Teaser

by craig on March 10, 2014 7:26 pm in Uncategorized

Alarm at Russian expansion had at this time caused a flurry of British intelligence activity.  Russia was fighting a tremendous spirit of resistance in its newly conquered territories in the Caucasus, and in a secret service operation Palmerston sent a British ship, the Vixen, into the Black Sea in 1836 to run arms to Chechen resistance fighters there.  It caused a diplomatic incident when the ship was intercepted by Russian forces, but Palmerston sent an assurance to Russian foreign minister Count Nesselrode that the British government had no knowledge of the venture – just as Nesselrode was to assure Palmerston two years later that the Russian government had not authorised Witkiewicz’ mission to Kabul.  Both men were highly accomplished liars.

I am still working very hard indeed on Sikunder Burnes: Master of the Great Game and I thought you might enjoy that paragraph as a little teaser, given its contemporary relevance.  The world hasn’t really changed that much in the intervening 180 years.

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94 Comments

  1. That’s the ‘terror of the situation’ Craig. The ‘elite’ of this world have been pulling the same kind of shit that makes for a fucked up world for longer than anyone can even imagine.

  2. Seems to me that the nationality, office, and the sex of the liars has changed, though the response time is faster and more powerful now.

    I am thinking of Condi Rice, GW’s National Security Adviser, and her lies about the Russian takeover of South Ossetia when it was Georgia’s President Saakasvili who tried to do it, but Putin’s forces managed to get to the southern exit to the tunnel under the Caucasus before the Georgians did.

    She is heating up the rhetoric now about what the Russian President is up to.

    Still: Putin 2, West 0

  3. Palmerston : What the hell right did he have to do any of this? Another filthy imperialist.

  4. Resident Dissident

    10 Mar, 2014 - 8:21 pm

    Putin’s lie that there are no Russian troops in Crimea is hardly highly accomplished – perhaps brazen would be a better description?

  5. Res Diss

    “Putin’s lie that there are no Russian troops in Crimea is hardly highly accomplished – perhaps brazen would be a better description?”

    Did Putin say that?

    Seems strange, given that there’s a garrison there of something like 15,000 serving the Black Sea Fleet, and they’re entitled to have 25,000.

    You’re a bit confused.

  6. “That’s the ‘terror of the situation’ Craig. The ‘elite’ of this world have been pulling the same kind of shit that makes for a fucked up world for longer than anyone can even imagine.”

    Yeh. I was reading a quote by Samuel Johnson the other day “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel”. It was puzzling at first, Johnson is known to have been a patriot. Then I realised if you substitute the word “psychopath” for the word “scoundrel” it makes perfect sense and could apply equally as well today.

  7. Re: “The world hasn’t really changed that much in the intervening 180 years.”

    One difference is that Russia is a huge nuclear power; therefor risking war these days is rather more serious than it was in Palmerston’s time.

    A second difference is that Palmerston saw Russia as a threat to (then) British India and sought to provide diversions in the caucuses as part of the great game. Rightly or wrongly he probably thought that he was serving British Interests. I can’t see what Britain and Canada think they have to gain today where there is no vital British or Canadian interest involved. Indeed Mr. Putin’s Russia has been remarkably benign compared to the old Soviet Union or Tsarist Russia, and change in my view – given Russian history – is more likely to be for the worse than for the better.

  8. @Craig – Out of interest, have you read Le Carré’s Our Game? Big Caucasus theme. He’s very clued-in as usual.

    Elsewhere in that heterogenous area (in which Dagestan is especially heterogeneous), there is the republic of Kalmykia.

    Until 2010, Kalmykia was reigned over by billionaire President Ilyumzhinov, who makes it clear in his autobiography (which may still be online) that he models himself on Hitler without the racism (sic). He is of course a mega-crook. He’s also an interesting combination of craziness and intelligent statecraft.

    He’s Buddhist but like ‘Prince’ Charles he seems to want to be head of all religions. (Nazarbaybev in Kazakhstan seems to have given up his ambitions in that department. Big Brit architecture contracts for the pyramid etc. though.)

    Like Klitschko in the Ukraine, Ilyumzhinov too was a champion boxer. Of course one has to recognise that unlike in Georgia and Chechenia, at least there hasn’t been war in Kalmykia, which is of course a good thing.

    A lot of the local leaders in far-flung places in the Russian Federation were on the plane a lot to and fro to Moscow in earlier incarnations and put a lot of stock on, er, ‘order’ and good relations with the centre.

    Problems then arise when you get some complete cunt like Berezovsky who played a major role in stoking war in Chechenia so as to line his filthy pockets. (There’s a good story about Berezovsky in Ilyumzhinov’s autobiography.) Similarly Western interests deliberately started war in Libya after they’d already taken over the fucking country. At least it hasn’t been as prolonged as in Chechenia.

    Ilyumzhinov is still head of the World Chess Federation FIDE.

    Some parallels could be drawn with Nazarbayev the dictator of Kazakhstan, although in his case there’s someone called Alexander Mashkevitch who owns enormous interests in Kazakhstan and probably sees Nazarbayev as a useful idiot.

    As you know, Nazarbayev was once on the Politburo of the USSR, a fact which many people in Kazakstan are unaware of. Mashkevitch, a Jew from Kyrgyzstan, is now described in the Brit press as a “London-based Israeli businessman”. Ho hum. Like many other oligarchs from the former Soviet area, he’s not only Jewish but he has held important positions in official Jewish organisations.

  9. “One difference is that Russia is a huge nuclear power; therefor risking war these days is rather more serious than it was in Palmerston’s time.”

    Yet there were those in the American government during the Cold War who did advocate nuclear war. There argument was that if one side were to strike first, massively and with no warning whatsoever, then they would probably end up with some of their country intact while the other would be totally destroyed. Therefore America should be the one to do it before Russia did.

    What is more worrying is theses people went on to achieve positions of power and one of them, Dick Cheney, is calling for military action against Russia in Crimea.

