When is a British Person Not British? 430

The attitude to immigrants which is betrayed by the stripping of citizenship from Shamima Begum is truly appalling. A British citizen, born in the UK, is deemed to be a citizen of another country they have never seen, because their immigrant parents came from there. To refuse to accept first generation Britons are Britons, as in Windrush, was bad enough. To claim that second generation Britons are not British, but rather citizens of where their ancestors “came from”, is racism pure and simple.

Begum is not a sympathetic figure. Savid Javid could not have found an easier target for his macho display of vindictiveness, guaranteed to win plaudits from the bigots whose votes Javid needs for his looming Tory leadership bid. Javid knows full well his decision will eventually be overturned by the courts, but he has already achieved his political objective of personal self-aggrandisement.

I do not know everything Begum has personally been doing in Syria and to what extent she has been culpable in any of the crimes of the Saudi backed jihadist group Daesh, originally launched by the CIA as a counterweight to Shia influence in Iraq. Begum, as with other members of the ISIS community in Syria, ought initially to be subject to any legal proceedings by the Syrian authorities on behalf of the Syrian people against whom such dreadful crimes were committed. If of no interest to the Syrian justice system or once any sentence has been completed, she should be returned to the UK and then subject to investigation as to whether any UK crimes were committed. All these processes need to take into account that she arrived in Syria as a minor, has been subject to indoctrination, and may well have severe mental health issues.

In a situation where the government is falling over itself to bring members of the UK-funded jihadist support group the White Helmets to the UK, having no claim to British citizenship; in a situation where jihadist activity in Syria was entirely dependent on finance, supplies and air support from the US, UK, and its Gulf State allies; in a situation where the Royal Navy had evacuated the Manchester bomber en route back to the UK after his Western backed terrorist jaunt in Libya; in a situation where the Manchester, Westminster and London Bridge terrorists all had extensive pre-existing relationships with the British security services; in all these circumstances, the decision to crack down to general applause on a bewildered East London child is a sickening example of the lack of ethics in modern politics.


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430 thoughts on “When is a British Person Not British?

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    • Rod

      Two very pertinent and to the point back to back articles. This Home Secretary is in a race to try to show he is stronger and more stable than his boss in readiness for her eventual departure and it’s already proving to have the same degree of success.

      It’s almost akin to a red line scenario that he will have to back-track on in due course. He sounded very iffy and unsure giving his answers in the Commons today.

      • Jo1

        He didn’t come over as strong or stable last night on Peston when it was pointed out he could not legally render the young woman stateless.

        It’s actually quite shocking that he’s run with allowing this case to be played out in the media. It’s been one obscene poll after another in the press and social media is awash with bile about it.

        I’d actually thought there was a procedure in place for when “fighters” and their various “others” returned here. I’m sure a number of men have returned into the hands of police, have they not? Why not the same for this young woman?

        If nothing else, what about this helpless baby?

    • philw

      Not ‘pathetic’, terrifying.

      If the Home Secretary at the stroke of a pen can remove citizenship where does it end? Craig’s citizenship maybe as ‘disloyal’ to the UK? Or Corbyn’s to stop him becoming PM?

  • Republicofscotland

    According to media reports, Bangladesh’s Foreign minister has said with regards to Shamima Begum, that there’s nothing to discuss she’s not coming to Bangladesh.

    The other route pushed forward is that her partner is Dutch, and as long as he recognises the child as his own, she could acquire a Dutch passport.

    • Jo1

      As far as I can see, RoS, there’s no clear link with Bangladesh. She can’t legally be left stateless.

      I think, personally, she’s been very stupid in allowing her child to be exploited through all this media exposure. And, of course, the UK media has reminded us all just how ugly a place this has become.

    • Komodo

      She’d stand a better chance if she hadn’t gone to support a terrorist organisation with which we are effectively at war.
      A message needs to be sent to people thinking of doing likewise. It will also save us tens of thousands of pounds in not having to recover her, process her and no doubt subsidise her bent (IMO) lawyer. Humanitarian is one thing, self-destructive is quite another.

      • kbbucks

        I think you will find you are at war with the Syrian state, not the terrorists. You would have saved yourselves an absolute fortune by not bankrolling & arming the terrorists in the first place.

        • Garth Carthy

          It’s a bitter pill for swallow, but we in the West are also terrorists i.e. we have illegally invaded foreign countries and killed hundreds of thousands of innocents. That doesn’t excuse the extreme Islamic and other terrorist atrocities but nevertheless, we must be extremely stupid not expect reciprocal terrorism.

