SARS cov2 and Covid 19


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  • #62612
    SA

    Nothing up top, like a website that remains nameless, likes bandying Around terms like fraudulent about all and sundry. That website recently published an article that was so full of fraud that claimed that all the rest of the world is committing the fraud and that website is the knight in Shining armour (pun intended) Come to save the world.
    Could NUT be connected in any way to that website? I wonder.

    #62613
    SA

    “Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others.“
    This is taken from the paper that NUT quotes. I guess they too are fraudulent.

    #62621
    Clark

    SA, something odd seems to be happening; Nothinguptop posted links to three good articles, but promotes interpretations almost exactly opposite to what they show.

    The Danish study accepts that masks reduce cross-infection rates but doesn’t find that a mask protects its wearer, therefore implying that masks work by source control. The Nature article shows that the Wuhan lockdown was highly effective, but confirms that infection doesn’t always cause symptoms, and found that 0.31% had been infected for a second time.

    The Fullfact.org article’s byline is not very well worded, but the article itself correctly interprets the Danish findings. I therefore find myself suspicious of Professor Carl Heneghan and Tom Jefferson from the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, and the Spectator, for their misinterpretation.

    #62624
    Clark

    Professor Carl Heneghan is the director of the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, and Tom Jefferson is a senior associate tutor. Both have very good affiliations, as does the CEBM itself, so I’m extremely surprised that they seem to have overlooked the possible benefits of source control.

    Nothinguptop may have a point, in a perverse sort of way; the ‘symbolism’ of masks may itself be effective in reducing cross-infection. I find that seeing people wearing masks and having to remember to use one myself does act as an effective and constant reminder to be careful.

    #62625
    Clark

    I have heard of a new study from France of people suffering long covid. Months after testing negative, their sense of taste and smell had not recovered. More invasive testing found live virus in the olfactory nerves of the majority.

    Long covid is more common than covid death.

    #62628
    ET

    An article from a retired surgeon relating to the Danish study and Prof Heneghan’s response in an article in the Spectator.
    Slugger O’TooleTo mask or not to mask?

    #62639
    Clark

    The article linked by ET explains it very well.

    “So why is Prof Heneghan conflating the two questions — whether masks protect the wearer, and whether masks prevent or reduce the spread of infection in the community — with the unvoiced implication of spread to others? That is a very political question, and the Spectator is a political magazine. You might wonder if the Spectator tends to the right-wing libertarian view, where government “edicts” are frowned upon as a breach of liberty. Making mask-wearing compulsory is such a breach, for example. You might even wonder if Prof Heneghan is looking for articles that support this view.

    – It’s very clear, if you pay close attention to what the researchers described, and you understand how statistics “work”, you will come to entirely different conclusions to those described in Prof Heneghan’s article. But if you only read Prof Heneghan’s article you could come to the conclusions he does. This is another example of Fast and Slow Thinking in Politics (here) in action. Scientific papers by their very nature are turgid and indigestible; it takes effort to read them. Articles in the Spectator are for a general readership, where the readers do not stop to think or question things that seem so blatantly obvious. And so mischief and misunderstanding spreads.”

    Nothingontop, I have come to the same conclusion as Factcheck.org. Do you claim that I too am being paid to lie? Do you claim that I am part of the conspiracy?

    #62640
    Clark

    Another article about “super-spreaders” ie. clustering:

    The Vulnerable Can Wait. Vaccinate the Super-Spreaders First:

    wired.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-super-spreaders

    #62651
    ET

    Interesting article Clark. I am struck by the ingenuity of the maths/physics behind understanding networks but also by just how much we don’t know. Difficult decisions ahead for vaccine targeting.

    #62655
    Clark

    “I am struck […] also by just how much we don’t know.”

    That’s why I’m advocating suppression of this virus. We can’t possibly know long term effects until a long term has elapsed. The pro-infection lobby may say “oh it only kills the elderly and frail; well, mostly”, but what if it’s rotting the nervous systems etc. of the fit in their prime? We could end up a country of permanently wheezing idiots, and what would that do to the sacred economy? There’s plenty of evidence of long term effects in many more cases than the deaths it causes, and you’d expect effects in the majority of tissue types because they all have the ACE2 receptors that SARS-CoV-2 exploits.

