The BNP “Threat” 78

Harriet Harman’s latest wheeze is to warn us that querying MPs’ disgusting behaviour will “Play into the hands of the BNP”.

There is an excellent article on the BNP by Jeremy Seabrook in the Guardian.

It is absolutely true that under Blair the Labour Party abandoned the interests of the White Working Class. That hasn’t really changed. Bankers can have hundreds of billions from the taxpayers, but the Corus steel foundry on Tyneside can go to the wall.

Seabrook’s evocative description of “forlorn estates of liquor shops covered with chicken wire, leaky drainpipes, semi-wild dogs and tattered flags of St George ?” everything that symbolised the last gasp of a disappearing working class” immediately transported me back to canvassing in Mill Hill ward in Blackburn. There was little political downside to abandoning the “sinks”. Voter turnout among the hopeless voters of Mill Hill was down to around ten per cent. But I found the people friendly and engaging. I was frequently invited in for tea. They did not vote, not because they were stupid, but because they no longer believed it would do any good.

It was quite simply true that vastly more of the huge amount of public money which underpins the economy of Blackburn, ended up benefiting the immigant rather than the poor white community. But these essentially decent white people fully shared the strong British dislike of anything associated with fascism. The BNP only got just over 5% in Blackburn – the same as I got as an anti-war Independent.

Meanwhile, there was an incredible 29% of all votes cast by postal ballot in Blackburn. This was over twice the national average, and I believe the highest percentage in the country. As part of New Labour’s plan to maximise the value of their postal ballot vote farming through patriarchal power structures in immigrant communities, these postal ballots were by law mixed with secret ballots before counting, so it was not possible to record any discrepancy between postal and secret ballots. But I learnt from tellers that they looked to be “over 90%” for Jack Straw. (See Murder in Samarkand p. 365). That means Straw only got about 30% of secret, non-postal ballots.

These postal ballots came almost entirely from the Muslim community, and almost entirely went to Jack Straw. So he doesn’t need the white people of Mill Hill.

The mainstream parties exaggerate the electoral threat from the BNP because it is in their interest to do so. The astonishing thing is that the BNP do not have more support from the politically abandoned poor whites of this country. That is a reflection of the British people’s fundamental decency.

What is needed now is a politics of fairness and concern, of work and the dignity of labour, and which respects the values of liberty and toleration that still appeal to working class people as a fundamental part of their British heritage. The Labour Party can never again stand for that. New Labour never did. A radical political realignment is beginning to take place in the UK. How men of goodwill should try to influence that for the better is a grope in a forest rather than a march down an open road at present. I hope a track may be found soon. But getting rid of Brown, Harman, Mandelson and this terrible government is an obvious priority.

Allowed HTML - you can use: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

78 thoughts on “The BNP “Threat”

1 2 3
  • technicolour

    sorry for double posting, above.

    anticant, have you thought how you sound?

    “unless they are prepared to acknowledge that the great majority of non-Muslims in this country would prefer them to be less stridently self-righteous”. Who is being stridently self-righteous? Who is “they”? Do you mean the bloke who fixes my car? What?

    “And to cease their endless pushing for special privileges”. What “special privileges”? Do you mean the special privilege of being disproportionately stopped and searched, or arrested in dawn swoops, or deported, or what? And what “endless pushing”?

    “whilst portraying themselves as ‘victims'” – see above. And of course, we’re only bombing their relatives.

    “we really do have a problem which will only get worse unless new attitudes and policies emerge on all sides to deal with it”. Mmm. What happened to the old-fashioned attitudes and policies of tolerance and interest in, rather than fear of, and dissection of, other cultures?

    I fear the BNP are laughing up their sleeves at Mr Murray’s “I believe Rachel is right to say that there are at least a million illegal immigrants. But it is practically impossible without introducing a Nazi state to deport a million people.”

  • technicolour

    Dear Anticant, have just seen your recent comment. It almost baffles me. To say there is a problem with “Muslims” is like saying there is a problem with “Christians”. To speak of “their” attitudes is as limiting and meaningless as speaking of the “attitudes” of Christians, or Jewish people. There is a spectrum of beliefs, attitudes, practices and opinions in both these groups, and yet apparently you see at least one of them as homogenous. Why?

