When is a British Person Not British? 430


The attitude to immigrants which is betrayed by the stripping of citizenship from Shamima Begum is truly appalling. A British citizen, born in the UK, is deemed to be a citizen of another country they have never seen, because their immigrant parents came from there. To refuse to accept first generation Britons are Britons, as in Windrush, was bad enough. To claim that second generation Britons are not British, but rather citizens of where their ancestors “came from”, is racism pure and simple.

Begum is not a sympathetic figure. Savid Javid could not have found an easier target for his macho display of vindictiveness, guaranteed to win plaudits from the bigots whose votes Javid needs for his looming Tory leadership bid. Javid knows full well his decision will eventually be overturned by the courts, but he has already achieved his political objective of personal self-aggrandisement.

I do not know everything Begum has personally been doing in Syria and to what extent she has been culpable in any of the crimes of the Saudi backed jihadist group Daesh, originally launched by the CIA as a counterweight to Shia influence in Iraq. Begum, as with other members of the ISIS community in Syria, ought initially to be subject to any legal proceedings by the Syrian authorities on behalf of the Syrian people against whom such dreadful crimes were committed. If of no interest to the Syrian justice system or once any sentence has been completed, she should be returned to the UK and then subject to investigation as to whether any UK crimes were committed. All these processes need to take into account that she arrived in Syria as a minor, has been subject to indoctrination, and may well have severe mental health issues.

In a situation where the government is falling over itself to bring members of the UK-funded jihadist support group the White Helmets to the UK, having no claim to British citizenship; in a situation where jihadist activity in Syria was entirely dependent on finance, supplies and air support from the US, UK, and its Gulf State allies; in a situation where the Royal Navy had evacuated the Manchester bomber en route back to the UK after his Western backed terrorist jaunt in Libya; in a situation where the Manchester, Westminster and London Bridge terrorists all had extensive pre-existing relationships with the British security services; in all these circumstances, the decision to crack down to general applause on a bewildered East London child is a sickening example of the lack of ethics in modern politics.

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430 thoughts on “When is a British Person Not British?

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  • Herbie

    Here’s a short, much too short, history of where we are and how we got here.

    Looking behind the curtain, from WWII to today.

    Revealing the method:

    https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/emergency-briefing-defence-and-security-alex-thomson

    Ever wondered why Britain has suffered so many Defence cuts over the years, why she’s few boats worth talking about and few planes?

    This companion piece discusses the end of the UK’s military independence, and the building of EU Military Union:

    https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/emergency-briefing-defence-and-security-david-ellis

    • Clark

      What “UK military independence”? In practice the UK follows the US. If Europe wants to develop away from NATO, is that bad?

      • Shatnersrug

        The problem with both of these guys is that they start from the somewhat dishonest view that our secret service and military were somehow good and brave and just and fair and that they’ve been corrupted and now serve the interests of foreign powers and big business. This is rubbish. At no point have either our army or sis been anything other than the long arm of British power, even during ww2 when we hear of great British soldiers liberation Europe they were destroying Palestinian towns, and preventing socialism. I have no doubt that there are plans to move to an EU army – why not? It makes strategic sense, but that is because the great capitalist powers are reaching a point where trade is no longer an option and will move to the next act of the Great War, there is no better way to put down an international uprising of international labour than by killing them all in a world war. It worked twice before, and it will again.

        We must not and cannot fall into the trap of fetishising our army and intelegence corps. They are and have always been the enemies of peace and freedom

        • Herbie

          That’s a fair point. These are ex-military people.

          But still, the more local the accountability the better, eh.

      • Herbie

        Military independence is when you have your own military. You have your own command.

        EU Military Union would be controlled from EU central.

        And, the UK would be incapable of producing its own army, navy, airforce, materiel, planes, ships etc. Production of all of these would be diversified throughout the EU, as much of it is already.

        So, the UK loses whatever sovereignty it has. It wouldn’t for example be able to follow an economic path at odds with the EU.

        Ultimately it means we’re stuck in the EU no matter how people vote, as the chap explained.

        So even though people think they’re going through Brexit, we’re actually being drawn more fully into the EU. That’s the point.

        Should we have a hard Brexit, for example, we go through that pain unnecessarily, without ever rising up out of it to some sort of independence.

        That’s the argument, more or less, but watch both videos. They explain it all much better than I can do here.

