The Guardian had a major feature last week on the 20th anniversary of the attempted coup against Mikhail Gorbachev in the Soviet Union. Contrary to the intention of the coup leaders, it was the catalyst for the end of the Soviet Union and, in a sense, the ultimate victory of NATO.
As NATO bombing this week achieves the loss of power of Gadaffi in Tripoli, a look back at that 1991 Soviet coup highlights the stunning hypocrisy of NATO and the danger to world peace which it has become.
One of the leaders of the coup against Gorbachev was a dedicated Stalinist Politburo member named Islam Karimov, who was President of the Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic. After the failure of the coup, he embraced the idea of Uzbek independence in order both to escape retribution for his part in the coup and to maintain Stalinism in his little part of the Soviet Empire.
(A digression, but one of Karimov’s first acts in independent Uzbekistan was to order the Uzbek Supreme Court to pardon Alisher Usmanov, a notorious gangster jailed by the Soviet Union. He is now the third richest man in Britain).
Karimov has to this day maintained the Soviet institutions in Uzbekistan and even increased the levels of repression, with absolutely no civil or political liberty, and commercial freedoms restricted to his immediate family and friends.
So Karimov, the world’s most notorious torturer, must be NATO’s number 1 remaining enemy, right?
No, actually. He is NATO’s best friend.
Karimov is the major conduit for land supplies to NATO forces in Afghanistan, is host to Germany’s forward airbase, is a most valued member of NATO’s “Partnership for Peace”, is a recipient of NATO military training and equipment.
Because NATO does not care in the least about dictators. It likes them if they forward NATO’s interest in Central Asian or Middle Eastern oil and gas, and if they host NATO military logistics. Karimov can murder hundreds, keep 10,000 political prisoners in desert gulags. Bahrain can become a torture camp. NATO really does not care. Every time you hear a NATO spokesman telling lies about their mission to protect civilians, remember the tortured of Uzbekistan.
I used to be neutral about whether or not an independent Scotland should remain in NATO. I now view leaving NATO as the number one foregin policy priority.
Nope…guy I went to school with and he eventually ended up in the Australian SAS..runs his own security company now, so I checked with him….
@Mark
Nice website by the way..brings reality home..
First NATO and then – the Japanese have a word for it – dango.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/08/new-word-to-learn-for-non-japanese.html
I entirely agree. We must leave NATO at the soonest convenience!
According to Fuckwit, CM thinks “That the west’s attempt at getting rid of ‘a bad government’ is somehow ok”
FW seems to be right. Forget the rape of Libya. Forget NATO’s role in the subjugation of Iraq. Forget NATO’s role in Afghanistan. That’s all OK. It’s just their failure to recognize Karimov as the most evil man in the world that matters.
LOL
Murray, you’re a New World Order puppet.
Anon…You just do not get Craig’s view do you..
Zoe Williams reports riot cases before the courts in today’s Guardian:
‘The second case was sadder still. It featured Michael Alvin Watson, whose face was undulated with tumours. His body and feet were in the same condition. “But I won’t ask him to remove his clothes,” his counsel sensitively declared. His alleged crime – to which he pleaded not guilty – was riot-related: he was accused of poking his hand through a broken window and stealing cigarettes of “unknown value”, but there was no suggestion he’d broken the window, or been part of the crowd that had looted the shop. His tumours were undiagnosed. He was in the middle of a course of drugs to gird his strength, at the end of which doctors would be able to do more exploratory work. He was homeless. I’m not sure what the medical term is: the layman’s term is “completely fucked’. He was refused bail.’
Oh what the hell..with apologies…
http;//frazer-aloggieintroubleagain.com.blogspot/
enjoy..