  • anticant

    You know perfectly well who I mean: Iqbal Sacranie, Inayat Bunglawala and their MCB lot to start with. And there are plenty of others.

    And tell me how many of the Musalims you know are genuinely interested in, and tolerant of, indigenous British culture? Their self-appointed spokesmen are mostly decrying its decadence, saying “No” to free speech, and threatening violence if anyone thwarts them. What about the dangerous driver Lord Ahmed, and his pledge to bring 10,000 Muslims to protest if Geert Wilders was allowed into the country?

    Do you really think this type of “community politics” is helpful? Of course I agree with you about “stop and search”. Unfortunately, it has always been used disproportionately against non-white people, and I’m no fan of our police force. I’ve nothing against Muslims as human beings but they really do need to reconsider how to improve their public image if they wish to reduce the growing hostility – some of it ignorant and prejudiced, I agree – which they arouse. And most hostility, you know, arises out of fear, whether realistic or not.

    I’m not phobic about Muslims, by the way: I know some very nice ones. But I’m much less positive about their religion and wonder whether it is compatible with an open, tolerant society.

  • Anonymous

    Anticant: I see, you mean the UK’s Muslim ‘leaders’. Well, there’s not much point judging an entire group of people by their UK leaders, especially since you say they’re “self-appointed”. Unless you wish me to judge you by (the minority elected) Tony Blair et al? I thought not.

    In any case, threating to bring 10,000 people to a protest is pretty small beer. A million people for Stop the War, and hundreds of thousands for the G8, remember?

    In fact, if you do a quick web search, other Muslim leaders, feminists and academics, as well as the imam at my local mosque, are condemning just about everything bad, from intolerance to war to forced marriage to violence of any kind. But they don’t get heard in our press.

    You ask how many Muslims I know are genuinely interested in British culture. I presume you mean society, since I’ve not heard any ‘Muslims’ slagging off Shakespeare. The answer is all of them. They live here. As for being tolerant of it: I try to be, myself.

    But the BNP, and this unwitting (?) stooge of a government don’t care. If all Muslims started skipping around in morris costumes saying “we love everyone”, they still wouldn’t care. The BNP, certainly, have studied Nazi Germany. They know they need a useful scapegoat. One hopes they read the end of that story, too.

    Still, how annoying that someone trying to defend an open, tolerant society sould end up referring to the scapegoats as though they are the other. Why, if we’re talking potentially dodgy religions (all of them) would you care more about Islam than Catholicism? Why would you ever be phobic about four percent of a country’s population?

  • HappyClappy

    Pavlov rang his bell to get a response out of his dogs, neo labour banshees cry; BNP, to summon the faithful to gather and leaflet, and or douse down the flames of controversy licking the stinking carcass of the expense scrounging, people criminalizing, ballot box stuffing crooks posing as the defenders of the poor, and the up holders of justice.

    Forever the neo labour has been screaming;BNP, in fact, given any; by-election, election, and or tight spot that needed forbearance, and proved to be a distraction from the long party they have been busy with, ever since their access to the seats of power, out goes the cry; BNP!.

    These kinds of banshee politics are not new, yea olde Roman crooks and emperors used to proclaim that the Barbarians were at the gates of Rome. McCarthy in cahoots with J. Edgar Hoover was busy hunting down communists, etc. Hence to find neo labour sounding general quarters alarms with cries of; BNP, is an elegant adherence to the traditions of crooks, and liars, and ought not come as any surprise, or be taken as a serious proposition.

    However, the cries of keep away the extremists form the “Politics” has been the license for inception and implementation of misanthropic polices which at times have bordered racism, all in the way of stopping the other bunch of racists in their tracks, and out of parliament!

    Furthermore, neo labour, and their entanglement with the Zionists, and sponsors thereof, conveniently can draw comfort from the fact that their divisive and racist policies will be spun in the relevant media as the necessary steps for keeping our country to ourselves. With the additional benefits enjoying the Zionist supremacists’ Keyboard Hoards, whose handy cut and paste interjections are copiously abound in the blogosphere.

