The FBI Has Been Lying About Seth Rich 222

A persistent American lawyer has uncovered the undeniable fact that the FBI has been continuously lying, including giving false testimony in court, in response to Freedom of Information requests for its records on Seth Rich. The FBI has previously given affidavits that it has no records regarding Seth Rich.

A Freedom of Information request to the FBI which did not mention Seth Rich, but asked for all email correspondence between FBI Head of Counterterrorism Peter Strzok, who headed the investigation into the DNC leaks and Wikileaks, and FBI attorney Lisa Page, has revealed two pages of emails which do not merely mention Seth Rich but have “Seth Rich” as their heading. The emails were provided in, to say the least, heavily redacted form.

Before I analyse these particular emails, I should make plain that they are not the major point. The major point is that the FBI claimed it had no records mentioning Seth Rich, and these have come to light in response to a different FOIA request that was not about him. What other falsely denied documents does the FBI hold about Rich, that were not fortuitously picked up by a search for correspondence between two named individuals?

To look at the documents themselves, they have to be read from the bottom up, and they consist of a series of emails between members of the Washington Field Office of the FBI (WF in the telegrams) into which Strzok was copied in, and which he ultimately forwarded on to the lawyer Lisa Page.

The opening email, at the bottom, dated 10 August 2016 at 10.32am, precisely just one month after the murder of Seth Rich, is from the media handling department of the Washington Field Office. It references Wikileaks’ offer of a reward for information on the murder of Seth Rich, and that Assange seemed to imply Rich was the source of the DNC leaks. The media handlers are asking the operations side of the FBI field office for any information on the case. The unredacted part of the reply fits with the official narrative. The redacted individual officer is “not aware of any specific involvement” by the FBI in the Seth Rich case. But his next sentence is completely redacted. Why?

It appears that “adding” references a new person added in to the list. This appears to have not worked, and probably the same person (precisely same length of deleted name) then tries again, with “adding … for real” and blames the technology – “stupid Samsung”. The interesting point here is that the person added appears not to be in the FBI – a new redacted addressee does indeed appear, and unlike all the others does not have an FBI suffix after their deleted email address. So who are they?

(This section on “adding” was updated after commenters offered a better explanation than my original one. See first comments below).

The fourth email, at 1pm on Wednesday August 10, 2016, is much the most interesting. It is ostensibly also from the Washington Field Office, but it is from somebody using a different classified email system with a very different time and date format than the others. It is apparently from somebody more senior, as the reply to it is “will do”. And every single word of this instruction has been blanked. The final email, saying that “I squashed this with …..”, is from a new person again, with the shortest name. That phrase may only have meant I denied this to a journalist, or it may have been reporting an operational command given.

As the final act in this drama, Strzok then sent the whole thread on to the lawyer, which is why we now have it. Why?

It is perfectly possible to fill in the blanks with a conversation that completely fits the official narrative. The deletions could say this was a waste of time and the FBI was not looking at the Rich case. But in that case, the FBI would have been delighted to publish it unredacted. (The small numbers in the right hand margins supposedly detail the exception to the FOIA under which deletion was made. In almost every case they are one or other category of invasion of privacy).

And if it just all said “Assange is talking nonsense. Seth Rich is nothing to do with the FBI” then why would that have to be sent on by Strzok to the FBI lawyer?

It is of course fortunate that Strzok did forward this one email thread on to the lawyer, because that is the only reason we have seen it, as a result of an FOI(A) request for the correspondence between those two.

Finally, and perhaps this is the most important point, the FBI was at this time supposed to be in the early stages of an investigation into how the DNC emails were leaked to Wikileaks. The FBI here believed Wikileaks to be indicating the material had been leaked by Seth Rich who had then been murdered. Surely in any legitimate investigation, the investigators would have been absolutely compelled to check out the truth of this possibility, rather than treat it as a media issue?

We are asked to believe that not one of these emails says “well if the publisher of the emails says Seth Rich was the source, we had better check that out, especially as he was murdered with no sign of a suspect”. If the FBI really did not look at that, why on earth not? If the FBI genuinely, as they claim, did not even look at the murder of Seth Rich, that would surely be the most damning fact of all and reveal their “investigation” was entirely agenda driven from the start.

In June 2016 a vast cache of the DNC emails were leaked to Wikileaks. On 10 July 2016 an employee from the location of the leak was murdered without obvious motive, in an alleged street robbery in which nothing at all was stolen. Not to investigate the possibility of a link between the two incidents would be grossly negligent. It is worth adding that, contrary to a propaganda barrage, Bloomingdale where Rich was murdered is a very pleasant area of Washington DC and by no means a murder hotspot. It is also worth noting that not only is there no suspect in Seth Rich’s murder, there has never been any semblance of a serious effort to find the killer. Washington police appear perfectly happy simply to write this case off.

I anticipate two responses to this article in terms of irrelevant and illogical whataboutery:

Firstly, it is very often the case that family members are extremely resistant to the notion that the murder of a relative may have wider political implications. This is perfectly natural. The appalling grief of losing a loved one to murder is extraordinary; to reject the cognitive dissonance of having your political worldview shattered at the same time is very natural. In the case of David Kelly, of Seth Rich, and of Wille Macrae, we see families reacting with emotional hostility to the notion that the death raises wider questions. Occasionally the motive may be still more mixed, with the prior relationship between the family and the deceased subject to other strains (I am not referencing the Rich case here).

You do occasionally get particularly stout hearted family who take the opposite tack and are prepared to take on the authorities in the search for justice, of which Commander Robert Green, son of Hilda Murrell, is a worthy example.

(As an interesting aside, I just checked his name in the Wikipedia article on Hilda, which I discovered describes Tam Dalyell “hounding” Margaret Thatcher over the Belgrano and the fact that ship was steaming away from the Falklands when destroyed with massive loss of life as a “second conspiracy theory”, the first of course being the murder of Hilda Murrell. Wikipedia really has become a cesspool.)

We have powerful cultural taboos that reinforce the notion that if the family do not want the question of the death of their loved one disturbed, nobody else should bring it up. Seth Rich’s parents, David Kelly’s wife, Willie Macrae’s brother have all been deployed by the media and the powers behind them to this effect, among many other examples. This is an emotionally powerful but logically weak method of restricting enquiry.