  10. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 9:26 pm

    From N_

    “Mashkevitch, a Jew from Kyrgyzstan, is now described in the Brit press as a “London-based Israeli businessman”. Ho hum. Like many other oligarchs from the former Soviet area, he’s not only Jewish but he has held important positions in official Jewish…”
    _______________________

    Only about 8 comments in and we’re off already!

    Question to Eminences and others : is a Jewish Russian oligarch better or worse than a non-Jewish Russian oligarch? Answers on a postcard please.

    *****************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  11. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 9:29 pm

    From Fred, branching out from Scottish independence into Cold War issues

    “Yet there were those in the American government during the Cold War who did advocate nuclear war.”
    ___________________

    Correct, and their arguments did not win the day.

    Relevance to anything in particular?

  12. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 9:34 pm

    Hurby

    Res Diss

    ““Putin’s lie that there are no Russian troops in Crimea is hardly highly accomplished – perhaps brazen would be a better description?”

    Did Putin say that?

    Seems strange, given that there’s a garrison there of something like 15,000 serving the Black Sea Fleet, and they’re entitled to have 25,000.”
    ____________________

    Serving the Black Sea fleet, not surrounding Ukrainian army barracks and Ukrainian airfields, beating up Ukrainian govt supporters, preventing an OSCE observer mission from entering what is still Ukrainian territory, etc, etc, etc.

    ************************

    “Life is getting better, life is getting merrier! (J. Stalin, ca. 1932)

  13. “From Fred, branching out from Scottish independence into Cold War issues”

    Look shit for brains you don’t even know what my opinions on Scottish independence are. All you know is what the Nationalist keep saying they are so they can pretend I have an ulterior motive for telling the truth.

    So crawl back under your stone.

  14. 1) The Brits secretly supplied weapons to “Chechen resistance fighters” in 1836.

    2) “The world hasn’t really changed that much in the intervening 180 years.

    You’re not suggesting…?

    Well Britain does support Akhmed Zakayev, current Prime Minister of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, who lives in London despite being wanted on terrorism charges and who sat on the rebel Chechen cabinet alongside Shamil Basayev, the butcher of Beslan.

    I’m thinking here of how the British SAS trained the Khmer Rouge in the 1980s.

    (@Habby: your racism – or maybe you’re just a JTRIGger pretending, but what do I care? – makes you look completely absurd. You just have to put your fists up whenever anyone says anything negative about anyone who’s Jewish and who’s involved in an ethnically based crime ring, don’t you? What on earth is wrong with someone like that? Did you have any human values even when you were a small child?)

  15. “The world hasn’t really changed that much in the intervening 180 years.”

    Indeed, its still as corrupt as it always has been, but, the scale gets ever bigger.

    http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/compilation-of-parliamentary-financial.html

  16. The world will bloody well change in the next 180 years unless we can do something about global warming.

  17. Craig,

    You are very good at linking the historical patters to contemporaneity.

    When intellect is married to practical life experiences – you are not a bad chap after all.

    Now kneel and arise – Sir Murray.

    LOL
    CB

  18. Found this in the link I put on above.

    “18. Liam Fox – Conservative MP – became shadow health secretary in 1999 – employs Adam Werrity as a paid intern in 2004 – by this time Adam Werrity becomes a director of health consultancy firm ‘UK Health Ltd’ (now dissolved), while Liam Fox was shadow health secretary of which he and Liam Fox were shareholders. Werrity owned 11.5% of UK Health Group and Fox owned 2.3%. In 2005 a researcher based in Mr Fox’s office worked ‘exclusively’ for the now closed Atlantic Bridge ‘charity’, which Liam Fox was the founding member; Mr Werrity became director, and which had links to radical right-wing neocons in the U.S. The researcher received funding from Pfizer Inc. He claimed ‘she has no function in any health role.’ The researcher was Gabby Bertin, who is now David Cameron’s press secretary. Received £5,000 to run his private office in October 2012 from investment company IPGL limited, who purchased healthcare pharma company Cyprotex.”

  19. Sorry – just saw this ” historical patters” – “patterns”.

    Only human.

    CB

  20. Some things haven’t changed much since 1555, i.e. British enthusiasm for trade with Russia.

  21. Resident Dissident

    10 Mar, 2014 - 10:25 pm

    Herbie

    It’s you that is confused – here’s the lie as reported on his own propaganda channel 6 days ago:

    “Putin dismissed the notion that the uniformed armed people without insignia who are currently present in Crimea are Russian soldiers.”

    http://rt.com/news/putin-statement-ukraine-russia-743/

  22. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 10:28 pm

    Fred

    “you don’t even know what my opinions on Scottish independence are.”
    _____________________

    Don’t talk crap. By the way you dump on every argument in favour, you’re obviously against.

  23. The Vixen was built in Yarmouth, not far from where Craig was born.

  24. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 10:35 pm

    N_

    “You just have to put your fists up whenever anyone says anything negative about anyone who’s Jewish”
    ________________

    Not at all. I just feel impelled to kick the arse of someone who makes a point – of no relevance to the main story – of lovingly identifying someone he doesn’t like as being Jewish.

    If this bloke you were commenting about were Buddist or aHindu, I don’t think you’d bother to mention his religion.

  25. “Putin dismissed the notion that the uniformed armed people without insignia who are currently present in Crimea are Russian soldiers.”

    That could well be true.

    In the Iraq ar America circumvented the law by using mercenaries, soldiers but not technically American soldiers. Blackwater as they were called then.

    It’s not implausible that Russia decided that if America can do it so can they.

  26. “Michael Smith, the author of Six: A History of Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service (2010), has argued that MI6 officers based in Russia, were involved in developing a plot to assassinate Rasputin. Giles Milton, argues in Russian Roulette: How British Spies Thwarted Lenin’s Global Plot (2013), that the original idea came from Samuel Hoare, the head of the British Secret Intelligence Service in Petrograd. Hoare believed that Rasputin was sabotaging the Russian war effort and if he was murdered “the country would be freed from the sinister influence that was striking down its natural leaders and endangering the success of its armies in the field.” Richard Cullen, the author of Rasputin: The Role of Britain’s Secret Service in his Torture and Murder (2010), claims that agents Oswald Rayner, John Scale and Stephen Alley were involved in the plot.”