        The other point to note, and we’re seeing this already, is that it’s not primarily external enemies that the EU will be concerned about, but internal enemies.

        That’s US having our own ideas.

        Why don’t you ask the guys on Twitter to explain further.

        They’ll be only too happy to explain anything you want.

        • Herbie

          Oh yeah.

          Forgot to mention the increased taxes and conscription.

          That’s their selling point to sway the British public.

        • Dungroanin

          Herbie, the EU has been developing the common security force idea openly for ages. As you surely know?
          There are multiple projects involving different countries and their resources – including personnel.
          There is no conspiracy to take over sovereign control of armed forces.

          Think that the Foreign Legion will ever be out of French control, for example? Or their nukes?

          • Herbie

            I think the idea is that they’re diversifying the EU Military throughout the EU.

            So no single country shall have a military capable of standing alone.

      • Mike Robinson

        That’s up to the EU. The issue is, will Britain be involved, and that is an issue for Britain. But it’s not being discussed in Britain, because despite all efforts, UKGov denies they are involved. Yet they keep making speeches in Europe that they are (Jeremy Hunt: UK/EU security “is indivisible”; Gavin Williamson: “Europeans should not be spending two per cent of GDP on defence for America. We should be spending it for ourselves and our security.”).

        Tony Blair admitted last week that he began the process of EU defence union with the St Malo summit in 1998.

        Our argument is that if you look at the timeline on the UK Column website you can see the process develop and you can see that a key driver of it has been Franco British.

        What are the consequences for Brexit?

  • Pete Whitelock

    Except the White Helmets you disparage are humanitarians not terrorist sympathisers. Apart from that I mostly agree with your analysis

  • Charles Bostock

    Surprisingly an awful lot of commenters are attacking Craig and advocating a hard (not to say illegally hard) line against the 19 year old (who was 15 when she left for Syrian, ie a child).

    Or perhaps it’s not that surprising, because the posts of quite a few of those commenters in the past have expressed sympathy or even outright support for leaders and individuals who wish the UK no good and in some cases are its avowed enemies.

    Knowing that the comments on here are followed as a matter of routine (the miracle of technology)n are those people perhaps taking out what they belmeve might be a kind of insurance policy?

    • Ian

      There’s more than a few alt-right types here, so no surprise. If you want a cogent and intelligent analysis, read Gary Younge in today’s Guardian (yes, I know you won’t).

      • Stonky

        If you want a cogent and intelligent analysis, read Gary Younge in today’s Guardian (yes, I know you won’t)…

        I’ve read the piece, and it simply and effortlessly repeats the same idiotic cliche as all the other apologists and excusemongers:

        The notion that Britain could not handle her, could not show her a better future, could not try her, convict her, reorient her or support her, is worse than pathetic.

        I dearly wish that just one of you would devote 5 minutes to providing some plausible explanation as to exactly how you propose, here in Britain, to collect the evidence that is going to be used to assess whether she has committed any crime, before you try her and convict her…

        I won’t even bother with the rest of Younge’s inanities, other than to point out that Britain already spent fifteen years doing her a ‘better future’ before she went off to join the bestial stone-age cult, and that if Younge is so keen to ‘reorient her, support her’ then there is absolutely nothing preventing him or any of her other apologists from going out to Syria and doing it there.

        • Ian

          You’re doing extremely well in the idiotic cliche stakes yourself. Same old bluster and smoke. Younge is way ahead of you.

          • Glasshopper

            The obvious answer is to send her to Idlib where Al Nusra are protected by the west. A halfway house for Sunnifascist fruitcakes the West can’t let go of.

          • Stonky

            You’re doing extremely well in the idiotic cliche stakes yourself. Same old bluster and smoke. Younge is way ahead of you…

            My post is only a cliche because I keep having to repeat it, and I only keep having to repeat it because people like you and Gary Younge and dozens of others persist in making vacuous and inane statements about how “If Shamima has committed any crime she can be held to account in the UK…” without ever providing any plausible explanation about how you’re planning to assemble the evidence.

            But feel free to take up the cudgels on behalf of your hero, Ian. Instead of engaging in ad hominems, just give me a brief but plausible explanation of how you plan to assemble the evidence concerning any crimes the Begum might have committed in Syria, from your vantage point here in the UK.