    Therefore to find “Rachel” posting the unconscious drivel (replete with inaccuracies) whilst posing as an “aggrieved white” person just takes the cake. Deception to what end?. Deception to what depth? Deception to what degree?

    Noting the expression of “Dole Office”, a long forgotten concept, these days the private entity “Job Centrer Plus” deals with the “job seekers” (same term as the communist China). The foreigners in the health centre as referred to by “Rachel”, are the staff , without whom the place will be pulled down and made into a block of flats, and or Spearmint Rhino. Finally, judging by the Pound’s performance, and its weakness and constant slide towards zero, Pollacks are better off to stay out of UK, and earn their Euros elsewhere. As for the six seven children “Asians”, “Rachel” is mixing the Gaza Arab Hostages as the “Brown” residents in UK, the story line of myths, and prejudices spewed as the views of the “ordinary” “real” folks, are in the lines of the photo posters of Blair with Jewish couple in the back ground, which are further helped by the fact that not many of the debaters are on benefits, seeing as those real benefit recipients are not in a position to afford the exorbitant costs of pay as you go electricity, never mind affording the costs of a telephone line, and or cable for accessing the internet. Hence the campaign of disinformation among the “voting” populace, going unchallenged, further covering up for the fact that evidently researchers are finding out that dog/pet food is as good as pate for human consumption.

    So far as Craig’s experience in elections goes, he has not come across the disenfranchised, whom could not register, and or did not know how to vote, and or did not have any ideas about where to vote! I have, and I can tell you, not many racists or bigots are among the people out there, in fact the trouble makers are the “unreal people” in the “political class” whom have no fecking clue about the people, or the country, hence their pusillanimous attempts in trying to relate to the wider world through the use of “real”, as in; “real world”, “real people”, “real economy”, “real etc.”.

    Finally the notions of a major party decrying the potential influence of a bunch of wacky, nut job, none entities, is in fact indicative of the depths of ineptitude, and break down of our political system, that can only exist based on rule of fear, and trepidation. However, whom ought to fear whom has not been as yet clarified, and in due course of the fullness of time it will all become apparent.

  • technicolour

    Gosh, no offence, but I nearly understood Happy Clappy’s post there.

  • BGD

    Rates of integration vary widely depending what ethnic / racial group you are discussing. Afro-Caribs at one end of the scale and Muslims at the other.

    What does assimilate require: wear suits, drink in bars, socialise in mixed race groups? Is it reasonable to ask someone who comes to the UK from outside or who grows in an ethnically dense neighbourhood to turn their back on their background / ancestry etc. It’s a fundamental of who you are and also a support network too (Indian Hindus good example of the latter).

    There’s a good case thats sometimes made that the growth of interest in fundamental Muslim groups in this county is actually due to third generation kids turning against the host culture they were brought up in, freq very successfully so perhaps more social engineering style assimilation measures might have unexpected and more alienating effects.

    People can (and do)give lip service to multi-culturalism and yet their behaviours usually contradict their avowed values.

    There are a lot of reports too of how multicultural societies make people more insular in their outward ‘social’ behaviour and less trusting generally. For one example, Prospect Magazine ran a series of articles on how homogenous societies were more inclined to support welfare and redistributive measures whereas more diverse societies were less so.

    It’s also fact that white birth rates are not enough to keep replacement levels whilst many ethnic minority groups are well above this level and certainly well above the white levels.

    So an interesting thought experiment is to imagine what the political situation will be like in this country when the white population is itself the ethnic minority and various groups are vying for their place at the table. The Jack Straw postal vote patriarchy situation will be a lot further down the road and the political /legal heritage and liberal higher values espoused now might not get the sort of allegiance that they get today.

    Then imagine your children (or your children’s children) inhabiting that world.

  • Courtenay Barnett

    BDG ” Then imagine your children (or your children’s children) inhabiting that world.”

