The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
CORRECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How STUPID am I for not being clear and accurate????????????
The Luger ejects UP AND TO THE RIGHT not LEFT as viewed from the shooter’s perspective. Sorry if this confused anyone.
Tim V
8 Sep, 2013 – 3:14 p
I don’t know much about ballistics.
I understand that the mark that the firing pin makes on the casing can identify the gun type.
I know that the scratches on the slug can be matched to a specific gun barrel. Can they also be consistent with a certain rifling & muzzle velocity? If the gun actually used, fired the exact same 765 ammo, would the perp need to remove the casings? Assuming that the firing mark could be simulated?
It’s interesting to see that active measures has been put in play on this website.
In that light it’s normal that Russia has almost never been mentioned as guilty participants.
After the Mitrokhin files and the defection of Oleg Kalugin we know what an important tool disinformation is for the Russians. Nobody should be suprisied if this website was monitored and compromised by the FSB. After all CN was an UZ ambassador and highly important.
In last year comments you could have seen a certain Katy asking to put on a COM_On 500 line, which is merely a command to open port 500 on your computer. With your ip, which the FSB of course can look up, it’s possible to sniff around on your computer.
Hypothesis:
Let’s say that the Russians have asked Saad to put a backdoor in on the satellite so they can alter the imagery coming from the satellite and also exactly see what other countries are looking for.(China) We all know that GRU/SVR/FSB works hand in hand with OGC members in Russia. See for such a case Anatoliy Serdyukov and Gennady Petrov(OGC Tambovskaya) and S-300 or Kh-55 smuggling of missiles to Iran. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Arctic_Sea
http://eng.election2012.ru/reports/1/14.html
A Russian OGC killer would not hesitate to kill also the family.
Of course i know there are lots of flaws in this theory but I don’t think we should rule out the Russians.
And Bluebird dont trust Rumafia.com because their stories are part true and part fiction.(Kompromat!)
Intp1
“I don’t know much about ballistics”.
By the looks…neither does Timothy !
I guess “a blunder a day keeps the doctor away”.
You have to admit, the dude is consistent.
@Intp1
I personally don’t believe the Luger P06 + 3 clips assertion. It is a weapon that would be highly unlikely to be selected and somewhat unlikely to be successful in achieving the outcome presented.
Assassin leaving broken bits of gun handle is just too convenient.
I couldn’t agree more!
Personally I think it was something like a 9mm Uzi with the barrel replaced with a 7.65mm one. Apparently it’s easy to change a 9mm para weapon to 7.65mm luger because the cartridge is exactly the same except that the slug is a different size, so all you need to do is change the barrel. And the Uzi has a 20-round mag so with one up the spout that equals 21.
Like you, I don’t buy the 3 x 8 scenario for one minute, and the idea of an “antique weapon” being used for a pro hit seems very unlikely.
So I think the killer used a re-barrelled 9mm sub machine gun with a 20-shot mag, and one up the spout.
I don’t think the hammer marks on the cartridges can always identify a weapon type but they can in some circumstances tie the cartridges to a particular gun (if you can find the gun) as you can tie up small variances in the hammer with the matching imprint in the cartridge. But I don’t think it’s reliable indication of weapon, at least not always. Similarly with scratches from the chambering of the rounds – if you can find the gun, you can do a match, but without the gun you can’t do a lot.
And if it were me doing the job, I’d bring a bit of a broken handle from the weapon I wanted the plod to think it was, and drop it before I left the scene…
@Ferret
“antique weapon” being used for a pro hit seems very unlikely
But it was in Germany when a “hitman” shot those two “car dealers”.
Infact I have read that “pro hitmen” prefer to use “antique” weapons.
So much so that they actually “re tool” bullets.
That’s what they did in the German case.
Oh !
Nearly forgot. There is a reason for that.
It’s due to the increased gun crime in many counties…and the “hiring out” of weapons.
There is a case with that also.
BUT that does not mean this action was by a “pro” hitman.
@Ferret
With the “I don’t know much about ballistics” proviso, and if the “false weapon trail” theory was correct.
I would think if a machine pistol or sub-machine gun was used, it must have been capable of either single-shot mode or burst-limit mode. I don’t think the reported shot patterns would match with a pure burst mode weapon.
Which may limit the possible candidate guns?
eg: Škorpion vz. 61 which has a semi-automatic mode (one pull of trigger = one shot) and is 7.65mm and can take a 20 round magazine.
In fact didn’t early reports mention this weapon?
Was the broken luger grip that was found the only reason to dismiss it? or was there another, ballistics based, reason(s)?
@Bleb
Good point… certainly, the Uzi has both single-shot and automatic modes…
There are two external safety mechanisms on the Uzi.