Secondly, I do not know and I deliberately have not inquired what are the views on other subjects of either Mr Ty Clevenger, who brought his evidence and blog to my attention, or Judicial Watch, who made the FOIA request that revealed these documents. I am interested in the evidence presented both that the FBI lied, and in the documents themselves. Those who obtained the documents may, for all I know, be dedicated otter baiters or believe in stealing ice cream from children. I am referencing the evidence they have obtained in this particular case, not endorsing – or condemning – anything else in their lives or work. I really have had enough of illogical detraction by association as a way of avoiding logical argument by an absurd extension of ad hominem argument to third parties.


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222 thoughts on “The FBI Has Been Lying About Seth Rich

1 2 3
  • Sid Finster

    Of course the FBI was lying. Duh.

    The problem is that the honorable judge will do nothing about it, other than deliver a stern admonition to the FBI not to get caught again.

  • Cubby

    Nigel Farage and his gang embarrassing themselves and the UK in the EU parliaments UK Withdrawal from the EU Debate. Prattling on about no democracy in the EU but standing there in a EU parliament as an MEP. But no doubt he will be in the undemocratic House of Lords pretty soon.

    Saying he hates the EU.

    Brexiteers leaving with no class or dignity waving their silly tiny Union flags. The Irish woman Maireed McGuinness in the chair showed the UK rabble how to behave with some class.

    • Deb O'Nair

      “Nigel Farage and his gang embarrassing themselves and the UK in the EU parliaments…but standing there in a EU parliament as an MEP”

      The only people who need to be embarrassed by Farage and his gang of morons are the people who have repeatedly sent him there, either through implicit support by voting for them or tacit support by not voting at all in EU election – either way he’s a f*cking embarrassment to the so called UK electorate and the UK political system as a whole.

      • Kim Sanders-Fisher

        Consider doing something positive to make our Government more democratic in future. That must start with investigating our deeply flawed electoral system that facilitated the dubious EU Referendum vote, and the last two General Elections including the miraculous Tory victory in 2019. If you have suspicions that the vote was rigged join us on the Elections Aftermath forum and please consider signing and shating this important Petition on AVAAZ:
        Go To:

        • Goose

          I’d be sympathetic were it not the case that the Tories had big leads in nearly all the opinion polls for months prior. Yes, there may be some bent Tory-linked pollsters out there, even quite a few, but all? No way.

          Tbh, Labour did well to get over 10m votes and 32% on a cold, wet windy day in December with their muddled Brexit stance and increasingly frail leader.

          The election was like the perfect storm for Johnson: it allowed the Tories , aided by their press to turn the election into a proxy Brexit referendum. Johnson had no baggage as PM, whereas Corbyn had been monstered for four years – including by many in his own parliamentary party. The Lib Dems in triggering the election when then did destroyed Labour’s strategy of forcing Johnson to compromise or try to ‘no deal’ and be forced to resign what with the EU extension deadline coming up, right about now in fact (end of January) had we not had an election.

          The result isn’t all that suspicious really, just really shitty play by the Lib Dems, they offered to amend the FTPA with a one-line bill requiring a simple majority, Labour had no choice but to accept an election now or risk being dragged to the polls.

  • Sean_Lamb

    A couple of things.

    The files that Guccifer 2.0 was distributing had a creation date a few days before Rich’s death. Binney and others have claimed that the speed on the transfer ruled out an internet connection, but it couple have been using the Linux cp command. What he suggested that bootable linux on a USB could have been plugged into a DNC computer, this would over ride the MS security and then the files were copied using the cp command.
    What I have suggested is that perhaps FBI (or others) may have done this same operation to Seth Rich’s lap top and taken the materials from him. These were subsequently passed to Guccifer 2.0, who released them in September 2016.

    The other suggestion I would have is don’t rule out the possibility Russians (or Ukrainians) may have killed Seth Rich. If the buried scandal in the email leaks was Browder and the Ziff brothers filching money from Russia, then what would be more appropriate if Russian mafia provided the muscle to eliminate who they believed was the source of the leaks? Then if they ever did get caught, the FBI could blame Vladimir Putin

      • Sean_Lamb

        Yes, its a process used to natural sciences to give preference to simpler explanations if they fully capture the complexity of a system. For example, if planetary orbits can be mapped by a couple of equations, that is to be preferred to a system of epicycles.

        From the late 20th C it acquired a minor secondary use as a heuristic shortcut to reject explanations about politics or current events which cause the speaker discomfort

          • H Mencken

            For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

            H. L. Mencken

        • Roberto

          It has nothing to do with the ‘discomfort’ caused by confronting what is more likely truth when only conjecture is possible, but rather the recognition that humans tend to complicate rather than simplify. From its inception, the principle was to be applied to all observations, not just those of the physical universe.
          William of Ockham (1285-1347/49) stated that:
          ‘plurality should not be posited without necessity.’ (pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate)

          • squirrel

            Occam’s razor would reject the idea that all CCTV footage of Epstein on both ‘suicide’ attempts could malfunction / be lost / accidentally destroyed, and instead accept that foul play on the inside took side, as that neatly explains all the missing CCTV footage.

            Similar with all the irregularities surrounding Seth Rich. Either you create all kind of preposterous rationalizations to explain the official narrative (as well exposed by Craig Murray in this article) – or you can otherwise assume that he was murdered as a hit against wikileaks. The latter explanation fulfils Occam’s Razor as then you have to contrive nothing.

      • Deb O'Nair

        Occam’s Razor is a philosophical approach that says the simple explanation is favoured over the complex. Occam’s Razor is worse than pointless in political debates because political lies are often complexities dressed up a simplicities. When dealing with political discourse concerning matters of truth then dialectics is your friend.

    • Deb O'Nair

      ” bootable linux on a USB… over ride the MS security”

      MS has security?

      This seems unlikely as hard drives containing IP and other sensitive info tend to be encrypted to avoid such simple compromises, but the NSA can get ’round that easily enough – and there’s plenty of useless system administrators employed because they have the right ‘attitude’ rather than any technical expertise.

      • Deb O'Nair

        If the drive is encrypted it could be copied onto a bootable USB drive using the linux command “dd”, then the encryption key could be broken at leisure.

      • Sean_Lamb

        “hard drives containing IP”

        I have no idea what you are trying to say. However since the target here would have been Rich’s laptop, there is no reason to think it would have been encrypted.

        It wouldn’t require FBI or NSA involvement, just a private investigator. If Rich had been identified as a suspect, the DNC could have targeted his lap-top when he was at lunch. The possibilities are endless

        • Deb O'Nair

          Intellectual property – i.e. personal/professional stuff that you write or hold in your possession.

          Many people are savvy about this just in case they lose a laptop and don’t want people accessing their browser cache etc. for online banking details. When you install MS you have an option to encrypt the drive and it is recommended on laptops.

