Behind Imran’s Hounding

by craig on October 28, 2012 10:03 am in Uncategorized

Pulling Imran Khan off a plane in Canada, and making him miss his Eid fundraising lunch in New York, is pretty crass of the United States, a country that claims its foreign policy is motivated by freedom. The idea that low level US immigration operatives needed clarificiation on Khan’s well-known views on killings by US drones in Pakistan is plainly nonsense. But this wasn’t routine or an error; Khan wasn’t questioned at a desk on arrival in New York, he was pulled off a plane by US operatives in Canada. It was an exercise in humiliation.

But if you look under this event you find some interesting, creepy crawly creatures.

From the Toronto Sun report linked above:

The American Islamic Leadership Coalition from Phoenix, Ariz. wrote to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton earlier this week, pressuring her to revoke the U.S. visa granted to Khan because of his sympathetic views towards the Taliban.

The American Islamic Leadership Coalition followed this up with a press release with the notably un-Islamic contact name of Gregg Edgar of Gordon C James Public Relations.

From Wikipedia on Gordon C James:

James grew up in Phoenix, Arizona and moved to Iowa in 1969 where he served several years in the Iowa National Guard. James worked in the real-estate management business in Des Moines, renting space to presidential candidates in town for the caucuses. In 1978, he met and rented space to former President of the United States George H. W. Bush (then Ambassador Bush).[1]
After the 1988 election James worked as Lead Advance Representative at the White House for two years under President George H.W. Bush and Director of Invitations and Ticketing for the 51st Presidential Inaugural Committee.[2] James was also employed as deputy director of events for the 54th and 55th Presidential Inauguration.[3] In 1990 he founded the public relations firm Gordon C. James Public Relations.
In 2004, James was employed by former U.S. Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove to improve U.S. public relations in Iraq during the transition of governments.[4] For more than five months he served as the Director of Advance and Special Events in the Office of Strategic Communications and Director of the Presidential Palace Studio for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad, Iraq. While there he advised Ambassador Paul Bremer and was responsible for coordinating the Ambassador’s relations with Western and Pan-Arab media outlets and produced several events including the signing of the Tal (Iraq’s Declaration of Independence) and 100 Days to Sovereignty, the countdown to the transfer of power from the CPA to newly founded Iraqi government.[5]
In 2004 James assisted in several political stops with the Bush-Cheney campaign and in 2005, he was employed as lead advance representative for President George H.W. Bush and President Bill Clinton’s tour of the Tsunami-hit regions of Indonesia.[6]
James has traveled to five continents as a lead advance representative for President George W. Bush and First Lady Laura Bush.

There are some Muslims in the American Islamic Leadership Coalition. In Phoenix with Gordon C James is M Zuhdi Jasser, of Syrian origin but for eleven years a medical officer in the US Navy. And the AILC has another interesting Syrian, leader of “The Reform Party of Syria”, Farid Ghadry. The AILC website includes the quote:

“Gossip is he is the next president of Syria”

Ghadry lives in Washington and is the author of such fascinating blog posts as “Israel Builds for Nobel Prizes, Arabs are Suicide Bombers”.

Like the Quilliam Foundation in the UK, doubtless the AILC has hoovered up plenty of public funds for its useful work for the security services. BUt the idea that it genuinely represents a strand in Islamic thinking is ludicrous. It is marvellous what being an establishment shill can do for your media profile though. Zuhdi Jasser addressed his largest mass rally of supporters – highly optimistically estimated by the media as three dozen – in a New York rally in support of NYPD’s controversial surveillance and agent provocateur operations against Muslims. Rather than laughing at it, the tame mainstream media covered it infinitely better than they cover anti-war rallies 1,000 times larger, and portrayed it as a genuine sign of Muslim community support for the surveillance.

Just as none of the mainstream media reporting the current Imran Khan story – most of whon quote the AILC – say anything about who the AILC really are. What do people working in the mainstream media think the purpose of their existence actually is?

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  1. willyrobinson

    28 Oct, 2012 - 10:16 am

    Good work.

  2. Well spotted. Simple sleuthing. Major exposé. Dumb and compromised media.

  3. The purpose of mainstream media workers is to stay employed, best assured by remaining in good standing with the powers that be.

  4. willyrobinson

    28 Oct, 2012 - 10:27 am

    I was always struck when listening to friends and colleagues who had escaped from Saddam’s Iraq or Assad’s Syria, just how personally the whole thing was taken by the authorities. Seeking asylum was a personal insult to the Great Leader, and his revenge equally so if you got caught.
    Disappointed to see back to back US administrations behaving more and more like Saddam would have.

  5. Enough said.

    I see that ‘Lady’ Conrad Black nee Barbara Amiel was a one time editor, she of the high maintenance lifestyle.

    Current owners of the rag are Quebecor owned by a French Canadian mob that includes Brian Mulroney on the board.

  6. While Imran Khan is being derided in the USA; the five British soldiers charged with murder are going to be hailed as heroes across the UK even before the trial has begun and the public are kept in the dark about the details of the alleged murder.

    From the BBC:

    “Events are planned across the country later in support of five Royal Marines charged with murder over an incident in Afghanistan last year.

    `The “show support” events are being organised in several cities including Edinburgh, Swansea, Norwich and London.

    The Ministry of Defence says it would be inappropriate to comment further on the on-going investigation.

    Green lapel ribbons – some bearing the words “Free the 5″ – will be worn by those who say the charges are unjust.”

    Would the above not be attempts to pervert the course of justice?

  7. The purpose of mainstream corporate ‘journalists’ is to be effective propaganda echo-chambers’ for official forms of state power. That is their primary role.

  8. Wrt Pakistan, here is very good documentary on Benazir Bhutto. It came out 2-3 years ago and is 2 hours long. Here, on the site linked to below, it is free and is in 12 minute segments which automatically segue on to the next segment. Strongly recommended.


    What happened to Imran Khan will simply raise his political credibility in Pakistan – as happened with his (by him, much-longed-for) high-profile arrest and (very short) imprisonment during the end-days of the Musharraf regime.

    All of the organisations to which Craig alludes in this post – and there are a number of others too – are problematic (as the term goes) – some indeed have been alleged to be fronts for the US/UK/Canadian sec-intel complex and some, allegedly funded by Israel/Israeli interests.

    The problems include Imran Khan and his party, its possible role (one of several) in potentially splitting the (relatively) progressive vote, its drift towards Islamism and so on. He is likely to be the ISI’s preferred candidate – the military moves civilian politicians around like chess-pieces and his recent rise to ‘contendership’ (to reference Brando) after many years of political irrelevance would tend to support that view. Nawaz Sharif (Right-wing ‘mainstream’ Islamist party) – another longstanding military/ISI creation – has much power in Punjab but not elsewhere and so the military wants to keep its options open. The ISI/Pakistan Military absolutely hates the PP/Zardari, stops – and has always stopped – the progressive elements (they are there, though not the dominant bloc) in that party/ anyone else from achieving real socio-economic, de-Islamisatory, etc. change in the country and wants to continue to promulgate its Islamist paramilitaries in Pakistan and Afghanistan/Kashmir as extensions of its (enormous) wealth and power in South and Central Asia. The tussles right now – which we see in these events – are reflections of those b/w the military and civilian foci of power in Pakistan. These are complex matters. The main problem in Pakistan is the military. Get rid of military hegemony and there would be a chance. Without that, nothing will change. That is the bottom line in all of these dynamics.

  9. Monbiot is having a (rather weak) dig at Medialens. He says the guardian is full of anti-corporate stuff and media lens are testy.

  10. What do people working in the mainstream media think the purpose of their existence actually is?

    A brave and impartial corps of crusaders for the 24-hour translation of press releases into infotainment.

  11. US authorities attitude shows the arrogance, corruption of idea of national security and intolerance. Mr Khan is very passionate about the failure of ongoing war on terror with serious loss in terms of human lives, economics and security in Pakistan. It is about time to rethink whole strategy and give peace a chance.

  12. People like Tarek Fatah call Imran Khan a taliban apologist while taliban call Imran Khan a secular, liberal and an american agent…
    All Imran Khan talks about is peace

  13. Why has Obama, elected on a platform of ethical concerns at the standards that went before, never touched American border control’s long running violation of innocent until proved guilty? That Amercia does not observe the oldest of all the human rights standard the west claims, undermines its claimed basis for every war. America askes foreign visitors, even from its close allies with perpetually compliant governments, “Have you ever been arrested or convicted/” as a single question. It requires you to tell them of any innocent arrest, that did not lead to any conviction and that might have been malicious, to judge your character from. I can never remember hearing our media say a word about it, even before the War on Terror era.

  14. The silence of the lambs suckled by the press barons is unremarkable. What surprises me is that anyone without profound masochistic leanings would want to visit the “land of the free”. Unless of course he has some pecuniary interests there and hopes to bring home few dollars. Can Craig or any of the commentator of his posts conceive any other reason for undertaking such a potentially perilous journey? Answers like “Because it’s there.”, given by George Mallory, when asked “Why do you want to climb Mount Everest?” are discounted. There is some moral in this story, however, in that Mallory has never returned to tell us what it was like over “there”. May I recommend to those who want to disappear, because of marital or financial problems, to travel to places that are just “there”.

  15. “About Dr. Paul Craig Roberts”

    “Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following.”

    I think we are all heading into big trouble.

  16. I am part of the AILC; are you suggesting I am part of some large Jewish conspiracy? Spell it out Craig Murray. I am no guilt-ridden whie liberal infatuated by the Taliban or the Muslim Brotherhood because they so look so quaint.

    Some of us have lived, fought and survived Islamism unlike you who seem to be enjoying a circus and couldn’t care less what the clown who entertain you, do when their masks are off.

