The Tsarnaev Conundrum

by craig on April 20, 2013 1:28 pm in Uncategorized

Cui Bono? Putin. The alleged actions of the Tsarnaev brothers are a massive setback to the cause of Chechen nationalism. The Russian government have been trying for a decade to conflate the repression of Chechen nationalism with the western construct of “the global war on terror”, with very limited diplomatic success. Now expect to hear continually about “Al Qaeda in the Southern Caucasus” in the next few years. Events in Boston have been a massive diplomatic coup for Putin.

In the late 1830’s, Palmerston launched a (disastrous) secret service operation to ship weapons to anti-Russian rebels in modern Chechnya and Dagestan. This was contributory to the tensions that caused the First Anglo-Afghan War, and will feature in my forthcoming biography of Alexander Burnes. For almost two hundred years now there has been covert Western encouragement of anti-Russian movements in the Caucasus – which is not to say that the West was involved in or encouraged the urban terrorist wing of the Chechen nationalist movement in modern times. But links between Chechen nationalists and the US government have been maintained, and there is no support whatsoever among any significant Chechen nationalist leadership for the Boston bombings.

I cannot recommend too highly “Darkness at Dawn” by David Satter, a book which is crucial to an understanding of a key part of the modern world. Satter sets out an extremely strong case, from eyewitness interviews at the time, that The “Chechen” apartment bombings which paid such a crucial part in building the cult of Putin, were false flag – something which the British Embassy in Moscow also strongly inclined to believe. There is a history of false Chechen bombings being very helpful to Putin. These bombings are very helpful to Putin.

It is perfectly possible that this is not relevant at all, and the Tsarnaev brothers became radicalised in the United States by real, and non-Chechen related, terrorists, or simply auto-radicalised. But presuming the Tsarnaevs really did plant these bombs, just who was ultimately pulling the strings and why may be an extremely complex question – and one to which young Dzokhar Tsarnaev is most unlikely to know the real answer.

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120 Comments

  1. One of the lad’s mums is on Sky news just now reporting that the FBI have been working with or on these 2 suspects for the last 5 years… Allowing then to amass explosives? Grenades?

  2. Was Litvinenko killed because he knew that the moscow bombings were false flag operations carried out by Putin’s agents to discredit Chechens in the eyes of russians and pave the way for brutal war?

  3. Larry,

    Well, it was one of the things he was saying, but then it’s hardly a secret. He was killed pour decourager les autres, to misquote.

  4. I am very happy to learn that the US is feeding the Syrians through its Muslim friends while squeezing Assad to death. The sooner the better inshallah.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/us-feeds-syrians-but-secretly/2013/04/14/bfbc0ba6-a3b3-11e2-bd52-614156372695_story.html

    Radio 4’s Question time from the US last night exposed the US speakers as having swallowed Obama’s arguments in favour of drones hook line and sinker. Maybe they need blowing up, in some people’s minds, and that argument can persuade a Chechyan to get involved in a false-fag crime.

    The place was crawling with agents, whose purpose would surely be to search people carrying rucksacks. Cui bono? A chance for diverting attention from the UKUSISRUSSCHINEUROSAUDIQATAR false flag events in Syria to a Humungous outrage on US citizens at home.

  5. Sorry. Any Questions.

  6. from russia today’s website

    “The United States and Russia have agreed to increase their cooperation in the fight against terrorism following the deadly bombings in the American city of Boston.

    “In a telephone conversation with US President Barack Obama on Saturday, Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed the means to step up cooperation between Washington and Moscow on security issues, the Kremlin said in a statement.

    “‘Both sides underscored their interest in bolstering the close cooperation of Russian and US special services in the fight against international terrorism,’ the statement further read.

    “Meanwhile, Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov said in televised remarks that “contacts will be conducted between our intelligence services.”……

  7. Davy de Verteuil

    20 Apr, 2013 - 3:11 pm

    As I saw folks weep I wondered: do Syria Iraqi Somali African Yemeni Pakistani infants weep or do they have names? Rucksacks & Drone explosions kill. Putin raised false flags, sufficient to get want he wanted unlike his detractors in the West that gave us False flags to blatant Droning. America never had measure on its madness

  8. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 3:21 pm

    “It is possible that she is saying that Anzor Tsarnaev was a soldier or security policeman for the pro-Russian Chechnyan government of Akhmet Kadyrov, established in 1999 in the course of the Second Chechnya War against the Islamic Peacekeeping Army, which had invaded Daghestan.”

    Then there’s this which was news to me….

    “Most ex-Soviet Muslims are secular and many don’t believe in God or think religion is important. Their families lived under a Communist regime for some 70 years, with its campaigns of official atheism and anti-religious indoctrination in schools. In the ex-Soviet Muslim-heritage republics, there are huge struggles between those happy in their secularism and those who are attempting to recover a Muslim identity. That struggle has played out in Chechnya as well as in Uzbekistan.”

    http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/fathers-sons-chechnya.html

  9. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 3:25 pm

    FBI interviewed the elder brother. I am quite surprised they took him alive. Now there is a chance we will learn the motive.

    It seemed an anarchistic pan-motivation. Murmurings of Armenian slaughter etc.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57580534/fbi-interviewed-dead-boston-bombing-suspect-years-ago/

  10. Interesting post, Mr M.

    Unfortunately, we might never learn what the surviving Tsarnaev brother has to say. If he was involved in these bombings, and the conspiracy comprised more than just two angry young men acting on their own volition, he might be offered a deal to beat the death sentence to prevent geopolitical intelligence from being revealed in a public trial. Then again, the fact that the brothers are Chechen and Muslim could be completely irrelevant and there might be an altogether different, politically unremarkable explanation. We’re just going to have to wait and see. In the meantime, I’m looking forward to what conspiracy theory (of the crackpot variety) pops up first.

  11. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 3:39 pm

    The FBI interview I posted above said he was interviewed at the request of a ‘foreign government’ Which one? Russia.

    The FBI interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the elder of the brothers suspected in the Boston bombings, in 2011, two U.S. law enforcement officials told ProPublica Friday evening. The FBI agents conducted the inquiry into suspected extremist or terrorist activity at the request of a Russian security agency, the officials said.

    “Yes he was interviewed,” a U.S. law enforcement official said. “Nothing derogatory came of it. We reported it back to the other agency, but never got anything as far as further communications from them. There was never any reason to do anything else.”

    http://www.propublica.org/article/boston-bombing-suspects-echo-home-grown-terrorists-in-madrid-london-att#

  12. Fathful Reader

    20 Apr, 2013 - 3:55 pm

    Craig,

    While you now acknowledge the concept of a false-flag attack, do you still maintain that the most spectacular and obvious false-flag attack in history, was not, in fact, a false-flag attack? Because that’s the one thing that stops me taking you seriously.

  13. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 4:02 pm

    “On closer inspection, it turns out that this so-called “mounting criticism” is in fact being driven by a specific group in the Russian political spectrum – and by its American supporters. The leading Russian critics of Putin’s handling of the Beslan crisis are the pro-US politicians Boris Nemtsov and Vladimir Ryzhkov – men associated with the extreme neoliberal market reforms which so devastated the Russian economy under the west’s beloved Boris Yeltsin – and the Carnegie Endowment’s Moscow Centre. Funded by its New York head office, this influential thinktank – which operates in tandem with the military-political Rand Corporation, for instance in producing policy papers on Russia’s role in helping the US restructure the “Greater Middle East” – has been quoted repeatedly in recent days blaming Putin for the Chechen atrocities. The centre has also been assiduous over recent months in arguing against Moscow’s claims that there is a link between the Chechens and al-Qaida.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/08/usa.russia

  14. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 4:04 pm

    “Author John Laughland wrote: “the leading group which pleads the Chechen cause is the American Committee for Peace in Chechnya (ACPC). The list of the self-styled ‘distinguished Americans’ who are its members is a roll call of the most prominent neoconservatives who so enthusiastically support the ‘war on terror.’