    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSrasputin.htm

  27. ‘The Revolution that Shook the World’ certainly had a ‘bird’s eye view’ – an oleaginous narrative and film. Essentially dark on gore, the view was psychologically ubiquitous and subliminally powerful it was a first class act in deception, expectedly much better than the latest Russian attempt.

    ..and I contributed?

  28. Resident Dissident

    10 Mar, 2014 - 10:37 pm

    “1) The Brits secretly supplied weapons to “Chechen resistance fighters” in 1836.

    2) “The world hasn’t really changed that much in the intervening 180 years.”

    If you had read Tolstoy’s Hadji Murad you’d know that that Putin’s attitude towards Chechenya had changed little from the Tsarist authorities in those days.

  29. “Don’t talk crap. By the way you dump on every argument in favour, you’re obviously against.”

    You are obviously a shit for brained moron retard.

    So don’t tell me what my opinions are dick head and don’t go broadcasting your delusions about me around around this blog because you just don’t have a clue.

    Got that? Talk about me and you get a flame war.

    Now fuck off.

  30. Resident Dissident

    10 Mar, 2014 - 10:44 pm

    “Problems then arise when you get some complete cunt like Berezovsky who played a major role in stoking war in Chechenia so as to line his filthy pockets.”

    While I can agree with this assessment of Berezovsky – perhaps you might wish to apply the same description to Putin who did his own little bit towards stoking up another war in Chechenya?

  31. Resident Dissident

    10 Mar, 2014 - 10:50 pm

    “Putin dismissed the notion that the uniformed armed people without insignia who are currently present in Crimea are Russian soldiers.”

    “That could well be true.”

    But it isn’t – funny he had a mercenary force just ready to go. There is plenty of evidence around that the force is made up of Russian regulars if you care to look.

  32. Someone: curious that Sir Paul Dukes didn’t make any mention of it. In fact with Dukes there might be quite a bit in what he chose not to speak of, or changed the appearance of. Although not now in print he is worth reading and he clearly found a great deal of what he was looking for in Russia.

  33. Great teaser. I’m looking forward to this book when it is published.

    Perhaps even more pertinent is Tennyson’s ‘Charge of the Light Brigade’ at the Battle of Balaclava (1854). Yes, we’ve been there before. As with Afghanistan we have never learnt, but that was a particular mistake, like our adherence as pawns to US foreign policy. The US does not mind how many British troops die in its pursuit of world domination. It will be more than 600.

    Flash’d all their sabres bare,
    Flash’d as they turn’d in air,
    Sabring the gunners there,
    Charging an army, while
    All the world wonder’d:
    Plunged in the battery-smoke
    Right thro’ the line they broke;
    Cossack and Russian
    Reel’d from the sabre stroke
    Shatter’d and sunder’d.
    Then they rode back, but not
    Not the six hundred.

  34. Fred 8.41pm

    Any fool knows what Johnson really meant was that “patriotism is the FIRST refuge of scoundrels”…:.)

    How right he was.

  35. Res Diss

    “Putin dismissed the notion that the uniformed armed people without insignia who are currently present in Crimea are Russian soldiers.”

    Nothing like you originally claimed he said:

    “Putin’s lie that there are no Russian troops in Crimea”

    Don’t blame you though. There’s so much propaganda coming from Fascist Central in Kiev that it must be quite difficult to keep up with it all.

    Feel free though to rebut what he actually is saying.

  36. Been reading this, Marx’s write-up of his research into what makes the Russians tick. Cannot fault his assessment. A lot of his research was done at the British Library, reading British diplomatic correspondence from Russia. Quite a lot of that is reproduced verbatim.

    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/russia/index.htm

  37. It’s half 9 so Habbabkuk must be on the night shift…:.)

    No zero hour contracts for these fellows.

    (Life so good-so long as you’re not in a food bank queue rejecting certain foodstuffs because you cant afford to heat them up).

  38. Clark,
    you should relax about the AGW theory. It is a political theory, not a scientific one.

  39. In this audio Willy Wimmer, a German lawyer, discusses the Coup d’etat in the Ukraine. He, quite rightly in my opinion, believes that the US is trying to set various countries against each other in Europe in its perpetual war, and that all this started with the war in Serbia.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/03/10/coup-detat-ukraine/

  40. Dunno if anyone’s seen this:

    “Address of judges of the Constitutional Court of Ukraine to European and international organisations and human rights institutions”

    http://www.ccu.gov.ua//en/publish/article/239275;jsessionid=447A6B91CE60E6D52D1DDF7CFAA7375C

    I think the fascists abolished them because they were being very boring over the constitution and law and stuff.

    But then, that’s what fascists do.

    Some things never change.

  41. John,

    “Perhaps even more pertinent is Tennyson’s ‘Charge of the Light Brigade’ at the Battle of Balaclava (1854). Yes, we’ve been there before. As with Afghanistan we have never learnt, but that was a particular mistake, like our adherence as pawns to US foreign policy. The US does not mind how many British troops die in its pursuit of world domination. It will be more than 600″

    So you do actually understand the great game – “full spectrum dominance”.

    CB

  42. I certainly do Courtney and only wish others beyond this blog could see it.

  43. Herbie,

    Yes, I think you may be making the grave mistake of imaging judges in the former soviet union countries to be in any way independent, creditable or distinguished

  44. Problems then arise when you get some complete cunt like Berezovsky who played a major role in stoking war in Chechenia so as to line his filthy pockets. (There’s a good story about Berezovsky in Ilyumzhinov’s autobiography.)

    N- to what extent does the story there correspond to John Dunlop’s considered opinions on the Moscow apartment bombings, which also implicted Berezovsky ?