    If Imran Khan’s fascism charms you, go settle down in Pakistan and live in my shoes and stop insinuating about some rightwing BS about the AILC. I’m a marxist who couldn’t care less about about the GOP, the idiot Tea Party creationists or their mirror images in the Islamic world, the Imran Khan creationists who charm you.

    The racism of lower expectations you practise comes to millionaires mimicking misery who play revolutions on video games, not real life.

    You are welcome to embrace homophobe, misogynist creationists of Islamdom, but then own up to that creed.

    Tarek Fatah

  17. Forensic journalism at it’s best – Thank-you.

  18. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 3:37 pm

    “Forensic journalism”

    Heh. Try to do an autopsy on that Zombie corpse.

  19. Welcome Tarek. Nobody said anything about Jewish conspiracies, except you. I see that in your very long Wikpedia entry it says you support the Canadian Liberal Party. That is very strange considering you turn up here claiming to be a Marxist. Feel free to explain.

  20. Tarek Fatah,

    You rushed to judge Manji’s book and you have ‘hot-footed’ here to attempt to make short work of Craig’s comment.

    You misconstrued the words of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, obfuscating his comments on Israel and the nefarious Zionist regime.

    You have agreed America conspired to smash Iraq yet you blame a passive Iran.

    You are bewildered and darkened by your own emotional disorder Tarek; your scramble to arbitrate is without awareness or indeed consciousness and that will be your storm, your ruin.

  21. Karel, at 2:45pm on 28.10.12:

    Well, Imran Khan would want to travel to the USA because, firstly, there is a large, sometimes wealthy and influential Pakistani ex-pat population in the USA, so it’s natural that Imran Khan would want to visit at this time just before elections in Pakistan. Secondly, he’s been there many times before – it’s nothing unusual – and in fact has a daughter there (as he was forced to admit, some years ago). Thirdly, it is impossible for any politician, anywhere to ignore the USA, esp. when there is a war going on in the NW of Pakistan and in neighbouring Afghanistan involving US troops and Special Forces, the CIA, etc. He may well also be meeting with US officials – covertly – and so maybe this show of border controls was to dispel any suspicions of that. He may be reassuring the US Administration that rhetoric is one thing, action, quite another, so that they switch sides, from the PPP Govt to Imran Khan’s party. Who knows?

    The episode strikes me as a bit of political gamesmanship just before the US (and Pakistan) elections. Or it might just be over-zealous officials as in the case of Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islma) visiting Dolly Parton, after which, they made this funny video – see link.

    But really, these matters – Imran Khan, his party, the Army, ISI et al are complex; one cannot simply boil them down to ‘goodies and baddies’. Not does it supply enlightenment simply to iterate reflexively. Imran Khan, Navaz Sharif and all the religious parties are all creations of the Pakistan military-intelligence complex that is the real ruler of Pakistan. Imran Khan never, ever criticises the Pakistan Army. Does it not occur to one that somebody who professes to real democracy and redistribution of wealth (btw, wrt wealth distribution, Imran does not, he’s rightwing economically), healthcare, education, etc. would have to do that? Imran has moved towards the Islamist camp. He knows where his brea is buttered and he knows that what happened to Benazir Bhutto would happen to him tomorrow – yesterday – if ever he deviates from the path of ‘Milbus’ (military-business). Same-old, same-old, then.

    Finally, if ever you get a chance to visit the USA, it would be useful for you to do so. Whether we are vassals or opponents, or something in between, all must learn and know the perfidious ways of empire. Go to Washington, DC and stop at the Metro station named, ‘Pentagon’. And think of Ozymandias.

  22. In Gordon C. James’ own words, as reported by the Phoenix Business Journal:

    “We are known as a Republican firm because of our more than 30-year relationship with the Bush family. Not too many Democrats call us for political help”

    If AILC is not aligned with the Republicans, it does indeed seem a strange choice of PR firm for AILC.

  23. This al Fatah seems to me a profoundly confused man who is trying to tell us that we should all move to Pakistan. Just because it is there, I presume. Silly idea only because of the drones. Perhaps al Fatah will somehow arrange that the bombing stops.
    I cannot uderstand why he, as a “marxist”, brings homophobia into his stew. Any educated marxist should know that homosexuality was punishable (up to five years) in the Soviet Union (the marxist paradise) and abolished only in 1993. I suspect that he is either a very stupid marxist or a liar or most likely both. I hope, that he will not try to teach us here what real marxism is like. Nowdays, anyone who ostensibly calls himself “marxist” is most probably a zionist or a zionist stooge.

  24. Thanks for another great article, don’t expect the MSM, screwing itself down with 6″ self tapers to Q’s floor, to anywhere go near asking what flea bitten souls are hiding behind the AILC.

    Welcome Tarek Fatah, what is your problem with Pakistan and its people, did you not support the CIA madrasas who created the Taliban? and who do you think in Pakistan is helping to make this war on terror a self perpetuating roundabout were terror creates more demand for terror.

    Don’t you think Pakistan’s society is not fed up with these divisions stultifying their countries growth and economic possibilities? this secret war being conducted with illegal drones, most times hitting innocent civilians indiscriminately? Should you not yourself help these poor victims of slaughter from great hight? being the good Muslim you are do you recognise that it is Harram to kill children and innocent civilians?

    thank you Mark G. for your eloquence.

  25. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 4:28 pm

    The trouble with Marxism, Nevermind , is that he takes Hegel’s Dialectic (which swings perpetually) and extrapolates that Marxism will make the pendulum stop. No evidence for that, is there?

  26. Suhayl Saadi, It was a rhetorical questions. Millions travel to the USA who have neither daughters, nor gradmothers nor anyone they know in that place. Nor are these travelers potential candidates for a high office and need money to get elected. This is a clear pecuniary interest as I stated in my previous commentary. Is it so difficult to understand such a simple question?

  27. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 4:29 pm

    Sorry, Nevermind. That was to Karel.

  28. We also ought to avoid the temptation to label every progressive Muslim organisation a CIA front – that most certainly is not the case. Some might be, who knows? But not all, by any means. It’s a pity that internecine stuff often splits progressive Muslims – I think we ought to look at what unites us and accept that we will disagree on this or that, as do all people with one another. As we know, the Jihadists cooperate with one another.

    In the UK, there’s the British Muslims for Secular Democracy, a decent body:

    And there’s the Muslim Institute, in which Ziauddin Sardar and Merryl Wyn Jones are leading lights:

    Usual prefixes.

    Anyway, in Pakistan/the Pakistani diaspora, to struggle against Islamism is to struggle against power, wealth and systemic oppression – the power and wealth of Saudi Arabia with its petrodollar-fueled toxic (em)mission and of the Pakistani generals, and theirs. Naturally, other foci of power will attempt to instrumentalise these dynamics. I always think it’s important not to become a vehicle for anyone’s imperial ambitions. So, to fight Islamism, one must not become a squire for the Dukes of the Potomac (or the Earls of the Thames). The on the ground, economic struggle – and not theology – has to be at the centre of any policy and practice.

  29. “Nowdays, anyone who ostensibly calls himself “marxist” is most probably a zionist or a zionist stooge.” Karel, at 4:29pm, on 28.10.12

    How so? What about all those South American Marxists, or those many others influenced by Marxist thought? Or is it simply because Karl Marx came from a Jewish background, that you make this assertion (presumably not rhetorically)?

    Have you not been to the Pentagon Metro Station? You really should think of going.

  30. Good piece of detective work Craig Murray. You can see who’s behind all this shit in the world. It backs up into the Bush sewerage system.

    I was proud of Imran Khan in ignoring Western-generated false news about his life being in danger when he visited West Pakistan border regions in protest at the use of drones in the region by office-bound joystick manipulators in the west. If it was in danger it was in danger from the West. Imran Khan is a good man, a man with a conscience. A good cricketer too in his day.

    I tried to post this three times and keep getting “Unable to establish a database connection error” message.

  31. It’s nearly Halloween and this proves that the living dead can return to haunt us. He says he intends to return to the Lords. He is apparently called Lord Bannside!

  32. Suhayl Could you explain what is special about the Pentagon metro station. I am intrigued. Is it a vast space that diminishes the human being or some other sort of statement?

  33. (Hi all. If anyone got an error in the last five mins, nothing to worry about. Just trying new anti-spam stuff).

  34. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 6:08 pm

    Jon; Just a point of Order; On the previous thread, the first Chinese spammer had a time-stamp of around midnight your time. Were you on at that time? Just curious.

  35. Karel said
    ‘Nowdays, anyone who ostensibly calls himself “marxist” is most probably a zionist or a zionist stooge.’

    would you include young Malala in this?

    Further, although he might not want to speak up about it Is this not the far greater fright to Tarek, just as the fears of the Taliban were expressed in this attempted murder, that communism once again is popular enough and could get a foothold in Afghanistan.

    Ben, de nada

  36. Dick the Prick

    28 Oct, 2012 - 6:42 pm

    Just curious but what does ‘The racism of lower expectations you practise comes to millionaires mimicking misery who play revolutions on video games, not real life’ mean? Is it infering that to critically analyse is an action of covert racism? It’s a great line but it’s bally incoherent.

  37. Q. What do people working in the mainstream media think the purpose of their existence actually is?

    A. To serve the status quo.

  38. Schadenfreude!

    New blow for billionaire Nat Rothschild after his boat builder ‘fails to deliver £35million superyacht’

    Banking scion in legal battle with makers of his 240ft superyacht
    One of four millionaires in dispute with manufacturer Peter Landers
    Extraordinary sequence of events leads to police raid off Gibraltar

  39. An end to the spambots now with Jon’s inclusion of Captcha. Thank you.

  40. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 7:34 pm


  41. “You are welcome to embrace homophobe, misogynist creationists of Islamdom, but then own up to that creed.”