          • Sean_Lamb

            As I said, if the only weak point is that is a slight but non-zero possibility Rich’s laptop may have been encrypted, I think I am doing pretty well.

          • Magic Robot

            Deb O’Nair
            January 29, 2020 at 17:29
            I understood the abbreviation ‘IP’ stood for ‘Internet Protocol’.
            Since texting overtook typing, abbreviations have become ambiguous at best.

        • uncle tungsten

          Encryption is a very loose term nowadays. My device asks for my ‘encryption code’ meaning the pattern on the three by three dot image at login. Crapification of older complex terms is what passes for cleverness in this IT world.

      • Deb O'Nair

        either way system time-stamps are a poor indicator as to the what and how’s – I once changed a mainframe’s system time (when you had to reboot the system to change the time) in order to run a successful April fools joke many years ago – I never got caught even though a competent system manager could have seen that an unscheduled reboot had occurred twice and deduced that the system clock was changed to create a file in the future and then rebooted to set the clock again correctly.

        • Sean_Lamb

          Again, since the time would be that on Seth Rich’s lap top, there is no reason to think it is wrong. In any case, Binney’s argument rested on speed of transfer.

          Wandering through sysadmin pranks from the early 80s has great nostalgia value, but little practical use for 2016

          • Deb O'Nair

            “Again, since the time would be that on Seth Rich’s lap top”

            The point I have been trying to make is what you keep doing – attaching importance to system times and making a big assumption regarding fairly normal IT practices of data security and normal human behaviour, e.g. “could have targeted his lap-top when he was at lunch”. Craig has done it here also, suggesting that different ’email systems’ are being used because of differing time-stamp formats – which are a product of the mail reader software (MUA) and not the email server software (MTA).

          • Sean_Lamb

            Most personal computers and laptops have the correct date – which is the only important variable here – namely the rapid transfer of files was only a few days before Seth Rich’s death (and well after the DNC IT systems are believed to have been compromised).

            Saying that most people’s computers have the correct date on them and few ordinary computer users encrypt their hard drives don’t seem like big assumptions to me.

            My point was not suggest I can prove Guccifer 2.0’s September 2016 data dump was taken from Seth Rich’s computer. Rather it was to suggest it was an avenue worth exploring and that had Seth Rich come under suspicion by the DNC, there would have been opportunities for investigators (law enforcement or private) to dumped the contents of his laptop without him necessarily knowing about it.

            I guess, you are of the other opinion; namely people hardly ever have the right date on their laptops, always encrypt their hard drives and virtually never let it out of their sight.

            So we can agree to differ

          • Deb O'Nair

            Agreeing to differ is not the issue. The ‘avenue’ which you wish to explore is a dead-end and if you looked at the sign at the beginning of the avenue, which I have now pointed out, you would have seen that it’s a dead-end.

            Chatting about linux commands and bootable USB drives may give your argument weight and an air of authority to technically non-savvy people but, however the DNC emails surfaced, whether then came from Seth Rich’s laptop or he is just being setup as patsy to cover deep state actors behaviour, is a moot point (obviously not for Seth Rich if that is indeed why he died) as they have since been found all over the place, e.g. on Anthony Weiner’s laptop.

          • Sean_Lamb

            “Chatting about linux commands and bootable USB drives may give your argument weight and an air of authority to technically non-savvy people”

            It wasn’t my suggestion, it was William Binney of the NSA who can assure you is far more technically savvy than you or me.

            If Seth Rich had come under suspicion within the DNC there would have been ample opportunities for them to have accessed his laptop in the way William Binney has suggested.

            Hypothetically someone could have invited him in for a meeting, while someone went through his laptop.

            We aren’t talking about the DNC emails, we are talking about Guccifer 2.0’s September 2016 data-dump. Probably some of the difficulty you are having is you don’t really know much about the actual events in 2016.

          • Deb O'Nair

            “it was William Binney of the NSA who can assure you is far more technically savvy than you or me.”

            Yes, I’m sure he can.

    • Roberto

      A certain former diplomat, who shall remain nameless, long ago insinuated that he passed the USB drive to Wikileaks.
      Furthermore, Wikileaks’ Assange clearly stated that the files did not come from a hack.

  • Sue has a lawsuit against Rod Rosenstein.
    You can read about it here
    Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee wrote to Bill Barr and Christopher Wray yesterday. Letter is here – This guy is the insider who worked under Rosenstein in Maryland. His story is remarkable.
    One of his close friends was Molly MaCauley, a space economist specialising in satellites, who was murdered in 2017.

    He knows ALL about the Seth Rich assassination.

  • Dungroanin

    Does Craig know what has happened to the Durham investigation?

    I keep asking. It’s turning into the dog that didn’t bark…

      • Dungroanin

        Yup that was last I heard about it too… and rumours of a grand jury…. shit was supposed to hit fan by early December… I was hopping it would taje out the tories before they stole the election and frogmarched us tomorrow…

        But it has gone quiet.

        • Vivian O'Blivion

          I would guess that Trump’s monumentally dumb decision to mount a hybrid State / private investigation of his own featuring Guliani and his henchmen Lev and Igor damaged Durham’s official investigation. Of greater intrigue would be why Pompeo agreed to this stupid course of action and why Bill Barr traveled to Italy to question Italian Intelligence officials in person. Pompeo and Barr are giving Trump enough rope to hang himself me thinks.

          • Dungroanin

            Viv – your speculation doesn’t really illuminate – Guilliani afaik had evidence over a year ago and affadavits re Ukraine and Biden ACTUALLY blackmailing and bribing that government into shutting down the Burisima investigation by having the state prosecutor FIRED. Which implicated Clinton and Obama.

            How you tie that into the Russiagate conspiracy and blowback that the Durham investigation is about is speculative. Which also implicates Clinton and Obama. Barr has been meticulous to avoid transgressing boundaries to avoid being accused of going beyond his remit. That is why he is being attacked on innuendo by the Democrats and DS under investigation.

            Seth Rich’s murder and the DNC emails leaked to Wikileaks is yet ANOTHER unrelated issue.
            Which only seems to implicate Clinton.

            It has more to do with the illegal imprisonment and rendition of Assange – implicates Clinton and Obama again – on which the European Council seems to be finally discovering some gonnads about.

            The whole is beginning to resemble the unavoidable emperors new clothes – and NO Trump is not the emperor in that scenario- more the little kid.

            As for Gauntlet-Up-Pompeo, would be Caesar, he is foul mouthed thug and enforcer that will soon be swimming with the other fishes that have fallen from the WhiteHouse orbit – i don’t see a ‘free as a bird’ remaining days for him. More a Rushdie on steroids one.