The first external safety mechanism is the three-position “ARS”-style selector lever located at the top of the pistol grip and behind the trigger group. The rear position is S, or “Safe”, which locks the sear and prevents movement of the bolt. One notch forward is the middle position R, or “Repeating”, which will allow the weapon to function in semiautomatic single shot mode, requiring the trigger to be pulled for each shot. When the switch is placed all the way in the forward position A, or “Automatic”, this disengages part of the sear mechanism, allowing use of the trigger to control the firing mechanism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzi#Controls
@Bleb
Re the Skorpion 7.65mm, it was an early candidate and I don’t remember any ballistics being mentioned to rule it out, only the broken bit of plastic from a pistol handle. Of course that doesn’t mean there isn’t ballistic evidence which has been withheld so as not to prejudice the investigation.
The other thing about the Skorpion is that the 7.65mm version is the “browning” version of 7.65mm, not the parabellum, which is a completely different round. But it does have a 9mm para version which could be re-barrelled to 7.65mm para.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0korpion_vz._61
“Up and to the right”. I repeat for one in particular. Perhaps instead of sniping as a method of distraction, he would like to explain how a pile of casings got to be next to the rear off-side wheel of the BMW as put out by several French media sources immediately following and never refuted by police.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iFXtyjbuxKI/UEjxCYbbyEI/AAAAAAAAFlE/mkHqKOcdJuo/s1600/tuerie%2Bchevaline.jpg&imgrefurl=http://leschroniquesderorschach.blogspot.com/2012/09/tuerie-de-chevaline-le-mossad-deja.html&h=630&w=630&sz=83&tbnid=Uuw86H2tmLOKGM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=93&zoom=1&usg=__HiJ2VdoBubZJOPIEHKLxG52NnZs=&docid=g4x91Cg0-4ss5M&sa=X&ei=Id8sUqKFLJKUhQefuIGwBQ&ved=0CDQQ9QEwAA&dur=239
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://s1.lemde.fr/image/2012/10/27/1000×0/1782027_5_c486_les-hypotheses-des-enqueteurs-sur-le-tuerie-de_6b91b94b9138c88e4344099d1933631d.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/infographie/2012/10/27/tuerie-de-chevaline-un-tueur-seul-determine-et-d-une-grande-brutalite_1782079_3224.html&h=602&w=1000&sz=132&tbnid=vYiXZ3uANNBkvM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=140&zoom=1&usg=__LqnMg22yuKct1pNCiK5vjTnunJQ=&docid=aew-I5xSgmhI9M&sa=X&ei=Id8sUqKFLJKUhQefuIGwBQ&ved=0CDoQ9QEwAg&dur=13604
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.directmatin.fr/sites/default/files/styles/image_630/public/Infographies/tuerie_de_chevaline_le_scenario_16493_hd.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.directmatin.fr/infographies/tuerie-de-chevaline-le-deroulement-des-faits-195767&h=720&w=630&sz=87&tbnid=O-aOKe605Si_UM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=80&zoom=1&usg=__Bx3wPPhMTSaTqIimpKG3_v_fIGA=&docid=ROq76V5f-GRYOM&sa=X&ei=Id8sUqKFLJKUhQefuIGwBQ&ved=0CEcQ9QEwBg&dur=1443
I have looked hard and those early diagrams seem to have gone. Will look again later. But perhaps more interesting I have come across three new photos (to me at least)!!!!!!
Timothy…
Ask nicely and I will explain. But you have to ask nicely.
And Jesus Tim…
..the links you provided I looked through.
They are “media” (drawn) diagrams of the event !
Which side do you actually butter your bread on ? Both sides ?
You call them liars one minute.
Then quote them ! Get real.
Start at the end…and work backwards.
It’s easier that way.
Take a look:
this one at http://rhone-alpes.france3.fr/sites/regions_france3/files/styles/top_big/public/assets/images/chevaline_3.jpg?itok=2FdS6ATE
What do you see in front of the loaded shrouded vehicle? Looks remarkably like a BODY (face down arm over bonnet)but surely just a fluke of the light or Mother Theresa in a fairy cake? Having difficulty making out a bike there tho.
This remarkable one I’ve never seen before apparently from MZT!
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/wp-content/uploads/Chevaline-marking-crime-scene.jpg
They appear to show markers (for bullets?) next to a RUBBISH BIN???? Where in the layby was the rubbish bin?
http://i42.tinypic.com/15tz84.jpg A bike?
“What do you see in front of the loaded shrouded vehicle?”
The road ?
Another wider angled shot I haven’t seen before at
http://i40.tinypic.com/i1bnyh.jpg
Most bizarre thought I have just had.
Even makes my “red rags” to Tim seem nothing.
Who reads these blogs ?
17 and a half thousand comments…but we’re not “saving the world” are we.
Some political analysts accused Iran of being behind the murder of Saad [Al Hilli] for it was he who leaked pictures of Iranian nuclear reactors to Israel.
This is from a machine translation posted by Katie, from a (now-defunct) link posted by Olifant.
Did we ever discuss this?
It would certainly fit with Saad’s work, both at his aerial photography company AMS1087, and at SSTL and its subsidiary DCM International Imaging (DCMii) which he visited in Dec 2011.