    #62782
    N_

    The (Tory) British government is introducing the population to the idea of being “given” “helpy freedom cards” if they consent to opening up their bodies to Big Pharma’s “scientific breakthrough” vaccine.

    They are saying they’re not planning such a policy at the moment – oh perish the thought! – and at the same time they are telling their media to observe that “the government hasn’t ruled it out”. Those who think they’re good at understanding propaganda, please note the structure of this.

    Meanwhile they are getting the (Labour) Welsh government to “promise” to introduce such “I’ve been vaccinated” cards in Wales. Unfortunately this is unlikely to end the same way as the poll tax, which was introduced in Scotland a year before it was imposed in the rest of Great Britain. Wales may be the testing ground for the policy.

    Notice too the successful campaign to associate schools with “food for the poor” – just so long as the children eat it in the school buildings and don’t share any with their parents. If that is not preparation for widespread food shortages, I don’t know what is.

    In that campaign, the rulers used a famous football player, so I’m told. Now they are talking about Boris Johnson acting as some kind of “Jesus Christ” figure and getting personally vaccinated live on television. (Shades of Mao Zedong swimming in the Yangtse river!)

    It can’t be long before people get split off from their children rather as they got split off from care home-resident parents, and from undergraduate-age sons and daughters, and rather as “don’t hug your grandchildren” became the official national doctrine. The rulers are basically dividing us, snmashing us, and preparing to kill us on what in this country is an unprecedented scale. It was always clear that British fascism would smell like Thomas Malthus.

    So…which out of the following two do we think will happen first?

    1) Deaths by vaccine in Britain first exceed 1 million.

    2) Vaccine refusers are banned from a wide range of activities, such as

    * public transport (and probably altogether from travelling between different areas of the country)
    * educational institutions (including schools – nothing like killing the children after they killed so many elderly people in care homes)
    * supermarkets and wherever else the “obedient vaccinated” will be allowed to buy food on ration, at least so long as any food is for sale
    * different kinds of access to bank accounts (the authorities won’t want us leper types touching money, right?)
    * leaving their homes

    #62785
    N_

    So there are 29 days to go until Britain leaves the trading arrangements with its biggest trading partner, the EU, from which it imports a large proportion of its food, without having agreed any new arrangements…

    …and…what’s this? “MACA”, Military Aid to the Civil Authorities, is being invoked as the army prepares to conduct certain operations in football stadiums involving a high throughput of civilian punters…

    But wait! Boris Johnson will get his arm pricked with a “vaccine” needle on live TV. “Heil!” say the “experts” and “scientists”. Heil the coming national victory over the insidious and hitherto ubiquitous enemy, the enemy that thrives in every act of grandparental hugging, in every entry by an unclean person into a supermarket, in every act of disobedience to the holy commands of the state, so beautifully and urgently sanctified by experts, scientists, and the preparers of infographics for the Daily Express and the BBC!

    VACCINE…ARMY…FOOTBALL STADIUMS…OBEDIENCE

    #62790
    Dawg

    Indeed, N_. Could be both options 1 & 2. But before the vaccine death toll reaches a million, the vaccine refuseniks will be forced to wear an ‘unclean’ sign around their necks, and they’ll be confined in workhouses with a yellow corona symbol stitched onto their drab grey clothing. And the streets will be patrolled by T100 killer robots, until everyone has been injected with microchips that migrate to their frontal lobes, so that the whole populace can be controlled by 5G signals. And then the Kraken will arise, and the seas will boil over … etc. etc.

    Nostradamus called … he wants his job back. He says you’ve no credibility as a dystopian futurologist and you’re ruining the reputation of soothsayers.

