Assange Bail Application Today 565


Unfortunately I am in lockdown at home in Edinburgh and cannot get down to Westminster Magistrates Court for Julian Assange’s urgent bail application today. Several hearings ago, Magistrate Baraitser stated pre-emptively that she would not grant bail, before any application had been made. Today’s application will argue that Assange’s ill health puts him at extreme danger from COVID-19, and that prison conditions make it impossible to avoid infection.

The government has stated that it is actively considering releasing some prisoners to reduce prison populations because of COVID-19. That a non-violent remand prisoner, whose current position is an innocent man facing charges in a foreign state, is in the fortress Belmarsh prison is already self-evidently ludicrous.

Both the British Government and Vanessa Baraitser personally came in for extreme criticism from the highly authoritative International Bar Association over both the conditions in which he is being held and over the conduct of his extradition hearing to date. This is from the International Bar Association’s own website:

The International Bar Association’s Human Rights Institute (IBAHRI) condemns the reported mistreatment of Julian Assange during his United States extradition trial in February 2020, and urges the government of the United Kingdom to take action to protect him. According to his lawyers, Mr Assange was handcuffed 11 times; stripped naked twice and searched; his case files confiscated after the first day of the hearing; and had his request to sit with his lawyers during the trial, rather than in a dock surrounded by bulletproof glass, denied.

The UK hearing, which began on Monday 24 February 2020 at Woolwich Crown Court in London, UK, will decide whether the WikiLeaks founder, Mr Assange, will be extradited to the US, where he is wanted on 18 charges of attempted hacking and breaches of the 1917 Espionage Act. He faces allegations of collaborating with former US army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning to leak classified documents, including exposing alleged war crimes in Afghanistan and Iraq. The hearing was adjourned after four days, with proceedings set to resume on 18 May 2020.

IBAHRI Co-Chair, the Hon Michael Kirby AC CMG, commented: ‘The IBAHRI is concerned that the mistreatment of Julian Assange constitutes breaches of his right to a fair trial and protections enshrined in the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, to which the UK is party. It is deeply shocking that as a mature democracy in which the rule of law and the rights of individuals are preserved, the UK Government has been silent and has taken no action to terminate such gross and disproportionate conduct by Crown officials. As well, we are surprised that the presiding judge has reportedly said and done nothing to rebuke the officials and their superiors for such conduct in the case of an accused whose offence is not one of personal violence. Many countries in the world look to Britain as an example in such matters. On this occasion, the example is shocking and excessive. It is reminiscent of the Abu Grahib Prison Scandal which can happen when prison officials are not trained in the basic human rights of detainees and the Nelson Mandela Rules.’

In accordance with the Human Rights Act 1998, which came into force in the UK in October 2000, every person tried in the UK is entitled to a fair trial (Article 6) and freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment (Article 3). Similarly, Article 10 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights upholds an individual’s right to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal.

IBAHRI Co-Chair, Anne Ramberg Dr jur hc, commented: ‘The IBAHRI concurs with the widespread concern over the ill-treatment of Mr Assange. He must be afforded equality in access to effective legal representation. With this extradition trial we are witnessing the serious undermining of due process and the rule of law. It is troubling that Mr Assange has complained that he is unable to hear properly what is being said at his trial, and that because he is locked in a glass cage is prevented from communicating freely with his lawyers during the proceedings commensurate with the prosecution.’

A recent report from Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture and Inhumane Treatment, presented during the 43rd session of the UN Human Rights Council (24 February – 20 March 2020), argues that the cumulative effects of Mr Assange’s mistreatment over the past decade amount to psychological torture. If Mr Assange was viewed as a victim of psychological torture, his extradition would be illegal under international human rights law.

117 medical doctors, including several world prominent experts in the field, had published a letter in the Lancet warning that Assange’s treatment amounts to torture and that he could die in jail.

Should Assange die in a UK prison, as the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture has warned, he will effectively have been tortured to death. Much of that torture will have taken place in a prison medical ward, on doctors’ watch. The medical profession cannot afford to stand silently by, on the wrong side of torture and the wrong side of history, while such a travesty unfolds.

You may recall that I myself concluded that the extraordinary and oppressive treatment of Assange, and the refusal of Baraitser to act to ameliorate it, could only be part of a deliberate policy to cause his death. I could, and can, think of no other possible explanation.

If the authorities now refuse to allow him out on bail during the Covid-19 outbreak, I do not see how anybody can possibly argue there is any intention other than to cause his death.

With grateful thanks to those who donated or subscribed to make this reporting possible.

This article is entirely free to reproduce and publish, including in translation, and I very much hope people will do so actively. Truth shall set us free.

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565 thoughts on “Assange Bail Application Today

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      • SA

        Kempe
        I know we don’t always see eye to eye but you do look at things from a different stance and you almost always answer and always in an intelligent matter. There are I am afraid some crackpots on this website and I was hoping that this warning would be addressed to them. It is also for mods to note to take down any outlandish comments. Unfortunately these same crackpots will also now complain that free speech is being stifled. I agree but in this case freedom of harmful and nonsensical speech is being stifled, which is a good thing. Please also my other comments especially my last one on another page on this site.
        https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/corona-virus-governemnt-takes-the-st-augustine-approach/

        • Kempe

          All in good time, I hadn’t forgotten.

          Amongst the agreed limits on free speech is anything that encourages self-harm or harm to others, especially children. Trying to scare people into not vaccinating with misinformation and downright lies and offering cures and treatments which are either ineffective or ineffective and downright dangerous seem to fall into those categories.

          • Magic Robot

            “The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.”
            Albert Camus

        • Rhys Jaggar

          SA

          There is actually a genuine argument to be had about quite how many vaccines it is safe to give young children. You know, cumulative dose effects, rather than any individual vaccine being inherently dangerous.

          Vaccine Adjuvants are not always the most healthy things to retain long-term in your body. Mercury was in the early ones (now mostly removed); Aluminium is not particularly good for you either, but it is in the vaccine adjuvants nowadays.

          The difficulty with the whole vaccine debate is that there is a huge group of totalitarians who try to shut down any reasoned debate by saying if you are not exactly of their mind then you are an ‘anti-vaxxer’.

          This is not an all-or-nothing debate, mostly it is a debate around ‘do we actually know what we are doing, vaccinating children a dozen times with no knowledge of what that is going to do to all of them?’

          The argument will only start to have really useful data after about 2040, when those multiply vaccinated children have mostly reproduced themselves.

          • SA

            Rhys
            With due respect the vaccine issue has not yet arisen in the case of Covid-19. I hope you have changed your mind about it being just another flu virus or no worse. The vaccine debate has been ongoing in another thread on this blog and I really feel it is a diversion to start talking about it here. Shall we stick to Covid-19 and its immediate impact before going onto many other topics?

          • Rhys Jaggar

            SA

            I absolutely have not changed my mind about CoVid19. There is zero data that it is causing more deaths than seasonal flu, zero.

            Show me real data that CoVid19 causes more deaths than seasonal flu, infects more people than seasonal flu.

            I am not interested in scaremongering media stories, I am solely interested in data on deaths, serious illness and the like.

            The data for the first 12 weeks of 2020 published by the UK Government states quite clearly that 2020 deaths from all causes are well down on 2017 and 2018. Well down.

            If you lie about that, you should be ashamed of yourself.

            You are going to find that there is a difference between dying of CoVid19 and dying with CoVid19.

            Making CoVid19 a notifiable disease means it will always be recorded on death certificates just by its presence, even if it is not the primary cause of death.

            Until you produce data showing that CoVid19 mortality greatly outweighs seasonal flu deaths and has not merely replaced a large chunk of them through changed reporting standards, my views will not change.

            I am immune to BBC nonsense, Neil Ferguson has publicly retracted his rubbish modelling predictions and you are yet to produce any data that says that CoVid19 is a truly horrifying prospect.

