Only One Choice and Only for Scotland

by craig on June 5, 2013 10:28 am in Uncategorized

Would you like to be shot with a red gun or blue gun, sir? That is the limit of the choice being offered the UK electorate as New Labour announces it will keep the Coalition public spending plans and the Coalition benefit cuts. Given it will also throw away £100 billion on Trident, and New Labour initiated the rampant privatisation of the Health Service, PFI, Tuition Fees etc., my point could not have been more eloquently proven that the UK electorate is no longer offered any meaningful choice by the neo-con parties.

It also of course demolishes completely the Gordon Brown argument that Scots need to stay in the Union to put New Labour in to power. Who carries out Tory policies is not the question; and why a nation should surrender its freedom just to make sure Ed Balls has a ministerial car and salary while he implements Tory policies, is not a question which to me has an obvious answer.

The only meaningful political choice any part of the UK population will have in the foreseeable future is the Scottish Independence Referendum. If Scots do not take their chance, all they have ahead is economic decline and the collapse of public services. The choice could not be more stark.

Tweet this post

517 Comments

  1. Flaming June

    7 Jun, 2013 - 5:29 pm

    This might make the silly old fool who visits this blog from time to time laugh.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/jun/04/queen

  2. Flaming June

    7 Jun, 2013 - 5:31 pm

    BBC News 9 minutes ago
    Vaz: GCHQ US spy claims ‘chilling’
    .

    7 June 2013 Claims Britain’s electronic listening post GCHQ has been gathering data through a secret US spy programme are “chilling,” says a senior Labour MP. Keith Vaz, chairman of the home affairs committee, said he would be… Full Article at BBC News

  3. Flaming June

    7 Jun, 2013 - 5:37 pm

    Assume that this has been going on with Agent Cameron’s full knowledge and consent for the last three years.

    UK gathering secret intelligence via covert NSA operation

    Exclusive: UK security agency GCHQ gaining information from world’s biggest internet firms through US-run Prism programme

    Nick Hopkins

    guardian.co.uk, Friday 7 June 2013 14.27 BST

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/07/uk-gathering-secret-intelligence-nsa-prism

  4. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    7 Jun, 2013 - 5:44 pm

    @ April Showers

    The Old Biddy obviously hasn’t taken to heart my post about going off-topic all the time and thereby disrupting and diverting the thread! But, despite the evidence, I live in hope….

    (Today’s Obsession : ‘Agent’ Cameron)

    PS – I remember the old thing being very disparaging about Keith Vaz in the past and here she is quoting him with seeming approval. Nothing like consistency!

  5. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    7 Jun, 2013 - 5:49 pm

    @ Cryptonym :

    “…Charles and Camilla, self-styled ‘royalty’…)

    ———–

    A somewhat curious expression – what is ‘self-styled’ about them?

    About as curious as saying “..Cryptonym, self-styled ‘commenter’..”

  6. Wasn’t Keith Vaz mixed up the Fiji sting corruption scandal, he should be hanging his head in shame and resigning from whatever committees he is on as well as departing the HoC, if so.

    I think he is at the damage limitation game on this NSA issue, in return for being kept on the periphery of the Fiji affair, as some other money-grasping crook is sacrificed for mere show.

  7. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    7 Jun, 2013 - 6:12 pm

    @ self-styled ‘Cryptonym :

    Aren’t you going a little off-message?

    Surely if Mr Vaz were no longer in Parliament, the Old Biddy would not have been able to quote with such approval the “chilling” thoughts of that senior Labour MP?

  8. Flaming June

    7 Jun, 2013 - 6:24 pm

    Yes Cryptonym. I think he was one of the 20 tame MPs that Mercer enticed into the Fiji group. I watched Panorama last night. I thought him appalling. To think he is collecting two more years’ salary when he packs it in. He will leave with a pension too and I think there is an additional payment to a retiring MP.

    This is what I wrote about Vaz in an e-mail I sent to friends at 17.41 One had asked if it (the situation) can get any worse. She had reported extra overflying fighter jets where she lives. (‘yesterday four F16 and the more up to date ones were all over the skies here just like a rash and at low level, I bet I know what they are up to.’)
    ~~~
    I said:

    Yes it can …..

    UK gathering secret intelligence via covert NSA operation

    Exclusive: UK security agency GCHQ gaining information from world’s biggest internet firms through US-run Prism programme

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/07/uk-gathering-secret-intelligence-nsa-prism

    Mr Vaz finds this disclosure ‘chilling’. That’s just what we think of him and his cohort.

    ~~

  9. Thank you Fred.

  10. Flaming June

    7 Jun, 2013 - 6:37 pm

    For information.

    Human Rights Council
    Twenty-third session
    Agenda item 7
    Human rights situation in Palestine and other occupied Arab territories

    Report of the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, Richard Falk*

    Summary
    In the present report, while noting the continuing non-cooperation of Israel, the Special Rapporteur addresses Israel‟s Operation “Pillar of Defense” and the general human rights situation in the Gaza Strip, as well as the expansion of Israeli settlements – and businesses that profit from Israeli settlements and the situation of Palestinians detained by Israel.

    Contents
    I. Introduction
    II. The Gaza Strip
    A. Operation “Pillar of Defense”
    B. Economic and social conditions
    C. Health in Gaza
    D. Ceasefire implementation
    III. Palestinian detainees in Israeli prisons and detention centres
    IV. Settlements
    V. Businesses that profit from Israeli settlements
    VI. Recommendations

    http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/RegularSession/Session23/A-HRC-23%20-21_en.pdf

    Nothing has changed. In fact, the Palestinians’ plight is worse than ever.

  11. Thanks, Fred.

    “Full Article at BBC News”

    No thanks, Mary. You spend half the time telling us how appalling the BBC is, and the other half quoting it at us. It’s feckin weird.

  12. “I’m opposed to Nationalism, whether it’s Scottish Nationalism, British Nationalism or Zionism. I’m opposed to the propagation of Nationalist myths designed to incite hatred.”

    Nationalism is just another form of Tribalism. Nothing more and nothing less. Thats how medieval we are.
    ——
    Can we debate things out here without spitting on each other, please. Appeal to all offenders, for what its worth.

  13. Obama says we can’t have 100% security (genius!) and 100% privacy. But we can have him as a 100% hypocrite!

  14. Jimmy Giro asked earlier, “So, how’s Ireland doing these days ?”

    Munsterman responded: “Well the North is one sandwich short of a complete basket case in every respect. Have a peep :
    Irish town erects fake shop fronts for G8 summit”

    I am reliably informed that that is all one D Cameron’s doing. The idiot.

  15. Finally, the corporate media are holding power to account. The Verizon/GCHQ surveillance scandal isn’t just about the management of the state – this is about how the dark heart of the secret state operates, how power is wielded. Let’s hope the BBC and the Guardian, and others, actually keep running with this ball. Usually they drop it when they get too close to something or a juicy scrap is thrown out to distract them. Werrity and MI5 knowledge pre-7/7 spring to mind. Obama and Cameron have got their hands full now.
    This is about Governments routinely spying on people. This is what totalitarian regimes do. It doesn’t get much bigger as a news story.

  16. Flaming June

    7 Jun, 2013 - 8:01 pm

    Dreoilin. This item

    BBC News 9 minutes ago
    Vaz: GCHQ US spy claims ‘chilling’
    .
    7 June 2013 Claims Britain’s electronic listening post GCHQ has been gathering data through a secret US spy programme are “chilling,” says a senior Labour MP. Keith Vaz, chairman of the home affairs committee, said he would be… Full Article at BBC News
    was copied from the Sky News website.

    Was I supposed to delete ‘Full article at BBC News’ so as not to offend you?

  17. Flaming June

    7 Jun, 2013 - 8:14 pm

    Henceforth I shall refer to the RI (Resident Interrogator/Invigilator) as ‘The Old Cock’ if he/she persists in using that derogatory term to refer to me. There seems to be a fixation with hens.

    bid·dy 1 (bd)
    n. pl. bid·dies
    A hen; a fowl.

    He/she has absolutely no right to attempt to squelch comment here dependent on the identity of the poster. Who does he/she think he/she is? It is NOT his/her blog as I have repeatedly said over the last seven months.

  18. “He/she [Habbabkuk] has absolutely no right to attempt to squelch comment here dependent on the identity of the poster”

    Hence your sly attempts at slandering me by implication with your irregular, defamatory comments describing Australia and its people as a “racist country”.

    You, my dear, are quite the hypocrite.

    – – –
    Go Scotland, Vote YES for Scottish Independence!

  19. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    7 Jun, 2013 - 8:30 pm

    @ Dreoilin :

    “No thanks, Mary. You spend half the time telling us how appalling the BBC is, and the other half quoting it at us. It’s feckin weird.”
    ——–

    Dreoilin, please do not mock the afflicted, she’s probably just a little confused.

    BTW, since she doesn’t read my comments, would you please do me a favour and, with reference to her post at 18h24, let her know that F16s are not used for intelligence gathering? Thanks in advance!

  20. “Was I supposed to delete ‘Full article at BBC News’ so as not to offend you?”

    It’s a pity it wasn’t clear that it was “copied from the Sky News website”. That’s what quotation marks are for, Mary. If it had been in quotation marks, I’d have known you didn’t write it, wouldn’t I.

    So, tough.

  21. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    7 Jun, 2013 - 8:35 pm

    @ Flaming June :

    “Henceforth I shall refer to the RI (Resident Interrogator/Invigilator) as ‘The Old Cock’….”
    ———

    I protest strongly against the use of the adjective “old”!!! No problem with the Cock bit though.

  22. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    7 Jun, 2013 - 8:54 pm

    @ Villager :

    “Obama says we can’t have 100% security (genius!) and 100% privacy. But we can have him as a 100% hypocrite”
    ———–

    Perhaps I’m misinterpreting you, but the tone of your second sentence appears to indicate that you disagree with, or even contest, what the President said in the first sentence.

    It follows, therefore, that you believe that one can have 100% security and 100% privacy. If so, you are wrong.
    ___________________________

    More seriously though, you may already have noticed that there is no such thing as 100% privacy and nor can there be – and, before you say it, this is not exclusive to the modern state or a product of a developed society (read some works on anthropology and you will see that, for example, there is zero privacy in the most ‘primitive’ human groupings such as tribal societies).

    Hope this helps.

  23. “Dreoilin …

    BTW, since she doesn’t read my comments, would you please do me a favour and, with reference to her post at 18h24, let her know that F16s are not used for intelligence gathering? Thanks in advance!” — Habbabkuk

    ————

    Mary says, “It is NOT his/her blog as I have repeatedly said over the last seven months.”

    And it’s not yours either, Mary. I often wonder if you comment anywhere else, on any other blogs. Because if you did, you might be more used to the give and take, and even to occasional attacks on you. I’ve been called a LOT worse than an “old biddy” on blogs all over the internet, especially on Tea Party sites. And I wouldn’t attempt to reply to Villager with “I do not have to justify myself”, like you did. Blog comments are all about discussion and even argument. Most commenters here have been asked to justify what they have said, at one time or another. Even Clark and Jon (when Clark was a mod) and they have not used their title of “moderator” as an excuse to duck clarification, either.

    You used the word “racist” in a reply to me on some thread some time ago. I asked you, nicely, three times, on the same thread, to clarify what you meant. And although you commented again on the same thread, you ignored me.

    But you don’t ignore me when it suits you, eh?

  24. O/T (very, very)

    Yikes! I had no idea that Jonathan Rhys Meyers was Irish!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Rhys_Meyers

    (was watching the Tudors while down in Wexford) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tudors

  25. While betwixt and between agent Cameron attending a Middle East black budget huddle in a dimly lit meeting room at the Grove Hotel and GCHQ beaming our internet information through PRISM, a major incursion by USUKIS terrorists into Syria from Jordon is expected in the next 24hrs according to information from a British mercenary working out of Dubai.

  26. Dreoilin :

    Munsterman responded: “Well the North is one sandwich short of a complete basket case in every respect. Have a peep :
    Irish town erects fake shop fronts for G8 summit”

    I am reliably informed that that is all one D Cameron’s doing. The idiot.

    ——————————————————————————-

    It is something you’d expect to see in the former Soviet Union in order to try and impress visiting tourists.