    And if Mom is White English – Dad is Asian – and the kids down the road are Afro-Caribbean – then?

  • Courtenay Barnett

    BDG ” Then imagine your children (or your children’s children) inhabiting that world.”

    And if Mom is White English – Dad is Asian – and the kids down the road are Afro-Caribbean – then?

  • Courtenay Barnett

    BDG ” Then imagine your children (or your children’s children) inhabiting that world.”

    And if Mom is White English – Dad is Asian – and the kids down the road are Afro-Caribbean – then?

  • BGD

    Then, what Courtenay Barnett? For me on the micro (personal)level continuing that thought experiment, if that white mother was one of my daughters I would feel sad and appalled.

  • Courtenay Barnett

    BDG – must apologise to Craig – and to you BDG – I only intended to post you one part Asian grandchild – but the button went off three times. So – you now have 3 part Asian grandchildren – instead of one. Be happy – your genes continue…

  • Craig


    Fundamentalist Muslims in the UK are indeed often not first generation, but they do arise out of communities which have become physically and socially separated from surrounding white communities. I have spent a lot of time talking to such people, not only in Blackburn.

    I think social mixing is na essential part of integration. I don’t care what people where. But as I continually say, we must start by integrating the schools.

  • anticant

    Communities who want ‘faith schools’ should fund them out of their own resources. They should not receive a penny of public funds. And they should be rigorously inspected to ensure that they are giving their pupils an adequate general education, and not merely indoctrinating them with religious dogma.

  • BGD

    Courtenay, sorry that is risible logic.

    Anticant good point but in the UK the most significant Muslim population and that to which I was referring is of Pakistani origin. Therefore ‘Muslim’ is a (sloppy) shorthand for that ethnic group.

    Craig yes think you are right but also understand that many of the radical Muslim groups are making many of their converts at one end at University and at the other in prisons.

  • anticant

    No it isn’t. Ask them which is more important – their country (whether Britain or Pakistan), or Islam.

    Don’t forget, Pakistan was founded as an Islamic state because the worshippers of Allah weren’t willing to live in a majority Hindu united India.

    And more than a million died in the communal religious riots resulting from partition. The haste of that scuttle and the resulting deaths is one of the blots on British imperial history.

  • somebody

    Why is everyone having a witch hunt for Rachel. Sounds like the NuLabour Jackboot Jackie gang out for her head.

    Lets remember that NuLabour have set the agenda for the past 12 horrendous years and have by social policy, propaganda and legislation caused the Muslims to be the scapegoat for societies ills.

    Before 1997 we hardly ever heard of Islam and Muslims in the news. They have become a convenient peg to split the nation.

    Hopefully we are seeing the spontaneous combustion of this evil political party before our very eyes to be swept into the ash-can of political history for ever. NUL RIP.

  • technicolour

    BDG: “if that white mother was one of my daughters I would feel sad and appalled.”

    Oh well. Then your daughter would hate you, your wife would (probably secretly) hate you and you would never get to see your grandchildren. I guess you would deserve it.

  • AM

    I really don’t understand this thing of downplaying the threat of the BNP just because the government are trying to capitalise on it – why can’t we fight the government AND the fascists? The BNP and the far right ARE on the rise and when the shite hits the fan the state will look to the far-right to smash us and keep us in our place.

    I have nothing but the highest praise for those dedicated anti-racist groups that have continually exposed, challenged and organised against the far-right wherever they have raised their ugly heads. After all, if it was left up to the BBC, the BNP would be portrayed as a harmless group just concerned about immigration levels, rather than the hardened, violent fascists that they are.

    It is not impossible to fight on two fronts and there’s no point pretending the far-right do not exist or that Muslims and Asians in general are not suffering an increase in racism and intimidation – that increase is a direct result of the government’s actions and it is those actions that have emboldened the BNP. We must fight both.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Please can some people stop objectifying persons who happen to be Muslim and referring to us all as if we were one single organism and that. too, a caricature. You have to see that this is a big part of the problem and is a tactic designed to split communities.