          • SA

            You obviously have no idea about epidemiology, infectious disease or pandemics. You cannot wait for data to show that half a million deaths have occurred before you can activate measures to stop an epidemic. In fact, you seem to be well aligned with Boris Johnson and Cummings on this one.
            The basis by which the current disease has been characterized is the that there were increased cases of severe pneumonias admitted to the hospitals in Wuhan in December 2019. The clinical picture of the markedly increased number of infections was that the suffered from ARDS (Acute respiratory distress syndrome) , sepsis and multi-organ failure, which is uncommon in general and in patients with Flu. This major increase in these patients alerted doctors to look for the cause because of recent experiences in the region with SARS Cov1 and MERS which presented with similar pictures in 2003 and 2012 respectively. These infections had caused death but were contained. Those dealing with these patients found a new virus (new to humans) and molecular characterization showed that it was a corona virus with great homology with a bat corona virus. The first extensive clinical study was published in this Lancet article:
            https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2930566-3
            It is true that of those who died many were elderly or had co-morbidities, But these co-morbidities are those that are common in this age group any way and these include diabetes, hypertension, but also ischemic heart disease, chronic lung disease and other more serious condition. It is also true that many were young and had no co-morbidities.
            Now if you look at any hospital admissions you will find a preponderance of elderly with these conditions, but you will also find these conditions in the same population of the same non-hospitalised patients. These conditions do not kill you necessarily at least not so acutely, but when you get admitted for other reasons to hospital diminish your chances of survival. This is true of any condition. But if you want to determine the cause of death you have to decide what has caused this death and in death certificates you will also add these co-morbidities. So basically, when you start seeing elderly and people with co-morbidities dying in big numbers with a clinical presentation that is not usual, you will ascribe these deaths to this condition. There are also other criteria but often in a new epidemic you have to act now and do the refinement later.
            It is not up to individuals to fathom all of these intricacies and we have organizations to look at this. The WHO and the CDC have looked at the data and accept that the cause of the increased death, in Wuhan initially, then the rest of China, Italy Spain and now elsewhere is due to the infection with the virus and not just that these people harbored the virus, and that is the association with the way they died. You don’t die with ARDS or multiorgan failure if you have hypertension, or if you are old but healthy or if you have controlled diabetes, these are background co-morbidities. But if you want to reject this evidence and this expert opinion then I am afraid you are out on a limb. You will have to convince me with your own interpretation of data, from reputable practicing sources that what you say has any credibility.
            “The data for the first 12 weeks of 2020 published by the UK Government states quite clearly that 2020 deaths from all causes are well down on 2017 and 2018. Well down.
            If you lie about that, you should be ashamed of yourself.”
            This sort of ignorant statement is really beyond the pale. We are at the start of an epidemic and whether the current mortality rate is still low means nothing. Please wait till the end of 2020 to see if this still holds. It is you who should be ashamed for abandoning science for the sake of conspiracy theories.

          • Christopher Dale Rogers

            Rhys,

            I understand you are a most objective poster who believes concerns about SARS-COV2 Covid-19 are overblown, and that no evidence exists to suggest Covid-19 has a greater mortality impact than Influenza, which presently for Seasonal Flu stands at 0.1% of known infections.

            I’m absolutely with you with as regards scientific understanding and datasets that give a pretty clear mortality rate for Covid-19, obviously this is a new pathogen and most collated data thus far can go back to the beginning of December 2019.

            That said, we’ve had some ideal situation for clinical observation to be undertaken in a rather confined space and timeline, namely clinical papers with a focus on the Diamond Princess, which was quarantined in Japanese waters as a result of a Covid-19 outbreak.

            Further, the Diamond Princess operates in multiple ports in the Asia Pacific region, and was operating as normal in waters where most nations had called the Seasonal Flu outbreak, which this year in our neck of the woods began in early January, as such, we are aware, as with the general population, that the ship was carrying persons with this years seasonal flu strain, so, here we have an ideal case study to determine if Covid-19 is actually striking more persons dead, rather than seasonal flu, or any other underlying illness a passenger may have.

            Looking back at the same first quarter for 2018 and 2019 no deaths were recorded on any of the Diamond Princess sailings, meaning of course no passengers suffered a mortality as a result of Influenza on board ship.

            We now know that Covid-19 infected a large number of passengers and crew, and of those testing positive by RT-PCR swab testing, which as a routine involves Influenza testing also (usually a minimum of two swabs taken for each laboratory test) a number of persons were not only observed becoming infected, but their health up until morbidity was clinically observed and recorded.

            As it stands, 10 deaths have been recorded this year, and again, no death notices whatsoever were given for passengers in 2018/19.

            The published research has much data, caveats and warnings from the authors themselves, but the fact remains, 10 deaths aboard a passenger liner were attributed to Covid-19 under excellent clinical conditions, and no deaths were attributed to influenza, which, again has a mortality rate of 0.1%, so, something I’m afraid must have caused these deaths, and given this cruise ship has a capacity to handle 3,700 crew and passengers, of which 0.1 may die of flu, the difference between 3.7 deaths and an actual 10 deaths attributed to Covid 19 is quite stark, again given no such deaths occurred last year or the year before that were Influenza related.

            Anyway, this is a decent paper and worth looking at: https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.10.2000180

          • Rhys Jaggar

            Chris

            I agree with you that the data onboard the cruise liner is clear, but that is a small population. I am not disagreeing that CoVid19 is not highly infectious but I am sure you could take statistics from Russia in January 2020 and prove conclusively that many people died of influenza and no-one died of SARS-CoVid2.

            Does that prove that flu virus is more virulent than SARS-CoVid2: of course not. It does nothing of the sort.

            Epidemics occur on a quasi-random basis. They start, they grow exponentially and, in almost all cases, die out.

            We have already seen that in China the epidemic has completely died out. Now the flu can kill Chinese again instead of SARS-CoV2, Is anyone counting Chinese deaths now from flu? I hope so, because it is utterly unacceptable not to.

            I really, really wish people would stop saying I deny that this is a real epidemic, that it is or is not more virulent than flu. I have said nothing of the sort, I have merely said that the absolute global hysteria over a disease which is not going to kill 100 million people is completely out of kilter with the true situation.

            My personal view is that several people on this site should be forced to self-isolate each and every winter until the day they die because influenza virus will be present in the population each and every winter and they will be helping to klil people by going out, going on holiday, having an evening out socialising etc etc.

            Your choice, your consequences.

            But any more of your absolute rubbish about this disease and any more of your fear porn and that is how the rest of your lives must be lived out.

            OK?

      • Rhys Jaggar

        This is hardly surprising: Gordon Brown was always known as a control-freak micromanaging totalitarian sort of leader.

        I had hoped that becoming a father might have tempered his Weltanschauung, but it appears that it did not.

      • SA

        I agree, this is terrifying. Of course in an ideal situation it could work but only if real power is shared and not dominated. The two examples of the UN and WHO do not bode well. The UN is totally dominated by US, UK and France vetoes, and the WHO is mainly ignored for political reasons.
        Gordon Brown should keep a low profile. He had the opportunity to nationalise the banks but he instead socialised the profits to the bankers without curbing or controlling their greed which led to the collapse in the first place, The fact that Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, both mass murderers are still allowed to proffer their distorted views is an indictment of our society.

    • Magic Robot

      “After 1933, the local Blockleiter was in charge of spreading propaganda and developing an acceptance to the policies of the NSDAP among the households (typically 40 to 60) in his area. It was also the duty of the Blockleiter to spy on the population and report any anti-Nazi activities to the local Gestapo office; this allowed a Nazi terror state. This was helped by keeping files on each household (Haushaltskarten). Due to such activities, Blockleiters were particularly disliked by the general population.” (Wikipedia).

      Try substituting ‘snitch’ for ‘Blockleiter’,
      ‘anti-vaxxer’ for ‘anti-Nazi’,
      and then we see:

      ‘The very thing we were fighting against, has been foisted on us under another name’
      Alfred Noyes, from ‘The Edge of the Abyss’ pub. 1942.