    Beggars belief.

    Thankfully, 5/6 of Ireland is independent – and the remaining 1/6 a work-in-progress towards Re-Unification.

    Interesting Report on Scottish Oil from 1975 :

    http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf

    Some excerpts :

    (i) “The country (Scotland) would tend to be in chronic surplus to a
    quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in
    Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner.”

    (ii)”Thus, for the first time since the Act of Union was passed, it can now
    be credibly argued that Scotland’s economic advantage lies in the repeal of the Act”.

    Interesting conclusions.

    I wonder why London tried to conceal this Report from the Scottish people ?

  27. @habba 8:30pm

    RF-16

    Seems like there are some things you don’t know.

  28. You lot amaze me. When Craig posts that he is under the weather and he cannot walk for less than 200mtrs, you lot continue to bicker, scream like little kids and hijack an interesting post for your pitiful ‘have a go at each other’ stupid comments. My suggestion is that some of you just piss off and start your open blog where you can all drip your poison to your hearts content. I have posted on this blog for 5 years, now I am sadly disillusioned.

  29. Habba, you Old oaf, the only sensible thing you said is “Perhaps I’m misinterpreting you”. Answer, yes you are. I used the word ‘genius’ to congratulate the POTUS for figuring out that we can’t have 100% security. (Makes me feel warm that i can now wrap myself in my blue blanket in the comfort that we are being lead by such a brainy guy.) Wow, took him however many long years to figure that out! Ditto for privacy, so wtf is he talking about it? Answer, because he made a pre-election promise that he would eliminate/substantially reduce the snooping (he said “that’s not who we are”). In fact he’s taken it further than Dubya. Exposed, he’s now distracting you with these 100%’s which any idiot knows are impossibilities. So, he’s a 100% hypocrite. GITMO Syndrome. Ball-less coward.

    Now, don’t give me a hard time with your history lessons, but tell me one new, fresh creative action the Young Cock, (who is greying rapidly) has done for the good of the Planet.
    ——
    PS LOL at your 8.35 and i understand your objection re Old but i promise not to combine it with any C-word! And glad to see you staying young with your volleyball.

  30. “Interesting Report on Scottish Oil from 1975 :

    http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf

    Thanks, Munsterman. Looks like an interesting read. I see that it mentions that, “There might be some argument about where the boundary between English
    and Scottish waters would lie”, and that subject has already arisen here, Craig being an expert on maritime boundaries.

    Yes, the story about Enniskillen beggars belief. I’ve heard it’s gone around the world. No doubt they’re all laughing. I hope they have the sense to know who they’re laughing at.

  31. Mark, I would expect nothing less. How big and bad this gets will depend, I think, on how far Russia wants to take it. Because you can be sure if Syria is on the menu, “we” won’t be satisfied until it’s served up on a plate.
    I’m reminded of the 1930’s here. And we know how that economic depression ended. If Russia won’t back down I reckon this might turn into a pretty major exchange of fire, between it, Israel and probably the US, initially through proxies, but then who knows. This is what’s on the horizon. It’s all down to President Howdy Doody now. Does he have enough humanity to de-escalate, or does the neocon war machine call the shots, as it were?

  32. Scott Johnson

    7 Jun, 2013 - 11:20 pm

    The latest Scottish Social Attitudes Survey report (June 2013) shows that support for Independence is 11 points ahead of support for the status quo:

    Independence: 35%

    Status quo: 24%

    For options not available in the referendum, the results are:

    “Devo max” (everything devolved except defence and foreign affairs): 32%

    No Scottish Parliament: 6%

    So unless most of those supporting “Devo max” vote No, which seems highly unlikely, Scotland will vote Yes to Independence in September 2014.

    I am now convinced that the results being presented by the so called “independent” polling companies bear no credibility.

    Remember, these are the same polling companies which were predicting a Labour win at the 2011 Scottish election.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/uninteresting-news-ignored/

  33. Mark, I should add that it also depends on what the Jordanian people do; the Turks might have had enough of their Government’s position as Washington’s bitch. We’ll see. Maybe Syria will be saved as a functioning nation state, where kids don’t ingest depleted uranium from “our” bombs, and where the rule of tribal gangs doesn’t hold sway.

  34. The rot seems to have set in with contributions to this site when it was “made-over” with a blueish layout, user avatars and the preview page was removed. With that facility you could at least reconsider your efforts before setting them in stone with the submit button. It would be worth while bringing it back.

    I understood there were moderators on here to remove these offenders but if not, could some kind of filter be put in place to reject posts containing the bog-standard selection of offensive four letter words. I’m not in favor generally speaking of cookies but if they could be used as a way of being able to ignore and not show the postings of certain raving loonies and trolls then it would make this site a bit more bearable.

    Other than that I have to agree with Frazer that these trolls and fools should go and pee up their own walls somewhere else.

    I note that comments sections of Mail on Line never have offensive words allowed whereas the ultra high brow and super liberal Guardian’s Comment is Free sections allows every swear word under the sun. It may be libertarian to do so and indicate signs of a free society but also can be a tad boring after a while.

  35. I’m reminded of the 1930′s here. And we know how that economic depression ended. If Russia won’t back down I reckon this might turn into a pretty major exchange of fire, between it, Israel and probably the US, initially through proxies, but then who knows.

    In a private meeting, Putin has gone on record; even if the fighting reaches the outskirts of Moscow, it is worth keeping Syria on board.

    The latest bout of indignations here in US controlled territories are mainly due to the simple fact that Syrian Army is kicking the crap out of the terrorists, and winning the war. Hence the cries of foul, and weapons of mass destruction. However, Russians have already announced a permanent Mediterranean naval presence. Therefore, the notions of Russians taking this new round of expansionism on the chin and letting the US and the coalition of the coattail hangers to take Syria, is a pipe dream. Further, so far as zionistan is concerned, it is used to fighting unarmed and stone throwing Palestinians, and has little stomach in the way of confronting any army that can fight back.

    Also, so far as the major fire exchange goes; this will quickly escalate to exchange of nukes, which Russia and China stand a better chance of surviving it, than the West (missile shield is the clue). This matter has not gone unnoticed by the “Masters of the Universe”, who can see their arse is on the line too. Hence no repeat of WWII, because it will be far too costly and not much of use. The banksters are bluffing, and the rest of the world know this fact too well.

  36. “More seriously though, you may already have noticed that there is no such thing as 100% privacy and nor can there be – and, before you say it, this is not exclusive to the modern state or a product of a developed society (read some works on anthropology and you will see that, for example, there is zero privacy in the most ‘primitive’ human groupings such as tribal societies).”

    There’s very little privacy in primitive societies, and there was little privacy right up to the Tudors.

    Privacy rises as societies become more civilised, so you can probably see the height of that in the 19th century in England.

    Privacy is certainly on the decrease and that would indicate that we’re heading towards more primitive times.

  37. “I am now convinced that the results being presented by the so called “independent” polling companies bear no credibility.”

    The survey shows 35% in favour and 62% against, that’s in line with the last independent survey I saw.

  38. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 12:28 am

    Parky; As I see it, the mods have some difficulty with management. The support seems to be lacking.

  39. Alan Campbell
    “I wonder who Craig will blame when Scotland votes “No”? The CIA and/ or the BBC?”

    The whole purpose of dividing countries is that smaller countries are easier to push around. The CIA and BBC are tools/agents, not actual powers that be. Nobody blames the guillotine or the executioner. You have to focus on the intentions of the powers that be.

  40. Frazer, do you know the old cartoon of a rustic gout-sufferer, foot bandaged and raised to relieve the pain, fishing in a half-barrel in his parlour? All human life is here. Squabbling chickens (no names mentioned), prattling fools (now known as trolls), impoverished but sincere curates (myself included), wigged politicians with manifestos for changing the world.

    Your future is secure. As an agent of international relations on the moorland borders between the UK and Scotland. I’m sure you will find that mines will soon be being planted there by agents of Prince Charles to stop paparazzi photoing his childrens’ bare behinds.

  41. I know it’s a criminal offence to infect other people with HIV, but could we not have a law to stop certain members infecting important discussions with Hidden institutional values?

    I’m still fuming about this statement by Herpesballs:
    “Perhaps such an approach was only capable of general acceptance in the aftermath of something like WW2, where an existential danger succeeded in overcoming – temporarily – man’s natural selfishness?” in the Ed Balls thread.

    Is it the product of a functioning brain to question the intrinsic usefulness of mutual human assistance? Do we not pay politicians large salaries to lay out these stupid ideas in parliament without having Hoblinshill spittle wetting our internet earlobes? I know the talking end of the phone sometimes need a wipe round with disinfectant, but you shouldn’t have to keep a toilet roll permanently on hand to dry the drivel from your earholes.

  42. Subtract the trolls (Guano and Alan Campbell/Fred included) and there would be very few left here actively commenting until this pestilence passes. Self-congratulation of the “mission accomplished”, “or my job here is done” type, as the trolls would gloatingly put it, can only be premature. In time they stick out like a sore thumb, and given enough rope …

  43. Mark Golding

    It seems obvious to me the the Shi’a militia that were deployed in Al Qusayr were transported through Jordan from their unwelcome presence in Baghdad to Syria through the agency of the arch-betrayers, Israel, who are supposed to be part of the USUKIS alliance for Assad regime change.

    Our banking friends, to whom we owe the very survival of Western Economies as they (do not) exist, have now explained why they needed to conquer Iraq. To cover their northern border with Sunni Syria by means of their real real friends the Shia. N.B. No Bull, my friend.

  44. Catcreptin

    I have an agenda, but it ain’t the same as Haven’taprayer or JustasIfeared. Spare me the sick-bowl, please.

  45. I agree with you Guano (in this rare instance) with the “intrinsic usefulness of mutual human assistance”. Though that important and heartening thought was lost in the obscuring superfluous verbiage. It has a been a large part of group/tribal survival, it served us well and still can, but a global society which preaches institutionally ‘think only of yourself’ and in which only those who do so thrive, will in time lead to those following such a credo ascending to power and those rejecting it perishing. I then consider that this dismal course of events and outcome has already happened, an incalculable number of times. One then considers if such narcissism is genetically heritable, that successor generations might or might not be destined to or pre-disposed, selected to behave in the same manner as their progenitors, or is each child anew pure and their environment will make them monsters.

  46. @guano: Well your joining in with the demonisation of Assad is (still) very suspect, and when you get all religious and quasi-mystical it makes my and I’m sure many others heads spin and eyes glaze over, sometimes for me simply the word g-o-d causes this reaction and automatically and totally discredits the interlocuter as someone “lost in the prisons of religion”. At the same time I especially abhor religious discrimination as the circumstances, the labelling that assigns one or another person to any faith is more often than not arbitary, is very rarely a conscious choice and if it was a conscious choice, rather than the more common familial inherited religion, it is even less explicable. There is more than enough to be seized upon to divide us without creating new intangible ones that are entirely societal constructs.

  47. I’ve had that feeling recently: opening a book (ostensibly dealing with scientific/technical matters) and finding ‘God’ was there top of the list in the acknowledgements section; after a hearty laugh I threw it in the bin unread, rather than risk whatever idiocies might follow.

  48. Dr Liam Fox on the way back in…..

    Don’t forget, you read about it on Habbabkuk first!

  49. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 7:55 am

    Ruth Davidson with Andrew Neil on the Daily Politics show
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlvj1FlRsTc

  50. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 8:00 am

    Good for the six protesters (including a pensioner) for standing up to this obscenity.

    UK’s use of drones in Afghanistan ‘may be in breach of international law’
    Campaigning lawyers challenge legal defence set out by RAF as six protesters await trial over mass trespass of UK drone HQ

    Owen Bowcott, legal affairs correspondent

    The Guardian, Saturday 8 June 2013
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/uk-drones-afghanistan-legal-challenge

  51. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 8:19 am

    Heather Brooke and a Gabriel Schoenfeld on Ch 4 News last night.