    Tarek Fatah is a degenerate self-hating whoore worth a couple of sheckles, give him a couple of glasses of zionist man-milk and he is ready to go.

  42. Nevermind, there are many of us who are called marxist or claim to be marxists. I used to be one of those accused of being one but never quite understood what the accusers meant. The problem is that it is rather difficult to explain what this label actually means. It seems that this Malala, as sorry as I am about her and other injured children in pakistan, totally dominates the discourse on unrelated matters. You can just as well bring in the holocaust or 9 fucking 11. I just do not know what so and so said and whether so and so is a taliban or a marxist. I am not convinced that there is a grain of truth in the sources you are quoting and doubt very much that the so called taliban (soon we will all fall into that category) cares about who is a marxist and who is not and actually knows what it implies. If someone writes that “taliban said” than you can just laugh about it. Communism in Afghanistan? a sick joke. If you are convinced or stand behind that what you write then we can have a bet. Clark has my E-mail. Just write to me with your proposals but do not forget to define what you mean by communism.

    Suhay Saadi you are right that it is not so in South America. Neither Chavez nor Castro are zionists. But what about Canada, USA or Europe?? I have been neither to Pentagon nor to its station. Should I go there? Would I be well received?

  43. Very valuable observations. Thanks, Craig. Closely following the events in Pakistan, the coming four years are set to be very interesting…

  44. Mary, Karel, ha! Thanks. Re. the Pentagon Metro station, no, there’s nothing special about it at all, apart from the fact that there are lots of people in uniform getting on and off the trains. That’s the point, I suppose, it’s ‘nothing special’, it’s neither the Colosseum or the statue of Sargon, it’s just business as usual, with clipboards and briefcases, and yet – and so – right there, above the station, is the pulsing heart of empire. It’s the thought, you know?

  45. BTW, Tarek’s opinin, however expressed, of Imran’s fascism is not totally baseless… For whatever I’ve heard, it looks like another dictator in the making.

    (Not that the current rulers of Pakistan are anything better.)

  46. Jon,

    what is your and Craig’s position on the issues of silencing true posters, due to privacy or acessability issues?

    I’d appreciate this matter be taken seriously with weeks (not days) of prior notice (not buried in some thread) and opportunity for discussion before the door slams shut, as I raised in an earlier post about Captchas and registration.

    If this math quiz requires javascript, that may already shut out some.

  47. In AILC’s very first press release they say:

    “AILC was created by American Muslim leaders after being brought together with the help of members of the Congressional anti-terror caucus. The coalition held its first formal meeting in Washington, DC on Capitol Hill on September 26, 2010.”

    As the “Congressional anti-terror caucus” supports US drone attacks, it really is no surprise that the organisation they “brought together” should stand against a prominent opponent of drone attacks.

    The press release goes on to say:

    “AILC supports the efforts of Congressman Peter King [Republican – New York] as a catalyst for a Muslim-led open dialogue on the growing problem of radicalization within Muslim communities.”

    Peter T. King R-NY is Chairman of the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security, and a member of the U.S. House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, so I suspect is central to the “Congressional anti-terror caucus” that “brought together” AILC. This caucus very likely influenced AILC to choose the Republican PR firm Gordon C James Public Relations to represent AILC.

  48. Keith Crosby

    28 Oct, 2012 - 8:29 pm


    Monbiot is having a (rather weak) dig at Medialens. He says the guardian is full of anti-corporate stuff and media lens are testy.

    I think he meant “tasty” ;O)

  49. (Hi Ben, I think I wasn’t around at the time, and zapped the spam later. Tbh I do so much thread reviewing it’s hard to remember when I did what!

    Mary, you’re most welcome. Let me know if there’s any problems. Hopefully it should mean that all real contributions are published immediately.

    Snap, post that on an older thread please, so we keep this thread on-topic; I’ll get back to you when I can. Also, try to remember I’m a volunteer.)

  50. Romney Rep. Peter King: Presidential Kill List “Totally Constitutional”

    Obama Supporters Actually Hate Obama’s Policies
    ***ATTENTION: This video is NOT in support of Mitt Romney, in any way, nor is this organization***

  51. as for the MSM, if ever proof was needed that they exist only to uphold the left/right paradigm, this would be it. just think how BBC/Guardian led the ferocious attack on murdoch media over the phone hacking scandal, and yet we now have:

    BBC: Jimmy Savile and the BBC: Who’s who
    Nick Pollard
    Former head of Sky News Nick Pollard has been asked by the BBC to
    investigate why the Newsnight investigation was dropped last year. He will look at whether there were any management failings by the BBC. He will also look at the handling by the Newsnight investigation of material that might have been of interest to the police or relevant authorities

    Mr Entwistle told MPs he was bringing in Dinah Rose QC – who represented News International in phone hacking cases – to look at how the BBC handles sexual harassment cases.

    and the most extraordinary thing is not the Guardian, nor any other MSM, has found these BBC appointments IRONIC! LOL.

  52. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 10:08 pm


    Don’t know if I should get out my arithmetic flash-cards again, or what.

    Captcha keeps giving me error messages.

  53. (Ben, thanks – however you managed that one! If you can record error messages, the captchas you were presented with and the answers you gave – and post on an older thread – I’ll look into it/them. Early days yet, I may have to do some tweaking :) )

  54. Glenn Greenwald on the matter. Plus 488 comments!

    US detention of Imran Khan part of trend to harass anti-drone advocates

    The vindictive humiliation of Pakistan’s most popular politician shows the US government’s intolerance for dissent

    Glenn Greenwald, Sunday 28 October 2012 14.06 GMT

  55. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 10:33 pm

    ” Plus 488 comments!”

    Rather evenly divided on his bona fides…

  56. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 10:40 pm

    Jon; Just had another thread-fart. It seems futile to continue to enter the equations.

    When I ‘reloaded’ or refreshed, the problema disappeared. I think the problem occurs when you fail to enter the captcha at first post, which I do, frequently.

  57. Tarek Fatah a marxist? That is new. In Toronto he usually claims that he is a Muslim and appears on all kinds on conservatives shows and talks there as a Muslim.

    Now about his Marxism. He was in a left of center Student Association in the late 60s when he was barely adult. It was not a marxist group by any means. He was arrested during a public demonstration, spent sometime in jail and after the release, got a job with Pakistan TV during the PPP Government under Zulfiqar Bhutto. He was dismissed from PTV and then landed in Saudi Arabia wehre he used to offer prayers five times a day. He never mentioned his Marism in Saudia.

    You know what they do with people who call themselves Marxist in Saudi Arabia?

    He landed in Toronto sometime in the late 90s and now he writes columns for conservative newspaper, appears in shows as a Muslim-not Marxist- analyst, showed up in a Jewish meeting with Daniel Pipes and walked out of the meeting as some speaker hurt his Muslim feelings.
    He works with Daniel Pipes, a conservative Islamophobe.

    Most of this info is gleaned from Tarek Fatah’s own writings and his couple of pages on Facebook.

  58. just testing

  59. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    28 Oct, 2012 - 11:24 pm

    Harry; EXTREMELY interesting. Is it anecdotal, or is a link within reach?

  60. Ben,
    Search Google and if you have Facebook account, search Facebook and you will find the info. He has more pages too.

  61. Some people using the Marxist name to hide their fascism and haters.
    Craig Thanks alot for raising ur voice n exposing AILC

    Tarek Fatah Change his identify according to need, he encash his muslim back ground and when he to speak against Muslims he become marxist

  62. What do you expect sir. A family member, with terminal AML, is going to to have his life shortened because he could not obtain “Liposomal Amphotericin B” because of the sanction. It is apparently possible to import regular Amphotericin from India but the regular Ampho B is nephrotoxic and needs very close monitoring. The liposomal one can only be obtained through two western companies and obviously these companies are not charities. If you can not pay them, you can not buy the medication. They have shut down the payment system for even these basic necessities. I think humiliating Imran Khan is the least that you can expect from them.

    Somewhat beside the point of your article, do you have any SOLUTION to this?

  63. ‘What do people working in the mainstream media think the purpose of their existence actually is?’
    Well here in Australia it’s putting everything the Labor government does in a negative light and making stuff up where necessary, not following up or presenting anything negative about the conservaties, and generally doing everything they can to make sure the conservatives win the next election.

  64. @Suhayl Saadi
    Regarding your comments on ISI’s hidden support for IK. I think this is a slightly misconstrued issue. Fact of the matter is that IK knows very well that army has controlled Pakistan for a long time and corruption of generals in general and bloated defense expenditure in specific is something public is not well aware of. So, rallying around a slogan where general awareness is low is a bad political choice to begin with. Secondly, in countries like Turkey and Egypt, wherever army’s influence has been diffused, it was done strategically and only after civilians gained enough political strength to displace army’s influence. Lastly, IK already has enough well entrenched opponents other than establishment in the form of current political lot, feudal lords, industrialists, bureaucrats, media, and militants to deal with. So, the less opponents he takes on from the outset, the less political bleeding he will have to incur till the run up to elections. Essentially the idea is to delay the confrontation as much as possible till the political movement reaches critical mass and it has enough resources and influence to re-configure the power structure of the country.


    I was thinking of going to see Jack Straw do a talk.

    I am interested to hear what the man has to say and the questions asked him. Should I just give my mone to a charitable cause if so the first charity mentioned will get it.


  66. Why would anyone pay good money (£10) to hear a lying war criminal? He is only trying to flog his useless book Last Man Standing. That can be purchased for £10 at Amazon, now half price.

    The talk ad uses the same photo on the book cover which shows him with pale blue eyes.

    Photoshop is so clever.

