Baghdad Conference Photos

by craig on December 18, 2012 9:55 am in Uncategorized

A photo essay here on the Baghdad conference on Palestine, including a very unflattering picture of me!

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  1. Craig, there is a message for you on the previous thread, apparently from Felicity Arbuthnot:

  2. Swanky hotel. Kind of makes you wonder if they’ve got their priorities right. Hey nonny no.

  3. The salty sea dog look -not bad.

  4. How about the caption underneath the photo? It makes Craig sound like a naughty school boy, or at least the Google translation does, and the subject of the book is stated incorrectly too if it is a reference to Burnes.

    Craig Murray in a short speech. Murray lost his post as British Ambassador in Uzbekistan for insubordination. Now he writes a book about the Middle East

  5. Nice tie mate !

  6. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Dec, 2012 - 12:39 pm

    Shame the info is in German.

    At least I am glad to see that you Mr Murray still look good, healthy and full of energy – similar to when you challenged government thugs in Uzbekistan.

    As of Baghdad, it looks like peaceful city with few police check blocks and at least one grand hotel.

    But as you said in your previous blog it is worse than Uzbekistan, which I have no reason not to believe you. It can add to the thesis that order comes before democracy and freedom and it is not possible to build free and liberal society in disorder. One also should question whether it was worth removing one tyrant to replace it with another tyranny that emerges from disorder that caused million of lives. Something I am sure intellectuals in Central Asia (and in Uzbekistan in particular) are asking themselves.

  7. @ Mary 12.02pm – I agree, there’s a wealth of mischaracterisation in that caption.

    O/T, but of general interest to the blog’s readership, I think. (Below has been reasonably well-reported yesterday but I’ve seen no mention of it here, so just in case you’ve all missed it…)

    A new way to donate to Wikileaks, the Freedom of the Press Foundation, has been set up by such luminaries as Daniel Ellsberg, Glenn Greenwald, John Perry Barlow and Trevor Tim of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Micah Lee and others. It’s quite clever in that Wikileaks is ‘bundled’ with other deserving free press causes and you use a slider to set who gets how much and your donation just appears on credit card or bank statements as “Freedom of the Press Foundation” (tax deductible in the States too). Here’s the link:

    More details here:

    Crowd-Funding the Right to Know:


    New press freedom group is launched to block US government attacks:

    and here:

    Group Launches to Encourage Transparency & Aggressive Journalism, Help WikiLeaks Survive Blockade:

  8. Britischer botschafter. I like it. Always need a bot shafter here!

  9. Possibly Major Breaking News

    Conflicting reports now that Iraqi President Talabani is dead. Other reports say in a coma.


    BREAKING NEWS: IRAQ PRESIDENT DEATH Local media: Iraq President Jalal Talabani dies after stroke

  11. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Dec, 2012 - 2:26 pm

    Interesting. Nothing on BBC about Talabani’s death.

    Is it because British Armed Forced withdrew from Iraq and whatever happens there is no British public’s concern anymore? Even death of the president which could cause some political turmoil?

  12. Uzbek,

    BBC reporting he is “in coma after stroke” – yes they put it in quotes.

    Iraqi President Jalal Talabani ‘in coma after stroke’

    Iraqi President Jalal Talabani is said to be in a coma in hospital after officials and media reported he had suffered a stroke.

    A statement on his website said President Talabani was in a stable condition and was being treated for blocked arteries.

    Well-placed Kurdish sources say he remains in a coma.

  13. Kind words about Tony from Gilad

    “Palestinian officials say Tony Blair shouldn’t take it personally, but he should pack up his desk at the Office of the Quartet Representative in Jerusalem and go home. They say his job, and the body he represents, are “useless, useless, useless”.’

    But Tony actually prefers to dwell in Jerusalem. Being a war criminal, it is much safer for him to stay in the Jewish capital. Also Tony isn’t really useless, he is actually very useful for some – Tony is not a Sabbath Goy, he actually serves his minders 24/7..

  14. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Dec, 2012 - 3:12 pm

    Well, one would have thought that Tony from Gilad is devoted Catholic.

  15. “it is much safer for him to stay in the Jewish capital”

    There isn’t a Jewish capital. Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine. The capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.

  16. OT: But there are many in the industry who think the USA is exaggerating its shale gas an oil resources.

    The USA is still a net importer of natural gas (mainly from Canada) and for now even the US Energy Information Administration thinks the shale gas boom has levelled off. See projection at

    Arthur Berman has argued on The Oil Drum that the decline actually started some time ago and only “dubious” production estimates EIA are holding it flat.

    Drilling count for gas has collapsed with the US price collapse. The wells were drilled expecting a very minimum price of between $6 and $8 per million btu (more than twice current US trade price). Current UK price is 66p/therm = £6.60 per million btu = $10.71 per million btu.

    So while it is true that US bulk natural gas is currently about 1/3rd of the UK price it is almost certain the US price will rise back up over $8 before drilling picks up again.

    Prior to the drilling of the current shale gas “boom” US bulk natural gas price reached higher prices than the current UK rate and are probably headed that way again over the next few years.

    Fracking isn’t all it’s fracked up to be.

  17. To lighten things up a little : what do Tory luminaries David Cameron, William Hague and Jeremy Hunt, bust flushes Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper and James Purnell, eager young thrusters like Ed Miliband and Rachel Reeves, and the two HoC resident rottweilers the Eagle twins (Angela and Maria) have in common?

  18. Reading again about US aggression in Iraq makes shooting schoolkids look like toast and honey.

  19. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Dec, 2012 - 12:38 am

    Except it was a largely Jewish neighborhood, Guano. Blamed on Aspergers…..harddrive on he boy’s computer destroyed….Mother a survivalist……Dad connected with Aurora Co, shooter from 1 year ago……connected to LIBOR………synchronicity is a falsehood which must be debunked by all rational human beans.

  20. This Israel friendly sentence is ALWAYS included in a BBC report on settlement building.

    ‘The settlements are considered illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this.’

    17 December 2012 Israel approves East Jerusalem settlement plans The Ramat Shlomo plans caused a diplomatic incident when they were
    published in 2010

    The Israeli authorities have approved plans to build 1,500 more homes at a Jewish settlement in East Jerusalem.

  21. Yet Netanyahu continues with these plans in spite of his main donor’s objections…..

    US condemns Israel plan to build settler units in East al-Quds
    Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:22AM GMT

    The United States has criticized the Israeli regime’s plan to construct some 1,500 illegal settler units in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

    US State Department spokesman Victoria Nuland criticized the Tel Aviv regime on Monday for its decision to construct more settler units in East al-Quds (Jerusalem).

    Nuland called on the Israeli authorities to refrain from “unilateral actions,” saying that Washington’s stance regarding the construction of illegal settlement has not changed.

    The remarks came after Israel gave the initial approval for the construction plan on Monday.

    In reality, Obama is only maintaining through a pretence.

  22. Correction there. In reality, Obama is only maintaining a pretence.

    I had written ‘In reality, Obama is only going through the motions’ but decided that, as there was a double meaning, I should change it!

  23. English Knight

    19 Dec, 2012 - 7:07 am

    Agent Cameron is increasingly bold and strident about support for his Israeli ilk and sponsors. Political suicide one would think, with the election only two years away (incl the Scots referendum), let alone causing a wipe-out of his Lib-Dems partners, who may be seen as willing participants in the Israel firsting jamboree. With the Queen attending cabinet, mebbe Agent C is emboldened by being privy to some very inside information. A combined across party vote of the Friends, and Fans of gay marriage (which he is also pushing for) should be enough to delay an election – during Syria/Iran war time?!!

  24. Cherie Blair: ‘It’s always been about women and girls’

    Still the only PM’s wife to work full-time while her husband was in office, trailblazing barrister, campaigner and frequent media target Cherie Blair gives a rare interview to the Guardian

    WTF? Rare interview? It is not very long ago that she was sitting on a BBC World Service sofa spouting the same stuff to an adoring and impressionable Zeinab Badawi.

    Who funds her anyway? Tony? His rich pals in Tel Aviv or the US?

  25. I can answer my own question.

    ‘Yet her foundation, which raised £4m in its first three years from blue-chip companies (such as Vodafone) as well as the Blairs themselves, has been busy with mentoring and technology projects helping women in Africa, Asia and the Middle East. The day after she launches a software project in India, the Guardian is granted a 20-minute interview to talk about the foundation’s work in Cherie’s stately private office.’

    Yeah right. One is Vodafone who avoid paying their taxes. Upchuck time when you see who the other ‘donors’ are.

  26. It gets even funnier when you see who the CEO worked for in Jerusalem.

    I must say these people excel at self promotion.

    PS I suppose Vodafone don’t make a Nigerian Naira from the text messaging service!

  27. Mary, I know nothing of the situation in Nigeria, but in the UK, text messaging is ludicrously overpriced, a rip-off comparable with ink cartridges. My “Pay As You Go” account charges me £0.15 for each text of 140 characters. At that rate, a typical Internet connection with a 10GByte download limit would come to about £10,000,000 per month. That’s not exaggeration for effect; do the maths; one byte equals one character. “Packages” and “bundles” can work out tens or hundreds of times cheaper, but that’s easily subsumed in that factor of one million.

    Ink cartridges – £20 to £30 for 0.06 litre of coloured water in the sort of plastic box you’d throw away if was a disposable lighter. It makes you realise just how cheap petrol and other fuels are, at about £0.50 per litre before tax, cheaper than most bottled water.

    Looking at figures like those, the various companies have so much room for competing by undercutting each other, I can’t believe that these are “free markets”.

  28. Sorry, liquid hydrocarbon fuel is about £0.60 per litre before tax – for a substance that has to be drilled out from miles below ground either in deep ocean or a war zone.

    So taxpayers pay for the monetary cost of war, foreign civilians and Western military personnel pay with their lives, and future generations pay in ecological damage. The hydrocarbon companies make a large profit, but the corporate system and Western society still get the cheap bulk fuel price they’re addicted to.

