrorists. My guess is Turkish suppliers; I recall buying clothing from the UK high street which had been manufactured in Turkey so clearly they have a lucrative textile industry which the UK is probably subsidising indirectly even more through its hand outs to the terrorists over the years.

  • michael norton

    Jihad Bride of Yago Racha now wants to go to the Netherlands
    https://www.geenstijl.nl/5146367/nee-ga-weg/
    The British terrorist Shamima Begum wants to go to the Netherlands. Her British nationality is deprived of her and her husband Yago Racha comes from Idlib at the Lower Rhine, Arnhem, so she wants to go to the Netherlands. “My husband is from the Netherlands and he has family there. Maybe I can ask for a residence permit in the Netherlands. If my husband is sent to the Dutch prison, I can wait for him to be free. “Maybe not at all, Amauri. You are not a Dutchman, your child is not a Dutchman, your husband is a cowardly excuse from a Dutchman and your desert marriage took place when you were a minor. So there is no reason, neither legally nor humanitarian, to get you to the Netherlands. You are going to inject the world with your pesky gedachtengif. We don’t want you.

    • Groucho

      Shamima is indeed not a sympathetic character. However, the emotional (hysterical?) responses from those who advocate revoking her citizenship are shortsighted to say the least. The question that they should ponder is this. “Do you really want to set a precedent of giving politicians and/or bureaucrats, the latitude to revoke the citizenship if a person born in the UK?” How do you control that right once it’s been created? I think Craig’s recommendation is eminently reasonable. She should be held accountable first under Syrian and then British law for any crimes that she has committed. I also think he may have a point about the state of her mental health.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Is Trump going to claim that he is satisfied that North Korea has denuclearized, handing over what nukes it had to China, opening the way for both leaders sharing the Nobel Peace Prize?

  • Sharp Ears

    Going Underground

    Should IS bride Shamima Begum be allowed back to the UK? What do the Labour rebels stand for? (E716)
    On this episode of Going Underground, we speak to Geoffrey Robertson QC about ISIS bride Shamima Begum, who wants to return to the UK with her newborn baby. He discusses Home Secretary Sajid Javid, the cancelation of her citizenship, and what should…
    Feb 23, 2019

    https://www.rt.com/shows/going-underground/452238-isis-shamima-begum-citizenship/

    • michael norton

      Shamima Begum wants to inspire British girls not to make her mistakes

      https://metro.co.uk/2019/02/25/shamima-begum-wants-inspire-british-girls-not-make-mistakes-8730811/?ito=cbshare

      The teenager from Bethnal Green, east London, also said she hopes her story will discourage other British people from making the same mistakes as her. Begum, 19, left Britain to join Islamic State in Syria in 2015 and recently re-surfaced, heavily pregnant at a Syrian refugee camp. She has since given birth to a son, Jarrah. Her husband, Isis fighter Yago Riedijk, a Dutch national, was imprisoned in his absence by his home nation on terror charges.

      It is a bit late for her as almost nobody is now travelling to Syria to join Islamic State, as they have been defeated.

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