The Mail on Sunday has discovered that in December Mr Al-Hilli visited a sub-division of SSTL called DMC International Imaging, which has recently signed a contract with the Chinese to help map the country via satellite imagery. DMC also has a lucrative satellite-mapping deal with Russia and is working with the Foreign Office in Afghanistan to monitor illicit opium poppy cultivation.
[…]
The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Mr Al-Hilli subscribed to the Google Circles social networking website, where he recorded his own movements. This showed that on December 14 and 15 last year he had been working at DMC Imaging, a subsidiary of SSTL.
On December 16 he left the Brittany Ferries dock in Portsmouth Harbour on a business visit to France.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200388/Did-French-Alps-murder-victims-secret-work-space-satellite-contract-make-prime-assassination-target.html
I should have said that the machine translation was from a post on an Arabic forum.
http://alpes.france3.fr/sites/regions_france3/files/styles/top_big/public/assets/images/image_75376768.jpg?itok=LFIxiL9_
take copies folks b4 they’re gone for good like those early diagrams. (Perhaps I’m wrong)
One other thing that might be relevant…
The agreement found between URENCO and its shareholders in 2003 and completed in July 2006 enables AREVA to access centrifugation technology. This process has been in use in the Georges Besse II plant in Tricastin, France, started production in April, 2011 and which is scheduled for full production capacity in 2016.
URENCO is a joint venture between the UK, Netherlands, Germany, and some other stakeholders which enriches uranium (and is now up for sale to the highest bidder).
URENCO licences its centrifugation enrichment technologies – which I’m sure the Iranians would have been dying to get their hands on at the time.
And Areva is of course the parent company of Cezus, with its Zirconium production and R&D facility in Ugine where Sylvain Mollier worked.
Sorry, forgot the link…
The agreement found between URENCO and its shareholders in 2003 and completed in July 2006 enables AREVA to access centrifugation technology. This process has been in use in the Georges Besse II plant in Tricastin, France, started production in April, 2011 and which is scheduled for full production capacity in 2016.
http://www.areva.com/EN/operations-822/centrifugation-and-gaseous-diffusion-2-processes-for-separating-u235-and-u238.html
Luger – http://alpes.france3.fr/sites/regions_france3/files/styles/top_big/public/assets/images/chevaline_luger_1.jpg?itok=0lr-SV96
shooting it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDmijzctCGI
on this one if you look beyond in middle distance you can just see the used casings fall. “Up and to the right” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMuNNO-1KWA&feature=fvwp
now in your mind’s eye project this on to a shooter outside the driver’s door shooting in. The casings would have all likely ended up in the road and certainly not by the rear offside.
have a look at this one. what’s the white patch top right centre behind police van? could that be the dust bin to the right? is it police taped off to rear and above van? if so, and its a long shot, this is the lower layby. surely no bullets there?
sorry this was the chevaline photo referred to above
http://s.tf1.fr/mmdia/i/29/0/tuerie-de-chevaline-un-scenario-zero-piste-10795290phska_1713.jpg?v=1
And this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Cream_Man_(business)
This is shocking.
The Camp Chapman attack was a suicide attack by Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi against the Central Intelligence Agency facility inside Forward Operating Base Chapman on December 30, 2009. FOB Chapman is located near the eastern Afghan city of Khost, which is about 10 miles northwest of the Pakistani border. One of the main tasks of the CIA personnel stationed at the base was to provide intelligence supporting drone attacks against targets in Pakistan.[1] Seven American CIA officers and contractors, an officer of Jordan’s intelligence service, and an Afghan working for the CIA were killed when al-Balawi detonated a bomb sewn into a vest he was wearing. Six other American CIA officers were wounded. The bombing was the most lethal attack against the CIA in more than 25 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Chapman_attack
Al-Balawi was a Jordanian doctor and jihadist website writer who was detained and interrogated over three days by the Jordanian intelligence service, the General Intelligence Directorate (GID), in January 2009. The GID and the CIA thought they had turned al-Balawi to penetrate al-Qaeda in the Pakistani tribal areas to provide intelligence for high-level targets. Instead, al-Balawi used this trust to gain access to the CIA base in Afghanistan unsearched and perpetrate the attack. The Pakistani Taliban and al-Qaeda claimed responsibility, saying they helped al-Balawi with the attack
http://www.cutestpaw.com/images/my-friends-happy-dog/
laughing or yawning ?
You decide.
I can’t look anymore, it makes me stressed.
On David’s knee. Its shocking.
Opting for minimal make-up, the star wore her long brunette locks falling in tousled waves around her shoulders, and later added a stylish pair of aviator-style sunglasses to her look as she headed out for a celebratory dinner at Soho’s Balthazar restaurant.
Although there’s no denying Victoria looked the epitome of understated chic, she was overshadowed somewhat by her adorable two-year-old daughter, Harper, who sat on doting daddy David’s knee on the front row
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2415515/Victoria-Beckham-channels-androgynous-look-masculine-monochrome-tailoring-makes-fleeting-appearance-NYFW-show.html