    #62794
    N_

    From the Daily Mail a few hours ago:

    Soldiers are already monitoring cyberspace for Covid-19 content to find out how British citizens are being targeted online, leaked documents showed. It comes amid a rise in the number of anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine protests taking place around Britain as three potential vaccines were found to have around 90 per cent effectiveness.

    Anyone who has the resources should prepare to leave Britain fast.

    When they try to impose compulsory vaccination, one of their tools will have to be the withdrawal of access to food, transport, employment, being outside your house, using a bank account, etc. – i.e. the kind of negative reinforcement known as negative punishment (the operant conditioning “quadrant” of withdrawing a positive stimulus). They wouldn’t use ONLY this, but they would have to use this.

    If they just tried to fine us all (positive punishment – the quadrant of applying a negative stimulus), there are many of us who would refuse to pay and, if they could catch us, we would go to prison. I imagine prisoners will be among the first to be forcibly vaccinated, but that would just cause physical fights at the point of capture, and indeed in the prisons themselves. On the plus side, a resistance movement that filled the prisons (or hastily established internment camps run by the army, perhaps leased from Pontins, as in the Liverpool area) would add to the b*stards’ “logistical” problems.

    #62795
    N_

    That’s not even funny, Dawg. You might as well say “So you think the bosses are changing things to their benefit? Yeah and the moon is made of green cheese. I saw it written on my foil hat. Bwahahaha!”

    Both Delphi (Larry Nettle) and Google (Scott Huffman) are on record as “envisaging” mass microchip implantation.

    Anyway, are you predicting that the British authorities will allow everything to be fine for those of us who resist the new kind of antiviral vaccine that has never been used before scientist-approved breakthrough injection?

    If that’s so, why have they already sicced the army on to those who post anti-vaccine stuff online?

    #62809
    Dawg

    Unsurprisingly you missed the point, N_. You’re obscuring a serious issue (i.e. “the bosses are changing things to their benefit”) with doom-laden evidence-free soothsaying – “It can’t be long before people get split off from their children”, “The rulers are … preparing to kill us on what in this country is an unprecedented scale”, “Deaths by vaccine in Britain first exceed 1 million”. And it seems you’re even prepared to bundle in the ridiculous conspiracy theory that the vaccine is a covert ploy to inject microchips into the general population! (Which is about as plausible as “the moon is made of green cheese”, you’re right. Would it be a stretch to surmise that you think the moon landings were a hoax too?)

    When you spout that kind of CT nonsense, you undermine the credible accusations about the opportunistic business class and social elites. There is indeed corporate profiteering on an industrial scale and it must be tackled via social pressure (re Tesco, Morrisons and now Sainsbury’s handing back millions in business rates relief) and political campaigning. But if you bundle in a bunch of far-fetched conspiracy prophecies (about microchipping vaccines and segregation of children by the state, etc.), then that whole economic narrative can be dismissed as the ravings of the lunatic fringe. You’d help the cause best by shutting up and letting more rational voices make the case instead.

    #62816
    SA

    Dawg
    Thanks for exposing the raving meanderings of N_. He also keeps repeating extremely odd invented suggestions, like Johnson being vaccinated in public. You wouldn’t start by vaccinating someone who has had the virus already, this would be scientifically illogical.

    I am a strong advocate of vaccines and their importance in combatting the virus, but the government is making a total mess out of this also. HMG in the shape of BJ and Mattcock have seriously politicised the vaccine for party political purposes with very little consideration for what this rush to be ‘the first in the world’ to start mass vaccination. Moreover there is a clear Brexit subtext here, the vaccine was approved by MHRA which, until Brexit would not approve a drug without co-ordination with the European Medicines agency. The not so subtle message here is that “look at us here, our breaking away from the shackles of the EU and setting ourselves to control our borders and our health system, we managed to be the first in the world to start mass vaccination, something we would not have been able to do under the EU”.
    The roll out is also ill thought and does not seem to be co-ordinated or led by the medical profession. The priorities of who gets the vaccine first appear to be rather ill thought through, the vaccine being given to the most vulnerable, a group that has not featured in the trials, and who may be more likely to suffer from side effects.
    I am also still not convinced about the robustness of the safety data, given that the vaccine was first given to human volunteers about two to three months ago. Also when there are many competing vaccines with still incomplete data, it would be in the best interest to wait a bit longer to have comparative balance as to which vaccine might be best in terms of efficacy, cost effectiveness, ease of transport and so on. The fact that the Pfizer-Moderna vaccine needs to be kept and transported at minus 70 degrees is a major potential problem. The logistics are nightmarish, and having failed previously with the simple tasks of procuring PPE and rolling out a test and trace system, there is little hope that this government with the ideologically driven profit for chums of BJ, Mattcock et al, will be able to deliver. The blame will of course be directed on everyone else. This is a political stunt, I am afraid to say.