          • Vivian O'Blivion

            I don’t imply that Barr’s Italian adventures are illegal, just that it’s highly irregular for an AG to be running petty errands that one of Durham’s investigators would be better suited to conduct.
            President Trump is entirely entitled to an official investigation into the roots of Russiagate, the Bidens in Ukraine or any other matter.
            Citizen Donald J. Trump is entirely entitled to a private investigation into the same matters (to be conducted by whatever nutter of his choosing) to be funded from his burgeoning re-election, war chest.
            It’s the conflation of State and private that’s the issue.
            In any case, Trump is apparently aff his big, orange man boobs on Sudafed most of the time these days.

        • Kim Sanders-Fisher

          Dungroanin – I have never given up on taking out the Tories over their corrupt election win. Revisit our group on the Elections Aftermath forum and please consider signing and sharing this Petition on AVAAZ:
          Go To:

  • Dungroanin

    Btw – i’m waiting for CM’s reaction to the EU parliament singing Auld lang… in response to the poxy fartage petty brexiteers. Does seem to imply an indy scotland would be welcome.

  • LinuxNerd

    As much as I respect William Binney and his “Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity” I have to say that their analysis of the DNC leak and their conclusion that the fast transfer rates indicates a local leak is nonsense. It perfectly possible and dare I say likely that a hacker looking to covertly exfiltrate data from a compromised network would first copy the files prior to compressing them with a utility such as tar. That would make the timestamps imply the fast transfer rate as is observed. Its also likely that this tar archive was then slowly exfiltrated over the course a few days so as not to flag up a highly unusual pattern of Gigabytes of data leaving the DNC network in a hurry. Regardless I actually think the offical story is BS and the leak probably was a local theft… maybe even by Seth.

      • Deb O'Nair

        The metadata contained in files are typically permissions, ownership and created/modified dates, all of which can be squashed by using a utility such as tar.

        The only way to know how the data was extracted is to actually check the server logs and auditing system, which is the point I was trying to make earlier with Sean_Lamb- it is impossible to say, by looking at the files alone, how the files were copied, how long it took, who did it etc. etc.

        • Buffalo_Ken

          Can someone explain this “tar” thing. Does that mean it is gunked up so that all the data is stuck together with no way to break it down piece by piece. I have a hunch that it can be broken down and further I have a lonely hunch that this is happening as we speak. I’ll keep the rest of my hunches to myself – thank-you. Dignity is important to me but not as important as Justice and Liberty and with no ill will meant, somebody here tried to tell me the order of peace and harmony and all that fluff and I think they were a bit off with their premise, but I love them still because there is really no way to understand what someone is trying to communicate unless we are face-to-face. Sitting around at the table is the best and that is what I want.

          So, one last goofy thing to throw out there that I have published elsewhere. Come to my place and lets talk directly face-to-face if we really want to get to know each other. But if you come uninvited be prepared for my defense. If you come with bad intent later on you will regret it assuming you are still alive and capable of thinking. If you cause harm of innocence then all I can say is be prepared for justified retribution. It is swift and fearsome and ruthless and efficient because it is justified. Simple.

          • pete

            Re Tar

            Tar is a file compression utility like Zip. It removes all the spaces in files, it can also put them back again. Isn’t science wonderful? I am unable to say what would happen to the time stamps on a batch of files if such a utility was used. However, I think Binney would have considered this possibility and discounted it, for whatever reason.

          • glenn_uk

            @Pete: Actually that’s not quite true. tar is not a compression utility, it’s an archive utility. There are options for compression, and of course you could pipe it through some other compression function. But in its standard form, tar will faithfully archive everything in its full form – including all spaces to their original extent.

          • Giyane

            Buffalo Ken

            Human intelligence is lodged in the heart .
            The brain is the filing system. Sitting next to someone , you can exactly feel the vibes coming from their heart.

            That extraordinary performance by Mrs May in which she radiated Tory rage against the unwashed plebs while sympathy for the only just managing speed out of her mouth.

            Or Boris talking about healing the disunity after longing for 2 weeks on a Caribbean beach.

            Or Pompeo pompificating against the Chinese Communist Party secure in the knowledge that he has been vaccinated against the phial of human sabotage he sent to Wuhan.

            High-stomscked are they both and full of ire. Why are you threatening people at the same time as inviting the round?

          • pete

            Re Tar and glenn_uk @ 1.17

            Thanks for the correction, you are of course right, the whole basic process is explained here:
            The basic thing is that tar&zip used in this way preserve the original formatting, which is what matters in this case. I feel sure Binney would have considered this as an option when coming to his conclusion, as an amateur as far as Linux is concerned, it is still a possibility that crossed my mind…

    • LinuxNerd

      Here is the quote Sheldon is alluding to. This is what Aaron’s lawyers say in a defamation lawsuit against various folks:

      “Since the day he learned that he had lost his only sibling, Aaron has worked 4.diligently to assist law enforcement to bring Seth’s murderer to justice. For well over a year, Aaron has devoted countless hours assisting state and federal law enforcement officials investigating the murder. He has provided law enforcement officials with access to all of Seth’s property, followed up regularly with the officials regarding their investigation, and voluntarily testified under oath as a witness before a grand jury convened to investigate Seth’s murder.”

      Anyone here know why a grand jury would be convened to investigate Seth’s murder?

  • Daniel

    In America, it has now become routine for Federal officials to lie to the courts.
    The most notable case …. The DEA and the NSA had a co-operation to monitor drug traffickers. But, later, when it came time to go to court, Federal prosecutors knowingly filed false documents with the court claiming that the information came from elsewhere. IIRC, they claimed “anonymous informants”. AFAIK, no action has ever been taken against these lawyers and legal representatives of the US government for deliberately lying to the courts.
    There are numerous other cases. About once a generation the FBI Crime Lab gets busted and has to admit that it falsifies reports on evidence. That’s happened enough in my lifetime that I’ve lost count of how many times.
    This is the court system and government which is supposed to give Julian Assange a fair trial. Given that America imprisons more of its own people than anyone else in the world, there are a lot of Americans that would laugh at the idea of a fair trial in America.

  • uncle tungsten

    Well said Craig, every bloody sentence. As for wikipedia (spit) we need a site called OffWikipedia or some such. In the same vein as OffGuardian who perform a great service to thinkers.

