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None of those things happen with the exploration of, development of, exploitation of, distribution of and use of fossil fuels? Or indeed the manufacture of anything else but renewable energy infrastructure? It only happens with solar panel production? There is no shipping involved in fossil fuels? Gimme a break Michael. Try out some coherence in your argument.
ET yes coherence is good.
In Germany they open cast dig for brown coal, possibly the most dirty option.
This is Germany, the largest economy in Europe, the third largest economy in the world, a modern E, rich, European nation.
Coherence has taken a back seat in Germany.If we in the U.K. were to mine our own Iron/Coal/Oil/Natural Gas,
we would be in a more coherent position.Michael, answer the question put to you.
I would suggest that a good democratic route for the Labour Government to take, would be to put before the electorate a board of options.
Lay out just what they feel is the existential catastrophe that awaits the U.K. if we ignore Global Warming.
Set out a range of choices, with their whole of life costs and whole of life Carbon releases.
Then ask the voting public to make a democratic choice.Michael, surely you mean any government regardless of flavour not only a labour government?
It has been suggested that currently the United Kingdom is contributing about 0.95% of Global Carbon dioxide emissions.
ET
Yes, you are completely correct, almost everything will cause Carbon dioxide to enter/reenter the air.
Yes, open cast Coal extraction is hugely Carbon emission intensive.
Possibly deep mined Coal might be slightly less?
I have little idea how much Oil drilling contributes to the World’s Carbon emissions, a lot, I guess.
In the olden days they used to flare off the Methane. It was a waste product – not now, the Natural Gas is extremely useful. All processes contribute to Carbon re-entering the atmosphere.
When a squirrel dies if that squirrel is not eaten straight away, it rots and Carbon goes into the air.
Quantifying these emissions and writing them down and discussing those emissions with the public, would be rather helpful.
If anything is to be achieved, it must be with the consent of the public, it should not be the Elite putting the public straight and railroading the public, that will end in revolution.ET, at the moment, we in the United Kingdom have a Labour Administration, they may be in power for ten years.
I doubt the Conservative Party, will be getting in, any time soon.
Possibly the Reform party might get in one day, they are keen on opening up our Carbon resources.
The moment is now or never. The Labour Party have an overwhelming number of members of Parliament, if the public are to e won over to the side of total commitment to Net Zero, it is now.
Or never.Michael, net-zero is the commited UK government policy to make moneys for USA not for the UK. You are contributing to that madness. Look at your high street. It’s American owned. What are you doing about this?
ET
I repeat,
the moment is now or never.
if the Elite ( whoever they support) wish a democratic alliance to drive through Net Zero,
they need to grab the moment by its bollocks, this moment is unlikely to come again.
The Conservative Party are giving up on Net Zero.
Even Tony Blair has given up on Net Zero.
The Reform Party wants to drill baby drill.
So, it is now or never.Michael:
– “it should not be the Elite putting the public straight and railroading the public” … “if the Elite (whoever they support) wish a democratic alliance to drive through Net Zero…”
Grief Michael, you think “the Elite” are a unified bloc! They’re capitalists, so by definition they’re in competition with each other! Until you realise that, you’re their fodder. You’ll vote for the interests of one elite faction or maybe another but with no real understanding either way; you’ll have been used.
You think the Koch brothers aren’t part of the elite? Or the Getty family?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_brothers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getty_family
Tony Blair??!! The man who devastated Iraq for its oil, and since then a grotesquely overpaid globetrotter making oil deals? Blair isn’t part of “the Elite”? A commenter on this site (who posted under the handles Komodo and Ba’al Zevul) meticulously documented Blair’s activities for nearly five years and recorded it all for posterity:
Michael:
– “Quantifying these emissions and writing them down and discussing those emissions with the public, would be rather helpful”
Well do your damn homework then and read the Stern Review; it’s only been available for two decades. Meanwhile, please stop blasting out one elite faction’s propaganda.
Michael, I’m sorry to have to tell you this but the depth of your folly is staggering. Here on this thread you have intelligent, informed, scientifically literate and independent people who have deeply considered humanity’s predicament and will actually discuss it with you; have discussed it with you for months.
But you prefer arrogantly to assume that we have all let ourselves be brainwashed, and regale us with the copious propaganda that spews forth from 55 Tufton Street, the Heartland Institute etc. etc, a bunch of the elite who you cannot hope to influence and who wouldn’t discuss with you for five minutes. All they want is your vote and your voice. You obligingly give away both, and then bang on about democracy as if it can’t be subverted by propaganda while clearly demonstrating that it can! You even promote it for them gratis, while they rake in the cash.
Some problems with Solar
Paul Brown and Iona Italia discuss the complexities and challenges surrounding renewable energy, including the environmental impacts, hidden costs, and the influence of government policies versus technological innovation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etgGr7cRW_c
Energy is fundamental to modern life.