    • SA

      This editorial don’t seem to get it. How can there be ‘victims’ when there was no crime?
      “If nothing else, this is a difficult environment for victims.”
      The implication here is that anyone anywhere who accuses anybody of sexual crimes has to be believed even when a court finds the accused innocent. In fact this dangerous approach has already been discredited in the case of Carl Beech which I think cost Tom Watson his career.
      https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/26/tom-watson-accused-whipping-moral-panic-false-paedophile-ring-claim-10467961/

      • Alisdair Mc

        SA,

        Agreed. There is also the case of Mark Pearson. The way that CPS actually slowed-down the tape for the jury to decide absolutely disgust me. I wonder how he is doing now? Anonymity for the accused until proved otherwise.

      • Mary

        Much more than that cost Watson his career. He packed it in last December. He’s disgusting..

        ”In December 2015, Watson spoke about Labour members who took part in a vigil against proposed UK airstrikes on Syria outside the office of Stella Creasy MP, saying that “if there were Labour party members on that [anti-war] demonstration, intimidating staff members of an MP like that, then I think they should be removed from the party.” His spokesman later said that Watson was unaware that the office was empty at the time.

        In October 2016, Watson abstained, along with 100 other Labour MPs who abstained on or voted against the Labour Party’s unsuccessful motion to withdraw UK support from the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen. The Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen had led to thousands of civilian casualties.

        Watson announced in October 2017 that he had gone on hunger strike, in support of two Guantánamo Bay detainees also on hunger strike, after the US government changed its policy on prisoners who refuse food; they will not be fed at all, instead of being force fed.

        Watson is a member of the Labour Friends of Israel and, in 2002, was a leading candidate for the chairmanship alongside Stephen Byers. He is Vice Chair of Trade Union Friends of Israel (TUFI).’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Watson_(Labour_politician)

        Says it all. He has lost 8 stone, (he was 22 stone!) and intends to become a fitness instructor..

      • Mary

        Where’s the conspiracy? Other than ridiculing Trump’s assertions.

        US coronavirus: Dr Fauci throws cold water on Trump’s …www.dailymail.co.uk › news › article-8158519 › US-coronavirus-Dr-…
        9 hours ago – The government’s top infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci has again cast doubt on President Donald Trump’s proposal to end coronavirus shutdowns by Easter. ‘I think what the President was trying to do, he was making an aspirational projection to give people some hope …

        ‘Where’s Fauci?’ America panics as doctor absent again from …www.theguardian.com › world › mar › dr-fauci-press-conference-whi…
        3 days ago – Where was Dr Anthony Fauci, the 79-year-old infectious disease expert who has become a regular fixture and a calming presence alongside the …

        Steph Curry’s interview with Dr. Fauci is his most impactful movewww.usatoday.com › nba › columnist › mark-medina › 2020/03/26
        11 hours ago – Nearly 50000 tuned in and saw what makes Stephen Curry such a respected leader during an informative talk with Dr. Anthony Fauci about …

        Trump supporters turn on White House disease expert Dr Fauciwww.independent.co.uk › News › World › Americas › US politics
        1 day ago – Fringe supporters of Donald Trump have turned on the White House disease expert Dr Anthony Fauci, as rumours about tension between the …

      • Loony

        That website has nothing to do with the BBC – the most pervasive of all conspiracy websites.

        I note your previous comments regarding epidemiology. Do you have any explanation for the markedly different death rates being recorded in Italy and Germany? Do you have any explanation why 10 days ago Professor Neil Ferguson of Imperial College estimated a UK death toll of 500,000 has now downgraded his estimates to around 20,000 (of which approximately half would be expected to die in the near term of other illnesses or diseases).

        Sunetra Gupta of Oxford University has in the past days advanced a thesis that up to 50% of the UK population may have already been exposed to Coronavirus. If true this would dramatically reduce the death rate attributable to this disease. Do you have any objective reason to prefer the analysis of Imperial College over that of Oxford University or vice versa?

        A number of people with expertise in virology claim that wearing face masks can limit the transmission of coronavirus – the British government has taken the exact opposite view. Do you know why this is?

        Russia seems to have a relatively contained problem with coronavirus. Russia was one of the first countries to effectively close its borders in an attempt to protect itself. Various officials from the EU are on record as claiming that border closures would do nothing to prevent the spread of the disease. Aside from current disease incidence do you have any objective reason to prefer the Russian view over the EU view or vice versa.

        Logical, coherent answers to questions such as these may well serve to undermine the popularity of conspiracy theories or conspiracy websites.

        • David

          Loony, comparitive death rates, good question, which should just be prefixed with FREE ASSANGE! anyway, there’s a clue here :- https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Numbers-of-critical-care-beds-corrected-for-size-of-population-per-100-000-inhabitants_fig1_229013572

          which is a freely visible Research Gate page, with a bar graph, [sadly from 2010 data] comparing the numbers of critical care beds corrected for size of population (per 100,000 inhabitants) for European countries.

          from this decade old data, Germany had double the effective available ICU [& proportional respirators] compared to Italy, which amazingly had double the number of ICU respirators compared to the UK NHS at the end of the Blair/Brown labour period.

          I’m sure ten years of austerity, nudges, spin, casino-banking and careful brexshit madness have improved the UK’s standing in this particular international league table? Yes?

          In this old, but peer reviewed data, Italy had above the EU average of ICU/respiration systems, whilst Blair/Brown NHS had around half of the EU average. I’ve no idea where Russia would fit in this table, the data wasn’t given, but I’m sure that I read recently that they were well supplied – hence presumably why the Russian donation recently of 600 respirators to italy went ahead. (Of course this is now being spun, nudged as “useless”, by “unnamed sources” – aren’t our glorious spooks also ill?)

          BREAKING: get well soon PM, get a royal armful of survivor plasma antibodies and you’ll (presumably) be fine

        • SA

          Thank you
          Professor Neil Ferguson has toned down his initial prediction but only if strict precautions are followed which I am afraid is not the case.
          https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196477/j-ideas-neil-ferguson-tells-mps-lockdown/
          I am afraid I cannot comment about the Oxford study. It has yet to be published in a peer reviewed journal. It is highly theoretical and based purely on mathematical modelling. Without more robust data, which is totally lacking, such as the true incidence of people who show an immune reaction to the virus through an antibody test, we cannot confirm any of this.
          As to face masks. There are many grades of face masks, those you see people wearing in the streets are almost certainly useless and possibly harmful because of a false sense of security. They will only filter large droplets and would have to be changed frequently. Other masks would be more protective and these higher grade masks are still not yet widely available to the NHS staff.
          The Russian approach was the correct one in that travel between countries is the best way of spreading the pandemic. For example some football matches were not cancelled even when it became clear that this could be hazardous and fans travelled from Italy to Lyon and I think from Spain to Liverpool, but I am not sure of the details.
          In a pandemic there the guidelines are to limit movement, to identify and isolate cases, to trace contacts early and even isolate them until clear, together with of course treating the sick. None of these measures have been fully introduced or in a timely manner in UK.
          Why is mortality so high in Italy? We don’t for sure know yet, but there are possibly many factors that have been discussed: These are, the ageing population in North Italy, possible different strain of virus (no hard evidence) air pollution contributing to lower resistance and overwhelming of the healthcare system. The later is particularly the case when you realise that about 75% of the cases and deaths have occurred in Lombardy, if more spread out, it may have been less deadly.
          Hope I have answered some of your questions.

          • Tatyana

            SA, it was suggested that daily habits play a large role. In Italy, people are accustomed to close contacts, they hug and kiss when meeting and love to gather in big companies.

          • SA

            Yes Tatyana, that too and they also like big extended family gatherings. And the French do that too. What do the Russians do?

          • Tatyana

            Well, we hug and kiss too, but with very close friends and family only.

            We have habit to take off our street shoes and outerwear on coming home, and wash hands immediately. We wash hands before meals. And we wash ourselves with running water, never with water from a plugged sink.

            We undergo regular medical examinations, me myself just finished this. A complete clinical examination, quite quickly because separate resources were allocated for it by my country. Everything is free of charge, I was only advised to pass one test that is not covered by the general health insurance. It cost me about 10Euro, but allowed the doctor to accurately calculate the dose of vitamin D for me. In a month I’m passing new free test to see how vit D works.