NATO forces, a combination of special forces, mercenaries leading the Benghazi rabble, have not achieved their goal in Tripoli. The idea is to install the TNC there as the new government, which can then “invite” NATO forces to enter the country as a stabilisation force. But Tripoli is not under their control even in the center, witness reports by Rolando Segura on TeleSur. This has been a bad day for the NATO terrorists and their myriad leftist cheerleaders- always good to see that sort with egg on their mouth. NATO will not accept defeat though and will find a way in, so we are heading for another long and ultimately futile war for the western terror masters
A ‘rebel’ drone (UAV) coming to your neighbourhood soon…
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http://www.coia.org.uk/drone.png
The CIA commander of the Libyan rebels – Khalifa Hiftar (not Hitler)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kJn0Rjy-s
@ Ruth and Suhayl,
I said ” NATO’S VAVV”.The “v” for victory – the way to it – via a manipulated war.
There could have been no road this far without NATO bombing a path for the rebels to move forward. If it were that there was this majority that wanted Gadaffi out – then a couple months of NATO bombing would have achieved that end. Bomb – advance – be repelled by government troops – bomb – be repelled – advance again. If is fundamentally – NATO’S WAR!
There was false information circulated recently about the true position in Tripoli and then within 24 hours Obama was back on air to say that the fight was not over ( i.e. there is still significant support for Gadaffi after almost 6 months of bombing and the fight goes on). This simply is not the mirror of what transpired in Egypt or Tunisia. Where there were genuine people’s opposition in the streets demonstrating for the removal of the leaders, in Libya the ones in the street in significant numbers were the Libyan people demonstrating in support of Gadaffi. Clearly, the process is one of removal from power with overwhelming military force. The Libyan people, as had the people of Iraq, have precious little to expect but the plundering of their resources by the Western powers that led the charge for the oil etc. – France, Italy, Britain, the US. A sad state of affairs and the literal ditching of the rule of international law.
Ruth – you say:-
” Libyans now feel they have a future. Without Gaddafi’s oppression there’s a sense of absolute relief. In Benghazi people have a sense of purpose working together to keep the city functioning. They’re very grateful indeed to France, UK and the US. Over many years they’ve asked for help to remove Gaddafi but instead Western countries just sold him more and more weapons making a successful rebellion alone impossible. People are very aware of what they want and if they don’t get it they’ll fight for it again. Commentators have mentioned the US setting up a base. If the US does that then they’ll run the risk of producing a new Gaddafi. The Libyan people won’t tolerate foreigners on their soil.”
I reply to you in the terms I have done to Suhayl. The question for me is – when the US and NATO liberate Libya from Gadaffi – who liberates Libya from the US and NATO?
Watch as the chaos and plunder unfolds.
“ “Nat0’s vvav.” Courtenay.
Please could you explain what that means, Courtenay. Thanks.”
1. There is a rush to beat the 6 month UN timeframe – hence the intensified bombing and the staging of a false declaration of victory
2. “The ‘rebels’ are NATO’S ground troops” – he speaks sensibly and honestly with a lot of perception for his young age. “ People will start shooting each other” – Libya is a tribal society. “We are being invaded” He is so spot on:- http://mathaba.net/news/?x=628300
Suhayl – it is not about saying Gadaffi is the man – but NATO is a criminal organisation held bent on grabbing the oil and it is gangsters who are going after it. The young man says: “ The war has just begun” – he is correct – tragically. NATO could have ended this from onset by responding to the African Union’s road map. Gaddaffi agreed to Western style elections ( of course he knows he would have won – and NATO knew full well that as usual “freedom” and ” democracy” was the ruse to get to the oil – so no deal).
Someone observed that if Libya had asparagus as its main resource one would not see much interest in a country that some have referred to as the “Switzerland of Africa” – but this was before the “boom – boom – “humanitarian bombing of Libya” “. If one cannot at this stage see the very cynical abuse of power, the illegality ( read the War Powers Act and relate to the 90 day period – where is the Congressional approval? – how does one under international law find a means of comporting UN Resolution 1973 with the over-reach and arming of a faction to gain access to Libya’s oil). This, as I have said in a previous post is the kind of operation that would excite the imagination of the pirate Henry Morgan. But, then again, he got respectability by becoming a British Governor of Jamaica.Some of the rebels will be there and the fundamentalist Islamists who want either the money or the Sharia law in place – take your pick. A bright future ahead for Libya and long live “peace” “freedom” and “demoracy” and at least one thing that none can deny – Libya was free of debt before the West attacked. Watch as the debacle unfolds. The banditry goes on.
