- This topic has 401 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Clark.
April 19, 2020 at 16:59 #52114Clark
Here’s a sequence of photographs from an apartment across the water showing the collapses of both the Twin Towers. Note, as I keep saying, that the major dust cloud starts welling up from lower levels as the collapse reaches ground. Comparatively, hardly any dust is left higher up in the space just vacated by the collapsing tower. There is much grey material during collapse, but it must be larger debris because it falls, leaving the air relatively clear. This effect is most clearly seen for the first collapse; wtc-44.jpg and wtc-45.jpg show it very clearly; just a wisp of smoke left above building height where the top two thirds of WTC2 was, and lower, among the buildings still standing, an enormous billowing, spreading cloud of dust:
The Twin Towers were NOT “blasted into dust in mid air”. Their remnants crushed themselves into dust as they hit the ground, just as would be expected.April 19, 2020 at 17:01 #52115Clark
The chief of the fire department denied all knowledge of the ‘phone call Larry Silverstein spoke of.April 19, 2020 at 17:10 #52116Clark
Very interesting site, that 11-settembre.blogspot. It has a very credible explanation for “pools of molten steel”:
It also has several photos of the steel debris salvaged from the site. Columns bent completely back upon themselves, clear evidence of structural failure.April 19, 2020 at 17:26 #52117Clark
– “White balance applies across the whole frame, not to selective pixels”
Well, precisely. If there’s a blue background, blue intensity for the entire frame will be reduced by automatic white balance, so other colours will be displayed with less blue than they would have had, changing them towards red/green, ie. yellow.
But really this tells us nothing. Whatever came out of that environment would inevitably contain many substances.April 19, 2020 at 17:42 #52119Clark
I think what I find most intriguing is why members of the so-called Truth Movement advocate in such a biased manner for the unevidenced narrative of Twin Tower pre-rigged demolition. I can understand anti-Semites wanting to pin it on Silverstein, but most Truthers complain that claims of anti-Semitism in the Truth Movement is merely a slur deployed to discredit them.April 19, 2020 at 20:17 #52130Dave
“The chief of the fire department denied all knowledge of the ‘phone call Larry Silverstein spoke of”.
Do you think the fire chief is anti-Semitic?April 19, 2020 at 21:17 #52133Clark
I don’t know him. What do you think?April 20, 2020 at 01:23 #52134Node
Ben Goldacre’s God has spoken, again. Dr John Ioannidis’s latest study searched for cov sars 2 antibodies in a sample of 3300 people in Santa Clara County, Califoirnia. Based on the results he estimates that between 2.5 and 4.2% of the county’s population have been infected. “We realised that the number of infected people is somewhere between 50 and 85 times more than had been documented. Immediately that means that the infection fatality rate, the probability of dying if you are infected, diminishes by 50 to 85-fold because the denominator in the calculation becomes 50 to 85-fold bigger. The data suggests that covid19 has an infection fatality rate that is in the same ballpark as seasonal influenza.”
Video: Dr John Ioannidis — Covid fatality rate “in the ballpark of seasonal influenza” (OffGuardian)April 20, 2020 at 01:26 #52135Node
MOD, I don’t know why this video has embedded rather than just shown the link. I believe this slows down the forum. Feel free to reduce it to just the link if you want.
[ Mod: Fixed.
A URL of a video webpage will be rendered as an embedded video rather than the bare URL. It’s a “feature” of the WordPress forum plugin, unfortunately.
To display a link, you need to surround the linked text with an anchor tag:
Video: Ethel Merman -- <a href="https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/04/singalongavanessa/"> SingalongaVanessa </a> (Craig Murray blog)
You might find it helpful to use the “LINK” button above the comment window: just highlight the text to be linked, click the LINK button and paste in the URL.
I hope that helps. ]April 20, 2020 at 08:07 #52155Dave
“The data suggests that covid19 has an infection fatality rate that is in the same ballpark as seasonal influenza.”
If so, the government should lift the lockdown, but how can they (politically) after inflicting so much damage in the name of fighting the virus. Hence the need to inflate numbers to show how serious it is, but which at the same time extends the lockdown, damaging health and economy even more.April 20, 2020 at 08:27 #52157Dave
As I recall the sequence was, Boris announces plans for a partial lockdown (like Sweden), and then as if a switch was thrown announces a heavy lockdown, and uses figures from the “experts of choice” (ICL) to justify doing so.