            Today 1036 people are infected by Covid-19 in Russia. 3 died. 45 recovered.

            We keep distance, today I bought vit D and saw it with my own eyes – people wait in the street, because the pharmacy room is small. I also went shopping today, there are lines on the floor to mark distance and transparent screens for checkout staff.
            We have paid days-off the whole next week.

          • Tatyana

            I think I must clarify. The medical examination is not related to the virus, this is a regular state program. People can do this in their clinic every year.

        • Vivian O'Blivion

          There’s a hell of a lot of POLITICAL manipulation going on here. Outright LIES and conscious OMISSIONS perpetrated to MANAGE the populus. The British Medical Association journal, The Lancet IS recommending face masks. Given the rioting in supermarket aisles over bog roll, the Government chooses to lie and declare face masks 100% ineffective. Practical response is being led by the people and non-governmental bodies. The FA and SFA put the football calendar into stasis, not the Government.
          I tend to believe that Boris Johnson has been tested positive. Charles Windsor on the other hand is as likely as not broadcasting a false positive diagnosis as part of that program of political manipulation. “Now we’re all in this together!”

          • SA

            Viv
            Emotions apart, the problem is there is no data to support that N95 respirators are any more efficient than paper masks. There is not much data around but here is an RCT addressing this question for flu:
            “Conclusions and Relevance:
            Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31479137

            And here is another article that confirms that there are policies but they have not been properly validated for use of paper masks versus cloth respirators.
            “Currently, there are significant variations in the policies and recommendations around mask and respirator use for protection against influenza, SARS and TB. These differences may reflect the scarcity of level-one evidence available to inform policy development. The lack of any guidelines on the use of cloth masks, despite widespread use in many low and middle-income countries, remains a policy gap. Health organizations and countries should jointly evaluate the available evidence, prioritize research to inform evidence gaps, and develop consistent policy on masks and respirator use in the health care setting.”
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23725338

          • Christopher Dale Rogers

            Vivian O’Blivion,

            The fact is, the only reasons the blighters are doing anything, and what measures they are undertaking will hardly stem the tide – its got so many exceptions and holes in it that it resembles a sieve, is this observation, namely, the pathogen has been rather egalitarian in its transmission and replication, and thus posed a significant threat to the UK’s powers that be, who, are hardly spring chickens.

            Had the distribution of this pathogen been consigned to all those in poverty, all those with chronic medical conditions, and all those the State would like to remove from society as Welfare Queens, you can bet your bottom dollar no actions whatsoever would have been undertaken, which is the position Cummings and his funny behaviour psychology nutter friends wanted to impose.

            Indeed, their opinion of the NHS is such that infections and death among its staff, thus reducing its effectiveness once more, would have been used as another bat to ensure full privatisation and move to an Insurance-based model, where only the wealthy receive medical attention for conditions caused by their gluttony.

            Of course the fact that up to 5% of your core voting constituency being removed by death, must also be considered, given the numbers of those over 60 effectively participating in their own suicide only last December – its not as if these mobsters are popular with anyone under 40.

      • nevermind

        He is just talking about overall deathrates, not about acute 8nfection rates or the strenght of infection compated to others

        Pretty flat argument

  • Jack

    Just read that Boris Johnson is infected with Corona,
    I cannot understand that the world leaders isnt more careful,

    • SA

      From Wikipedia page of Professor Neil Ferguson
      Ferguson reported on 18 March 2020 that he had developed the symptoms of pandemic Covid-19, and self-isolated.[10] If indeed infected, he was probably infectious when he attended a Downing Street press conference two days before, and had been advising Prime Minister Boris Johnson.[11]

    • Tatyana

      that’s how more knowledge of politics makes a person less humane — I’m an example of this — when I saw that Johnson became infected, I said “wow!” and also “whoa!” and even “Yippee!”
      I’m wicked woman, muhaha 🙂

    • SA

      Charles Windsor, develops mild symptoms tests positive.
      Boris Johnson develops symptoms tests positive.
      Numerous NHS staff in the front line denied testing told to go home instead and infect their familys
      WE ARE ALL IN IT TOGETHER

      • Tom74

        It’s this kind of thing that really makes me suspicious about the entire narrative. I don’t know anyone with the coronavirus so how come the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister both announce they have it within the same week? Surely too if the virus is so potentially dangerous, Johnson should step aside for a while not be leading the country at a time of almost unprecedented crisis. Sorry, but there are pretty clearly other agendas at play here, and the British public are being shafted.

        • giyane

          Tom 74

          Keyworkers are allowed to work and get exposed to the virus, because they are helping others to deal with the virus. Isolation slows down the numbers who are exposed so that the hospitals aren’t swamped by people getting ill at the same time. None of us are very good at staying at home, but we should be kind to ourselves and not panic. The ambulance crew are good at telling us that it’s perfectly safe falling out of a plane, until the moment we actually touch the ground.

        • glenn_uk

          Tom: Head on down to your local hospital. Tell them you’re ready to volunteer, and see for yourself whether or not this is hoax.

  • Tatyana

    someone remind Johnson that Porton Down got a good amount of taxpayers’ money because of the Novichok story. Looks like now that’s an excellent opportunity to work out grants

    • Tatyana

      Oh, recalling that story – I think Mr. Gavin Williamson should insert new locks on the door and stock up with ammo, in anticipation of a possible raid on his famous toilet paper supply 🙂

      • glenn_uk

        If you think this is a “scam”, perhaps you should go to your nearest large hospital, and find out for yourself.

        At least you’ve taken a break from advocating the torture of children – that’s some progress.

        • Loony

          It is definitely a scam – but the exact nature of the scam is not exactly clear.

          It seems like only 10 days ago that Professor Neil Ferguson was advising the government that some 500,000 UK citizens were likely to die from coronavirus. It seems like only yesterday that he revised his opinion to about 20,000 (half of whom are in any event likely to die of other causes in the near term) and that the NHS was unlikely to be overwhelmed.

          It seems like only today that the media either ignored or spun this information as being perfectly reasonable given the actions undertaken by the UK government. Naturally no-one mentions that his original analysis was a scenario based analysis and under EVERY scenario the NHS would be overwhelmed with cases.

          Meanwhile the US has unleashed a $2 trillion money printing scam with overt promises that the money printing is to be undertaken without limit. The British have lowered their interest rates to 0.1% This compares with a floor of 2% for the duration World War 2 – and so presumably the emergency must be far worse that WW2. Naturally no-one ever explains how they know that coronavirus os more dangerous to the world than a global armed conflict.

          Is it not odd that people all too willing to believe that the government is torturing Julian Assange , that the Anglo-American war machine engaged in the mass illegal slaughter of uncounted Iraqi’s, and that President Trump is a manifestation of pure evil also seem to believe that governments are now acting out of pure altruism. They are actively seeking to destroy the entire economy in order to safeguard the public from a virus. A virus with a death rate of likely around 3& – but an actual death rate that governments have conspired to make incalculable.

          Only evil people like President Trump would dare to point out that it is highly probable that more people will die by suicide than as a consequence of the virus. Suicide being a known reaction to economic catastrophe and a known reaction to fear and despair – something that the media is doing its very best to foster and cosset through its unending obsession with virus related deaths.

          • glenn_uk

            You know _why_ Ferguson changed his prediction? Because the government policy completely changed. Didn’t you know that, or are you trying to deceive?

            Trump has said so many flat out wrong, contradictory or utterly false things about Covid-19 from flat out denial to magical thinking. He didn’t even know that people died of seasonal flu – that’s how brilliant your hero is.

            Your other rambling statements don’t appear to be connected to this point.

          • Loony

            The point relates to whether or not the Coronavirus pandemic is a scam.

            I merely pointed to a number of inconsistencies in apparent understanding and policy decisions that flow from this understanding. I would be interested to learn how you, or anyone else, can plausibly believe that the printing of vast amounts of money can have an effect on a virus.