Keep your eyes on the Islamists – and watch the chaos unfold. NATO does not give one fuck about the chaos they have unleashded and viability in Libya is now not on the cards – NATO wants first and foremost the oil – Ruth and Suhayl – there is no honour among these thieves.
CB
NATO mulls marriage with Israel
David Cronin Thu, 08/25/2011 – 14:38
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Israel wishes to participate in NATO’s future wars, judging by the content of a diplomatic cable released this week by WikiLeaks.
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Dating from November 2009, the document from the American embassy in Tel Aviv summarizes a briefing given by Claudio Bisorgniero, NATO’s deputy-secretary general, during a visit to Israel.
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Fresh from talks with Avigdor Lieberman, the Israeli foreign minister, Bisorgniero noted that Israel wishes to sign a status of forces agreement (SOFA) with the alliance. Such an accord lays down the rules covering a country’s troops when they are operating abroad.
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/…
http://electronicintifada.net/blog/david/nato-mulls-marriage-israel
John Humphrys of BBC Radio 4 writing for YouGov !!!
The fall of Gaddafi: Intervention vindicated?
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‘This week’s change in fortunes, however, will embolden those who backed NATO’s action and the initiative of Messrs Cameron and Sarkozy in bringing it about. They will argue that the military intervention did save civilian lives; that it was scrupulous in not going beyond its mandate; and that the regime change that is coming about can be regarded only as a good thing, as is evident from the jubilant behaviour of the liberated Libyans themselves. The Arab Spring is still dawning.’
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http://today.yougov.co.uk/commentary/john-humphrys/fall-gaddafi-intervention-vindicated
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i.e. Renowned senior employee of state broadcaster speaking for the ConDems, senior partner of the USUKIsNATO coalition and instigators of illegal bombing of Libya.
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See Craig on YouGov and CEO Stephan Shakespeare
{http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/04/yougov_and_murd/}
Al Jazeera is a pro-Western station.
Yes after gwb the lesser attacked them by killing a few, he then sent his man from pbs to help reorg this news group. If you’ve read enough Middle Eastern sites and comments even they noticed it a few yrs ago. They have followed the western line in Syria.
The site Frazer is only images. The real horror is the reality. A family in Iraq like any family were busy preparing breakfast for the children. A’ishah, which means ‘lively,’ the eldest and only girl in the family was helping her mother chop dates, a favourite with the other three boys and Imad the baby. It was early morning in Doura, a southern suburb of Baghdad and this was a typical family breakfast time in Iraq with children waiting patiently on a not so comfortable herki rug.
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A’ishah was sat down with the baby while her mother went to her Uncle’s corner shop for some gayner, a thick white cream made from buffalo milk, good for dipping and good for the baby (Iraqi baby boys tend to be fat because they are spoilt).
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It was just a whoosh, a sort of fast jet flying by sound lasting a couple of seconds before the flash, like brilliant suns and then came the blast, the searing heat’ smoke, rubble, fire, burning…
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A’ishah’s mum eventually found the baby, it was black, strangely on one side only, it’s mouth was open wide and a tear was in it’s unburned eye.
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It was the 21st March 2003.
a blogger named DeBar wrote this:-
“I do not support an international community which uses two sets of weights and measures to resolve international issues, I do not support an international community in which the proper forum for crisis management – the UN Security Council, simply does not work because it is a Chamber for trading interests among the powerful while the developing world is not represented equally.
I do not support an international community in which a clique of military powers band together and yet again invent a war based upon lies, I do not support an international community in which the rule of law is bent to favour the strongest and the greedy.
This is not my international community, I did not vote for it. Mine is not a community of bullies, mine is not a community of murderers who arm, aid and finance groups of terrorists to take power, interfering directly in an internal conflict by bombing the legitimate government forces so that their “terrorists” can advance, then claim victory. That for me is not a manly way to fight, it is cowardice.