    Do democracies have to operate in secret?  video

    Gabriel Schoenfeld says covert information gathering may be necessary when a country is at war. Journalist Heather Brooke argues that governments have to make the case for such behaviour.

    http://www.channel4.com/news/do-democracies-have-to-operate-in-secret-video

    Schoenfeld comes from the right wing think tank The Hudson Institute.
    http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=GabrielSchoenfeld

  52. If we’re talking drones, we should also talk about the complicity of the Pakistani military with the Afghan/’good’ Taliban. Pakistan if i recollect was at one time a better performing economy than India. They missed an opportunity in the last decade to milk the Americans (who were spending $11 billion a month on the Afghan War) and build a modern economy. Instead it is the Pak military i believe that took away the cream — and probably banked it in Dubai and Saudi Arabia (HQ).

    As the pull-out begins, it is worrying what will be the fate of the ordinary Afghans. While o/t i would quite like to hear Frazer’s views. The Scots thread appears to be exhausted from what i can see.

  53. “Privacy is certainly on the decrease and that would indicate that we’re heading towards more primitive times.”

    Herbie you’re absolutely right, except we are already far more primitive than is made out to be by ‘modern’ man, which most people i suspect are unwilling to accept.

    What about cooperation? What do you see as the trends there?

  54. Will comment on that later…..off to London and to see Craig later today.

  55. Craig, hope you’re feeling better. At a pain management level, it is worth exploring some kind of needle or other pointed treatment e.g. what Mark suggested.

    I tried intramuscular stimulation once upon my neck which i couldn’t move and walked out 15 mins later approx. 80% better — couldn’t believe it. It wasn’t acupuncture. Check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_needling

    I still think, if you are a swimmer, you might be able to release the pain by even a little improvement on working on your body conditioning. And the avoidance of all milk products other than the few drops in your tea will help to stop exacerbating the pain. And of course less meat, more vegetables, and no sour and fermented foods. Good luck!

    Check this video out, its a rather crude version of IMS, but it seemed to work. Inspiring:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-xBz2h1Cc4

  56. Thanks Frazer. I’ll certainly look forward to it. And keep the bottle away from him on this occasion, substitute with chamomile, mint or green tea — lots off. Be good to see him back on his feet soon.

  57. doug scorgie

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:01 am

    O/T but topical (ie current)

    Prime Minister David Cameron will be hosting a G8 “hunger summit” in London on Today. Present at this summit will be representatives from some of the most powerful multinationals including Cargill and Monsanto.

    “This is part of what is called the New Alliance for food security and nutrition (called at the G8 last year). In actual fact, this New Alliance is going to be the vehicle to spread land grabbing and GM across the African agricultural economy. African countries are going to be signed up to aid conditionalities that will open them up for private takeover of their land and seeds and further resource extraction.”

    http://www.wdm.org.uk/g8-fuelling-hunger

    Cargill operates in 66 countries.

    “In 2005, the International Labor Rights Fund filed suit against Cargill, Nestlé, and Archer Daniels Midland in federal court on behalf of children who were trafficked from Mali into Côte d’Ivoire and forced to work 12 to 14 hours a day with no pay, little food and sleep, and frequent physical abuse, on cocoa bean plantations.”

    “Cargill is a major buyer of cotton in Uzbekistan, despite the industry prevalence of uncompensated workers and possible human rights abuses, and admissions made by two representatives that the company is aware of the possible use of child labor in the production of its crops. Their concerns have been public since 2005, but no action has been taken regarding labor violations existent in their Uzbek operations.”

    Monsanto:
    Well, where do I start?

    “The new alliance prioritises unprecedented access for multinational companies to resources in Africa. To access cash under the initiative, African governments have to make far-reaching changes to their land, seed and farming policies.”

    “For a disturbing read, take a look at the new alliance’s co-operation frameworks with countries. Mozambique, for example, is committed to “systematically ceasing to distribute free and unimproved [non-commercial] seeds to farmers except in emergencies”.

    The new alliance will lock poor farmers into buying increasingly expensive seeds – including genetically modified seeds – allow corporate monopolies in seed selling, and escalate the loss of precious genetic diversity in seeds – absolutely key in the fight against hunger.

    It will also open the door to genetically modified (GM) crops in Africa by stopping farmers’ access to traditional local varieties and forcing them to buy private seeds.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/poverty-matters/2013/jun/07/g8-new-alliance-flawed-project

    I wonder what will be on the food menu for this gathering of VIP’s?

  58. “The new alliance prioritises unprecedented access for multinational companies to resources in Africa. To access cash under the initiative, African governments have to make far-reaching changes to their land, seed and farming policies.”

    They’re at it in Europe too.

    http://www.realseeds.co.uk/seedlaw.html

  59. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:39 am

    I thought I might come across the names here when searching for G8 hunger summit. Phony Tony has nothing on Agent Cameron.

    ‘This ‘New Alliance’ was launched during the US G8 presidency last year. There’s plenty in it to benefit Unilever and the other multinationals – including Cargill, Monsanto and Syngenta – who have signed up, but it’s much less obvious how it will translate into poverty reduction.’

    The real winners from today’s hunger summit
    The real causes of hunger are inequality of wealth and power, not a lack of big business. So the G8 leaders should abandon their efforts to promote the corporate takeover of African agriculture, and instead support the demands of the African farmers’ groups.
    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/real-winners-todays-hunger-summit

    ~~~

    G8 “Hunger Summit” initiative rejected by African civil society – Corporate takeover of agriculture & land will increase hunger, groups claim PDF 03 June 2013

    At the heart of the leading initiatives to “modernise” African agriculture is a drive to open markets and create space for multinationals to secure profits. Green revolution technologies – and the legal and institutional changes being introduced to support them – will benefit a few at the expense of the majority.

    As world leaders gather at the high profile ‘Hunger Summit’ in London this week to endorse the spate of on-going initiatives to ‘modernise’ African agriculture, 57 farmer and civil society organisations from 37 countries across the continent have slammed these efforts as ‘a new wave of colonialism’. Harmonisation, free trade and the creation of institutions and infrastructure to facilitate multinational companies’ penetration into Africa are presented as the answer to food insecurity on the continent. These large multinational seed, fertiliser and agrochemical companies are setting the agenda for the G8’s “New Alliance for Food Security and Nutrition in Africa”, the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA) and the implementation of the African Union’s Comprehensive African Agricultural Development Programme (CAADP).

    http://www.acbio.org.za/index.php/media/64-media-releases/432-g8-qhunger-summitq-initiative-rejected-by-african-civil-society-corporate-takeover-of-agriculture-a-land-will-increase-hunger-groups-claim

  60. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:45 am

    Sorry Fred and Doug. Didn’t look back before posting. Great minds think alike :) but we all have different links.

    4I was prompted to post something having just seen the well fed face of Cameron speaking humbug about 1 billion on this planet going hungry. I presume that he and the other parasites at The Grove all filled their faces last night on the best food available.

    http://www.thegrove.co.uk/food/

  61. Cryptonym

    Thank you for your generous and open-minded response. I agree with you about fears that the human spirit is capable of degenerating and that is the best possible argument for welcoming outsiders of all colours into the UK to freshen up our mental habits as a nation. Humans thrive on inter-communication.

    My work makes it necessary to befriend and to use the services of people of many religions. Tensions occur and we have to bear in mind our interdependence on eachother all the time. Sometimes when people forget this, as the dictators like Saddam and Assad have done, we have to remind them. If you take us off the street in broad daylight and torture us, we will one day find a way to return your treatment to you. Revenge is for killing, not for every little thing.

    When a Muslim is having a go at other creeds it does not mean that they are about to wield the machetes on the streets of London, or even if they found themselves on the streets of Aleppo. We are trying to find the theologically correct route to paradise as contained in the scriptures given for the purpose.

    1967 mini manual id no good for BMW mini. BS 7671 2008 Electrical Installation, revised, not the 12th,15th or even 16th edition. My sense of humour comes from that spiritual truth. When you see that God is in charge of everything, then trials become opportunities.

    Sometimes even health events like Craig’s enable one to find how much of the rest of the body system is functioning normally, while the particular problem is being analysed for a solution. Cure is with God. He made the system, and He has a right to pull us up and check our intentions in whatever way it suits Him.

    They say that incongruity is the source of humour. As in Lewis Carroll:
    “”In my youth,” said his father, “I took to the law,
    And argued each case with my wife;
    And the muscular strength which it gave to my jaw,
    Has lasted the rest of my life.”

    But when I told my son yesterday that the pelvic muscles my ex developed doing bad things have enabled her now to join an Olympic rowing team, I get told off for being cheeky. There are ways and ways of dealing with problems, and the right ones, the light-weight, humourous ones do seem to take a long time coming.

  62. Fred “The survey shows 35% in favour and 62% against, that’s in line with the last independent survey I saw.”

    You are wrong, Fred.
    The survey shows 35% in favour of independence, and 24% for the status quo, with another 6% wanting the Scottish Parliament abolished. I make that 35% for, and 30% against.
    The rest wanted Devo Max, which isn’t on offer. How they vote will decide the referendum.
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/uninteresting-news-ignored/

  63. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 11:07 am

    Back to Prism. Microsoft’s Gates has just been on TV. He is at the G8 ‘Hunger’ Summit needless to say. The interview wasn conducted in the open air with the Shard in the background. He completely denied any Microsoft involvement in or complicity with the NSA project.

    LOL. And laughing in our faces, again.

    Passerby linked to this blog yesterday.

    NSA Built Back Door In All Windows Software by 1999
    Posted on June 7, 2013 by Washingtons Blog

    Government Built Spy-Access Into Most Popular Consumer Program Before 9/11

    In researching the stunning pervasiveness of spying by the government (it’s much more wide spread than you’ve heard even now), we ran across the fact that the FBI wants software programmers to install a backdoor in all software.

    Digging a little further, we found a 1999 article by leading European computer publication Heise which noted that the NSA had already built a backdoor into all Windows software:

    /..
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/microsoft-programmed-in-nsa-backdoor-in-windows-by-1999.html

  64. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 11:19 am

    Hold that about Gates and Prism. Might have misheard what he said judging from another conversation I just heard. Will confirm.

  65. Flaming June.
    I was aware of my car being tracked by police in the early 90s and the Family police officer told me it was ridiculous for me to think that the technology to do that was affordable or available at that time. Until quite recently they were trying to persuade us that street-cleaners were working for MI5 trying to glean information about us Muslims.

    Fact is, that not only do they gather information about us but they share that information with a broad range of Muslim institutions, such as employers, Mosques and other agents. The best way to deal with this unwanted attention is to feed them with everything they don’t want to hear about the truth, religion, Bilderberg succubi, the workings of the bought mentality of the collaborator section of society. When they are being paid to listen, they have to listen. Snoop soup, sheep’s eyeballs, everything!

    Ask Herbacious-Bordering-On-Insane.

  66. @Frazer 7 Jun 10:30pm

    Although my comment at 10:25pm 7 Jun was my first post, like you I have been following Craig’s blog for some years. Generally I find the debate informed and thought-provoking, and often this blog is the first site I visit when the computer gets turned on.

    Having said that, there are a few individuals who delight in directing sarcastic, sometimes malicious remarks at others seemingly for the “sport” of it. Feeling tired and irritable at the end of a bad day at work, I couldn’t resist my response to that individual. I actually found it quite therapeutic :)

    I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments but beg your indulgance just this one time.

  67. THANK you June
    The other question he refused point blank to address was in reference to fair trade.

    Like other hypocrite so called philanthropists Gates does not seem to see the blindingly obvious connection between the unequal distribution of wealth on the one hand and enduring starvation and poverty on the other. He and other plutocrats who had benefited from government ineptitude and inability (or perhaps used their obscene wealth as influence) to legislate against protectionism and for free trade to become maga rich. To answer the question about whether fair trade with LECDs might not be a better solution than giving direct food relief, hiding behind the mask of philanthropy and saintliness like school child Gates refused to answer unless the questions made him look spotless, quite clearly from your research he has spots the size of craters to cover up.

  68. Juin Flambée

    Wasn’t Herbacious Border.. not telling us recently that lack privacy was the norm for us detritus of human specimins. Some of us evolved respect for our fellow human beings and we regard spying or repeating what we overheard as a very low pursuit.
    When I was in Turkey a couple of years ago I asked them what they thought about low-grade jobless Herbacious types taking jobs spying. They regarded it as very much part of the norm, as if they were well conditioned to Big Brother. This explains the popularity of Egodan. Many would rather a bout of direct confrontation to the constant grinding looking over the shoulder, by homosexual, non-Muslim, freemason, Attaturk spying.

