Cui Bono? Putin. The alleged actions of the Tsarnaev brothers are a massive setback to the cause of Chechen nationalism. The Russian government have been trying for a decade to conflate the repression of Chechen nationalism with the western construct of “the global war on terror”, with very limited diplomatic success. Now expect to hear continually about “Al Qaeda in the Southern Caucasus” in the next few years. Events in Boston have been a massive diplomatic coup for Putin.
In the late 1830’s, Palmerston launched a (disastrous) secret service operation to ship weapons to anti-Russian rebels in modern Chechnya and Dagestan. This was contributory to the tensions that caused the First Anglo-Afghan War, and will feature in my forthcoming biography of Alexander Burnes. For almost two hundred years now there has been covert Western encouragement of anti-Russian movements in the Caucasus – which is not to say that the West was involved in or encouraged the urban terrorist wing of the Chechen nationalist movement in modern times. But links between Chechen nationalists and the US government have been maintained, and there is no support whatsoever among any significant Chechen nationalist leadership for the Boston bombings.
I cannot recommend too highly “Darkness at Dawn” by David Satter, a book which is crucial to an understanding of a key part of the modern world. Satter sets out an extremely strong case, from eyewitness interviews at the time, that The “Chechen” apartment bombings which paid such a crucial part in building the cult of Putin, were false flag – something which the British Embassy in Moscow also strongly inclined to believe. There is a history of false Chechen bombings being very helpful to Putin. These bombings are very helpful to Putin.
It is perfectly possible that this is not relevant at all, and the Tsarnaev brothers became radicalised in the United States by real, and non-Chechen related, terrorists, or simply auto-radicalised. But presuming the Tsarnaevs really did plant these bombs, just who was ultimately pulling the strings and why may be an extremely complex question – and one to which young Dzokhar Tsarnaev is most unlikely to know the real answer.
Hmm. No mention of Turkey.
The human rights picture in many countries remained deeply troubling last year, the State Department said Friday, with the Middle East facing “the harsh realities of incomplete and contested transitions,” Russia and Iran cracking down on activists, and many governments harshly suppressing both new and traditional media.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/politics/state-dept-sees-little-progress-on-global-human-rights.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0
Could you spell out clearly what I supposed to be learning from this conspiracy site rather than me having to guess what you are trying to suggest?
By the way, Cui bono is facile reasoning.
Numerous people happen to benefit from numerous disasters.
It’s idiotic to think they all therefore engineered them.
a) “It is perfectly possible that this is not relevant at all, and the Tsarnaev brothers became radicalised in the United States by real, and non-Chechen related, terrorists, or simply auto-radicalised”
b) Nice to see that ‘auto-slanging’ is once again the default mechanism here
c) Given the atrocities perpetrated on Chechnya, it’s good to see a post which remembers and expands on them.
@ Technicolour, who writes (correctly) :
“b) Nice to see that ‘auto-slanging’ is once again the default mechanism here”
******
Yes, and what’s more they’re managing it without any help from me! Which shows, I think, that some people are just – by their nature – incapable of serious and civilised discussion when challenged. Nothing to do with Habbabkuk, therefore.
So the Russians do ‘False Flag’ terrorism, but we don’t eh Craig. Perish the very thought!
Did it ever occur to you that the reason Putin is so supportive of the Western official 9/11 narrative might have something to do with a sort of quid pro quo over those appartment bombings? – except of course, you still maintain the official version the 9/11 attacks to be accurate don’t you?
There is good reason Putin is no Angel. It is because, were he anything but a cunning hard-nosed ruthless bastard, he would soon go the way of Gorbachov and Yeltsin. What’s left of Russian independence from West hegemony would then be devoured by the far more vicious, cunning and ruthless bastards that call the shots in the West – and in very short order indeed.
And, since the FBI have self-confessedly been the originators of most of the US home-grown so-called ‘terrorist plots’ of the past 5 years, as pointed out by your good self on several occasions as I recall, is there any reason to suppose that something similar is not going down in Boston right now? – with or without Russian connivance?