    • Buffalo_Ken

      uncle tungsten – can you elaborate on your troubles with wikipedia. Are you suggesting it is causing trouble? If so, explain yourself. If not, then what are you implying. I think I will call your bluff. I think on first reading that you are full of shi*. Explain yourself and prove me wrong if you don’t mind. If don’t speak up then I know about you that you do about me.

      • pretzelattack

        wikipedia has a known bias about political subjects. what part did you not understand? they have editors that come in and remove facts from articles, like one “philip cross”.

      • wonky

        In short, Wikipedia sucks ass in everything Politics and History.
        They (a very particular group of hyperactive Wiki editors) have been caught more than once trying to rewrite history and smearing perfectly honourable people. Mr Murray can sing a chorus or two about this.
        Don’t take my word for it, go see for yourself. For example, check for massive bias in any article on any political figure, who’s ever made a critical statement concerning AIPAC, or any positive statement about BDS or the everyday struggle of Palestinians.
        Prepare for buzzwords like “conspiracy theorist”, “anti-semite”, “extreme right-wing”, “terrorist”, etc.. Then, compare that with the treatment pro-zionist neoliberalcons get, even if they are proven serial killers and war criminals..

      • nevermind

        Stop having a go at people who have a more inquiring mind than yours please, that Bison head down is inconsequential and bad form.

        I happen to understand what uncle T meant and whence you know that there are teams of Wikipedia editors who work to distort and fabricate, just as our written and visional media.

        Calm down boare

  • Buffalo_Ken

    Holy Moly I’m talking more than I should but lucky for me I’m nothing but a peasant.

    So to keep it simple I’m thinking there are some leaders out there who are wondering if they might be fixing to suffer the same fate as that Iranian General who was taken out with a drone (along with his comrades most of whom must of been innocent). Anyhow, you are damn straight, if it could happen to him then obviously it could happen to you. How does this make you feel? Do you feel insecure? In general, I would say you get what you deserve and more than likely you deserve your insecurities because they must be coming out of your conscience. Merit is what matters and so don’t try to pass on your leadership to a son or daughter because odds are they have less merit than you do.

    Me – I am nothing but a peasant and for that I feel like I am blessed. Better to be a peasant than to be a target.

    What do you all think – is the cliff nearby?

  • Paul Barbara

    ‘.. Washington police appear perfectly happy simply to write this case off…’
    Par for the course, where the Clintons are concerned.
    ‘UPDATED: The Clinton Kill List: Full list of people “mysteriously dead” after working with Clintons’:
    And that doesn’t count ‘collateral damage’ – at least three suspicious ‘plane crashes’ have taken their toll of oblivious citizens nothing to do with the Clintons, just unlucky folks who shared a plane with one of the Clinton ‘enemies’.
    Also I don’t believe it includes two teenagers who inadvertently saw some drugs being dropped by parachute in Arkansas when Clinton was Governor, and who were found dead on railway lines.
    But like their friends the Bushes’, they are untouchable.
    To top things off, John Podesta (of Pizzagate’ infamy) has been elected to the DNC Convention Committee:
    ‘DNC chair names John Podesta & other Clinton loyalists to Convention Committee, triggering revolt from voters fearing 2016 2.0’:
    Trump is nearly as good at ‘Draining the Swamp’ as he is getting out of Syria.

    • Magic Robot

      Fake news.
      Real flu kills 100,000’s every year.
      Nary a mention in the media.
      Pollution is the cause, as the people who live there well know.
      But.. shut down the industrial powerhouse and stop the £billions it makes.
      No chance.
      So, what else to do?
      And you can bet the West is watching incredulously, as millions are subjected to curfew – VOLUNTARILY! No weapons or threats needed.
      Next, massive profits for Western drug companies making vaccines that will be MANDATORY for all.

      • AKAaka

        “But.. shut down the industrial powerhouse and stop the £billions it makes.
        No chance.”

        In case you haven’t heard, it is shut down. Over 50 million quarantined. Losing $billions. Why would you do that for the flu?

        Though you do use the pound sign so you may be talking about shut down in UK or something, though that is no industrial power house, so sorry if I have misunderstood.

        • Magic Robot

          January 30, 2020 at 20:53

          As in the Seth Rich case, the authorities are lying over so-called ‘coronavirus’.

          My comment referred to Wuhan province. Pictures of the city were shown on BBC and ITV. The air was quite obviously thick with smog, and yet none of the reporters bothered to mention this. Even small amounts of SO2 in the air will cause illness. The people there have been protesting about this, for a while now, and little is done to improve things. The ‘coronavirus’ is a hoax to cover for the government’s lack of environmental action that has resulted in a serious health issue for their people.

          The real problem is the old problem: poor air quality from the smogs enveloping the city etc. Recall the infamous London ‘Pea-Soupers’ that were a direct result of the SO2 pollution from Battersea power station. People were being found dead in shop doorways from the sulphuric acid, produced from the SO2 they had breathed in, that had destroyed their lungs from the insides. Their symptoms could be easily interpreted as ‘flu: coughing, hard to breathe, chest pains. From wikipedia (not trusted on contentious issues, of course): “The worst recorded instance was the Great Smog of 1952, when 4,000 deaths were reported in the city over a couple of days, and a subsequent 8,000 related deaths, leading to the passage of the Clean Air Act 1956, which banned the use of coal for domestic fires in some urban areas.”

          The situation is as bad today in China, with refuse being burned in incinerators and no attempt to clean the effluent emanating from them is made. The same for coal burning power stations, right there. The people there have been protesting against this, but no-one cares. On top of this the Wuhan province is a major industrial zone, making many billions in money every year for their economy. It is not something the government want closed down. The problem is environmental, but their government has turned it into a medical issue for political reasons.

          A qualified viewpoint can be found here:

          Yes, it is a conspiracy theory, but the evidence will mount to make it an undeniable conspiracy fact.

          • AKAaka

            That’s a lot of countries (who don’t exactly get on), a lot of experts/scientists etc and a lot of actors in on the hoax. A very expensive hoax too.

            Speaking of actors, look at this video and tell me what you think:

            Appears to be hundreds of patients taken outside and seizing. Very good acting?

            Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the one to shoot down anyone with a conspiracy theory, especially in the time we live in. And I’m sure there are conspiracies here. But S02 isn’t contagious, and something is going on. We are told not as bad as flu, but then why are other countries taking it so seriously? Doesn’t add up.

            Discussed more in comments to previous article.

          • Magic Robot

            MSM report here on the Chinese people’s protests:


            that are getting their government worried.

            As I explained earlier, people do get killed by SO2 inhalation, and the symptoms look like flu.