    Unfortunately amongst Muslim would-be leaders in this country it is now the norm. A respectable Muslim profession. Allah forgive us and guide us to another way. No wonder people don’t trust the Muslims!

  69. “You are wrong, Fred.
    The survey shows 35% in favour of independence, and 24% for the status quo, with another 6% wanting the Scottish Parliament abolished. I make that 35% for, and 30% against.
    The rest wanted Devo Max, which isn’t on offer. How they vote will decide the referendum.”

    Well no, I’m not wrong. Only 35% voted in an option resulting in independence while 62% voted for an option which didn’t.

    The last independent poll I saw showed 31% yes and 59% no which, as I said, is in line with those figures.

    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scottish-independence-poll-drop-in-yes-backing-1-2924728

    The independent poll didn’t try to manipulate the figures by giving options which will not be on the ballot paper.

  70. Let’s use your logic then Fred.
    Only 24% want the status quo, therefore 76% want change. As independence is the only change offered, independence is a formality.

  71. O/T (but fun)

    Your company’s one-stop PRISM involvement denial statement generator:
    http://colingourlay.github.io/deny-prism/

    It works too, I typed in GCHQ.

  72. @Fred

    “I post it because it is true […]”

    This has to be one of the most breathtakingly arrogant comments I’ve ever seen (and there has been some competition), the level of detachment from reality and arrogance there and in most of your bilious comments is disturbing. Something isn’t true, cannot be true simply on the basis of who is saying it. Someone who is so sure that everything they say is inviolable truth, without exception, in the face of so many disagreeing strongly with you and trying to understand your warped viewpoint and your motivation for disseminating it, I would think would begin to entertain doubts. Instead being called out on your hypocrisy and lies seems to entrench your position to the point of absurdity, inviting mockery.

    “push their false perspective of reality on the blog.”

    That describes your sorry contribution succintly.

    I think that was a confession you just made, If continuing to suffer your comments, I must try to read them backwards, they make far more sense that way.

  73. “Let’s use your logic then Fred.
    Only 24% want the status quo, therefore 76% want change. As independence is the only change offered, independence is a formality.”

    That isn’t logic.

    Your poll doesn’t show which way those choosing the other options would vote.

    The independent poll does.

    The poll was published in the Times so I assume it was commissioned by them, the owner of the Times has voiced his support for Independence.

  74. @Cryptonym

    Then post your evidence that Scottish bank notes have been not accepted in England for any other reasons than those I stated.

    Post something more than malicious character assassinations and unfounded allegations. I posted the facts and I posted the evidence, you have posted nothing but intimidation and hatemongering.

  75. Fred “That isn’t logic.

    Your poll doesn’t show which way those choosing the other options would vote.”

    Yet in your previous post, ““The survey shows 35% in favour and 62% against, that’s in line with the last independent survey I saw.”

    In your previous post, you had all the other options voting No!

    If you are going to spout nonsense, at least keep it consistent.

  76. @Juteman

    As how you try to twist it you have posted no evidence whatsoever of how many of those in your poll would vote, I have posted evidence and it’s evidence you can’t accuse of being biassed.

  77. Fred: Why would I want to get into a discussion with you over something so insignificant as banknotes? It is just a microcosm of the issue being discussed, through which you think you can save face; your constant smears of the very idea (how dare they!) of Scotland’s Independence, hiding behind the preposterous notion of a generalised distaste for nationalism, whilst prescribing British nationalism for all whether they like or choose it, is quite a spectacle, but your excuses have worn thin and your comedic value is exhausted.

    I cannot account for the non-acceptance of Scottish banknotes, seemingly arbitrarily in some parts of England, I have experienced it but have no interest in or likelihood of determining fully why. I have no means to determine the true reasons, and neither do you, the reasons you give as the only reasons with the religious certainty of a crank are certainly given and might be a part but are not by any means the whole story. A difference between us on this specific issue is I’m not interested, it is of no importance or care to me whatsoever

    Juteman, It looks a lovely day out, don’t get bogged down with this Fred and waste it. He’s gone out on a limb so far in thread, that there’s just no way back for him. He’s lost.

  78. Hi all. Looks like the scissors have to come out – feel free to have a bash at each other, but once strong epithets are thrown, it’s a downward spiral from there. Deleted three four five from Fred and one from pictishbeastie (both sides are at it!). Since I was previously discussing with Fred, I will drop out of the discussion.

    TonyOpmoc, hello! Trust you are well. It’s me that is deleting your posts – we do permit slightly off-topic stuff here, but as you know yours are just meandering notes on your family life. Perhaps you could start your own blog?

  79. @Fred

    You mean you tell actual pollsters the truth?
    OK. Let’s end elections. Let’s just have polls.

    Did you notice the latest poll shows more Scots favour Independence than not? That’s that sorted then isn’t it?

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/uninteresting-news-ignored/

  80. I see there was some discussion earlier about how to quote from other sources, so it is clear what is your own prose and what is a quote. To do it, use the {blockquote} tag (but use angle brackets rather than braces). Better yet, wrap with both {blockquote} and {em}. So, use this (substituting angle brackets of course):

    {blockquote}{em}Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium doloremque laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt{/em}{/blockquote}

    And that will look like this:

    Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium doloremque laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt

    Easy!

  81. “Fmaing June” writes :

    “..having just seen the well fed face of Cameron speaking humbug about 1 billion on this planet going hungry…”
    ———-

    Relevance of “the well fed face”?

    Do you have to be starving yourself before you’re allowed to talk about the starving?

    Would someone looking at Flaming June’s face conclude that she too eats well and enough?

  82. Craig, sorry to hear you are feeling down. I do hope that some relief from the pain is quickly on its way, and that you are able to get back to your book.

  83. “Did you notice the latest poll shows more Scots favour Independence than not? That’s that sorted then isn’t it? ”

    No, I noticed that it didn’t say that because it didn’t offer only the choices which will be available on the ballot form. Your survey does not indicate how 41% of the electorate will vote.

  84. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 2:38 pm

    Apparently I heard Gates correctly!

    ‘Microsoft founder Bill Gates, in London for a Hyde Park rally calling for action to end hunger, said he knew nothing about Prism, adding: “I don’t know any specifics but if there’s a court order for companies to do things it’s typical that they’re obeyed.”‘

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22824379

    Interesting (if true) that the Twitter people gave the NSA the elbow.

    ‘Meanwhile, the BBC has learned that Twitter was invited to join the Prism programme last year, but rejected the approach from US authorities.’

    I was trying to find out if Bono (who supports Monsanto) and Geldof are at this ‘hunger summit’. Bono was very active at the 2012 equivalent.

  85. @Cryptonym.
    Don’t worry. I’m sitting in the garden enjoying a cold beer or three. :-)

  86. I’ll have to change my shirt though. This Black one is far too hot. :-)

  87. O/T, but of possible interest. This didn’t make it to the front page of the Daily Wail for some reason…

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/05/duncan-smith-face-grilling-mps-over-misuse-statistics

    With deceptively little fanfare, the work and pensions select committee has announced that it intends to question Iain Duncan Smith over his misuse of statistics. After IDS was rebuked by the UK Statistics Authority for falsely claiming that 8,000 people had moved into work as a result of the introduction of the benefit cap, the committee has “decided to examine the way DWP releases benefit statistics to the media”.

  88. Arbed
    Thanks for the template. I will generate one soon.
    A prism is by definition transparent and non-transparent at the same time.

  89. BestThingEver

    8 Jun, 2013 - 4:43 pm

    I look forward to Scotland joining the euro.

  90. “…Charles and Camilla, self-styled ‘royalty’…)

    you forgot to add, ‘all time’ before self styled Cryptonym, cause here in the stomping ground of the landed Norfolk gentry we know of the consorting that went on when Diana was busy laying her eggs.

    But then certain people can do as they like, why should old habits get in the way of things.

    @ all those who support Independence. Please educate us to the extend of independence thjats on offer.
    What are the constitutional rights proposed to Scottish citizens?
    and what are their obligations or responsibilities vis a vis an Independent Scotland, apart from paying taxes?

    Will young people, for example, be required to do military/or civilian service? will Scotland’s defence be done by conscription or will it be voluntary? an issue young people might be interested in at the annual Ubuntu Doune the rabbit hole fair.

    How will taxation be regulated?, will Holyrood shadow/adopt the British tax regime?, will it be still as easy to bank offshore/evade taxation as it was within the union?

    Will an Independent Scotland be applying to be a EU member?

    Finally, will there be a tax raised on best Norfolk brewing barley, a quintessential English stiff upper lip initiative one could imagine in response.

    Surely by now all party politicians should have some sort of manifesto ready for a sustainable Scotland, leaving it to the last minute, when many of Scotland’s Tory’s will want to vote by post, if that is allowed at all, so why don’t the supporters of Independence not put some meat on the table, so we all sit down and chat over it?

  91. “Let him be violated by a hairy Scotsman for three days hence, make ablutions, and return to this blog a pardoned man.” Giles.

    Giles, thank you for sharing your erotic fantasies with us all. :)

    Btw, did you, or indeed anyone here, manage to watch the All Hill documentary? I’ve not had time – rushing, as always – is it still on i-player or the equivalent? Thanks again for correcting me on that score. Science moves forward by seeking errors in its own fabric. Likewise, with thought.

    Incidentally, wrt your comment on the supposed ‘orthodoxy’ here, actually, I thought it was fairly UKIP-friendly here. Also, I regularly make attacks on Islamists here, there and indeed everywhere and yet in general I have not faced opprobrium from what you describe as those who promote this supposed ‘orthodoxy’. People might disagree on this or that, but that’s fine with me.

    Komodo, as some people may recall, was criticised on one thread some time ago on account of other things, not for simply saying he was against unlimited immigration – a bit of a straw argument, that, since there has never been unlimited immigration.

    You know, if the UK had to take in as many refugees per head of population as Jordan or Turkey recently have taken in (from Syria), we’d be taking in 16 million people, right now, this minute (say, French/German). Now that would be “unlimted immigration”. What the UK has experienced, even in terms of proportionate numbers, is nothing close and has never been close. So this scare idea of “unlimited immigration” is just that – a scare tactic, designed to corall people into social subservience and/or internecine fighting while the men-in-pinstripes laugh all the way to the eternally “recapitalised” bank. Divide-and-rule, in other words. And that is why the EDL is useful to the powerful. They wouldn’t want it to become too strong, but one suspects that they would like it, or an equivalent jackbooted mob (the BNP became useless as an instrument), to remain active and always pointing the finger at ‘Muslims’ and ‘immigrants’ and (best of all), ‘Muslim immigrants’ and ‘those who breed faster than us’ and so on. UKIP too is useful, as it is the de facto political wing of the EDL and perhaps unlike the EDL, appeals to some middle-class English voters. So, UKIP-EDL helps to drive the political agenda to the Right, making the mainstream parties look centrist or even liberal and yet facilitating their acquiescence in maintaining the focus away from the systemic economic rape of the citizens – ALL the citizens – of this country by Wall Street/City of London. What a really liberatory political movement would do would be to press for immediate and stringent financial regulation of the sector and if the onshore robber-barons want to leave (since they are not ‘here’ in any case and actually are more of a drain than anything else), then good riddance!

    Btw, everyone, say a big ‘hello’ to Prism/ the doughnut! Perhaps we should do a football wave to GCHQ? Cheltenham FC. What division are they in? Or maybe make that a baseball wave, since it’s via the USA? Prism. Triangle. Octagon. Polygon. Googly. Hoogly. Gone.

  92. Re. the above post, at 5:29pm today: I meant ‘Jordan and Lebanon’, not ‘Jordan and Turkey’.

  93. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 5:55 pm

    Good one Suhayl. I had been thinking of Miss Prism!
    http://www.shmoop.com/importance-of-being-earnest/miss-prism.html

    The Al Hilli Murders
    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-alps-murders/4od

    28 days left to view. I watched most of it. Nothing new. Some of the detail was given more depth. A little like the children’s rhyme – ‘Round and round the garden…..’ The aerial view of the house reveals the contents piled up in a heap at the back of the house. A real mess.