It is sheer, yellow-bellied, snivelling cowardice, it is the law of the jungle, it is mob rule. Mine is not an international community in which nations can feel free to make or break the law, breach the UN Charter, breach the UNSC Resolutions, breach the Geneva Conventions, set up kangaroo courts and claim they represent right and reason and justice.”
In Libya – NATO – has created a situation where ‘the law of the jungle’ will prevail. Ah…yes…but it for “freedom” and “democracy”. Freedom to become a debt slave for the IMF and World Bank post-Gadaffi and a “democratic” right is bestowed not to choose a leader who – of course is prohibited by the West from standing in elections in his own country.
This is simply not about “democracy” and “freedom” – it is about oil, gold, water resources and anything else of value that Libya has.
“Resolutions 1970 and 1973 (2011) of the UN Security Council were very clear in their terms: No foreign military personnel, no mercenaries, no weapons to the parties in conflict and inspection of vessels ferrying arms and soldiers. NATO has breached all four counts and now is liable for prosecution under international law.”
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“Resolutions 1970 and 1973 (2011) of the UN Security Council stated very clearly and categorically that there were to be no foreign troops on the ground in Libya, there were to be no mercenaries, neither were foreign powers to arm the parties to the conflict, as well as imposing the obligation on parties surrounding this to investigate vessels shipping in personnel or arms. NATO has not only failed on all four counts, it has categorically breached them all. NATO is guilty of breaching international law, and there will be consequences.”
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“Quite apart from its obvious breaches of international law, NATO is liable for war crimes – strafing civilian structures such as the water supply system, to “break the population”, strafing civilian structures with military hardware, murdering civilians in their homes by precision-bombing children, strafing civilians using Apache helicopters from the USA (isn’t there a law in the US about that?).”
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http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/24-08-2011/118852-nato_trouble-0/
@Billy,
“NATO is guilty of breaching international law, and there will be consequences.”
So – when the US and NATO are basically Caesar, with Caesar’s court ( ICC) and Caesar’s arms in abundance – is Caesar going to try Caesar in Caesar’s court?
I agree with the first half of your sentence:NATO is guilty of breaching international law.The difficulty with the second half is that it fails to realise that the NATO powers are a law unto themselves.
@Courtney
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I was quoting Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey’s piece (see link to read in full) but, yes I agree that the ICC isn’t exactly preparing for an influx of indicted NATO personnel. Perhaps he means that there are so many reports coming out of the reality that the public are finally waking up to the lies of the corporatocracy.
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Liked your DeBar piece but when I searched quoting the first few lines I got multiple sources including T B-H at Pravda – whoever wrote it, speaks for all decent (non-psychotic) people.
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Apropos of nothing except you are a lawyer, I actually read my way through this lot (conclusion being Robin Cook was a man of integrity and Jack Straw is a c**t):
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http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2007/498.html
Today is the 69th anniversary of the untimely death of a charismatic and thoroughly decent royal, Prince George, Duke of Kent – and according to some the real Rudolf Hess:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mWavqkrwYg
@ All,
Someone said this to me:-
“Courtenay—I agree. What is happening is really quite nauseating. And to think that this is all being done in the name of “protecting civilian lives”!
To put this in perspective—Libya is a nation of 6.4 million people, against which 20,000 ‘sorties’ have been flown by NATO forces, including 7,459 “strike sorties”. The EU has a population of approximately 500 million. The equivalent number of sorties flown against the EU in relation to its population would be over one and half million (1,550,388 to be exact) sorties and over half a million (578,217) strike sorties. By way of comparison, does anyone have the figure for the number of bombing raids carried out, even if the number is restricted to “military targets”, by both sides in the European theatre during World War II?”
I would be happy to hear if anyone on this thread can do the maths and make the proportionate comparisons.
Courtenay,
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The Germans are reported to have dropped a total of 74,172 tons of bombs on Britain during WW2, plus a small tonnage of high explosive delivered by buzz bomb and V2. Bombs dropped by the allies on continental Europe totaled about 2.7 million tons.