Angry young men of limited intelligence and with serious grievances are tailer-made potential Patsies – as all good SIS practitioners well know. Both the US and UK have vast ready made supplies of them.
“The simple explanation is some Muslims set some bombs off in America.”
Occam would have told you that this is not an explanation, merely a quick summary of news reports.
Wikispooks,
I absolutely agree with,
‘There is good reason Putin is no Angel. It is because, were he anything but a cunning hard-nosed ruthless bastard, he would soon go the way of Gorbachov and Yeltsin. What’s left of Russian independence from West hegemony would then be devoured by the far more vicious, cunning and ruthless bastards that call the shots in the West – and in very short order indeed.’
Putin just like Iran is waging a defensive war to maintain the independence and resources of their countries.
Wikispooks,
I don’t believe I have ever said we don’t do false flag bomb attacks. I have said I don’t think 9/11 was one.
“Conspiracy,” used twice in your new friend Billy Bob’s first sentence. They’re trained to think the word is devastating.
No one’s talking about conspiracy, we’re talking about crime by US government officials: incitement and entrapment to mass murder, supply of explosives and illegal biological weapons, enforced disappearance, attacks on the domestic civilian population; systematic policy constituting universal-jurisdiction crimes against humanity with no statute of limitations. Ask Abraham Bolden. Ask the jury in King Family v. Jowers. Ask Carol Howe. Ask Emad Salem. Ask Richard Blee and Spike Bowman. Put them under oath. In any independent court the accumulated evidence will convict key personnel in the US civilian-military command structure going back to 1962.
Nobody believes the US government any more, much less its disembodied patriotic voices like billy bob. The USG is discredited. It has forfeited its sovereignty for crime and it will stop at nothing to maintain its impunity. The loonies are the people who deny it.
“On June 12, 2012, the House Foreign Affairs Committee passed what was called in part the “Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012” and on December 14, 2012, it was signed by President Obama. It had nothing to do with the rule of law as it pertained to the prisoners indefinitely detained in Guantanamo, the torturing of prisoners in U.S. custody, nor did it have anything to do with the fact that Mr. Magnitsky was held in prison for 8 days less than one year without being brought to trial. Its stated purpose was simply to punish 18 Russian officials the Congress thought were responsible for Mr. Magnitsky’s treatment. It prohibited them from entering the United States and froze their banking assets within the United States.
In response to the Magnitsky act, Russia took a number of steps, the most recent of which was to ban 18 Americans from entering Russia. Those banned by the Russians include Americans the Russians believe were involved in human rights violations and others who have violated the “human rights and freedoms of Russian citizens abroad” by prosecuting those citizens. The Russians are supported in their belief that the United States was involved in human rights violations by the Constitution Project Study% that was released on April 16, 2013.”
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/04/20-0
@ All,
If any rational person considers this operation, then further considers the official releases then withdrawals and reversals on the Boston bombings – one is left with a question such as this:-
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/wars/northwoods.pdf
The above gets really interesting at page 8.
If government is willing, as revealed in this official document, to deceive and fabricate to launch “false flag” operations – what won’t a government now in deep despair in very trying economic times not be motivated to try or actually do?
CB
Wikispooks, you have no evidence of 911 being an “inside job” and such silly claims are not welcome here. 19 Arab Muslims committed 911, using airplanes as cruise missiles. Plain and simple.
To refer to and build on Craig Murray’s post:-
The evidence of what was said when the Boston bombings happened from:-
a) The official media and main stream releases; versus
b) The reversals as the other version of events were posted on youtube – becomes quite telling.
One might apply Occam’s razor in considering the facts.
“False flag” operations having taken place over and over again ( inclusive of the Bay of Tong King incident – when President Johnson forgot the international date line, then announced the alleged North Vietnamese bombing of a ship – as the excuse for the US entering the Vietnam war – or – the more recent and notorious WMD lies relative to Saddam Hussein, are of great moment) and these remain instructive and relevant to what states are capable of doing.