    Nearly all the entries in his extensive register of interests are in the £hundreds or £thousands viz:

    Consultant to ED & F MAN Holdings Ltd; commodity traders, advising the group and its senior executives on the international and national environment in which it operates and on other specific matters. Address: Cottons Centre, Hays Lane, London SE1 2QE (£25,001-£30,000) Payment received on a quarterly basis.

    Goreign trips, free holidays in the US for his wife and himnself, airline upgrades, writing and speaking fees ad infinitum and this the funniest of them all –

    2 August 2011, received payment of £750 from The Guardian, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9GU for book review of Alistair Campbell diaries. Hours: 8 hrs. (Registered 3 October 2011)


  67. I’m a marxist who couldn’t care less about about the GOP, the idiot Tea Party creationists or their mirror images in the Islamic world, the Imran Khan creationists who charm you.

    Then perhaps you need to distance yourself from the likes of Pipes and Rove.The neoconservatives whose agenda for the Middle East you are apparently happy with have a shared heritage:

    Which is possibly what Karel means when he says that Marxists are Zionists.

    Choose: do you wish to help your people or Israel? That’s all it’s about.

  68. A travesty. An injustice.

    Greek magazine editor in court for naming alleged tax evaders

    A magazine editor in Greece will appear in court after publishing the names of more than 2,000 wealthy Greeks alleged to have Swiss bank accounts, triggering a row over tax evasion that threatens the stability of the government.

    Kostas Vaxevanis was arrested on Sunday, after his weekly journal, Hot Doc, printed the list of names, which including prominent members of Greece’s political and business elite.

    The editor was giving a live radio interview when police arrived, and broke off saying he had to go “to be arrested”. At the same he tweeted about the arrest, comparing the police to German stormtroopers in the second world war. In another tweet he wrote: “They’re entering my house with the prosecutor right now. They are arresting me. Spread the word.”

    Police officials said that Vaxevanis had illegally published personal details without proof that the people involved had broken the law. But he and other critics of the government have portrayed his arrest as part of a cover-up intended to obscure claims that the finance ministry had had the list for more than two years without taking action against those named.


  69. Sorry O/T but have only just come across this scandal. The land belongs to US and is not for profit by property developers, the construction industry and other friends of the Tories.

    Meet “PropCo” who are set to oversee a £5.2bn sell off of NHS land.


    The knock-on effect: PCTs, PropCo and social enterprises{}

  70. We are living in a secret fascist state.

    NHS Property Services Ltd. A private limited company.

    ‘Sorry, there is no director information for this company’

  71. Its registered address. Worthy of the stasi.

  72. Check
    @ Karel. Please read what happened under Najibullah during the late 1980’s, you can not discount a marxist/communist party/movement if it had flourished already and has a base.

    Compared to the Taliban’s war lordism, it has a good chance to become established. His dogfight with Karmal, who was against his programme of national reconciliation and, most important, his talk of an Islamic communist state was the sting in the tail. Do not discount the memories of a better schooling and health service under Najibullah, Karel.

    And don’t for one minute believe that I support communism in any of its manifestations, it is far too simple and unrefined, designed by a bourgeois Marx, who’s ideas sadly have not come to anything much but authoritarianism ripping off the people.

    Looking at the Straussian school of neocons, the whole Chicago outfall, taught by a disturbed man who suffered badly in Germany, it is not surprising that the same authoritarian tone that was prevalent in 1930’s Germany has permiated the policies and theories of neo-colonialists.

    Once those who are currently repressed by the mullahs and military in Pakistan, the state war lords as I may coin a phrase, supported by a rich upper echelon in society, rise up and change the equation, a system of marxism has good chances there, as much as in Afghanistan next door.

    Don’t discount it.

    As to Malala herself, she has been used, by her father, who recognised her outgoing easy communicative nature, by the BBC who thought to make a selective point that fits their agenda, by NATO and the US to scent and refresh their campaign with a ‘human angle’ as well as me here to make a point.
    I sincerely apologise and shall be less feckless in future.

  73. Wonder what would happen if the Pakistanis pulled Mitt Romney off a plane for questioning about his views on drones?

  74. Thanks for the captcha,Jon,seems to work OK. Can we make the maths more challenging, bring an educational angle into this? :)

    Some quadratic equations or, as a reminder to our Charlemagne crusaders here, Algebra of the finest, a thanks to Arabic culture and knowledge.

  75. Jibe. David Cameron yachting term.
    Change course by swinging a fore-and-aft sail across a following wind.

    2 years after filling the pockets of Al-CIAda in Syria to start a civil war against president Assad, USUKIS is saying that Oh my God, our pants are on fire. The jewhadists in Syria have become radicalised.

    For 2 years the world’s politicians have solemnly promised not to get involved, but now, inevitably excuse no. 559 has been raised which allows ships’ captains under full sail to jibe/ U turn, swinging the boom and sail across the ship under a full wind.

    Petrol resources will have to be secured by US troops as in Libya and hundreds of tonnes of bombs will have to descend. On Nov. 5th I wouldn’t be surprised.

  76. Why stop at maths, Nevermind? We could implement Gove’s ideas for the curriculum right here.

  77. Tarek Fatah does not survive critical inspection. He has produced material insulting to Shi’a Islam under the aegis of MEMRI – founder Meyrav Wurmser (didn’t even have to look it up – this is a #1 old skool US/Israeli neocon disinformation outfit)….

    He has a track record of sympathy to Saudi Wahhabism, and is obviously a very useful idiot in the ongoing propaganda war on Iran.

    And he’s a “Marxist”?

    Good to see you here, Tarek. We don’t often see specimens like you.

  78. The link to the anonymous office block in a side street in SE1, the registered address for NHS Property Services Ltd (no director information??) should have been

  79. And its on the 4th, floor, Mary, guaranteed to have no crux with wheelchair users then.

  80. Commesick Commesark

    29 Oct, 2012 - 10:19 am

    What has been entirely forgotten is that Nagasaki was bombed THREE DAYS AFTER Hiroshima – there was NO NEED, the Japanese only had to be given a further warning. The Great Satan exposed. We are seeing the exact same more modern blockade against Iran now. Which brings to mind the DHS purchase of a billion dum dum bullets,they are prepared for wide spread civil strife, only to be expected after a retaliatory nuclear strike by the Iranians/Soviets/Pakistanis/N Koreans? The 3,000 TNWs missing from the former Soviet Unions arsenal may yet find their way to the NYSE,CME and the Pentagon?! The face of the mortally wounded Great Satan may then be seen in James Carville – direct descendent of Jedidiah Heep, inventor of the smallpox infected blanket strategy ! Big Chief No Shit will have finally found closure !

  81. Quite so Nevermind. On the magnified street map version, the location is tagged as ‘NHS Smoking Helpline’. So NHS Property Services Ltd has been hidden away there by Lansley and his gang. How many other UK companies have no information on the directors. Accounts do not have to be filed until next year.

  82. Saudi Wahabism Komodo

    What’s that? Lizard nappy rash or what most UK Muslims call Sunni Islam?

  83. the likes of suhayl and tarek amuse me no end. what amuses me even more is the thought of ik as a fascist or of the right. its very peculiarly a pakistan propaganda that has the pro american self proclaimed liberals as being of the left. just how does support for the pro zionist neocon political agenda be of the left?
    i wouldnt call obama or the democrats of being of the left nor would i view netanyahu or any mainstream israeli party to be of the left. in the uk there is no mainstream representation of the left all because mainstream politics has been pulled to right of center.
    in american terms drones were made just for the likes of IK. whilst the cia/raw/uk special forces fund arm train the so called pak taliban & whose leaders live under the protection of usa in afghanistan. and they the pak taliban make timely attacks on young girls especially if their name is malala .. and certainly not if a victim of an american/uk drone.

  84. Guano: Extreme and intolerant Sunni sect. The spiritual impetus for the Taleban. Not to be confused with Sunnis at large. Read up on it yourself, it’s interesting. Not least for the West’s unquestioning support for extreme and intolerant Saudi Arabia to keep petrol prices down.

  85. Mary – dug this out for you..

    Company Name: NHS PROPERTY SERVICES LIMITED Company No: 07888110

    Total Current Directors 7
    Total Current Secretaries 0
    Total Previous Directors / Company Secretaries 1

    Current Directors

    Name Peter Alexander Coates Date of Birth 04/12/1952
    Officers Title Mr Nationality British
    Present Appointments 4 Function Director
    Appointment Date 20/12/2011
    Address 4th Floor, Skipton House 80 London Road, London, SE1 6LH

    Name Charles Arthur Howeson Date of Birth 27/11/1949
    Officers Title Commander Nationality British
    Present Appointments 26 Function Director
    Appointment Date 01/07/2012
    Address 4th Floor Skipton House 80 London Road, , London, SE1 6LH

    Name Simon Holden Date of Birth 11/04/1965
    Officers Title Mr Nationality British
    Present Appointments 3 Function Director
    Appointment Date 01/09/2012
    Address 4th Floor Skipton House 80 London Road, , London, SE1 6LH

    Name Pamela Vivienne Chapman Date of Birth 22/02/1957
    Officers Title Ms Nationality British
    Present Appointments 1 Function Director
    Appointment Date 19/09/2012
    Address 4th Floor Skipton House 80 London Road, , London, SE1 6LH

    Name Caroline Jane Rassell Date of Birth 05/03/1965
    Officers Title Mrs Nationality British
    Present Appointments 1 Function Director
    Appointment Date 19/09/2012
    Address 4th Floor Skipton House, 80 London Road, London, SE1 6LH

    Name Alan Mark Farmer Date of Birth 23/06/1961
    Officers Title Mr Nationality British
    Present Appointments 1 Function Director
    Appointment Date 01/10/2012
    Address 4th Floor Skipton House, 80 London Road, London, SE1 6LH

    Name Andrew Millward Date of Birth 23/03/1964
    Officers Title Mr Nationality British
    Present Appointments 1 Function Director
    Appointment Date 01/10/2012
    Address 4th Floor Skipton House, 80 London Road, London, SE1 6LH

  86. It indeed a very good read Craig.i hope to read more of your work soon. Peace out

  87. Thanks dissident X, what a load of function directorships, makes you wonder what sort of functions they are laying on fpr the NHS willing supporters in the House of lords.