“Experts of choice” because they provide the advice the government asks them to provide to justify government policy, whilst hiding behind the “experts”.
I think this explains ICL’s record of poor “expert” advice, such as advice to kill millions of cattle as solution to cattle catching a cold during foot and mouth outbreak. Don’t know, but suspect killing the cattle was part of some EU deal over quotas. But the quota deal was hidden behind the “best expert advice money can buy”!
Its claimed (and I don’t doubt it due to Boris’s liberal instincts) he didn’t want the heavy curfew and wants to lift it asap, so perhaps his illness (or poisoning as CNN announced he was covid free when he left hospital!) was a tactical way to keep out of the way until its safe to emerge to lift the lockdown without, he hopes, taking the blame. This will happen when Trump beats off Impeachment 3 and lifts the lockdown in America.April 20, 2020 at 10:06 #52164Clark
No, it means the restrictions must be observed!
The infection fatality rate may be similar to 1918 influenza, but the entire global population is naive to this virus.
– “…estimates that between 2.5 and 4.2% of the county’s population have been infected”
100 / 2.5 = 40
100 / 4.2 = ~24
So in Santa Clara County, California, this epidemic can get between 24 and 40 times worse than it is already, and not all of the deaths from those infections will have occurred yet. Get me the graph for excess mortality in Santa Clara County. My friend Ben lives in California. Stop campaigning for the death of my friend.
I am trembling with anger.
You are campaigning for death.April 20, 2020 at 10:12 #52165Clark
It is the infection per population that is lower for seasonal influenza, because the population is far from naive; influenza circulates, so the majority already have immunity, and thus the population as a whole has resistance.
SARS-CoV-2 is brand new; without restriction is will cut a swathe through the population. It will be years before it is a circulating disease like seasonal influenza. In fact, it may never become such; we know so little about it, recovery may not even confer immunity. We do not yet know. The restrictions buy us time.April 20, 2020 at 10:22 #52166Clark
I strongly suspect that the video has been edited, cut from a longer video, and the questions are not part of the original video, they have been dubbed on; they were clearly recorded in a different environment.
FIND THE FULL, ORIGINAL VIDEO!.
Quote mining. A common technique of those with an agenda to promote. And the Off-Guardian article links to the anonymous Swiss Propaganda Research, who zealously hide their identities. Someone is trying to maximise death. Information warfare. Literally.April 20, 2020 at 10:27 #52167Clark
And Node has quote-mined further, omitted literally vital information. I am preparing a transcript.April 20, 2020 at 10:31 #52168Node
You are campaigning for death.
I am sharing the message of someone who is globally respected for accurately interpreting data.
The data suggests that the percentage of people who die after being infected with cov sars 2 is about the same as the percentage of people who die after being infected with seasonal flu. He is saying it is no more dangerous to catch cov sars 2 than to catch flu.April 20, 2020 at 10:40 #52170Clark
That video was posted by “Journeyman Pictures”, who are incredibly prolific, like Philip Cross. They have posted hundreds of clips in the last ten months, none of it original content. There has to be a team behind this outfit. Check for yourself; see if you can scroll to the bottom of the page:
Who wants us dead, eh?April 20, 2020 at 10:52 #52171Clark
02:35 – “It suggests that even though this is a very serious problem, we should not fear. It suggests that we have solid ground to have optimism, about the possibility of eventually reopening our society, and gaining back our lives.”
And at the end, the caption:
– FULL INTERVIEW TO COME
– LATER TODAY OR EARLY TOMORROW
So as I said, this is not the full talk from Dr. Ioannidis.
Node, you found this so it is your responsibility to do the right thing by finding the complete version, which will include the parts that Journeyman Pictures don’t want us to hear.April 20, 2020 at 10:58 #52172Clark
– “He is saying it is no more dangerous to catch cov sars 2 than to catch flu.”
No he is not. You have misinterpreted. covid-19 frequently causes long term lung damage, heart damage, damage to vital organs and neurological damage. Flu does none of those. And we don’t know if recovery confers immunity, or to what extent; we have only four months experience with this virus.
NODE, ACT RESPONSIBLY. YOU ARE PLAYING WITH OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES AND LONG TERM HEALTHApril 20, 2020 at 11:02 #52173Clark
I cannot find the original talk, but there seem to be at least three other sources for Node’s three minute quote-mining exercise.
Someone appears to be pushing this.April 20, 2020 at 11:07 #52175Dave
“No, it means the restrictions must be observed”!