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/nov/22/finally-we-know-about-moscow-bombings/?page=1

  45. Evgueni, “The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting”; Milan Kundera, 1978. I remember when politicians were dismissive of global warming, always saying how the economy had to be put first. That was before the Stern Review translated habitat loss and human suffering into monetary figures and loss of profits. As usual, money is the only thing that can change politicians’ minds.

    The science has never changed; the greenhouse properties of CO2 were just the same then as now. As the CO2 concentration increases so does the temperature, just as we’d expect. If the temperature wasn’t increasing there’d be a major scientific anomaly to explain.

    There’s political involvement, sure enough, but it’s in the opposite direction:

    http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2014/756-the-fateful-collision-floods-catastrophe-and-climate-denial.html

    http://www.monbiot.com/2007/12/11/rigged/

  46. John,

    My problem is the following:-

    A. I tell ‘em where I see the short failings.
    B. They tell me I am wrong.
    C. Events and history tell me and ‘em – I am right.

    Over to you and all bloggers.

    CB

  47. Wasn’t the Constitutional Court then one that was set up to restore lost gas licences (Regal etc).

  48. Clark,
    I have done my research and I am satisfied that there is no such thing as ‘the science of AGW’. That only leaves the politics of AGW, religion even – for many.

    Epidemiology is another deeply corrupted ‘science’.

  49. BrianFujisan

    11 Mar, 2014 - 1:32 am

    By William Blum

    ” Putin’s calm leadership, the absence of provocative statements and threats, and his insistence on legality and will of the people stand in stark contrast to the West’s threats and support for violent overthrow of a democratically elected government. It is astonishing that the only leadership the world has comes from Russia, China, and three or four countries in South America. The Western world no longer has diplomatic capability. Instead, the Western world relies on propaganda, threats, force, and schemes to overthrow governments that it first demonizes.

    Notice that Putin repeatedly asks why the West created the crisis in Ukraine. He makes the important point that in post-Soviet countries, legality and democracy are fragile. Democracy and legality are not furthered by overthrowing democracy before it has taken roots and placing in office an unelected government by force and illegality. It is impossible to argue with this point. Why, indeed, did the West murder democracy and constitutional order in Ukraine?

    The fact that Putin asks the question does not mean he does not know the answer. He does not give the answer, because he is a diplomat and still has some hope for common sense and good will to prevail. He knows that the West supported the overthrow of the Ukrainian government as part of its strategic thrust against the sovereignty and independence of Russia. Aligning Ukraine with NATO means US missile bases in Ukraine. Remember how terrified Americans were of Soviet missile bases in Cuba.

    Putin knows that Washington in pursuit of world hegemony is driving the world to a dangerous war in which neither side can accept defeat. Thus, nuclear weapons would be unleashed. Putin knows that the reason Washington withdrew from the anti-ballistic missile treaty and installed anti-ballistic missiles in Poland is to degrade Russia’s nuclear deterrent. Putin knows that the reason Washington changed its war doctrine to permit preemptive nuclear attack is to carry out a first strike against Russia.

    Putin also knows that only Europe can prevent this final devastation. Therefore, Putin does not make provocative statements or take strong actions. He hopes that Europe will notice his reasonable behavior in contrast with the reckless behavior of Washington and realize that Europe and NATO must cease enabling Washington’s pursuit of hegemony, a pursuit that is driving the world to its destruction. Putin hopes that Europeans’ sense of self-preservation will prevail over their lust for Washington’s money and invitations to dinner at the White House.

    By taking this humane and rational approach, Putin has established himself as the true leader of the world. Washington counters Putin’s leadership with demonization. Putin’s leadership frustrates Washington and makes Putin a candidate for assassination.”

    When it gets complicated and confusing, when you’re overwhelmed with too much information, changing daily; too many explanations, some contradictory … try putting it into some kind of context by stepping back and looking at the larger, long-term picture.

    The United States strives for world domination, hegemony wherever possible, their main occupation for over a century, it’s what they do for a living. The United States, NATO and the European Union form The Holy Triumvirate. The Holy Triumvirate has subsidiaries, chiefly The International Monetary Fund, World Bank, World Trade Organization, International Criminal Court … all help to keep in line those governments lacking the Holy Triumvirate Seal Of Approval: the IMF, WB, and WTO impose market fundamentalism, while foreign leaders who act too independent are threatened with being handed over to the ICC for heavy punishment, as the United States imposes sanctions on governments and their leaders as only the King of Sanctions can, lacking any sense of hypocrisy or irony.

    And who threatens United States domination?

    Who can challenge The Holy Triumvirate’s hegemony? Only Russia and China, if they were as imperialistic as the Western powers. (No, the Soviet Union wasn’t imperialistic; that was self-defense; Eastern Europe was a highway twice used by the West to invade; tens of millions of Russians killed or wounded.)

    Since the end of the Cold War the United States has been surrounding Russia, building one base after another, ceaselessly looking for new ones, including in Ukraine; one missile site after another, with Moscow in range; NATO has grabbed one former Soviet Republic after another. The White House, and the unquestioning American mainstream media, have assured us that such operations have nothing to do with Russia. And Russia has been told the same, much to Moscow’s continuous skepticism. “Look,” said Russian president Vladimir Putin about NATO some years ago, “is this is a military organization? Yes, it’s military. … Is it moving towards our border? It’s moving towards our border. Why?”

    The Holy Triumvirate would love to rip Ukraine from the Moscow bosom, evict the Russian Black Sea Fleet, and establish a US military and/or NATO presence on Russia’s border. (In case you were wondering what prompted the Russian military action.) Kiev’s membership in the EU would then not be far off; after which the country could embrace the joys of neo-conservatism, receiving the benefits of the standard privatization-deregulation-austerity package and join Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain as an impoverished orphan of the family; but no price is too great to pay to for being part of glorious Europe and the West!