    #62818
    ET

    Indeed SA.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/03/gavin-williamson-britains-a-much-better-country-than-all-of-them

    Let’s see how well they do in rolling it out. I am sure it is possible to do it well but will they manage it? I do wish them all the best, genuinely, as it would be a great step forwards in managing the whole pandemic if it works well.

    #62819
    SA

    E.T
    Yes I hope I did not appear too cynical but this is so important to get right. I too hope that it succeeds and get us out of this nightmare situation we are in.

    #62828
    N_

    In behavioural conditioning terms, it makes sense to declare the saviour vaccine into existence during a period of lockdown, not during a period of relative “freedom”. See if anyone can guess why.

    The revolting Tory minister Gavin Williamson, once sacked from the cabinet for a breach of the Official Secrets Act that might have landed most of the rest of us with a 10 year prison sentence, declared that the reason that Britain is doling out the vaccine before other countries is because Britain is BETTER than other countries.

    !!

    Yeah, sure. Let’s take this more slowly.

    The British elite are about to pump the population full of a totally new kind of “antiviral” vaccine that has never been used before. And they’re doing it before other governments. And the REASON is because they LOVE us!
    The British elite love the British plebs far more than the elite of any other country in the world loves its plebs, even Sweden. Right?

    So THAT must be why they school their offspring behind 12-foot thick centuries-old walls. I knew there was something special about them! It’s because they love the “townies” so much!

    #62842
    ET

    “The British elite are about to pump the population full of a totally new kind of “antiviral” vaccine that has never been used before. And they’re doing it before other governments”

    You are correct, N_, it is a new kind of mRNA vaccine that has not been approved before. The mRNA that codes for the spike protein is presented as antigen in the hope that the body will make antibodies to it and thereby confer immunity. They say it is 90% effective preventing symptomatic disease a week after the second dose. There are still questions. Does it prevent actual infection or just symptomatic infecton? Does it prevent transmission to others albeit if it does prevent symptomatic infection? Is age, ethnicity a factor in the response?

    Big Pharma doesn’t have a good track record on transparancy of data. Pfizer and its German partner, BioNTech SE, should make ALL their data publically available immediately and make it easily available to anyone and continue to make all their follow up data just as available.

    For sure, the current UK gov is blowing their own trumpet about how great they are but what’s new in that? IF it works to short circuit the pandemic with a good safety record it could be the breakthrough needed. Also, if this new type of vaccine works it could lead the way for vaccines for other infectious diseases. (more profit for Big Pharma, I know)

    #62844
    Clark

    “Big Pharma doesn’t have a good track record on transparancy of data.”

    Big Pharma has a bloody appalling record of withholding data, and the “regulatory authorities” assist them more often than not.

    “Pfizer and its German partner, BioNTech SE, should make ALL their data publically available immediately…”

    “Commercial secrecy” has to be vastly curtailed. Governments should make withholding of data a criminal offence; board members and CEOs should go to prison, because withholding data has repeatedly resulted in mass death.