            And then answer this equally simple conundrum: The UK already spent fifteen years showing the Begum a ‘better future’ before she went off to join the bestial stone-age cult. Precisely what is it that you are planning to show her when she comes back, that she didn’t see before she left? Feel free to go into as much detail as you like.

            I promise you, if your answers even meet a not-very-testing standard of “pretty half-arsed, but not entirely stupid”, then I will stop posting my idiotic cliches.

          • Ian

            I don’t have to give random commentators any explanation or provide any evidence to supply your chuntering demands. There is a principle here, which Gary Younge, Craig, even George Osborne of all people, enunciated. But you will continue with your hysteria, demanding this and that, and entirely missing the point.

  • Republicofscotland

    Well wouldn’t you know HRH the billionaire with the gold piano, who’ll be whisked away to safety, if Brexit leads to rioting and unrest, is bitching about having to paying her business taxes at Balmoral, at the new Scottish higher rate.

    Andy Wightman and Tommy Sheppard, MSP and MP respectively, both were astounded at how little the billionaire paid in busines tax on her sporting estate in Scotland.

    It’s not as if Balmoral cost the current queen a fortune to buy, the miser, John Camden Neild, left all, his saving to Queen Victoria who along with Prince Albert bought Balmoral with the misers generous gift.

    432 landowners own half of Scotland private estates, they know fine well, they’ll need to pay a bit more and be held more to account after independence.

      • An Arkhos

        I refer to her as Auld Liz, if I refer to her at all.

        Don’t you think it was majestic the way she housed those made homeless by the Grenfell tragedy in her ridiculously big house in London? And the way she liquidated her art collection to support those who have been driven to food banks by our broken economic system? Such compassion!

  • Spencer Eagle

    ‘Royal Navy had evacuated the Manchester bomber en route back to the UK after his Western backed terrorist jaunt in Libya’… It’s got to be asked, did the Manchester bomber, Salman Abedi, bring the explosives used to kill 22 out of Libya with aboard HMS Enterprise? How did he make his way from the disembarkation point in Malta to the UK?

    • Stonky

      It’s got to be asked…

      The one obvious question that never has been and never will be asked by any British journalist of any British politician:

      Did the British authorities ever at any time finance, arm, train, or in any other way provide support to Salman Abedi?

      The reason for this is that the journalists already know the answer, and ordinary people are not allowed to know the answer

        • Yr Hen Gof

          I’m presuming your question is rhetorical, since I’d judge your good self and 90% of those posting regularly to this blog know the answer to be: no, we don’t, they are entirely corrupted.

          • Herbie

            Hard to believe, but there actually was a shift. They used at least to present alternative views, albeit within safe parameters.

            So, for the Iraq war, it was OK to argue on telly against the war so long as you said it was for oil.

            That was the OK radical view.

            But since, there’s not even that. They’re all singing from the same hymn sheet all across the English speaking world. The five eyes world, if you like.

            And then you’ve got the whole II and ISC thing.

            They’re on an Information War footing.

            You could probably date it to Wiggy at The Guardian breaking those hard drives. Kinda symbolic, eh.

            And then The Guardian was taken over by American feminist students.

            And you don’t get to say anything they don’t like.

            But still, they nag you endlessly for money.

          • wonky

            @Herbie..
            “the same hymn sheet all across the English speaking world..”

            It’s all across the NATO world. All of Europe is supposed to dance to this very tune.

  • Sharp Ears

    Ms Soubry is running the LBC phone in today but don’t bother trying to get on. She has a blocked switchboard poor thing.

    She sees no good reason to stand in a by-election. Of course not, Anna!

  • Sharp Ears

    Dominic Grieve threatens to resign. Go. Good riddance. Get on with it.

    He was the Attorney General who refused to grant an inquest for Dr Kelly. A judicial review of his decision failed.

    Also Mesdames Greening and Rudd are on the possibles list.

  • pasha

    Thank you, Craig, for this drop of compassion and logic. I suspect, however, that it will fall into the torrent of hatred pumped out by the insane propagandists and be condemned or ignored.

  • JohninMK

    Just in case this hasn’t already been posted. It is the EP unanimously saying that the word ‘colony’ with reference to Gibraltar, is unacceptable whilst the Commission, under pressure from Spain, insists on it. The £52 is for a Schengen visa. As one of the UK’s most popular tourist destinations Spain seems to be trying to shoot itself in the foot. Turkey could do well out of the current situation.This is from yesterday.