  88. “Yet Another Disappearing DWP Document, Now The PIP Tender Goes Missing”

  89. Thanks Dissident X for getting that info, Weird that Company Check said that there was no such information??

    This is a search on the first name. Just like those Russian dolls, one within another and so on. I guess that all the others will reveal similar info.

    Plasma Resources is probably connected with the hiving off of the Blood Transfusion Service.

  90. That Imran Khan was a Taliban sympathiser was news to me. But I found a Guardian article confirming it:

    As far as I’m concerned Canada and everyone else is right to ban Taliban sympathisers from entering, since the Taliban are no good. So IK is lucky he got in at all.

  91. It’s not as simple as that Abe. Think of Khan in the same terms as Romney: a privileged and rather off-planet populist who will say anything to increase his electoral support. It’s a sad reflection on the total failure of US policy in the region that growing numbers of young Pakistanis see the Taleban as a righteous cause. Khan reflects this, also the very genuine Pakistani concern re. drone attacks. And yes, he would like an Islamic state. He’s seen how the alternative works.

    But as Suhayl says, the airport incident will raise his profile usefully back home, so no great damage was done.

  92. from the url, apparently originally headlined: “We need a rule book for drones”. don’t agree with everything written, but worth reading all:

    Washington Post Opinion: Kurt Volker: What the U.S. risks by relying on drones
    (Kurt Volker was U.S. ambassador to NATO from July 2008 to May 2009. He is executive director of the McCain Institute for International Leadership at Arizona State University and a senior adviser to the Atlantic Council of the United States)
    Third, our monopoly on drone warfare will not last. Others, from European allies to Russia, China and Iran, are acquiring and beginning to use drones for surveillance — eventually, they will use them for killing as well. What would we say if others used drones to take out their opponents — whether within their own territory or internationally? Imagine China killing Tibetan separatists that it deemed terrorists or Russia launching drone strikes on Chechens. What would we say? What rules would we urge them to abide by?
    Then there is the question of national identity: What do we want to be as a nation? A country with a permanent kill list? A country where people go to the office, launch a few kill shots and get home in time for dinner? A country that instructs workers in high-tech operations centers to kill human beings on the far side of the planet because some government agency determined that those individuals are terrorists? There is a “Brave New World” grotesqueness to this posture that should concern all Americans.
    This is not to say that the United States should never use drones for targeted attacks. We should. But we should also be creating standards and practices that are entirely defensible, even — and perhaps especially — if others were to adopt them…

  93. Abe Rene, your comments and the Guardian article are somewhat headline-grabbing, which might be expected from a Zionist-funded rag. He does not support the Taliban’s shooting of the young girl Malala who seeks education for women. He could not comment on that shooting, as the article reveals, because of fear for his supporters. The important facts are that the Taliban are fighting a Jihad, in their eyes, but what is even more important is that their ranks are growing. The question is why? The answer is the United States of America and their indiscriminate drone bombing of the region.

    I think I can guess where you’re coming from.

  94. Komodo
    I read Sufi propaganda against what you call an extreme and intolerant sect. The definition of sufism in my understanding is the worship of worship itself, instead of worship/practising of Allah’s commands from the Qur’an and Ahadith’. That means they feel almost holier than God himself, while simultaneously dis-respecting other people’s basic human rights.

    One of those commands from the Quran and Ahadith is for Muslims to be intolerant of certain practices and beliefs, but another is for us humans to be tolerant of eachother as humans, because most people follow what’s in front of their nose from culture and family without re-considering their belief.

    As I see it the intolerance is a political game in which Muslims pretend to be intolerant by being nasty to eachother and thereby gaining the trust and material benefits of Zionists and other bastards who have money and power and who hate Islam.

    I make no distinction between those who buy the life of this world in exchange for the life of the next, by making sects, Sufism, Salafism, Salawufism, Sufiyalafism, Bahai or Wahabi.
    The Saudi administration is the best qualified linguistically to be the custodian and interpreter of the Qur’an and it fulfils that role diligently.

    All the sects use the same Qur’an. They derive their differences from the propositions of non-Muslims. As I wrote above, Al-CIAda is used by the West as a false-flag task force and as a scapegoat and justification for breaking international law – almost in the same breath.

    The rhetoric against ‘Saudi Wahabism’ is entirely from the West and entirely unhelpful. The need to re-consider one’s beliefs applies to Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Insults hinder the process.

  95. I see that the math, defeating spam, is getting more complicated. Are we supposed to take home lessons in the future?

    thanks for the reference to Najibullah whose short rule was brutaly terminated by his castration, performed by those not sufficiently grateful for better schooling and health service. He was first of all an appointee of the Soviet Union (one does not have to be a marxist for such an appointment, total obedience usually suffices) and as a head of the KHAD, the Afghani secret service, had to occasionally perform something useful for his masters. It should be obvious to any normally thinking person that if you want to keep dissatisfied inhabitants happy then you have to throw them few bombons, like free schooling or health service. The communists in SU understood this game well, unlike the tories who think that financially-strangulated schools and castrated NHS will help them winning the next election.
    Finally, (I really hope that we have finished this topic) the concept of “Islamic communist state”, that you mentioned, seems unlikely for those not believing in chimeras.

  96. I’m allowed to be intolerant of Wahhabis, Guano. They’re intolerant of me. I’m not even a Muslim. From outside then, I see Islam as being the usual complex (found in old-established religions) of divergent versions claiming a common inspiration. In which different interpretations of the same writ and traditions occur. I grant you, Saudi Arabia is linguistically qualified to be the guardian of the holy places. I am not so sure its theology is as pure as its Arabic. That is not for me to judge, obviously, but for the ummah. Nevertheless, the readiness with which Sunni and Shi’a can be set at one anothers’ throats with the minimum of prompting from the US and Israel is worrying.
    Re. the Sufis, I am a great fan of Rumi, and the Platonic variants of Islam. Incidentally.

  97. …but don’t you regard Baha’i as a heresy? For it surely is.

  98. A-level Captcha for Karel:
    How many patriarchs were present at the Fourth Lateran Council of 1213-1215?

  99. Commesick Commesark

    29 Oct, 2012 - 1:23 pm

    Waddya expect, GlennBeck & Co, presstitutes !!

  100. Guest – The FSA… from Rowan’s blog

    “I too share your observation that there appears to be a lack of political will to curb the City,we have to remember that so many of the people who have made shed-loads of money in the City are very friendly with MPs and ministers, some of whom have dabbled in the corridors of Mammon themselves.

    There is an incestuous relationship between Threadneedle St and Parliament Square, and the politicos cannot help but admit that they are looking to the City to get us out of the mess they got us into. I do believe that Osborne et al are listening intently to the ‘chaps’ who are telling them that they mustn’t regulate them too heavily otherwise they might just go abroad.

    I don’t think the Government has the wit to be able to look closely at what is going on inside the FSA and ask itself the serious question, ‘…what kind of fuking people are they employing to do this specialised job…’ But then it was always the same with the Civil Service in so many areas of Whitehall, huge incompetence, vast number of jobs for the boys, keep your nose clean, be a safe pair of hands and don’t rock the boat and you will get your gold-plated pension, your putty medal and your seat in some cosy non-exec role.

    So the Government aren’t going to intervene at all.”

  101. English Knight

    29 Oct, 2012 - 1:35 pm

    USS Enterprise final homecoming ceremonies Nov 27th to Dec 1st – to be decommissioned over two years after 50 years of service. Need to commence 15 day return voyage from the PG any time now unless…..?!! Mohammed does not want to go to Pearl Harbour Mountain, instead the Pearl Harbour Mountain has to come to him, right under his very nose !! 20,000 sailors (and 90 ships) sacrificed enough reason for a nuclear strike. Conventional war with Iran (800k standing army + 13m reserves) is simply not workable.

  102. English Knight,

    The ‘power of intention’ froze that scenario – the world is getting wiser by absolute or intrinsic exchange of information.

  103. What do people working in the mainstream media think the purpose of their existence actually is?

    Initially, they think their purpose is to inform the public.
    Then they begin to realise that actually their job is to create and maintain an illusion.
    Then that they are serving the purposes of forces acting against the common good.
    Then that they have to choose between career success and their moral values.

    Therefore, the mainstream media is self-selecting for people who put their own interests before those of the majority.
    ….and anybody who has achieved a high position in the mainstream media is an untrustworthy whore.

  104. Enterprise is on its way. Stennis and Eisenhower now in/around PG. No-one’s pulling out, EK.

  105. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    29 Oct, 2012 - 3:28 pm

    Mark; “power of intention” Are you referencing Castaneda? If so, that would be ‘intent’.

    Who’s Left? Who’s Right? We have all been trammeled and stone-bruised to the Right of center, but remember; go far enough Right and you’re Left, again.

  106. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    29 Oct, 2012 - 3:33 pm

    “….and anybody who has achieved a high position in the mainstream media is an untrustworthy whore.”

    A Node;

    It’s like metal refining. All the shit rises to the top. Rarely, can good folks survive the ruthless gauntlet. Sociopaths have the advantage.

  107. Komodo,
    I suspect, none as it was held in Rome. But cannot exclude that some were not counted as they hid under the tables to play with 5 yr. old cardinals. Some probably enjoyed themselves in the inimitable Jimmy-Savile style, others may have prefered more innocuous activities.