    “They include Richard Perle, the notorious Pentagon adviser; Elliott Abrams of Iran-Contra fame; Kenneth Adelman, the former US ambassador to the UN who egged on the invasion of Iraq by predicting it would be ‘a cakewalk’; Midge Decter, biographer of Donald Rumsfeld and a director of the rightwing Heritage Foundation; Frank Gaffney of the militarist Centre for Security Policy; Bruce Jackson, former US military intelligence officer and one-time vice-president of Lockheed Martin, now president of the US Committee on Nato; Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute, a former admirer of Italian fascism and now a leading proponent of regime change in Iran; and R. James Woolsey, the former CIA director who is one of the leading cheerleaders behind George Bush’s plans to re-model the Muslim world along pro-US lines.”

    http://consortiumnews.com/2013/04/19/chechen-terrorists-and-the-neocons/

  15. “In the meantime, I’m looking forward to what conspiracy theory (of the crackpot variety) pops up first.”

    Try the David Icke forums. The paranoid loons there were convinced it was a false flag attack, and a staged one at that, before the dust had settled. They’ve come to the same conclusion over Sandy Hook and the London helicopter crash. Hard evidence isn’t high on their priority list obviously.

  16. Stephen Morgan

    20 Apr, 2013 - 4:12 pm

    Apparently he had a VK (like a Russian Facebook) page, one of them. And born not in Chechnya, but Kyrgyzstan. I also saw a site post a link to his Amazon wish list, which contained a couple of books about how to speak Chechnyan, among true crime books, organised crime books, and cassette tape about voice training.

  17. Why this talk about Chechnya?
    We have no info about their motives, although that this somewhat was a chechynya-attack is nonsense.
    Lets not fall in the msm-boogeyman trick to blame chechnyans or muslims for this act.

  18. I’d like to see the real evidence presented, so far we only know what we’ve been told with the now normal hysterical wall-to-wall tv and newspaper coverage since Monday’s bombings.

    You can always tell there’s something odd going on, when Sky news covers a partiicular story and throws every available resource at it and gives it maximum exposure.

    Maybe some Americans reading this blog can comment if it’s the normal practice state-side to “lock-down” a whole city and call out the armed militia when there’s a man-hunt in progress. Afterall a murder or two in “America” is hardly a rare occurance.

    Quite amazing that they have so many tooled up monkeys on-hand waiting to kick-ass and harrass joe public, what on earth do they do when there’s no emergency, hand out speeding tickets ? It’s really very scary place and best avoided if at all possible.

  19. so Craig Murray is a conspiracy theorist along the lines of 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

    false flag operations, sophisticated double or triple bluffs, etc, etc.

    Unbelievable this person used to be a diplomat or something if i remember right?

    The simple explanation is some Muslims set some bombs off in America.

    Occam’s razor.

  20. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 5:23 pm

    Connecting the dots does require some curiosity.

    Let’s all build a campfire and sing some songs…:)

  21. Yes, connecting the dots.

    That phrase is often used, isn’t it.

    I’m sure we can look forward to all kinds of ‘analysis’ of this tragic but straightforward amateur terrorist attack from all kinds of loons.

  22. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 5:45 pm

    Yet you keep returning to absorb more, or deflect and obfuscate. Toodle loo…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/us/boston-marathon-bombings.html

    “Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was killed early Friday after a shootout with police in Watertown, Mass., traveled to Russia for six months in 2012. Law enforcement officials are now conducting a review of that trip to see if Mr. Tsarnaev might have met with extremists or received training from them while abroad, current and former intelligence and law enforcement officials said.”

  23. And?

  24. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 5:57 pm

    I’m warming some formula for you as we speak. Solid food later.

  25. Ok, I’m assuming he went to Chechenya. (Technically part of Russia). Or maybe Dagestan.

    Either of which is considered a front line for Al Quaida and there are numerous Islamic terrorists there.

    So I’m just wondering what’s weird about a terrorist doing that.

  26. Cui bono?

    Reza Khalili, the CIA agent who posed as an IRG member and famous Michael Jackson impersonator , says Iran did it! Full speed ahead to Tehran.

    Plus the MIC – not enough guns, security cameras, surveillance, privatized security.

    Plus training the populace to accept lockdown – or ‘Shelter in place’ for fans of Orwell.

  27. Haverruka got leave for the weekend off?

  28. except everybody with a functioning brain knows that Iran is Shiite and nothing to do with the radical Sunni Islamic terrorists in southern russia, presumably.

  29. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 6:37 pm

    It’s difficult to educate the illiterate.

    http://atimetobetray.com/about/

  30. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 6:42 pm

    Hmm. No mention of Turkey.

    The human rights picture in many countries remained deeply troubling last year, the State Department said Friday, with the Middle East facing “the harsh realities of incomplete and contested transitions,” Russia and Iran cracking down on activists, and many governments harshly suppressing both new and traditional media.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/politics/state-dept-sees-little-progress-on-global-human-rights.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

  31. Could you spell out clearly what I supposed to be learning from this conspiracy site rather than me having to guess what you are trying to suggest?

  32. By the way, Cui bono is facile reasoning.

    Numerous people happen to benefit from numerous disasters.

    It’s idiotic to think they all therefore engineered them.

  33. technicolour

    20 Apr, 2013 - 7:34 pm

    a) “It is perfectly possible that this is not relevant at all, and the Tsarnaev brothers became radicalised in the United States by real, and non-Chechen related, terrorists, or simply auto-radicalised”

    b) Nice to see that ‘auto-slanging’ is once again the default mechanism here

    c) Given the atrocities perpetrated on Chechnya, it’s good to see a post which remembers and expands on them.

  34. @ Technicolour, who writes (correctly) :

    “b) Nice to see that ‘auto-slanging’ is once again the default mechanism here”

    ******

    Yes, and what’s more they’re managing it without any help from me! Which shows, I think, that some people are just – by their nature – incapable of serious and civilised discussion when challenged. Nothing to do with Habbabkuk, therefore.

  35. So the Russians do ‘False Flag’ terrorism, but we don’t eh Craig. Perish the very thought!

    Did it ever occur to you that the reason Putin is so supportive of the Western official 9/11 narrative might have something to do with a sort of quid pro quo over those appartment bombings? – except of course, you still maintain the official version the 9/11 attacks to be accurate don’t you?

    There is good reason Putin is no Angel. It is because, were he anything but a cunning hard-nosed ruthless bastard, he would soon go the way of Gorbachov and Yeltsin. What’s left of Russian independence from West hegemony would then be devoured by the far more vicious, cunning and ruthless bastards that call the shots in the West – and in very short order indeed.

    And, since the FBI have self-confessedly been the originators of most of the US home-grown so-called ‘terrorist plots’ of the past 5 years, as pointed out by your good self on several occasions as I recall, is there any reason to suppose that something similar is not going down in Boston right now? – with or without Russian connivance?

    Angry young men of limited intelligence and with serious grievances are tailer-made potential Patsies – as all good SIS practitioners well know. Both the US and UK have vast ready made supplies of them.

  36. “The simple explanation is some Muslims set some bombs off in America.”