    British tourists travelling to continental Europe may need to pay £52 for a visa in a few weeks after Spanish demands over the status of Gibraltar again derailed Brussels’ preparations for Brexit.

    Agreement on legislation exempting UK nationals from requiring the travel permit is mired in a dispute over whether the British overseas territory should be described as a “colony” in the EU’s statute book. Spain has insisted, with the reluctant support of the other 26 member states, that a footnote containing the contentious description of the disputed territory is added to the legislation.

    But on Wednesday morning the European parliament rejected the language proposed by the council of the European Union, the body that represents the member states. It is the third time the member states’ proposal has been sent back by MEPs and casts doubt over whether the legislation can be salvaged in the next few weeks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/britons-may-need-52-visa-to-visit-mainland-europe-after-brexit

  • pete

    I have just read this on Reddit, in spite of that it seems to be to be full of wisdom, I think if you think about Shamima’s case rationally you will find it hard to deny its validity.
    Yes, individuals have an obligation to behave in a civilised way but nation states must too. Sorry it’s a cut and paste affair, the whole post so I am not accused of being biased in the selection:

    “Meh, just going to copy pasta this because this whole affair should be worrying people and not for the reasons that people are worried.
    Revoking citizenship is unheard of for good reason. Next time the UK wants to deport someone undesirable they’ve just opened the door to other countries saying no and revoking their own citizens rights to return. There is a reason why this isn’t done, Javid knows this and knows he will lose in the courts so really this is just red meat for the more and more right wing Tory base.
    Secondly, she was born in the UK, raised in the UK and educated in the UK. At the end of the day – she isn’t Syria’s responsibility and unless they plan to detain her she is the UK’s responsibility and the UK should live up to it’s responsibility and look to detain her or rehabilitate her.
    You have Huntley’s and Bellfields sitting in jail in the UK. They are infinitely worse than Shamima and are guilty of actual murder and murderous crimes. They were however given due process, a trial and a sentencing. Shamima has received no due process and yet the UK is punishing her. She deserves to be punished and held accountable – but after she is investigated and charged, not summarily with no scope to defend herself.
    If you don’t value due process then fair enough – but I can tell you it’s the difference between utter authoritarianism or worse, and a civilised society. Due process is one of the most important rights we have but it hasn’t been afforded to Shamima.
    Finally – she was groomed as a 13/14 year old, married off at 15. She has never been outside that bubble since and is now most likely quite indoctrinated. She is surrounded by extremely vicious people who would murder her in her sleep if she spoke out.
    She should be brought back to the UK and ultimately will be when the Home Offices little dog and pony show is over. It should annoy you that they are breaking international law and their own guidelines to show off how right wing they are.
    She should be investigated and her culpability established. Was she willing, was she groomed, how did it happen what is the context and at that point society can decide how she should be punished.
    This entire affair is just another embarrassment for the UK and honestly the attitude on reddit has been really disappointing. People refusing to scratch even a small amount below the surface and making up their mind without showing much of an understanding of what may have happened in this instance.”

    • freddy

      Thank you for that pete. “Why was she radacalised?” seems to be an important question.I think that the iniquity of our government is a great recruiter, is it the soul [sic] driver?

    • Jo1

      It’s more than embarrassing Pete. It’s horrifying that a government minister has allowed this case to dominate the UK media for days on end. In the process he has also chosen to set due process aside.

      The absolute bile being posted online is vile and it is racist.

      I don’t understand why this case is different from the other 400 or so where people have returned from Syria, been taken into custody and investigated accordingly. Why were they not front page news? Why is this young woman not being treated the same way?

      Why did this case involve media interviews where the person was closely questioned by journalists? Who were the men with her? Who set all this up? Is she actually free in this refugee camp or if not who is holding her and, again, who has been setting up all these media interviews with cameras present?

      I actually don’t know what to believe to be honest. But having now seen the toxic hatred the case has provoked I don’t think I’ll ever feel clean again. What a truly ugly place this is.