  29. Nine weeks, £2m (apparently) and several 5 litre cans of Dulux Best Whitewash later, the Pollard report on the BBC Savile coverup completely exonerates ex DG Thompson, criticises some minor members of the BBC establishment, yet the senior news management people like Boaden appear to be staying put. Shocking that nobody has been sacked. Most move sideways if at all. Mitchell has resigned.

    I think we can agree with Pollard that the BBC is ‘seriously flawed’.

    Patten was tetchy again. He is appallingly arrogant and should get the push. How can a trust like the BBC’s both regulate and manage. Shut it down immediately.

  30. At long last those brave men in the Arctic convoys get medals and recognition, or rather the few who survive do. They went through horrific conditions. I believe they wear white berets which makes their contingent in the Remembrance Day parade noticeable.

  31. I wonder whether any of the regular commenters on this blog – ever ready and rapid to home in on mal- or misfeasance on the part of the UK and US governments and on the part of various individuals – will be raising their voices to expresss their disgust and revulsion at the barbarous killing by the Taliban, in Pakistan, of volonteer health workers working on a polio eradication programme?

    Should I hold my breath?

  32. You can’t rightly blame them for not trusting our vaccination programs.

    If we could just persuade America not to abuse medical programs to murder people they don’t like they might start trusting us.

  33. Habbabkuk,

    I’ll let the Daily Mail explain it to you

    Taliban shoot dead THREE MORE polio aid workers in ‘revenge campaign’ for fake vaccination ruse that helped capture Osama bin Laden

    Horror killings follow earlier murders of five women across country
    Aid workers were giving polio jabs as part of 3-day vaccination drive
    Taliban claim the campaign to immunise children is a cover for U.S. spies

  34. I would have said what you said Anon and Fred.

    Habbakkuk Could we have the answer as to what those people you listed have in common?


    For info. The Medialens editors have picked up that Aitkenhead interview with Julian Assange that Craig also commented on.

    Latest Alert: The Illusion Of Democracy – Liberal Journalism, Wikileaks And Climate Deceptions

  35. Sorry misspelt Habbabkuk.

  36. The answer, Mary, is that they all read PPE at Oxford. Which makes me wonder if having a PPE degree from Oxford shouldn’t disqualify people from national public office.

  37. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Dec, 2012 - 5:22 pm

    “You can’t rightly blame them for not trusting our vaccination programs.”

    Fred; There’s vaccination programs, then there’s vaccination ‘pogroms’, ya know/

    Adam Lanza was reportedly mildly autistic/aspergers…….

    The meteoric rise in cases indicates something other than evolution is going on.

    Thimerosal is still being used in adult vaccinations, and it is, ostensibly an inert form of mercury.

    Mercury/heavy metal poisoning mimics that of autism/aspbergers, but that’s just a coincidence.

    No chance it could be exacerbating the toxic chemicals in our food chain, water supplies and breathable air….is there?

  38. It’s a fine photo IMO.

    This may be a bit off topic but I have some info i’d like to share, maybe find out if anyone knows anything about it.

    I was getting into some of Harry Fear’s work recently and amongst other things it led me to some good anti-Islamophobia stuff (well needed as our establishment seems riddled with it) Anyway it got me thinking about something I learned about…I know someone who knows someone etc etc, who is claiming job-seekers allowance because he SAYS he just can’t stand the sight of dark skinned people and he starts getting crazy or whatever (I don’t know details but this is the basic picture) . I just wonder if this is a common policy, letting people use racism as an excuse not to enter the workplace, and getting paid for it with benefits.

  39. “Thimerosal is still being used in adult vaccinations…

    Mercury/heavy metal poisoning mimics that of autism/aspbergers…”

    No it isn’t (apart from trace amounts in the flu vaccine) and no it doesn’t. The supposed culprit for autism, the MMR vaccine, never contained any thimerosal because thimerosal is a preservative and MMR is a LIVE vaccine; it doesn’t need a preservative. Thimerosal was phased out in the 1990’s anyway.

    Nobody ever died of autism unlike people who get heavy metal poisoning.

    I thought we’d exposed this nonsense years ago.

  40. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Dec, 2012 - 6:06 pm

    “No it isn’t (apart from trace amounts in the flu vaccine”

    I think the flu vaccine is an ‘adult’ vaccine, which I specifically differentiated. Yes, thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines…..and why was that?

    Why is Thimerosal used now? Why was it ever used? As a preservative, which is the correct portion of your comment. Why is it necessary as a preservative? Why, because it creates more profit for the manufacturers. Single-dose ampules don’t need a preservative, as do multiple-dose ampules.

    Cost-per-unit… know…packaging. That’s why a smaller box of biscuits costs more than a large one per oz of product……packaging costs.

    Why do heavy-metal poisoning symptoms mimic autism/aspergers? Now, THAT”S a harder question to answer, but for those who tend to distrust our governmental/bureaucratic betters, it is a base-line of suspicion. All others, go back to sleep.

  41. Thimerosal was removed to allay public concern, there was, and still is, no scientific proof it was ever dangerous. There’s more mercury in a tin of tuna than there ever was in a vaccine but I’ve never seen it suggested that eating tuna causes autism. Preservatives are needed in killed vacines to give them a longer shelf life, to prevent them becoming stale and useless before they can be used.

    Heavy metal poisoning does not mimic autism. Find me someone who ever died from autism.

    I thought we’d exposed this nonsense years ago. Of all conspiracy theories it’s one of the most dangerous; it not only discouraged the gullible from getting potentially life saving vaccines it’s resulted in unscrupulous con-men offering chelation therapy as a cure for autism.

    I’m pleased to see though that uptake for MMR is increasing year on year which suggests the “antis” are becoming an ever smaller minority.

  42. unFitWatcher

    19 Dec, 2012 - 8:32 pm

    Plebgate? The police are so habituated to lying—& getting away with it—they framed a Cabinet minister. Here’s the evidence. (Be sure to watch the video):
    An added irony. Michael Crick, the man who brought down Archer, was for years Newsnight’s most experienced investigator. This would have been a Newsnight not a C4 News scoop—had not the now disgraced Newsnight boss Rippon ‘let Crick go’ not long after he suppressed the truth about Savile.
    At a cost of £2 million, a report published today into Rippon’s Savile suppression reveals he told Paxo: ’44 year old contestable claims about a dead guy are not a NN story and not worth the fuss.’
    Fear not. The bungler’s legacy lives on. Rippon replaced Crick with ConDem publicist & traducer of the poor Allegra Stratton. Under Rippon’s supervision, Stratton won her spurs as Political Editor by painting a 23-year-old single mother from Hackney as a housing benefit scrounger since the age of 16. Turned out Shanene Thorpe had in reality been either studying or in work the whole time. She’s employed by Tower Hamlets Council & is forced to claim benefit only because the council doesn’t pay her enough to cover her rent. That was the real story. That was last April.
    Rippon was forced months later to broadcast an on-air apology only because of an online petition signed by 28,000. Stratton herself has never explained her actions, nor has she apologised to this day. She’s still Newsnight’s political editor. Still faithfully recycling handouts from Call Me Dave & Boris. That’s the fearless reporter who replaced Michael Crick!

  43. Well, I’m glad I didn’t hold my breath…

    So, Fred, Anon and Mary, it’s OK that the barbarous Taliban should murder innocent polio vaccination volonteers because the Americans may – repeat may – have used some medical program as a way of finding Osama bin Laden?

    If that’s what you’re implying – and it’s difficult to read your comments any other way – then you are truly without shame.

  44. UK Military satellite Skynet 5D launches in 10 mins – or blows up possibly. Live at

  45. The world is a shit place right now, in hindsight we would do things alot differently right.

    The potential for, is all we need in our reflections of how things are.
    If you can not understand any assumptioms of a world without needless consumerism, greed and the fabric of war.

    Bother off.

  46. Habbabkuk

    No of course it is not “OK”. It is called “blow-back” and if you’ve never heard of that then I’m a banana. The Taliban also fear there may be additional “special projects” running under cover of the vaccination programme.

  47. You are correct UnFitWatcher. I signed that petition for Shanene and was pleased that she received an apology. If she was a peeress of the realm she would have also received damages similar to Lord McAlpine’s reported £185,000. Wait for the licence fee to rise following these payouts, redundancy payments and costs of the various reports (Pollard’s said to be £2m). Several other investigations are still taking place.

    All the decent investigative TV programmes have gone. Panorama and Newsnight have hit the bottom and are shadows of their former selves. On ITV there used to be World in Action. We still have Dispatches on Channel 4.

  48. What on earth (or not) is “Cameron Cutie” Penny Mordaunt MP doing sitting in the launch viewing gallery in French Guiana. She was only elected as an MP in 2010 and now she is supervising top secret military satellite launches? Nice work.

    Anyone else recognise any one else in the gallery? Camera just happened to zoom in on her.

  49. Habbabkuk

    It’s their country and it’s under attack, I wouldn’t presume to be telling anybody what they can or can’t do to defend it. That would be interfering in their internal affairs. America has certainly given them good cause to not trust vaccination programs.

    What the American and British governments are doing to other people’s countries, that is a different matter.

  50. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Dec, 2012 - 10:58 pm

    Jeez.. Do they really have to call it Skynet?

  51. Habbabkuk,

    Was it ok that the UK sent Dutch resistance volunteers into Holland by parachute even though it was known that they would be captured and quite likely killed as their mission was compromised (by a double agent who had to be protected for “greater” reasons) before it even began. Signals Intelligence knew something was up – especially when morse traffic from agents contained the “compromised” codes and in one case was even signed off “HH” “Heil Hitler”. Despite all this the order was given to send more brave Dutch volunteers to their deaths,

    These ritual sacrifices were only brought to an end by a “mutiny” in bomber command which was losing an “impossibly” large number of aircraft on the drop missions.

    I’m curious as to whether you think that was justified or not.

  52. Ben,

    The UK picked “Skynet” for its military sats back in the 60s. It was the movie that stole the name. Or maybe the writers know something we don’t :-)

  53. Felicity Arbuthnot

    20 Dec, 2012 - 7:45 am

    Re Palestinian and other prisoners in Iraq and their woeful plight:

    129 have been executed this year with a further 24 said to be executed before Christmas.

    Best, f.