    The predominant ideology claims that capitalism is what’s best for the people; that it’s the best possible system given human nature, but the routine withholding data reveals this to be untrue. If everything a corporation does is for the common good (apart from the profit), what justification is there for internal secrecy? If, as is claimed, it is merely to protect company innovation from competitors, all should be revealed as soon as a patent is granted, but this is never the case. Typically, unfavourable data is only released when a court orders it, when patients sue for undisclosed adverse effects.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by modbot.
    #62845
    ET

    I wholeheartedly agree with you Clark, I was just somewhat understating the issue and keeping the post on topic. Ben Goldacre’s “Bad Pharma” is a must read. The MHRA is complicit in the lack of transparancy. (As are the equivalent EU and USA regulatory bodies)

    I believe however, as there is such a large public trust component in mass vaccination, that Pfizer and MHRA should consider releasing all relevant data publically. I think it would actually hugely improve public perception of them and would be a marketng win for them.

    #62846
    Clark

    N_, please pardon me for what is possibly my social ineptitude, but are your comments intended as parody of conspiracy theory? I realise you might not want to appear out of costume, so to speak, but if you could just level with me for five minutes so I know where I stand, you could return to role in your subsequent comment. It may be all my own fault; various people have said I might be a bit autistic, though on the other hand HTML doesn’t have an irony tag.

    If you’re hoping that by parody you may expose the madness of conspiracy theory and thereby encourage people to learn political theory, I think you should consider the risk that most might just take your comments literally; nearly half the US electorate just voted for Trump who had little but conspiracy theory on offer.

    #62847
    Clark

    “I think it would actually hugely improve public perception of them and would be a marketng win for them.”

    I agree. And it would be the most effective solution to the anti-vax movement.

    I suppose it will eventually happen, and in retrospect they’ll wonder why they didn’t do it sooner. The car industry is illustrative; over the decades they fought compulsory seat belts, anti-lock brakes and pollution reduction, all of which are now used as marketing points. Volvo seem to have learned the lesson; they’re phasing out internal combustion engines five years ahead of EU government restrictions.

    #62874
    SA

    There is a bit of work to be done to convince about the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine and its safety:
    The trial was started end of July, therefore the safety data is only that pertaining to immediate adverse effects and no intermediate or long term effects are available. The efficacy data publishes is based on a reduced number of subjects infected after vaccination, 8 , as opposed to 164 who received placebo. The age groups are reported to be 41% aged 55-85, a rather wide spread with no breakdown. The more relevant age breakdown would have been say 55-65 or 70 and 70-85 years because we are not given any more details about the age.
    Because there will be many subgroup analyses, this will reduce the power of the statistical significance. Moreover the duration of the protection is unknown because as pointed out the first vaccinations occurred only 20 weeks ago.
    So I can see this is very encouraging preliminary data but the rush to license this for emergency use, is now also being used to mean that there will be a mass rollout of the vaccine. Other factors to consider are the difficulties of maintaining a cold chain of minus 70 degrees and also to consider that other vaccine candidates may be more efficient.

    #62879
    Dredd

    The haste of the MHRA’s Pfizer vaccine approval is a cause for concern, but bear in mind that the verification clock was started well before the trial was complete: the SOPs and statistical methods for prospective Covid vaccines were submitted for inspection at the beginning. The MHRA governs Good Clinical Practice training for clinical trials, and (at least with regard to the Oxford/AstraZeneca studies) they were monitoring the protocols from the outset.

    It’s now standard practice to make the research datasets available for public inspection, but make allowances for the fact that it takes a lot longer to anonymise the data (and to verify the anonymity independently) than it does to publish the statistical results.

    The study will no doubt be scrutinised carefully by critics both internal and external. Indeed, a lengthy summary of technical grounds for scepticism of the Pfizer vaccine approval was submitted as a petition to the FDA and the EMA on 1 December. It was co-authored by Dr Mike Yeadon (the scientific genius who assured us a few months ago that the pandemic was virtually over and there would be no second wave because the huge increase in detected “cases” was an illusion due to the prevalence of false positives in mass PCR testing; presumably, the subsequent increase in covid-related deaths is an illusion too.)

    The 43-page petition for regulatory action is hosted at Health Impact News as a PDF document. The full text is available in HTML format at a dedicated website: StopPfizer.com.