    I suspect that all these antispam numbers are a part of a cabala plot to take over all our higher brain functions. Only lizard-like tectum will then remain intact to allow watching BBC. The gates of heaven will remain closed to whomever designed this act of sacrilege.

  108. Fatally for your theory, Karel, I don’t watch BBC. There were 71. Wait till the Captcha discovers *i*…

  109. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    29 Oct, 2012 - 4:46 pm

    Romney’s strategy in a nut-shell (borrowed from Glengarry Glen Ross)…

    ‘Always-Be-Lying” cuz second place just gets you a set of steak-knives.

  110. Test

  111. @ Mark Golding re your comment – “there appears to be a lack of political will to curb the City”.
    And for the same reason that we won’t get the true story as to why the Savile case was covered-up for 50 years, or why I am having so much difficulty getting basic justice – the high establishment does not consider curbing the City to be in its own interests and our politicians know to always toady to the interests of the establishment. Any politician who doesn’t toady to the high establishment’s view is likely to find himself targeted for smears, negative articles in the press, etc. In my view the basic problem is the absence of a free press.

  112. Wendy, at 11:06am, 29.10.12:

    What makes you suggest that I am “pro-American” and what makes you want to bracket me with Tarek Fatah (no offense to Mr Fatah, whom I do not know)? As I said, Pakistan is complex. Unless we try to understand that complexity, both historically and wrt now, we will not be able to understand events in the region. I was trying to explain some of that complexity. Imran Khan is not the same as the Taliban. But neither, I think, is he an agent of liberation for the people of Pakistan. I really do hope that Falcon (at 6:20am on 29.10.12) is correct and that I am wrong. I hope Imran is boxing clever. But I am skeptical. Imran Khan watched Obama’s 2008 campaign very carefully. Think of that.

  113. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    29 Oct, 2012 - 6:05 pm

    It’s difficult to discern human complexity when that complexity is stridently emotional. For that matter it’s hard to understand those from one’s own culture.

  114. @ Mark Golding : “there appears to be a lack of political will to curb the City”.

    The City appoints the politicians. The City controls the politicians. And the City removes the politicians if they go off message.
    The political will is the City’s will.

  115. Ben Franklin – No shamans involved there – I am talking loosely about cause and effect where the ’cause’ is usually misunderstood.

    Part of the ‘million dollar experiment’ referenced by Steve Pavlina that is trying to prove one way or the other whether the intention-manifestation model works. I happen to believe it does!

  116. O/T

    Savile ‘Was Barred’ From Children In Need

    (via Twitter)

  117. I am convinced Roderick Russell that media censorship is absolute and tangible in the West. Not quite a case of journalists having to submit their work to state censors before publication, no, much more subtle than that.

    In fact it is my own research project to unveil the contrivance that slams the truth in concrete for 70 years, that issues the ‘D-Notice’ to editors, that redacts the evidence, that for instance blocks Charles’ spidery rants, that weakens public inquiries – you get my drift.

    From your evidence Roderick the ‘establishment’ has a ligature on main stream publication and broadcasting and the intelligence services hold the final stamp of approval. That entity must be either destroyed or reformed – and we, the people must do it, large.

  118. Suhayl’s comments on Pakistan are very astute and well-founded. Its worth noting his highlighting the military’s role.

    Turning around Pakistan’s economy is going to be a mammoth task, magnified by endemic corruption , bureaucracy, petty politics and the inertia poor processes and systems. Alas, the issue is not how Pakistan might thrive again but will it survive in its present federation?

  119. I should add, i don’t know if any Pakistani politician is equal to the challenge, but from the present lot Imran may as well as have his turn as the others haven’t delivered a fig.

  120. Komodo.
    I appreciate that giant lizards cannot do all the tricks that dogs can do and you don’t do God. I am a Muslim and I have absolutely no idea or interest what Bahais or Wabbahais or Buddhists or Christian monks think or believe. Is Islam not enough for them?

    I have discovered from personal experience that most Muslim leaders have been deceived into thinking that politics, lying, spying on people in the privacy of their homes will help Islam to gain power and strength, while in fact it will only give them personally a false sense of empowerment from being oppressors rather than oppressed. For a change.

    That false confidence inspires other people with false confidence. Every group making whooppee about their own little soapbox and encouraging outside observers to come to the conclusion that Islam has not a shred of cohesion or coherence.

    In spite of all of that it does.

  121. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    29 Oct, 2012 - 10:04 pm


    There are 3 elements to being a Shaman: intent, emotional control and impeccable skills. Here we will look at intent.

    “Intent is not a thought, or an object, or a wish. Intent is what can make a man succeed when his thoughts tell him that he is defeated. It operates in spite of the warrior’s indulgence. Intent is what makes him invulnerable. Intent is what sends a shaman through a wall, through space, to infinity.” – Carlos Castaneda

    It sounds Shamanistic, to me. You might prefer the term, Existentialism.

  122. English Knight

    29 Oct, 2012 - 10:05 pm

    Mark Golding

    “Barksdale Nukes” may just have been thwarted by a whistle-blower, if only 911 had been as well. Now we have to grin & bear endless set up shoe, underwear, curry bombers (all without detonators) and subway ads, etc,etc for the next fifty years as they bury the WTC7 smoking gun. Akin to the Diary of Ann Frank,Hitlers diaries,etc,etc with which they have been burying the holohoax over the preceding sixty.

  123. Guano – you mentioned Baha’is in a list of Muslim groups. So I thought you were including them in Islam. So I just wondered what you thought.
    You “have absolutely no idea or interest what Bahais or Wabbahais or Buddhists or Christian monks think or believe. Is Islam not enough for them?”

    Evidently not. Or they would be Muslims. I am assuming of course that “Wabbahais” is your own jovial invention.

    So what are you saying? The fragmentation of Islam is deplorable? Agreed. If you could settle the issue of the twelfth Imam, you could probably spit the West out of the Middle East, and good luck to you. But that is a fundamental issue, not least to the enlightened and high-minded hierarchy in Saudi Arabia, guardians of the faith. If your politicians weren’t corrupt? As another discussion points out on this thread, it is the scum that rises, and no-one has yet found a way to get round that. If every Muslim isn’t a Muslim’s brother, kindly don’t blame me. I’m just a lizard. Unlike dogs, I don’t bark at the moon either.

    Here’s a Christian fundamentalist looking for a piece of the power. The problem isn’t just Islam’s.

    One for the connoisseur, I think.

  124. @Guano-
    Regarding your thoughts on Sufism. Let me start off by saying that I have lived Salafism a part of my life and I am currently a Sufi. Having gotten a chance to look at both schools of thought up close, I would at least like to dispel the rumor that Sufism is about worshipping the worship or swapping this life for the hereafter. Let’s just say that if you read scholars such as Ibn-Al-Arabi, Al-Ghazali (Algazel), and Rumi, you will agree that the issue of Divinity has been examined by them in a detail that is not observable in other schools of thought. To the second point, Sufis have been famous through out history for denouncing obsession with the hereafter. There is a reason saints from Rabia Basri (a female saint from 8th century) to Saadi and Shirazi are considered the teachers of love. What good is a love that can be distracted by the matter (be it this world or the hereafter)?

  125. No Ben, intent is a purpose and in the case of the shaman it is a commitment to self, to overcome one’s own perceived weaknesses either physical or mental. Intent can be carved in stone.

    Intention is temporal, an initial aim that assumes form, becoming a scheme that multiples and evolves as minds combine. That is the power of intention.

  126. Komodo,
    old dragon, cannot you ever sleep? You must be an addict of wikipedia, a dubious source, I have been warning everybody about. Do not ever try to lick at that poisoned apple again. Do you actually know what the word “patriarch” means? I suppose not. Your 71 patriarchs, that would be far too many even in our inflationary times, were in fact ordinary archbishops, most of them probably not older than 12. From my own sources it seems that there were just two patriarchs present at the council, the patriarch of Constantinople and Jerusalem. Unless you can show me that you have a diploma from the Pontificia Università Lateranense, stay away from any theological discourse with me.

  127. @ Mark Golding. It’s no secret that the UK press is very easily censored on stories relating to power-elites – and, of course it’s done voluntarily, or so some say; the media is just too happy to oblige. The famous UK publicist Max Clifford has said on many occasions that he could keep stories out of the press and I believe him. Indeed in September the Economist quoted Mr. Clifford in saying that it’s become even easier to censor the press than it used to be. Who are we to disagree with Mr. Clifford’s views on press censorship, particularly when our largest media baron Rupert Murdoch seems to agree with him when he tweets “no such thing as free press in UK”.
    As you know my view is that censorship is much worse today than it used to be and, indeed, that press freedoms are continuing to deteriorate further. And I think it is no longer just voluntary censorship. I would suggest that we are reaching a point where power-elites are using our intelligence/security apparatus as a secret police. It’s been reported that MI6 alone runs a section called IOPS to manipulate the press and public opinion, and former agents have said that there is “a spy in every newsroom”. Now manipulating public opinion is not the role for an honest intelligence/security service – It is the role of a secret police. No country can have a free press and a secret police since they are mutually exclusive.

  128. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    30 Oct, 2012 - 12:19 am

    The Greatest Generation speaks. (caution; very spicy language, heh)

  129. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    30 Oct, 2012 - 12:23 am


    I still think the Chopra ‘intention’ is a by-product of the Yaqui Shaman, but bow to your superior intent.

  130. English Knight,

    Yes treason indeed yet we are legion and many minds will seduce lies that are surely tenuous and intangible. No, we will not forget or forgive.

    Expect us…

  131. Komodo
    Bahai is nothing to do with Islam. Wahabism is an pejorative term for those who follow the Gospel and Qur’an commandments that following the instructions of the prophet of your time peace be upon them all = worshipping God. assalamu ‘alaykum Falcon. I disagree completely with you about Sufism.