            Despite making blanket but emotive statements designed to convey your impression that there is no scam in operation you appear entirely disinterested in forming any intelligent understanding. Rather your contribution is confined, as it normally is, to making ad-hominem statements against President Trump and smearing and insulting anyone and everyone who refuses to join your in your infinitely expanded 2 minutes of hate against the President.

          • Ian

            What a mix the usual garbled nonsense, straw men and alt-right talking points. Might as well call it the Fox News summary. Best ignore and move on. Plainly someone with a lot of time on his hands, a sneering disdain for anybody outside of the orbit of the bloviating self-styled pseudo intellectual right.

          • SA

            It is to me quite clear that Loony is an agent provocateur of the worst kind. I would ignore him and I will from now on. Rule one just don’t feed the trolls.
            As to Rhys he is just simply misguided and there is nothing more difficult to open than a closed mind. People might start to die in the streets for him to be convinced but even then he might say that it was BBC lies. Fortunately some of those who write here have kept a low profile and have not come up with the stress actors theory.
            In these times these people are dangerous.
            By the way what happened to Loony’s undying admiration for Trump?

          • Rhys Jaggar

            SA

            I absolutely do NOT have a closed mind.

            I absolutely do NOT deny that people are dying with CoVid19.

            I absolutely DO deny that we are about to experience the Black Death, Spanish Flu or anything remotely like it.

            I absolutely DO deny that total lock down has any evidentiary proof to being superior to the strategy of South Korea, where life has gone on as normal, testing has been rigorous, as has follow up of those potentially at risk.

            I absolutely DO deny that the threat to human life from CoVid19 is greater than that which happens every year from influenza, cancer, heart disease, alcohol abuse, car crashes, suicide and several other diseases, none of which causes absolute lock down of our economy.

            I absolutely DO deny that Neil Ferguson changed his predictions for any reason other than that he was being called out as a typical lying charlatan who has done this before, notably with Foot and Mouth and then with SARS. He needed to find a get-out-of-jail-free clause and he has been brutally called out by the head of the US Covid task force.

            I am getting pretty sick and tired of unqualified idiots telling me what I believe.

          • Magic Robot

            Loony
            The media also ignored – totally – the de-classification of the ‘virus’ by Public Health England and the NHS, and also by The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) from HCID (high consequence infectious disease) status on the 19th March to, well, nothing worse than, well, they did not say.

            Anyway, the usual suspects here are determined (motives unclear) to keep up the hysteria, no matter what. They seem to have a ‘belief’ shall I say?

        • George

          I agree it’s a scam. The USA govt. is broke, something had to happen. Look at the amount of stock that was sold cashed in January. Even the Amazon owner Jeff Bezos cashed in nigh time.
          A good program to watch is today’s Uk column program.

          https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-27th-march-2020

          At least it provided an honest view of the situation.

          Where did the virus come from us military lab ?

          Who are the people being impacted and killed in the USA. Trump supporters.

          I could give so many examples, but that will be for another day.

          • Giyane

            George

            Yes, of course it’s a scam , and of course they can create such a virus anytime.
            What else are places like Porton Down for?
            We are unable to penetrate the vermicious machinations of the neocons’ minds.
            All we know is that the War on Terror was a scam, Islamic State was a scam and the 2007 bank crash was a total scam.

            It’s not YCNMIU, its YCMIU, which is scary.

            When the previous scam merchants start crawling out of the woodwork asking for global government, evacuate immediately.
            Not physically. Just don’t even go there in our limited capacity for evil minds.

            But leaving the psychopaths in power alone, we still have to cope with a new virus,each and everyone of us , except of course the psychopaths in power who had vaccines from day 1.

          • Giyane

            Boris probably knows the best ingredients for making a sore throat, ,I don’t know, Vim and shoe polish , from years of truanting from Eton to go shagging. I went to a public school, I’ve seen it done.

        • Rhys Jaggar

          You are saying that you feel tortured by me, you stupid little boy?

          To explain in language you can understand:

          1. CoVid19 is a real condition, affecting real patients, the vast majority of whom are very old, have pre-existing medical conditions.
          2. Official Government statistics, which you Glenn believe unquestioningly, show that total deaths from all causes in the first 12 weeks of 2020 in the UK are LESS than in 2017 and 2018.
          3. The UK health service has been run down relentlessly for 20 years by accountants focussing solely on the ability to manage the kind of medicine which is regular and predictable, not one-off epidemics.
          4. The number of deaths with CoVid19 present has in no way remotely approached the number of deaths recorded regularly by influenza virus, nor is it remotely at the level of deaths caused by cancer, heart disease, alcohol abuse, smoking and any other number of commonly accepted forms of death. Dying through any of those causes is no less unpleasant than dying with CoVid19, which if you knew the first thing about medicine you would be more than aware of.
          5. There is no evidence that lockdown is producing any more beneficial results in medical terms: go compare Sweden and other Nordic countries. Go look at South Korea and how they are getting on. Rigorous testing of ill people, rigorous isolation of those shown to be harbouring virus and rigorous follow-up to contact those having been in contract with those showing symptoms has proven every bit as effective as putting an entire nation under house arrest.

          Now as you have made false accusations about me, I will offer you the chance to unreservedly withdraw your accusation about me torturing children, the alternative will be me asking Mr Murray to ban you from this site. That would not cause any worry to anyone who contributes here.

          SCAMS are when events are used by authorities to slip through actions utterly unnecessary to handling the event but having long-term loss of liberties for an entire population.

          This SCAM is going to be used by the PTB to try and eliminate all cash transactions (what does that have to do with anything other than mass surveillance of all transactions removing all privacy?); to force all people to have whatever vaccinations any govenrment ever sees fit, with no liability on any manufacturer for killing patients; and to completely crash an economy so thoroughly that it may never recover before 2050.

          If you think crashing an economy will not end up killing people, you are unfit to engage in any debate about politics, young man.

          • Loony

            I would not be prepared to take a bet that you have written in language they can understand.

            However you make some salient points. One certainty from the current situation is the initiation of more money printing. A known consequence of money printing is that it increases wealth inequality. It is odd that those who warn of both the iniquity and dangers of policies designed to exacerbate wealth inequality are derided as “agent provocateurs” and “alt-right trolls”

            It is almost as though the writers of such thoughts think they have something to gain by the economic destruction of the masses. Let us hope that such people do not have the brass neck to claim that they are motivated by compassion for the poor. Their sneering contempt for the already dispossessed and the soon to be dispossessed is plain for all to see. Of course the real joke is that they are themselves members of the ranks of the soon to be dispossessed. Self loathing is not an admirable quality.

          • Dom

            Hold on, the conspiracy theory hard men have arrived. The lock/shutdown is an elaborate confidence trick apparently, intended to force people into abandoning cash and having vaccinations. Clear as day to the conspiracy theory hard men cos they’re cleverer than everyone else.

          • Loony

            @Dom – A commonly accepted definition of “conspiracy theory” is a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for an unexplained event”

            I have no idea whether the lockdown is an elaborate confidence trick. I do know that there is conflicting opinions regarding coronavirus from the institutions of Oxford University and Imperial College. Neither Oxford University nor Imperial College would meet most peoples definitions of a “covert but influential organization” Even if that test fails, which it does not, you are still left with the problem that coronavirus is not an unexplained event. Only its root origins and ultimate effects are debatable or unknown. The fact that it exists is not debatable.

            There is no doubt that Central Banks are keen to explore negative interest rates and that in order to do so they must first eliminate cash as a medium of exchange. There is a wide range of “learned papers” on this matter emanating from institutions ranging from universities to central banks to the IMF to the BIS. It is hardly a conspiracy to reference documentary evidence produced by such august institutions.

            Politicians and the media talk almost incessantly about progress toward a vaccine for Coronavirus. It seem logical to assume that should a viable vaccination be produced then there will be a public health imperative to ensure that the public are vaccinated against the virus.

            Based on known facts it would appear impossible to conclude that your comment was made in good faith. Rather what you write does not even rise to the level of tarradiddle, rather it simple smear and innuendo.