          • Michael McNulty

            True. Nobody radicalised more Muslims than the war criminals Bush and Blair. No imam could hold a candle to either.

          • Komodo

            Speaking as someone who would whistle happily as he deprived Blair of his passport and sent him to Spitzbergen to be eaten by bears, I’m not really concerned with the history of this, deplorable as it is. The point at issue is, do we want IS, pretty well on the run from its home territory, to insert murderers and their accomplices into our own society? I understand that some may, but permit me to question their motives.

        • Komodo

          I think you should immediately contact the MoD and inform them that our forces are bombing the wrong people. Since 2015 UK ordnance has been landing almost exclusively on IS and al-Nusra targets.

          I assume that by your use of ‘you’ that you are not a citizen of a coalition country. Russia, perhaps? If so, while the murky details of our support for groups seen to be acting our interest are almost as obscure as yours, I would caution you against calling too much attention to the colour of our kettle.

          • Tom Welsh

            “Since 2015 UK ordnance has been landing almost exclusively on IS and al-Nusra targets”.

            How do you know that, Komodo? Just tell us what your reliable sources are – other than UK government statements and the MSM which echoes them faithfully.

      • nevermind

        off course a now 19 year old woman who has lost two children and just has given birth to a third child, is so much easier to make an example off than some white helmet organiser, or any of the Daesh/IS officers under largess and Israeli protection on the Golan.
        First they came for the disabled, then those on benefit who have mental instabilities, then it a 19 year old Bangladeshi mother, and soon it will be the mixed age pensioners, in April actually, who will be asked to turn to an ill thought out, badly functioning U*C regime carried out by multinational service organisations who couldn’t stir their own coffee. And then they will come for EU nationals and their offspring, Anglo Saxons, approx. 80% of us have AS genes, Normans, Celts and Viking, leaving only the establishment and self serving politicians to tend to sheep and cows and horses

        Did I forget anyone? Oh yes the Irish, who might, like the Scots, live in a united peaceful Ireland/Scotland watching the English establishment shearing their sheep.

        She will come back to England, not necessarily to a UK, unless killed by another high tech, low profile hellfire missile from a drone paid for by dumb gits like us.

        • SW

          The point is that she isn’t Bangladeshi; she’s as English as Javid. East Pakistan, West Pakistan: what’s the difference? This is an imbecilic decision and someone should beat him round his baldy head to see if they can get any sense in. And then deport him.

      • SW

        Perhaps you people have forgotten that anti Islam sentiment is high in the UK, because of propaganda to drum up support for Blair’s illegal war. Javid has done much more damage to the UK than this girl.

        • Coldish

          Good points, SW. If Begum can be deprived of UK nationality, so can Javid. Might not be a bad thing.

      • Deb O'Nair

        “a terrorist organisation with which we are effectively at war.”

        Only in the pages of the corporate media.

      • Mary Paul

        There was plenty of coverage of ISIS atrocities in the British press at the time she went. She was not ignorant of their actions.

        • Shadiya Kingerlee

          To be fair, it would not be unreasonable to think that the media in the UK push their own agenda/don’t tell the truth, and lets face it, they are behind the fanning of the rampant Islamaphobia that has been ongoing in the UK for some years now. If I were a groomed Muslim teenager I probably would have thought it was just more of the same.

          I mean, I’m not Labour voter or even a huge Corbyn fan, but I certainly don’t believe the BS about him being antisemitic. Yet according to the media, he might as well have one of those funny little moustaches, so popular in Germany in 1939….

      • Tom Welsh

        “She’d stand a better chance if she hadn’t gone to support a terrorist organisation with which we are effectively at war”.

        Rubbish, Komodo.

        The UK government supports and helps the US government in all things. And the US government invented, created, armed, equipped, fed, led, directed and sheltered ISIS (and Al Qaeda and all the rest of the related alphabet soup behind which the same terrorists hide).

        The UK government would like as many mugs as possible to believe that it is “at war” with ISIS. Whereas the reality is that ISIS is the West’s plausibly deniable lever for overthrowing Mr Assad’s legitimate, democratically-elected government and turning Syria into a chaotic, anarchic hell-hole like Libya – the better to steal its valuable resources out from under its people’s very feet.

  • Laura Sutherland

    Agree entirely, although I hate to say, Shamima may not realise, she is probably far better off anywhere other than in the hostile environment the UK offers.

  • Paul

    “To claim that second generation Britons are not British, but rather citizens of where their ancestors “came from”, is racism pure and simple.”