  54. Unflattering? No, as gorgeous as ever, Craig.

  55. For a moment I thought that was Craig in the first photo wearing a dog-collar. My God, I thought, he’s joined the priesthood! Then I scrolled down.

    See some of you tonight outside the Ecuadorian Embassy.

  56. @Anon,

    I wonder if that was the loose basis of the film “Soldier of Orange” (; I saw it a very long time ago, and so had long forgotten all about it, but your Post about the Dutch resistance volunteers reminded me of it instantly.

  57. Can I give a shout-out for John Goss, for this fantastic article nabbing the Swedish Ambassador to Australia for his personal role in the Swedish/ CIA extraordinary renditions?

    How Sweden Collaborated With CIA on Renditions and Framing of Assange:

    I’m looking forward to meeting you tonight, John. :)

  58. Anon yesterday 10.04pm Mordaunt ‘trains with the Royal Navy Reserve’. She is in place for a reason.

    I have noticed her before. Girl’s Own type. Just the sort Agent Cameron needs around him.

    An associate of Hanover Communications. A very successful lobbyist for NHS privatisation. viz

  59. @ Fred : “It’s their country and it’s under attack”.

    What does “their” mean – are you trying to say that Pakistan is the Talibans country?

    @ Anon : you could ask me for my opinion about a thousand and one matters. Why not ask me a question about what I posted on?

  60. Heard on BBC radio early in the morning : Northern Ireland police have arrested and are charging a suspect in the case of the prison worker who was shot dead on the way to work last November (the first such killing for over 20 years).

    I’m sure you’ll all agree that this is splendid news.

  61. Habbabkuk

    Well I sure as hell aint seeing it on any maps of America.

    I can understand why the people in the tribal regions don’t want America building a DNA database of their population, America doesn’t seem to have any qualms about wiping out an entire wedding party to get one man.

  62. Fred – you obviously can’t bring yourself to condemn the killing by the Taliban (NOT “the population of the trbal areas”) of medical volonteers, can you.

    Which illustrates my point rather well, I think : when the Americans or Brits kill someone, that’s evil; when the Taliban, or IRA, or any other groups for which you are the apologists, kill someone, why, that’s always justifiable.

    Shame on you.

  63. Habbabkuk, your attempt to shame people does nothing to further any argument, nor does it clarify any situation, nor supply evidence for any debate.

    In our supposed democracy, people criticise their own “side”. It is called protest and dissent. It is intended to oppose injustice and wrongdoing.

    I cannot see what condemnation of the Taliban would achieve, except to provide yet further justification for NATO attacks, and there is plenty of that already in the corporate media. Your argument seems intended to discredit dissenters, so I ask you, do you approve and encourage these NATO wars against people in far away lands? Do you approve of disguising spying as medical programmes?

  64. We have condemned Taliban violence more than once here and the name in medical volunteer rather gives it away. He has volunteered to be in that area and knew that it was violent and with a heightened risk of being killed.

    Those ten children who came across a unexploded mine from the past and got killed by it, some say it was an old Russian device, are a far more valid comparison. As the US is using indiscriminate responses to situations that can be evaluated better and longer, they themselves and all that work for them or NGO’s will have to accept that they are not wanted any more, not just by the Taliban, but by all other Afghan tribes and pashtun’s across the border in Pakistan.

    What difference does it make, if we would make a fuss about volunteers, here, who risk and loose their life’s for a good cause over there?

  65. Habbabkuk, if it is of any help to you, I condemn violence, by the Taliban and whoever, against medical and other peaceful volunteers. If you want me to go further and declare them barbarians or something, sorry, I refuse; I think that there are a lot of bad circumstances, and people and organisations like the Taliban are reacting; probably inappropriately and irrationally, but reacting in a typically human way nonetheless.

    Ultimately, those with the greatest power have to carry the greatest portion of the responsibility. Part of the great power structure lies here in the UK, with its membership of NATO and its alliance with the United States, reading media in the English language and no doubt monitoring blogs like this one to assess public opinion.

    This member of the public’s opinion is that my “elected representatives” behave abominably, and I object to them using my ability to vote as a justification for their provocative and violent foreign policy.

  66. Clark, I really don’t think that your former position as a moderator entitles you to adopt that lofty tone. In reply;

    @ your 1st para : the “shame on you” is not part of my argument, it is my conclusion.

    @ your 2nd para : ah, I see, one should only criticise one’s own side, eh? Well, here at least you seem to be illustrating my point – US or UK murders : bad (and must be condemned), Taliban murders : better avoid question if good or bad (and must not be condemned wherever possible).

    @ your 3rd para : condemnation of the Taliban might achieve the following – it might convince people that you are against murder no matter who commits it. And the answer to your two questions (which set up straw men, don’t they) is no and no.

    Anyway, let’s end this now : the various responses to my original comment tell me all I need to know about your moral compass(es). I recommend a course of George Orwell.

  67. Habbabkuk,

    >Did we just kill a kid?

    These moments are like in slow motion,” he says today. Images taken with an infrared camera attached to the drone appeared on his monitor, transmitted by satellite, with a two-to-five-second time delay.

    With seven seconds left to go, there was no one to be seen on the ground. Bryant could still have diverted the missile at that point. Then it was down to three seconds. Bryant felt as if he had to count each individual pixel on the monitor. Suddenly a child walked around the corner, he says.

    Second zero was the moment in which Bryant’s digital world collided with the real one in a village between Baghlan and Mazar-e-Sharif.

    Bryant saw a flash on the screen: the explosion. Parts of the building collapsed. The child had disappeared. Bryant had a sick feeling in his stomach.

    “Did we just kill a kid?” he asked the man sitting next to him.

    “Yeah, I guess that was a kid,” the pilot replied.

    “Was that a kid?” they wrote into a chat window on the monitor.

    Then, someone they didn’t know answered, someone sitting in a military command center somewhere in the world who had observed their attack. “No. That was a dog,” the person wrote.

    They reviewed the scene on video. A dog on two legs?

    Your fake moralising reminds me of Peter Hitchens.

  68. I find Habbabkuk’s demand that people condemn atrocities committed by the Taliban, very infantile, very shameful, & most of all, very revealing; what is the fundamental difference between asking this, and asking that people condemn the recent mass murders carried out by Adam Lanza ? I take it that Habbabkuk has not asked the latter because he realizes that all normal rational people would feel insulted (at the very least), that they would need to be asked such a question, and the exactly same applies to iro the former; does Habbabkuk really expect us to believe that he actually thinks that anybody here supports the murder of innocents ?!

    Sorry Habbabkuk, I for one, am not that gullible, and I see straight through your fake self-righteousness.

  69. a nice story here.

    a quote “Let what I’m about to say to you act as a warning,” Roedel said. “Honor is everything here.”

    Mr Murray’s kith and kin, honor.
    Thank you Sir. You’re the kind of knight we need.

  70. Macky : I didn’t ask commenters to condemn Adam Lanza because Adam Lanza has no connection with the sorts of subject that get a regular airing on this blog and in particular American/British actions in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    I have no idea whether any of the regular commenters supports the murder of innocents if carried out by the Taliban. I should hope not, but it would be nice to hear it from time to time. But that wouldn’t fit with the narrative you’re following, would it?

    Oh, and by the way, that reminds me : commenters here are remarkably silent about noble Arab killing noble Arab in Iraq, aren’t they?

  71. Habbabkuk

    My conscience is clear so you can find someone else to preach your twisted morals at.

    Quite frankly I couldn’t give a damn what you think of me.

    We went and invaded Afghanistan in 2001, caused one hell of a lot of death misery and suffering in that part of the world of which this latest incident is no doubt a part. When we stop going over their and firing death at them from unmanned drones then I might start condemning them for any violence on their part but I aint gonna condemn them for it when we caused it.

    Put your own house in order before you start criticising others.

  72. Well said Clark, Anon, Fred, Macky and Nevermind. Our Old Testament friendly prophet has obviously never had a relative shredded or burned by a Hellfire sent down from a drone. He would have an argument with himself in a broom cupboard anyway.

    That is my ten pennyworth.

    Speaking of pennies, did you know that the BBC payouts to the likes of Mark Byford, Caroline Thomson and George Entwistle to name just three, total over £4m so far. The MPs with their expenses fiddles look amateur in comparison. Wait for the licence fee to rise.

    Did you notice that the news programmes and Newsnight were all attenpting to sound censorious about the BBC goings on, including someone saying …’There should be blood on the carpet and there isn’t as nobody has been sacked’…? I found it quite humorous that they could utter this type of tripe.

  73. You’re right. That dog collar doesn’t suit you at all.

  74. Habbabkuk, it is my resignation as a moderator that entitles me to adopt whichever tone I choose; there is no longer any requirement that I be moderate, and my comments can be deleted just like anyone else’s.

    You wrote:

    “I have no idea whether any of the regular commenters supports the murder of innocents if carried out by the Taliban.”

    Sorry, but I don’t believe you. Firstly, I condemned killing of innocents in my comment. Secondly, no one objected when I did so. But mostly, I think it is entirely obvious that the majority of contributors here are humane, conscientious, and object to killing and the infliction of suffering, and I don’t believe that you are so lacking in sensitivity that you fail to notice that; I think you’re merely attempting to cast aspersions.

    Broom cupboard. Yes. Daft as a brush.

  75. I saw this thought-provoking exhibition of May Ayres’ brilliant ceramic sculptures last year at a disused church in Bethnal Green, which was an appropriate location. God’s Wars. Indeed and May will never be asked to exhibit at a gallery like the Tate Modern. I think Bliar attempted to hire that for his book launch but backed out when news got out and the protests started. Slideshow here

    That is Negroponte seated near the beginning. The figure with two faces in the glazed black jacket is Bliar kneeling. The ground is covered in faces and body parts. You can almost hear the screams. What did we do and what are we still doing?

    From her comments book –
    ‘The hell of men’s making is powerfully and rivetingly expressed. At the same time you draw and shape tenderness into the work. An extraordinary exhibition.’

  76. @ Habbabkuk, “Adam Lanza has no connection with the sorts of subject that get a regular airing on this blog”

    A person’s moral principles don’t change with the weather, or even on what is or isn’t discussed here.