        • Magic Robot

          Public Health England’s (PHE) epidemic intelligence activities monitor global HCID (high consequence infectious disease) events. These are published in a monthly summary in the form of a downloadable pdf file. The summaries followed monthly, through 2019, right up to the December bulletin, thus:

          https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/863349/Global_high_consequence_infectious_disease_events_December_2019.pdf

          In that issue, the monthly update for December 2019 we have, quote:
          ‘Undiagnosed Disease Events Wuhan, Hubei Province, China. In late December, an outbreak of viral pneumonia of unknown aetiology was identified in Wuhan. Many, but not all cases were linked with a seafood and live animal market in the city (Huanan South China Seafood Market). The cause was subsequently identified as a novel coronavirus. a full update will be provided in the January 2020 summary.’

          No information is given at all as to who, how, where or when the cause became known, and no further bulletins have been publicly issued since!

          But then, a new single webpage format report was issued by the UK government thus:

          https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

          Quote:
          ‘Covid-19 has not been an HCID in the UK since the 19th March 2020, when it was declassified by PHE and the NHS, and also by The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) who were also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.

          An HCID is defined as:
          an acute infectious disease
          typically has a high case-fatality rate
          may not have effective prophylaxis or treatment
          often difficult to recognise and detect rapidly
          ability to spread in the community and within healthcare settings
          requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely’

          (I suggest anyone accessing the official de-classification notice above, makes a hard copy and show it, or give it, to as many folk as you can.)

          Yet, on the very same day this ‘virus’ was de-classified, Prime Minister Boris Johnson then announced measures unheard of in a supposed ‘democracy’ – ‘lockdowns’, threats, no freedom to work or take recreation. A curfew in all but name, and, if the rest of the world is anything to go by, soon to become martial law.

          This has become a political, not a medical, matter. Please, get the message out.

  • giyane

    Tatyana

    Ariel sings

    Where the bee sucks, there suck I:
    In a cowslip’s bell I lie;
    There I couch when owls do cry.
    On the b a t ‘ s back I do fly
    After summer merrily.
    Merrily, merrily shall I live now
    Under the blossom that hangs on the bough.

    William Shakespeare
    A Midsummer Night’s Dream

    Oberon “I know a bank where the wild thyme blows, Where oxlips and the nodding violet grows, Quite over-canopied with luscious woodbine, With sweet musk-roses and with eglantine.”.
    I think I might be able to change your heartless feelings towards our PM.

    • nevermind

      If he miraculously recovers within two weeks and nurses and doctors are still buying their own protective PPE, whilst testing is still in the 6-10k/day then I believe he deserves Tatyanas ire as much as ours.

      Health and happiness to all, hope the police and firebrigade will also receive PPE.
      Careworkers, doctors and nurses should have priority testing, PM’s come and go.

      • Tatyana

        Yes, health and happiness to all!
        Take care and wash your hands, people, wash your hands as thoroughly as you would wash Angelina Jolie (or Brad Pitt option for women 🙂 🙂 🙂 )

    • Tatyana

      giyane, I’m evil today 🙂

      “If you’re looking for trouble
      You came to the right place
      If you’re looking for trouble
      Take a look right at my faaaaaaaaace…

      ‘Cause I’m evil, my middle name is misery
      Well I’m evil, so don’t you mess around with me”

      the same play by Shakespeare, Bog King by Alan Cummings in the ‘Strange Magic’ recast

      • Republicofscotland

        Speaking of misery Tatyana, do you think Putin’s new ruse to stay in power, will see him surpass Stalin’s reign?

        Is he (Putin) trying to emulate Xi Jingpin, whose now president of China, until further notice.

        As for the Coronavirus, I get the sneaky feeling that the British state media aren’t admitting to the real total in deaths, more so in England. What of Russia and the virus during these difficult and testing times, are there many deaths, or not for that matter, and do you believe the authorities when they tell you a specific number of those who’ve died.

        RT news is rather coy on the figures within Russia, but its pretty clear on the death rates elsewhere.

        I hope you and your family are safe and well.

        • Tatyana

          Republicofscotland,
          I think that if Assange, instead of hiding in London, escaped to Russia like Snowden, then perhaps you would also have welcomed Putin to remain in power for as long as possible 🙂 See what the change of leader in Ecuador has done to Assange!

          On the virus we have
          https://xn--80aesfpebagmfblc0a.xn--p1ai/#
          I haven’t seen a refutation of this data anywhere. I think that in the era of the Internet, social networks, Luke Harding and Bellingcat, it would be extremely difficult to hide many deaths in Russia.

          • Republicofscotland

            “then perhaps you would also have welcomed Putin to remain in power for as long as possible ”

            Then it obvious by that statement Tatyana that Russia isn’t a full democracy. Putin is no Cincinnatus, he should have relinquished the power of Russian president by now; that’s what happens in a full democracy.

          • Tatyana

            Republicofscotland, are you religious? I only observed this in religious people. They believe it’s important to follow the ritual despite of the rainy weather relevancy to the situation.
            Putin suggested amendments to the constitution, one of them re. extra presidential terms. We are voting on the amendments April 22. Everyone understands it will give Putin LEGAL base to be re-elected.
            When you say it’s not democracy I feel surprised. What IS democracy then? To change Putin for someone else? Why should we, if we don’t want to? Are you certain that we are obligated to follow the current law from 1991, despite of the people’s preference TODAY? Why?

          • Republicofscotland

            “Republicofscotland, are you religious”

            Not in the slightest.

            “What IS democracy then? To change Putin for someone else?”

            To hold fair and free elections.

            “Why should we, if we don’t want to? ”

            I take it you speak for the 150 million Russian folk then.

          • Tatyana

            Republicofscotland,
            So, you’re concerned about fairness and freedom of elections. And you said previously “Putin’s new ruse to stay in power”.
            Ruse is a new english word for me, so I referred to the dictionary and it shows synonyms:

            хитрость
            cunning, trick, stealth, trickery, guile, ruse

            уловка
            trick, ploy, ruse, stratagem, gimmick, dodge

            Well, frankly speaking, i find your definition stupid and offensive, sorry.
            Stupid, because there’s nothing more democratic than asking the people about their desire, and it is exactly what is proposed by Putin – referendum.
            Offensive, because your definition “Putin’s ruse” hints that we are all just a herd of stupid cattle here in Russia, unable to decide what is better for ourselves.

            Of course, I don’t speak for all Russians, but for a very large and significant part of the population – adult taxpayers with families and domestic income, relatively young to be open to the whole world without communist prejudice, but old enough to compare modern Russia with Soviet union.

            And, quite frankly, when WE in OUR country will vote for OUR future, at that moment I will be least interested in the opinion of the Republic of Scotland, and indeed of any other country.
            It’s called independence. Do you know the meaning of this word?

            независимость
            independence, freedom, independency, detachment, self-support, self-sufficiency

          • Republicofscotland

            “Of course, I don’t speak for all Russians,”

            Really that’s not the impression I get from that comment.

            “Stupid, because there’s nothing more democratic than asking the people about their desire, and it is exactly what is proposed by Putin ”

            Asking people what they want and delivering it, is two different things.

            “And, quite frankly, when WE in OUR country will vote for OUR future, ”

            Oops looks like I hit a nerve there Tatyana, WE, OUR, no need to be so defensive, I’m not Jens Stolenberg.

            You’re obviously a Putinista, I’ll leave it there.

            Have a great day and stay safe.

          • Tatyana

            You’ve found the word to attach to me, but I’m unable to find it in the dictionaries. Now, I sincerely want to know what meaning do you personally put into the word?

            Obviously, you cannot dispute that I have the right to my own opinion. And obviously you can’t just dislike people who disagree with you. You are not Mary Whitehouse type, I recall.

            So will you now hate me? Despise me? Respect me? Support me? What?