Do you observe the restrictions?April 20, 2020 at 11:21 #52177Clark
And this is a flawed study anyway. The sample is not random, they recruited participants by placing targeted advertisements aimed at Santa Clara County on Facebook.
California has already had 1,146 deaths. If you really want that to rise to between 27,000 and 46,000 deaths in the next month or two, keep on campaigning as you have been.April 20, 2020 at 11:24 #52178Clark
Yes, Dave, I do observe the restrictions.April 20, 2020 at 11:31 #52179Clark
Covid-19 is also a horrible way to die. Breathing becomes increasingly difficult over a week, often until heart failure occurs through lack of oxygen.
This is another reason to prevent overload of critical care facilities. Even if death cannot be prevented, the suffering and distress can be alleviated.
How do YOU want your last days, hours and moments to be? A protracted, doomed struggle for breath, like drowning for a week?April 20, 2020 at 11:43 #52180Node
“And this is a flawed study anyway.”
There are other studies which come to a similar conclusion but I have posted this one here because Ioannidis’s reputation is unimpeachable. His livelihood and worldwide respect depends on him accurately interpreting data. Ask Ben Goldacre.April 20, 2020 at 12:09 #52181Clark
Ioannidis didn’t do the study, and there is widespread criticism of it. It may be withdrawn.
But the infection fatality rate being much lower than the case fatality rate is no secret; it is widely know, as you’d know too if you get away from propaganda sites and looked at proper reliable sources. For weeks now I have been estimating the infected proportion of the population from the death figures, because only a small proportion of infections are confirmed and therefore counted. IFR and CFR are different things.
If you had chosen to discuss with Squonk rather than fight and advocate you’d have known all this too.April 20, 2020 at 12:15 #52182Clark
Node, look at the effect you have Node. Every time you make some misinterpreted claim “it’s no worse than flu”, Dave chips in with “remove the restrictions for the sake of the economy”. If Dave takes it that way so do a multitude of others.
I’d rather restrictions be voluntary, decided by each individual based on sound information about what personal behaviour is risky and what isn’t. The more you undermine good information, the more restrictions have to be enforced, for the good of the majority.April 20, 2020 at 12:21 #52183Node
“If you had chosen to discuss with Squonk rather than fight and advocate you’d have known all this too.”
Squonk banned me for saying what Ioannidis says.April 20, 2020 at 12:35 #52185Clark
Want a tiny violin accompaniment for your continued distortions? He said be reasonable or leave. There’s no technical block, but your more misleading stuff was probably deleted. And you’ve quote-mined a quote-mine, like Truthers typically do. Look to your effects Node.April 20, 2020 at 13:53 #52197Node
“He said be reasonable or leave.”
I was about to quote what he actually said, but no, I’m not resurrecting this dispute over here. Check it for yourself.
Look, I don’t blame you or Squonk. You are scared and fighting for what you believe. I am scared for a different reason and fighting for what I believe. As I have explained to you before, I believe the world is run by an elite who appoint politicians, start wars, cause economic depressions, control continents, to further their aims. Their aim is always to increase their control of the world. It is done through control of the money supply. Call THEM the Banksters, for want of a better term. They own all the global corporations, the industrial military complex, the energy firms, utilities, global food chains, internet service providers, you name it.
Now and again they pull off a big one – the recent bank bailout was a moderate one, it only gained them a few trillion. But it is not about money, it is about owning, ie controlling, the world’s resources. Money is just a tool to do that. I believe this pandemic ‘crisis’ is a big one, possibly THE big one. When it is over vast amounts of private property will have been transferred to their control, the biggest snatch in history.
They are smashing the global economy. When it is over, every business will have gone bust – its assets defaulting to the banks or bought up cheap by the corporations – or at best they will be massively in debt to the banks. Independent traders and services gone, no competition, no choice but THEM. Every private individual will owe more and be worth less. Meanwhile our governments are borrowing trillions ‘on our behalf’.
[I don’t expect anything but mockery for my belief that a secret elite runs the world, but you cannot dispute what I say about the effects of the pandemic – the biggest transfer of assets from the many to the few in the history of the world]
And on top of all that, the Banksters have acquired unprecedented powers to suppress dissent, to maintain control as more and more people begin to realise what has happened – police state surveillance and control measures, all of them demanded by the very people who will be suppressed by them.
