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@ Clark
Yes people with mental health problems are also suffering due to the lockdown and MSM fear-mongering.
Dave, do you know anyone who has had covid-19? I know someone about thirty, just on critical day 10 or 11. We haven’t spoken yet, so I can’t tell you how bad it was, but I hear that it was bad. Another friend of a friend, also about 30, survived but “was left as weak as a kitten”; still recovering.
Just accepting the word of Q-Anon or wherever you get this stuff doesn’t count as dedication to reality.
Clark
Propaganda can sometimes take the form of an elaborate CT when performed by a state. The whole Skripal affair was just such an occurrence. The state constructed a huge CT with which the media complied and it became part of the folklore and recorded as a real episode in history. Another similar conflation of propaganda and CT was the Russian interference with first the US election, and then every other election that you would like to name.
When states and governments construct CTs they do so with the help of massive propaganda. But when individuals and organisations do it becomes a CT. Reminiscent of the saying that terrorism is the poor man’s war and war is the rich man’s terror on the poor.@ Clark
“Just accepting the word of Q-Anon or wherever you get this stuff doesn’t count as dedication to reality”.
Then you’ll be delighted to hear that everything I’ve written has appeared in the MSM, albeit hidden, compared to the Pan-Panic propaganda.
@ Clark
And today its reported there has been a big spike in non-corona deaths, due to fears of going to hospital and getting the virus and/or not wanting to cause a fuss during a crisis aka deaths due to the lockdown and fear-mongering.
SA, I almost agree. Your examples are borderline, they don’t require a conspiracy that expands without limit, but they are well beyond the typical propaganda by spin and omission. The global warming denial that has gradually petered out of the corporate media over the last decade or so did require unlimited conspiracy.
I think that reliable, verifiable, correctable mass news media would provide a major remedy to the proliferation of conspiracy theory on social media. People aren’t sheeple; they know they are being misled, but structural propaganda is complicated to pull apart and correct, so conspiracy theory arises in reaction.
“Big”, Dave? You need to quantify so a comparison can be made.
I take it you know no one who’s had covid-19.
@ Clark
Over 600,000 die every year from various causes, many thousands from infections caught in hospital. Lets not forget them and the many victims of the lockdown! Please to hear your friends recovered.
Dave, it is my opinion that you seriously underrate the seriousness of covid-19 because you have no idea about maths or science, you are dismissive of them, as has been shown regarding climate science, the collapses on 9/11 and now a global pandemic. It’s the Dunning-Kruger effect. You have massive confidence in your own pronouncements, because you don’t even know enough to know that you’re ignorant.
Ignorance can be corrected, but arrogance is a choice.
And Dave, all the arguments you make are ultimately political. If the ATLAS system spotted an oncoming asteroid, I think you’d likely say it was a hoax to discredit Trump. Your argument up-thread is highly parochial, seeing some hidden hand against merely Trump and Johnson in a global pandemic that’s affecting every country on Earth and originated in China.
Actually, politics is not the cause of everything, nor the only means by which things can be explained.
Do you know any science or maths at all?
You apparently have no understanding of exponential functions or you’d understand why the technical community is treating covid-19 as such a threat.
1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024…
10 doublings get us to over a thousand…
2,048, 4,096, 8,192, 16,384, 32,768, 65,536, 131,072, 262,144, 524,288, 1,048,576…
20 doublings get us to over a million…
2,097,152, 4,194,304, 8,388,608, 16,777,216, 33,554,432, 67,108,864…
26 doublings get us to the population of the UK…
134,217,728, 268,435,456, 536,870,912, 1,073,741,824, 2,147,483,648, 4,294,967,296, 8,589,934,592.
33 doublings exceed the population of the world.
Clark @ April 15, 2020 at 20:29
“Do you know any science of maths at all?”
I also suspected as much of Dave, It is also interesting how he defends Trump and even thinks that Trump is the victim of antisemitism allegations. Maybe Dave is a bot?“Hidden in the mainstream media”.
This must be some new usage of the word ‘hidden’ that I haven’t encountered before…
I’m modest actually, but yes I’m not intimidated by the “best expert advice money can buy”, because who’s paying Fauci and Imperial College London for their crackpot lockdown policy? I know you know, the compulsory vaccine lobby, who offer it, at fancy prices, as the magic key to unlock the lockdown, which is wrecking the economy and costing lives and livelihoods.
