My detestation of the urban sub-culture which spawned the recent crime wave is longstanding. It is ugly, self-centred, materialistic and vicious, and in large part imported from the United States. Those who disliked my views on the looting, if surprised have not been paying attention in the past.
But the House of Commons debate is managing to look like a manifestation of a still uglier sub-culture. Fat-jowled smug men who look like that caricature of the yeomanry at Peterloo, and shrill unpleasant lean-faced women.
So far they want the revocation of the human rights act, powers to close down Twitter, censorship on the internet, tax allowances for married couples (sic), and have suggested that the killing of Ian Tomlinson was a good example to follow.
By comparison Cameron is coming over as almost sane. But he himself has said that convicted looters should lose their social housing. This is crazed populism. I am in favour of custodial sentences for looters. But the custodial sentence should be aimed at better equipping for participation in society. How on earth can you achieve rehabilitation if you deliberately force homelessness? Putting criminals homeless on the streets will reduce crime? Does anyone really believe that?
Presumably he does not intend to throw family dependants on the street too, or does he?
What stuff am I pushing, Yugo?
That instant response made me think that there is something behind Power otherwise why did LfStL bother.
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Here is a judge who would probably like to restore capital punishment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-14491187
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and Ian Duncan Smith thinks we are seeing the return of the underclass. That is in contrast to the growth in the numbers of super rich presumably.
{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14488486}
Right, Mary, because me and Peter Power are behind the cabal that caused 7/7.
You do realize that Craig Murray called you a conspiraloon, right? How do you square that with your desire to incessantly post your conspiracy theories here?
@ Mary Does anyone know what the reference to the Libyan Embassy is about? Was the shooting of PC Fletcher a black op?
Watch Murder in St James, an excellent documentary regarding the Libyan Embassy Siege, from a distant past when we had investigative programmes which dared question government narratives:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/01/13/18635136.php
Issues raised by the Dispatches programme about the killing of WPC Fletcher were later raised in Parliament by Tam Dalyell on 8 May 1996. Mr Dalyell qualified before Parliament that the programme had been exceptionally well researched and that it had featured the statements from people whose calibre and relevant experience was beyond question or compare. Contributors to Dispatches included a senior ballistics officer of the British Army, Lieutenant Colonel George Styles, and Dr Bernard Knight, a senior and distinguished Home Office pathologist.
Following the shooting of WPC Fletcher, the then Home Secretary, Leon Brittan, immediately ordered an investigation. The results of that investigation have never been divulged to the British public and have remained one of many State secrets kept from the public.
Perhaps the deputy forward controller at the Libyan People’s Bureau siege, Peter Power, might able to shed some light on exactly what happened in the case of the killing of WPC Yvonne Fletcher, as well as during his terror rehearsal operation in London on 7th July 2005.
Peter Power is part of the Cabinet Office’s team which is rewriting the present guidelines on crises and riots are considered crises.
“There’s a fear of being seen to over-react,” said Peter Power, a former superintendent in the Met who policed riots in Brixton in south London in 1981 and is now in the government’s Crisis Management Steering Group. “A series of controversial reports have left the police feeling demoralized and emasculated. They don’t know whether they’re a force or a service. What we need now is a force.”
Power questioned whether the prime minister would back officers who took him at his word. “Does he know what that means?” he said. “That means people looting and rioting will end up in hospital. Is he prepared to defend police in those circumstances?”
London Police’s Response to Riots Handcuffed by Force’s History – Bloomberg
Does Peter Power attend COBRA meetings?
The Chapeltown Riots of 1981
1979 Southall Riot
The St Pauls riot
This Brixton riot 1981
The Toxteth riots of July 1981
1981 Chapeltown race riot 1981,
Handsworth race riots 10 July 1981, Birmingham
Brixton, London 1985
Broadwater Farm Riot 6 October 1985,
Tottenham, 1981
Toxteth riots 1 October 1985,
Liverpool, England [20] 1985
Peckham riots 1 October 1985,
Brixton riot 1995
2005 Birmingham riots
Riots are nothing new and no matter the reason for them they will happen again and again and again,because in a world of 6 billion people you can’t please everyone.