If one is in need of a historical reference point, then when Lord Palmerston commenced a secret service operation in the 1830s, trying to ship arms to anti-Russian rebels in modern Chechnya and Dagestan, this contributed to the tensions and causes of the original Anglo-Afghan war ( as Murray points out).
The “Chechen” apartment bombings were, in my opinion, a Russian “false flag” operation. It did assist Putin tremendously.
If the Tsarnaev brothers did anything relative to these bombings:-
Were they willfully radicalised in the United States to serve an ulterior purpose?
Who ultimately pulls strings in these types of operations?
There are questions to be asked and answers that should be forthcoming.
The naïve amongst us – sadly – automatically and unthinkingly accept the official version of events. But – just who was ultimately pulling the strings and why – may be extremely complex questions – but questions nevertheless worth asking and analysing.
” More than 11,000 people in the U.S. were murdered with guns in 2011 ”
30 people murdered a day in U.S. by shooting and
one day last week 3 people were murdered by bombs. Why do we hold our breath to hear what their government has to say about that?
They seem to go out of their way to be unbelievable. If there are no disturbing anomalies about this narrative we would have to assume it is reliable? The only thing you can be sure of is the ever present deployment of distraction and deceit.
I looked at the fbi pics, on their website, and am at a loss as to where the ‘pressure cookers’ were. Neither backpack seemed particularly heavy, neither seemed to potentially hold even a mini version of a pressure cooker. Are we being misdirected?
There’s something odd about this story. Why would Chechens have any interest in killing Americans at all? America has never occupied Chechen territory.
Craig,
The facts of 9/11 can lead to only one conclusion, it was an inside job. If you think Putin was capable of an inside job, how much more do you think the US needed one to take over the resources of Iraq and the opium crop and strategic position of Afghanistan?
Abe: As much as it chafes, we have to wait. There is not the firstfuck thing we know, except that they’re angel terrorists one of whom the FBI interrogated ostensibly @ Russian security request; one was a naturalized (the younger) citizen who actually came to US before his older brother. The elder is deceased, the younger in the hospital with serious injuries. The US, ostensibly seeks to interrogate before a lawyer can be called. It’s all perfectly legal, of course.
Karel (a conspiracy a day keeps idiocy away)
those who know my modesty might be surprised that after some deliberation I have decided to embelish my name, like so many others before me (eg. the magnificent halibabacus – la vita in culo è bella), to flow with the trend. Laggards like Jon Pelfrey might be surprised to learn that it was more than 15 years ago when I filed a US patent application proposing to use airplanes as cruise missiles since this seemed to me to be a simple solution for recycling the old crap that would otherwise be left to rot in the Mojave desert. I have already initiated several patent infringement proceedings against the presumed pilots involved in 9/11. Unfortunately they are still in hiding and cannot be brought to justice. Can anyone help?
Billy Bob,
“Ok, I’m assuming he went to Chechenya. (Technically part of Russia). Or maybe Dagestan.”
Wow Billy…could you be any more vague in your assumptions?
Nah…thought not.
Welcome,yet another troll.
Jon Pelfrey
“Wikispooks, you have no evidence of 911 being an “inside job” and such silly claims are not welcome here. 19 Arab Muslims committed 911, using airplanes as cruise missiles. Plain and simple.”
Oh do run along now Jon.This is the second night in a row you’ve made an arse of yourelf…
Are you being paid to spout the certainty of yer guff?
Oooft!
And the really naive people think the fertiliser explosion in Waco(on the 20th anniversary of the Waco siege) was just a natural explosion and had nowt to do with the Patriots Day bomb at the Boston marathon…noooo…no connection at all….move along sheeple…nothing to see here…
Riiiiight….
“Laggards like Jon Pelfrey might be surprised to learn that it was more than 15 years ago when I filed a US patent application proposing to use airplanes as cruise missiles since this seemed to me to be a simple solution for recycling the old crap that would otherwise be left to rot in the Mojave desert. ”
I fear your application would’ve been rejected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Aphrodite
So funny when a “Troofer” accuses someone else of being an arse but then it’s so much easier to just throw insults around than actually produce some evidence.