    The Ukrainian insurgents and their Western-power supporters didn’t care who their Ukrainian allies were in carrying out their coup against President Viktor Yanukovych last month … thugs who set policemen on fire head to toe … all manner of extreme right-wingers, including Chechnyan Islamic militants… a deputy of the ultra-right Svoboda Party, part of the new government, who threatens to rebuild Ukraine’s nukes in three to six months.… the snipers firing on the protestors who apparently were not what they appeared to be – A bugged phone conversation between Urmas Paet, the Estonian foreign minister, and EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, reveals Paet saying: “There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition.”… neo-Nazi protestors in Kiev who have openly denounced Jews, hoisting a banner honoring Stepan Bandera, the infamous Ukrainian nationalist who collaborated with the German Nazis during World War II and whose militias participated in atrocities against Jews and Poles.

    The wider Article @

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-and-americas-strive-for-world-domination/5372400

  50. Evgueni, we may be off-topic here (I’m not sure this thread has a topic), but I’d be interested in how you’ve come to such a conclusion. If you can spare the time, please either e-mail me, or we could discuss the matter at Squonk’s; Squonk would probably start a new thread for the purpose, but for now there’s the General Discussion thread:

    https://squonk.tk/blog/2014/01/20/the-general-discussion-thread/

  51. yes, the great game continues … at a rapid rate these days:

    10 March – Businessweek: Switzerland Seeks Precision as Nations Shape Carbon Markets (1)
    South Africa, Brazil and Ukraine are among countries considering carbon markets that met last week in Mexico City under the auspices of the Partnership for Market Readiness, a World Bank program to develop nations’ emissions trading…
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-10/switzerland-seeks-precision-as-30-nations-shape-carbon-markets

    World Bank Carbon Finance Org: The Partnership for Market Readiness
    Shaping the Next Generation of Carbon Markets
    PMR Implementing Country Participants—Proposed Activities in Other Regions
    (SEE UKRAINE SECTION)
    https://wbcarbonfinance.org/docs/PMR_Brochure_v2.pdf

    PMR Update: Partnership for Market Readiness (PMR): Update Since PA7
    Eighth Meeting of the Partnership Assembly Mexico City, Mexico
    March 3-5, 2014
    http://www.thepmr.org/system/files/documents/PA8_Update.pdf

  52. speaking of Great Games, Craig, how do you rate Antony Sutton?

    i don’t think he could have encapsulated what he discovered, by way of documentary evidence, better than he did in this short interview:

    Wall Street Funded the Bolshevik Revolution – Professor Antony Sutton
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaFklTLNy8c

  53. “Putin’s calm leadership, the absence of provocative statements and threats, and his insistence on legality and will of the people ”

    This must be another Putin we’ve not heard about.

  54. The only Putin I have heard about is the one who gave Snowden refuge from the Great Satan when the PRC asked him to leave Hong Kong. That Putin is worth more than a nmillion yids or yats !

  55. As I haven’t already thought it would be possible, I found now an article, which I find quite reasonable, on what’s going on in a British paper, namely The Guardian.

    Marina Lewycka: Ukraine and the west: hot air and hypocrisy

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/ukraine-and-west-hot-air-hypocrisy-crimea-russia

    I recommend it to read, and to think about it, though “thinking is dangerous”, because “it can lead you to see the other person’s point of view.”

    The only thing I see Marina Lewycka got wrong is that she states, Viktor Yanukovych resigned, when in fact he didn’t resign. But the narrative is otherwise honest and written quite powerfully.

  56. Ba'al Zevul (MC Uriah Heep)

    11 Mar, 2014 - 8:59 am

    As we return to Victorian values and notions of the deserving poor, it behoves us to admire the sanctity of this good man, who has given millions in total to the Conservative Party:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-11/red-kite-evangelicals-reap-47-sowing-bet-on-china-copper-market.html

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-13m-cash-boost-3150628

    We are utterly unworthy. Praise!

  57. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 9:03 am

    Fred

    “and you get a flame war.”
    _____________

    You’re not important enough for that, Fred. Just drop it and stay O/T.

    I actually only mentioned it en passant, but why try and deny that you’re against Scottish independence when all your contributions to that particular debate indicate that you are? It’s a perfectly respectable position to hold and I’m genuinely puzzled that you’re getting so hot under the collar about it?

  58. Oh, I forgot ! There was another Putin too, who shot down a training missile fired at Damascus by a benzion melikowski aka bibi satanyahu at the height of the Ghouta false flag gassing. That Putin did not even take credit for it, leaving the Beast to reluctantly deny it had been involved in a “training exercise” as intimated by its zio partners. Neither of them knew it was Putin, just like the telephonic leaks of satanic intrigue we are getting from him now.

  59. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 9:07 am

    Resident Dissident

    “But it isn’t – funny he had a mercenary force just ready to go. There is plenty of evidence around that the force is made up of Russian regulars if you care to look.”
    ______________

    I think that’s correct. After all, the UK is regularly accused on this blog of sending in undercover SAS and other military to various conflicts, so why should the very same contributors get so hot under the collar about rasPutin doing the same? Beats me!

  60. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 9:12 am

    Hurby

    ““Putin dismissed the notion that the uniformed armed people without insignia who are currently present in Crimea are Russian soldiers.”

    Nothing like you originally claimed he said:

    “Putin’s lie that there are no Russian troops in Crimea””
    ____________________

    Those two points of Resident Dissident’s seem perfectly consistent to me. In both quotes, rasPutin is claiming that there are no Russian soldiers in Crimea (other than those allowed there by treaty to support the Black Sea fleet of course). But please do point to any inconsistency if you wish.

  61. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 9:17 am

    Jives observes

    “(Life so good-so long as you’re not in a food bank queue rejecting certain foodstuffs because you cant afford to heat them up).”
    _________________

    Well, that’s very much a statement of the obvious, isn’t it? Unfortunately.

  62. Kempe; “This must be another Putin we’ve not heard about”

    Try this: “Kerry’s calm leadership, the absence of provocative statements and threats, and his insistence on legality and will of the people ”

    Problem is;

    “This is an act of aggression that is completely trumped up in terms of its pretext. It’s really 19th century behaviour in the 21st century.There could be certainly disruption of any of the normal trade routine, there could be business drawback on investment in the country. There could even be ultimately asset freezes, visa bans”

    And just for the LOL;

    “You just don’t invade another country on phony pretexts in order to assert your interests,”

    Guess there must be an alternative reality that perhaps you have only a very filtered acquaintance with.