    • Stonky

      At the end of the day – she isn’t Syria’s responsibility and unless they plan to detain her she is the UK’s responsibility…

      One small but gaping hole in this argument is that the Syrians aren’t being given the option to detain her. Along with all the other stone-age cultists now busy making their escape, she’s in a camp on the Turkish border protected by Kurdish and American (and no doubt British) forces. And should the Syrians make any attempt to capture or detain her or any other of the stone-age cultists, we would be hearing endless caterwauling across the whole of the Western media about Butcher Assad and his atrocities and his barrel bombs and his chemical attacks.

      …she should be investigated and her culpability established.

      Another small but gaping hole in the argument. When is a single one of you apologists and excusemongers going to gird your loins and provide some remotely plausible explanation as to how you propose to ‘investigate her’ and ‘establish her culpability’ from your vantage point here in the UK?

  • Hatuey

    Same old same old on here… seemingly intelligent people lured into rigged debates about Britain and its role in the world. This week the focus is on some stupid girl who played a totally trivial part in events in a country far, far away.

    You know, if anyone has been radicalised and involved themselves in terrorist violence, it’s us. By “us” , I mean you, me, and just about everybody in this country to varying degrees. We’re up there with the most radicalised and violent terrorists in the history of mankind.

    Systematically destroying once civilised countries like Iraq, Libya, and Syria comes with a price tag. The immediate price, something a 5 year old would grasp, is that you remove yourself from any serious discussion on the rights and wrongs of terrorism, warfare, and a bunch of other things

    And despite that, so many people on here want to talk about this junk as if it’s serious. Honestly, get into gardening or something. This stuff just makes you all look so stupid. You should be choking on subjects like this instead of chewing them and spitting them in our faces.

    Craig Murray, do the world a favour and close down these discussions.

    • Jo1

      SE
      Yes, he was on Peston last night where he learned he was proposing something that was illegal. There was a lot of stuttering, as you can imagine. Serves him right. Made himself look a complete fool.

  • Charles Bostock

    Could any reasonable person possibly object to the UK introducing laws against hate speech on the internet in the same way as President Macron has said France is going to?

    I would be particularly interested to hear Laguerre’s take on President Macron’s declared intention (since he lives in France – in Paris – and often tells us what’s going on there).

    • Glasshopper

      What about the hate speech towards the Syrian Arab Republic by the BBC?

      Are we going to lock them up for openly supporting Sunnifascist terror gangs against a multi-faith secular state?

      And of course Macron, another supporter of Sunnifascism who’s helped destroy hundreds of thousands of Syrians.

      There’s a cell waiting for that little creep in The Hague.

    • Republicofscotland

      Indeed Charles, you seem to take a keen interest in French news. Tell me Charles, no its not an Irak question, but what do you think of schools in France taking the step of referring to mum and dad as parent1 and parent2?

      • Charles Bostock

        I will think varefully about the totally inconnected question you have asked me, Republicofscotlandn and getr back to you in due course. But don’t hold your breath as it might take a little time.

        But to revert to the real thelme for just a moment, I wonder whether you’d agree with me that the anti-semotes and Israel-haters are going through an extremely sticky patch at the moment?

        Fo instance, in the Labour Party the leadership probably thought that if it laid low for a while the wagon would move on, everyone would forget about it and after a while the anti-semites would crawl out of their hole again. But no, the opposite has happened and the anti-semites are really on the run.

        Similarly in France : the authorities have got wise to the tricks the anti-semites get up to, dressing their anti-semitism up as anti-Zionism and/or anti-Israelism. That is why there’s going to be laws in France penalising hate speech on the internet, there’s nothing left for the anti-semites but to choke on the words they would have liked to publish.

        So all in all, I should say that the swamp is slowly being drained and all decent people should be very pleased.

        • Laguerre

          Certainly you’re right. What right do Palestinians have to object to their own genocide? They should lie down and die.

        • Republicofscotland

          Charles.

          Anti-Semitism, has no place in society on that we can surely agree. However the lines become blurred when and this is surely one of the many controversies surrounding the matter, that to criticise Israeli actions, is often construed and twisted to being put across as anti-Semitic, when its not.

        • Sharp Ears

          Are there two of you? I ask because some of your stuff is perfectly typed whilst others are full of typos.
          eg
          ‘I will think varefully about the totally inconnected question you have asked me, Republicofscotlandn and getr back to you in due course. But don’t hold your breath as it might take a little time.’

          Do you have a Specsavers there?

          • Republicofscotland

            SE.