          • Pooh

            Dear Tanya

            If I may…

            ‘Putinista’ is a word your respectable correspondent made up for the occasion. You will not find it in a dictionary. I would translate it straight-forwardly as Путинистка, or, perhaps more adventurously, as Путиница. I would say that in context of your exchange this word is not at all offensive.

          • Tatyana

            Oh, thank you, Pooh. I’m not ‘Putinista’, because my approval is for Putin’s work, but not for him personally.
            I’m rather “the-right-man-in-the-right-place-ista”.
            I’ve got some experience in hiring people to work for me and I know sometimes that is extremely hard. Also, we are obligated to interview people whom job center sends. Many of those openly ask to ‘decline job application’, so that they continue getting welfare payments and stay ‘jobless’.
            Also, when I find one employee who is skilled and really interested to work, I stick to him.
            That’s the story of my mother. She started as junior lab staff at the milk processing plant and by the retirement age she was key employee. The new administration valued her so much, that created new position, smth like ‘consultant’, especially to let her stay and work there.
            So, no, I’m not Putinista. I’m “good-leader-stay-ista”.

        • SA

          Look where your democracy is leading you. Boris the piffle Johnson is your PM. Hang your head in shame and stop knocking down Putin.
          You personally were relentless in your attack on Corbyn. Rejoice.

          • Tatyana

            I believe that democracy is to have the leader that the people want. Is not it? Remember that Putin is supported by most Russians.
            C’mon, we have a cool president, why would we want to change him? It works, don’t fix it.

          • SA

            Tatyana
            My comment was aimed at RoS not you. I fully agree with you re Putin. He is doing a fantastic job, why risk getting someone else?

          • Republicofscotland

            “Boris the piffle Johnson is your PM.”

            Not at all, he’s England’s PM a foreign nation to me. Corbyn though better than Johnson, is also a politican of a foreign country, both are irrelevant to me.

          • SA

            Is that country of yours a real country or a virtual country?
            (RoS you don’t have to answer, just a wind up).
            But as an aside I hear the viceroy to the province of Scotland from Westminster has also been struck with the virus,

          • Pooh

            Tatyana
            March 28, 2020 at 05:58

            “I believe that democracy is to have the leader that the people want. Is not it?”

            It certainly is.

            “Remember that Putin is supported by most Russians.”

            Indubitably so.

            “C’mon, we have a cool president, why would we want to change him?”

            You have indeed, and he is the envy of the West, just look at them pathetic clowns we have here. Wait and see what RoS will be saying when Scotland gets free Russian help. Who knows, he might reject it – better dead than red.

            Walk safe and free, Tanya. I can’t.

        • Pooh

          Please read “in the context of your conversation”. My apologies, Tatyana.

          Good wishes.

      • Giyane

        Tatyana

        I was also being multiply horrible. In the play as you know Oberon gets some magic flower juice squeezed into his partner Titania’s eyes. The magic makes her fall passionately in live with …. Bottom a simpleton actor with a donkey’s head on. Donkeys being famously well endowed. Sorry if I’ve got the story wrong.
        Could I get some flower magic to make you fall in love with our PM?
        Some jokes are better left unexplained ..

        • Tatyana

          Giyane

          The trouble with your PM is so great, that the magic of some weed is not enough, I’m afraid. One needs stronger drugs to fall in love with him.
          Of course, if he pulled the donkey’s head on, it could help a little bit. At least that would cover his lying eyes.

          Highly likely.

          • Rhys Jaggar

            Tatyana, there is something I have noticed over 30 years of being an adult male and it is that women of different nations see males in very different ways.

            Women in the UK swoon over Boris Johnson, we will never know the true figures, but his serial adultery has been with at least a dozen women. Yet people like you from Russia are left unmoved.

            The other way around: for whatever reason, women from foreign lands always seemed to like me more than English women. I have no understanding of the reasons why, but it included women from France, Poland, the US, Spain and Germany.

            Must be something to do with different social values in different countries I guess.

        • Tatyana

          You can also anchor your hopes on the help of Covid, btw.

          Diarrhea is said to be one of the symptoms. The virus may squeeze a lot of crap out of him.
          Isn’t it great that there will be less sh*t in your PM? It would incredibly increase his chances of getting love.

          • Rhys Jaggar

            He already has a pregnant partner presumably giving him love.

            And she apparently loved him when the shit was still fully inside of him…

          • Pooh

            Tatyana
            March 28, 2020 at 11:47

            Yes, Tatyana, our Blondie is слабок на передок if you know what I mean. In English it would be something like ‘afflicted with a frontal weakness’ or perhaps ‘frontally liberated’.

  • U Watt

    People have been gaslit into thinking Assange is some arch criminal whose death in prison would be well deserved. Ask them to explain why and they will flounder.

    • James

      No they haven’t. I don’t know anybody who likes what is going on with Assange – I only know of such people through newspapers.

      I note, with interest, that Jeremy Corbyn didn’t emphasise the importance of this issue during the general election campaign. I think this was a big mistake and I wonder why.

      • U Watt

        If I recall correctly Corbyn was the only politician who made anything of the way Assange was being treated. Yet you are singling him out for criticism. I wonder why, hmmm.

        • James

          Because I was disappointed. Corbyn was the only one who made anything of it – and I was expecting more – but it turned out to be half hearted – it was not a central issue.

          In general, I was disappointed with Corbyn’s campaign – his campaign against May was genuinely much better than his campaign against Johnson.

          I think that Corbyn’s basic problem is that he wasn’t allowed to be Corbyn.

          We don’t expect anything from the Tories – I was expecting something from Corbyn – but it didn’t materialise.

          • SA

            I fully agree James. Corbyn’s wings were clipped. He is a modest man full of integrity and principles, rare in politics but had no support in parliament but much support from party members. It is sad that he was so badly treated by his own party and I am now seriously considering weather that party is now worth supporting any more.

      • Rhys Jaggar

        The fact is that whatever Corbyn had highlighted or emphasised, the media was going to trash him. The orders came from the USA, just remember what Pompeo said about it all.

        • nevermind

          The orders came from people like Shai Masot long before pompus opened his mouth. Rhys.

  • Ilya G Poimandres

    Ignoring all of the wars etc, the Assange case, again, neatly fits into the UK interpretation of terrorism, as found in the Terrorism Act (2000). http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/1

    1.b) is satisfied because the Assange case intimidates the public
    1.a) because 2.a), “serious violence against a person”, is true in the case of Assange, as you write.

    Now, according to section 15 3.a) of the same act http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/15 , in providing money to the UK Government, one is guilty of terrorism.

    It is time for us to write to our terrorist government and stop paying taxes.

    • Mark Russell

      Indeed. I haven’t paid a penny in UK income tax since 2003 on that very basis. Not that it makes much difference now.

      • Ilya G Poimandres

        I am writing my letter to the Home Secretary now, have a young kid, so have been on the fence about it for a while.

        I think if this were done publicly and en masse, well they’d set their dogs on us, just like on Assange, but their pockets is all they care about, so maybe it would be worth something!

      • glenn_uk

        I’m sure the NHS and social services, schools and fire departments are all grateful that you pay no tax at all.

        Hey, just let everyone else pick up the slack.

        Do you really think government will cut back on war and oppression because of a lack of tax revenue? They’ll keep meals-on-wheels going, but abandon war – is that what you think? Or will services to the poorest be the first to go. You tell me.

    • SA

      This is all distorted thinking. One must distinguish between the country and the government. Only a fraction of taxes you pay go to these activities so in withdrawing your taxes you should also understand you are withdrawing your citizens’ rights. Should billionaires not wish to pay their taxes because they don’t want money to go to welfare? But maybe you, and Mark Russell think the same way as Amazon and Starbuck’s.
      As for Mark. Should the inland revenue investigate?

      • Ilya G Poimandres

        OK so we agree that government acts wrongly with its dreams of Empire. How would you suggest we change them?

        Vote them out within representative democracy? But it is just evolutionary autocracy, the citizen has no direct right to change the law.

        Revolution and semi-direct democracy and neutrality afterwards? Sure, but there would be many dead, like with not funding the state.