    Btw, I’m against faith schools as a principle though I’m aware it’s a complex issue, esp. here in Scotland where there are many Catholic schools. Did you know that there is a Jewish school in Glasgow where many of the pupils are Muslims – and from that most despised of groups, those bogey-men and women (and since “they have lots of babies”, children, no doubt, eh?) the Pakistani group (and many of their parents are from poor backgrounds originally in rural Pakistan)? Does anyone know that over the past five decades, one of the biggest film-stars in Pakistan has been a Jewish Pakistan woman called Barbara Sharif? Did you know that there are Jewish Pakistani people in Karachi? Did you know that there is a thriving camp-vampire genre film-cycle made in Pushtu in the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan with a female as the lead protagonist? Do you know of the excellent visual art there? How do you square that with the bipolar world of your preconceptions? Does this kind of thing – this type of interaction actually is the norm in this country, btw – ever get into the news? Don’t define your reality by what you see/ hear/ read in the news. There’s more to life.

  • AM

    “The BNP and the far right ARE on the rise and when the shite hits the fan the state will look to the far-right to smash us and keep us in our place.”

    Just realise I made the mistake of thinking this was a left-wing site which it clearly is not. I take back that ‘us’ on reading through these comments.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    I think what happens, AM, is that while ‘the site is alright’, indeed much of what is originally posted by Mr Murray is intelligent, timely and thought-provoking – that is, for those who wish to think – and Mr Murray’s views are refreshingly broad-minded, undogmatic etc., some of the people latch onto such sites and try to rubbish intelligent discourse and divert people away from the original issues.

    It’s possibly the same sorts of people who send daily abusive e-mails and death threats to journalists like Yasmin Alibahi-Brown. People write stuff on the web which they would think twice about writing in a letter or saying face-to-face. It can bring out the worst in people – partly because of its anonymity and the instantaneous nature of its medium.

    My problem is, I try to think the best of people, and maybe that’s naive. My and others’ (including your excellent) attempts to present the complexities of the world and bring the discourse back from atavism to some kind of sanity sometimes fall on deaf ears. Nothing new there. But do keep on…!!

  • technicolour

    AM: I’m not sure whether it’s that these extreme opinons seem to be taken seriously on this board, or the absence of fact, or the tolerance of misinformation, or the overall line of “yes, this is (these Muslims are) a problem, which we need to discuss like reasonable people and find solutions for”.

    All are worrying.

    Suhayl, I’ll youtube for that camp-vampire genre film cycle! And thanks for the other sane information too.

  • Courtenay Barnett

    BDG – you say: ” Courtenay, sorry that is risible logic.” But, Technicolour makes the point for me, in saying: ” Then your daughter would hate you, your wife would (probably secretly) hate you and you would never get to see your grandchildren. I guess you would deserve it.”

    Actually, checked on your family’s progress and found everyone to be doing quite well. Your Asian son-in-law is actually a nationally respected Harley Street doctor. Your three grandchildren all graduated with first class honours from university, thanks in large measure to their dad’s attention to their academic advancement. And, the eldest became a politician, and became party leader and is slated to be the first “coloured” Prime Minister of Britain.

    BDG, you have a lot to be proud of, thanks to your daughter’s excellent choice for a husband. Now, don’t forget to kiss the grandchildren when next you see them.

    P.S. The final thing I might add BDG, is that I am so pleased that racism is not something that can be genetically transmitted. It seems that with a bit of education and some worldly exposure the sick condition has a tendency of disappearing. Not to worry BDG ?” be assured – you can be cured.

  • BGD

    Anticant, the majority of Muslims in the UK come from Pakistan, most from Kashmir. These are the people to whom I refer. When many of the young men among the poorer communities here want to take a wife they look to their ancestral village as their heritage is important to them, not the village down the road. Taking a partner from any ethnic group provided they are ‘Muslim’ (which itself has many many sub faiths) is a non starter?” do you really think they would marry a Turk for instance even if they were of good family? To ask the question is to answer it. Therefore their ethnicity is extremely important to them.