    The little girls are still in the care of social services. Especially terrible for them.

  94. Enhancing Privacy or Shattering the Prism

    Most e-mail applications can be made to work with cryptography. Mozilla ‘Thunderbird’ is free software and has easy-to-use cryptography options.

    Thunderbird will run on Linux, Macs and Windows systems. It can be a full replacement or used alongside another mail program (MailApp on Mac or Outlook on Windows).

    On Ubuntu Thunderbird can be installed through the ‘Ubuntu Software Center’ (under the ‘Applications’ menu)

    Mac & Windows users can download ‘Thunderbird’ at: http://mozillamessaging.com/thunderbird/

    For configuring your mail account go to this Help document for Gmail – https://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=180189

    If your mail is running with another provider or system consult their websites.

    For using Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) cryptography or (GPG) with MailApp see http://www.gpgtools.org/gpgmail/index.html. Outlook and various other Windows programs here: http://www.vanheusden.com/pgp.php#plugins

    Mail client setup with Gmail.

    I do not recommend using non-free versions of PGP crypto software because of the impossibility to audit these systems for technical mistakes or hidden back-doors.

    Software – GPG and Enigmal

    The GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) is a free software version of Pretty Good Privacy (PGP). It is already installed by default on all Linux systems.

    Mac Users go here: http://macgpg.sourceforge.net/

    Windows users go here: ftp://ftp.gnupg.org/gcrypt/binary/gnupg-w32cli-1.4.11.exe

    To make using GPG easier in combination with Thunderbird use the Enigmail plugin: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/enigmail/

    Setting up Enigmail is described in detail here: http://enigmail.mozdev.org/documentation/quickstart.php.html

    For more extreme use it is possible to create a whole PC for specific usage on a USB-drive or (micro)SD-card: http://www.gendo.nl/en/content/ubuntu-on-a-stick

    Such a system can be small enough to physically hide and cheap enough to use-and-destroy if the situation warrants it. Using a system-on-a-stick is slower than a normal PC/laptop but for email and light surfing this may not matter that much. The TAILS bootable operating system has the same forefather as Ubuntu (Debian Linux) and is designed for this purpose: https://tails.boum.org/contribute/design/usb_installation/

    Having this on a USB-drive or microSD-card is a really secure option. This will take a bit more effort.

    Using insecure mail services in a secure manner

    Many of us will have a Hotmail, Yahoo or Gmail accounts. Please be aware that the mail-servers of these parties are owned and operated by US companies and usually are on US soil. Therefore the data on them falls under US jurisdiction and various agencies can access your information for various reasons without the need to prove any wrongdoing on your part. When allowing US government agencies access to your information, the companies in question may be blocked from informing you of this fact. More about this here: http://www.gendo.nl/en/blog/arjen/unsuitable

    This limits the range of functions these type of accounts can be used for without using strong crypto for unimportant things.

    Ideally we would all run our own mail-servers and in the future this may be possible; today this requires a much higher level of technical knowledge than most of us have.

    The second best option is to rent capacity on a mail-server with a small provider whose employees you can know and that will look out for your interests. Smaller internet companies in Sweden, Germany and Switzerland seem to taking their clients privacy seriously and these locations have at least some working legal protection for citizens against the state. This will cost something between 5-10 euros per month plus a possible onetime set-up fee.

    The cheapest but least desirable option is to continue to use a service like Gmail but to use it with Crypto for anything important. This requires discipline on your part and on the part of anyone you are communicating with to always use cryptography when communicating about anything important. Another major disadvantage of using Gmail-type services even with crypto is that it allows for analysis of the patterns in your communications (who are are you mailing, when are you mailing them and possibly from what location). This pattern can reveal as much about you and your group as the contents of the mail itself.

    Article with thanks to Annie Machon

  95. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 6:09 pm

    The Hydro opening was rescheduled. Now today there has been a big fire in the roof.

    £125m. Where is the money coming from?

    http://www.clydewaterfront.com/projects/pacific-quay–secc/leisure/secc_arena

  96. Suhayl
    Assad took in millions of Sunni refugees from Iraq.

  97. Nevermind: One thing that pleased me immensely was the introduction of non-means tested, free, healthy school meals with choice and variety for primary school children: universality, available to all without stigmatisation. Successive Labour councils could have introduced this or a variant of it at any time in the last 40 or 50 years to tackle in a small way chronic malnutrition or poor-nutrition in younger children, impacting on their adult lives and health. Measures like this could only have come from the SNP and the Independence supporting Green Party and many small socialist parties that bubble under having inconsistent electoral results but are an accepted and welcome part of the political scene. Nothing could be more responsible than facing this problem and making the necessary decisions to alleviate this, knowing the payoff and result was long term but the need to act had immediate short-term costs and the carping from unionist parties would be and was shameful but would have to be borne and the measure seen through, till established as now irreversible such that anything less than such provision is unthinkable.

    The much referred to McCrone report contains many suggested measures to offset rising support for the SNP and for independence, none of these actions were taken. These include alleviating housing, unemployment and disastrous health issues and high mortality in and around Glasgow and west central Scotland, the McCrone report highlighted these problems as they were acute there but by no means unique to that area or indeed to Scotland alone. Advising that if it was not resolved there would be political consequences for Labour particularly. Instead of taking this advice Labour ignored it, decided to lie about the scale of expected income from oil, cooked the books, pleaded poverty and took an IMF loan with gruesome conditions, quite unnecessarily in order to plead poverty, as a PR stunt, when they knew they were rolling in it, and whilst gutting public sector pay as a further cruelty. Denis Healey has all but admitted this -only very recently, no-one else senior in the Labour Party and none in Scotland dare admit the dastardly games Labour had afoot all through the seventies. It was to Thatcher’s delight in 1979, when she realised the true, sound state of the economy she inherited, but may have been aware, as many Tories must have guessed at Labour’s calculated deception and probably found it an agreeable wheeze. Thatcher worsened the problem, exterminating what industry there was left, preferring a pre-emptive strike against the future viabilty of an independent Scotland, with a savage de-industrialisation, not seen perhaps since the Russian pillaging of their acquired western territories including East Germany, than attempting to alleviate the problems which to her were away in some far foreign Scotland of which she knew nothing and cared less. A start has been made on these issues, but it is only with independence that anything like a solution can be found or is possible, the union precludes, militates against any mitigation.

    Another issue Independence alone can solve or reduce is emigration, net population loss, of the bright and the talented, the desperate and the deprived, driven out and away from their friends and their families, their support networks and their communities, by providing opportunities to stay, to give and to receive and to build the better Scotland that is rising from the union’s dusty bones. No-one likes or would choose unnecessarily the life of a permanent exile without good reason, likewise the experience of exile, of the stranger in a strange town is so recognised and understood here that anyone coming here, visiting here, making a home and a life for themselves and their family in Scotland is eternally welcome.

    I doubt there will ever be conscription, for one thing there is need to maintain such large defence forces, a disproportionate number of Scots serve in UK forces and voluntary recruitment for reformed Scottish services inheriting the traditions of old and recognised formations would be more than adequate for defence and civil needs. Residual-UK might face some shortfall, is having some at present, though it could instead rein in its belligerence and refrain from launching half-cocked into resource grabbing illegal conflicts or having its foreign policy determined by a deranged clique including the US and Israeli far right.

    Scotland is an EU member country, and expects to seamlessly remain so, that doesn’t mean that all is rosy with that institution, the view that reforms are needed is shared by most of the constituent countries peoples, the French the Spanish the Germans the English, all must be who they are, no-one wants a smothering one-size fits all Europe, but a Europe of independent nations like Scotland is what we of each country want and can only but attain.

    The meat on the Independence table is coming, it is being exquisitely prepared for a banquet of delights but the unionist parties and their attack dogs in rage have ground their teeth to the gums and cannot, refuse to, partake; instead offer only the foulest of tired offal.

    Beautiful days like today, that transition from late spring to high summer are like Scotland’s dramatic shift towards self-determination, independence is in the air suddenly, everywhere, people sense it, it assails and delights the senses and the expectation, the anticipation is palpable. Bring on this referendum, it can’t come a moment too soon.

  98. “Assad took in millions of Sunni refugees from Iraq.” Guano.

    Indeed. Good point.

  99. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 7:50 pm

    Mark; I have mixed emotions about anonymizers and encryption (Like my mother in law going off a cliff in my Maserati).

    To me it’s like the lead shields I used to use to protect film from the airport X-ray. All they do is ramp up power until they can see.

    Isn’t it better to get lost in the crowd, versus drawing attention to one’s self?

  100. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 8:29 pm

  101. No desperadoes with the Egyptian sexual-harassment disease. No gun-toting Libyan rebels. No Muslim beards and caps and hijjabs and other symbols. No looting. No sectarian fighting.

    Just tens of thousands of beautiful people where Europe meets Asia. T-shirts and jeans and regular street garb. Protestors gathering, singing, dancing, exchanging, marching for the function of Democracy. And then the brutal police.

    Admirable, inspiring. One can’t help but support these Turkish protestors.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QJvgTG6yTrw

    http://www.vice.com/vice-news/istanbul-rising

  102. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 8:45 pm

    Binney; NSA whistleblower gives new meaning to the word ‘domain’.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/opinion/the-national-security-agencys-domestic-spying-program.html?_r=3&

  103. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 8:53 pm

    Salma Yaqoob was like a breath of fresh air on QT the other night.

    A threat has been made against her and W Midlands Police have a man in custody.

    https://twitter.com/WMPolice/status/343387326417870848

  104. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 9:00 pm

    ” A mathematician, Binney worked for the NSA for almost forty years, where he and analyst Wiebe, who worked at NSA in excess of 30 years, developed a revolutionary information processing system called ThinThread that they believe could have detected and prevented the 9/11 terrorist attacks. But NSA officials ignored ThinThread in favor of Trailblazer – a much more expensive program that not only ended in total failure, but cost taxpayers billions of dollars.

    Worried about the nation’s ability to protect itself, they blew the whistle on the clear mismanagement surrounding the Trailblazer fiasco, using appropriate channels to share their concerns with Congress and the Department of Defense Inspector General (DoD IG). Despite their efforts, no one was held accountable at NSA for one of the worst intelligence failures in history. Little did they know at the time, Binney and Wiebe would face harsh retaliation from NSA for their efforts to make the truth known.

    After the failure of U.S. intelligence to prevent the events of 9/11, the NSA wrongfully applied a component of the ThinThread system to illegally spy on the private communications of U.S. citizens. Unable to stay at the NSA any longer in good conscience, Binney and Wiebe retired in October 2001. After retiring, Binney and Wiebe continued to blow the whistle from outside the agency. GAP provided Binney and Wiebe with legal advice on whistleblowing matters and assisted them with media and public advocacy.”

    http://www.whistleblower.org/program-areas/homeland-security-a-human-rights/surveillance/nsa-whistleblowers-bill-binney-a-j-kirk-wiebe

  105. Kin hell, now the thread has descended into; “Jon do this! and cut that! and Sir, Sir, Sir he is showing his tongue, and spat at me”!!!!!!!

    This reminds of Aziz Nessin and his “an experiment in democracy” short story. The pitiful sight of those reverting to type and based on very little reasoning or none at all; proceeding to table assertion, these being based on their assumptions, and concluding by rounding up with their customary denunciations.

    ================

    It is comical to see the talking heads on the telly, waxing lyrical about; they find unfettered snooping; disturbing! This is of course in the light of the off intelligence (everything has an off these days for the consumers) boss one Sir Malcolm Rifkind has flown to Washington to get his story right and have a quiet word with the chaps about their snooping.

    Meanwhile back at the coalface he has gone on record:

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind, chairman of the parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee, vowed that its inquiry into the attack would reveal whether there were any “defects” in the security service’s work.

    However, he insisted that MI5 was not “in the dock”, after it emerged that the agency knew about Michael Adebolajo, 28, and Michael Adebowale, 22, the men alleged to have killed drummer Lee Rigby, 25, last week. “That would be very unfair,” the former foreign secretary told BBC radio.

    Although the dog and pony show holds: Ministers to reveal British link to US data spying scandal:

    …. UK intelligence agencies have gained access to a vast reservoir of private data relating to people living in Britain – including emails and phone logs – collected by spies at the US National Security Agency.

