Vaccine contaminants and safety


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  • #54496 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    They only trick you into burning diesel because the noxious fumes are part of their depopulation Agenda 21. As you can see, Philip Cross or the like has been at the Wikipedia page. They even discredit it by calling by the weaponised term “conspiracy theory”.

    #54505 Reply
    SA
    Guest

    Paul
    Any comments on this article? I think it is a fairly good summary and it comes from a complementary cancer charity website. Interestingly gc-MAF is not approved for human therapeutic use in the US because it has not passed the appropriate trial stages required to approve medications. Also it seems to be freely available in Japan and other parts of Asia, so stock up to beat the conspiring PTB and beat them at their game.

    #54515 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ SA June 1, 2020 at 17:44
    Thanks for the link – glad you think it;s a good summary – I do too.
    Dr. Bradstreet isn’t the only doctor involved with alternative cures to die in mysterious circumstances. The US police do seem over-keen on calling strange deaths ‘suicides’, especially if the victim/s are ‘anti-Establishment’. The rate of deaths by such doctors is high, though there are sites that try to negate that fact by ‘working the statistics’.
    ‘…Gc-MAF is freely available in Japan, China and most of Asia…’
    I don’t know if that is true, but shall check it out; Immuno Biotech has definitely been closed down. David Noakes, who was reporting regularly to police whilst on bail awaiting a French extradition hearing (he had already served a sentence in prison in England) stopped reporting, and went underground, but recently got caught and imprisoned). His colleague is already being held in prison in France, awaiting trial.
    The trouble is, Immuno Biotech’s serum needed to be shipped chilled, which is problematical if from Japan, China or elsewhere in Asia.
    As you will have learnt, or perhaps you already knew, it Gc-MAF is a perfectly natural product, and according to patients who have received it in the past, it has a very good record of either curing or dramatically lengthening their lifetime (many 4th Stage cancer patients who had been given weeks or months lived considerably longer than the conventional doctors had given them, after they had said there was nothing further they could do.
    Glad we seem almost agreed on this Gc-MAF question, though maybe I have overestimated your agreement.
    Just one case – a British lady who had been given an extremely short time left by conventional doctors, took Gc-MAF and progressed so well that she retired to Cypress and was doing well, getting her regular Gc-MAF. The British authorities here got in touch with Cypriot police and they twice raided her house, confiscating her Gc-MAF. She died shortly after her supply was stopped. Maybe she would have died anyway, you might say; but it does go to show the lengths the ‘Authorities’ will go to to stop the use of Gc-MAF.

    #54516 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Clark June 1, 2020 at 10:40
    You are normally at least rational, but here you seem to be grasping at straws. Perhaps you should read SA’s linked article.

    #54522 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    No Paul, you should explain to me why you supported the PTB and the MSM by pretending to fix “diesel” engines, because even a broken clock is right twice a day. What power did they hold over you?

    #54533 Reply
    SA
    Guest

    By the way Paul. I was in no way endorsing Cancer active although it is not a bad place to start. It seems from what I gather to take a holistic approach to treatment of cancer so that patients may benefit from all aspects of cancer treatment including the promotion of healthy diets and lifestyle, endorsing some natural products and so on, but work with not against conventional medicine. You quote this from the gc-MAF article:

    Their Florida Clinic was raided and everything removed. Three days later Dr. Bradstreet apparently committed suicide. It was rather puzzling that he would choose to do this by shooting himself as he drove into a river, especially since as a doctor he would have had access to more dignified ways of dying.

    but you seem to ignore the message of the article, that there is no real proof that gc-MAF is a wonder treatment for cancer.
    In fact the quacks who promote gc-MAF claim that it works for almost anything other than an ingrowing toe nail, including cancer, autism, chronic fatigue syndrome and many other conditions.
    Here is a counterfoil for your smug complacency on this subject and the quakery associated with it:
    GcMAF, autism “biomed,” and the apparent suicide of an autism quack
    In this piece, the blogger who is a surgeon dealing with cancer analysis this whole episode.

    James Jeffrey Bradstreet was one of the world’s most famous — or infamous — physicians. He believed vaccines caused autism. He even testified so before Congress. Twice.
    But he didn’t just rail against Big Pharma. He also tried to beat it.
    Bradstreet offered thousands of autism patients around the globe controversial treatments. He claimed he could effectively cure kids of their autism, cancer and other maladies simply by injecting them with protein shots.
    When Bradstreet’s body was found last month in the Rocky Broad River in mountainous North Carolina with a bullet wound to the chest, therefore, friends, family members and patients pointed fingers at drug corporations. The FDA. Anyone but Bradstreet.
    “He did not kill himself!” one patient’s parent wrote online.
    “May God have vengeance quickly on the evil doers who murdered him!” wrote another.

    In any case, Bradstreet fled for North Carolina, and drove three hours northeast to Lake Lure, NC, where he checked into a hotel. There he learned that a First Immune clinic run by Noakes had been shut down in an investigation of five deaths associated with GcMAF treatments. In fairness, it’s not clear whether the deaths were due to GcMAF or just terminal patients dying, but Swiss officials were on the trail as well. Hours after learning of this, Bradford disappeared. He wasn’t seen alive again. Although the investigation is not complete, authorities are satisfied that Bradstreet had committed suicide.

    While it’s true that doctors who kill themselves are indeed more than twice as likely to use self-poisoning with drugs or other substances than the general population, they’re actually just as likely to use firearms, even in a population that doesn’t have many guns. In the gun-rich US, firearms are the most common method of physician suicide, being the method of nearly half of physician suicides and only slightly less common than in the general population. So all the incredulous dismissals of the conclusion that Bradstreet killed himself based on the belief that Bradstreet couldn’t have possibly killed himself with a gun because he’s a doctor and doctors don’t kill themselves that way are complete nonsense based on misinformation about physician suicide. To cast doubt on suicide as a cause of Bradstreet’s death will require a lot more than a mistaken belief that doctors don’t kill themselves with firearms, because they do.