Carl Jung, argued that our conscious and unconscious beliefs exist in opposition to each other. The more vociferously someone defends a belief, Jung held, the more we can be sure that he is defending it primarily against his own internal doubts, which will someday surge into consciousness and force a polar shift in perspective.
Sartre wrote, to be self-deceived, “I have to know this truth very precisely in order to hide it from myself the more carefully.” To be in denial, then – to not know things that, given the available evidence, we should know – we must be both the deceiver and the deceived.
The law enforcement bodies were spectacularly, ah, tooled up weren’t they? Seemed a bit of over-kill for two patsies, if you ask me. And the continual ‘leaking’ that goes on is becoming absurd. These newspapers will print any old bullshit won’t they, if it comes from an authority figure.
OT. On 9/11, there is arguably plenty of ‘evidence’ of it being an inside job. However, this evidence just isn’t accepted by non-Truthers. It’s an interesting case actually. Cards on the table, I don’t believe 9/11 was an inside job either. However, it’s interesting that the ‘Truthers’ actually DO think they have evidence – but this evidence is debated, or simply not accepted, by non-Truthers. So I’ve read long arguments about engineering, and explosions, a missing building – at one point somebody even ventured into the realms of Plank’s Constant! But the 9/11 truthers seem to be arguing that they are citing the evidence, that the facts are actually in the public sphere, but people are, for whatever reason, refusing to see. I say again, I’m sceptical, but far less sceptical than I was ten years ago, that’s for sure.
Here’s a thought for the day. Imagine Assange got his crafty hands on some 9/11 style leaks.
Actually, scratch that. They’d just storm the embassy and shoot him in the head. I’m quite sure they’ve considered this previously.
From the Daily Mail:
“One theory is that Tamerlan may have been inspired by the man known as Russia’s Bin Laden – Doku Umarov.”
May I just swiftly doff my cap at Craig Murray. Well known front for the security services – The Daily Mail – has just, in one short sentence, linked the Boston attack, Chechen ‘terrorists’ and Bin Laden\Al Qaeda. Good work. And I think Craig just called it spot on.
I begin to wonder if I should just filter all corporate media sites. The constant barrage of bullshit becomes sorta wearing.
Brendan; police all over tend to go for overkill. You might remember the Met needed 56 armed officers with 100 guns to bring down one drugged up solicitor with a 12 bore a couple of years ago.
Julian Assange has gone on record stating that 9/11 was not an inside job and annoyance that it distracts attention away from real conspiracies. Wikileaks did publish 570,000 pager messages sent on 9/11 which was one of the most unfathomable things they’ve done. The messages don’t add anything to our knowledge of what happened that day and would seem to be of interest only to voyeurs and “Truthers” looking for a smoking gun which isn’t there.
http://911.wikileaks.org/
Problem with most of the so-called evidence the truth movement relies on is that either it isn’t evidence at all or is just plain wrong. Another problem is that there is never just a single conspiracy theory but a whole box full ranging from the simple They Let It Happen through to the totally bizarre. Each one of course coming with it’s own “incontrovertible evidence”. The latest idea about 9/11 is that it was totally faked, no planes, all the footage you see is CGI, and nobody died! The buildings were empty. This incidentally is what is being put forward as an explanation for the Boston bombing and the Sandy Hook shootings. Apparently all the mutilated victims and grieving relatives are actors and the explosions faked using CGI.
It’s little wonder really that the overwhelming majority treat the Truth movement with ridicule.
@Kempe 21 Apr, 2013 – 3:08 am
Totally fallacious argument. You don’t fool anybody, buddy!
Oops, sorry for the repost, I meant to post this here and not in the previous thread:
Due to the entirely tedious nature of some posters I have been working on an external script to hide posts made by certain people. Can Jon or Clark post a list of people who have been officially banned? I will post the script here so others can also use it once it is a little more complete.