Subsidies increase the cost of electricity, especially to the poorA rich person pays the same for their grid delivered electricity as a poor person.
The poor person spends a very much greater proportion of their income on electricity than does a rich person.
The huge subsidies that renewable energy projects get, means that they have to increase the cost to the public.
So if a poor person was spending 10% of his income on electricity, then the cost of electricity doubles to cover subsidies and increased grid capacity and so on, then that poor person will now be spending one fifth of his income on electricity.
Yet, that poor person was never consulted on if he would like to go Net Zero/Green.
Yet the well educated home owner with a good income, probably thinks solar farms are a good idea, as long as they are not in the field next to that rich, well educated persons house.As usual, the poor are ignored, their acceptance is not sought.
Yet the poor will have the shitty end of the stick.
It is all well and good going Green, if you can still eat and keep warm.New Zealand abandons Jacinda Ardern’s Net Zero Dream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmYFbZpEdfc
New Natural Gas Fields would now be exploited in and off shore of New Zealand.I do agree on some of your points Michael.
We would be better off as a country if we mined our own coal and iron ore. We would save with the balance of payments by not having to import those commodities. But it is not quite as simple as that, because we live in a capitalist world – and the owners of those mines would want to maximise production and export the excess. This might be good for the financial economy, but bad for the environment.
Our mined products would be more expensive than imports, therefore prices of steel would rise adding inflationary pressure.
At the moment the net zero zealots have control, which maybe good for their virtue signalling egos; but is ignoring the fact that even if the UK does reach net zero, the countries we import from have a long way to go.
Maybe we should add a multiplier to all imports based on the carbon emissions per capita of the countries we are importing from?
@ Fat Jon,
I do think we should mine our own Coal and limestone and Ironstone, if we are to continue to make virgin steel in the United kingdom.
We would also use our own fresh water.
Expecting other people in distant lands to use their own fresh water, mine their Limestone, mine their Coal and mine their Ironstone, for us, just so that we can tell the rest of the World, the U.K. is as green as grass, we have cut our Carbon outpourings to the minimum.
This is rank hypocricyI think that some aficionados of Global Warming/Net Zero
are getting quite angry and abusive because they have come to understand, they can’t take ordinary people with them on their wild ride into beggardom.
You can go all electric/Net Zero, if you are well fed and educated and self important but you will not take this wild ride if you are cold, poor or hungry.
Perhaps, one day, there will be people ready to take the plunge but that time is not yet come.
Asking people to be colder/poorer and more miserable, is not a winning strategy.
Abusing people because they do not share your vision, is also not a winning strategy.
The world is changing but the populations are moving away from climate catastrophe ideology.
You Global Warming people need to Big Up your Game, people are no longer buying into it, just look out your window, what do you see, more people having mindless stuff delivered, each and every day, they want more stuff not less stuff.In the United Kingdom, the Labour party are now thought of as dog shit, they are done.
They have so upset everybody, that almost nobody will ever vote for them again.
Ed Milliband has been trying to ram Net Zero down the throats of the populace, they are not buying it.
If Nigel gets in, he will scrap net Zero.
The popular movement in the U.K. is away from Net Zero.I thought it was Starmer everyone hated.
Hi Michael, glad to see you are still standing your own.
On the issue of using the UK’s own mineral resources for steel production, I view it as a non starter. Our known iron ore deposits are not of a sufficient quantity or quality to be viable. Coal and limestone we still have an abundance of, but we would need to import iron ores.
I’m also of the opinion that public awareness of the myth of a climate crisis is in abatement; the angry reactions to voices against NetZero are much the same as before. But there is still a way to go.
The ‘guns or butter’ analogy from economics lectures past, now present themselves as a ‘NetZero or Winter Fuel Allowance’ type argument.
As I am still an active Labour Party member, I can assure you that there is a huge majority in the rank and file behind Max Miliband. But that is countered by the career orientated in the party who regularly turn up at our CLP to be guest speakers. They are distancing themselves from NetZero very gently.
I detect a major problem that parallel the open revolts in the last tory government; perhaps with a huge increase in the numbers of party members just leaving.
The faction of the party that is furious with the Supreme Court decision that trans women are not women are, in the main, also NetZero diehards.Those who have left the local party tend to migrate towards the liberals, not the greens…_
Digger, I apologise for being so rude about the Labour Party.
I did not mean ordinary people who voted for change.
I have in the past voted Labour.
Yes, Clark is correct, Sir Keir is the single most despised politician in our country, at the moment. It does seem to me that the Labour Party, meaning the government, have squandered the good feelings that they had from the people, when they first took office.
George Galloway does not think Keir will last to New Years Day.
It almost seems as if their intention is to annoy most sections of society?