Every generation blames the previous one for the mess but nobody has the power to clean it. It is very easy to point and apportion blame but taking the responsibility to actually do something constructive not violent or ill conceived , well, we are all guilty.
Life is a conspiracy, old chum
Life is a conspiracy,
Only a conspiracy old chum,
And we all love a conspiracy!
This chap is hardly a conspiraloon, rather he’s the essence of an exceedingly highly decorated establishment figure.
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https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Frank_Kitson
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He devised the idea and practice of pseudo gangs, agents provocateur and false flag operations used extensively in Kenya, Malaya, Oman, Cyprus and Northern Ireland.
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You can read his most famous book here:
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http://libcom.org/library/low-intensity-operations-subversion-insurgency-peacekeeping
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Or read Gangs and Counter Gangs, by the same author.
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There he details all the things that Ugo and people like Aaoronovich like to poo poo.
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But there it is, in black and white. This is what he advocated. This is what he did.
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I fear that Ugo serves only as a distraction from what’s going on. But then that’s one of the tactics too.
@ Craig,
These types of social disturbances are difficult to come to grips and there are a range of valid thoughts about them:-
1. Looting and stealing other people’s property and burning down homes, shops and stores is criminal ( good place to start – we are agreed on that).
2. There is a general climate of social and economic depression with high levels of joblessness in sectors of the society ( we can say two things on that limb i)this does not give justification to go out and any of 1 above – or – ii) the prevailing socio-economic climate puts attitudes and general outlook in context – nothing to lose – everything to gain – a TV – a mobile or 2 etc).
The general comments on this thread and others related to the topic of the riots – I believe – fall witin the range of 1 to 2.
This chap is hardly a conspiraloon, rather he’s the essence of an exceedingly highly decorated establishment figure.
.
{https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Frank_Kitson}
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He devised the idea and practice of pseudo gangs, agents provocateur and false flag operations used extensively in Kenya, Malaya, Oman, Cyprus and Northern Ireland.
.
You can read his most famous book here:
.
http://libcom.org/library/low-intensity-operations-subversion-insurgency-peacekeeping
.
Or read Gangs and Counter Gangs, by the same author.
.
There he details all the things that Ugo and people like Aaoronovich like to poo poo.
.
But there it is, in black and white. This is what he advocated. This is what he did.
.
I fear that Ugo serves only as a distraction from what’s going on. But then that’s one of the tactics too.
Mary, perceptive as always – some people are paid to monitor and pounce.
Years now of shocking corruption in politics, finance, judiciary and police. And the establishment hypocrites pontificate with, “people have no respect any more!”
But topped just now on TV news, with some pompous Tory politician blustering in Parliament, “The trouble with people today is that too many think they can just do as they please and get away with it!”
And we used to think it was the Americans who didn’t understand irony!
Re-post with corrections and missing words inserted:-
@ Craig,
These types of social disturbances are difficult to come to grips with and there are a range of valid thoughts about them:-
1. Looting and stealing other people’s property and burning down homes, shops and stores is criminal ( good place to start – we are agreed on that).
2. There is a general climate of social and economic depression with high levels of joblessness in sectors of the society ( we can say two things on that limb i)this does not give justification to go out and do any of 1 above – or – ii) the prevailing socio-economic climate puts attitudes and general outlook in context – nothing to lose – everything to gain – a TV – a mobile or 2 etc).
The general comments on this thread and others related to the topic of the riots – I believe – fall within the range of 1 to 2.
Thanks Bridget. ‘Curiouser and curiouser’ as Alice said.
Mary you seemed to have kicked Yugo’s chair there abit too hard, good of him to censure fellow contributors so promptly though. PP seems to crop up whenever there’s something big going on and although seemingly running a private company seems to have jammy fingers in many pies including government.