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The effectiveness of bombing then and now and the explosive power of a ton of ordnance is very different now from then. With smart bombs, nearly every kilogram of explosive delivered should inflict death or destruction. During WW2, bombs often fell miles from their intended targets.
The Canadian CF 18s that are being used to bomb Libya carry between 6 and eight tons of armaments, depending on model. The US B-2 stealth bomber has a bomb load of up to 60 tons. So 74,459 strike sorties on Libya would probably have delivered at least 74,172 tons of explosive, i.e., as much as the Germans delivered on Britain during the Blitz. But due to greater accuracy of delivery and greater explosive power per ton, the Libyan blitz is probably at least ten times as destructive as the German Blitz on Britain during WW2.
Come to think of it, bombing the Hell out of the country that, until last week, had the highest economic development index in Africa, seems a better reason for quitting Nato than some coziness with Uzbekistan — a country on whose collaboration we must depend so long as we are engaged in an occupation of Afghanistan.
Yes, I know all that, Courtenay, thanks for reiterating it. As I’ve said at least twelve times on this and other threads, I am aware that NATO is a piratical imperialist military terrorist alliance of mass murdering capitalist fundamentalist terrorists following in the ‘grand’ terrorist tradition of (re-)colonialism whose intent on Libya (and Africa) is acquisitive and malevolent. That is why I have also said that the next struggle of the Libyan people will be against re- and/or neo-colonisation.
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I simply wanted to know from your good self at that point earlier in the thread what “NATO’s vvav” meant. Is it some kind of acronym?
In other words, as I’ve said before, my concerns is that while the Libyan people may think or hope they are getting freedom, what they are likely to be getting is de facto re-colonisation and the imposition of neoliberal economics as a pipeline to the wholesale theft of their resources. Think for a moment of the ‘Simon Mann’ (and allegedly Mark Thatcher) coup plot against the dictator ruling Equatorial Guinea. This seems to me to be simply a far larger version of the same dynamic.
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It really is a sick joke for King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia to be criticising Assad of Syria for killing his own people, when just a few weeks ago, King Abdullah’s own forces were happily murdering wounded hospital patients – civilians – in Bahrain. They are all bastards – it’s just that some are “our” bastards.
There is a wicked lie in the second paragraph of this BBC report. The first is probably true in view of the damage caused by NATO bombing and by the arms and weaponry supplied by them to the rebels.
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26 August 2011
Libya crisis: a decade to rebuild Libya, says NTC
Rebuilding Libya’s broken infrastructure will take at least a decade, the NTC says.
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Rebuilding Libya’s infrastructure will take at least 10 years, according to the head of the Libyan Stabilisation Team at the country’s National Transitional Council (NTC).
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++Libya’s infrastructure was in a poor state even before the revolution due to “utter neglect”, the head of the team, Ahmed Jehani, told the BBC.++
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The first priority must be to unfreeze Libyan assets held abroad, which total more than $100bn (£61bn), he said.
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International help will also be needed.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14675948
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Is anyone else feeling as tired and depressed as me by all of this this morning?
‘Now what, ladies and gentleman, will posterity say to that? Messrs. Cameron, Obama and Sarkozy, and that sickening clique of cowards in NATO, you are in deep, deep trouble. And by God, are you going to pay for what you have done…’ This from the MAN FROM PRAVDA.
Scouse Billy, little Hitler, quoting the man from PRAVDA as someone who ‘speaks for all decent (non-psychotic) people’ looks forward to his own death, unless they decide to leave Liverpool alone, which they probably will. So the non-psychotic should agree with the threats from the nationalist-communists in Russia.
The so called Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey, it sounds made up, also wrote this:
‘the more those of us who knew Colonel Gaddafi’s projects and thanked him for his wonderful humanitarian policies (which irritated practically all the players in the western lobbies) are convinced that we have been right from day one, whatever the outcome.’
Bad luck f wit it looks like you and your mates have lost?