    Occam would have told you that this is not an explanation, merely a quick summary of news reports.

  37. Wikispooks,
    I absolutely agree with,

    ‘There is good reason Putin is no Angel. It is because, were he anything but a cunning hard-nosed ruthless bastard, he would soon go the way of Gorbachov and Yeltsin. What’s left of Russian independence from West hegemony would then be devoured by the far more vicious, cunning and ruthless bastards that call the shots in the West – and in very short order indeed.’

    Putin just like Iran is waging a defensive war to maintain the independence and resources of their countries.

  38. Wikispooks,

    I don’t believe I have ever said we don’t do false flag bomb attacks. I have said I don’t think 9/11 was one.

  39. “Conspiracy,” used twice in your new friend Billy Bob’s first sentence. They’re trained to think the word is devastating.

    No one’s talking about conspiracy, we’re talking about crime by US government officials: incitement and entrapment to mass murder, supply of explosives and illegal biological weapons, enforced disappearance, attacks on the domestic civilian population; systematic policy constituting universal-jurisdiction crimes against humanity with no statute of limitations. Ask Abraham Bolden. Ask the jury in King Family v. Jowers. Ask Carol Howe. Ask Emad Salem. Ask Richard Blee and Spike Bowman. Put them under oath. In any independent court the accumulated evidence will convict key personnel in the US civilian-military command structure going back to 1962.

    Nobody believes the US government any more, much less its disembodied patriotic voices like billy bob. The USG is discredited. It has forfeited its sovereignty for crime and it will stop at nothing to maintain its impunity. The loonies are the people who deny it.

  40. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Apr, 2013 - 10:46 pm

    “On June 12, 2012, the House Foreign Affairs Committee passed what was called in part the “Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012” and on December 14, 2012, it was signed by President Obama. It had nothing to do with the rule of law as it pertained to the prisoners indefinitely detained in Guantanamo, the torturing of prisoners in U.S. custody, nor did it have anything to do with the fact that Mr. Magnitsky was held in prison for 8 days less than one year without being brought to trial. Its stated purpose was simply to punish 18 Russian officials the Congress thought were responsible for Mr. Magnitsky’s treatment. It prohibited them from entering the United States and froze their banking assets within the United States.

    In response to the Magnitsky act, Russia took a number of steps, the most recent of which was to ban 18 Americans from entering Russia. Those banned by the Russians include Americans the Russians believe were involved in human rights violations and others who have violated the “human rights and freedoms of Russian citizens abroad” by prosecuting those citizens. The Russians are supported in their belief that the United States was involved in human rights violations by the Constitution Project Study% that was released on April 16, 2013.”

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/04/20-0

  41. @ All,
    If any rational person considers this operation, then further considers the official releases then withdrawals and reversals on the Boston bombings – one is left with a question such as this:-
    http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/wars/northwoods.pdf
    The above gets really interesting at page 8.
    If government is willing, as revealed in this official document, to deceive and fabricate to launch “false flag” operations – what won’t a government now in deep despair in very trying economic times not be motivated to try or actually do?
    CB

  42. Wikispooks, you have no evidence of 911 being an “inside job” and such silly claims are not welcome here. 19 Arab Muslims committed 911, using airplanes as cruise missiles. Plain and simple.

  43. To refer to and build on Craig Murray’s post:-
    The evidence of what was said when the Boston bombings happened from:-
    a) The official media and main stream releases; versus
    b) The reversals as the other version of events were posted on youtube – becomes quite telling.
    One might apply Occam’s razor in considering the facts.
    “False flag” operations having taken place over and over again ( inclusive of the Bay of Tong King incident – when President Johnson forgot the international date line, then announced the alleged North Vietnamese bombing of a ship – as the excuse for the US entering the Vietnam war – or – the more recent and notorious WMD lies relative to Saddam Hussein, are of great moment) and these remain instructive and relevant to what states are capable of doing.
    If one is in need of a historical reference point, then when Lord Palmerston commenced a secret service operation in the 1830s, trying to ship arms to anti-Russian rebels in modern Chechnya and Dagestan, this contributed to the tensions and causes of the original Anglo-Afghan war ( as Murray points out).
    The “Chechen” apartment bombings were, in my opinion, a Russian “false flag” operation. It did assist Putin tremendously.
    If the Tsarnaev brothers did anything relative to these bombings:-
    Were they willfully radicalised in the United States to serve an ulterior purpose?
    Who ultimately pulls strings in these types of operations?
    There are questions to be asked and answers that should be forthcoming.
    The naïve amongst us – sadly – automatically and unthinkingly accept the official version of events. But – just who was ultimately pulling the strings and why – may be extremely complex questions – but questions nevertheless worth asking and analysing.

  44. ” More than 11,000 people in the U.S. were murdered with guns in 2011 ”

    30 people murdered a day in U.S. by shooting and
    one day last week 3 people were murdered by bombs. Why do we hold our breath to hear what their government has to say about that?
    They seem to go out of their way to be unbelievable. If there are no disturbing anomalies about this narrative we would have to assume it is reliable? The only thing you can be sure of is the ever present deployment of distraction and deceit.

  45. Anne O'Nimmus

    21 Apr, 2013 - 12:51 am

    I looked at the fbi pics, on their website, and am at a loss as to where the ‘pressure cookers’ were. Neither backpack seemed particularly heavy, neither seemed to potentially hold even a mini version of a pressure cooker. Are we being misdirected?

  46. There’s something odd about this story. Why would Chechens have any interest in killing Americans at all? America has never occupied Chechen territory.

  47. Craig,

    The facts of 9/11 can lead to only one conclusion, it was an inside job. If you think Putin was capable of an inside job, how much more do you think the US needed one to take over the resources of Iraq and the opium crop and strategic position of Afghanistan?

  48. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Apr, 2013 - 1:18 am

    Abe: As much as it chafes, we have to wait. There is not the firstfuck thing we know, except that they’re angel terrorists one of whom the FBI interrogated ostensibly @ Russian security request; one was a naturalized (the younger) citizen who actually came to US before his older brother. The elder is deceased, the younger in the hospital with serious injuries. The US, ostensibly seeks to interrogate before a lawyer can be called. It’s all perfectly legal, of course.

  49. Karel (a conspiracy a day keeps idiocy away)

    those who know my modesty might be surprised that after some deliberation I have decided to embelish my name, like so many others before me (eg. the magnificent halibabacus – la vita in culo è bella), to flow with the trend. Laggards like Jon Pelfrey might be surprised to learn that it was more than 15 years ago when I filed a US patent application proposing to use airplanes as cruise missiles since this seemed to me to be a simple solution for recycling the old crap that would otherwise be left to rot in the Mojave desert. I have already initiated several patent infringement proceedings against the presumed pilots involved in 9/11. Unfortunately they are still in hiding and cannot be brought to justice. Can anyone help?

  50. Billy Bob,

    “Ok, I’m assuming he went to Chechenya. (Technically part of Russia). Or maybe Dagestan.”

    Wow Billy…could you be any more vague in your assumptions?

    Nah…thought not.

    Welcome,yet another troll.

  51. Jon Pelfrey

    “Wikispooks, you have no evidence of 911 being an “inside job” and such silly claims are not welcome here. 19 Arab Muslims committed 911, using airplanes as cruise missiles. Plain and simple.”

    Oh do run along now Jon.This is the second night in a row you’ve made an arse of yourelf…

    Are you being paid to spout the certainty of yer guff?

    Oooft!