            We’ve (GB) been here before, a long time ago:

            “The initial plans to build Battersea Power Station in 1927 were met with angry protests, people were concerned the pollution would be harmful to the buildings and parks in the surrounding areas. In the end, however, permission was granted for a large power station to be built in Battersea.”

            “The reduction of sulphur emissions was an important factor from when the station was in the design stages, as it was one of the main concerns of the protesters”.

            And this is before I looked at the BBC and ITV farce with the so-called ‘infected British citizens’ from China. The bus driver, calmly driving along with passengers carrying a ‘deadly virus’, and not even a mask on his face, breathing their air!
            Like I said, the evidence is mounting.
            All done on behalf of big pharma and the security apparatus.
            All governments relish the chance to inflict yet more control, whoever they are.

  • Hawk Smith

    This was a well written article. The deductions made by the author appear both sound and impartial.
    It is worthy of note that Wikileaks had never issued such a reward and have also never had to issue a retraction of any of their statements or published information.
    One can only deduct there is more to the death of Seth Rich than meets the eye. At very bare minimum the FBI were negligent in not examining a case that had such incredible ramifications. One that was tied to a very active and politically hot subject at the time i.e. Russia-gate.
    If there is a wider conspiracy in Rich’s death that involves the leaks from the DNC then the implications are very wide reaching indeed.
    If people actually read some of the leaks in question made available by Wikileaks (via their unknown source) they would soon realize that collusion, cohesion and corruption in the DNC is systemic. So murder and political cover-ups are almost certainly not beyond them.
    These leaks have also been used to tar Julian Assange as some kind of Russian asset. Which is rather far fetched given the fact that Wikileaks has released information concerning corruption in both Russia’s government and their allies.
    In truth the whole Russia-gate could be perceived as a way to distract from the implications of the leaks. All the while seeking to discredit the messenger (Wikileaks) and of course shift the blame to the Russian bogey man. It would also distract from issues and questions surrounding Rich’s murder.
    If one actually looks at the presentable facts and circumstantial evidence there is strong reason to suspect fowl play. Especially given the circumstances of the murder.
    For a start if it was a robbery why was Mr Rich not robbed?

  • Cubby

    Some diddies think that the Great is getting put back into Great Britain by Johnson and Farage. They actually think it is Great Britain because it was great to have a great big Empire and Great Britain will truly become Great again.

    NO NO NO Its a geographical name for the largest British island – hence Great Britain.

  • Sarge

    Why will Trump and Fox News not touch the Seth-Rich-was-murdered-by-Democrats story, even as the Democrats try and hound Trump out of office? Both Trump and Fox routinely make stuff up about the Democrats, so why have they not been shouting endlessly from the rooftops about a crime that would destroy the Democratic party? At the very least demanding a proper investigation. I find it difficult to buy claims that either Trump or Fox News would be silenced by threats from any quarter if they thought they had a story that could destroy the Democratic party. Their entire histories suggest they would publicly foghorn any threats and extract maximum political and commercial gain from them. So I am genuinely baffled as to why they have long since backed off even demanding a proper investigation of Seth Rich’s murder.

    • OnlyHalfALooney

      “Why will Trump and Fox News not touch the Seth-Rich-was-murdered-by-Democrats story”

      Because Seth Rich’s family has sued Fox News for “emotional distress” resulting from Fox News’ coverage that included speculation of that Seth Rich leaked the DNC e-mails..

      The case is still ongoing. A lower court dismissed the suit but it was reinstated by an Appeals Court.

      As I have said above, we should be careful not to allege Seth Rich actually did anything. He may have, he may not have. The circumstances surrounding his death are very suspicious. But the fact that he was killed does not necessarily mean he did something. It is possible that the killers suspected him wrongly.

      Apparently there was a struggle before he was shot. It might even be possible that somebody tried to kidnap him but he managed to break free (bruising on his hands, knees and face). Without an independent investigation all we can do is speculate and point out that the official version is very unlikely and there seems to have been some kind of cover-up.

      • Sarge

        Thanks OHAL.
        Still surprised calls for an independent investigation haven’t been sustained — given how unconvincing the official version is and how big the political advantage would be if the speculation proved correct.

    • Paul Barbara

      The Repugnants have cartloads of skeletons, and the Demoprats know where they are buried. Vice versa. They may play ‘nasty’ towards each other, but they are both appendages of the PTB Bankster puppeteers.
      And some ‘foreign’ Intel agencies also know where they are buried, which translates to big influence.

  • Sean_Lamb

    A lot of technical misinformation being given out here by people who appear to be sufficiently knowledgeable to know better. To correct a few points
    “The metadata contained in files are typically permissions, ownership and created/modified dates, all of which can be squashed by using a utility such as tar.

    The only way to know how the data was extracted is to actually check the server logs and auditing system, which is the point I was trying to make earlier with Sean_Lamb”

    “squashed” is a meaningless term. I have only personally checked with RAR – but when you make a RAR archive, the metadata is preserved, not “squashed”. When the RAR file is passed across the internet, the metadata of the RAR file only changes, not the files within the archive. I assume TAR is the same.

    As far as server logs. For the scenario I outlined, using bootable linux on Seth Rich’s laptop I doubt that it would be captured by any logs since the lap top’s operating system is completely inert in the process.

    I should stress again, I am not trying to “prove” anything. I am simply proposing a possible scenario that would explain the observed data. Most of the objections to it have lapsed into obscurantism

    • Sean_Lamb

      Can I stress for the umpteenth time the theory is not mine and I quite happy to Skye Mull, Deb McNair and LinuxNerd as vastly more qualified and intelligent in IT that myself.

      I only observe that this immense talent doesn’t seem to have lent itself to expressing itself in clear, understandable language but simply randomly throwing technical terms around.

      I have developed NONE of the linux USB booting theory myself, I have simply copied it from people who are just as technically skilled as the three amigos mentioned above, but unlike these three individuals have the ability to clearly explain the technical terms involved. An example is here

      If anyone wishes to claim they know a lot more about Linux than me, I am sure they are right. But there are other people out there who know more than they do.

      They are in danger of becoming like Eliot Higgins, loudly but anonymously proclaiming expertise on chemistry, radar, toxicology, facial recognition, digital image forensics – when in reality he and they are just throwing around terms in an attempt to impress.

  • Sean_Lamb

    “It perfectly possible and dare I say likely that a hacker looking to covertly exfiltrate data from a compromised network would first copy the files prior to compressing them with a utility such as tar. That would make the timestamps imply the fast transfer rate as is observed. Its also likely that this tar archive was then slowly exfiltrated over the course a few days so as not to flag up a highly unusual pattern of Gigabytes of data leaving the DNC network in a hurry”

    It may be perfectly possible but it appears not to have happened that way. Donna Brazile in her book says the intrusion was a “smash and grap” affair and instantly visible.