    Sufis ignore the heavy responsibilities placed on Muslims in their behaviour towards others and float on a cloud of mysticism.

    Water is good, but not in the subways of Manhattan. Devotion is good, but not if it pushes out justice. I was recently employed by a man whose background was Sufism and whose present leanings are Salafist. To the Sufi sin of ignoring his own injustice to others while considering himself to be extremely pious, he then added the Salafi sin of pride that Allah had educated him more than the Sufis who brought him up.

    On topic: Imran Kahn is a politician. Politics is about deceit. His bad treatment in the US is a sure sign that the US is funding and supporting him. Some Salafists believe that the education they have received in the instructions of the prophet peace be upon him is a solid castle from which they can safely continue to engage and do business with the Zionist powers.

    No. no no no. The purpose of education in the instructions of Islam is not give you a respectable castle from which to continue the sin of seeking the world of this life from the enemies of Islam. It is to follow the instructions on justice to others in practice and achieve paradise.

    That means no politics with the enemies of Islam, no spying and no lying except in the context of the battlefield or complimenting your wife.

  132. Komodo/Falcon
    As in the parable of the Sower Gospels Matthew 13.
    “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

  133. Greenmachine

    30 Oct, 2012 - 7:24 am

    Great work Craig. Whatever one thinks of IK, and I personally see him as pretty moderate and well intentioned, it is Craig’s point about the sheer hypocrisy and vindictiveness of his targeting which is crucial. The blatant use and overt support of drone attacks marks a shift in US military strategy in Afghan-Pakistan area which no-one forsaw as the election of Obama cast it’s rosy glow! It is an abhorrent and counter-productive military strategy. Just watching the scene in the movie ‘Syriana’ where the joystick jockey in Nevada takes out a convoy in the ME made my skin crawl! How many potential extremists have been lured into becoming ACTIVE extremists by these attacks and their ‘collateral damage’? Can you blame them? I am well aware of the reason behind it’s popularity in Washington (no body bags but plenty of kills – remember the ghosts of Vietnam!. The Taliban are no longer the entity brought to life by Mullah Omar back on the road to Kandahar in the nineties – they include countless different factions and individuals who have a myriad of motives. Gulbuddin Hekmatyar is a central figure in the support of their work in Afghanistan. He was a favoured son of the CIA back in the 80’s as a mujahadeen chief, then a warlord with power and influence at the centre of the first post-soviet government. He and his family are again at the centre of ‘insurgency’ as they lurk in the dark world outaide Karzais corrupt administration with the drug cartels and links to fellow extremists over the border. A vicious and complex area of the world which should have the full light of the MSM shone upon it…….not a chance! That was Craig’s plea methinks.

  134. Deputy US Ambassador to Pakistan, Richard Hoagland tweeted about the incident saying, “Nothing to do with drones — he brought it up.”

  135. Villager at 7:11pm, thanks.

    Ben Franklin, at 6:05pm, 29.10.12.

    I was referring to political complexity. But if I were asked to give a simple distillation wrt Pakistan, it would be this: Pakistan has always been owned and oppressed by the feudal-military class. The military are in cahoots with Saudi-backed Islamists, as a mechanism of social and geostrategic control. Unless all of that changes, unless feudalism and military rule definitively go, and unless Saudi Arabian/’Gulf’ money and influence/Islamist leaders, financiers and preachers have all their assets appropriated and/or are barred and expelled, nothing will change, except for the worse. In this context, NATO is just one more problem, they can never be part of any solution. One is aware of the history vis a vis the US/UK role in the cultivation of Islamist paramilitaries (surely, the deadliest ‘poppies’ of all) during the 1980s and so on, but I’m really just concentrating here on the ‘now’.

    One does not have to be a communist to understand this and to enjoy the music of politically-inspired ‘Laal’ (‘Red’), led by the excellent Taimur Rehman:

  136. The US media’s hysteria on the effect of ‘Sandy’ demonstrates that Americans do not like mayhem being heaped upon their country even when it is caused by a natural phenomenon. This is in stark comparison to their disregard of the mayhem that they have heaped abroad upon Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria in recent times and possibly upon Iran in the future.

    Here is a interesting conversation.

    Resurrecting the Anti-war Movement
    Interview with Gareth Porter

  137. Karel, lol. I won’t follow up the 71 patriarchs. Struck me as being something of an overestimate at the time, but I happily concede I know s.f.a about the Lateran Councils. Or less. Hence Wiki.

    Guano, thanks for your responses. So you’re saying Wahhabi Saudi is bad but there’s nothing much wrong with Wahhabis in general? Sorry to be dense, but I think you need to spell it out. I’m trying to say that people will inevitably follow different sets of rules, and that this needs to be tolerated in the context of a greater unity. Agree? Disagree?

    The kind of Sufi you describe is not a Sufi. I know enough about it to be able to say that definitively. Just as Christianity has obscured its own original purpose – awareness of the divine – behind the personality cult of Jesus (pbuh) and lost it in later power struggles; at risk of being offensive, I suggest that Islam has concentrated on the prophet (pbuh) and the ritual rather than the message. And that real Sufis, as opposed to the self-indulgent frauds and hippies often claiming the title, try to return to the central issue, which is a greater awareness of God.

  138. PS
    ‘The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], “We make no distinction between any of His messengers.” And they say, “We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination’ (Surah al-Baqara – 2:285)

  139. Further, the affidavit we witness is in itself an authoritarian snap-shot of a rapidly degenerate American establishment, an obscenity that violates human justice, fairness, goodness and respect for life itself.

    We must at all cost prevent this corruption from further tainting our own legal system.

  140. Suhayl
    Who could disagree with your summary of the problem? What I have realised from this last decade of UKUSIS intervention is that for colonialism to succeed, someone has to sell their own country. In the case of Afghanistan whether they were conned by Saudi or Zionists or both working together, Allahu a’alam/ God knows.

  141. On a lighter note – or in a different dimenschion –

    Must have missed the reports of her SOH bypass.

  142. Komodo
    Salafism is like a new city that builds a three lane motorway bridge twenty years before building the road. The intercity road is not much better than a dirt track full of potholes. They think becasue they can see the way forward everybody else can, Sufis Shi’a Atheists Christians. You cannot pressurise people to follow your idea by force. You have to use reason and diplomacy first and that requires more patience than most humans possess.

    As to Sufism, only a part of the awareness of God is remembrance of His existence. The other part is the remebrance of His rules which the Sufis conveniently forget while they are contemplating the Divine. In my opinion. Thanks for the discussion.

  143. And thank you. Does Salafism permit us to agree to disagree?

  144. A little nearer topic – I see the US immigration people who made Khan miss his flight in Canada (wtf were they doing there? They don’t have jurisdiction, surely) now deny that the purpose of their enquiry was Khan’s feelings on drones. They state that he, not they, brought the topic up: Deputy US Ambassador to Pakistan, Richard Hoagland tweeted about the incident saying, “Nothing to do with drones — he brought it up.” A US official on the condition of anonymity added that the agency had no mandate or jurisdiction to question anyone on their views about the drones..
    More here:

    Curiouser and curiouser.

  145. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    30 Oct, 2012 - 1:49 pm

  146. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    30 Oct, 2012 - 1:57 pm


    “but I’m really just concentrating here on the ‘now’.”

    Thanks for the clarification. Like the Native Americans and Aborigines of Australia, whose cultures existed fairly well without the Authoritarians, Paks and Afghani people didn’t need the ‘improvements’ Western culture seeks to impose.

  147. Good one, Ben…
    Why is the government so afraid of Pakistanis explaining to Americans what the drone attacks look like from a Pakistani perspective?

    Wouldn’t want to alienate the voters, would we? Imagine if this lot got radicalised –

    The (June 2012, Pew Research) report puts the figure of Pakistanis who are legal residents of the US at 120,000, with an additional 50,000 being eligible to naturalise…..The survey signified that Asian-Americans are more likely to support an activist government rather than republicans. Half are democrats or lean democrats whereas on 28 per cent are GOP or lean GOP.

    The survey also proclaimed that President Barrack Obama is supported more by Asian-Americans than other Americans as 54 per cent of them believe that he is doing his job well.

    Fifty-five per cent of the Asian-Americans prefer big governments that ensure provision of services.

    Though for those who have not yet downloaded my irony app, I should confirm that IMO it would be simpler not to use drones against Pakistanis/anyone.

  148. Nowt so stupid as folk

    30 Oct, 2012 - 3:25 pm

    Imran Khan, multi-millionaire brother-in-law of Zac Goldsmith MP – soon to be married into the Rothschild banking cartel.

    Are you suggesting that he is some sort of ‘peoples champion’?

  149. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    30 Oct, 2012 - 3:25 pm

    “Wouldn’t want to alienate the voters, would we?”

    I love rhetorical questions. They are much like proper reportage. They allow the reader to think for himself and don’t insult our intelligence. We fill in the conclusion(s)

    But Obama is more worried about the electorate, as a whole. I keep getting pushback from so-called liberals who are concerned about any breach in the collective. Quite frankly, even after Obama is re-elected, there will be the same pushback for the lame duck. But it will be about an obstructionist Congress.

    I take some solace in the fact that even our greatest President, Lincoln, kept Habeus Corpus in stasis during the War, and delayed publishing Emancipation Proclamation until after his re-election to avoid pissing off the voters in Border States. Obama is no Lincoln, however.

  150. Khan and Jemima divorced. As to Zac marrying a rather tasty Rothschild girl…wouldn’t you? Still and all, whether Khan is a man of the people or not (I tend to agree – he isn’t) is not the point of this story. Is it? (Thx, Ben)

  151. I think it is perfectly acceptable for Muslims to be routinely harassed whilst traveling. It’s the only way to stop another 911, just ask the NYPD.