    Yup – that pretty much sums it up. This is obscene behaviour by the government. I hope the courts will correct it, but who knows these days.

    • michael norton

      Would it be racist for people in Briton to object to Romans slaughtering the British in Briton?
      Would it be racist for people in Poland to object to Germans slaughtering Polish people in Poland?
      Would it be racist of people in Syria to object to people from other lands coming to Syria, setting up Islamic State and slaughtering Syrians in Syria?

      Begum has gone to Syria to be included fully within the Islamic State, to take over and aid the slaughter and suppression of the Syrian people.
      Her husband did the same, he is apparently from The Netherlands.

      These terror people should be charged and tried in Syria where they committed their crimes against the State and people of Syria.
      It has almost nothing to do with The Netherlands or The United Kingdom.

      • flem

        Would it be racist to ignore that she was indoctrinated into a cult at 15 (teenagers frontal lobes are not fully developed yet – controls decision-making, ability to control impulses, empathy, etc), in order to brand her as one of those “terror people”?

      • Laguerre

        What are you going on about, norton? Craig’s statement was correct and laudable. Yours a non-sequitur.

      • Laguerre

        By the way, being put on trial in Syria means by the Damascus government, as there is no other formal sovereign govt. The Kurds are an autonomous region, Idlib a region in rebellion. I doubt if the Western powers would agree to that. In any case I’m sure she’ll be killed in error shortly by an errant British drone missile.

      • Deb O'Nair

        “Begum has gone to Syria to be included fully within the Islamic State, to take over and aid the slaughter and suppression of the Syrian people.”

        Which was also the objective of the US/UK/Israeli/French/Canadian/Australian/Jordanian/Turkish forces who were illegally operating in Syria.

      • Jo1

        Would it be helpful to highlight the hypocrisy of the UK, which committed funds, training and arms to groups affiliated to IS and al Qaeda in Syria, in order to impose regime change on Syria?

        You’ve kind of ignoring that.

  • Old Mark

    Complete virtue signalling nonsense from Craig here. He makes out that potentially exiling Begum to her ancestral Bangladesh is tantamount to sending her away to a faraway country about which she knows little. Pull the other one.

    I know Bethnal Green and the Bengali immigrants who’ve settled there in the last 45 years pretty well, having worked in the area for over 5 years, and having also worked closely with some of these ‘new EastEnders’ (the approved designation I think) -which is a lot more than Craig has done.

    Ask yourself one question- why, since the furore erupted, have the parents not appeared once on the media to ask for her safe return ? Why have they left all the special pleading to lawyers and ‘family representatives’ ?

    I’ll tell you why- it’s a sure bet that if they did, her mother at least would require a Bengali interpreter to understand the proceedings- and (I can say this with near 100% certainty) she’d undoubtedly need one to answer any questions that would be put to her.

    Shamima Begum’s mother tongue is Bengali; she has grown up in an area where that language is as commonly spoken as English; she will have many (perhaps dozens, given the usual size of families in Bangladesh) uncles, aunts and cousins in that country. Indeed, had she stayed in Bethnal Green rather than gone off to join IS in Syria four years ago, she might by now be ‘on holiday’ in her ancestral country and marrying one of these cousins, or a near neighbour from the family village.

    Drop the virtue signalling and get real.

    • nevermind

      what if her family speaks perfect English? and Bangladeshi, and Hindfi, you old prejudiced fool, your suppositions here become tiring, next thing you’ll be singing the Horst Wessel song.

      • Old Mark

        Hello no-mind

        I know from direct experience of that immigrant group that the odds on her parents (particularly the mother) speaking perfect English are about 100/1 against.

        Nice sly reference to the Horst Wessel song there (he writes why practicing his goose-step).

          • freddy

            Interesting viewpoint – believe everything you’re told and disregard all personal experience and sense of self. You may need more help than Shamima

          • Mary Paul

            Not really, because her mother must have limited engagement with everyday life in the UK. And presumably they chiefly if not exclusively spoke Bangladashi at home. So what social and personal values has she been raised with and are they compatible with those enshrined in British law? The father of Amina Abase is a supporter of Anjem Choudhary. There was some speculation at the time that all three girls might expect to have arranged marriages.

            TV cook Nadiya Hussein is a second generation Bangladeshi. At the age of the age of 19, she was married Abdal Hussain, whom she had only met once before, in an arranged marriage in a traditional ceremony in Bangladesh. Fortunately for her it turned out OK, but it could equally have not and she has said she does not want arranged marriages for her children. But her father dictated what happened. She is 34 now so this was only 15 years ago and I assume was what the runaways in Samina Begum’s group had to look forward to.