    Does this vast reservoir of data relate to a vast number of Brits? If so, how vast is this number exactly? ie 30 million? (no Bruce, higher! higher! I hear)

  106. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 9:43 pm

    Passerby; Making the same mistake doesn’t cancel others out. Transcend the acerbic rancor. It’s easy to be overwhelmed by the acrimony; there’s a bumper-crop. Go non-GMO organic. It’s healthy.

  107. doug scorgie

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:01 pm

    Daniel
    7 Jun, 2013 – 2:40 am

    “Sadly, anti-English bigotry and hatred seems to be an ugly by-product of the pro-independence side, and I’ve always felt uneasy about the positions of many of those Scots who espouse overtly nationalist sentiments.”

    There are undoubtedly racist Scots.

    But, “…anti-English bigotry and hatred…an ugly by-product of the pro-independence side”?

    You are a merry Andrew dear chap.

    “I think Fred is right to point out that many on the nationalist side are fomenting anti-English hatred. This is a serious issue that has real consequences for English people living in Scotland and cannot, or should not, be brushed under the carpet.”

    I speak with a Yorkshire accent and have visited Scotland scores of times over decades, from south to north; east to west. I have never experienced anti-English abuse.

    As for the SNP perhaps they should rename as the Scottish Independence Party because many people (like you perhaps) conflate nationalism with racism and exceptionalism which is not what the SNP represents.

  108. Villager
    Habbabkuk earlier being rude and personal about Mary:

    “Relevance of “the well fed face”?

    Do you have to be starving yourself before you’re allowed to talk about the starving?

    Would someone looking at Flaming June’s face conclude that she too eats well and enough?”

  109. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:14 pm

    “Would someone looking at Flaming June’s face conclude that she too eats well and enough?””

    Obama must avoid the’ angry black muslim’ persona at any cost. Thank the God of Moses you make up for it.

  110. “Did you notice the latest poll shows more Scots favour Independence than not? That’s that sorted then isn’t it? ”

    They have the capability to tap every phone call and every fax in the world, have had for a long time, since the 1980s. They called the joint UK and USA program ECHELON and Menwith Hill is a part of it.

    Of course it was illegal for MI5 to be tapping the phones of British citizens without a warrant just as it was illegal for the CIA to tap the phones of Americans. So they just tapped each other’s countries phones then exchanged information.

  111. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:16 pm

    The country that is spending $2billion on the Utah surveillance centre which will require over 60 megawatts of electrical power to run it
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

    has its citizens living on the San Francisco streets with their possessions in black bin bags. And in many other cities too.

    See the photographs. http://linhdinhphotos.blogspot.co.uk/

  112. doug scorgie

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:18 pm

    Fred
    7 Jun, 2013 – 8:11 am

    “The entire Glasgow Council is a bunch of thieves, corrupt to the core, basically an organised crime outfit.”

    “The evidence is overwhelming yet for some reason the Scottish Government keeps blocking investigations.”

    Fred why don’t you make an official written complaint to the police, if you have the evidence?

    If you don’t trust the police try the procurator fiscal.

    Also when you say:

    “The entire Glasgow Council is a bunch of thieves, corrupt to the core, basically an organised crime outfit.”

    That is a very libellous thing to say if you can’t back it up.

  113. Passerby

    I wonder how ordinary people would cope with even the smallest engagement with UK intelligence agents, let alone being sexually assaulted in a Kenyan jail at their behest. A Tory M.P. lost his job because a security police officer didn’t instantly recognise him and was a bit shirty about bringing his bicycle into Downing Street. Being spied on and being visited and pressured by dark, powerful forces is deeply offensive. As usual, Sir Malcolm Rifkind is lying when he exonerates MI5/6.

  114. Hiddencam

    With the exception of yourself. You get off on being secretly filmed by your employers. Bonusses bonusses bonusses.

  115. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:24 pm

    I really don’t understand the sketchy interest in these PRISM disclosures. I realize it’s OT and that Craig is indisposed for understandable reasons, but this is quite a disputative subject and needs your input. I believe if Craig were not impaired he would certainly have created a new thread on this subject. Anyhoo….I’ll shut the fuck up.

  116. OOPs the Quote in my last post should have been:

    “Does this vast reservoir of data relate to a vast number of Brits? If so, how vast is this number exactly? ie 30 million? (no Bruce, higher! higher! I hear)”

  117. Ben Franklin

    In the case of the likes of 9/11 and other false-flag attacks, they clearly did not want a system that could analyse threads.

  118. Flaming June

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:32 pm

    Good one of Fat Dave here.
    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2013/06/commons-confidential-david-dave-and-fat-dave

    Fat Dave presides over a country where half a million families are using food banks while he forces through cuts in the UK which will see 3.4 million children living below the economic poverty line by the end of the decade.*

    Yet he speaks of world hunger today.

    * http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jun/05/britain-faces-colossal-child-poverty-bill

  119. The met have had direct access to BT’s computer system since 2002. And they’ve got a secret fleet of military grade surveillance aircraft.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8857517/Met-Police-spends-millions-of-pounds-on-secret-aircraft.html

  120. “That is a very libellous thing to say if you can’t back it up.”

    Even if there were such a thing as libel that wouldn’t be.

    If I were to say it about an individual council member it would be, if there were such a thing.

    If I as to say their leader was a cocaine addict it wouldn’t be because till 2010 he was.

    The police already know, everybody knows, they keep trying to do something about it but the government won’t let them.

    Read the link I posted, here’s a little snippet.

    Further, more serious allegations have also been made against some of Glasgow’s ‘long time’ party political figures, where it is alleged several councillors & members of one particular political party (guess which one ? – Ed) have “financial & social links to organised crime families” which have been well known to Police for years, yet all attempts by Strathclyde Police to pursue these allegations have allegedly failed due to what one insider referred to as “political based interference from the Crown Office”.

  121. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:45 pm

    Phil; Good to see you.

    This is what happens when MILSPEC means a toilet costs $1000 and a left-handed monkey-wrench is a bargain at $275.

    That budget money isn’t always spent just once.

  122. doug scorgie

    8 Jun, 2013 - 10:47 pm

    Fred
    7 Jun, 2013 – 12:05 pm

    “I don’t ask those supporting Palestine why they hate Jews so much now do I?”

    I support Palestine but I do not hate Jews. I am a member of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and I can tell you that no PSC member is anti-Jewish.

    It is interesting though that you don’t support the Palestinians in their struggle against Israeli ethnic cleansing; land theft; extra-judicial executions; use of white phosphorous on civilians and other war crimes.

    But I just realised that, if you did support the Palestinians you would be anti-Semitic wouldn’t you?

  123. @Doug Scorgie

    Like you, I’m becoming more than a little fed-up with posters who continue to (deliberately?) misunderstand Scotland and those who support its independence. As they appear to conflate ethnic and civic nationalism I’ve decided to post a link of explanation.

    @Fred and friends, read carefully … and take note.

    https://www.msu.edu/user/hillrr/161lec16.htm?iframe=true

  124. doug scorgie

    8 Jun, 2013 - 11:07 pm

    Frazer
    7 Jun, 2013 – 10:30 pm

    “You lot amaze me. When Craig posts that he is under the weather and he cannot walk for less than 200mtrs, you lot continue to bicker, scream like little kids and hijack an interesting post for your pitiful ‘have a go at each other’ stupid comments. My suggestion is that some of you just piss off and start your open blog where you can all drip your poison to your hearts content. I have posted on this blog for 5 years, now I am sadly disillusioned.”

    Frazer, stop moaning and stick to the topic.

  125. @Doug

    Yes, you can support Palestine without hating Jews just as I can point out Nationalist myths, like the one about the bank notes, without desperately wanting Scotland to remain in the Union. Which is exactly the point I was making. The Nationalists could not dispute the facts so they were trying to say I was saying them because I was a Unionist. In short, the Nationalists were using the exact same tactics as the Zionists when someone points out the facts about Palestine.

    As it happens I do support the Palestinian people’s right to self determination, that is a basic human right. I also condemn all the crimes of Israel. I oppose Zionism because it is a Nationalist doctrine just as I would oppose any Palestinian organisation with the same doctrine.

    What is the root cause of all the trouble in Palestine?

  126. @Indigo

    Just loved the “The USA preaches its version of civic nationalism around the world” bit.

    Is that why they’re giving all them cluster bombs to Israel?

  127. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    8 Jun, 2013 - 11:47 pm

    @ The Scourge (22h47) : you wrote

    “..and I can tell you that no PSC member is anti-Jewish.”

    ______________

    Given your track record of – let us say – being economical with the truth (posts passim), why should we take your word for it?

  128. Yes Ben I agree transparency is indeed key and only time is gained by ensuring the recipients are mutually connected by trust. Trust is key. Would you trust a crocodile with the scent of your blood?

    Therefor we must educate ourselves in the mystic world of codes and what better way to learn than to use.

    In a paradigm dominated by commerce we also remember, god willing, the very first code; one dated near 1500 BCE was found to encrypt a craftsman’s recipe for pottery glaze, commercially valuable to ‘zombies’ yet beautifully egonomic and functional to others.

  129. Scott Johnson

    9 Jun, 2013 - 2:19 am

    Fred has gone quiet on the survey showing Independence support ahead.

    Why would the 32% favouring “Devo Max” vote for the status quo?

    Why is Darling getting more desperate by the day?

    Fred’s ‘independent’ polls are as unreliable now as they were unrelaible when they were predicting a Labour win at the 2011 Scottish election.

  130. Scott Johnson

    9 Jun, 2013 - 2:30 am

    Quoting Fred
    7 Jun, 2013 – 8:11 am

    “The entire Glasgow Council is a bunch of thieves, corrupt to the core, basically an organised crime outfit.”

    How did Labour manage to get re-elected in Glasgow in 2012 then?

    I assume you are talking about Labour councillors who are in the majority, because SNP councillors are in the minority and cannot have their way.

  131. @Fred

    8 Jun, 2013 – 11:18 pm

    I don’t know how you can be so right on say 9/11, Israel / Palestine, etc. and so wrong on self determination for the people of Scotland.

    A bit of cognitive dissonance there perhaps!?

  132. Flaming June

    9 Jun, 2013 - 7:02 am

    The latest from the green benches.

    ‘MP Tim Yeo facing committee coaching claim
    Conservative MP Tim Yeo Conservative MP
    Tim Yeo is a former environment minister Continue reading the main story

    Government ‘will reform lobbying’ ( :} )
    Q&A: Political lobbying
    History of political lobbying scandals

    Conservative MP Tim Yeo, who chairs the Commons Energy and Climate Change Committee, is alleged to have used his position to help a private company influence Parliament.

    Sunday Times investigators secretly filmed the former environment minister.

    The paper alleges he coached the boss of a firm, owned by a company that was paying Mr Yeo, before the businessman gave evidence to his committee.

    Mr Yeo denies this, and says he intends to contest all the allegations.’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22830707

    ~~

    Just a fraction of Yeo’s outside earnings.

    Groupe Eurotunnel SA (non-executive) (of which Eurotunnel plc is a wholly owned subsidiary); company managing the Channel Tunnel. Address: Cheriton Parc, Cheriton High Street, Folkestone, Kent, CT19 4QS. My duties as a non-executive director include attendance at meetings of the Board and of the Environment and Safety Committee and advising senior management on a range of issues.

    Received payment of £6,606.05, 10 May 2012. Hours: 9 hrs. (Registered 16 June 2012)

    Received payment of £3,276.54, 16 May 2012. Hours: 5 hrs. (Registered 16 June 2012)

    Received payment of £2,723.95, 4 July 2012. Hours: 4 hrs. (Registered 15 August 2012)

    Received payment of £3,802.28, 26 July 2012. Hours: 6 hrs. (Registered 15 August 2012)

    Received payment of £6005.42, 11 September 2012. Hours: 9 hrs. (Registered 8 October 2012)

    Received payment of £3,906.86, 10 October 2012. Hours: 5 hrs. (Registered 12 November 2012)

    Received payment of £3,419.97. Hours: 5 hrs. (Registered 17 February 2013)

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/tim_yeo/south_suffolk#register

    He registers a shareholding in Eurotunnel who own Europorte who own GB Railfreight. The latter transports biomass from UK ports to power stations.