    Technicolour, firstly a few of the people commenting on my comments must be dyslexic as its BGD. Secondly that is why for many the situation ends as a tragedy. For my part one holds fast to the principles one has come to believe in and not take the path of least resistance and easy emotion.

    AM there is a difference between a militant ‘far right’ or ‘fascists’ as you categorise it and the natural individual’s desire for continuity.It can be that simple, doesn’t have to involve “hatred” or “racism” any the rest of the leftist thought-crime vocabulary.

    Courtenay Barnett: yawn. I can see why your personality type and cheap sneers and absence of arguments made you choose the legal profession along with the Blairs and Howards of this world. ‘Asians’ are an extremely broad category. If we take the Pakistani element to which I referred then those are not the usual life expectations of that community. They have higher than average unemployment, their educational achievements are very poor for males etc. Other Asian groups though do remarkable well. And of course for balance’s sake poor white children, esp boys are currently hovering near the bottom.

  • Courtenay Barnett

    BDG: so you want argument.

    Britain has a number of people in it who are non-white citizens.

    They have rights as do the rest of the population.

    Either the country accepts them and devises methods of integration, or like you, seek to ostracise and mariginalise, which leads to great social unrest, riots and on-going resentments.

    So, you do have choices.

    Trying to ostracise ‘them’ or, ensuring that they are further marginalised compliments of exclusionary attitudes, is not doing anything on your part to help heal divisive wounds.

    But, with due regard for your racist attitudes, that’s a choice you have made.

    On another aspect of your comment, placing me in the same category as “the Blairs and Howards” ( because of the shared profession) reeks of the same ad hominem that you are accusing me of indulging in. I believe on this one you really have cast the generic net far too wide ?” really can’t see myself being a bit like Blair ( not in the consistency of my personal conduct or my opposition to the war in Iraq at any rate).

    So, far as my responses to your posts are concerned – I am simply saying that I see no sense in racism, when humankind has greater challenges on hand.

    Actually, now I can be truly risible to conclude.

    I plan for your next birthday to present a gift of a car called the “Universal”. On it will be placed a note:-

    “BDG – thought I would deliver something truly global for your birthday. Parts from Africa; pre-fab done in Korea; engine made in Germany with a specially installed carburetor from Poland; made by a company headquarted in Japan; and, the shareholders are from 60 countries from across the globe”. Happy driving of your “Universal” BDG.

    It does seem to me that the parochialism of ‘my little Blighty’ attitudes has no space in this new era of gloablisation. Your attitude seems to me, outdated, and quite frankly, given the realities of Britain’s expansionary push into the West Indies from the days of the expeditions of Penn and Venables in 1655, really, BDG ?” isn’t it about time that you got accustomed to “them”? But, give me my due when you say: “Other Asian groups though do remarkable well. And of course for balance’s sake poor white children, esp boys are currently hovering near the bottom.” ?” I did make the introduction of your daughter to an achiever Asian.

    Maybe you are just baiting me, and I am the stupid one for biting bait. BDG ?” you seem deep down to be capable of reason and reasonable people aren’t racist – now ?” are they?

    Thanks for replying.

  • BGD

    OK Courtenay, perhaps there was an (unwarranted?) element of flame in my previous response and I’ll avoid that here and attempt a final response to you.

    Britain does have a number of non-European citizens agreed. They do certainly have rights (hence my interest in Craig’s site, torture allegations etc) agreed.

    My issue (and I’ll reign myself in here because I responded to some off-topic comments in this thread and now it seems we’re yet further out again) is that the multi-racial / multi cultural situation has been delivered to the host population as a fait accompli.

    Not just that but a strong element of compulsion comes with it. Laws on regulating behaviour, societal engineering via education, media and the creation of certain taboos etc. Craig’s bussing suggestion is another step in this coercive line for me that I personally don’t agree with.

    Additionally, the non-European population groups are growing at a much faster rate than the host population. This does not bode well for a cohesive society and for the future of liberal (in the JS Mill sense) values and historically evolved political norms.

    Our political system needs a lot of house cleaning but in comparison to some other nations is still a remarkable thing.