  52. And the really naive people think the fertiliser explosion in Waco(on the 20th anniversary of the Waco siege) was just a natural explosion and had nowt to do with the Patriots Day bomb at the Boston marathon…noooo…no connection at all….move along sheeple…nothing to see here…

    Riiiiight….

  53. “Laggards like Jon Pelfrey might be surprised to learn that it was more than 15 years ago when I filed a US patent application proposing to use airplanes as cruise missiles since this seemed to me to be a simple solution for recycling the old crap that would otherwise be left to rot in the Mojave desert. ”

    I fear your application would’ve been rejected.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Aphrodite

    So funny when a “Troofer” accuses someone else of being an arse but then it’s so much easier to just throw insults around than actually produce some evidence.

  54. Carl Jung, argued that our conscious and unconscious beliefs exist in opposition to each other. The more vociferously someone defends a belief, Jung held, the more we can be sure that he is defending it primarily against his own internal doubts, which will someday surge into consciousness and force a polar shift in perspective.

    Sartre wrote, to be self-deceived, “I have to know this truth very precisely in order to hide it from myself the more carefully.” To be in denial, then – to not know things that, given the available evidence, we should know – we must be both the deceiver and the deceived.

  55. The law enforcement bodies were spectacularly, ah, tooled up weren’t they? Seemed a bit of over-kill for two patsies, if you ask me. And the continual ‘leaking’ that goes on is becoming absurd. These newspapers will print any old bullshit won’t they, if it comes from an authority figure.

    OT. On 9/11, there is arguably plenty of ‘evidence’ of it being an inside job. However, this evidence just isn’t accepted by non-Truthers. It’s an interesting case actually. Cards on the table, I don’t believe 9/11 was an inside job either. However, it’s interesting that the ‘Truthers’ actually DO think they have evidence – but this evidence is debated, or simply not accepted, by non-Truthers. So I’ve read long arguments about engineering, and explosions, a missing building – at one point somebody even ventured into the realms of Plank’s Constant! But the 9/11 truthers seem to be arguing that they are citing the evidence, that the facts are actually in the public sphere, but people are, for whatever reason, refusing to see. I say again, I’m sceptical, but far less sceptical than I was ten years ago, that’s for sure.

    Here’s a thought for the day. Imagine Assange got his crafty hands on some 9/11 style leaks.

    Actually, scratch that. They’d just storm the embassy and shoot him in the head. I’m quite sure they’ve considered this previously.

  56. From the Daily Mail:

    “One theory is that Tamerlan may have been inspired by the man known as Russia’s Bin Laden – Doku Umarov.”

    May I just swiftly doff my cap at Craig Murray. Well known front for the security services – The Daily Mail – has just, in one short sentence, linked the Boston attack, Chechen ‘terrorists’ and Bin Laden\Al Qaeda. Good work. And I think Craig just called it spot on.

    I begin to wonder if I should just filter all corporate media sites. The constant barrage of bullshit becomes sorta wearing.

  57. Brendan; police all over tend to go for overkill. You might remember the Met needed 56 armed officers with 100 guns to bring down one drugged up solicitor with a 12 bore a couple of years ago.

    Julian Assange has gone on record stating that 9/11 was not an inside job and annoyance that it distracts attention away from real conspiracies. Wikileaks did publish 570,000 pager messages sent on 9/11 which was one of the most unfathomable things they’ve done. The messages don’t add anything to our knowledge of what happened that day and would seem to be of interest only to voyeurs and “Truthers” looking for a smoking gun which isn’t there.

    http://911.wikileaks.org/

    Problem with most of the so-called evidence the truth movement relies on is that either it isn’t evidence at all or is just plain wrong. Another problem is that there is never just a single conspiracy theory but a whole box full ranging from the simple They Let It Happen through to the totally bizarre. Each one of course coming with it’s own “incontrovertible evidence”. The latest idea about 9/11 is that it was totally faked, no planes, all the footage you see is CGI, and nobody died! The buildings were empty. This incidentally is what is being put forward as an explanation for the Boston bombing and the Sandy Hook shootings. Apparently all the mutilated victims and grieving relatives are actors and the explosions faked using CGI.

    It’s little wonder really that the overwhelming majority treat the Truth movement with ridicule.

  58. @Kempe 21 Apr, 2013 – 3:08 am

    Totally fallacious argument. You don’t fool anybody, buddy!

  59. Oops, sorry for the repost, I meant to post this here and not in the previous thread:

    Due to the entirely tedious nature of some posters I have been working on an external script to hide posts made by certain people. Can Jon or Clark post a list of people who have been officially banned? I will post the script here so others can also use it once it is a little more complete.

  60. Still on the first page and it’s already gone kooky.

  61. “Unbelievable this person used to be a diplomat or something if i remember right?”

    I am sure I remember Craig saying he was a member of the Liberal Democrats at university, too.

    It amazes me that somebody with a conscience and a political activist history ever wanted to work for the diplomatic service, let alone actually got through the recruitment process.

  62. “Apparently all the mutilated victims and grieving relatives are actors and the explosions faked using CGI.”

    The actors were fake CGI as well. Get with the programme, buddy.

  63. Even if Craig did see the obvious significance of 2.5 seconds of symmetrical WTC7 freefall, it would presumably be more worthwhile for his activist career if he pretended he didn’t.

  64. http://investmentwatchblog.com/monday-bombshell-evidence-so-damning-it-will-determine-the-fate-of-our-nation/

    Is there not sufficient reason to validify our behaviour to realise a end to this madness.

  65. The Boston police acted to try and prevent innocent bystanders getting killed, either by the suspects or the police. If one thinks about the killing of Menezes by the Met and the mayhem a few guys with Kalashnikovs caused in Mumbai (not to mention all the lone gunmen in US schools, etc.), actually it seems quite sensible to have got people to work from home for one day. Boston is not a very large city, not like London or New York, and is not a world trade/financial/air travel, etc. centre/hub, so it’s possible to do that.

    These guys allegedly already (apart from the bombing itself) had killed a police officer and engaged in a prolonged firefight with police, so they seem to have been very well-armed and trained. Two men with lots of guns can hold off a civilian police force for many hours – even a heavily kitted-out police force – whose primary aim is to avoid civilian/including their own causalties in an urban environment and to make arrests (as they did, in the case of the younger brother).

    Anything is possible, of course. False flag ops occur. But it seems to me that too often the default position here seems to be to think of the most wide-ranging, complex dynamics possible, with everything working like clockwork and multiple conspirators and so on, and to go for that and then fit the info./rumours around it, instead of asking what might actually be the most likely scenario.

    Anyway, it’s bad news for anyone with a Muslim name in the USA esp. And here, in the UK, we have the toy car bombers. God sake, get a life!

    Well, the CIA/SIS supporting Islamist paramilitaries (again) in various places is a very bad idea. And as has been pointed out, Putin too has used Jihadists to destablise national politicians in Chechnya and justify wars, etc. So it’s all very murky. But none of that negates the fact that islamism is a toxic retro-virus of an ideology that Muslims must confront. Very difficult to see how, now, given that they have all the guns ‘n’ butter.

  66. @ Jives:

    “Ok, I’m assuming he went to Chechenya. (Technically part of Russia). Or maybe Dagestan.”

    “Wow Billy…could you be any more vague in your assumptions?

    Nah…thought not.

    Welcome,yet another troll”

    As it turns out, it was Dagestan.

  67. Billy Bob you are a knob. Craig knows what he is talking about. I suggest you piss off.

  68. “I am like 100% sure that this is a set-up,” she said. “My two sons are really innocent and I know that neither of them have never talked about whatever they’re saying about now.