Not all the world is in lockdown or the same degree of lockdown and why they are all doing it is a good question, but there are always a range of interests supporting the same policy for different reasons.
Some want it to suppress political protests (France, India, China) and some for additional funding from world organisations, and some like New Zealand (at least their Prime Minster) do so as a loyal servants of the 1%. I mean they went into lockdown after reporting “1” death!
The lockdown doesn’t make sense from a medical point of view, and unless you’re saying all the politicians are just following expert medical advice, we have to ask who’s paying the experts, because wrecking the economy makes things worse, and before lockdown the mortality rate was less than the preceding 5 years.
And Trump is being attacked by the Fake Media for wanting to lift the lockdown and for all the problems due to the lockdown. Its impeachment 2 or 3 if you include “Russia-Gate”.
@ Clark
“Hidden in the mainstream media”.
“This must be some new usage of the word ‘hidden’ that I haven’t encountered before…”
You need to get out more. The headline on the front page is belied by a small item on P94.
Dave, it is a sad and damning testament to the state of the corporate media that so many people end up with opinions about science similar to your own, for that is where they originate; a million stupid, contradictory articles that begin “scientists say…”, and then tell us nothing about the evidence, data or theory. One scientist is said to “reveal” something, and then another “challenges” it, a bit like Jedi Knights. Science is presented as didactic statements from authority figures in white coats, many of whom are in fact quacks and have no scientific standing whatsoever, because most journalists wouldn’t know how to check.
But some people can do science for themselves, or at least assess whether the arguments are valid. Just because you don’t understand a thing doesn’t mean that no one else does. You have consistently presented me with arguments that you think are scientific, but I can see that they are crafted to deceive. The “CO2 is a tiny proportion of the atmosphere” is one such argument; it has superficial plausibility, nothing more. I tried to show you that it is misleading by showing you that far less colourant makes methylated spirits purple; I tried to put that tool of judgement in your own hands, to empower you, but to no avail. Likewise the collapses of the Twin Towers; I presented my methods and working entirely in public on the 9/11 thread, but again, you were unable or unwilling to make use of my offering, preferring evidence-free assertions that the collapses were impossible without explosives.
There is more to assessing a piece of science than determining who paid for it; such hidden motive arguments are mere conspiracy theory, that’s what the term means. And there is far more to the understanding of SARS-CoV-2 and CoVID-19 than the work of Fauci and ICL.
You can learn how to assess scientific claims by reading Bad Science by Ben Goldacre.
Here Dave, look at the first three graphs on the following page to see how the Trump administration is doing for the people they supposedly serve, in comparison with other governments:
Black is white. Bless you! Stay in doors and “turn those lights out”!
Those of us who know a little science saw that coming for the US. I predicted that the US would overtake country after country to rise to the top of the list of countries most affected.
Dave, I estimate that the world is only about one fiftieth into this pandemic so far. The US, moving so much faster, is about one twelfth into its disaster, and the deaths lag the cases by about a fortnight.
We’re not only not out of the woods; we have barely entered them. Don’t treat dynamic issues as static; the averages you quote will look very different in a couple of months.
The boat is adrift without power in remote ocean, several days sailing from the nearest fresh water. As the officers, engineers, mechanics and navigator do incomprehensible, technical things on the bridge and in the engine room, a talkative passenger holds forth telling the others: There is no problem with the boat, we are not really mid ocean, it is all an illusion, these technical people are fooling you because they have been paid to discredit the owner of the boat. Ignore their advice, they are deliberately making things worse. It’s always the same with these boffins and egg-heads, they know nothing really and they only say what they have been paid to… I know far more than them.
Dave, please don’t think I’m complacent. This is a terrible time for covid-19 to have happened. The people desperately need to rise up and take the power unto themselves, because the world over, political systems are dysfunctional with corruption.
But it would be wrong to congregate right now. In October I was in London, doing my bit towards civil disobedience. Through to February I was advocating and publicising. I am impatient, as are so many I work with, but nature is nature and has to be respected; it is force majeure.
We must simply prepare and be ready.
Dave, I had a mathematical discussion with a friend yesterday, and I think that there may now be a case for relaxation of some government restrictions, or public transgression of some restrictions, in some places, and/or among some communities.