    “I have no idea whether any of the regular commenters supports the murder of innocents if carried out by the Taliban.”

    Thanks for the repeat & disgusting insult; if you really honestly think that there is the slightest possibility of that being true of anyone here, then you really are as stupid as you appear to want to be considered as.

    “but it would be nice to hear it from time to time”

    No, what you really want to hear is people condemning Afghans for resisting Western occupation & associated murderous brutality.

    “commenters here are remarkably silent about noble Arab killing noble Arab in Iraq,”

    Actually no, but unlike you, they realize that this is the poisonous legacy of the successful & deliberate Western policy of instigating sectarian strife in order to divide & rule; old Imperial tactic, from Ireland to India to Cyprus to Palestine, etc, bloody, etc

    I haven’t seen you post anything about Africans killing fellow Africans, so shall I assume that you are a racist & so doesn’t care about Blacks ?

  77. Good on Miles Goslett, a freelance journalist for standing his ground against Patten yesterday. As I have said, Patten is very arrogant. What dead cold eyes and what about the admonishing palm forward hand gesture. ‘Don’t dare to question me’ he is saying. Miles Goslett has been on Thompson’s case for a while. He got Patten rattled who swept off afterwards.

    Note the creep Whittingdale supports Patten here. He would wouldn’t he? See Craig

    ‘Meanwhile, Labour MP Barry Sheerman called for Lord Patten to resign, telling the Commons he was shocked to hear the BBC Trust chairman describe the PAC report as “unfair and shabby”.

    But chairman of the culture media and sport select committee, John Whittingdale, said he did not believe Lord Patten should go, and called for a “fundamental overhaul of the management structure at the BBC”.’

  78. Assange Christmas Speech

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    An apocalypse (Ancient Greek: ἀποκάλυψις apocálypsis, from ἀπό and καλύπτω meaning 'un-covering'), translated literally from Greek, is a disclosure of knowledge, hidden from humanity in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, i.e., a lifting of the veil or revelation.

  79. While on knights on our lionhearted host’s blog.

    Knights of the Gutter..

    Hope her majesty got some ‘satisfaction’.
    If Sir Mick, et al, couldn’t, it was surely not for want of trying..

    After the cabinet meeting a quiet dinner with the Bullingdon Club?

    Fidei defensatrix.’ Defender of the faith’.
    What faith? In the moral superiority of old Etonians?

  80. Stop feeding the fucker.


    Haha that’s great Mary! Miles Goslett rattles Patton with question about Thompsons knowledge of Savile and connected threat to Newspaper publishing allegations.

  82. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Britain’s Abu Ghraib” <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    MoD pays out millions to Iraqi torture victims

    Lawyers and human rights groups say 400 settlements show 'systemic' abuse –

  83. Israeli death squads involved in Sandy Hook bloodbath: Intelligence analyst

    In truth, the public may well just be sick of hearing stories about “lone gunmen.” Of all possible horrors, this one, even more than the Benghazi killings, is loaded with political implication, not just “gun control,” but a clear attack on the security of every American family.

    Once in a while an issue comes along that makes Americans look inward at who they are and what they have become.

    This is one!

  84. I just got back from the Ecuadorian embassy. It all got me a bit down because I failed to get close enough to hear Assange’s address, and I failed to meet John Goss and Arbed. However, I did have a nice chat with a woman called Jenny from an acoustic band called The McClean Clan who were playing and singing Christmas carols at the side of the road.

    London. All the people sit on public transport reading from their corporate propaganda sheets. Why don’t they talk to each other? They could be telling each other small truths from their lives instead of soaking up centralised corporate mind-warp. Really, humanity is fucked. It’s all those tiny decisions, read the paper instead of talking, look away instead of making eye contact and smiling…

    Mark Golding, thank you for that definition of “apocalypse”. Happy apocalypse all, starting in about ten minutes… You lot on here are just about my only friends. No one in “real life” wants any honesty; really, they’d run a mile. Humanity deserves to go down the pan.

  85. I agree there Clark. I love making contact with strangers on public transport and exchanging views and ideas, but on the Tube and trains, that is a no no these days. There is no eye contact and they are all busy with their thumbs on their gizmos or reading the Standard or Metro soon discarded as there is little within to ‘read’.

    Even when walking with the dog locally, many walkers, cyclists and runners coming the other way are plugged into earphones and do not respond to a greeting. All very strange. One of the sculptures referred to says it well.

    I think she called it ‘Listening but Not Hearing’, ‘Looking but not Seeing’ we could add.

  86. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 12:45 am


    I have been perusing the inconsistencies from day one. Newtown is largely,a jewish community. Originally, I suspected a reactionary response by Lanza, as to the Gazan children who perished, almost anonymously. Mossad via MK/ultra Monarch mind control also arose in the suspicions, but what would the motive be? I suspect CIA more than Mossad as the need to disarm a population with guns as prolific as the US, (88.8 weapons per 100 persons) made more sense. The connection (LIBOR, GE Capital) between Lanza and the Aurora shooter also made me wonder, but that was a dead-end (so far)

    Back to disarmament….the need to make the streets safe for the Authoritarian, by way of DEMOCRATIC process, letting the PEOPLE disarm themselves by fiat, is by far, the greatest genius, if this is truly a conspiracy.

  87. Mark Golding, prompted by your comment, I went looking for any evidence that Israel was involved in the Sandy Hook school shootings, and found none. I did find eye-witness testimony from some of the children that seems to corroborate the mainstream account. The Veterans Today link could only offer an anonymously sourced e-mail with no references and nothing verifiable that I could find.

    This doesn’t rule out mind-control, of course, but why resort to that explanation, when we live in a society that constantly glorifies extreme violence, especially gun violence, in films, on the news, and in video games? Considering the massive amount of such material it is a wonder that such shootings don’t happen more frequently. The message is reinforced dozens or hundreds of times every day on television; the way to be powerful and a hero is to shoot with a powerful gun.

    In the US, this incident is being used to call for gun control. Mary posted a Wikipedia link about gun violence in the US, and hand guns were involved in several times more murders than weapons suitable for hunting. But the main weapon in this incident was a semi-automatic rifle, a category of weapon only re-legalised eight years ago in the US, see the ninth paragraph:

    “The mayor called for a renewal of the assault weapons ban that president Bill Clinton pushed through Congress in 1994, which also included restrictions on the size of bullet magazines. The Bush administration allowed it to lapse a decade later. Police say that the Newtown killer, Adam Lanza, used a semi-automatic rifle and two handguns.”

    The only advantage of hand guns is that they are easy to conceal, and semi-automatics are combat weapons with no role in hunting. I can’t think of any justification for public ownership of either of these categories of weapon.

  88. That article seems in the same genre as the one which listed MacAlpine in a quite unsourceable cabbage patch parade of evil celebs. It reveals a terrible editorial standard at Veterans Today.

    With 6,500 (?!) USA Veteran suicides a year, i think they could do without it.

  89. Dont let it all get you down planetarians. It is the season of pleasant surprises and toasts. Spring wont be long after. The challenge is to magnify.

  90. Carlton McGee

    21 Dec, 2012 - 8:05 am

    Ambassador Murray, do you, like you commenters, blame Newtown on the Jews?

  91. Clark and John I meant to say well done for going to support Julian. In a TV report the microphone he was using sounded very distorted. Was that the case or was the recording adulterated?

    This is the BBC version.

    Julian Assange: Wikileaks to release ‘million more files in 2013

    ‘Julian Assange: ”My work will not be cowed”

    Related Stories
    Profile: Julian Assange
    Assange to make ‘balcony speech’
    Q&A: Julian Assange and the law

    Wikileaks founder Julian Assange said his work “will not be cowed,” as he promised the whistle-blowing site would release a million more documents.

    In a speech from a balcony at the Ecuadorean embassy in London, he said the files to be published in 2013 would affect “every country in this world”.

    It is six months since he sought asylum to avoid extradition to Sweden over sexual assault claims, which he denies.

    The linked video does not work. There is a message – This content doesn’t seem to be working. Try later. Yeah. Right! Ms Boaden is back.

  92. Mary – thanks for posting the May Ayres slideshow yesterday – powerful stuff indeed.

  93. I see that Agent Cameron is moving on to Oman where BAE have just signed a £2.5bn deal for Typhoons and Hawk trainers. How disgusting that he prostitutes himself as an arms salesman. Oman has a dictatorial Sheikh, a population of just over 2.5 million. Political dissenters are imprisoned.

    Oh I see. ‘Thousands of British jobs are safeguarded’. That’s OK then.

  94. Interesting piece regarding Murdoch and Petraeus in the Guardian.

  95. Clark at 11.38 p.m. last night. I looked for you but to no avail. I’ve only seen your photo on here. But glad you enjoyed yourself. As well as the messages to supporters and reporters I think the most encouraging item from his address was ‘Next year I will be an Australian Senator’ or words to that effect. Herald the day! I got a message from an Australian FB friend saying she would be voting for him.

    Arbed, so good to meet you. Sorry we had to leave when we did but we would have missed our coach otherwise. As it happened the coach was ten minutes late. Such lovely people there don’t you think?

  96. Mary, thanks for the encouragement. Where I was stood we could hear every word. I wonder if the distortion came after the video was uploaded. There are people who would rather JA’s message did not get out.

    And the millions more of files to be released next year covered countries all over the world. Wonderful!

  97. Happy Solstice, everyone!

    That’s it, the 2012 “apocalypse” has been and gone, at 11:11 GMT. If it happened, I somehow missed it.

    “Carlton McGee”, 21 Dec, 8:05 am, want to bet? I bet he doesn’t. How much would you like to stake?

  98. Craig I thought you dye your hair? Is that you in the dogcoller in the first pic?

  99. Arsalan, it’s this photo:

    I think he must have borrowed the tie from Frazer.

  100. Tony Blair made his finest contribution ever:

  101. Loving it Clark! The hangman’s rope is missing though.

    btw the video on the BBC link about Julian is still down. Bastards.