    The truth Paul is that Dr Broadstreet was trying to fight big Pharma for the profits which he has been making using fake science based on ineffective products.
    You know, this discussion has been going on long enough. I feel I am feeding a thread which is harmful fot any readers and for the reputation of Craig Murray. This respected website should really not be used to promote anti-vaccine conspiracy theories. I will do my bit and stop trying to refute your wild allegations based on conspiracy websites. I personally advise others to do the same. It really is not worth the time spent on this, there are other more urgent problems.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    #54535 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ SA June 2, 2020 at 14:01
    I shan’t bother to try to respond; in view of your attitude it is clearly a waste of time.

    #54538 Reply
    mods-cm-org
    Guest

    Thank you for your efforts, SA. The prevalence of so-called conspiracy theories on this site is indeed a growing concern. Your thoughts on the issue are welcome in the ‘What is Conspiracy Theory?‘ thread.

    #54539 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    So what wouldn’t be a waste of time, Paul; acceptance and promotion of bullshit? I mentioned bullshit on the previous page but you ran away from the issue by changing the subject. Claims you promote are proven wrong over and over again, but you don’t withdraw or retract these claims. Instead you immediately change the subject, which effectively protects the disproven claims, and I wouldn’t expect you to object to them if someone else promoted them. This is intellectual cheating, and would be called out as such in a scientific or rational discussion. Do you want rational analysis of claims, are or your objectives polemical?

    And why won’t you engage about the diesel hoax? Why are you protecting their murderous agenda?

    #54540 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    Paul, I apologise, I should be more sympathetic. I realise that you only worked on diesels, and like the dumb doctors who give out murderous vaccines without knowing any better, you didn’t realise about over-unity “alternators”, and you didn’t mean to contribute to Agenda 21 depopulation. You just thought you were fixing “engines”. Sorry.

    #54542 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    mods-cm-org, thanks for your comment. The prevalence of so-called conspiracy theories is indeed a growing concern, and well beyond this site. The entire Internet seemed to offer the promise of bypassing the corporate gatekeepers of news and information, but it has become highly corrupted by the promotion of false claims, many of them life threatening, to the point that for the inexperienced and unwary, the Internet is becoming useless as a source of facts.

    With freedom comes responsibility; this inevitability seems to have been increasingly overlooked as the modern moral environment has developed. Peer-to-peer publishing is a relatively new form of freedom of expression, and I propose that to preserve and take advantage of this relatively new freedom we must develop and promote peer-to-peer critical analysis. But that will best occur once some rules of debate have been established. The very methods of so-called conspiracy theorists need to be called out and challenged.

    #54543 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    Open Access Library Journal:
    HCG Found in WHO Tetanus Vaccine in Kenya Raises Concern in the Developing World‘. (You need to download the pdf).
    So the WHO have been working on abortion and anti-fertility drugs, in conjunction with Tetanus, since 1972. Sorry to disappoint ya’lls confidence in the WHO, but I have been trying to inform you for yonks. Actually proving at this stage that the Kenyan and other vaccines were laced with hCG is obviously hard now, but I shall keep trying to get copies of the lab reports.

    #54546 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    “Sorry to disappoint ya’lls confidence in the WHO, but I have been trying to inform you for yonks”

    Yeah, very triumphant. But this appears to be merely the same story as before, recycled.

    PAUL, PLEASE HAVE THE COMMON DECENCY TO TREAT US AS YOUR EQUALS. You are NOT superior to nearly all around you, you are NOT the recipient of special divine guidance, and you are NOT engaging fairly or rationally.

    #54547 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    Until you do treat others as equals, and engage with their arguments, I am very sorry to say that you’re showing insufficient responsibility to have earned the freedom to publish. I abhor censorship, but I see no alternative. If you are unaware of what you have done to provoke me to write this, ASK, and I will explain. We will then discover if you are capable of listening, or whether you feel that information should flow only from you and only to others, ie. your lessers.

    #54548 Reply
    Dr Edd
    Guest

    @Paul Barbara – don’t start icing that self-congratulatory cake just yet! I was preparing a response about the Kenyan vaccine controversy at the weekend, but then I noticed that the conversation had quickly moved on so I let it go. I’m glad you’ve wound the clock back however, because we have unfinished business on that topic.

    First a quick note about the unreliable authority you’ve just cited. The lead author of that paper is John W Oller – a linguist who specialises in communicative disorders. To quote a reviewer: “Oller is not an immunologist, epidemiologist, virologist, microbiologist, or anything else that has to do with real vaccine science.”

    Notably, he published a book on Autism which argued that it was a consequence of (guess what?) vaccination!. The book has a foreword by none other than the notorious Dr Andrew Wakefield! Here’s an excerpt from the petition to get him sacked from the University of Louisiana for damaging their reputation.

    The scientific community has overwhelmingly concluded that vaccines do not cause autism, but Dr. Oller, who does not have a background in immunology, epidemiology or toxicology, continues to push an agenda  based on false premises and conspiracy theories. In his most recent book, Autism, he even has Andrew Wakefield, the discredited physician who launched the autism vaccine scare, write the foreword.  Not only has Wakefield had his medical license revoked, his original paper retracted from the publisher, and his theory widely discredited, he was found to have fraudulently presented his data with the plan of financial gain.