          • Jo1

            Blimey, Mary Paul, you don’t do irony do you?

            “So what social and personal values has she been raised with and are they compatible with those enshrined in British law?”

            You were knocking yourself out yesterday to defend the rights of others to support the illegal actions of another foreign government. Different religion of course! How very balanced of you. Not.

            And what the blazes has a TV chef got to do with this?

        • Jo1

          You “know” very little if you cannot understand that her family would probably be vilified and even put at risk if they appeared on TV. These lunatics posting their bile would probably burn their bloody house down!

          White people use lawyers. Why are you so agitated that this family has one? I find your reaction and other commitments horribly racist and breathtakingly arrogant.

          You claim you “know”. You don’t. You’re just expressing a view, like others, and a deeply racist one at that.

      • Old Mark

        Sharp Ears- wrong, that’s the father of Amira, another Bethnal Green runaway (non Bengali, possibly Yemeni/Somali – and thus it would be extremely difficult to prevent HER return).

        Note to Nevermind – the standard of English shown by Amira’s father in that interview is likely comparable to the English competency Shamira’s father would have- and probably a good deal better than the English skills possessed by Begum’s mother.

          • andic

            The language skills of the family are relevant to his point about ability to live in the ancestral home country. It is a bit weak but he infers that if the mother can’t speak English, the daughter must be able to speak Bengali.

    • Kempe

      ” Ask yourself one question- why, since the furore erupted, have the parents not appeared once on the media to ask for her safe return ? Why have they left all the special pleading to lawyers and ‘family representatives’ ?

      I’ll tell you why- it’s a sure bet that if they did, her mother at least would require a Bengali interpreter to understand the proceedings- and (I can say this with near 100% certainty) she’d undoubtedly need one to answer any questions that would be put to her. ”

      Well the girl’s mother died of lung cancer shortly before Shamima left for Syria which might make things a little awkward. Prior to that she was bringing her daughter up by herself. I’m guessing that she’d need more than an interpreter.

    • Deb O'Nair

      Who uses a phrase like “virtue signalling”? I would like to hear Noam Chomsky’s opinion on the corrosive effect that these meaningless catchphrases have on meaningful debate.

      It seems that anyone willing to take a principled stand and support someone with a moral argument can be instantly dismissed and denigrated by turning the tables on the speaker and accusing them of having morally suspect motives. Old Mark takes this further and also suggests that CM is simply making things up, no doubt to further render any meaningful debate pointless.

      Once Old Mark has dismissed CM’s points with his linguistic shortcuts and false accusations he then spews forth his thinly veiled racist tropes whilst hiding behind generalisations (based on 5 years experience of working in Bethnal Green) and his own false assertions (which he is “undoubtedly” and “near 100%” certain of being “a sure bet”) and ends by exhorting CM to drop the virtue signalling. A nasty display of racist bigotry thinly disguised as a response to CM’s post.

      • Ian

        ‘Virtue signalling’ has long been an alt right term. Funnily enough, they are usually the ones who like to parade their ‘virtues’, such as nationalism, racism, prejudice, intolerance. etc

        • glenn_nl

          I put it down to projection. Right wing types have very little in the way of virtue, so they project that their political opponents are similarly lacking. Any expression of or appeal to virtue is an empty gesture for a right-winger, so they assume the same must be true when anyone else does it. That’s why it’s “virtue signalling” – to them, that’s all it ever could be.

      • Old Mark

        A nasty display of racist bigotry thinly disguised as a response to CM’s post.

        Bingo!- out come the usual accusations- to which the only sensible response is DILLIGAF!

        BTW Deb O’Nair- on Peston earlier tonight a poll was quoted which claimed that 76% of respondents do not want Begum to be returned to this country. People such as yourself may be in the majority on this comment thread, but you are a pretty small minority elsewhere.
        Sadly I think the most likely outcome of this case is that she will at some point be secretly ushered back to the UK, and (like the partner of the Soham murderer) be given a new identity and secure housing at great public expense. Bangladesh will play a waiting game (her right to citizenship of her ancestral country will lapse on her 21st birthday unless it is exercised) and whoever is the Home Sec at the time will be forced to backtrack (as happened to the Afghan hijackers who landed at Stansted in Feb, and who Straw promised at the time would never be allowed to settle in the UK).