  63. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 9:22 am

    Mr Goss

    “I certainly do Courtney and only wish others beyond this blog could see it.”
    ____________________

    I like the note of puzzlement in the second part of the above : why, oh why, don’t the vast majority of the people share my opinions? Perhaps, as Brecht apparently suggested, we need to change the people?

  64. Ba'al Zevul (MC Uriah Heep)

    11 Mar, 2014 - 9:26 am

    ‘Well, that’s very much a statement of the obvious, isn’t it? Unfortunately.’

    More a statement of opinion, I’d have said. Like your previous three posts.

    ‘why should the very same contributors get so hot under the collar about rasPutin doing the same? Beats me!’

    The opinion-formers on whom you depend for your own opinions seem to be pretty exercised about Putin sending unlabelled assets into Crimea, too. Maybe you should have a go at the Mail/Express/News International/Republicans for Guns and Jesus ? Just a thought.

  65. The breathtaking impunity of the chosen ! We have a jew oligarch resident in Switzerland, who financed the Maidan mayhem, being given as booty, Governorship of an Eastern Ukrainian Region right next to Russia.

    A Russia with 20,000 nuclear weapons no less, the mf Ihor Kolomoysky is looking for some Polonium up his ass before he even turns up at Dnipropetrovsk.

    BTW-The Swiss have to wake up before they become the “new israel”, a state where all the jew thieves from all over the world run to. And now they are financing coups from there too, whilst Baumgartner is fast asleep !

  66. @Hab – So did you get taught any human values when you were a child, or not? Or was it a case of don’t be a shanda fur die goyim?

    Assuming you’re not a JTRIGger or similar pretending to be a Zionist (which you may be), your mind appears to be consumed with Nazi-style ‘race’ hatred.

    You say “If this bloke you were commenting about were
    Budd[h]ist or a Hindu, I don’t think you’d bother to mention his religion
    .

    Well actually I did mention that Ilyumzhinov was Buddhist. Will you apologise?

    Did you get struck by a momentary blackout when your race hatred kicked in?

    Your racism also appears to have prevented you from conceiving of the possibility that when I wrote

    You just have to put your fists up whenever anyone says anything negative about anyone who’s Jewish and who’s involved in an ethnically based crime ring, don’t you?

    I might be something other than a Nazi type who wants to arrest and jail anyone who’s ever had a grandparent brought up Jewish.

    In actual fact, I’m obviously not anything of the kind, and I’m also obviously correct in what I’m saying about you (assuming you’re not just acting), which is in fact shown in your very response to what I said.

    Talk about being a one-trick pony!

    What you do think is ‘the tribe must be protected above all, above absolutely everything and above the interests of absolutely everybody‘.

    Mashkevitch is an international Jewish businessman with an Israeli passport who is the power behind the throne in Kazakhstan who is not even from Kazakhstan. He is one of the former Soviet-area ‘oligarchs’ (i.e. mafia bosses) who is not only Jewish (as most of them are) but has a record (as many of them do) of involvement in an ethnic-Jewish organisation which is a regional arm of the World Jewish Congress.

    And BTW it’s Jewish billionaires who control the United States (AIPAC the legislature, CPMJO the executive, ADL the culture), not Buddhists, so the ethnic allegiance of international WJC billionaire Mashkevitch carries connections which a Buddhist or Hindu allegiance wouldn’t.

    Also the Jewish religion is intrinsically and essentially racist. You’ve heard of the “chosen people”, right? The Buddhist and Hindu religions for most of their adherents aren’t – even if all religion is shite that ‘justifies’ exploitation and certainly both Buddhism and Hinduism are compatible with racism and indeed with fascism.

    The doctrine of reincarnation is especially disgusting. It can only work against the expression of genuinely human values and the movement towards getting rid of hierarchy and exploitation.

    There’s absolutely zero that’s racist in anything I’ve said. People who come from Jewish backgrounds are free to reject racism, as were people in South Africa from white backgrounds. If Mordechai Zanunu and Gilad Atzmon and Israel Shahak can manage it, anyone can do it.

    It’s not at all surprising that the British National Party rates Melanie Phillips so highly.

  67. “Yes, I think you may be making the grave mistake of imaging judges in the former soviet union countries to be in any way independent, creditable or distinguished”

    Judges in Scotland aren’t looking too good either, judging by today’s Mail.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577930/Iran-blew-Lockerbie-jet-Ayatollah-used-Syrian-based-terror-group-bomb-Pan-Am-108-revenge-attack-airliner.html

  68. “Try this: “Kerry’s calm leadership, the absence of provocative statements and threats, and his insistence on legality and will of the people ” etc..”

    So what are you trying to say? That Putin’s OK because Kerry is worse?

  69. “You’re not important enough for that, Fred. Just drop it and stay O/T.”

    Didn’t I tell you to fuck off shit for brains?

    I don’t play games with retard trolls, keep me and my name out of your posts or you get flamed. That’s how it is dickhead, I don’t piss about with shit for brained trolls.

  70. @Resident Dissident:

    “Problems then arise when you get some complete cunt like Berezovsky who played a major role in stoking war in Chechenia so as to line his filthy pockets.”

    While I can agree with this assessment of Berezovsky – perhaps you might wish to apply the same description to Putin who did his own little bit towards stoking up another war in Chechenya?

    I agree. In no way would I defend Putin and the Kremlin’s actions in Chechenia.

    But can we say “similar” rather than “same”? The description should be tweaked a bit for Putin. Berezovsky was involved with the KGB in Moscow, but Putin is a KGB man through and through. He’s rooted to Russia in a way that Berezovsky never was. I mean by the choices he has made in power struggles, not because of ethnicity.

    Politics exists wholly within economics – it can take people a long time to understand that – but there is a difference between an asset such as the Kremlin and an asset such as billions of dollars in a Zurich bank account. Which is not to say Putin doesn’t have the latter as well.