    “My youngest one was raised from eight years in America and my oldest son he was really properly raised in my house. No one talked about terrorism.” [allegedly the mother of the two suspects]

    Yes, well that’s what most of the parents of these sorts of suspects say. Same reaction after London bombings – ringleader worked in a primary school working with kids with learning disabilities, very caring, how could he have done it, etc. And what about the doctor who did the Glasgow Airport attack? Ayman al Zawahiri, leader of you-know-what (and probably being protected by the Paksiatni military like OBL was), was a paediatrician. In fact, educated, intelligent people tend to be better able to rationalise their actions to themselves and everyone else. There is no difference in intelligence/education b/w those who join cults and those who do not.

    Nonetheless, as Chechens the family will know of the shenanigans (aka conspiracies) that have gone on within Russia wrt FSB (see also under the work of FSB officer, then SIS agent, Litvinenko, etc.), and Politkovskaya and anyone who knows anything about Chechnya knows it is murky and complex.

    Did the Russians ask the FBI to investigate them in 2011, as the Russian Times is reporting and as the FBI seems to have acknowleged? Was the family involved in some way with one or other of the Chechen movements? Did the father get political asylum in the USA? Had he been working for a Chechen intelligence outfit? Al these rumours have been floating around the web. Moscow Theatre siege, apartment bombings, etc. So, who knows? CIA also deeply involved. Even Pakistan’s ISI allegedly involved in Chechnya. Double-agents, triple agents…? But whoever they might have been working for, they were unlikely to have been innocent bystanders, not with all those weapons.

  69. @ Suhayl Saaadi:

    “Anything is possible, of course. False flag ops occur. But it seems to me that too often the default position here seems to be to think of the most wide-ranging, complex dynamics possible, with everything working like clockwork and multiple conspirators and so on, and to go for that and then fit the info./rumours around it, instead of asking what might actually be the most likely scenario.”

    Indeed, this is what I’ve been saying.

  70. It appears the captured boy is not being given legal representation even though he is legally a US citizen. Apparently seriously injured and unable to speak. Who would be surprised that he passes away from his injuries before being able to give his own side of the story?

    As for 911, the most unbelievable aspect about it was that a bunch of guys armed with “box cutters” were able to hijack four planes and fly them around the continental US domestic airspace for around forty-five minutes and not be intercepted by military jets as per the normal practice when contact has been lost between air-traffic control and the aircraft.

    As for buildings falling down at free-fall speed at WTC, penetration of several yards of reinforced concrete at Pentagon and the mysterious break-up of flight 93 over several miles which had supposedly crash landed, well make your own mind up on all that. It just all seems a bit odd to say the least….

  71. karel (a conspiracy a day keeps idiocy away)

    21 Apr, 2013 - 10:52 am

    Kempe

    thanks for the reference. But how dare you comparing my patent application for recyling airlines according to the most stringent rules of rubbish disposal with some foolish ideas of crushing bombers to enemy bunkers? It is the “recycling” stupid, Bill Clinton would tell you if he read your post.

    Calling me “Troofer” is inapropriate as I believe every lie thrown up by those in charge of this world and pass it on to the gullible suckers that surround me without a comment or distortion. “Troofer”, hm, is it an attemt to be funny in a strange kind of way or do you suffer from a speech impediment?? It may surprise you that I have painted the word “OBEY” in large letters on the wall of my lavatory and reading it aloud several times a day makes me immune to your feeble smears.

    Several commentators have problems understanding what the word “evidence” means. Well, no company will ever pay the benefactor of a life insurance policy taken by someone just one day before his disappearance. Demands of a weeping daughter of the disappeared like “show me the evidence that my father is not dead” would normally fall on deaf ears of the insurance broker who would most likely inform the fraud squad. Those who do not understand this analogy, understand nothing.

  72. Parky, if they’d wanted to kill him, they’d have done it by now. They’d have done it in the boat and said he’d resisted arrest or went at them with a knife/gun. Or they’d just have let him bleed to death.

    Do you have a link to something saying that he is being denied legal representation?

  73. Kempe

    You keep asking for evidence. There were some heavy dents in the pressure cookers. Is, that good enough for you? Why didn’t they just use Billy Bob cans, stuffed with TNT, Toxic Nonsense Trollery? All mimsy were the Borogroves. This week’s events are a challenge to all of us who understand the difference between reality and fantasy, financial difficulty and false-flag Disney.

    I take the pee, you take the pee, the concerted New World Order of UKUSISRUSCHINEUROSAUDIQATAR take the pee!

  74. Good to hear your thoughts Suhayl, that last tea you brewed was well timed, only the freshest tips.

    It sounds like the radicalisation of these two brothers is coming from more than one source, so it is plausible that they could have been persuaded to bat for one of both sides, first reactions.
    I still have to find out, how a rucksack looks like a normal full rucksack, but with a pressures cooker inside it……
    I believe that it would look like a Rucksack with a pressure cooker inside it, fat bulging and clearly showing the shape of it. I don’t buy the pressure cooker story, unless there is one that is square, flat, or even slightly triangular.

    As Parky mentioned just now, it is likely that they want to see the second brother dead as well, how come he is in this state when he was able to step out of the boat?

  75. Thanks, dreoilin. Great article by Greenwald, as always. So, the Loony Right, which sadly has real power in the USA, is advocating its usual nonsense for political gain during a Democrat Administration and the others are opposing it (but themselves are compromised in these regards). I agree with Greenwald’s position on this. As Greenwald suggests, there is no suggestion that to date he actually has been denied these rights.

    “As Marshall noted, the police have always had the power to question a suspect about imminent threats without Mirandizing him; indeed, they are free to question suspects about anything without first reading them their Miranda rights. But pre-Miranda statements were not admissible, could not be used to prosecute the person.” Greenwald.

    Greenwald makes the astute point that much absue of legal rights has already been committed by the last several US Administrations, including this one, vis a vis this Orwellian category of “enemy combatants”. Vigilance is essential.

  76. Thanks, Nevermind. Glad you enjoyed the cuppa! You’ve made good points, as always.

  77. If Dzokhar Tsarnaev does not make it to trial my guess is the CIA was involved. I’d be interested to know how many people commenting on this blog think 9/11 was a false-flag operation. I do for one. How many don’t? How many are sitting on the fence?

  78. John, 9/11 is a subject which took up a massive thread here wahile and which tends repeatedly to derail other threads. Just to be aware/wary of that.

  79. Interesting article

    Chechen Terrorists and the Neocons

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34685.htm

    All mimsy were the Borogroves, indeed, Guano.

    *********

    Nevermind,

    “how come he is in this state when he was able to step out of the boat?”

    I think he was already injured (but I haven’t read where, or how) and had lost a lot of blood.

  80. Craig

    You ask the question ‘qui bono’ of the Boston atrocity, and answer with one word ‘Putin’

    I agree it is a pertinent question. In fact, as any competent police detective will confirm, it is usually the single MOST pertinent question in any case of complex criminality. I therefore suggest that applying it to the events of 9/11 is an exercise worth pursuing with similar vigour – yet it remains a question that is strictly verboden in ANY mainsteam forum, even after 12 years of in-your-face obviousness.

    Nothing further needs saying here about the answer to the 9/11 ‘qui bono’ question, because it is so blindingly obvious to anyone who can face the deep and scary unpleasantness of its implications. And that of course is EXACTLY what the mass of Western populations (including yourself it seems) cannot bring themselves to do.