    Oller’s ideas aren’t just his own – they are directly affiliated with the University. He uses his University website to promote his books, his theories, and links to his blog, where he adamantly makes claims that toxins in vaccines cause autism.

    By promoting this dangerous idea, Oller is threatening the credibility of the University of Louisiana and its Department of Communications.  Because of his position, he also threatens student education by passing off his conspiracy theories as actual research.

    No credible academic institution should support a theory that has the potential to lead to widespread disease. Tell University of Louisiana at Lafayette and the Department of Communications to publicly denounce Oller’s statements about vaccines and autism and to ensure that he doesn’t spread his ideas to students.

    I italicised a phrase which I think is particularly germane to the present argument: “passing off his conspiracy theories as actual research“. He got academic tenure in virtue of his work on linguistics (so he’s obviously an intelligent guy!), and subsequently abused that position to publish nonsense on topics in which he has no training or expertise – only a shedload of ideological conviction.

    Oller recently published a paper arguing that the Bible is literally true (or in his terms, a “True Narrative Representation”). Ahem. He prioritises truth by “revelation” over sceptical inquiry. ‘Nuff said.

    Anyway that’s just some preparatory background … wait till you see what’s wrong with the content of his paper on the vaccine controversy in Kenya! I won’t reproduce it here, but there’s a wonderful demolition of his claims on Skeptical Raptor.

    That’s enough giggles for now. I’m pretty busy with other things, but I’ll aim to post more about the actual tests and the developments in Kenya tomorrow. Till then, sweet dreams. 😉

    #54564 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Clark June 2, 2020 at 19:03
    I provided you with a host of good solid references, the type of thing I thought you relished, the type of thing you kept asking me for, and all I get is the same old same old ad hominems.
    Of course I crowed – you and a few others have been on at me over the links I posted, now you have solid ones, and you ignore them, because the as near as dammit prove I was right about the WHO and the likes. I can understand your upset, but play the White Man.

    #54570 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Dr Edd June 2, 2020 at 20:20
    Firstly, twice I have ask if you are actually a doctor, and you still have not told me.

    [ Mod: Kindly refrain from interrogating people about their personal or professional lives. Note the Fair Play rule which states “Address the argument, not the person. To do otherwise will be an immediate warning flag for deletion.”
    The tactic of personalising arguments has been misused by a number of troublesome commenters (particularly Habbabkuk) in the past. Commenters have been banned for disregarding warnings about it. ]

    The fact that doctors, scientists, nurses or researchers who counter Big Pharma, government or MSM (often all three) get hammered in the press, lose their licence to practice and/or get ‘discredited’ – goes with the territory.
    As we have seen with Julian Assange, though I don’t believe Big Pharma are concerned in that case. Though, just as in that case, no matter how many ‘Bastions of Who Should Be Demonised’ do all in their power to destroy him, does not make them right. Nor does it make similar ‘Authority’ figures right when they demonise (or stay silent, out of a fear that they too will be targeted) people who think differently to themselves.
    ‘Biosemiotic Entropy: Concluding the Series’by John W. Oller, Jr. indicates how Oller got involved with autism and vaccines – so your inference that there is no reason for him to be knowledgeable in autism or vaccines does not hold water – his professional fortes doubtless led him to the study of the toxins which he knew disrupted the smooth progress of speech etc which he was well qualified to teach.
    Holding his Christian beliefs against him is perhaps overstepping the mark?
    Bit like another commententer or two raising eyebrows about the Kenyan Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Kenyan Catholic Doctors Association not being competent enough to get laboratory analyses on their suspicions re the Tetanus vaccines – perhaps a little bit of racism mixed in with a disbelief in religion.
    The link between vaccines and autism has NOT been disproved – a top CDC whistleblower doctor claimed information showing a definite danger to African/American babies was covered up.
    The link has been up on this thread before, though it might be difficult to find.
    Presumably you will show that the other six authors of the paper are also charlatans, or is it only Oller?

    #54571 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    For those new to this thread, the basic point being argued here is whether the WHO provided Tetanus vaccines secretly laced with anti-fertility hCG to Kenya (and other countries – Mexico, Nicaragua, Philippines).
    Here is part of my argument that they did, or at least, on balance of probabilities (you need to download the pdf for the full articles):
    ‘..In 1993, WHO announced a “birth-control vaccine” for “family planning”. Published research shows that by 1976 WHO researchers had conjugated tetanus toxoid (TT) with human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) producing a “birth-control” vaccine. Conjugating TT with hCG causes pregnancy hormones to be attacked by the immune system. Expected results are abortions in females already pregnant and/or infertility in recipients not yet impregnated. Repeated inoculations prolong infertility. Currently WHO researchers are working on more potent anti-fertility vaccines using recombinant DNA. WHO publications show a long-range purpose to reduce population growth in unstable “less developed countries”. By November 1993 Catholic publications appeared saying an abortifacient vaccine was being used as a tetanus prophylactic. In November 2014, the Catholic Church asserted that such a program was underway in Kenya. Three independent Nairobi accredited biochemistry laboratories tested samples from vials of the WHO tetanus vaccine being used in March 2014 and found hCG where none should be present. In October 2014, 6 additional vials were obtained by Catholic doctors and were tested in 6 accredited laboratories. Again, hCG was found in half the samples. Subsequently, Nairobi’s AgriQ Quest laboratory, in two sets of analyses, again found hCG in the same vaccine vials that tested positive earlier but found no hCG in 52 samples alleged by the WHO to be vials of the vaccine used in the Kenya campaign 40 with the same identifying batch numbers as the vials that tested positive for hCG. Given that hCG was found in at least half the WHO vaccine samples known by the doctors involved in administering the vaccines to have been used in Kenya, our opinion is that the Kenya “anti-tetanus” campaign was reasonably called into question by the Kenya Catholic Doctors Association as a front for population growth reduction…’

    #54573 Reply
    Dr Edd
    Guest

    You mention Assange and other martyrs who have been persecuted for telling the truth. There’s an important distinction. Those people are whistleblowers with insider knowledge; they aren’t ideologically-opposed critics who make up stories to challenge the consensus of expert opinion. John Oller isn’t a whistleblower by any stretch of the imagination. He explicitly notes in the article that the conclusion is only an opinion; all he can add to the unreliable test data released by the Catholic Bishops is his own suspicion (and of course that of the other authors).