    Berezovsky was less tied to Russia than Putin but much more tied to Russia than say Nevzlin or several other oligarchs who could be mentioned. A little bit less than Abramovich.

    There’s a spectrum:

    …Putin…Abramovich…Berezovsky…Nevzlin…

    Quite a lot of these charming ‘Ollie Gark’ chaps have MI6 connections too, including through Gibraltar and the Channel Islands as well as London.

    In short: Britain’s as dirty as Russia, any day of the week.

    Berezovsky’s connections with the royal family even got mentioned in the Torygraph once. Just once, that is. Not twice.

    Putin’s role makes me think of how under Stalin it was the KGB (under previous names) that controlled the arms dumps in most of the country but it was the army that controlled them in Moscow. Everyone who has studied the history of the USSR knows that extreme importance was given to ‘security’.

    It still is.

    Are there people in SIS who think they can help do a Kiev in Moscow? They can’t. Tell the loonies that you heard it from me.

    What they could probably do is line their pockets at the expense of fuck knows what level of carnage in Russia.

    I’d rather see them expelled before they do.

    Which isn’t to say they aren’t in some of what they do in Moscow working with the KGB.

    Funny old game.

    One final thing on Chechenia: after the butchery of Beslan, there will be no lasting peace.

    Beslan was like Bloody Sunday in Derry/Londonderry times 25 in terms of the number of casualties, but times up to 250 or more in effect. Because taking over 1000 innocent children hostage in a military operation in a school in which hundreds then get killed is a scale up from shooting dead a dozen unarmed civilians half of whom were teenagers and some of whom may have been throwing stones. I think almost everybody would agree with that.

    There may be stretches of peace, but influencing the mood towards peace will be much more of a sticky job, liable to hit resistance and reversal, than letting it go in the other direction, sadly. Of course those who have any great influence whether from the KGB nightclubs in Moscow or the panelled clubrooms in London will be most concerned in…lining…their…you-know-whats…

  71. Black Jelly

    That is the third time this week you have referred to “yids”. You really are not welcome on this site any more, under any of your identities. At times you have been showing the same IP address as Guano, so unless Guano you can convince me you are not the same person, you are both banned.

    Mods please delete anything from Black Jelly or Guano on sight and from anyone you even suspect to be the same person. I am afraid radical surgery is required. If Black Jelly persists, we shall have to consider whether he is committing a criminal offence by persistent hate speech.

    [Noted, with thanks, investigation begun, results will be edited in here.]

  72. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 1:44 pm

    Ba’ar Zevul

    “The opinion-formers on whom you depend for your own opinions”
    ______________________

    Ah, there’s the difference between me and you and the other Eminences, you see.

    I don’t rely on opinion formers – whether on dubious websites or not – to make up my mind for me :)

  73. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 1:48 pm

    Fred

    You overlook something – as so often : I don’t CARE if you flame me.

    So calm down, dear!

  74. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 1:51 pm

    N_ (10h13)

    I think you protest just a little too much (“I’m NOT a rascist” etc). Your posts reveal otherwise as far as Jews are concerned.

  75. If no-one ever learns from History, why write it? Because *some* might learn. For example the French refused to get involved in Iraq. :)

  76. Craig

    “Yes, I think you may be making the grave mistake of imagining judges in the former soviet union countries to be in any way independent, creditable or distinguished”

    Is that you saying the above, Craig, or is it our new moderator, Clark?

    I’d have expected Craig to understand where such reasoning leads, especially since he has based his own argument in this area upon the rule of law.

    ==============================================

    Habby

    “Those two points of Resident Dissident’s seem perfectly consistent to me. In both quotes, rasPutin is claiming that there are no Russian soldiers in Crimea (other than those allowed there by treaty to support the Black Sea fleet of course). But please do point to any inconsistency if you wish.”

    The two statements are so consistent that even you yourself feel the need to qualify them, and in brackets, no less.

    So that’d be another fail, I’m afraid.

    But please, don’t give up.

  77. “You overlook something – as so often : I don’t CARE if you flame me.”

    Fuck off retard.

  78. Ba'al Zevul (Stereotypes 'R' Us)

    11 Mar, 2014 - 2:17 pm

    Ah, there’s the difference between me and you and the other Eminences, you see.

    Eats shoots and leaves. Kindly be less ambiguous. And cite your sources, if the comma goes where I think it does. I cite mine, and they are (a) various and (b) avoid conspiracy theories. They have even included the Daily Mail (subject to (b), above). As you never provide any kind of backup for your often astonishing assertions and innuendoes, I will continue to ascribe their sources for you. And their intention.

    I see Craig has cottoned onto the probable stitching-up of Megrahi. Your opinion on that, rather than on other posters, would be welcome, I am sure..

  79. @Hab – Don’t be so fucking insulting. You are a racist. I’m not. You will not find one single thing I’ve posted here that any reasonable person would call racist. (And I’m not going to get into any further discussion with you, so don’t waste your time.)

    To say I ‘protest too much’ is just throwing mud. You are here for dishonest reasons. I and most of your other opponents aren’t.

    If it was my blog, I’d ban you. I’d also force Zionist organisations whether formal or informal to register as agents of a foreign power.

    I shouldn’t bother answering you, and I will now stop doing so. DON’T FEED THE TROLLS is always good advice; sometimes it’s hard to follow. Goodbye.

  80. Herbie, 2:07 pm, the comment at 11 Mar, 12:05 am is not by me. It could not be by me because, so far as I know, only Craig’s comments can have a blue background, and I do not know Craig’s username or password.

    As for your assertion that I’m the new moderator, please desist. I suffered severe mental problems when I previously moderated at this site, so I quit. If you won’t permit me to quit, I really don’t know how I’ll cope.

    If you have complaints about moderation, use the contact form.

  81. Clark

    You’re making far far too many assumptions there.

    I asked a simple question.

    I do need to know to whom I’m speaking, so thanks for the clarification that it was Craig.