        • zoot

          “A nasty display of racist bigotry ”

          pitiful attempt to project your own persona onto others.

        • Deb O'Nair

          “Bingo!- out come the usual accusations”

          You must do this quite a lot then. Also it was not an accusation but an observation.

          With regard to popular opinion; you can make a majority of the population support literally anything if you repeat it constantly and do not represent other viewpoints, as if the case with the vast majority of the corporate media coverage on this subject. Once that’s achieved then it’s a self-reinforcing cycle of ignorance and intolerance.

  • giyane

    The UK does not acknowledge its funding, political protection nor its training of jihadist groups in proxy wars around the world. This British girl has presumably been told by her British Muslim friends that Britain supports proxy jihadists and that is unfortunate because it is true, but it is not the public version of the truth. The Home secretary , like Theresa May before him, operates the public version of the truth which is that this country unreservedly condemns all violence against the sovereign state of Iraq, Syria, Somalia etc etc.

    Logically therefore. since May and Thingy bob have both been funding the proxy jihadists , they would have to banish themselves, obviously without passports to anywhere in the world where breaking international law is approved of. In fact one of the reasons why may and thingybob are both incapable of joined up politics is because they are up to their eyeballs in Tory Party lies as announced by William Hague in 2010 concernimng UK foreign policy. Cameron, even wearing the slimy condom of official denial, was unable to stand up to his own party on leaving the EU, so how are may and whatshis name going to do better than Cameron, when Al Qaida and its sister Daesh form a Queen’s regiment for proxy operations in foreign states for the British crown?

    Welcome back Craig. but it is rather tedious to have to listen to your taunts about the chaos we are in because British hypocrisy lost you your job as Ambassador. Your own mental health did not prosper under British hypocrisy and lies, so why should this British girls? I still don’t see any advantage to the UK of the destruction of either Iraq or Syria, Somalia Libya or Yemen. The only advantage in their destruction seems to be to Israel and to whoever wags Israel’s tail, ( i.e. most British MPs) .

    The fact that the media and MPs are so accustomed to supporting Israel that they are unredeemingly comfortable with the hypocrisy and lies in our foreign policy lets figures like Kenneth Clarke support Shamima Begum’s repatriation. Nothing to see here. move along please. Jeremy Corbyn would repatriate her because he has nothing to hide. Under a Labour government these home-grown terrorists would be re-deployed as trainee citizens of this country, instead of under the Tories being groomed for services to the Zionist cause.

  • Sharp Ears

    Totàlly agree. Javier is an even more cruel Home Secretary than Theresa May.
    A nasty little ex banker with ambitions.

  • Dave

    Definitely not a sympathetic figure but presented in a moral maze sort of way, with a hard luck story to complicate matters and intentionally so, with the usual wall to wall media coverage signifying state propaganda.

    It appears Trump has pulled the plug on the ISIS franchise so what is to happen to those ‘fighters’ sent to Syria by the globalists to depose Assad? Well like it or not, they’re the problem of the countries that sent them, but the Government is framing the story in a particular way to cover the fact it was a problem of our own foreign policy making.

    • Shatnersrug

      It’s not a moral maze though is it? She’s British. Born here. What next? Ooh don’t like that Yorkshire ripper bloke so from now as far as the British state is concerned on he’s Ukrainian – deport him!

      This country has gone rogue this no longer a normal democratic liberal country and we are all living under a sickness that leads to genicide and the eventual complete collapse of the country. We’re all infected with it, even if many of us wish not to be and just as in Nazi germany, Rwanda, it will now have to run its course – I doubt anything can be done to stop a country when it decides that large subsections of its population need to be eradicated, once one section is ‘dealt with’ is on to the next. We’ve had a cull of the long term sick we now move on to Muslims.

      • Dave

        If she is guilty then those who facilitated her passage to Syria are guilty too. I.e. the government. Hence the state propaganda focusing on her rather than her state helpers to encourage political support for her and the others being killed, or stripped of passports, to avoid their return and telling the full story with or without a trial, if held.

          • Dave

            I don’t know, but I sure the information is available somewhere. On the presumption that government policy was to depose Assad, remember (failed) vote in Parliament, and promoted ISIS to depose Assad and therefore encouraged fighters, mercenaries, (and covert British forces), to go to Syria, via, at that time, ally Turkey.

            Many Muslims as Giyane explains, bought into the Western propaganda about ISIS, encouraging many useful idiots/fools to go, to be used in turn for the anti-Muslim propaganda to excuse ‘Western’ bombing Arab countries.