    No, John Oller isn’t alone on that roll of dishonour. In the “Author’s Contributions” addendum to that article it says: “The bulk of the writing has been done by Oller with edits ranging throughout the development of the manuscript and reported findings by Shaw and Tomljenovic.” Now, if you scroll up to the top of the last link I provided you’ll see what the reviewer thinks of those two:

    Here we go with the same old story that I’ve pursued for years – the one about University of British Columbia researchers, Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic, who are amongst the most laughable anti-vaccine scientists (and I use the word “scientist” very loosely) to ply their pseudoscientific nonsense onto the world. Their articles are regularly retracted by even minor journals, but like zombies, those articles return to life in even more obscure, minor journals.

    The Open Access journal has a minuscule impact factor of 0.2 (which is roughly on a par with the Beano). It’s rather “special” in a key regard: the authors pay to get their articles published – which of course is a major incentive to the publishers. And it seems that on this occasion one of the peer reviewers was the esteemed Dr John W. Oller.

    Oller isn’t just a run-of-the-mill Christian: he’s a Biblical literalist. That puts him in some embarrassing company, and reveals a strong ideological motive to denounce certain aspects of medical science. I have no doubt he had his reasons to get involved with autism and vaccines, but it didn’t give him the requisite training to judge on the science. He didn’t have to pass exams in developmental pathology or immunology; he only had to read enough propaganda to cherrypick facts that suited his ideologically-inspired anti-vaxxer agenda.

    We can evaluate the reliability of those 4 tests you rely on, tomorrow.

    #54593 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    Paul, I’m sorry to have to say this, but in my opinion you are too arrogant to hold meaningful discussion with. Wakefield ordered invasive and surgical procedures to be performed upon ill children, including colonoscopy, and lumber punctures to obtain samples of spinal fluid. He did this not to improve their health which these procedures could not have done, but in the hope that the samples obtained would confirm his hypothesis. They did not, but he had literally used ill human children as experimental animals.

    I tell you this but I know that you will ignore it, because you cannot overcome your own prejudice. I find that distasteful in the extreme; it is my duty as your equal before God to tell you my opinion of you and my reasons for it. I have no expectation that you will even show any concern.

    There is very strong evidence against the proposed link between MMR and autism from several very large, public sector cohort studies and case control studies.

    Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. I am saddened. Good bye Paul.

    #54594 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    “For those new to this thread, the basic point being argued here is” whatever Paul Barbara changed the subject to most recently. Paul sets the agenda round here, and don’t no one forget it!

    #54597 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Dr Edd June 2, 2020 at 22:10
    Just a reminder – you still have not said if you are a doctor or not. I’m not asking for your credentials, just a straight-forward yes or no.
    I didn’t say any of these Tetanus case doctors were whistleblowers, but the CDC one I mentioned who did whistleblow on the CDC hiding the evidence for high risk of autism in Afro-American babies (or maybe Afro-Caribbean).
    I made it plain that the link between doctors who dispute the ‘Consensus’ narrative get demonised, as do whistleblowers and others who upset the PTB.
    The most vociferous and majority are not always right.
    I have just started reading ‘Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and Forgotten History’ by Suzanne Humphries MD and Roman Bystrianyk. I would not be surprised if they too have been demonised, seeing as they both disagree with the ‘Medical Authorities’.
    It promises to be immensely illuminating, and I have already learnt some startling facts I was completely unaware of, and I’m only on page 19 (plus Forward and Introduction).

    #54602 Reply
    mods-cm-org
    Guest

    A final reminder to you, Paul Barbara, to stop pressing people to reveal personal details. (See the inline advice in your comment at 21:30.)

    Kindly refrain from interrogating people about their personal or professional lives. Note the Fair Play rule which states “Address the argument, not the person. To do otherwise will be an immediate warning flag for deletion.”

    You may inquire once if you’re curious, but if an answer is not forthcoming then continued reiteration of the question constitutes a form of personal harassment rather than argument, infringing the Fair Play rule. You have no right to know such details and commenters are under no obligation to answer.

    The tactic of personalising arguments has been misused by a number of troublesome commenters (particularly Habbabkuk) in the past. Commenters have been banned for disregarding warnings about it. Accordingly, you’re now on final notice.

    #54608 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    “Suzanne Humphries MD and Roman Bystrianyk. I would not be surprised if they too have been demonised, seeing as they both disagree with the ‘Medical Authorities’. It promises to be immensely illuminating…”

    (sigh)

    https://medium.com/@visualvaccines/why-dr-suzanne-humphries-an-anti-vaccine-activist-is-lying-to-you-about-measles-ce446d0a7e0f

    “Her claims are often misleading and at times outright deceptive. This post outlines the types of questionable tactics she uses to support her claims by examining the measles chapter of her book”

    Without personal demonisation at all, Isabella B compares Suzanne Humphries’ claims to actual data, or follows them back to the scientific studies they were quote-mined from, or otherwise places them in context. I particularly liked this one:

    “Next, Dr Humphries speculates that measles antibodies (derived from vaccines) interfere with cell-mediated immune responses to the wild virus, leading to chronic measles infection and eventually immune related disorders later on in life:

    [ … ]

    – Her proof rests on a 1985 Lancer paper entitled “Measles Virus Infection without Rash in Childhood is Related to Disease in Adult Life”. This is a frequently misquoted paper because it is access restricted and has an obscure sounding abstract. After paying the $35.00 to access the full report, I realized that it did not study the effects of measles vaccination at all. It was a historical study done on individuals born in Copenhagen and Gentofte in the pre-vaccination era — specifically 1941 and 1947 onwards. It found that individuals who had contracted the wild form of measles (measured via antibody levels later on in life), without manifesting a rash (roughly 9% of the population), had a higher incidence of degenerative diseases later on in life.”