  102. Fred More on that Murdoch Petraeus story from Jonathan Cook.

    Why the Washington Post Killed the Story of Murdoch’s Bid to Buy the US Presidency
    Jonathan Cook / 12/21/2012

  103. Mary, thanks for your support. There were at least five news crews covering Assange’s address, yet the BBC still haven’t fixed their video of the event. Biased paragraph here:

    “A crowd of some 80 supporters gathered outside the building, in Knightsbridge, to listen to the 41-year-old Australian – whose website published a mass of leaked cables embarrassing a number of countries.”

    Merely “embarrassing”, eh? That’ll be why some of the more extreme politicians have accused him of “aiding the enemy” and have called for his murder, a drone strike, or threatened his family. They always do that when they’re “embarrassed”.

    I don’t know how many people were there, but I couldn’t get through and had to go around the block. The police were moving people on and ushering people off of the road and onto the pavements. I was a few minutes late, and found it impossible to get close enough to see or hear; there were loads of people wandering around.

  104. Hi folks!

    I hope everyone has a very merry Christmas!

    Try to have a little bit of fun and a few mince pies.

    I am going to spend my time reading a few books, studying about language and getting boozed up if I can. I’ll try not to get into the kinds of trouble I have in the past, honest.

    I’m thinking about reading a Flashman book or two, maybe a bit of Evelyn Waugh or Kazuo Ishiguro, and perhaps a bit of Mr. Saadi. Speaking of which, I haven’t seen him around here. Where is he?

    Anyway, try to cheer up a little. I sometimes found the atmosphere around here a little bit insufferably gloomy. Just saying.


  105. I estimate about 400 to 500 people at the Assange Christmas message. Perhaps the BBC got there late.

    Some more disturbing news. A Pakistani man, Mr Khan, has been stopped by Lord Justice Moses from finding out if GCHQ is providing the US with intelligence for their drone attacks, like the one which killed his father.

    Although the military might claim that this information is sensitive if GCHQ were not providing that intelligence why would they not deny any involvement? So they are.

    Drones are repulsive. They kill innocent children. They should all be called Herod’s swordsmen. So who is Herod?

  106. Hello Angrysoba, I’m glad you survived the End of the World! Do go and have a look at the Al Hilli threads; I expect you’ll find some wonderful conspiracy theorising to make fun of. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t some nuggets of truth in there as well, though.

  107. Arsalan: “Craig I thought you dye your hair? Is that you in the dogcoller in the first pic?”
    Ye Gads! That looks like Stephen Sizer to me!

  108. Clark: “Do go and have a look at the Al Hilli threads; I expect you’ll find some wonderful conspiracy theorising to make fun of.”
    Hi Clark, unfortunately I don’t know what the Al Hilli threads are. As for conspiracy theories to make fun of, it really is a glutton’s paradise, sometimes. I think the one just north of here, the one about the Israelis being behind Sandy Hook is not much fun at all, but rather boring and depressing. I see that your responses to that suggestion were very good.

    Anyway, I am not sure if I will be posting again here this year so I wish you the best for the new year.

  109. “This is a planetary passenger announcement. Due to a signalling failure at Alpha Centauri, the arrival of Planet Nibiru has been delayed. We apologise for the inconvenience. Those wishing to simulate a pole-shift may stand on their heads on the platform without being suspected of terrorism. Please keep all your belongings with you at all times, or they may be removed or destroyed by security. Thank you.”

  110. Angrysoba, I finally discovered the “Jews are responsible for all evil” crowd you were on about. They don’t state it outright, but the subtext becomes clear after a while; the Illuminati, “The Protocols…”. You have to look earlier in this thread if you want more context, but this is where it started for me:

    Thanks for causing me to question my assumptions about nuclear power. I discovered the story of Alvin Weinberg, the Molten Salt Reactor Experiment, and the reason we have so much nuclear “waste”. I remain opposed to water-cooled solid-fuelled reactors, as did their primary developer:

    “When Weinberg became convinced that reactor safety was an issue of the greatest importance, that loss-of-coolant accidents were not unthinkable, he was punished by the nuclear advocates. In the book Weinberg quotes what, to me, is the most bizarre statement of the whole story. In a conversation about reactor safety, Chet Holifield, then chairman of the Congressional Joint Committee on Atomic Energy, told him, “Alvin, if you are concerned about the safety of reactors, then I think it might be time for you to leave nuclear energy.” Soon after, Weinberg was fired from his job as director of ORNL. That was in 1972. In 1979 Three Mile Island fully justified Weinberg’s concern, setting in motion events that led to much enhanced safety of U.S. reactors but also leading to cancellation of many reactor sales. No new reactor orders have been placed by U.S. utilities since then.”

    More info and links from this site:

    Oops, that site has all changed since I last visited, so I can’t direct you to the article I intended. Anyway, these liquid fuelled reactors run without pressurisation, cease reaction if they spring a leak, and can be designed to burn nuclear “waste”, which is actually fuel that is less than 2% used, the other 98% being our radioactive disposal problem. It looks like there could be thousands of years of electricity generation available, just cleaning up the existing mess. And they can “burn” weapon cores, too:

  111. O/T – some praise for Craig from an unusual source (a partner of Deloitte’s, one of the big accountancy firms):

    Q: Who/what inspires you?

    A: I’m not really into sport, but even the most
    cynical spectator cannot fail to have been
    inspired by the Olympic Games. I cycle to
    work most days, a round trip of 50km, so it
    was especially inspiring to watch some of the
    road cycle races that passed close to my home.

    One of life’s most challenging experiences is
    feeling pressured to make statements you
    think are not wholly true. It is inspirational to
    see people who blow the whistle on bad
    practice, even in the face of commercial
    pressure or active persecution and sometimes
    at the expense of their career.

    Joe Darby, the US sergeant who revealed
    the prisoner tortures at Abu Ghraib, Iraq, in
    2004 is one example. Another is Craig Murray,
    the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan,
    who revealed appalling human rights abuses
    and the inconsistency between our apparent
    support for the Karimov regime while
    attacking Saddam Hussein. Many Russian
    journalists have lost their lives reporting
    abuses that the Kremlin would have preferred
    to keep quiet, with Anna Politkovskaya
    perhaps the leading example. In the financial
    sphere, Jim Demopoulos exposed the Madoff
    pyramid scam to US regulators who didn’t
    want to hear it.

  112. oops sorry, forgot to give page number: page 25 in source given above (PDF)

  113. Angrysoba, the al Hilli threads, over seventeen thousand comments in all, completely dwarfing the unmentionable! Which itself has been expanded since you last visited.

  114. LOL. Did this inspire you Clark? ….Passsengers’ getaway hit by signal failure….

    What is this annual getaway all about? So like the annual migration of the wildebeest to new grazing grounds except here it is a huge waste of fossil fuel so that families can get together to overeat food they don’t really need, drink too much booze and then end up quarrelling with each other.

  115. And yet more of it. Have they nothing else to say or report?

  116. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 3:56 pm


    I guess if we had wanted to take the fun out of the Mayan Apocalypse, we could have shared that link to the new Mayan Calendar found earlier this year, but that wouldn’t be as much fun.

  117. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 4:00 pm

    So, I guess we can just equate Newtown with all the other aberrant nut-case lone shooters throughout the history of the most violent society on earth. Hmm. That sounds like a conspiracy too.

  118. Why would someone kill 20 children?

    Either as a threat, “do as we say or we kill your children”.

    Or for revenge, “I’m killing your children because of what you did to me”.

    After the massacre in Norway people are tending to assume the former and a list of groups that would do such a thing is not very long and unfortunately the Israeli government is on it.

    However I think this one will eventually be proved to be the latter. In America everyone has to be best at something, doesn’t matter what but whatever it is second best isn’t good enough. The poor kids that aren’t actually best at anything tend to get depressed about it so they give them pills to take that screw with their brains. Then they decide they’re going into the history books.

  119. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 4:44 pm

    They weren’t just killed. Reports say each child was shot multiple times with carnage making the classroom look like a demented slaughterhouse. The Horror of it. Part of the point?

  120. Doesn’t sound like mossad, the French Alps murders, that’s more their style.

  121. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 5:16 pm

    I didn’t say Mossad. In fact, I’m highly dubious they had a hand. I think I’m being repetitious, here.

    Have you seen the reports of second perp?

  122. Thanks Clark – connection secured – happy alignment! – in fact a huge awareness is ascending; it seems to begin with Mary’s picture – a very human bodhi.

    To experience this leap in consciousness I suggest one must:

    Question more
    Vaporize ego

    Then amplify the experience and connect. One Mind Won Victory.

  123. Ben

    I’ve seen loads of speculation, that’s all.

  124. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 6:12 pm


    Plenty of sources for the alleged second shooter. If someone was arrested, in error, questioned and released, where is that story?

    I’m not offering the link below with any other recommendation than to read and assiimilate.

  125. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 6:24 pm

  126. Mark Golding, “Question, see, and wonder”; with these I agree 100%.
    “Wait”; yes, when things are yet to be determined. Beyond that, we must act.
    “Vaporise ego”; this is too extreme for most people, and I for one do not aspire to being a monk or a saint; I like sex and drugs and rock and roll. For others like myself:

    “Mental health is an ongoing process of dedication to reality at all costs.”

    Ego, or ones mental model of ones self, is OK so long as one strives for honesty and accuracy, which requires regular self inspection; some religious people achieve this with prayer. The problem is when people people permit their self-image to disguise their true motives, ie. when they think that they’re being honest, but are in fact rationalising, and deceiving themselves at a deeper level; this sort of dishonesty goes undetected by “lie detectors”. I think that many politicians are like this; that is why they seem so sincere while committing such atrocities.

  127. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 6:45 pm

    Clark; There is an alternative which may fit Mark’s and your perspectives on ‘vaporise ego’

    An astrologer, during my reading said ‘you use sex and drugs to demolish the physical world’.

    Voila ! Now that’s no false Samadhi….

  128. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 6:47 pm

    Clark; I’m gonna keep talking to you, until you respond….heh.

  129. Clark – no need to vaporise ego – just recognise and accept it for what it is – a part what it means to be you – significant but not in charge. Nothing wrong with sex, drugs rock n roll. Happy Christmas.

  130. Things.

    Kerry to replace Clinton.