    In any case, this doesn’t explained the observed meta data, since the file creation dates are too rapid to be explained by a hacker manually wandering through the network selecting files and a tar archive will transfer as a single file and not alter the metadata of the files contained.

    This is why I suggested a modification of Binney’s thesis which has the Guccifer 2.0 files (which are NOT the DNC emails) being taken from Seth Rich’s computer by the method Binney outlined.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    This is just the old story of ‘we are the ones in power and we can do whatever we like as a result, who cares what you say?’

    I have experienced that for 40 years in the most unpleasant environment of all, that of family. My father is completely incapable of understanding that my life is not his to live and his opinions on my life are far less important than mine are. He never accepts that the appalling errors he made over the first 40 years of my life mean that there are consequences in terms of how he is seen, whether he is even respected, whether he should even be tolerated.

    As you have a youngish son, Mr Murray, here is some advice from the son of an older father (not quite as old as you were when your son arrived, but still well older than average):

    1. Your hopes and dreams must always, repeat always, be compared to the reality of your sons actual talents and his own hopes and dreams. Parents can often be appalling judges of talent where offspring are concerned and there are plenty of charlatans happy to leave them deluded to get several years money off them.
    2. Exam results, ‘extracurricular achievements’ are all very well, but if they come at the cost of social ostracism in his own generation, they are not worth a fig. Being told to accept bullying as ‘something others will grow out of’ condemns your psyche to a lifetime of worthlessness unless a clean break can be made, preferably by living overseas. My biggest life mistake was ever coming back to this country after having a gap year abroad. Bullying is far, far worse in the UK than in some other countries…..
    3. If your son actually initiates an activity himself, it is far more likely that he will become truly committed to it than being coerced to do things driven by a parent’s insatiable ego. I took up cross-country running when we had a new collie puppy dog and fairly quickly won the school cross country, beating those a year older than me. My father’s complete disinterest in that allied to his never ending pushing where his own fantasies were concerned taught me that I was merely his slave, an accident of birth. The fact he rebelled against the ‘Empire’ to ‘liberate Africans’ in the 1950s taught me that he channelled his inner Empire Fascist into fatherhood……not very admirable, eh?

    Amazingly, I joined a fell running club in Glasgow (Westerlands CCC aka Glasgw Uni old boys and girls) and organised marathon training for a group when in Oxford. I wrote a ‘never get injured, never get ill’ manual of how the over 45s could start running in a way consistent with their age and fitness and I am confident that Tom Watson benefitted from my sending it to Cameron and Corbyn as a non party-political contribution to UK society.

    You know what they said? ‘Perhaps you want to join a running club?’

    You know, with a PHD, MBA and 30 years of adult life behind me, I would just about be competent to decide if I wished to join any organisation in my 50s. It is beyond contempt that anyone considering themselves emotionally competent to be in the lowest rungs of power, let alone letting raging egos run wild at the senior levels of them, would not know that. I joined the Ski Club of GB, I joined Westerlands CCC, I joined Glasgow Uni Mountaineering Club, I DO NOT NEED HELP IN JOINING ANY MORE. If I am not a member of anything now, it is probably that I got sick and tired of people trying to pigeonhole me into unglamorous monotonous roles when I had no need whatever to hold any positions for the sake of it.
    4. If you push your son for a decade in ways which are emotionally damaging, you had better be skilled in noticing if things ever become worthwhile. If you do not, your relationship with your son will die an irrevocable death, courtesy of abusive pushing for a decade and complete ignorance when ‘actions, taken at the flood, might lead on to fame and fortune’….

    Being an ex Ambassador is no get out clause, any more than my father being the ‘Chief Inspector Schools, Inner London Education Authority’ was: he was pig ignorant, emotionally illiterate and absolutely malignantly controlling. Just because he joined the Security Services does not make him competent as a father…….

    5. If, when your son is a grown man, you become malignant and malevolent because he rejected your forcings and took up things he freely chose to do himself, you will have written yourself out of their emotional life. You are no longer in loco parentis and they have every right to have nothing to do with you whatever as an adult if your behaviour justifies it. Refusing to spend a single penny helping them with their true pastimes whilst forcing £25,000 on them for prematurely forcing them onto the housing ladder (prior to sharing a home with similar aged friends) is hardly loving and kind, is it? It is just vindictively spiteful behaviour.

    Of course, if you were a ‘high flying member of the Labour Party’, your son has to be Labour too, eh?

    Just ask yourself whether your relationship with your son would be more important than his personal views on Scottish Independence. He may well be like you, but he has every right to make a different choice. Sneering, trashing, bullying about political views is a guarantee that they will hold your own views in complete contempt.

    I was left to starve by the Labour Party, driving me almost over the edge. I was rescued by ‘conservatives’, not party members but those who clearly had such viewpoints. Respect, kindness, letting me have my own space.

    How hard is that for superior Labour fascists, eh? Too hard by half……….it requires granting freedom to underlings, which Labour Bigwigs cannot tolerate: the working class plebs need to know their place and stay as working class plebs, after all….my sister came out to my domain and trashed the woman whose kindness had done most to restore my equanimity. It taught me a lot that the qualifications MB BS had nothing to do with emotional decency nor relationship competence. It also taught me that Security Services had recruited her and she was spying on me without my knowledge or consent.

    6. If you are foolish enough to commit adultery whilst remaining married and take the odd step of seeking emotional nurturing by your grown up son, it might be a good idea to show similar respect if your son falls in love and seeks your support, even if the person concerned may not end up being a spouse. Life is a journey and relationships prior to marriage provide the experiences necessary to make marriage successful. Trashing emotionally open younger people is absolute bullying and is a venal character flaw. You will never be trusted again, let alone to take a unilateral decision to ‘arrange a marriage’. Once you have trashed a son’s relationship competence in brutal ways, they are clearly incapable of marrying anyone in your eyes. So you arranging a marriage is all about you needing to be seen to be doing something, absolutely nothing to do with the happiness of that person unfortunate enough to be born your offspring.

    Power corrupts, power without competence corrupts absolutely.

    Those obsessed with power at all costs are those most capable of absolute evil in emotional and spiritual terms.