    (sigh)

    #54625 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Mods June 3, 2020 at 04:13
    I in no way meant it as an ‘attack’, I just wanted to know. I had not been warned before, and I shall not ask him again.

    #54626 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    Quoting Paul Barbara:

    “I made it plain that the link between doctors who dispute the ‘Consensus’ narrative get demonised, as do whistleblowers and others who upset the PTB.

    – I would not be surprised if [anti-vaxxer Suzanne Humphries and Roman Bystrianyk] too have been demonised, seeing as they both disagree with the ‘Medical Authorities’.”

    And June 2, 21:30 comment #54570 on the previous page:

    “The fact that doctors, scientists, nurses or researchers who counter Big Pharma, government or MSM (often all three) get hammered in the press, lose their licence to practice and/or get ‘discredited’ – goes with the territory.”

    Ben Goldacre has written two whole best-selling books disagreeing with and criticising governments, pharmaceutical companies, and government regulatory agencies of the pharmaceutical industry, and he’s absolutely scathing of the so-called MSM. They are exquisitely well researched and detailed books. I suppose the reason that Paul Barbara won’t take Goldacre’s work seriously is because Goldacre hasn’t lost his medical licence or been demonised, and various quacks have made mostly empty threats to sue him – one libel case cost half a million to defend.

    So this seems to be an argument against any kind of regulation of people claiming medical or technical expertise, or even an inversion – people may only practice medicine if they can demonstrate sufficient incompetence, though how they’d get started seems a bit mystifying; perhaps simple thuggery would suffice.

    It is interesting to note that those who constantly warn us of an impending One World Government seem to be advocating merely a dictatorship of their own entrenched beliefs.

    The Doctor Will Sue You Now by Ben Goldacre.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    #54641 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Clark
    I’m rather disappointed you didn’t comment on the abstract of Oller’s paper, which began:

    ‘In 1993, WHO announced a “birth-control vaccine” for “family planning”. Published research shows that by 1976 WHO researchers had conjugated tetanus toxoid (TT) with human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) producing a “birth-control” vaccine. Conjugating TT with hCG causes pregnancy hormones to be attacked by the immune system. Expected results are abortions in females already pregnant and/or infertility in recipients not yet impregnated. Repeated inoculations prolong infertility. Currently WHO researchers are working on more potent anti-fertility vaccines using recombinant DNA. WHO publications show a long-range purpose to reduce population growth in unstable “less developed countries”…’

    As you see, my believing the WHO was involved in just such practices was in fact correct. As they were interested in the objective, is it such a stretch to believe that, in conjunction with a mega-donor like the Gates Foundation, they just might have tried to do it by an illegal, immoral and underhand way?
    As I exolained in the comment to Dr. Edd, I have just started the book, so I will defer answering your comment till I have read more of it. But I will say ‘Isabella B.’, who is described (or describes herself) as:

    ‘Isabella is a mom who became intrigued by the vaccine debate when she first had a baby. She can be reached on Twitter.’

    certainly seemed to take a very intense interest and hostility to the good Dr. Suzanne Humphries, who quit her job because the Hospital protocols for treatment were killing her patients.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    #54682 Reply
    Dr Edd
    Guest

    @ Paul Barbara – June 3, 2020 at 22:27

    As they were interested in the objective, is it such a stretch to believe that, in conjunction with a mega-donor like the Gates Foundation, they just might have tried to do it by an illegal, immoral and underhand way?

    That’s the point where you step through the Looking Glass into a fantasy world where a frisson of suspicion can suddenly warp official statements into their opposites, where consensus is conspiracy, where trust is inverted and offers of support and protection become whispered threats of injury or death. It’s a scary realm of the upside-down and inside-out, where friends are fiends and an angel’s gown hides a demon in disguise. If you construct your arguments in that topsy-turvy dimension, be aware they’ll morph back into their opposites when you re-emerge into the real world.

    Is it such a stretch to believe that international health organisations and their benefactors are actually engaged in sinister worldwide conspiracies against humanity? Of course it is! It’s so much of a stretch that it starts to loop back on itself! It’s a Mobius strip where you keep trundling along the twisted line and end up standing under your starting position, wondering why everyone else is the wrong way up and left and right are the wrong way round!

    Let’s see how that path of reasoning got twisted in the vaccine scandal.

    You will note that every single paper cited by Oller as evidence of contraceptive effects, lists “G.P. Talwar” as an author. Prof. Gursaran Talwar was (and is) a pioneer in the study of contraceptive vaccines in India, a country that has long confronted the threat of overpopulation and consequent pollution and resource depletion. He was Head of the Indian Council of Medical Research from 1972-91. It’s true there was a joint research programme between the ICMR and the WHO (because the WHO co-ordinates and regulates the international development and monitoring of vaccines), but Prof Talwar’s research into contraceptive vaccines had nothing whatsoever to do with the WHO’s tetanus vaccination programme.