    Our deeply corrupt and machiavellian power brokers can rely on it – and they do.

  81. Already the knives are out to condemn the suspect before evidence or trial. It seems the younger boy was well adjusted and well liked by his associates, I think he has been set up, seems the news sources like to think otherwise.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312374/Shocked-friend-younger-Massachusetts-bombing-suspect-said-Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-acted-like-happened-day-tragic-marathon-massacre.html

  82. technicolour

    21 Apr, 2013 - 1:06 pm

    “Putin too has used Jihadists to destablise national politicians in Chechnya and justify wars” – exactly this. But more than that, his installed man, Kadyrov, is taking Chechnya to Saudi Arabia and beyond: justification of ‘honour killings’ here:

    http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?story_id=28409&action_id=2

    But: “islamism is a toxic retro-virus of an ideology that Muslims must confront” – I’m very unsure about this word ‘islamism’ and the increasingly widely used ‘islamicist’. It seems to me that the linking of the word Islam through both these usages to atrocities is a modern one, and one which bears little analysis – Kadyrov’s apparently ‘islamicist’ actions, as in the piece above have, for example, very little to do with Islam; and far more to do with (secular backed) terrorist control over a region?

  83. There’s nothing new about pressure cooker bombs. Instructions on how to make one were published in the infamous Anarchist’s Cookbook in the early 1970’s. The advantage of using a pressure cooker is that it contains the blast wave from the explosive for a split second and amplifies the effect of the bomb. They’ve been widely used in other parts of the world.

    Sizes vary but a 6 litre pressure cooker might be 9″ in diameter and 6″ deep so would easily fit in a large rucksack unnoticed. Empty weight would be 7-8lbs.

  84. Nice lock-down boys – job done; the shape of things to come perhaps?

    My thanks to buddy Scott Forbes for confirming my distrust and skepticism of the official account of the 2001 ‘attack’ on American soil.

  85. Kempe, good God, you’re a bleedin’ expert on pressure cookers!

    Technicolour, well, in widely dispersed geographical locales, the paramilitaries in question seem to ascribe their actions to a political philosophy which they describe as, ‘Islam’. Their political backers in, say, Saudi/UAE/Pakistan agree. This has been the case for 40+ years. So, whether one calls it, ‘Islamism’, ‘Islamicism’ (actually relatively quite an old term; maybe it’s coming back into use), ‘Islamic Fundamentalism’, ‘Jihadism’ or just ‘Far Right Religious Extremists’… the end result on the ground is the same. Yes, of course they have/have had ‘secular’ backers – Pakistan’s military, the CIA, SIS and at times, the FSB. They were used, it is alleged by Putin against the moderate nationalist regimes in Chechnya – Dudayev, Mashkhadov and so on.

    They have associated Islam with amoral violence and their biggest victims and enemies are the ordinary people of those countries/communities.

  86. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Apr, 2013 - 3:47 pm

    “But it seems to me that too often the default position here seems to be to think of the most wide-ranging, complex dynamics possible, with everything working like clockwork and multiple conspirators and so on, and to go for that and then fit the info./rumours around it, instead of asking what might actually be the most likely scenario.”

    Hi Suhayl; I concur. Nothing works with precision in this sphere of humanity. But the dearth of information, the lack of transparency that has been seen in the past, and the curious misbehaving of the authorities, make it necessary for us to piece the jigsaw in the dark. Fortunately, we have previous behaviors to use as a reference in outlining the general picture; then we can pretend to extrapolate from that information.

    Yes the Boston Police were acting with public safety in mind. Coincidentally, they also saw just how compliant the public was when they shut down the Watertown Community to conduct their manhunt. People are more concerned with survival, than their civil liberties, in such a case. Add to that that our police have been increasingly more militarized, resembling Seal Team Six rather than the jolly neighborhood cop stealing an apple.

  87. An interesting question

    “Today, courtesy of NY Daily News, we get a first glimpse into ground zero: inside the suspect’s home, an apartment located on the third floor at 410 Norfolk St. in Cambridge. From the source: “photos snapped by the Daily News show the unit in a Cambridge, Mass., building in disarray with clothes piled everywhere and a half-eaten meal left on the table.” In other words, typical bachelor squalor, but that’s about it. Most notably: not a trace of any explosive, incendiary or other bomb-preparing equipment or residue, no evidence of terrorist activity, and no weapons. So where did the two put together the numerous bombs they are said to have prepared?”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-21/inside-ground-zero-photos-suspects-apartment

  88. “Coincidentally, they also saw just how compliant the public was when they shut down the Watertown Community to conduct their manhunt. ”

    Too right! if the Boston cops are as trigger happy as our lot then off the streets is the safest place to be.

  89. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Apr, 2013 - 4:48 pm

    He was radicalized in…less than a year?
    At the Cambridge mosque near where the bombing suspects lived, two worshipers who showed up for Saturday’s prayer service recalled seeing both men.
    Tamerlan Tsarnaev was thrown out of the mosque — the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center — about three months ago, after he stood up and shouted at the imam during a Friday prayer service, they said. The imam had held up slain civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. as an example of a man to emulate, recalled one worshiper who would give his name only as Muhammad.

    Enraged, Tamerlan stood up and began shouting, Muhammad said.
    “You cannot mention this guy because he’s not a Muslim!” Muhammad recalled Tamerlan shouting, shocking others in attendance.
    “He’s crazy to me,” Muhammad said. “He had an anger inside.… I can’t explain what was in his mind.”
    http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..full.story

  90. 9/11 evidence can be somewhat difficult, but there are two curious things: 1) the extent to which questioning is so taboo and 2) Tower 7.

    Tower 7 is mind boggling.

  91. Interesting post Ben @4:48pm – although the link has now expired. Of course British intelligence services had neither HCT HUMINT centric or any AO reliable informant intelligence sharing traffic on these two Boston brothers; another ATF bum steer!

    Kenneth E. Melson, and Dennis Burke both oversaw the ATF Fast and Furious program, in which ATF agents purposely allowed weapons to be illegally purchased in the hope of catching Mexican drug cartel leaders. Just screw the Border Patrol Academy.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57559582/brian-terry-family-sues-atf-officials-in-fast-and-furious/

    Our SIS case officers are in the loop for the supply of sophisticated anti-aircraft weapons to terrorists engaged against government forces in Syria,together with a chemical weapons sting operation, both illegal ATF operations. It sucks and very few Americans care, one way or another.

    I care. With covert help these ‘black bag’ operations and ATF, DOJ, DEA, FBI, ICE, and DHS involvement will be laid bare, visible to public scrutiny and investigations demanded.

  92. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Apr, 2013 - 7:25 pm

    Yes, Mark.

    I blame Putin. Hopefully this link works.http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvdagestan.info%2F

    Statement in connection with the events in Boston (USA)

    “After the events in Boston (USA) in the press reported that one of the brothers Tsarnaevyh in 2012 for 6 months in Dagestan. On this basis the speculative assumption that he may have been associated with the Mujahideen of the Caucasus Emirate, in particular, the Mujahideen of Dagestan.

    Vilayat Dagestan command in this regard indicates that the Caucasian Mujahideen are not fighting with the United States of America. We are at war with Russia, which is not only responsible for the occupation of the Caucasus, but also for the heinous crimes against Muslims.

    Also, remember that even in respect of an enemy state Russia, which is fighting the Caucasus Emirate Emir valid order Doku Umarov, which prohibits strikes on civilian targets.

    In this regard, the command of the Mujahideen Vilayat Dagestan calls primarily American media to stop speculating and promote Russian propaganda.