    I don’t agree that the current situation now as we have it should be accepted because of what some of my countrymen did in the 17th Century on behalf of elites and before my direct ancestors were even allowed to even vote.

    The globalisation example you made above does not infer the free movement of people. Elements can be processed in one place and others elsewhere.

    Anyway I’ve just responded to a few points made against my original post and will happily ‘let it lie’

  • Courtenay Barnett

    BDG ?” finally I believe that we are debating. Do you mind if I use your first name and call you “B”? Fine, mine’s Courtenay. Not trying to score any points here, and really rising to you because you make valid and worthy observations. So, we can now remain nice and friendly and analytical.

    There are two things that you said that I want to respond to:-

    1. “the multi-racial / multi cultural situation has been delivered to the host population as a fait accompli.”

    2. “The globalisation example you made above does not infer the free movement of people. Elements can be processed in one place and others elsewhere.”

    Multi- racialism

    We live in a multi-racial world, and when people move from their traditional borders into new territory, we have to devise ways to accommodate each other in peace (i.e. I posit that as a moral choice). This observation is as true for England, as it has to be for every other nation on earth ?” if that morality is to be given societal meaning. England has an inheritance of historical economic advantage, so the Eastern Europeans gravitate here to seek a better life in this corner of the EU. The people from the Caribbean, or India or Pakistan, have direct and long associations with England, precisely because England gained historical advantage, and now those same descendants are here to eek out a living wage. There has to be a humane way of accommodating those who come, is what I say. The process of integrating the persons into a viable and peaceful British society is a challenge. But, the fact is that we live in a multi-racial world, and in consequence we find ourselves in multi-racial societies. We can live in such societies in peace, or we can live in belligerent states. The challenge is to find viable public policy strategies to make the peace.


    Actually, the example I used deliberately inferred the movement of capital, and that is how this process of modern globalisation is initially unfolding. If you reflect on Columbus’s move into the “New World” that process involved the movement of people and the accumulation of capital, involving Portugal, Spain, France, Britain etc. Britain’s engagement in this process makes an interesting contrast with America. The Euro-American population had plantations in the South, that country industrialised in the North, then production from slave labour became “history” so to speak. Point ?” the Africans who were slaves were throughout living in the United States. Britain’s plantations, be these sugar plantations or tea plantations were elsewhere ?” overseas. Howevdr, the economic processes of accumulation, whether in the US or Britain, were in economic terms essentially the same. The labour provided the wealth and families like Barings and Barclays ( both names of British banking fame) grew enormously wealthy. The people remained outside Britain during the period of that wealth accumulation, and now some of the descendants of those people are in Britain.

    Your observation:-

    “The globalisation example you made above does not infer the free movement of people.”

    I agree ?” my example did not. But, now I have put people in the picture. The capital moved into Britain, the people initially stayed in their impoverished countries, then fast forward. Recall, it was no less a person than Enoch Powell, who had been involved in inviting immigrants over to do the work post World War 11 that the whites did not want.

    Powell made a speech in parliament, in part about British treatment of the Africans in Kenya, in which he said:-

    “Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, ‘We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home’. We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility”.

    While Powell, and his views on many things are not mine, I merely throw his words out there, with due regard for our line of discussion, and with especial regard for his known controversial views on immigration. Powell denied being a racialist on the lines of ever defining a racialist as a person who despises another on the assumptions of inherent capabilities he was quite clear and said that by applying that measure, he was not.

    Interesting now, how we arrive at the same challenges, because it is not just the raw capital coming here, but now the people have followed to where the money went.

    I say all that to say this. The previous globalisation did not bring the people here to Britain, and now, what capital did in the past by way of colonialist and imperially imposed global divisions, have now in this round presented the issues here on the streets to be addressed with the distances that separated when Britannia ruled the waves being compressed into issues of daily existence living beside “them”. So, to answer, now I have given and shared my views and special interpretation of elements, to twist your words a considerable amount, elements which I have tried to process historically to give new meaning to your sentence ?” “Elements can be processed in one place and others elsewhere.”

1 2 3

Comments are closed.