    The only part of the contraceptive research that involved tetanus was the study published in 1994 which used part of the tetanus toxin protein (a “toxoid”) as a carrier for the hCG vaccine. The carrier is designed to antagonise the immune system to react against the appended hormone. As it happens, they alternately used a diphtheria toxoid as a carrier in the same study. The research made great advances into novel methods of contraception, for the reasons explained in the paper. It had nothing to do with tetanus vaccination programmes.

    This 1994 study into contraceptive methods was mentioned, but misconstrued and misrepresented, at a church conference in Tanzania. The event gave rise to a sordid myth, casting Talwar as a Blofeld-type villain, which spread via the Catholic church to Kenya. The Kenyan Bishops’ Conference were up in arms about it and conducted their own ‘tests’ to find traces of hCG contaminants in tetanus vaccines. But the flaws in their methodology were readily apparent and were soon exposed by news media (inc. the Catholic Reporter). Far from being a triumph, the episode was an embarrassment for Kenyan Catholicism – as you’ll soon find out. Stay tuned.

    #54694 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Dr. Edd

    ‘…That’s the point where you step through the Looking Glass into a fantasy world…’

    So do you believe that in the ‘real’ (as opposed to my ‘fantasy world’) governments, international organisations, corporations and ‘philanthropic foundations’ do not lie, cheat do anything else they can to attain their objectives, on occasion?
    Bill Gates is alleged to have bribed Nigerian senators to push through a mandatory vaccine program against Covid – 19, even before one was available. Gate’s ‘Philanthropy’ is principally aimed at poor countries (the ones he would like to see with lowered populations) – his Foundation has created other organisations, which often set up joint programs in Third World countries, or even countries like India. In many of these countries, bribery is endemic (not that it isn’t in the West as well). Seeing as Gates has shares in many Big Pharma companies (and gives them tax-free ‘Grants’) his conflicts of interest are legion.
    As is what some would call his Eugenics depopulation agenda and his philanthropic attempts to ensure strong, healthy children.

    ‘Controversial vaccine studies: Why is Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation under fire from critics in India?

    ‘…In an opinion piece published recently in Deccan Herald titled “New Vaccines: Gates Foundation’s philanthropy or business?”, Dr Gopal Dabade of the All India Drug Action Network said that GAVI had committed a $165-million grant for the phased introduction of Pentavalent in India and provides a subsidy of Rs 145 per injection for five years after which the government will have to pay the total cost of the vaccines. “BMGF is a founding partner of GAVI. Its initial grant helped establish GAVI and it continues to support its work. Some of the pharmaceutical companies have affiliation with BMGF to manufacture the vaccine,” Dr Dabade said….’

    Bit like drug dealers – practically give the stuff away till you get the punters hooked, then charge what you like,
    There is a lot about the illegalities used to test HPV vaccines on poor Indian students in the link, which rather goes against the Gates Foundation’s stated noble intentions.
    Due to the general MSM love affair with Gates and his vaccines, and also the Social Media ‘censors’ like Youtube, it is difficult finding dirt on Gates without going to anti-vaxx sites, which only gets denounced here, but I’ll add one more point: Gates’ partner in crime Fauci’s mate Gallo has come up with a brilliant plan – to use oral polio vaccine as a possible temporary holding operation for Covid – 19!

    ‘Can an Oral Polio Vaccine Help Stop the Coronavirus?’

    It’s banned in the US and UK, because it can and has caused the very polio it is meant to stop – an example was Syria, where Syrian refugee children were given the oral vaccine and a number came down with crippling polio (whereas there had been no cases in Syria for some time).
    A bit like the ‘Democracratic Headchoppers’ the West sent Syria (via their local allies).

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    #54695 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    Paul, I wrote that I wasn’t going to discuss with you again, but since you’ve addressed your comment to me by name…

    No, I’m not going to look into yet another “issue”. I must have looked into dozens of “issues” that you’ve raised, and you’ve been wrong about every one of them that depends on a scientific matter. In fact most of them aren’t even issues at all; remember the “special fuses of a type used in controlled demolition” that turned out to be perfectly ordinary mains electricity fuses, as I confirmed with a link the manufacturer’s catalogue (Littelfuse)? Remember Dane Wigington’s water cascade that appeared to levitate but was actually a demonstration of the stroboscopic effect? But you never, ever accept the point. You merely drop the subject and move on to another, sometimes with an excuse. The discussions are entirely unproductive.

    I hoped that by reading Bad Science you would discover that the essence of scientific arguments is that they are based on reasoning about physical evidence. Goldacre is meticulous about that; he never relies on anyone’s qualifications or professional reputation. Instead he always examines their claims by considering evidence. However, you keep returning to arguments based on superficial plausibility concocted from a few cherry-picked phrases, supported by motives you impute to official institutions – these are the characteristics of what is called conspiracy theory. Not +a+ conspiracy theory. A type of reasoning called conspiracy theory, like harmonic theory or statistical theory.

    Governments and corporations do many evil things, but they also do good things, neutral things, misguided things and stupid things too. And they have no monopoly on deception; our world is rife with scammers, charlatans, and ideologically misguided zealots, most of whom will spin plausible but misleading yarns to advance their objectives or as cover stories for former wrongs. So it gets us nowhere to say “so-and-so is opposed by the government, they’re demonising him therefore he must be right”.

    So the only discussion I think would be worth having is about the methods we should use to determine the accuracy of any given claim. We could pick one specific claim, and stick to that subject until we reach a conclusion. Instead of trying to convince me, you should try to understand my reasons for the position I hold.