    If the U.S. government is really interested in establishing the true organizers of explosions in Boston, and are not complicit in Russian play, then they should focus on involvement in the events occurring Russian special services.’

  93. [Jon/Mod: abusive, deleted]

  94. Being questioned by the feebs, on the basis of being slightly ‘foreign’ looking, on account of their assigned religious label or their place of birth -alone might have sparked their radicalisation. Most people are indifferent to the forces of the law at its most feral, until they have any contact with them, in the conduct of their ordinary quite legitimate activities, or defending themselves, safeguarding their homes or property, as potential and actual victims of, not perpetrators of crime, often by police inaction as with wrongful presumption of guilt or undue credence given malicious accusations of wrong-doing, selectivity, not to mention casual police violence in custody situations, often exceeding by far the original alleged ‘crime’. The outcome for most people is the collapse of their former regard both for the institution and the individuals, from which there is no going back to that former happy indifference and trust.

    Radicalisation is the only alternative to a future of powerlessness and unending fear.

  95. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Apr, 2013 - 10:08 pm

    Cryptonym; The narrative unfolding is that the elder brother may have been a control-freak who bullied his younger sibling.
    Family and friends emerging say he was constantly angry. He was arrested for domestic violence against his gf. That he was radicalized seems to auger well for his state of mind. Don’t know what, specifically, he had a bun about, but anger has many fathers. Just sayin’.

  96. I’m no fan of Alex Jones, but this is interesting:

    http://www.infowars.com/breaking-police-confirm-infowars-photos-of-boston-suspects/

    I wonder if the mainstream media will go near this? Check out The Craft for yourself. A scary bunch. Their founder was shot dead in February by an Afghan veteran.

  97. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Apr, 2013 - 10:34 pm

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14830

    “Some men just want to watch the world burn” DARK KNIGHT (2008)

  98. ‘Reuters: West Fertilizer plant didn’t disclose ammonium nitrate stores’

    “Reuters reports this morning that West Fertilizer stored more than a thousand times more than the reporting level of ammonium nitrate, a key ingredient in both fertilizer and certain types of bombs, without disclosing it as required to the Department of Homeland Security”

    http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2013/04/20/reuters-west-fertilizer-plant-didnt-disclose-ammonium-nitrate-stores/

    I have also read – but can’t find the source – that water shouldn’t be used on a fire at such a facility because of the risk of explosion.
    And water was used, before the massive explosion happened.

    After I had read the initial report, Channel 4 showed the safety procedure card that ‘first responders’ are supposed to refer to, with fires at chemical plants. And I saw the warning about not using water with fires where certain substances are involved. I can’t swear that ammonium nitrate was listed but I thought it was.

  99. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Apr, 2013 - 11:33 pm

    Dreoilin; The plant hasn’t been inspected by OSHA since 1985. Our betters, know better about fiscal responsibility.

  100. It’s very sad, Ben. It seems as if all those deaths (and destruction) could have been prevented.

  101. Suhayl,

    Good to have ye back bro…:.)

    I’ve missed your wisdom.

  102. False flag 101

  103. I add to this thread – but posted it above before:-

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/boston-suspect-arrested-stripped-naked-so-when-was-he-shot-and-killed/5332316

    So without conjecture.

    A. There are two(2) brothers – and these have been the focal point of attention as the mass media has been reminding us ever since the Boston bombing.
    B. We remove one brother from the equation (i.e. since he is arrested – in custody – no longer a threat). So – we now go to:-

    C. That leaves one (1) brother we know to have been shot ( under what circumstances we have yet to ascertain – but he is shot and now in critical condition). So, we can both reason that what we saw on the video footage was footage of the one that was killed – not the one shot and left in critical condition.

    Surely, if a man is already in custody and alive – then when was he shot?

    Simple question.

  104. Thanks, Jives.

  105. Re. Waco: Ammonium nitrate is extremely soluble, so water can be used to control a fire. But not a water jet…
    “Do not use water jet. Use flooding quantities of water.”
    http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927336

    It’s a little bit less predictable than the MSDS suggests, though. Personally, I wouldn’t store tons of it in a bulk container (in a hot climate) anywhere near habitation. But that’s the American Way, I guess.

    Re. Boston: must admit I think that Putin is at least as likely as a jihadi group to be complicit in this. And then again, the lads could simply have become alienated on there own:
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/04/russian-politics-0

    Pace Craig, I don’t think any purpose is served by speculating on the basis of nil, or contradictory evidence. However, I can see that a little resentment might be engendered by foreigners blowing up people who were simply minding their own business….

    http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2013/04/11/secret-us-documents-show-brennans-no-civilian-drone-deaths-claim-was-false/

  106. “just who was ultimately pulling the strings and why may be an extremely complex question – and one to which young Dzokhar Tsarnaev is most unlikely to know the real answer.” — Craig

    Sky News cut in with “breaking news” from Boston yesterday. They said that the hospital had issued a statement that Dzokhar Tsarnaev was not fit to be questioned.

    Sky News also said that the Mayor had announced that he may *never* be fit for questioning.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/21/boston-marathon-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-injuries

    I’m wondering exactly how these brothers were treated by ‘law enforcement officers’ after they were apprehended.

    The older brother was supposed to have been killed in the gunfight the brothers had with police officers (before the younger brother drove an SUV straight at the police cordon and got away – which led to the lockdown and manhunt) but as Courtenay points out, there is also footage of a naked guy in handcuffs being put into a car – and this guy was also said to be the older brother.

    There is also a picture (grisly) on the internet of the older brother that someone took post post-mortem – it’s here

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/tamerlan-tsarnaev-post-mortem-photo-478612

    The egg-shaped thing is obscuring a massive gash in his side, and he looks ( to me) badly beaten around the face and neck.

    As for the 19 year old Dzokhar who was hiding in the boat, the owner of the boat has said it now resembles swiss cheese. It seems that they riddled it with bullets either before or after they lifted the tarpaulin with a robotic arm. Now it appears that he was shot in the throat.

  107. “Ammonium nitrate is extremely soluble, so water can be used to control a fire. But not a water jet…”

    Thanks, Komodo

  108. http://rt.com/op-edge/boston-suspect-russia-chechnya-154/

    This interview with Sibel Edmonds is illuminating. Although Craig knows plenty about US intelligence links with Chechen terrorism, he chooses to answer the “Cui Bono?” question with “Putin”, while Edmonds, a highly respected American whistleblower, delves deeper.

    “We all have to really look at the timing of this, because again the US media is portraying this incident by itself. It’s not putting it in the context of things that have been happening in the past – let’s say one year so – or recent stuff – we had this case of NGOs being shut down by the Russian government, which was a very smart move, because we know that the majority of these NGOs have CIA agendas, as they’re operated and managed by CIA people. And this is one way of infiltrating Russia by the US government, the CIA. And on the other hand, from this side, we had the 12 individuals from Russia, and what the US has done.

    So, if you start putting these in context and also add the fact that RUSSIA HAS BEEN THE BIGGEST OBSTACLE FOR THE UNITED STATES TO GET IN AND DIRECTLY ATTACK SYRIA – that’s when you start to see the bigger picture and that’s what the people should be paying attention to. And as far as the perception, up until recently you had individuals like Bolton, Armitage… in a group called The Friends of Chechnya, and they have been around for a while. Again, the false information that is being put forth by US media is that since the fall of the Soviet Union the United States has refrained from intervening in the Russia-Chechnya situation. And that is purely false. Since mid-1990’s, the US directly, or through Turkey has been arming, training, managing, orchestrating not only Chechens but also other factions in the region – and we are looking at Central Asia and the Caucasus. And of course the Russian government is fully aware of this.”