  • John2o2o

    I may agree with what you say, Craig. But the British state is surely not about to withdraw it’s anti Syrian government propaganda any time soon.

    According to the BBC, Javid as Home Secretary is entitled to do this under the 1981 British Nationality Act if he believes that this is “conducive to the public good”. (A phrase which is surely a crude euphemism for “might win the Tory party votes.”)

    • Jo1

      It was pointed out to Javid last night on Peston that this woman cannot be rendered stateless by his office. Bangladesh had earlier confirmed she did not have citizenship there. Javid accepted the legal point that with no other nationality, he cannot declare her British nationality null and void. He declined to say what would happen next.

      Perhaps had he not played to the gallery on this case to start with, he would not look such an idiot now.

  • BigMac

    The attitude to immigrants which is betrayed by the stripping of citizenship from Shamima Begum is truly appalling.

    Comparing her to an average immigrant is truly appalling: she was an UK citizen, left to become an ISIS citizen while knowing they behead non-Muslims but that was ok for her and now that that Islamic State has failed she wants to return amongst many non-Muslims in the UK?

    Perp playing victim defended by White colonial guilt tripper with a pro Muslim twist.

      • BigMac

        She married an ISIS terrorist to breed children for him. She read about their ideology before she sneaked out of her family and the UK.
        God knows what else she did for 4 years in Syria but I am sure you want to plead innocence for her, being a useful idiot.
        A whole lot more than wrong parking or speeding for which you get in legal trouble.

        • Jo1

          She can be brought back here and prosecuted, as others before have been.

          There is also a child here.

  • Gavin C Barrie

    First call is for Syria to decide whether to prosecute. Stupid move to rescind her citizenship, If Syria is meticulous in legal processes the action of Savid Javid may be judged prejudicial.

    Anyway, to open up the can reference the above,, how were IRA suspects and supporters treated by the English judicial system?

    Why are England’s “Met” police dragging their feet to investigate Dark Money sloshing around the Brexit campaign?Kicking the can down the road?

    • Herbie

      “Anyway, to open up the can reference the above,, how were IRA suspects and supporters treated by the English judicial system?”

      In terms of the Begum case, they had a thing popularly called “internal exile”. This was for those against whom there was no evidence to proceed to trial.

      So, what technically were British citizens from NI were barred from entering GB, and/or required to leave GB.

      IIRC there were only a few cases of this.

      • Old Mark

        Herbie- the IRA men subject to exclusion orders from GB in the troubles would never call themselves ‘British citizens’- they, unlike Ms Begum. were completely honest about where their true allegiances lay.

        • Herbie

          Yes. That’s certainly a distinction.

          The difficulty in the Begum case is that we’re forced to evaluate it in terms of the fake narratives surrounding the whole Syrian operation.

          In reality, she and her fellows may have considered themselves as fighting for the empire rather than against it.

          The problem for her is that the Western empire lost, and she’s now an embarrassing loose end.

        • Old Mark

          Internment began in 1971 and was phased out from 1976 onwards- thereafter ‘terrorists’ and their sympathisers/fundraisers were repressed via no jury Diplock courts and by the exclusion orders which Herbie mentioned.

          The regime which included exclusion orders actually lasted a lot longer than internment proper, and Herbie is right to compare the use of exclusion orders to the deprivation of citizenship in respect of dual nationals – they are comparable deterrents.

  • Loony

    Are you some kind of British supremacist? or do you intend your statement “To claim that second generation Britons are not British, but rather citizens of where their ancestors “came from”, is racism pure and simple” to apply to all peoples and all countries equally?

    If you are not a British supremacist then what could explain your remarkable silence when Jacob Zuma claimed that a large swathe of White South Africans were not in fact South African but belonged in the countries where their ancestors came from.

    Very few white South Africans of British descent have surrendered their right to a British passport – they view having access to a British passport as some form of insurance policy should things in South Africa take a material turn for the worse. Your latest preferred victim has access to Bangladeshi citizenship – maybe her thought processes were the same as the thought processes of British descended South Africans. Or maybe they weren’t – maybe your implied argument is that brown skinned people simply lack the same forward thinking capacity of white people. Now that would be truly racist.

    If you have one Grandparent born in Ireland then you can ordinarily obtain Irish citizenship. Are the Irish racists? and if so what should be done about this? Maybe invade them, or starve them into submission – oh but I forgot you nation of humanitarians tried that once (or more than once) before.