    At first glance the petition seems quite impressive, as it’s packed with scientific jargon and cited text. However, a skim read suggests that it features a number of typical anti-vaxxer tropes and covid-cynic memes: e.g. that the vaccine will render people infertile, that the PCR test is unreliable and nearly all positive results are false, and that facemasks don’t protect against contamination.

    I think it’s wise to get familiar with that petition because it’s inevitably going to be widely circulated over the next few days by covid cynics. It’s likely that much of it will be debunked by fact checkers in due course, but there might be some valid wheat amongst the chaff.

    #62883
    Clark

    The Oxford-AstraZeneca data has similar problems, only worse:

    wired.com/story/the-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-data-isnt-up-to-snuff/

    Has anyone done any “challenge trials”? That’s when volunteers are first given the vaccine, and then later they’re deliberately exposed to SARS-CoV-2. It would get more results quicker, without having to wait for subjects to encounter the virus in the wild, but deliberately infecting healthy people has obvious ethical complications.

    It’s at the challenge stage that there might be cases of ADE. I’ve heard it said that SARS-CoV-2 looks almost booby-trapped for vaccine designers.

    #62892
    N_

    This cartoon was drawn in response to a recent headline in the oligarch-owned, Tory former chancellor-edited “London Evening Standard” which declared “Vaccines are Safe Path to Freedom”. The idea for it came from Piers Corbyn. Nice one. Please spread it around.

    <img src=”https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a7df9a_1a00974953844a21a703890d222aaccf~mv2.jpg&#8221; alt=”Cartoon” />.

    There is also a petition calling on MPs to take the vaccine first so that how they fare with it can be assessed after a year. This too is an initiative by Piers C. I do NOT encourage people to sign this, at least not traceably. (And what is traceable is almost certainly a damned sight more than you think.) Be aware that the rulers have sicced the Army’s 77th Brigade onto the opponents of the mass vaccination campaign, with a mandate to do what their job is, i.e. to spy on, disrupt, spook, and prevent the circulation of ideas that the rulers consider to be a threat. The correct term for this is <i>war</i> – war in particular against the fighter part of the enemy population (yes, they see the “peasants”, “heathens”, etc. as the enemy – and rightly) – another weapon in the war being the vaccine itself. If you really plan to resist vaccination, seriously you should NOT be signing petitions against it.

    Bear the following in mind. Whereas percentages of intending resisters of vaccination have been cited that are quite large (“25% of Londoners”, and so on), the vast majority of these heroic questionnaire-answerers will FLAKE. They’ll be told that children are dying; they will be given the short-term choice between continuing to resist or being the butt of unprecedented vilification (complete with photos and videos); they will be denied access to their beloved Faecebook and Sh*tter; they will be denied the ration cards that will be required to buy food; they will be tearing their hair out as they realise that schools have turned into prisons where visits by the unvaccinated aren’t allowed, not even “virtual” ones using Whatsapp; or they will be “given” some “free” sh*t or other by Amazon or Tesco or Vodafone – and they will bend over and spread ’em for Soldier Simon With The Syringe, or for Take-No-Nonsense Nursy. “NHS”, “NHS” they will cry. I hope I’m totally wrong and the resistance is as powerful as it was to the poll tax, but this is vanishingly unlikely. The power of the rulers’ messaging and its themes of the danger of megadeath and the urgent need to smash the antisocial elements who are like vermin wilfully undermining the public health of the society of “Britons” is far greater than they even dreamt of achieving with their pathetic propaganda for the head tax under Margaret Thatcher. Paradoxically, resistance will be encouraged among certain minority demographics FOR A WHILE. Pretty much every demographic, from trade unionists to jihadists, has had most of its main “influencers” under MI5 control for a long time. This is one of the functions of “social media”. Social media wouldn’t even exist if that wasn’t the case. Dials can be turned to boost or depress this or that behaviour or belief, in any given demographic. The true rate of resistance is likely to be on the order of 1% or 0.1%. And the lines along which most of it will travel are ALSO under state control. There will be – indeed there already is – something similar to the “911 truther” scene…but with MUCH higher stakes. What we need is a safe communication network – we need an “underground railway” (the enemy would call it a system of “ratlines”)…essentially a guerrilla army which is up to the task, and that looks like a very tall order…

    #62893
    N_

    Military planes to fly vaccines in to Britain to avoid ports hit by Brexit.