    Dr Kellioh struck off.He lied but the 18 perpetrators of Baha Mousa’s torture and ill treatment walked free. One was convicted.

    Monti resigns.

  131. “What shall a woman, Do with her ego, Faced with the choice, That it go or he go. ”

    Saw it on the Tom Watson twitter feed just now.

  132. “I didn’t say Mossad. In fact, I’m highly dubious they had a hand. ”

    It wouldn’t be any madder than the NRA or certain local Republican politicians wanting to arm the teachers or have armed guards in every school. Why stop there? Why not arm the children too.

  133. mark golding

    21 Dec, 2012 - 8:24 pm

    Thank-you Clark & Rose – interesting. Ben steps up of course; sex, drugz & rock n roll somewhat reveal the illusion of ego. A step too far might invoke the tragedy of Syd Barret!

  134. mark golding

    21 Dec, 2012 - 8:26 pm

    sos Barrett

  135. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 8:32 pm

    Heh. Pink Floyd was a variety of psychotropics, like Purple Owsley, Mark. And MUSIC, even when experienced by the naked self, transports one outside the box to a trance-like state.

  136. …..and the old bag’s bladder was giving trouble.

  137. Rose, Season’s Greetings to you, too. Yes, the critics of society and of the media make a big fuss about human pleasures, yet any amount of fictional slaughter and justification for and encouragement of factual war can proceed unhindered, it seems. Something very sick there, I think.

    Ben Franklin, I remained silent, and you found the debunking yourself. Yes, there is a route to ego revelation and/or diminution through sexual congress, etc.

    As for Syd Barrett; strong psychedelics such as LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin must be treated with the greatest respect, and I doubt that they mix well with fame; sort of pulling in opposite directions. I do not know exactly what went wrong in Syd’s case, but many young people elevated to fame and fortune by the “Music Biz” come to grief, psychedelics or none.

    Best wishes all; I might be off-line for a while. I’m off Norwich way, in a couple of minutes…

  138. And anyone who dislikes Christmas as much as I do can join Richard Stallman in the Celebration of the Physical Laws, Grav-mas:

  139. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 8:57 pm

    The debunking was only wrt the man in camoflauge pants with video of his chasedown in a field.

    The first instance, cited by eyewitness, remains unexplained. That’s the fellow who was cuffed across the street from the Catholic Church. The second instance had the brother as that person in the url. Incorrect. Ryan Lanza was arrested, mistakenly ,in New Jersey, not Conn.

  140. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 8:59 pm

    Let’s see, it’s Happy Christmas and Merry New Year to you , Clark. No big fan of Christmas either.

    After all, what they really celebrate is Ol’ Sol himself…

  141. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 9:02 pm

    Clearly, Sandoz intended lsd to be a medicine, not a food. Clinical studies have been terminally proscribed, thanks to the FunHogs.

  142. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 9:06 pm

    Here I go, again. Dominating the thread…mea culpa.

  143. “and he warns:”

    “‘We stand on the verge of one of the bleakest periods in human history, when the bright lights of civilizations will blink out and we will descend for decades, if not centuries, into barbarity. The elites, who successfully convinced us that we no longer possessed the capacity to understand the revealed truths presented before us or to fight back against the chaos caused by economic and environmental catastrophe, will use their resources to create privileged little islands where they will have access to security and goods denied to the rest of us.’ (p. 197)”

  144. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 11:28 pm

    Guest; I’m getting a shit-load of crap from AmeriKKKan blogs for linking to that. Thank you.

  145. Jonangus Mackay

    21 Dec, 2012 - 11:51 pm

    Hyphen-Howe’s Yer Father.
    All States are ultimately police states. For those who have eyes to see, that fundamental truth about the nature of State power suddenly breaks the surface: a necrotic varicose vein in the raddled leg of Britain’s body politic. Call Me Dave’s spineless response to the (habitual) lies of oh-so-ordinary Plebgate PCs now prompts an obvious/urgent question. When it comes to the crunch, who exactly runs Ukania? Politicians? Or police?

  146. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Dec, 2012 - 11:57 pm

    ” a necrotic varicose vein in the raddled leg of Britain’s body politic.”

    FYI. I’m stealin’ that, as any red-blooded American would do, given half the chance.

    We’ve all been ‘shagged’, as you well know.

  147. @ Ben Franklin,

    “Heh. Pink Floyd was a variety of psychotropics, like Purple Owsley, Mark. And MUSIC, even when experienced by the naked self, transports one outside the box to a trance-like state.”

    You’ve obviously not played Thw Clutha Vaults on a Saturday night in Glasgow Ben have you…;.)

  148. Syd Barrett?

    A hushed up offspring of the Cambridge Apostles.


    You had to be there i guess.

  149. Hallucinogenics were introduced/created by the spooks FFS!

    Wise up y’all.

    The jaded mantra of “drop your ego” was the perfect sublimated excuse to control and manipulate.

  150. Why is an archbishop of the church of england concerning himself with the ‘strength’ of the country’s defences? I thought these church people were supposed to concern themselves with theology and with giving some moral leadership as none of the latter comes from the political classes.

    Sentamu warns defence cuts would ‘risk safety of nation’
    The Archbishop said he does not believe reservists can form the ‘backbone’ of the British armed forces.

    Cuts to the number of full-time military personnel would “risk the safety of the nation”, Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu has warned

  151. Another bigmouth Ann Clywd is telling us all how she has rejected a present from Bahrain, a Fortnum and Mason hamper.

    She is so saintly now. She is one who carried the lie about Saddam’s ‘people shredder’.

    We are not so sure about Mr Conor Burns MP Bournemouth W (mentioned in the Guardian piece) returning the same gift though.

    From his register of interests.
    Name of donor: Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Bahrain Address of donor: c/o The Embassy of the Kingdom of Bahrain, 30 Belgrave Square, London SW1X 8QB Amount of donation (or estimate of the probable value): £3,279 Destination of visit: Bahrain Date of visit: 21-25 October 2010 Purpose of visit: in my capacity as Chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Bahrain I was invited to visit to country to met with Government Ministers and others and to observe the Parliamentary elections that were taking place during the visit. (Registered 16 November 2010)

    He also declares £10k a quarter for 10 hours work a month with Trant Construction. Southampton.

    The Catholic church is also paying him £4000pafor an intern plus accomodation ???

  152. There are bad guys with guns and good guys with guns…. Let the good guys shoot the bad guys, then everyone is dead. Right on Mr Lapierre.

  153. AFAIK the UK is still on course to scrap the European Arrest Warrant at the end of this month.

    A good thing, for reasons obvious to anyone who has followed the courtroom farce that was the Assange extradition appeal. What they should really do is go the whole hog and scrap the 2003 Extradition Act in its entirety – it’s so woefully lacking in proper safeguards against the kind of miscarriages of justice we’ve seen in the Babar Ahmad and Talha Ahsan cases: (duration: 27 mins)

    I bumped into Talha’s brother at the Ecuador embassy speech and promised I’d do what I could to bring a bit more attention to this documentary.

  154. “AFAIK the UK is still on course to scrap the European Arrest Warrant at the end of this month.”

    Difficult as parliament has already risen for the Christmas recess. Actually the situation is more complicated and the UK has until May 2014 to opt out of 140 measures and a transfer of control of EU laws from national governments to the ECJ.

  155. “You gotta have it; if you haven’t, you’ve had it”

    That could – just – be a kind of clue for the following Brain of Britain-type question to the team :

    ‘What is the connection between former minister Jack Straw (Law, Leeds University”) and the list of Labour and Tory luminaries mentioned in Habbabkuk’s question of 18 December (6.16pm)?

    Merry Christmas and great good luck to all!

  156. “Dr. Paul Craig Roberts: America is Going to Crash Big Time .”

    “We have lent a huge amount of money to the U.S. Of course we are concerned about the safety of our assets. To be honest, I am definitely a little worried.”

    Chinese premier Wen Jiabao 12th March 2009

  157. Re: …..and the old bag’s bladder was giving trouble.

    For the pre-obituary:

    There is no such thing as society.
    Greed is good.
    New Labour is my proudest achievement.

    Meanwhile today marks the 10th anniversary of Joe Strummer’s death.

  158. Conor Burns MP who I mentioned earlier photographed with her. Quite telling.

    It came from this website of this crowd who also host the website of the Margaret Thatcher Foundation.

  159. The name that I especislly noted on that list of board members/aka Maggie’s Men is Andrew Knight, chair of a Rothschild entity and also a Murdoch lap dog. Note how Murdoch prised him away from Conrad Black and how Knight belittled one of his wives. Nice type.

    Multiple connections


  160. Maybe Sentanu is jealous of the success with which AlQaida and UK special forces are chewing up and spitting out the dictators while regular forces and regular priests join or bury the dead and wounded with no perceivable benefit or gain.

    In Islam the jihad against dictators is compulsory, a bit difficult for those who were responsible for giving them power. Our politicians seem to have tapped into a bit of genuine glory for a change, leaving the Bishops to wash the dirty linen.

    Like chess, you sometimes have to sacrifice a bishop for a cheeky, threatening, advancing pawn. Even more disconcerting for Sentanu is that the combined jihadi and UK special forces are openly attacking Shi’a deviancy from Islam in Syria, while the stale rhetoric of the War on Terror cassette is still on. Will the UK establishment licence a jihad on the false teachings of the Church of England.

    Global Thatcher Capitalism not content with re-establishing Feudalism seeks to take over the Royal Head of Church domain. I like it. Greed fused with Truth. What a wonderful new religion for neo-neo-cons to aspire to… money and morality … proxy, patriotic Puritanism. A religion for Financial Services personnel whose foreheads are never dirtied by grime, manual work or manufacturing.

    Not like the old religions of UK Christianity and Islam, the where poverty and dreaming of the reward in heaven went hand in hand; William Blake’s Sunflower:

    Ah Sunflower, weary of time,
    Who countest the steps of the sun;
    Seeking after that sweet golden clime
    Where the traveller’s journey is done;

    Where the Youth pined away with desire,
    And the pale virgin shrouded in snow,
    Arise from their graves, and aspire
    Where my Sunflower wishes to go!