    The company gave evidence to Yeo’s committee on 24 May and previously on 13 May.

    GBRf puts firm views to Commons committee 24 May 2013
    http://www.gbrailfreight.com/news.php?newsid=1106&

    Drop biomass access charge plan says GBRf 13 May 2013http://www.gbrailfreight.com/news.php?newsid=1103&

    ~~

    Q. Should They Work For You be renamed to They Work for Themselves? The BBC report says ‘”Lobbying – attempting to influence politicians – goes on all the time and is perfectly legitimate,” says BBC political correspondent Chris Mason.

    But he adds: “It’s when allegations of money getting involved, or apparent conflicts of interest emerge, that it can get awkward.”

    It also says ‘In the committee hearing, Mr Yeo publicly excused himself from the questioning because of his acknowledged conflict of interest.’

  133. Flaming June

    9 Jun, 2013 - 7:23 am

    Our water and energy supply continues to be a story of constant sale and acquisition by foreign interests, Thatcher lives.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-07/borealis-led-group-boosts-severn-trent-bid-to-8-22-billion-1-.html

    Note that Severn Water is over a barrel.

    ‘“Severn management have been hanging tough,” Lakis Athanasiou, a utilities analyst at Agency Partners LLP in London, said by phone. “They’ve got no option now but to talk with the bidders. If they turn around and refuse the bid and the bidders walk, you can’t really see the management surviving not having accepted the bid because the share price will plummet over time.” ‘

  134. “Fred’s ‘independent’ polls are as unreliable now as they were unrelaible when they were predicting a Labour win at the 2011 Scottish election.”

    If opinion polls mean nothing then both polls mean nothing.

    I don’t see how either poll was rigged so you have to look and see if both polls could be right. They can. The numbers don’t contradict, both polls can be correct.

  135. Flaming June

    9 Jun, 2013 - 8:51 am

    Another bit of Fat Dave’s cruel agenda.

    Cruel dinners: Hundreds of thousands of children set to lose free school meals
    9 Jun 2013 00:01

    Households with earnings of more than £135 a week are likely to lose out under the PM’s plans to replace most benefits with Universal Credit.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cruel-dinners-hundreds-thousands-children-1941142

  136. “I don’t know how you can be so right on say 9/11, Israel / Palestine, etc. and so wrong on self determination for the people of Scotland.”

    The people of Scotland already have self determination, your attempts to create a false reality are no different to Israel’s attempts to create a false reality about Palestine. Don’t you see that in all the cases the only thing I’m arguing for is truth.

    Don’t you see that when I see people propagating myths like the one about banknotes or the one about the maritime boundaries to further their own cause I have to speak up.

  137. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 9:41 am

    I see that the Old Biddy has – once again – kicked off the day’s posting.

    Firstly she listened to the early morning BBC Radio 4 news broadcast and decided she would let those of us whose first action upon getting up in the morning is not to switch on the radio know all about Mr Tim Yeo. Then she got busy digging up lots of information on some of the money Mr Yeo earns from (perfectly legitimate) activities outside his work as an MP. And all this before 07h02 in the morning!

    Such industry and application! Would that it were deployed to more consructive and useful purpose…….

    ————-

    I notice by the way the her description of the Prime Minister appears to have changed from ‘Agent Cameron’ to ‘Fat Dave’.

    It reminds one of 11 year old schoolchildren pointing their fingers in the playground and taunting others for their looks. Not very dignified, and somewhat immature.

    And I repeat my previous question to Flaming June : does one have to be starving oneself in order to be allowed to call for action against starvation??

  138. @Fred

    9 Jun, 2013 – 8:59 am

    Yeah, I’m right,cognitive dissonance!

    Under the present constitutional ‘settlement’ the people of Scotland do not have self determination over UK reserved matters, and are subject to government by political parties they have not elected.

  139. And, and, and Fred, heaven forbid, if that dreadful Eughkip continues to gain traction in the shires of England, things can only get worse for the the peoples of the Celtic fringe.

  140. Fred said “The people of Scotland already have self determination ”

    Could Scotland have stayed out of the Iraq war? Can Scotland stay in the EU if England votes to leave in a future referendum?

  141. @Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    8 Jun, 2013 – 6:39 am

    Oh no, say it ain’t true.

    Who is Werritty, where is Werritty, what was Atlantic Bridge???

    The Ffocs needs to be shot again imho. I declare the hunting season open again!

  142. “Could Scotland have stayed out of the Iraq war? Can Scotland stay in the EU if England votes to leave in a future referendum?”

    Could Wales? Could Cornwall, Could Norfolk? Could Milton Keynes?

    As have frequently pointed out, when we declared war on Iraq the leaders of all three political parties were Scots. If anyone didn’t have self determination it was the rest of Britain.

    A Scot gets to vote just the same as every other person in Britain.

  143. Glad you agree that Scotland doesn’t have self determination Fred.
    Thanks for admitting it.

  144. Habbabkuk (La Vita È Bella!)
    8 Jun, 2013 – 9:21 pm

    LOL Habba. Brilliant laugh!

  145. Flaming June

    9 Jun, 2013 - 10:45 am

    There is an empty chair at Murnaghan on Sky News.

    Yeo-Yeo pulled out. How cowardly.

  146. Flaming June

    9 Jun, 2013 - 10:49 am

    We are always being told by the shills for Israel about the technical prowess of ‘the little democracy in the Middle East’.

    What was the Israeli Involvement in Collecting U.S. Communications Intel for NSA?
    Israeli high-tech firms Verint and Narus have had connections with U.S. companies and Israeli intelligence in the past, and ties between the countries’ intelligence agencies remain strong.

    By Haaretz, The Associated Press and Reuters

    June 08, 2013 “Information Clearing House – “Haaretz” – Were Israeli companies Verint and Narus the ones that collected information from the U.S. communications network for the National Security Agency?

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35215.htm

    If you have Zionist firms installing the very high speed, high capacity gear – then assume they are central in driving its use and running it.

  147. “Glad you agree that Scotland doesn’t have self determination Fred.
    Thanks for admitting it.”

    You know Juteman it’s fanaticism such as that which convinces me the Scottish Nationalist is no different to every other Nationalist.

    And it’s the fact that being equal just isn’t good enough for them which frightens me.

  148. I only want Scotland to have equal powers to every other country, Fred.
    If you think that is fanaticism, then I can’t help how your mind works.

  149. @Fred

    “Just loved the “The USA preaches its version of civic nationalism around the world” bit.

    Is that why they’re giving all them cluster bombs to Israel”?

    I know … I know … it’s awful … but it seemed dishonest to edit the link and it was the only one I found that gave a reasonably concise ‘compare and contrast’ general definition.

    But shame about the countries used as examples …

    We can agree about Israel/Palestine though.

  150. @Fred

    9 Jun, 2013 – 10:08 am

    If you can’t see the fallacious nature of your argument I’m sorry for you.

    This is a classic red herring, and doesn’t answer the case for self determination for Scotland, and for that matter Wales and Cornwall to remedy the democratic deficit caused by the present constitutional ‘settlement’ of the United Kingdom.

  151. Villager

    Hambuttocks thinks his rear end is a post-box for a blog called Craig Murray.org. If anyone writes an incisive analysis of institutional corruption and greed he quickly posts a self-rumptuous repost. Nearly 1 million flatuous remarks are already piled up inside. “Aroint thee witch the rump-fed ronyon cries.”

  152. doug scorgie

    9 Jun, 2013 - 11:27 am

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    8 Jun, 2013 – 11:47 pm

    “Given your track record of – let us say – being economical with the truth (posts passim), why should we take your word for it?”

    Again Halfacake, you make statements without the backing of references. Why should anyone take your word for anything?

    “posts passim” is just not acceptable.

  153. “I only want Scotland to have equal powers to every other country, Fred.
    If you think that is fanaticism, then I can’t help how your mind works.”

    They already do.

    Take for example student tuition fees, they were introduced in England and Wales by the last Labour government, the vote was close, 316 votes for 311 against. If it hadn’t been for the 5 SNP MPs voting in favour the bill wouldn’t have passed, in all 46 Scottish MPs voted for the bill. Yet in Scotland there are no student tuition fees.

    I’m not complaining about that, it’s all a part of living in a democracy, these things happen from time to time. What I an complaining about is fanatical Nationalists winging about not having any self determination. Try telling a Palestinian Scots don’t have self determination they’ll laugh in your face.

  154. “If you can’t see the fallacious nature of your argument I’m sorry for you.”

    I think the confusion might arise over the definition of “self determination”.

    Hint, it doesn’t mean being able to tell everybody else what to do.

  155. Scotland isn’t a country in your view Fred, just a region of the UK?
    I’m glad you cleared that up.

  156. Is Scotland a member of the UN, Fred?
    If it was, maybe it could help the Palestinians.

  157. “Scotland isn’t a country in your view Fred, just a region of the UK?
    I’m glad you cleared that up.”

    Scotland is a country and a region of the UK.

    The UK has many regions, parishes, towns, counties, countries.

  158. “Is Scotland a member of the UN, Fred?
    If it was, maybe it could help the Palestinians.”

    Earlier in the thread I asked what was the root cause of the problems in Palestine. No one has answered.

  159. Flaming June

    9 Jun, 2013 - 12:14 pm

    Villager

    9 Jun, 2013 – 10:40 am

    Habbabkuk (La Vita È Bella!)
    8 Jun, 2013 – 9:21 pm

    LOL Habba. Brilliant laugh!

    ~~

    So funny that it has been removed?

  160. Is Scotland a member of the UN, Fred?

  161. Flaming June

    9 Jun, 2013 - 12:21 pm

    If arson, how wicked. The lives of 128 children and staff were put at risk.

    ‘Suspicious’ Fire At Islamic Boarding School
    12:14pm UK, Sunday 09 June 2013

    Some 128 pupils and staff have been evacuated after a “suspicious” fire broke out at an Islamic boarding school in London.

    Police were called to the Darul Uloom School, in Foxbury Avenue, Chislehurst, at 11.50pm on Saturday.

    Two people were treated for smoke inhalation and 10% of the building was damaged during the blaze.

    Sky News’ Charlotte Lomas said there would be a police update around 2pm, “which does suggest, perhaps that this fire was deliberate”.

    It follows a rise in religious hatred crimes after the killing of Drummer Lee Rigby in Woolwich last month.

    Last week, a Somali cultural centre and mosque was burned to the ground in Muswell Hill, north London, and the letters “EDL” – the initials of the English Defence League – were found scrawled on the outside.

    More follows…
    http://news.sky.com/story/1101313/suspicious-fire-at-islamic-boarding-school

  162. “Is Scotland a member of the UN, Fred?”

    Of course they are, all of the UK is a member of the UN.

    The UN even has offices in the UK, Edinburgh to be precise.

  163. @Fred

    “If it hadn’t been for the 5 SNP MPs voting in favour the bill wouldn’t have passed …”

    You really shouldn’t attempt to change history when making claims in support of your argument – you end up negating it (and looking like a dishonest prat to boot).

    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuition_fees_in_the_United_Kingdom

    “In all 46 Scottish Labour MPs voted with the government with the 5 SNP and 10 Liberal Democrat MPs representing constituencies in Scotland voting against”.

    Now … which way did the 5 SNP MPs vote?

  164. Mary,

    Pity that it has been removed, along with my recommendation to Jon that the following post by your apparent ‘supporter’, Guano be removed, but still stands:

    “Guano
    8 Jun, 2013 – 4:45 pm
    HairyBaboon

    Can you explain to me please the relevance of your big red bottom.”

    Unless you respond otherwise, can one imply that this remark meets with your approval and/or sense of humour?

    Guano’s remark was unprovoked, out of the blue, and followed Frazer’s and Jon’s observations. Poor judgment or misuse of the comments section?

  165. @Indig

    I stand corrected, you are of course right.

    It doesn’t alter the fact that the vote was decided by Scottish MPs though does it?

  166. @Fred

    No, it doesn’t … to the almighty shame of the Labour party and the MPs in question.

    Yet another betrayal of the constituents and voters they are supposed to represent and the professed ‘values’ of a party that once had a claim to be socialist.