    Tens of millions of doses of the Covid-19 vaccine manufactured in Belgium will be flown to Britain by military aircraft to avoid delays at ports caused by Brexit, under contingency plans being developed by the government.

    What, can’t the British government charter (or commandeer if necessary) any civilian aircraft these days? Heavy, are they, these vaccines? Or are they light but extremely voluminous? Nope. The “difficulty of the logistics” has been a main theme in home-market propaganda for weeks now. The aircraft will have to be military planes flying to military airports rather than civilian ones flying to civil airports such as Heathrow and Gatwick because

    a) the legal structure that underpins flights between Britain and the EU (insurance and so on) will have keeled over and died, and

    b) Britain’s major airports will probably have been sealed and mothballed by administrators as the companies through which their mysterious owners control them have gone into insolvency.

    #62894
    N_

    As various systems collapse or teeter on the edge of collapse (the civilian transport system, money circulation, civilian food distribution, insurance, the legal system, the “education” system, the distribution of fuel to petrol stations – “non-urgent hospital operations” already having gone for a Burton), the ARMED FORCES become – never mind their own corruption and inefficiencies – the most reliable state structure around. I’m guessing that Tesco etc. have already been working closely with the army in “planning for the winter” for some time.

    People shouldn’t complain when it happens that they didn’t know. Half of Britain’s food is imported, mostly from the EU. The media are reporting as a premise that the ports are likely to shut down. Food doesn’t leave fields in the Netherlands or wherever and drop onto the shelves in the shops – it comes in through ports. That’s what it means to be “imported”. When the ports shut, it doesn’t come in at all.

    #62898
    N_

    When the rulers talk of saving millions of lives, the planning of the mass murder programme is already far advanced.

    Here is a reminder of what the ruling class, and in Britain most of their functionaries too, REALLY think. This is HEAVEN for customers of private schools and for Waitrose shoppers!

    (A) pandemic would be quite useful.

    (June Andrews, “dementia nursing expert”, 2020, who compares killing off the inmates of “care homes” to pulling off a sticking plaster – listen to the tone of the b****’s voice.)


    Nobody made them work there.

    (Cyril Smith on the workers who died of asbestos poisoning in the constituency he was supposed to represent.)

    “The men of the New Republic will not be squeamish, either, in facing or inflicting death, because they will have a fuller sense of the possibilities of life than we possess. They will have an ideal that will make killing worth the while; like Abraham, they will have the faith to kill, and they will have no superstitions about death. They will naturally regard the modest suicide of incurably melancholy, or diseased or helpless persons as a high and courageous act of duty rather than a crime. (…) The rulers of the future will grudge making good people into jailers, warders, punishment-dealers, nurses, and attendants on the bad. People who cannot live happily and freely in the world without spoiling the lives of others are better out of it.”

    (H G Wells, “Anticipations“.)

    #62899
    N_

    Inhaling tobacco smoke increases the severity of SARSCoV2 infection. But is there any talk whatsoever of banning smoking whether of paper-covered cigarettes or of “vape” liquid? (The next time I hear that it was the British kingdom’s “pioneer epidemiologist” “Sir Richard Doll” who “discovered the link” between tobacco and lung cancer in the 1950s I am going to throw up. Smoking was heavily discouraged in Nazi Germany because of known links to both heart disease and lung cancer. Meanwhile the US army bought cigarettes in large quantities and distributed them for free to its soldiers.)

    Keeping your immune system strong by consuming vitamin C, iron, zinc, etc., helps your body resist infection by harmful bacteria, viruses, and fungi. You would have thought this fact was easy enough for almost everyone to understand, but in this time of omnipresent “public health” proclamations by the public authorities is it ever even mentioned?