    Is there a heaven for CEOs and politicians who manage to remain squeakier than clean, by lying, spying and ruthless determination? Or is the neo-neo-con con its own reward?

  161. Mary – re. your post about MP Ann Clywd returning the Christmas hamper from the Bahraini ambassador : the tone of your post makes it unclear what your position on this is; do you approve of her returning the hamper, or do you feel she should have kept it.

  162. Habbabkuk,

    Your studied starry-eyed faux-naif idiot act really doesn’t wash here.

    Stop playing the prick,it’s a piss poor shameful gambit.

  163. Mitchell case: three questions:

    1) who was the man in the backpack?

    2) what was Mitchell going to talk about at the Carlton Club that evening?

    3) role of the United and Cecil Club?

    Certainly spook means are being deployed to rehabilitate Mitchell. Cops who definitely were there are having their evidence sidelined and rubbished, because someone who turns out to be a DPG cop, who wasn’t there but who just happens to have Mr Usual Channels (the deputy government chief whip) as his MP, allegedly sent a fake email in an effort to amplify what they said.

    If spookery isn’t afoot, then the moon is made of rice pudding.

    Rubbish is being talked about the video footage. It doesn’t do much to support Mitchell. What it does to is debunk the idea in the fake email that hordes of ‘members of the public’ were watching, shocked, and were filming what was going on. In fact there were only a few people walking by…including one who appeared very interested – Mr Backpack.

    However, cabinet secretary had watched the video and concluded it rebutted the fake email, long before Mitchell resigned.

    Oh dear.

    Yes, spookery afoot.

    Meanwhile the Torygraph is putting out the talking-point that Cameron is being criticised as ‘sitting on’ the video footage, which Mitchell got released under the FOI. In fact, of course, this is security of government buildings we’re talking about, and there’s a blanket exemption for such matters under the FOI. And Cameron obviously doesn’t have the authority to decide to release security footage – be serious! The real question isn’t why it wasn’t released before; it’s why it has been released at all. Serious strings are being pulled to get Mitchell rehabilitated.

    At first, I thought Mr Backpack might be Mossad, kind of an echo of those two Mossad operatives caught on grain film taking photographs of Murdoch’s Wapping compound in the Vanunu operation.

    After all, Mitchell went to Gaza, and backed the ‘aid for Gaza’ thing on the BBC, and might be thought by BICOM etc. to have shown less than 100% rabid support for the Zionists, even when, as is usual for almost all western politicians, he intones support for ‘Israel’s right to defend itself’ in relation to IDF massacres.

    Foreign Office dude Derek Fatchett got murdered. Alex Allan got ‘illnessed’ in a most unusual way. Etc. etc.

    But then I looked at the United and Cecil Club. The evening at the Carlton at which Mitchell was going to be the guest speaker was in fact hosted by the UCC at CC premises. He wasn’t a memer of the CC. He isn’t now. He got blacked.

    Double-take! Aren’t all Tory prime ministers, chairmen, and government chief whips members of the Carlton, at least honorarily? Normally, yes. But they made an exception for Mitchell, who got blacked because of Plebgate.

    The Carlton Club are cut from the same cloth as the Reform Club, whose members pelted the Jarrow hunger marchers with bread rolls. They’re Tory scum. They must have loved hearing the words “fucking plebs” spread about.

    So why didn’t they like Mitchell?

    If we posit a connection between the UCC and the Zionists – Angie Gray MP has received money from both – one possibility might be that it was Arab money that got Mitchell out, and Zionist influence which is trying to put him back again.

  164. Very interesting N_

    This U&CC outfit is very secretive. The only mention of it I ever see is in the MPs’ Register of Interests when ‘donations’ from it are noted. Who funds it and who runs it? Is is another branch of the rolled up trouser leg and funny handshake brigade?


    ‘The administration of ticket and table sales is being “co-ordinated” by the U&CC, a Tory dining club formed from a merger of different organisations in 1949. The address of the club is given as “Hickmans Lane, Lindfield, Haywards Heath”. The Sussex town is over 350 miles from Scotland, while the address given in the letter is a three-bedroom detached house.

    The U&CC has around 400 members and holds events to raise party funds. According to the Electoral Commission, the organisation has donated £100,000 to the party since 2008. None of the registered donations went to Scotland.

    In November, the U&CC had to forfeit an “impermissible” £850 from a donor who was not on the UK electoral register and could not make a legal donation.’

    I think there is a typo in the name of the MP you referred to. She is Angie Bray, rather jolly hockey sticks type, and the MP in the constituency where Craig used to live.

    I see our old friend Charles Crawford is a fellow supporter of Conservative Friends of Poland where Bray is a vice president and where Thatcher is the Honorary Patron! A few friends of Israel there too like Ms Bray.

  165. Mitchell supported this company when it received criticism for its dealings in Ghana.

    ‘Allegations of lobbying on behalf of donors

    An article in The Sunday Times on 30 October 2010, quoted by The Guardian the following day, claimed that Mitchell had pressured the Foreign Office and colleagues to lobby Ghana (successfully) for the lifting of a trading ban on a cocoa company, Armajaro, which had been a repeated donor to Mitchell’s parliamentary office and also a donor to the Conservative Party. Ghana had imposed the ban as the company was believed to have been smuggling cocoa out of the country. However, when questioned by ITV News on 2 November about his role in the case, Mitchell said that he had a duty as a member of the government to respond to the company’s requests, as it was registered as a British company, and that the government had a responsibility to promote British trade. He argued that he had seen no evidence that the Ghanaian government’s suspicions about the company in question had been substantiated, and that the claim that he had acted improperly on behalf of a party donor was unreasonable, as the company had ceased to donate to both the Conservative Party and his parliamentary office several years earlier.’

    Any views Craig?

  166. @ Jives at 1.44am

    The post from Mary which attracted my question started as follows:

    “Another bigmouth Ann Clywd is telling us all how she has rejected a present from Bahrain, a Fortnum and Mason hamper (link to Guardian website follows).

    She is so saintly now. She is the one who carried the lie about Saddam’s ‘people shredder’ (link to Wikipedia follows).”

    I think the general tone makes it clear that Mary doesn’t think much of Ann Clywd, but does appear ambiguous as to whether she approves or diapproves of Clywd sending back the hamper. So I believe my question was justified.

    Now, Mary is free to respond or not. Even you, Jives, are free to respond in lieu. But if you feel you have to, then please try to do so in a slightly more intelligent and measured manner; foul-mouthed abuse is no substitute for reasoned argument and certainly not for a coherent reply to a reasonable question.

    Do you have self-control or anger management issues?

  167. Note how the Leaderene is still the centre of attention, surrounded by her adoring followers. Carlton Club 2010.

    See CeeCil Parkinson third down on left with two beauties. What became of Sarah Keays and his daughter Flora btw?

  168. @Mary – just a quick post before I go offline for Christmas and the New Year. Thanks for the correction regarding Angie Bray – the B and G are adjacent on my keyboard!

    So the U&CC were formed by merger in 1949. Merger of what, I wonder. I also wonder when they started channelling money to MPs.

    According to the National Archives, they go back to at least 1881.

    Who knows what might come out of the woodwork if someone scratches at the Haywards Heath address? Do you know the street number or house name? Several companies have addresses on that road, including at a house called West Greenbank, where one of the companies is Remote Technologies Ltd. There is stuff about a Peter Bird, but for all I know, that might not even be the right address.

    I’ve done some scratching at another U&CC address, namely 18 Thorney Lane North, Iver, Bucks, SL0 9JY. House sold for £670,000 in 1999, although Land Registry data gives the legal owner and there’s no registry of beneficial owners of houses or any other assets.

    The Iver address is also given as the address of company director Christopher Mark Fenwick, octogenarian. Hello the chain of Fenwick department stores. There’s a store in Bond Street, and there is or was another one in Canterbury. They seem to be well in with the Torygraph, to judge from this article.

    Fenwick is also mentioned here in the Independent as one of many guests at a do organised by one of the ‘new’ Carlton-Club-linked Tory “power brokers”.

    Is there a link to Fenwick and West, the Israeli-linked law firm? (“In recent years, we have completed more than $200 billion worth of transactions, including many cross-border transactions involving Israeli companies.“) I merely ask!

    Anyway – Happy Christmas, and I hope to come back here in the New Year!

  169. Happy Christmas N_ ‘good reading thanks.

  170. Habbabfukuk

    There is no ambiguity in Mary’s post as I’m sure you know; really.

  171. Exactly Doug Scorgie.

    Some Christmas reading for us in the form of over 2,000 words from the Torygraph on the al-Hilli killings which leave us none the wiser.

    Alps murder: Truth about Saad al-Hilli’s’family feud’
    The Iraqi family of Saad al-Hilli, the Briton murdered in the French village of Chevaline, tell Colin Freeman that their relative was not a money-launderer for Saddam Hussein.

  172. Another BBC hypocrite, Caroline Hawley, has been embedded over the years with the coalition in their ‘scenes of theatre’ in Iraq and Afghanistan and has carried the propaganda for war like Olga Guerin, Lyse Doucet and Caroline Wyatt. What is the matter with these women?

    Now she is in Jordan seeing how attempts are being made to repair the faces and bodies of those injured in the region’s ‘conflicts’.

    Wrong Ms Hawley. They are not conflicts, they are offensive wars carried out by the West on people with a different skin colour. Our World: Abdullah is Beautiful. 6 days left to watch. 30 mins. Some horrific images.


    Read if you can stomach it. There’s a nice prezzie for Daddy and Grannie.

  174. Hope Craig is alright, just a word would reassure. All that immaculate inhuman polished stone looked pretty creepy to me when all we here makes Iraq sound like a war zone. I’ve come to believe that killing people there is routine, a very dangerous place to go; among other possible hazards are poisons.

  175. Agreed Seb.

    Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 live births. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital.