            It’s probably more than likely the CB handle is used by several, we shall be kind and call them commentors with a particular agenda. 😀

        • J

          From July last year:

          https://twitter.com/AsaWinstanley/status/1020640114119249920

          “A warning to Labour activists on what to expect to happen next in the Labour “anti-Semitism crisis” witch hunt. Plus how this sabotage can be defeated.

          Something the right & pro-Israel groups are going to try at some point -probably as a final resort – is to manufacture what they’ll claim is an “exodus of Jewish members” from Labour.

          Expect a group of high profile right-wing and/or pro-Israel MPs, councillors or members to resign from Labour in protest. Don’t fall for this.

          In reality, this will be just another attempt to sabotage Labour: possibly settling up a new “moderate” splinter party in the process, using false claims of anti-Semitism as their totemic issue.

          Israel lobby groups tried this years ago as part of their costly legal assault against the University and College Union. See my 2012 court report. The false claim was that “Jewish members have left UCU in droves”

          That case failed on every count, with the judge trouncing it as “wreckage” and “an impermissible attempt to achieve a political end by litigious means”

          The Israel lobby had to pay UCU’s court costs, thought to amount to £100s of Ks. But for a while, it generated some very bad headlines for UCU, and it achieved a sort of victory in the sense that discussion of academic boycott of Israel was severely chilled.

          Not coincidentally, the leading force in the case against UCU was one of the anti-Palestinian groups currently assaulting Labour: the Jewish Leadership Council — then led by none other than Jeremy Newmark.

          Newmark was singled out by the judge for giving particularly “preposterous,” “arrogant” and “disturbing” evidence which showed contempt for freedom of speech. He was basically called a liar by the judge — giving “untrue” evidence.

          After later being quietly kicked out of the JLC for fiddling his expenses (as we learned only this year), Newmark went on to reinvent himself as a Labour Party activist and councillor — as yet another way to defend Israeli apartheid.

          He re-founded the moribund Jewish Labour Movement in February 2016, installing a full-time director for the first time by hiring her away from the Israeli embassy (Ella Rose).

          The JLM — in close coordination with the Israeli embassy — has been a leading force in the last almost three years of defamation of Labour as an “antisemitic party”.

          And so we are where we are now.

          I’ve been privately predicting to comrades for months they will try the same “Jewish members are leaving in droves” nonsense in Labour which they did in UCU.

          But now there were some early signs of this actually beginning to happen this week: a) John Mann claimed there was a “continuous roll call of brilliant Jewish activists resigning from the Labour Party”. No names of course.

          b) The JLM’s Adam Langleben claimed Labour is now “institutionally racist” because it refuses to adopt a rule that says it’s “anti-Semitic” for Palestinians to call their own oppression racist.

          c) An anonymous Labour source briefed The Evening Standard that “a number of Jewish Labour MPs” may quit Labour and stand as independents in defence of Margaret Hodge’s slander of Corbyn as a “fucking anti-Semite and racist”.

          Again the most important thing is: DO NOT FALL FOR IT. This is a *political disagreement* above all about the nature of the new, socialist Labour Party. Don’t fall into the sectarian agitation trap. It’s an attempt to sabotage the party and the leadership.

          The lesson for Labour: the only way to defeat these dirty tactics is by fighting them, head on. They can not be accommodated or compromised with.”

    • Laguerre

      Macron is lazy, as you might expect; he doesn’t want to fight The Lobby, when he has other matters on his plate.

      It’s to be noted that the recent spike in anti-semitism in France is associated with the gilets jaunes, who are otherwise so widely supported on this blog.

      • Republicofscotland

        Laguerre.

        We must be careful in branding the Yellow Vests as anti-Semitic, their cause is surely one of economics. It is easy for certain factions to infiltrate and present themselves as genuine Yellow Vest activists, but to act and protest in a anti-Semitic way.

        This tactic is a very well used one infiltrate and discredit. Yes the Yellow Vests have caused damage and disruption, how else do you attract the attention of a neoliberal such as Macron?

        The old adage of you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs springs to mind.

        I just wish the people of Britain had the courage of their convictions that the French possess, maybe we wouldn’t be in sheer turmoil if they had.

        • Laguerre

          RoS, the association between gilets jaunes and anti-semitism was something observed, not my invention. But it’s not surprising. gilet jaunism is basically nativist, and any bloody foreigners are to be criticised.