    #62900
    Clark

    N_, do you wish to discourage everyone from taking any vaccine against SARS-CoV-2? That’s a question; please answer it.

    You write a lot about “resisting” the vaccine, but according to the list in your Daily Mail link, I’m in the second lowest category of priority, so I’m not even expecting to be offered any of the vaccines for months yet.

    I’d rather have a decent vaccine than a real infection, but of course the longer term outcomes of the new vaccines become knowable only in the course of time – but that is true also of real infection. The health authorities seem unlikely to offer me vaccination before next spring, by when infection rates are likely to have dropped until autumn 2021. So I expect to decide about vaccination around September 2021, by which time there will be much better data.

    N_, do you think everyone should permanently avoid all the vaccines against SARS-CoV-2?

    #62901
    SA

    N-
    In your link
    A pandemic will be quite useful
    You do something that the mainstream media always do, taking things out of context. What the gist of what she said is that what happens solves temporarily a problem that has been caused by lack of making earlier decisions about priorities such as reviewing practice and spending money. You distort the meaning of what is being said. You then use another propagandistic device by linking it to what Cyril Smith said about asbestos as if it is the same thing. You never engage or answer. It appears to me is that what you practice is either trolling or propaganda, and I am not sure which is worse. Writing here and participating suggests a willingness to engage, but you don’t.

    #62903
    N_

    It’s easy to imagine the government being in a bit of a quandary regarding how to spin the vaccine and the royal family. They don’t want to present the holy monarch, who isn’t even seen eating on film, let alone having a needle stuck in her arm, as a “common mortal”. On the other hand, it doesn’t look too good if they present her as waiting for a month to see how many proles the vaccine has killed before she (supposedly) takes it herself. Any reference to the NHS in a story about the Vaccination of the Monarch will also be scrupulously crafted, given that as far as I am aware the billionaire parasite hasn’t ever used the NHS in her life because that would be far too common. (She mostly gets treated at London’s leading private hospital, King Edward VII’s. That’s when the medics don’t come to her, anyway.)

    #62906
    Clark

    N_, I asked you a question; is replying to the likes of me beneath you?

    #62908
    N_

    There is some hilarious discourse in the Daily Express about the sacred monarch and the holy vaccine. Should the blessed god-queen “lead by example”? Or should she be given the role that a guinea-pig” might be forced to play in an amimal-torture camp? Or should she receive the miraculous vaccine before everyone else, out of “respect for her position”?

    Maybe the team of 20 nurses who carry the vaccine vial and the Holy Needle on a golden platter into the special room at her favourite private hospital, preceded by a flamboyance of men in tights, should include at least one nurse who suffers from scrofula? Then the monarch could touch her in an generous attempt to cure her! Why not stage it all on Christmas Day, with a sprig taken from the Glastonbury Thorn on the table in front of her?

    The Express even quotes some wag who wrote that the monarch should take it first, followed by the rest of the royal family, then by the lords, then by the members of the House of Commons. “If they all survive then us plebs will know it’s safe.” 🙂 Sure, and maybe they could be sent hundreds of miles cross-country to take it, rather as some of the proletariat were sent long distances by the Nationalist Hygiene Squad (NHS) to be tested?

    Time to recall that the female pharoah’s husband, who is 99 years old, once said that if he is reincarnated (you what??) he would want to “come back” as a “killer virus”. (Imagine if someone in a mental hospital said that. Do we think they’d be discharged?)

    #62911
    SA

    Your allegories would work better if you leave the NHS out of it.
    It is indeed surprising that in this age of awareness and education two pillars of irrationality still persist as important points in the governance of this land, religion and monarchy. Herein is the fully acknowledged conspiracy to which many are willing subscribers to our and their own detriment.

    #62912
    SA

    That U.K. is a theocracy is not openly admitted. But how do you explain otherwise that the monarch has to be blessed by the head of the church in the ceremony of coronation, and that Bishops retain their status bestowed by the same monarch for them to remain as part of our ‘democracy’ as members of the House of Lords?

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