    A yearly account of the occurrence and types of birth defects, between 2003 and 2011, in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital, was reported. Metal levels in hair, toenail, and tooth samples of residents of Al Basrah were also provided. The enamel portion of the deciduous tooth from a child with birth defects from Al Basrah (4.19 μg/g) had nearly three times higher lead than the whole teeth of children living in unimpacted areas. Lead was 1.4 times higher in the tooth enamel of parents of children with birth defects (2,497 ± 1,400 μg/g, mean ± SD) compared to parents of normal children (1,826 ± 1,819 μg/g).

    source: Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Al Basrah Maternity Hospital, Al Basrah Medical School, P.O. Box 1633, Basrah, Iraq.

  176. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Dec, 2012 - 6:25 pm

    Yes, Mark. But I’m sure the rational scientists will deduct that the genuine culprit will be connected to hunger since all there was to eat was paint chips, and the horrific defects in Fallujah have no scientific link to white phosphorus, at least none they are willing to look for.

  177. Russia advancing & Nato retreating in Syria?

    The following might be of interest to some followers of this blog. Wider world and all that…

    GEAB N°70 2013, the first steps in a chaotic “world after”

    The European cheerleader says:
    « Euroland, born in the crisis and strengthening with each wave like a tidal power plant, Asia, and South America are better equipped to become the big winners in the “reshuffled” world, while the old powers, like the United States, the United Kingdom, Israel, Japan, etc., are failing to adapt to the multi-polar, post-crisis world and find themselves utterly destitute. There is an extraordinary open world game afoot, one providing numerous opportunities to those willing to seize them. This is evident in the Middle East, where populations are taking the opportunity to change the region in accordance with their aspirations; in the BRICS, where their advancing pawns approach declining powers; and in Europe, where each attack by the crisis creates the energy to adapt to the challenges of tomorrow…..

    The media war against the Euro was useful inasmuch as it forced the Eurozone to implement the reforms necessary to overcome the crisis»

  178. “Apparently man has lived for over five or six million years and during all this evolutionary period man has not been able, both outwardly and inwardly, to solve the great problem of conflict, conflict not only within himself but conflict and wars, slaughter outside. And that is the pattern through all these millennia, that the brain has followed this course, this mould, this pattern. And we are still continuing constantly in the same stream of misery, confusion and great sorrow, both inwardly and outwardly. And if we are at all serious and are concerned with what is happening in the world, and also within ourselves, one must wonder, or discuss, or find out why the brain, the mind – because we are using ‘the mind’ as sensation, all the emotions, the reactions, and the responses of thought. All that is the brain, the mind and the heart, the whole psychological structure of human beings, both biologically as well as psychologically – why we human beings, who are supposed to be educated, evolved, sophisticated, cultured, why we live in this world killing each other, being divided by religions, by nationalities, by all the destructive division that thought has created between human beings. And is it possible to bring about a change in the very structure of the brain. That is what we have been talking about for the last three talks.

    And also we said that this is not a talk by the man who is sitting on a platform talking about ideas. Any number of ideas have existed in the world, any number of ideologies, both the totalitarian, Marxist, Lenin, Mao, and the other type, ideologies of the Left, the Centre and the Right – the extremes of all these. And these ideologies have been very, very destructive, whether the religious ideologies or the political, economic ideologies. And the brain, the mind, the whole psychological structure of man has lived in this pattern, has lived in this mould. ” ——- J Krishnamurti

  179. Merry Christmas to everybody.
    It’s celebrated here on the 24th. And I’m off to celebrate it in London on the 25th too.
    I will be eating and drinking to excess… but that’s not difficult at my age.Hope you all are too.
    They’ve got different names for him (Kristkind,Tomte,Santa,St Nicholas etc) and he gets in, in different ways, but the result is always the same.It’s a time of giving and of not thinking of yourself.
    Thanks Craig for keeping this place going. A beacon of light in a very dark world. We need more like you, younger and fitter.

  180. Decrypted Dispatches:

    The Feds money launderers or the think-tank interface bankster elite, have spent tens of $trillions over several decades on conflict, wars and holocaust. The big spends on Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Al-Qaeda and terrorism together with the human infra-structure for asymmetric warfare, loosely bribes, training, intelligence, false-flags, propaganda, media mind control ;) and distractions for top-secret operations are enormous figures.

    The Fed cannot print more money as a shakened dollar would be weakened to collapse which drives these banksters to direct their political puppets to enact bills (welfare reform etc.) to sink money away in virtual bonds from cuts in public services, public employees, plus other austerity measures that affect public health and social programmes while the big increase in in short-term pay-day type loans provides debt revenue.

    The zombie smoke & mirror media pushes into the undercurrent with the sweeping statement that wars just feed the hungry military industrial complex, which wars do, although this being insignificant to other aims fixed in the cognitive map, such as resource grab, geo-political suppression and distraction intended to undermine our veto yielding enemies, China and Russia and energy supplier Iran.

    As a conspiracy ‘realist’ I call this scenario, this war theatre as ‘the plot’ or the Garden of Eden for the Western elite and their actors.

    You might argue that this ‘scenario’ is a good thing that profits humanity by, in simple terms, because a world government means no more wars and a world currency means no more poverty.

    I posit that this idealistic or perfect course is a false assumption and a blind acceptance as, for instance, the short term equilibrium would change as countries and culture are compelled to take debt (we still have a Fiat money system) and compelled to accept a large NATO (world military) presence.

    Revolution, lawlessness, rebellion and mob rule would be countered by thousands of drones(next generation) spraying lethal chemicals.

    My main point invoked from this stark yet reasonably envisaged cataclysm is that our lives would be controlled, draconian style by the greed and corruption inherent in any money system – by the same corporate bankster community that supports the carnage (serves their aim of population reduction) we have witnessed in the past century.

    The Yin and Yang are finely balanced – it would take a financial crash to prevent the inevitable Western manoeuvring of a mix of military might, deception, fraud etc etc and one can be lost considering what might prevent this tumble into darkness as the aims are realised.

    Yet simply just accepting this thesis, while the Western build-up begins (British troops to Middle-East) begins with the firm intention to transform this vision I present here into one where love dominates – will do.

    Happy Christmas Craig & friends – God Bless.

  181. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Dec, 2012 - 3:15 am

    What Mark said, but to add; The IMF and Fed have printed, then disgorged many more Trillions than they wish to reveal. The “Mark’ must never catch on to the Con, until the Confidence Game has been completed. The hair-breadth of utility in the World Economy is the baseline of the dollar, specifically, the Petro Dollar. Not everything has been raided yet, like the Twinkie Co’s pension fund. Rest assured when the last of the wheat has been harvested, and all that remains is the Chaff, the Con will be complete. They need to keep markets limping along for a while, but for that limping, there must be Public confidence in the currency.

    Merry Saturnalia, and a Happy New Year to ya’ll

  182. John Lennon wrote this 31 years ago. What would he be writing now?


    Greetings to Craig and to everyone here.

  183. Thanks Mary. The images in the John Lennon video brought tears to my eyes. Am I getting old?

    Happy festive season whatever your religion or non-religion. I am sure a peaceful new year would be the greatest gift for most people who comment here.

  184. English Knight

    24 Dec, 2012 - 6:46 pm

    Merry Xmas and Happy New Year yoll ! And a big thank you to all concerned for all the time spent on sifting the net for that increasingly rare commodity – truth.

  185. Apologies to all I might have offended, it wasn’t meant badly. I wish you all a very Merry Christmas full of love and joy, and a very happy New Year in which your wishes, great and small, may be satisfied.

  186. Two American fire fighters shot dead and two wounded while tackling a blaze in New York.

    I expect the NRA will propose having armed guards at all fires now.

  187. Merry Christmas and a happy and noncorporate New Year to all.
    (He is not dead but sleepeth*)

    *Possibly to be found here
    WARNING 1: For John Cage fans only
    WARNING 2: The most irritating website on earth.

    See you next year.

  188. The answer, Mary, is that they all read PPE at Oxford. Which makes me wonder if having a PPE degree from Oxford shouldn’t disqualify people from national public office. (Habbabkuk)

    Will Self – yeah, he’s intolerable, but read on – did a good piece on R4 last week on this very topic. He knows whereof he speaks; he has a PPE from Oxford. And he rightly highlighted the way in which the economics element is very narrowly focussed and ignores anything faintly leftwing completely. Chomsky? We do not speak his name…

    Osborne avoided this. He did a respectable Modern History degree (at Oxford); thereafter gaining the experience of finance essential to his job thus – if Wikipedia is to be believed:
    After graduating in 1992, Osborne did a few part-time jobs including as a data entry clerk, typing the details of recently deceased into a NHS computer database.[13] He also briefly worked for a week at Selfridges, mainly re-folding towels.[13]

    In 1993, Osborne originally intended to pursue a career in journalism. He was shortlisted for but failed to gain a place on The Times trainee scheme, and instead did freelance work on the Peterborough diary column of The Daily Telegraph. Some time later, an Oxford friend of his, journalist George Bridges, alerted Osborne to a research vacancy at Conservative Central Office.[13]

    So a PPE isn’t essential really. Folding towels gives you as good a grounding in economics, doesn’t it?

  189. Komodo : to be fair, very few Chancellors during the time of the large (ie post-C19) UK state have been economically and/or financially literate.

  190. John Robertson

    25 Dec, 2012 - 12:08 am

    Happy Christmas to all, from an old fart from down under who lurks here learning a lot.
    Cheers from a coool (22deg)Melbourne.

  191. Ho! Ho! Ho!
    I set up a party laser pointing at my 78 year old neighbour’s house so that when she came home from a sing song at the midnight carol service, her house was covered in red and green moving stars. She was delighted.
    Hope you all have a cool Yule too.

  192. King of nothng

    25 Dec, 2012 - 1:56 am

    Merry Christmas from another lurker :)

  193. Jonangus Mackay

    25 Dec, 2012 - 5:45 am

    A Christmas Sports Report
    War v Football (vid):

  194. Two American fire fighters shot dead and two wounded while tackling a blaze in New York.
    I expect the NRA will propose having armed guards at all fires now.

    Already in the papers. The next will be a cure for obesity where everyone eats more cream cakes, or bringing peace to the Middle East with more wars …. oops, at least one of those is true.

    What has happened to education in the USA?

  195. “What has happened to education in the USA?”

    I don’t expect you need too many qualifications to ride shotgun on an ice cream van.

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