You’re scared? I’m fucking terrified. I have every bit as much right as you to voice my concerns, so back off with your “Oh, Node, shut up with your dangerous opinions.” From my POV, you are the dangerous one, doing the Banksters work for them. But like I said, I understand where you’re coming from. Now you try and understand my position, and stop screaming for censorship.April 20, 2020 at 13:57 #52199SA
Dear oh dear.
Ben Goldacre’s God has spoken. First Goldacre said godlike figure not God. Secondly the pronouncements were made on a serological study of 3000 individuals selected through a facebook ad campaign on a serological test on which we are told little and know not if it is validated, in a pre-peer reviewed internet publication. That is the smoking gun? So all it has postulated is that we still do not know what the actual death rate from Covid-19 is but it is less than that of seasonal influenza. That in itself is not surprising and maybe a bit encouraging, but it does not explain why there are so many people dying all over the world. Yes of course they are all old and frail and would have died anyway in 2 weeks, 3 months or two years, so why worry? But hang on a minute Ioannidis says we are OK so we must be OK. But what about the 80 or so healthy caseworkers who were healthy and expected to live for a few more years, productively saving lives, they have died with Covid-19 not because of it? Well of course because of the panic produced, a stampede is always a possibility that may kill innocent passerbys.
To be fair to Ioannidis all he is saying is that there is hope at the end of the tunnel, mankind is not going to be wiped our by this disease and at worse we might cull the oldest and weakest and perhaps that is not worse than saving our economies. If this sounds familiar, it is because it is a reiteration of what Boris-take-it-on-the-chin-herd-immunity-Johnson also said at the outset.April 20, 2020 at 14:02 #52204SA
Anyway. I am not keeping on this 911 thread because frankly it is going round in circles. The introduction of Covid19 discussions interwoven with others means that I cannot keep up with the comments being made. I will not make further comments here but if you want to share your thoughts on covid-19 you will find me here if you are interested that is.April 20, 2020 at 14:19 #52212Clark
Node, 13:53 – “You are scared and fighting for what you believe”
WRONG again Node; pure psychological projection. You are fighting. You have beliefs. I am arguing for acceptance of evidence and minimisation of suffering. The death rate is going through the roof, unless you maintain that all the graphs you’ve been shown of overall mortality are under the control of the secret conspiracy you peddle – not that you’re a conspiracy theorist, of course.
I have proportional fear, but AS you know, or should, I have been suicidally depressed for over a decade. I have my way out, I will not die in agony, and I won’t particularly care, I’ll be glad to have escaped the wilful liars intent on wrecking our beautiful little world.April 20, 2020 at 14:22 #52213Dave
“Yes, Dave, I do observe the restrictions.”
Well be careful, as “self-isolation” can drive you mad!April 20, 2020 at 14:26 #52214Clark
– “I have every bit as much right as you to voice my concerns”
Does free speech give you the right to convince the ignorant to escape an some monster, real or imagined, by running in panic across a busy motorway?
The “banksters” are as threatened by covid-19 as anyone else; more so if they are old.April 20, 2020 at 14:33 #52215Clark
Your beliefs are as nothing against the weight of evidence. Have humility.
I share your concerns about businesses, but it is a matter of priority. I’d have more respect if you’d undertake to participate in direct non-violent action, in due course when congregating ceases to be a mortal threat to others. But I have NEVER seen you advocate direct action, all you do is harp on about your supposed superior knowledge, in defiance of all evidence and reason.
What ACTION do you recommend?April 20, 2020 at 15:08 #52216Node
Your beliefs are as nothing against the weight of evidence.
Whose evidence? Mine or yours?April 20, 2020 at 16:43 #52220Clark
No, Node. What ACTION do you recommend?
– “Whose evidence? Mine or yours?”
The preponderance of evidence.
But the very fact that you ask that question implies that you acknowledge only opinion. Anyone can cherry-pick and quote mine; that’s why the overall mortality figures were cited to refute your initial claims. The fact that you have never retracted shows that you have no respect for the rationalist method. There is simply no point in attempting rational conversation with you; QED.
So what action do you recommend?April 20, 2020 at 16:47 #52221Clark
Asking that question shows that you do not respect evidence and rationality, so your appeal the the UAF report is mere hypocrisy; had it contradicted your opinion you would have dismissed it, presumably as work dictated by “the elite”, a claim you can make of absolutely anything. Your claims to respect science constitute intellectual dishonesty. You resort to mere conspiracy theory, because all the evidence you reject you can attribute to the conspiracy.April 20, 2020 at 16:48 #52222Clark
So let’s move on.
What action do you recommend?