    It’s still quite a bizarre thing for him to have said, but there ya go.

  82. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 2:57 pm

    N-

    Feel free to “do a Goss”, as I believe it’s known.

    For the record: I don’t recall calling you a racist (it’s you who has made free with the word, I think) but I’m convinced you’re a Jew hater. From just one of your posts on this page : “And BTW it’s Jewish billionaires who control the United States” and “Also the Jewish religion is intrinsically and essentially racist.” And there’s plenty more from where those came. You must feel quite at home here.

    And now, p*ss off!

  83. Allow me N_:

    Feed the trolls at your own peril. Remember the allegory of the scorpion and the tortoise.

    You know what they are……

  84. THE STORY

    A turtle was happily swimming along a river when a scorpion hailed it from the shore.

    A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. “Are you mad?” exclaimed the turtle. “You’ll sting me while I’m swimming and I’ll drown.”

    “My dear turtle,” laughed the scorpion, “if I were to sting you, you would drown and I would go down with you, and drown as well. Now where is the logic in that?”

    The turtle thought this over, and saw the logic of the scorpion’s statement. “You’re right!” cried the turtle. “Hop on!” The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river the scorpion gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly said:

    “Do you mind if I ask you something? You said there’d be no logic in your stinging me. Why did you do it?”

    “It has nothing to do with logic,” the drowning scorpion sadly replied. “It’s just my character.”

  85. @Old Mark

    (There’s a good story about Berezovsky in Ilyumzhinov’s autobiography.)

    N- to what extent does the story there correspond to John Dunlop’s considered opinions on the Moscow apartment bombings, which also implicted Berezovsky?

    I think those bombings were done in order to scale up a war in Chechenia and help propel Putin towards the presidential office. Almost certainly by the KGB working together with Berezovsky.

    My ears pricked right up when Tony Blair told Putin that he was sure Putin sympathised with the US after 911 in 2001 because Russia too had been under a similar sort of attack by terrorists when the apartment blocks were bombed in 1999.

    “Hello”, I thought. Bit of a giveaway. I’m sure Putin got the message.

    Ilyumzhinov’s story isn’t about the Moscow bombings. It’s about when he was bidding to become the President of Kalmykia. It’s from a time when Berezovsky was best-known in the Soviet media as a mathematician who was also an MP. Ilyumzhinov describes a ‘famous MP’ who warned him not to take part in the contest in Chechenia. Ilyumzhinov was himself an MP at that time. The MP who was threatening him told him, “If you continue, I’ll have 15000 of my armed men on the streets tomorrow morning”. The way Ilyumzhinov tells it is that “At that moment, I knew I’d won”.

    …and the testosterone had to be scraped off the walls!

    Ilyumzhinov BTW says he believes he was contacted by aliens.

  86. @Hab – Quit with the dishonest personal abuse. Saying I protest too much when I say I’m not a racist is calling me a racist.

    As for the two things you adduce from what I said to show that I’m a “Jew hater”, er, no, they don’t show anything of the kind. So saying that Chinese interests control Indonesia would make someone a Chinese-hater, would it? Meanwhile, if a religion is essentially racist, there’s something wrong about someone who mentions that fact, is there? Assuming you’re not just pretending to be a Zionazi arsehole, you appear to have no ground to stand on other than thuggish tribal hatred. And with that, I really am going to stop feeding the trolls.

  87. Kempe: “So what are you trying to say? That Putin’s OK because Kerry is worse?”

    Is it so difficult to even follow your own train of thoughts ? You stated that you couldn’t recognise Putin measured de-escalating Ukraine response from Blum’s desription, so I gave you the comparison of Kerry’s escalating response, being the complete opposition of Putin’s, in the hope that this would aid you in understanding what Blum was reffering to; obviously not !

  88. doug scorgie

    11 Mar, 2014 - 6:52 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!
    10 Mar, 2014 – 10:35 pm

    “If this bloke you were commenting about were Buddist or aHindu, I don’t think you’d bother to mention his religion.”

    How many times need you be reminded Habbabkuk, Jewish is not a religion.

  89. The Crimean parliament has adopted a resolution of independence from the Ukraine pending the 16th March referendum. It was agreed today with 78% voting for it. Perhaps MSM will report this, perhaps not. Apparently the precedent cited for it was Kosovo.

    http://nsnbc.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Declaration_Independence_Crimea_parliament.jpg

    This is the article. Well, it looks like the coup might turn out to have been in vain and instead of moving nearer to Europe the Ukraine may eventually move further away, and will certainly cede land to the Russians. I will sleep a little sounder in my bed tonight.

    Here is the full article.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/03/11/crimean-parliament-adopts-declaration-of-independence-in-preparation-of-referendum/

  90. No, the world hasn’t changed much at all – or even since Roman times or earlier, for that matter.

    The birds still nest in the trees, the fish still swim, the sun still rises and sets and nutters, liars and homicidal kleptocrats still rise to positions of power and influence.

  91. This is from Clark, testing to see if I can post a comment that appears to have been posted by Craig. It occurred to me that I may only need Craig’s e-mail address, and not his username and password.

  92. Interesting. I seem to be able to trick Gravatar, but I can’t get the blue background from craigmurray.org.uk

  93. Craig

    You may not have noticed that somebody puppet-socked a comment under my name in the middle of ‘ Stating the Obvious’. It was about Baroness Amos, personal and offensive and nothing whatsoever to do with me.
    I complained about it at the end of the comments but nothing has been changed.

    Please can you or mods check that my details have not been copied/ abused. Thanks.

  94. Is the Russian occupation of the Crimea a case of aggressive expansionism by Moscow or aimed at at blocking a scheme by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) to roll right up to the Russia’s western border? WikiLeaks has revealed a secret cabledescribing a meeting between French and American diplomats that suggests the latter, a plan that has been in the works since at least 2009.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/13/wikileaks-ukraine-and-nato/
    A Relentless March to Russia’s Doorstep
    WikiLeaks, Ukraine and NATO

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