    This young lady is clearly a very nasty piece of work so on second thoughts maybe she should return to the UK where she will find an entire nation composed of similarly deranged people.

    • glenn_nl

      L: ” … she should return to the UK where she will find an entire nation composed of similarly deranged people.”

      Racist twat!

      • Loony

        I cannot detect any racism in my comments. However I can detect proof of my assertions in your puerile response.

        A response calculated to contain no information at all but to spew invective as a protective measure from being forced to confront your own cognitive dissonance.

    • freddy

      Of course it’s not “racism pure and simple”. That’s the hammer to bludgeon any discussion. She appears to be one mixed-up teenager, who joined an organization dedicated, in part, to the destruction of the culture she now wants to rejoin

      What happens if we fail to “re-educate” her (a different sort of brainwashing) and some time down the line, she is responsible for another home-grown terrorist incident? What will you feel about that? That said, I think she needs help.

      Is Craig being more subtle than I give him credit for? Is this just a hint of his thoughts on the (not just) European issue of immigration and cultural identity? You wonder if an independent Scotland, might be as “evil” as the UK (which I agree is damn evil). given a truly open-borders, cross-cultural, inter-sectional, globalist government.

      I don’t know about the “supremacist” part, but I feel, given his views, he is an elitist.

      Signed: groundling

  • .Peter

    Article 8
    Contracting States shall not deprive people of their nationality so as to render them stateless. (Exceptions: where otherwise provided in the Convention; where nationality has been acquired by misrepresentation or fraud; disloyalty to the Contracting State).

    Britain is a signatory to the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness an under that convention she was clearly disloyal by engaging with a terrorist group. However, the behaviour of UK towards the baby butchers White Helmets is more than just a bit hypocritical.

    • Anne

      Isn’t it that the UK has made the reservation under Art. 8 only for naturalized UK citizens what does not apply here? Craig, as a former diplomat, you must know! (???)

  • Rob Royston

    Kaye Adams, appearing on Loose Women and responding to a poll that they had run which had 93% with the decision and only 7% against, asked why 800 other ‘terrorists’ had been welcomed back to the UK without this fuss and suggested that this was a political decision to distract from the government’s woes. Janet Street Porter broadly agreed with her.
    Apparently Kaye has come under accusations on Twitter that she give the finger to the audience, when it is obvious that she is using them to make her points. Nobody is safe any more in this madhouse.

    • Herbie

      This is not to distract from Tory woes.


      It’s a dog whistle to the racists in the country that the Tories are tough on those with a “funny tinge”

      Same as the Windrush thing and all the rest.

      They know it will be thrown out by the courts but the racists won’t notice that way down the line.

  • SW

    It’s important to remember that Javid is also the son of immigrants. These kind of racist decisions, like the decision to invade Iraq on fake ‘evidence’, aren’t in the long term interests of the UK. Are they treasonous? As I say, they are not in the interests of the UK. I’m not sure if Javid has been to Pakistan much, but perhaps he could be deported there at some point in the future.

  • Charles Bostock

    There you go!

    Labour party front bencher Barry Gardiner – who cannot be accused of attempting to undermine Jezza – has admitted just now that the Labour party has let down its membership, its voters and the Jewish community by failing to be tough enough in combatting qnti-semitism in the party.

    Interestingly enough, he said that the large influx of members just before the last vote on the party leadership allowed the entry of a minority of dedicated anti-semites and that the Labour party had not done enough to check their entry and to weed them put subsequently.

  • Sharp Ears

    Strange logic from Javid to grant British citizenship to the baby but not to the mother when the baby’s father is apparently Dutch?? I don’t understand.

    • Charles Bostock

      You very often don’t understand things. No one can grant or not grant British citizenship to the baby. The baby is automatically entitled to British citizenship by virtue of his mother having had British nationality when it was born. The fact that the baby was born outside the UK changes nothing because his mother is British otherwise than by descent.

      I could explain further but you probably wouldn’t understand so I shan’t bother.

  • adams

    Just keep her out permanently . She said it all herself when talking about the actions in Caliphate Land . She said . “All is allowed “.
    to what did she refer ? The Holy book of course where all violence against non believers is sanctioned and recommended.
    The media do not pick up on that comment because they are supping at the Grand Table called PC . We will let in thousands more who agree that All is allowed . Never mind just keep voting LibLabCon Green .