    I trust you are every bit as much a role model as a parent as you obviously were as an Ambassador Mr Murray………

    • remember kronstadt

      Our Father who art… yes, that one who has all the power. Advises, nay instructs us, that us kids really should be much nicer to each other but. Like all species, we’re only here to ****(reproduce) and will conform to any social norms and primitive ones to get our way as necessary. Seeking Power. The rest is avoiding recognition of the persistent terror of death with distraction, denial, pain and amused absurdity. You’ve got to laugh like a nervous coping mechanism. I don’t think I brought a coat..?

    • giyane

      Rhys Jaggar

      I’ve come to the conclusion that , in their attempt to build a better future for their children, our parents conceal most of their own appalling upbringings. Hence we are very deliberately excluded from being in a position to judge them fairly. We get a sifted version of their reality, with the really obnoxious bits removed but quite a lot of emotional pain left in. In an ideal world we wouldn’t start from where they started from , locked into Victorian prejudice and lack of opportunity, but would be magically inserted into the world without baggage.
      The reality however is that we originate as the product of sexual intercourse without a vast amount of pre-planning and careful thought. Our parents carried us as far towards utopia as they could with the resources they had at their disposal. If we actually had witnessed the gruelling reality they witnessed, then we might admire their immense toughness and willpower to get us so far along the way. But they concealed it , purely in the belief that moving on is the best thing to do.

      For example when I was a child it would have been unthinkable to move from one church to another, but I have moved to a whole new religion. That would have been completely unthinkable to our grandparents.
      Stasis is hard work, but we should thank all our forebears for the mountains of stasis they shovelled in their own way.

    • andic

      Rhys I have seen many of your posts here and elsewhere; for what it’s worth all that emotional upheaval seems to have made you quite a thoughtful and open minded person.

  • Reliably

    This duplicity is actually normal in the world of FOIAs. To find out if there’s an investigation – active or past – going on, you have to carpetbomb field offices and various agencies with FOIA requests. You will receive mostly denials but then you just might get one reply that cites as their reason for not releasing documents ‘an ongoing investigation’ with another agency. Then you have a foothold at least and can work that angle. You use any names, offices, etc to make your next round of requests. (You can hire an experienced FOIA lawyer and go to battle over redactions. I know one such lawyer who has gone to court over individual letters.)

    The default is denial. Doesn’t matter the subject or the sensitivity of it.

    FOI in the UK is much the same. There is the interesting caveat that the UK also states that investigating the FOI requester is part of their purview. Which is why I go through third parties.

    I’ve found the UK – specifically the FCO – to be the more blatantly mendacious entity. On one occasion, after writing a very detailed series of questions whether the FCO had contact (by email, telephone, in person, etc etc etc) with a particular deceased individual, the reply came back to me asking me to clarify what I meant by ‘contact’.

    When you receive a reply like that. You know the answer – did they have contact with the person? – is ‘yes’. But you have to waste all kinds of time getting around the ‘contact’ semantics.

    BTW, I came across the Seth Rich murder by a different means than most. I was doing some research on ShotSpotter technology – this is the gunfire detection system that alerts law enforcement to shootings. Rich’s murder was caught on a ShotSpotter system and this is what brought LE out to the scene. Not witnesses. I’m not sure how that’s relevant but my inclination is to think that it’s not irrelevant.

  • J

    Some background links to this story:

    Ed Butowsky is a businessman who filed a lawsuit in which he claims Fox news reporter Ellen Ratner was his source that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC hack:

    Ellen Ratner discussing the meeting with Assange, ‘she met with Wikileaks founder Julian Assange for 3 hours. He told her that Russia did not “hack” the DNC, it was from an internal source.’

    Seymour Hersh also confirms Seth Rich was the source:

    Ray McGovern, former CIA officer has been subpoenaed in relation to the case, confirms the DNC leak:

  • Whaley Turco

    I am well acquainted with the Neighborhood that Seth Rich lived and died in. Yes, it could have been a robbery gone bad. But, Nothing was taken. But. let’s say it was. There is a half million dollar reward offered for the identity of the suspects. Half the people in that area are still trying to figure out how to pay February’s rent and it’s January 30th. That 500K is, as they say a Golden Ticket out. Most of the crime in that area is Gangster on gangster or gang related. When someone is killed, gangster or not, nobody talks till the inevitable 20K reward is posted, the gangster who did the killing is quickly outed. Works every time. So Logic dictates this wasn’t a robbery gone bad.

  • Paul Cardin

    Similarly, after Cheshire West Council banned me from making Freedom of Information and personal data requests in 2009 – when I left following an employment dispute – there was the same outcome.

    The ban, which was global, prevented me from making requests to any UK public authority for 20 months. It was eventually lifted after the intervention of Hugh Tomlinson QC on my behalf.

    Strangely, when I was finally free to place my first FOI request for very specific information relating to my dispute, the Council responded, “we don’t have it”.

    I appealed of course. This got immersed in bureaucratic to-ing and fro-ing, with the willing help of the “regulator”, the Information Commissioner’s Office and the whole thing petered out.

    FOIA, like so many US / UK pieces of legislation, is entirely self-serving.

  • Jan

    “a new redacted addressee does indeed appear, and unlike all the others does not have an FBI suffix after their deleted email address.” – That is incorrect. The original email has three recipients, all of whom have “(WF)(FBI)” after their name. After adding “for real”, there are four recipients, again all with “(WF)(FBI)”. The following email has five recipients, once again, all of them have “(WF)(FBI)”.

    • nevermind

      Tonight in my local pub saw Lee Vasey & friends were playing some excellent songs. Children were shaking rattles and drums handed out by the band, assured that their own electric guitars will cope with eager 2 year olds shaking/ biting the rattle handle.

      I am well known as an immigrant and EU supporter in that pub, but, there was not a single quib or faded/wrong slogan, just locals and groupies enjoying a good evening off.
      When you have been part of Europe for 47 years, but in reality have traded with them for 3000+ years, then I question this capitulating move to financial pirates touting offshore havens without a future.
      Bless their ignorance for they will reconcile.

      • Dungroanin

        No celebrations round here.

        Off – G back with an open thread with a tweet from cadwalladr of i.i on leaving the EU parliament! It could read either way. My feeling is THEY are all celebrating.

        So what about Kits twitter? Why is that not public?

  • Hatuey

    So, I have one question — is Nicola working for the British State? Maybe they have something on here, which amounts to the same thing. There’s something going on with the SNP. It isn’t just bad strategy and leadership; it’s something rancid and dark.

    • nevermind

      Somebody else mooted that Nicola is part of the establishment. She has now puahed back a second referendum to 2021, her usual delaying tactics.
      Lets hear the clappung of unionist lleavelanders….

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