    This is why I concocted my “diesel engine over-unity alternator scam” story; I know that you have sufficient technical understanding of engines to know that I was spouting nonsense. On that subject, you don’t need to resort to “Professor so-and-so says that diesels do work by burning fuel with air”. Instead, you can go straight to reasoning about the evidence; “but if the fuel in the tank runs out, the engine will stop”, and that’s that, my over-unity motor disguised as an alternator claim is blown out of the water, no matter how many PhDs I have, and no matter how evil General Motors are or what ridiculous suggestions have appeared in their sales literature.

    So if you’re willing, I’ll discuss methods of reasoning with you.

    #54765 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Clark

    ‘…So the only discussion I think would be worth having is about the methods we should use to determine the accuracy of any given claim…’

    Once you realise that the WHO most assuredly has produced Tetanus-linked anti-fertility vaccines, it becomes much less of a stretch to consider their use surreptitiously, to stop women conceiving by underhand means, without their knowledge or consent.
    It doesn’t prove the charge, but it makes it much more credible.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    #54766 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    Once you realise that a diesel mechanic most assuredly has a vested interest in pretending to fix “diesel engines”, it’s much less of a stretch to believe that he might be working for the UN depopulation agenda.

    With conspiracy theory, one can make a case for anything. Readers employing conspiracy theory to test those cases can “stretch” their suspicion to confirm anything, forcing them to resort to their “crystal ball”. Any suspicion can become lore. But if the authorities behave this way, it’s called a fit-up.

    #54799 Reply
    Social Proximity.
    Guest

    Hi Paul.
    New participant here. Been watching the content on this thread for a while, and admire your steadfast resolution.
    Finding myself in harmony with your views much of the time, and hope to actively contribute as we go along.

    #54804 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    :/

    #54805 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Clark
    I did reply at length to your ‘Littlefuse’ business, but perhaps understandebly my post was nixed by the mods – probably for 9/11 content.

    ‘…Governments and corporations do many evil things…’

    Yes, indeed they do. Governments make war on other States, because they lust after their resources and the governments don’t kow-tow and allow the US and other Western Multinationals to come in and plunder them, and take a bribe to allow it. Tens, hundreds of thousands or millions DIE because of these wars.

    ‘…but they also do good things, neutral things, misguided things and stupid things too..’

    PLEASE explain to me what good things governments do, that balance those abominations? Abominations might seem like an extreme word to you, in Essex, but to an Afghan, Iraqi, Syrian, El Salvadoran, Guatemalan, East Timorese, or countless others, it hardly covers their suffering.
    Then there are the barbaric crimes against children in their own countries (which I don’t believe you have an inkling of the true scale, or of it’s Luciferian ramifications.
    Remember, Hitler loved dogs – does that exonerate him?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    #54807 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    It’s not about balance. A good no more balances a wrong than two wrongs make a right. Wrong is wrong, no matter what.

    But governments do some good things nonetheless. They fund infrastructure such as water supply and sewage treatment, they sponsor education and healthcare, some provide welfare, and they make laws and fund legal systems and enforcement that somewhat restrain the private sector; it’s inadequate, but better than nothing. They collaborate at the UN, preventing proliferation of nuclear weapons, and occasionally even enforcing international law. They fund science; publicly funded science is more open and less partisan than big pharma’s contribution.

    All of the above are done imperfectly, sometimes even perversely, and examples could be cited of contraventions of each positive point I have named. But the fact remains that the public have more influence upon governments than upon the private sector. So for instance we have the Montreal Protocol that enforced the replacement of CFCs, and the nuclear test ban treaties. There are conservation areas and protected species.

    No, abomination isn’t too strong a word for the warfare perpetrated by governments, but it’s not the whole picture either, and the private sector would make their war directly upon the people without the intervention of governments.

    #54817 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Clark
    Sure, they fund infrastructure, from tax-payer money, then sell it off cheap to the corporations, who make bundles, and on top of that when the infrastructure starts to fall apart due to profits being used for mega-salaries for the bosses, and high pay-outs to shareholders, they get bailed out by the poor old tax-payer again.
    They only try to stop ‘enemies’ or potential ‘enemies’ from getting nukes; they facilitated Israel getting them, and almost certainly Pakistan and India, and seem to be supporting Saudi Arabia. If Saddam’s Iraq had had nukes, it would not have been reduced to what it is now.
    Ditto Qaddafi’s Libya. And if North Korea didn’t have them, they would long ago have been subjected to ‘Regime Change’ attack.

    ‘…and occasionally even enforcing international law…’

    But far more often breaking it; and where they ‘enforce it’, it is because they have instigated the process as it suits their agendas.
    The Americans under T’rump are poised to break the nuclear test ban.
    I know you covered your arguments with ‘All of the above are done imperfectly, sometimes even perversely, and examples could be cited of contraventions of each positive point I have named..’ but that pretty much undermines them.
    And the general public’s influence on governments is just a tiny fraction of that of the Corporate and foreign lobbyists. Potentially it could be massive, but with the pied-piper MSM leading people up the garden path, or up the hill and down again, the ability for mass co-operative actions are pretty near gone. The NHS is about all that can come near to bringing people together.
    Unions have been largely emasculated; and as someone on another thread pointed out, many Union leaders now hob-knob with the Bosses in their Lodges, which is how they came to foist Starmer on the ‘Labour’ Party.
    The ‘virus’ certainly doesn’t do it – there are the two distinct camps, don’t end lockdown too soon, and the open up now before we all go bust.
    I’ve been very pleased, and surprised, by BLM demonstrators, police (only a few, but I have only interacted with a few), NHS personnel (a lot), and some ordinary people, at their willingness to consider (in some cases they have been full-blown on board) the case for the virus being a bio-weapon False Flag, and also a healthy distrust for a ‘Gates Universal Vaccine’.
    Did you make any of the BLM demos? There wasn’t a lot of ‘distancing’ going on there.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    #54823 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    I’d have liked to attend the Black Lives Matter protest but I didn’t find out about it until the afternoon, and I wouldn’t have been able to afford the train fare.