          • Republicofscotland

            Laguerre.

            I’m not questioning the veracity of your comment, I’m saying we must keep an open mind that there’s the possibility that the Yellow Vests have been infiltrated to discredit them.

            I recall a similar act hijacking the movement in London.

    • Stonky

      Could any reasonable person possibly object to the UK introducing laws against hate speech on the internet in the same way as President Macron has said France is going to?

      We already have laws against hate speech on the internet, and we already have people in jail for breaking them.

      If your actual question is “Could any reasonable person possibly object to the UK introducing laws against criticizing Israel on the internet in the same way as that repulsive little toad President Macron has said France is going to?” then the answer is yes.

  • freddy

    I went to the political compass ( https://www.politicalcompass.org ) recently; It’s been a long time, I thought my world view had undergone drastic shifts over the last few years. I answered all the questions as honestly as I could, yet little changed. (Aware the questions were framing my responses). But I was still slightly more saintly than Gandhi 😉

    Why am I saying this? The interesting thing is the vertical axis – freedom versus despotism – not the horizontal axis (Left to Right). That is my axis of evil.

    • freddy

      The Left does indeed have a monopoly on tolerance and empathy. Or at least they keep signaling it 😉

      • Republicofscotland

        Add to that with the IG, lauded in some quarters as the great hope able to fix broken Britain, and to oppose the nasty old Trot Corbyn.

        However if you look a bit closer at IG, particularly its recent Tory members, well things don’t appear so hopeful.

        Anna Sourby, has voted against laws promoting equality and human rights. Heidi Allen, voted against the right to remain for EU nationals. Sarah Wollaston, voted against raising welfare benefits inline with with prices, she also voted against a bankers bonus tax.

  • Glasshopper

    No mention of the tens of thousands of Jihadists holed up in Idlib province. Indeed, the US/UK has been threatening Assad and Russia whenever they make moves to clear them out.

    This is the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about, but they too will wish to come “home” eventually.

  • Republicofscotland

    Interesting to see Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, agree with Craig’s position on Shamima Begum that it would be very harsh indeed if Britain left her stateless.

    • Jo1

      Yes RoS. Unlike our Home Secretary, Corbyn has this crazy idea that it’s best to apply due process to such matters. Naturally he’s getting pelters for it.

      • Republicofscotland

        Jo1.

        I’m not a fan of Labour in general, however all credit to Corbyn for sticking his neck out on this highly contentious case. Pity Corbyn wasn’t this decisive on Brexit over the last two years.

        • Jo1

          Same for me RoS although I keep a close eye on politics across all the Parties.

          I have to say I’ve never witnessed anything like the persecution of Corbyn since he got the leadership. It’s been brutal, and that’s just from his own never mind the media.

          On Brexit I don’t know how else he could have played it. I only checked out the other night just how many Labour constituencies voted Leave in Eng. I was shocked. So I now understand why he wasn’t crazy about going against the overall result. He’s got his pro Remain MPs threatening all sorts and his Leave constituency MPs threatening the same.

          While I blame Cameron for the whole mess, ultimately I blame all MPs for letting the actual Referendum Bill pass without at least a definition of what would constitute a decisive vote. How could they have let that happen? It beggars belief that a decision like this could pass on 51.9% of a vote that Cameron said was advisory and “not legally binding”!

  • bob

    UK Column

    @ukcolumn
    5h5 hours ago
    More
    Replying to @UKGovScotland
    Just to give Scotland a head’s up that Tony Blair now back driving EU Defence Union and using @TheIndGroup as new power base where members already declared war on @Labour @Conservatives Scotland already subsumed into EU Defence Union unknown to voters

  • Republicofscotland

    Controversial or not? Could or should Shamima Begum fal, into this category?

    Home Office paying for Jihadi brides returning back to the UK at state of art clinic. Out of 400 jihadists who returned to the UK, just 40 have been prosecuted, with the vast majority placed in rehabilitation schemes instead. The Home Office has declined to reveal the cost of its various projects – likely to run into tens of millions of pounds or the number of jihadists treated on them.

  • Sharp Ears

    QT tonight BBC1 10.45 from Chester.