However, I have major qualifications of this. Any such decision must be social and collective, because individuals’ actions will affect others’ exposure. It must be responsible; people’s deaths should be voluntary, and free from pain and distress to the greatest extent possible. And decision must not be rushed, because understanding of immune system response to SARS-CoV-2 is as yet minimal.
– – – – – – – – –What evidence do you have that the “compulsory vaccine lobby” is influencing public information? As I understand it, there is no effective vaccine to lobby for, and since SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus and no effective vaccines have ever been developed against most other coronaviruses (eg. there are no vaccines for the common cold), there may be no such vaccine in the foreseeable future.
Why do you regard as “Stalinist” my suggestion of encouraging voluntary reorganisation of households and communities into groups of similar vulnerability and risk of exposure? At present, most people’s choices of who they associate with are dictated by their economic circumstances; those rich enough can afford sufficient accommodation to associate as they choose, but the majority have to be either at their only home, or at work, and have little choice about either. To me, voluntary reorganisation seems more liberal than economic coercion.
In 2002 I was banned from Audiogalaxy/General Chat forum for claiming 9/11 was an inside job. For years previously, any topic was fair game, I’d never seen anyone banned, or even censured, except for antisemitism. But the atmosphere changed after 9/11. I was accused of “insulting the victims” and “supporting terrorists.” I was “cherry picking evidence” because I was a “conspiracy theorist.”
I was mystified by the vehemence I encountered. Even then there was strong evidence that something fishy was going on – insider trading; at least half the accused hijackers were still alive; many credible eye witnesses to explosions; the complete failure of air defenses; and much more. Yet I (and others) were vilified for pointing out these obvious discrepancies. My posts would be delayed in moderation for hours then released far back in the timeline where they wouldn’t be seen. Eventually my account was rescinded (I’d had a 3-figure membership number when by then there were over a million subscribers).
There’s been lots of water under the bridge since then and now I understand that anger. 9/11 remains a keystone event to understanding the modern world and I’ve seen the effect its revelations have on people. To this day, many don’t know that 3 towers fell. When they learn, everybody is at first incredulous that they could be unaware of such a significant fact, then hungry to discover more. For some it is a gateway to realisation that the world is a very different place to the one portrayed on their TVs. For others, it is too much. They can’t assimilate the implications – total MSM control, rulers who kill 1000s of innocents for strategic gain, their country is not the good guys, etc. They go a certain way down the road then recoil at the horror of it. They find a cosy BBC debunking programme to cling to, then erect mental barriers to ensure they are never led down that road again. Their primary defense mechanism is to howl down anybody who reminds them of that dark place they dare not revisit. They discredit the messenger to justify ignoring the message.
19 years later, the official 9/11 account has been demolished by a meticulous 4 year investigation by the Department of Civil Engineering at the University of Alaska Fairbanks which concludes that “fires in WTC 7 could not have caused the observed collapse.” So now it’s not “conspiracy theorists” claiming it was an inside job, its Science, complete with open source data and a challenge to officialdom to prove the report wrong.
What are the lessons?
(1) The MSM absolutely cannot be trusted – that it can and does maintain an illusion, day in day out year in year out.
(2) It does not need 1000s of people to be in on the conspiracy, just an elite setting the scene while those below realise (to a greater or lesser extent) what side their bread’s buttered on, not to rock the boat, and a sly few noticing: hey, promoting the elite’s agenda actually leads to career advancement.
(3) There really are powerful people who engineer history-changing events to facilitate increases in their global power.Still, we’ve learned our lessons. They couldn’t fool us again …. could they?
Very good post Node, and its good to put the record straight, but its clear Truth soon takes second place to a loyalty test, who’s side are you on? You forgive, downplay or deny the crimes of ‘your own side’ because you put your own security first and this applies to many issues big and small.
You say you could feel the hostility when raising pertinent questions on that old blog, which previously had only banned “anti-Semitic” posts. And there you have it, the hostility to 9/11 truth was because of Israel’s involvement in the terrorist attack, which any enquiry would soon reveal, making Truth an “anti-Semitic” heresy.
Which is why Clark hangs on to his “spontaneous combustion and sympathy collapse theory”, because in his case the “truth wont set him free”!