  167. Black is white.

  168. @Fred

    9 Jun, 2013 – 11:40 am

    I am not confused by the meaning of self determination, but you obviously are!

    Ergo, there is no warrant for any of your claims and your arguments are fatally flawed.

    Yes, Scotland! And soon Wales, and Kernow!

  169. “I am not confused by the meaning of self determination, but you obviously are!”

    So explain to me your definition of self determination.

    In your definition should Scotland become independent would Orkney have self determination? Or would they be bound by laws passed by those on the mainland?

  170. “Black is white”

    Deeper in denial than an Egyptian skin diver.

  171. “No, it doesn’t … to the almighty shame of the Labour party and the MPs in question. ”

    As I said, it’s all a part of being a democracy, when a vote is close everyone has control. Back in 1979 11 SNP MPs had direct control over the direction Britain would take, they voted for Margaret Thatcher and gave us 18 years of Tory rule.

    That is how democracies work, it might be ugly at times but for one section of the community to claim the system doesn’t give them self determination is just ludicrous.

  172. Thanks for your comprehensive reply Cryptonym.

    Do you, and many others, expect that Scottish Independence will change the status of its people from Royal subjects to citizens with a set of citizens rights?

  173. @Fred

    “… but for one section of the community to claim the system doesn’t give them self determination is just ludicrous”.

    The last time Scots voters voted for Tory government was in 1955.

    No, not ludicrous … true.

  174. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 2:41 pm

    @ Flaming June

    I’m happy to report that the post of mine to which Villager was kind enough to refer is still there for the greater edification of readers including your good self.

    It was posted at 09h41 (not 09h21)

    ******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  175. @Nevermind

    “Do you, and many others, expect that Scottish Independence will change the status of its people from Royal subjects to citizens with a set of citizens rights”?

    From Wiki:

    “On 1 January 1983, upon the coming into force of the British Nationality Act 1981, every Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies became … a British Citizen …
    The use of the term “British subject” was discontinued for all persons who fell into these categories …
    British Citizens are not British Subjects under the 1981 Act …
    Although the term “British subject” now has a very restrictive statutory definition in the United Kingdom, and it would therefore be incorrect to describe a British citizen as a British subject, the concept of a “subject” is still recognised by the law, and the terms “the Queen’s subjects”, “Her Majesty’s subjects”, etc., continue to be used in British legal discourse”.

    Whether Scottish citizens therefore would or wouldn’t be appears to depend on whether the Queen would remain Head of State … thus one for the politicians to decide and the lawyers to argue!

  176. Habbabkuk

    I think that the post that Villager was lauging at was posted on 8 Jun, 2013 – 9:21 pm, and was your reply to Guano? And it does seem to have been removed, although Guano’s “red bottom” post is still there.

  177. Did anyone see William Hague on the BBC saying how if we could only see what GCHQ was up to we would be ‘enormously reassured’. But of course, alas, we can’t because their work is secret. It’s funny, I’ve tried and tried but just can’t seem to feel ‘reassured’. It reminded me of Blair saying if we could only see the intelligence he had seen we would have no doubts about going to war with Iraq. Hands up those who woud buy a used car from William Hague or Tony Blair.

  178. Billy fourteen pints pontificates:

    The only people with anything to fear from the secret activities of British and US intelligence are terrorists, criminals and spies, William Hague has insisted.

    This is the kind of bullshit that ye olde USSR used to hold onto, and they were always roundly condemned as abusers of the human rights.

  179. “The last time Scots voters voted for Tory government was in 1955.

    No, not ludicrous … true.”

    Yes, there are other areas of Britain which lean to one side or the other and some which just float about.

    That’s democracy.

  180. Nevermind: I’m certainly not a monarchist. Whether to junk the whole royal shebang, lock stock and barrel should be decided by a referendum. Without the media and without the BBC in particular, ramming these parasites down our throats every five minutes, interest in them would quickly wane and the many skeletons in their closets would become common knowledge (look there’s another one). If a vote goes yes, then anything they own, their personal fortunes which have been plundered from this country and around the world over centuries should be stripped, leaving them with not much more than the shirts on their backs. That is about as far as I would go, they do have human rights and torture, murder is wrong.

    Fred (the incandescent) still believes there was then (in 1979) some smidgen of a difference between Labour and Tory parties, would have us believe they’re not simply rival ‘brands’ of an all-controlling secret state and moneyed elite, that held the people and voters in utter contempt and disdain. The SNP by 1979 had long figured out this con-trick and simply wasn’t going to play along with the silly games of Britain’s sham pseudo-democracy a moment longer.

  181. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 3:02 pm

    Whoops, you’re right, my post of yesterday 21h21 WAS removed.

    I protest at this unjustified censorship by whoever removed it and after repeating its essence hereafter challenge the moderator to explain why it was removed, his criteria for deeming a post offensive (of that was the reason for its removal) and whether he applies those critera in an impartial manner to everyone.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    1/. Flaming June, in a post about David Cameron making a speech about the 1 billion starving people in the world, described him as having a “well-fed face” and, presumably on that basis, accused him of bein a hypocrite.

    2/. My post, issued in response, asked 3 questions :

    a) what was the relevance of that description of the Prime Minister’s face to the rest of F.J.’s comment

    b) does someone have to be starving him/herself in order to be able legitimately to make a speech about starvation

    c) whether F.J.’s face might not also, to an outsider, appear fell-fed and non-starving (the point of this question was to suggest, satirically but gently, that physical descriptions were all in the eye of the beholder and therefore irrelevant to the thrust of any following argument. Perhaps this was too subtle for the moderator – if so, I shall endeavour to be blunter next time).

    So could whoever deleted my post explain his/her objections to any one or more of those three questions?

    Thank you.

  182. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 3:13 pm

    @ Moderator :

    Possibly a second whoops…..

    Dreoilin’s post, above, makes we wonder which post pf mine was actually deleted : was it to one to Flaming June or the one in reply to the Great Excrement, in which I pointed out that if my bottom, described as big and red by Guano, were capable of human speech its pronouncements would make a lot more sense than most of those from the said Guano

    That’s the problem – too many posts (so much nonsense to point to) and too many people attacking poor old/young Habbabkuk!

    Anyway, none of my posts should be deleted because they are unparalleled in their excellence and to-the-point-ness (I made up that last word).

    ****************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  183. Habbabkuk

    Don’t worry, posts are never really deleted anymore. GCHQ will have a record :)

  184. Good one, KoWN

  185. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 3:29 pm

    Definitely a second whoops and APOLOGIES to the moderator for having got the wrong post. (I should have checked better).

    In reparation for which I shall not ask him to explain why he DID delete my spirited and witty response to Guano (especially since I have repeated its essence in a post of a few minutes ago).

  186. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 3:33 pm

    @ KingofWelshNoir) :

    “Habbabkuk

    Don’t worry, posts are never really deleted anymore. GCHQ will have a record”
    ———-

    That’s quite a relief! I was rather counting on my response to Guano to help me along the road to being awarded a gong – a FUG, in fact – in due course (for the uninitiated, that’s short for For Undermining Guano)

  187. @Fred

    “Yes, there are other areas of Britain which lean to one side or the other and some which just float about.

    That’s democracy”.

    But Scotland is the only “area” of Britain (apart from England) that is a “Kingdom” – as attested by her separate legal system.

    The citizens of said kingdom will, in 2014, thus be able to exercise their democratic right to vote for their independence (or not) from that cesspit called Westminster and the truly undemocratic representation enjoyed by Scottish citizens there.

  188. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 3:37 pm

    ……and while this is all going on……Flaming June, like her beloved Brer Rabbit, is lying low and saying nuffin’……no doubt scanning the air waves and the internet…..to regale us, in the fullness of time,…..with another tasty morsel about David Cameron or similar hound-dogs from Hell.

    I can’t wait!

  189. In fact, you don’t need to worry about losing data anymore, or backing it up to Dropbox, the NSA are doing it for you.

    According to whistleblower William Binney their Narus recording systems (of which there are 18 or so around the US) can each record 10 gigabytes of data – the equivalent of a million and a quarter emails with 1,000 characters each – per second.’

    (Source, Washington’s Blog.)

    The new facitility opening in September will be the Biggie:

    ‘Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter.”’

    (Source Wired magazine.)

    I can’t remember the last time I felt to reassured.

  190. “The citizens of said kingdom will, in 2014, thus be able to exercise their democratic right to vote for their independence (or not) from that cesspit called Westminster and the truly undemocratic representation enjoyed by Scottish citizens there.”

    Scots citizens get just as much democracy as anyone else, if not more.

    I’ve nothing against a referendum, I just think the electorate should be informed. Should Scotland become independent those who now get elected to Westminster will no doubt stand for election at Holyrood.

  191. KingofWelshNoir
    9 Jun, 2013 – 3:17 pm

    LOL again. Another brilliant rejoinder; as good as Habba’s repartee.
    ——

    Dreolin, thanks for playing catalyst and pointing out to Habbakuk.
    ——

    Habba, no you didn’t, ‘ness’ is a scottish word isn’t it — thank you for bringing us all back on topic. As for the FUG, fuggedaboutit, Guano walks away with the Gong with his long arms and hands down — he undermines himself with great excellence….without any help required from you!

  192. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 4:42 pm

    Greenwald was on This Week this morning along with Feinstein and Rogers;

    Greenwald was outstanding. He says, or suggests there may be more than one whistleblower, and he definitely HA MORE.

    Feinstein invoked the two successes including Headly. Of course, that was in connection with Mumbai. She didn’t mention that.
    I think Mumbai was not a successful effort to stop terrorism.

    BTW; Feinstein and Rogers think the WB or WB’s should be prosecuted…suprise !!!

  193. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 4:42 pm

    ‘HAS MORE”

  194. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 4:45 pm

  195. @Fred 9 Jun, 2013 – 1:40 pm

    Google it yourself!

    .

  196. @Fred

    “I’ve nothing against a referendum, I just think the electorate should be informed. Should Scotland become independent those who now get elected to Westminster will no doubt stand for election at Holyrood”.

    Well, Fred, why not offer your services to one of the groups now campaigning (Better Together?) I’m sure your time would be better spent ‘informing the electorate’ by that means than trying to convince bloggers on this site of your well-meaning desire to inform them – especially when that desire to ‘inform’ consistently slanders Scots in general and Scottish Nationalists in particular by accusing them of entertaining feelings of anti-English hatred and bigotry.

    Or, better still, why not try to do something about the Westminster government. The whole problem starts with the lack of democratic accountability at Westminster. Why don’t you start by doing something about our FPTP electoral system … then the system of whipping. Eliminate those little problems and electors in no matter which region, principality or kingdom of these isles should enjoy some increase in democratic rights.

    That should go some way towards redressing the balance of what you term ‘more democracy’ for Scots citizens.

  197. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    9 Jun, 2013 - 4:48 pm

    David Headley…double-agent?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhV2sUiC6jo

  198. It certainly does seem that the ongoing corrupt rottenness at the heart of the Westminster system, in politics, media, finance and the security industry and legal system is incapable of being reformed from within.

    Mary exposes this with her every post, especially those which quote the BBC’s increasingly embarrassing efforts in protecting our criminal elites.

    No wonder she’s subject to ongoing and vitriolic attack. Ignore it Mary. It just means you’re doing a good job.

    These Westminster bosses are well hunkered down, determined to protect their privileges, violently if necessary, no matter what the cost to everyone else. This is endgame, and they know it.

    The only thing left is for those who can, to escape the stinking rotting mess. Reform is no longer possible.

    Many individuals are doing this by emmigration. Others withdraw from public life, to quiet contemplation.

    The Scots can end their nightmare with simply a vote.

    Scots independence will have the additional benefit of forcing the English to question their own allegiance to Westminster’s elites.

    Everyone wins.

    Freedom is good.

    Life is sweet.

  199. @Indigo

    Why don’t you stop telling me what to do.

    Is it not possible for a Nationalist to just discuss the subject without passing judgements on the person discussing it? Scotland isn’t a dictatorship yet you know.

  200. “The Scots can end their nightmare with simply a vote.”

    Except the Scottish government is at least as corrupt as the Westminster one.

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted by Expathos