    “Alternative media has been waiting and reporting on this for years – the US operations in the region against Russia. And we are kind of puzzled in terms of the silence from the Russian government, because the FSB at any given moment can put out a lot of information that would expose the fact that WE ACTUALLY ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF CREATING TERRORISTS AND BRINGING ABOUT TERRORISM IN THE REGION, AS WE HAVE DONE FOR THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES IN THE MIDDLE EAST, but especially since the fall of the Soviet Union – in Central Asia and the Caucasus. And again, there are tons of facts backing this up and there is much more in the hands of the Russian government, and I think this is a pretty good opportunity for some of this information to come out and enlighten the American public here in the United States.”

    I’m sorry to have to say this, Craig, but I used to have high hopes that you would speak as clearly as Sibel does here.

    Your “which is not to say that the West was involved in or encouraged the urban terrorist wing of the Chechen nationalist movement in modern times” is disingenuous. Foreign Office training, no doubt.

  109. …Bolton, Armitage…Friends of Chechnya, and another terrorist state it seems I am not at liberty to mention? Where have I seen those names before? Oh, yes. Check the signatories of this. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

    Quite like old times.

  110. Samenleving

    Craig is like this because of his foreign Office filtered sources, not his own instincts or training. If he finds corroborated evidence of wrong-doing he is the first to go nuclear with his information.

    Russia does not need covert messages from acts of terror in my opinion. She is in the game called the Zionist New World Order, on the same side, and desperate to be allowed to leave its place as goalie for capitalism and play as striker/forward.

    The US, UK and world populations have to be firmly instructed by the powers that be who are flexing their muscles in the Arab Spring, that they/we are less than spectators, less than blades of plastic grass on the playing field, which at least blow independently in the wind.

    We can be attacked by USUKISRUSSCHINEUROSAUDIQATAR terrorism by their mercenary zombies even we are celebrating a fitness-fest like running a marathon. The message is for us: prepare to be utterly and completely enslaved, in your houses, in your leisure activities, in your beds and even in your dreams by combined fascism of Capitalist/communist, Zio-Islamo-fascism.

    It reminds me of a leaflet that came through my door this morning from a quack Sufi which joined the rest of his ads as a paper dart: The Shake can rid you of all magic, and even expose the person who is doing the magic, in front of your very eyes.

    We have to ignore this open defiance of our intelligence. The terror was executed by agents of the ZNWO. They made us the people conspirators by doing it openly under our very nose.

  111. WhatWindsMeUp

    22 Apr, 2013 - 5:16 pm

    In 1830′s, Palmerston; In 1940`s Gerhard von Mende`s “Fifth Columnists” project prodused even more disastrous consequences.

  112. The claim that the Moscow apartment bombings were a false flag has always been suspicious. Someone finds bags labelled sugar in a place they expect to find ammunition, then find out that it is explosive after they make tea with it? That story sounds completely made up because no human would ever go that far without a smell/eye/taste test.

    Anyway, the Boston bombings won’t benefit Putin in any way. The media is already carefully trying to separate the two men from Chechnya’s extremists, insisting that they would only attack Russians and that Americans should not worry. On Washington Post’s website they posted a song from a folk singing “freedom fighter” in their most romanticized way, apparently unaware that the lyrics also mentioned reclaiming Jerusalem and destroying Israel.

  113. PIT-TROLLS!

    Not your hasbara Habba volunteers, but Political Islamist Terrorist Trolls, not happy with freedom of speech, opinion and religious belief being exercised on CM’s blog.

    Why is it that, when William Hague goes on air to sweep the floor with crocodile tears about Assad killing 100 civilians, my instant reaction to this professionally-ascendant addicted liar, who lied all the way through the ZNWO Libya campaign, is to believe the opposite, that he is shilling for his Al-Qaida pets who love to bring the people who are under their USUKIS-licensed power under full control by slaughtering them if they don’t do what they’re told?

    100s die everyday in Syria, so why the Cheshire tiger be mentioning this incident if not to pour black smoke over it with his normal full-front lies? If they are capable of recruiting young Muslims and setting them up with the wherewithall to make explosions and defend themselves at the Boston marathon, are they not capable of posting a Bruce Forsyth charm offensive to the BBC to assist his mercenary over-zealous proteges?

  114. Oldie but goody. How the neocons responded to the Chechen war –

    …in the US, the leading group which pleads the Chechen cause is the American Committee for Peace in Chechnya (ACPC). The list of the self-styled “distinguished Americans” who are its members is a rollcall of the most prominent neoconservatives who so enthusastically support the “war on terror”.

    They include Richard Perle, the notorious Pentagon adviser; Elliott Abrams of Iran-Contra fame; Kenneth Adelman, the former US ambassador to the UN who egged on the invasion of Iraq by predicting it would be “a cakewalk”; Midge Decter, biographer of Donald Rumsfeld and a director of the rightwing Heritage Foundation; Frank Gaffney of the militarist Centre for Security Policy; Bruce Jackson, former US military intelligence officer and one-time vice-president of Lockheed Martin, now president of the US Committee on Nato; Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute, a former admirer of Italian fascism and now a leading proponent of regime change in Iran; and R James Woolsey, the former CIA director who is one of the leading cheerleaders behind George Bush’s plans to re-model the Muslim world along pro-US lines. (2004)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/08/usa.russia

  115. Mohammed Naseer

    23 Apr, 2013 - 5:49 pm

    Despite ongoing attempts, the complete and utter failure so far of US and it’s agents to orchestrate on the ground in Syria, a solution that maintains existing institutions and security apparatus. As a result of this ongoing failure the US has joined forces together with Russia to prevent the rise of an independent state from emerging in the Sham region. With this context in mind, the two countries security agencies have begun a new level of cooperation as part of a deal that has been struck to undermine future challenges.

  116. “It’s hard not to suspect that the only thing distinguishing the Boston attack from Tucson, Aurora, Sandy Hook and Columbine (to say nothing of the US “shock and awe” attack on Baghdad and the mass killings in Fallujah) is that the accused Boston attackers are Muslim and the other perpetrators are not.”

    Glenn Greenwald (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/22/boston-marathon-terrorism-aurora-sandy-hook ) is right.

    Craig – you wrote “It is perfectly possible that this is not relevant at all, and the Tsarnaev brothers became radicalised in the United States by real, and non-Chechen related, terrorists, or simply auto-radicalised.”

    Which seems to indicate that you share the same cast of mind as US officialdom and the corporate media.

    In your desire to denigrate Putin and promote sympathy for the moderate anti-Russian nationalism of the peoples of the Central Asian states, you are underplaying the long-term intrigues of Western intelligence agencies with the ISLAM practised there.

    Tell us what you know about Fethullah Gulen and his $25 billion, CIA-supported, Islamic network, whose teachers of English hold US diplomatic passports.

    Tell us what you know about the deep-state Turkish relationship with NATO, and the criminals and right-wing organisations that are integral to it.

    If the White House, FBI, and the mainstream media are shouting “Checheniya and Islamist terrorism”, then you could help us by focusing our attention on the State Dept/CIA/NATO involvement in Central Asia – an involvement which clearly has far more to do with the Tsarnaev brothers (who lived in the USA, and whose religion in their country of birth is being monitored and manipulated through CIA-proxy Gulen) than it does with Russia’s FSB or Putin.

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