    The full list is:

    Mel Stride, Conservative MP and financial secretary to the Treasury
    Andy McDonald, Labour MP and shadow transport secretary
    John Barnes, former footballer who is writing a book about discrimination
    Ella Whelan, columnist for Spiked magazine
    Chris Leslie, Independent MP for Nottingham East (formerly Labour)

    Doncha love the new attribution for Leslie. Hope somebody asks him if he putting himself up for a by election.

    • Ken Kenn

      So many interview sofas and not enough interviewees to fill them.

      Peston will run out of croissants if that lot descend on his ‘show’

      It’s good that some have twigged that in a first past the post system you can only have one candidate per Constituency.

      I heard a rumour (only a rumour ) that if a GE is called these MP’s will be asked to stand in Labour seats where the Tories are a close second and not vice versa.

      Heidi Allen has already said she ” doesn’t want too many defectors because it might trigger a GE.

      What with Grieve and Greening threatening to resign not before a no deal happens but after tells you about the intentions of this group of alleged Independents.

      The aim is simple – to prevent a Corbyn led government or Coalition with the SNP.

      It’s a simple as that.

      Deal or no deal.

      They don’t care.

    • Ken Kenn

      True.

      And we have yet to see any videos photographs of Yulia and Sergei enjoying a day out in Sunny Salisbury before the alleged incident.

      Duck feeding – eating, drinking and making merry.

      Basically I think they have been Statenapped.

      Whether they are still alive I don’t know.

      Also we have yet to see/hear the Inquest report on Dawn as to what she died of?

      Interestingly Dawn’s parents said the medics said Dawn’s organs ( kidneys liver etc ) were not damaged.

      Novichok (in the amounts alluded to) would certainly do some damage to organs.

      All pawns in a game of which we can only guess about.

      • John Goss

        And according to hospital reports there was no nerve agent. They were poisoned by Fentanyl. What they have been given since is anybody’s guess.

      • Mary Paul

        They met the boys and fed the ducks in the park and the boys’ parents, who reported it first to the press (daily mirror), said they were shown cctv footage so videos do exist, we have just not been shown them. The duck feeding incident is omitted from all the official timelines.

  • N_

    All flights were suspended at Dublin Airport today for 30 minuts because of a “confirmed drone sighting”. As before at Gatwick and Heathrow, there has been a complete absence of supporting photographs, film, and statements from named witnesses.

    • Dave

      Its blackmail to encourage purchase of anti-drone technology from those flying, real or imagined, the drones!

    • Paul Barbara

      @ N_ February 21, 2019 at 22:59
      The critters flogging the anti-drone defences can very easily do a ‘False Flag’ provocation, with video evidence and eye-witnesses.
      And with complicity from the ‘Security Services’.

  • BigMac

    Craig fresh out of Pakistan and being the humanitarian one would have expected him to write an article about the dire history and present fate of Asia Bibi, the Christian mother accused of blasphemy against the Koran and near dead.
    No Shamima Begum the 3x ISIS bride in Syria is the Chosen one for entry to the Western Paradise for women.

    • Republicofscotland

      Actually BigMac, Craig might not have penned a thread on the matter, but the commentors did leave several good comments on the matter a few months back.

      So the matter has been talked about in here.

  • Sharp Ears

    Chuka gets around.

    ‘Ten days before Britain’s deadline to leave the EU, our panel of pro-Remain politicians, including MPs Owen Smith, Lisa Nandy and Chuka Umunna, with the Guardian’s Anushka Asthana, discuss what’s next for the 48%.

    Over the course of Brexit negotiations, Remainers have expressed feelings of disillusionment and discontent. While seven Labour MPs have resigned to form The Independent Group, Nigel Farage threatens to form a new pro-Brexit party if the departure is delayed.

    Is a second referendum still on the agenda? What will The Independent Group offer pro-Remain voters that Labour cannot? What could a future relationship with the EU look like? And what does it mean to be pro-EU in the Spring of 2019?Brexit. What next for remainers?

    £20 to find out.
    https://membership.theguardian.com/event/brexit-what-next-for-remainers-56638708903?

    LOL

  • BrianFujisan

    Me on peter Gabriel Fbook –

    I Think Peter Should Explain. Re the Branson Sham Concert … ” Either he AGREED, or Branson used his Name. Peter should really be on the Side of Roger … Not Corporate Billionaires.

    I have seen Peter Live Four Times…I won’t say Branson cost this fan YET.

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