Herbie you’re right about the ‘state broadcaster’ news output, (they really hate being called that) and the best use of it is as a springboard into further research. I doubt if many of the public even care a hoot what they broadcast. I get the impression that the co-host is just going through the motions for the big bucks but his body language often gives the game away. You have to laugh though when the interviewees don’t play along and ride their own agenda to the frustration of the host. George Galloway is one of my favourites in that role and often slaughters news whores and pimps getting in the way.
@ Craig,
” I am in favour of custodial sentences for looters. But the custodial sentence should be aimed at better equipping for participation in society. How on earth can you achieve rehabilitation if you deliberately force homelessness? Putting criminals homeless on the streets will reduce crime? Does anyone really believe that?”
I have grappling with this issue for quite some time. I find that in response to crime, many people speak, think and and react with emoitions. It is hard to think and act rationally when someone has just been shot or you have just seen your home fire bombed.
The politician is either knowingly “politicking” – or – reacting emotionally and not thiinking the consequences of his recommnedations all the way through.
I agree with your observation Craig.
I know what the problem is too many individuals who think and demand !
Let’s build on, Huxley’s Brave New World, where everyone has and knows their place and a mind suited to that position.
No questioning just blind blissful obedience. Peace at last!!!
This assessment and news report – I believe – is fair and balanced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIA55rLgLVo&feature=youtu.be
Courtenay…
Coming to something in this country when people (including me) have to look to AlJazeera for the kind of independent news we once felt safe in trusting the BBC for.
One man who appeared in court worked full-time at a school as a learning mentor ”earning £1,000 a month and paying £550 rent”.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/london-riots-school-assistant-pleads-guilty
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A 32 year old taking home after rent £450 a month.
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Broken Britain.
I’ve watched that link Courtenay He doesn’t mention about the 16 year old girl being struck by a police baton. Is that story not true?
A report on Channel Four News in some part of London showing the police chasing off bottle throwing EDL supporters made up of white middle aged men .
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What next?
This gave me some satisfaction after seeing her standing up in the HoC spouting her vitriol. Cameron agreed with her of course.
http://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=1061
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You can judge from the comments that she is not very popular to put it mildly.
I fear many young arsonists may simply be seeking minimal qualifications for life at the top:
http://tinyurl.com/3l46h9h
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Andy, EDL supporters have no bottle. Bunch of cowards. Daffodils.
Stefan has an interesting and thoughtful account of the decay in modern Britain using facts rather than the rubbish and bluster you get in this country:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_hk-UuoFjU&feature=relmfu
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{http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tigA5OubpFQ&feature=player_embedded#at=283}
Jonangus – Clegg has not had much to say has he. He was jeered at by the crowd at one location he visited after the trouble had occurred. This in Monday’s Guardian.
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Clegg defended the government’s response to the trouble and condemned what he described as “needless opportunistic theft and violence – nothing more, nothing less”.
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On his first day back in Westminster after his summer holiday Clegg said the violence was “completely unacceptable”. The government stood “side by side with those people in those communities who utterly condemn the violence and the theft”, he said.
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There have been complaints that the government did not have a senior minister in London at the weekend when the rioting broke out. But Clegg insisted that senior members of the cabinet had been in regular contact by phone.
“Was the shooting of PC Fletcher a black op?”
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Mary/Bridget: my understanding is that there is a pesky evidential problem with the case. It is that the post mortem on PC Fletcher’s skull suggested that the bullet did not come from the Libyan embassy. The angle is wrong. There is newsreel footage of PC Fletcher being shot, so we know exactly which way she was facing when the bullet hit her. It seems to have been fired from another building.
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I read this years ago and can’t recall the source. Shall have a google gander.
I doubt if many of the looters were old enough to be householders. Cameron’s threats to throw people out of tenancies are not that convincing.
Though it is of course true that the British government is capable of collective punishment, throwing out the whole family for the sins of the children.
It’s even on her wikipedia page:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher
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Para headed “Ballistics controversy”. It was in her back not her skull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpZ0Kc_Cx_g
Anybody seen this?