    What is your objective? I can’t work it out. From the way you campaign, you seem to want there to be no governments, no WHO, no UN, no corporations or businesses or maybe none above some unspecified size, and you want science replaced by suspicions, presumably those which coincide with your own, which seem derived from short phrases plucked from public announcements and the relatively tiny body of work that would remain from the likes of Wakefield and Mikovits were the entire mainstream of science swept away.

    And yet at the same time there are contradictions. From your June 8, 22:32 comment #54805, “…and the governments don’t kow-tow and allow the US and other Western Multinationals to come in and plunder them”, so even you are saying that all governments aren’t aligned. Yet these governments participate in the UN General Assembly, in fact they make up the majority of it, and the General Assembly often opposes the Security Council.

    Forgive me, but you seem engaged in an attempt to sort people and institutions into “sheep and goats”, as if each person or institution were entirely good or entirely evil. Yet everything I see in the world suggests that the opposite is the case, and that alongside campaigning for improvements at scales larger than the individual, each of us also has a responsibility to refine ourselves, our objectives and our understanding.

    Refining our understanding in the scientific fields is more easily done because the fundamental ethos of science is a type of honesty about evidence; faking data is grounds for expulsion from the scientific community. That underlying committent to reality is the very reason that scientific findings are so often dismissed by governments, mangled by the corporate media, and pursued in secret by corporations so that they hold control of which aspects get published and which suppressed. You have the likes of myself and SA who would work with you to understand the processes and the types of reasoning useful in assessing evidence; I think Dr Edd is also on the team, but with me and SA you have our writings on other matters especially foreign policy and war by which to judge our objectives. Yet you merely dismiss us as dupes, brainwashed by the corporate media, which neither of us are. You seem to have no interest in why, and more importantly how we have come to opposing conclusions to your own about, for instance, vaccines, chemtrails and the collapses of the Twin Towers. You seem to assume that we are merely too brainwashed to see. Yet I assure you that I spent weeks looking into those matters to reach my current positions; I have definitely not responded reflexively with opinions promoted by the corporate media. I have put in the work and come back to report – the corporate media has no monopoly on deception, misinformation and misdirection, and all humans are subject to error, and seem prone to becoming deceptive by fixing upon misleading conclusions and then promoting them using misleading techniques.

    Humanity needs science and truthful dedication to reality more than ever now. Reasoning from suspicions about hidden motives of powerful entities is what I would call conspiracy theory. It is not without utility, but it is most often applied with extreme bias, and it needs to be balanced against critical thinking and rational examination of evidence.

    #54829 Reply
    Paul Barbara
    Guest

    @ Clark

    ‘What is your objective?…’

    My objective is to get the truth out, as best I can. I am not an anarchist, I don’t want to do away with governments. It is just that Banksters, Corporations, foreign lobbyists, and foreign and domestic ‘Honey Trap’ blackmail has so thoroughly corrupted our governments and institutions, that they have become agents of the moneyed forces rather than of the people.
    Until people realise that, they cannot begin to even try to rectify the situation.
    Time and again you castigate ‘conspiracy theories’, yet history is full of successful False Flag Ops and very real conspiracies. Does anyone here raise a fuss about the alphabet ladies in the Alex Salmond case, and cry ‘conspiracy theory’? Or in the Julian Assange Swedish set-up? Or in Craig’s current predicament? Or the destruction of Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership of the Labour Party? Nobody is required to ‘prove’ these things are conspiracies – it’s bloody obvious.
    No, we all accept that these are very real conspiracies, yet balk at he thought that virtually everything is decided through just that, conspiracies. If we had open, transparent governance, and a justice system with strictly applied ‘conflict of interest’ laws that were enforced, things would be immensely better for we, the people. But that is not the case, and sadly is never likely to come about now that the system is so corrupted.
    Is everything led by conspiracies? Where money and power is involved, you would be hard pressed to find anything controversial and involving power and money that isn’t.
    The same holds for Universities, prestigious Medical and other societies, Church hierarchies, many Charities, some major Human Rights organisations, and of course our old friend, the MSM.
    I believe we are on almost the same page, there is not much that separates us, so don’t blow things up unnecessarily. We can disagree without hostility, surely.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
    #54830 Reply
    Clark
    Guest

    “Time and again you castigate ‘conspiracy theories’…”

    Please reassess what you think my position is, on two counts. Firstly, I wrote:

    “…what I would call conspiracy theory. It is not without utility”

    Secondly, please also consider the difference between (1) +a+ conspiracy theory, or conspiracy theories, and (2) conspiracy theory. From yourdictionary.com:

    “The definition of a theory is an idea to explain something, or a set of guiding principles. Einstein’s ideas about relativity are an example of the theory of relativity. The scientific principles of evolution that are used to explain human life are an example of the theory of evolution.”

    From merriam-webster.com:

    “in scientific reasoning, a hypothesis is an assumption made before any research has been completed for the sake of testing. A theory on the other hand is a principle set to explain phenomena already supported by data.”

    So there are two different uses of the word “theory”:

    (1) The one people usually tend to think of is “+a+ theory”, which means “a suspicion” or “a proposal”.

    (2) The one people usually forget about is “theory” on its own, and it means a set of principles for guiding thought about a matter. Examples include the driving theory test, and music theory.

    I think there is a lot of confusion around these two subtly different uses of the one word “theory”. Do you get the distinction I’m describing?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by modbot.
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