        The society is in a ditch and it has to get out. We can present different ways, but all will get us dirty to some extent. The welfare state saves lives, but the state overall also kills lives. There is no win for everyone in the short run, but the long run would be much better without Empire.

        • SA

          I agree with you in general terms. But we are stuck with a system. As Craig wrote a while ago, the state has monopoly on violence. We can either change the system through revolution or we can try to change it democratically. But half hearted withdrawing your taxes, unless a large number of people do it in a co-ordinated way, will only get you in jail.
          If you accuse someone with something, in this case the state with terrorism, you would have to take them to court and use the verdict to get your redress. I am not sure you will get far.
          Ideally not one person or a group of ideologues should govern, even by ‘democratic’ elections. We get into the totally ridiculous position we are in in UK where Boris Johnston is virtually an absolute ruler and there is no opposition whatsoever. The only balance against this is if you have coalitions, which is a regular feature of European democracies and in which everyone one hopefully has a voice. But that is why I do not think our democracy in UK is a true democracy.

    • Tom Welsh

      “It is time for us to write to our terrorist government and stop paying taxes”.

      Unfortunately, just because it is a terrorist government neither of those acts will accomplish anything you would like.

      Writing to the government would have the same effect as writing to ISIS to complain.

      Stopping payment of taxes would have the same effect as refusing to pay taxes to ISIS. In the end you will be killed. (Unless you give in and pay at some point).

    • SA

      The government and its non-elected advisors say do as I say not as I do, we are above the law even in matters that concern infectious disease.

      • SA

        But to do it in such a stealthy manner shows what a true coward DC is, and the worst type of bully too.

  • Brianfujisan

    I see SA has Mentioned the Lancet a couple of times

    SA
    March 27, 2020 at 10:17

    So here is Richard Horton of the Lancet Laying into the UK Gov over Delayed 11 weeks on Last night’s QT..Well said Richard.. I hear There was a Vile sight of Boris de Pfeffel Johnson Clapping outside No 10 last Night For NHS Staff.. Makes one want to Scream.

    Richard H – on QT –

    https://twitter.com/JerryHicksUnite/status/1243288854519562241?

      • Giyane

        SA

        Its very fortunate that algorithms could supply us with a massive majority government at exactly the same time that the algorithm bankers could provide us with zillions of extra pounds.

        Just think what a disaster it would have been if humans had voted for Corbyn, and the banks told him they’d go bust if funds were printed to cover the cover 19 virus.

        We really do live in the best of all possible worlds.
        Don’t we children?

  • Brianfujisan

    nevermind

    Indeed, Great victory for the Water Protector’s.. I remember watching Live as water cannons were being used against the First Nations Protectors ..in sub- Zero temperatures.. Great Victory. 🙂

    • James

      SA – what do you do in `real life’? Are you an epidemiologist? I ask, because you write in a way that seems informed.

      I do understand that lack-of-lockdown could have terrible consequences. I think that the Swedish figures will be interesting (and perhaps horrific) to follow. They don’t have a lock-down.

      I wonder, though, whether it is simply delaying the inevitable – or whether it can buy enough time to do something useful (or whether the virus will get killed off naturally when the weather turns warmer).

      Of course, hard measures to prevent the spread of the virus are essential. I do wonder, though, whether these measures will turn out to be temporary, or if it is being used as an excuse for a power-grab by national governments.

      Also – if these measures last a long time, they do have very bad consequences for children (who are the future and who don’t seem to be affected seriously). Forcing them to isolate (and not mix with other children) is very bad for their social development.

  • David

    People/bots whatever have tried to say here that SARS-CoV-2’s not a relevant emergency, because effects “kill people – particularly the elderly” are similar to seasonal flu, which ‘apparently’ does the same. That’s a very superficial argument.

    In Italy, this season’s COVID-19 death rate is currently “51” fifty-one hospital doctors passed in 3 weeks. That’s not ‘flu.

    stay at home

    • Magic Robot

      David
      Nice to know the ‘virus’ politely observes political boundaries, and does not go berserk in Germany, for instance.
      It’s like it thinks for itself.
      Can you explain how a ‘virus’ thinks for itself?

      • SA

        It is the Germans who have been doing the thinking, unlike some here. I will leave you to do some research and ask Google why the Germans have been better with Covid-19? When you have done your homework, would you please kindly come back and tell us?
        Ta.

  • Mary

    Investigation after prisoner found dead in cell at Belmarsh
    Liridon Saliuka, 29, died after a dispute over whether he should be classified as disabled

    Owen Bowcott Legal affairs correspondent Wed 8 Jan 2020 1

    Liridon Saliuka. Photograph

    A remand prisoner has been found dead in his cell at HMP Belmarsh after a dispute over whether he should have been classified as disabled.

    Liridon Saliuka, who was born in Kosovo and held a British passport, was found reportedly unresponsive in house block 4 of the high-security prison in the early evening of 2 January.

    The Prison Service confirmed he had died. The Prisons and Probation Ombudsman is investigating.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/08/investigation-prisoner-liridon-saliuka-found-dead-belmarsh

    • Mary

      There are many links relating to his death but there are no reports on an inquest or investigation.

      His sister tweeted:

      Dita Saliuka
      @AferditaSa
      Mar 26
      Replying to @HackneyAbbott
      Thank you for being the only MP to raise this! My brother died at @hmpbelmarsh on 2nd Jan and we still don’t have answers! Please don’t let another family suffer like mine. All lives matter.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/aferditasa

  • Mary

    About turn! by the Donald.

    He issues orders to General Motors to make ventilators but cannot stop himself insulting their CEO Mary Barra. What made him so confrontational? He’s like a spoilt child.

    Coronavirus: Trump orders ‘time-wasting’ General Motors to make ventilators
    28 March 2020
    https://www.bbc.com/news/52071611

    It probably makes him feel secure having the line of stooges behind him.

  • Monster

    Today wouild be a good day to report the death of Yulia Skripal. Pandemics can be useful.

    • Rhys Jaggar

      Whether she is dead or not?

      MI5/6 have long-established procedures for ‘killing’ people off to allow them a new life with a new identity somewhere else on earth.

  • grafter

    Craig, has this virus infected your computer ? A refocusing on events is required. Comments here are decending into the headless chicken variety.

    • Magic Robot

      Certain commenters on here are determined to keep the ‘virus’ hysteria going at any and all cost.
      When this blows over, show no relent, eh?

  • The Imprisonment of Julian Assange

    Disregarding for a moment the secondary American dimension, it seems to me that what is at stake with Wikileaks is the United Kingdom’s own need for secrecy.

    The massive police presence around the Ecuador embassy made that clear.
    No one in power can/could risk information leaking to Julian Assange.
    His principles are as they are and he would publish openly.

    What if he received leaks from officers who worked in ‘Operation Midland’ or ‘Operation Ore’ or other massively public-funded, failed police investigations into paedophilia in high places?
    What if he received information about terror incidents in the UK? What if he received documentation concerning mass shootings – Huntingdon, Cumberland, Dunblane – presently inaccessible under 100 year long D-Laws?

    What if he received the UK’s War Logs in Afghanistan?
    Mr. James Savile’s relationship to Broadmoor Hospital?
    Secretive Off-shore banking in Jersey?

    It is but pure conjecture on my part.
    The fact remains that it is the UK that has held Assange prisoner for the last 10 years in the United Kingdom.
    Not the Americans.

    • Macky

      I’ve made the point before that the UK Deep State wants Assange to be made an example of, just as much as the US Deep State does; focusing just on the US, misses the UK proactive measures devised & enforced on this side of the Pond against Assange.

  • DunGroanin

    Iran released Nazanine with ankle tag for safety sake.

    Baritser and Westminster Magistrate doesn’t consider the same for unconvicted remand prisoner.

    Iran should throw her back in Jail until Julian is given same consideration (but being actually anciently civilised peoples – they would not consider such a barbarity)

    • Kempe

      ” being actually anciently civilised peoples – they would not consider such a barbarity ”

      If that were true they’d never have locked her up in the first place.

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