  • Mist001

    There are many unanswered questions about this but my view is that she went to Syria and actively supported a terrorist organisation at war with the UK and the West. I’m no expert, but isn’t that treason? I think the government are quite right to strip her of British citizenship. Bangladesh aren’t even discussing the matter and that’s how it should be. I don’t get why there’s a problem over this.

    • michael norton

      These people actively made a choice to go to Syria to join The Islamic State.
      This was premeditated.
      You do not cross a continent to enter another continent by breaking U.K. law, surreptitiously entering Syria via Turkey, without understanding what you are doing.

      In your mind and in your body you are fully engaging with The Islamic State.
      No way back to normality, a one way road, which they have chosen.

    • Jo1

      Well you’re apparently legally wrong on the stripping of citizenship business.

      My question is, why can’t she be brought back, as others were, and tried here? Why don’t the same rules apply to her?

  • Baalbek

    This is truly an appalling case. The West has become a very ugly place since 11.09.2001 and it keeps getting uglier. She was 15 years-old FFS. Are 15 year-olds who are actually tried and convicted of committing a violent crime stripped of their citizenship and thrown to the wolves? What would they have done had her parents not been immigrants… made her stateless? The racism here is blatant and shocking. Two-tier citizenship and a legal system that has different rules for people who aren’t white have no place in a functioning democracy.

  • Mark

    I have to disagree with you Craig. Savid Javid’s decision is spot on.
    Let her apply for asylum in one of those country’s in which the ISIS belief system, and it’s abhorrent disregard for human rights, for which this woman purposely left the UK to join, is dominant. Alternatively, given that she is in Syria, it would seem that the jurisdiction of that country ought to apply. If they were to then do their worst – I suspect it would be of no loss to humanity.

  • Goose

    Do you remember how the Greens ran on a manifesto that said belonging to any such organisation shouldn’t even be a crime.

    “It should not be a crime to belong to an organisation such as Islamic State or al-Qaeda, the leader of the Green party Natalie Bennett has said, because people should not be punished for what they think.” – 2015

    • Goose

      I point this out, because they could quite easily have been part of a coalition govt that would be still in power today, had Ed Miliband’s Labour not done quite so unexpectedly badly.

      2015’s election seems so long ago, doesn’t it.

      • Jo1

        That’s just been discussed on Politics Live. The Green representative there confirmed it isn’t a crime to feel sympathy for certain causes but qualified this by stating it absolutely IS a crime to actively further their aims by joining such an organisation, funding it or participating in their activities.

  • Charles Bostock

    Former diplomats are not automatically experts on nationality law or even international law for that matter.

  • Anne O'Nimmus

    If Javid’s argument for stripping her of citizenship is that she can apply elsewhere due to her heritage then there’s a few million white britons that could be used against if we have a govt that takes against us for political affiliation/action abroad. Many people have at least one grandparent from countries that allow a second nationality for grandchildren – and we’re not bame. We have a thoroughly obnoxious government right now – but there’s nothing to say things couldn’t get even worse.

  • Goose

    Apparently, Labour and Corbyn’s pacifism are threats to our security.

    But surely, neither Sajid Javid nor Gavin Williamson make anyone who actually thinks about things, feel safe and secure? Both are dangerous by virtue of their belligerent warmongering, in Willianson’s case, and playing to the right-wing gallery in Javid’s. They’re not a calming influence on others, are they?

    • Deb O'Nair

      Gavin Williamson is a clear danger to the UK, having single handedly queered the UK/China trade talks.

  • Anon1

    It would appear that the cruel and hateful Bangladeshis don’t want her either. She is not apologetic. She still supports ISIS. She has left this country to join the most extreme and violent terrorist organisation in existence. She has effectively revoked her right to be a part of civilized society and should be left where she is. I don’t know the legal technicalities, but it should be made clear to her that if she returns here then she will serve a very long sentence in prison.

    • Baalbek

      It’s easy to scapegoat a young girl who made some really stupid choices at the age of 15 while the likes of Anthony Blair, George W. Bush and other Westen war criminals, who are responsible for many hundreds of thousands of CONFIRMED deaths, are not only free to live in peace and prosperity but also to profit handsomely from their crimes against humanity.

      Knee jerk vindictiveness serves no purpose other than satisfying a base urge for revenge and retribution. Don’t let your emotions rule your mind and turn you into an automaton.

    • Herbie

      She should apply for Israeli citizenship.

      Efraim Halevy, a former Mossad boss, has said of treating ISIS fighters in Israeli hospitals that Israel did that because it was the humane thing to do.

      Wouldn’t do it for Hezbollah, though.


      Should be in this interview somewhere:


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