    They have been actively harassing Muslims in the big apple for over 10 years and no further 911’s have occurred. And anyone who says US policy is dictated to by Israel and the Jewish mafia that controls the US congress is a lying anti-Semite.

    Documents obtained by The Associated Press reveal that for the past few years, the New York Police Department has been engaged in the weekly surveillance of American Muslim college group

    ‘past few years’ means since Bloomberg took over.

  152. More news re Greek corporate media…two tv presenters removed after mentioning on air that minister threatened to sue foreign newspapers that report police violence.

  153. A con. ‘Freedom’ for the hens but none for the Lithuanian slave workers.

    Workers who collected Freedom Food chickens ‘were trafficked and beaten’

    Gangmasters’ licence is revoked and two people are arrested after claims of debt bondage, poor conditions and violence

    ‘Late on Monday a gangmaster company which provided teams of migrant workers to dozens of large chicken farms in a chain that supplies premium free range eggs to McDonald’s, Tesco, Asda and M&S, “Woodland” eggs to Sainsbury’s, and the Freedom Food and Happy Eggs brands to leading retailers had its licence revoked with immediate effect by the Gangmaster Licensing Authority (GLA).’

    ‘The gangmaster business supplied workers to Noble Foods, one of the UK’s largest processors of eggs and chickens. Noble is currently promoting its happy eggs on primetime television with an advert that shows its hens leaping for joy to the Olympian soundtrack of Chariots of Fire.’ !

  154. @Nowt so stupid as folk
    30 Oct, 2012 – 3:25 pm
    ‘Imran Khan, multi-millionaire brother-in-law of Zac Goldsmith MP – soon to be married into the Rothschild banking cartel.’

    This reads as if Imran Khan is engaged to a Rothschild. Zac Goldsmith who is his ex brother-in-law married a Kate Rothschild. She left Goldsmith for an American rapper.

  155. Thanks Mary – that finalised a family decision to keep a few chickens in the yard.

  156. Lincoln was reelected in November 1864. He issued the preliminary version of the Emancipation Proclamation on Sept. 27, 1862, days after the Union victory at the Battle of Antietam. (The final version was issued on Jan. 1,1863.)

  157. doug scorgie

    30 Oct, 2012 - 7:28 pm
    30 Oct, 2012 – 6:01 pm
    “I think it is perfectly acceptable for Muslims to be routinely harassed whilst traveling. It’s the only way to stop another 911, just ask the NYPD.
    “They have been actively harassing Muslims in the big apple for over 10 years and no further 911′s have occurred.”

    Good logic!

    A man throwing mouse droppings in Trafalgar Square was asked why he was doing that
    “Because it keeps elephants away.”
    “But there are no elephants around here!”
    “Well that shows you it works!”
    (Same logic)!

  158. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    30 Oct, 2012 - 7:37 pm

    Lysias; Poorly worded, was my comment…..

    “Lincoln issued the Proclamation under his authority as “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy” under Article II, section 2 of the United States Constitution.[3] As such, he claimed to have the martial power to suspend civil law in those states which were in rebellion. He did not have Commander-in-Chief authority over the four slave-holding states that had not declared a secession: Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware, and so those states were not named in the Proclamation. The Emancipation Proclamation was never challenged in court.”

    The Proclamation was not published to the above ‘Border’ states as ,ostensibly, he held no power over them, and re-election was highly doubtful for the Republican.

  159. English Knight

    30 Oct, 2012 - 7:53 pm

    Zen Koan – If DHS is stocked up on a billion hollow point bullets should Adam Werritty stock up on KY Jelly by Nov 6th ?

  160. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    30 Oct, 2012 - 7:54 pm

    There was another motivation which served the Union well.

    “The Emancipation Proclamation also made it possible for African Americans to serve in the military and launched a wave of enlistments. Lincoln received correspondence expressing both support for and concern about the policy, such as letters from The Rev. Edmund Kelly and General John A. Dix. The policy was put to the test by the 54th Massachusetts, an African-American regiment commanded by Colonel Robert Gould Shaw, which demonstrated valor in the ill-fated attack on Fort Wagner in July, 1863. Colonel Shaw’s father wrote to Lincoln shortly after the battle asking for protection of the officers and men of African-American regiments. General Ulysses S. Grant welcomed the enlistment of African-American troops and wrote Lincoln in August 23, 1863:”

    Furthermore…(same link)

    “In May of the following year, Union General David Hunter issued a similar proclamation freeing slaves in Florida, Georgia and South Carolina. Again, Lincoln was forced to issue a public statement revoking the proclamation. He concluded his statement, however, by urging the slave-holding border states of Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri to “‘adopt a gradual abolishment of slavery,'” as encouraged by Congress’s Joint Resolution of March 1862:

    “You can not if you would, be blind to the signs of the times — I beg of you a calm and enlarged consideration of them, ranging, if it may be, far above personal and partizan politics — This proposal makes common cause for a common object, casting no reproach upon any — It acts not the pharisee. The change it contemplates would come gently as the dews of heaven, not rending or wrecking anything — Will you not embrace it? So much good has not been done, by one effort, in all past time, as, in the providence of God, it is now your high previlege to do — May the vast future not have to lament that you have neglected it.”

  161. Good reading recently – not sure if im missing some of the chaos.

    About Freedom foods – It is a worthwhile animal welfare certification from the RSPCA; in my experience i get markedly better smelling and tasting eggs and chickens from it than with standard free range, which can be iffy, and for about the same price. (imho Raw chicken needn’t stink like most standard ones usually do)
    I think when you have good welfare standards for livestock, it improves workers experience and should only be a benefit in improving… humans welfare. It is not beyond possibility that the presence of scrutiny for the chickens welfare in this case, actually assisted the plight of the abused workers.
    But it is too easy to spin this news against the worth of extra animal welfare standards, so i expect it will be distributed further than a story about the successful prosecution of gangmasters involved in factory or free-range production.
    It contains the type of false dichotomy which our media craves and celebrates to provide the controversy and distraction it needs to maintain its dysfunctional political and economic reporting.

  162. doug scorgie

    30 Oct, 2012 - 9:59 pm

  163. Another O/T! You’ll have to set up a forum with categories, Craig.

    How many times per year do hurricances kill dozens of people, at the very least, in poor countries? How much coverage are those events given in the UK’s mainstream media?

    I guess John Pilger is right: the poor are unpeople.

  164. Yes, Thatcrab. Often walk past a nearby free range outfit (local farmer) and the hens in the field look happy and healthy. Well worth the slightly higher price IMO. But as you say…as if battery operators didn’t love cheap labour as well…
    Mary – Surprised you didn’t read two posts beyond NowtSo’s comment.

    Revisiting Imran Khan, may I expand on Mohammed Zudhi Jasser, who seems to have been copied in on AILC’s letter to Hilary Clinton? {}

    Apparently generally regarded by US Muslim organisations as something of an Uncle Tom –
    …Daniel Pipes praised Jasser as truly moderate and as someone whose activities demonstrate the falsehood of “phony moderates.” (

    BUT I can’t see much wrong with AILC’s statement of principles, which still puts it at odds with mainstream neocon thinking.:

    What we stand for:

    1. A firm conviction that the primary message and purpose of Islam is to share God’s infinite love and compassion with all creatures. Any actions committed in the name of our faith that obviously contradict or obstruct this primary message and purpose arise from a deluded—and often, highly politicized—interpretation of Islam.

    2. Definition of a Muslim as anyone who identifies him or herself as a Muslim. Period.

    3. Equality before the law of every human being, regardless of race, gender and/or religion.

    4. Separation of state and religion, and freedom of thought, expression and conscience, in accordance with the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Articles 18 and 19 of the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    5. Profound respect for Islamic scholarship, combined with a firm belief that no one claiming to be a scholar has the right to compel others to live according to his interpretation of Islam, and/or his legal dictates. We believe that every Muslim is equally entitled to his or her opinion concerning the religion of Islam, and to practice his or her faith in an environment free of intimidation, reprisal or violence.

    6. We recognize the importance of religious values in encouraging people to live an honorable life of service to God and humanity, but firmly reject the Islamist claim that there is a theological requirement for Muslims to establish a so-called “Islamic” state and/or caliphate, or to formalize shari‘ah as positive law, governing the lives of Muslims.

    And, sadly, at odds with Guano…

  165. American Islamic Leadership Coalition!

    Member Manda Zand Ervin appears to suffer from selective amnesia. She says and I quote:

    “The media touted Khomeini as the Second Coming, and lauded him as a holy and righteous man who was committed to upholding humanity and delivering democracy to the people of Iran.

    While Khomeini was shunning secularism, his secular-minded supporters fabricated a potpourri of charges against the Shah to bolster their new messiah.

    Now however, thirty-odd years down the line and with casualties that are beginning to run in the millions, the results are both international terrorism; a very real nuclear threat that may be hard to stop; absolute oppression and screaming poverty in Iran, and much more.

    Who are the perpetrators? The very people who were in the Shah’s prison. The ones who have fled Iran are now on the terrorist list of the Department of State.”

    Her leaking synapses fail to remember the brutality of the CIA installed monarch, Mohammad Reza Shah’s brutal MOSSAD trained intelligence service torturing and executing opponents of the Pahlavi regime. Documented evidence reveal nail extractions, electrical shocks with cattle prods into the rectum, sitting on red hot grills, acid dripped into nostrils, water-boarding and mock executions using an electric chair.

    I have spoken to mature Iranian refugees who in 1975 fled Iran for the UK and Iranian naval officers in training who shuddered at the barbarism of the immoral Savak secret service.

    The AILC supports the Syrian Democratic Coalition, supports the torture and murder of Syrian families by foreign insurgents who brush off the outstretched hands of reconciliation, compromise and harmony.

    That is the mendacity of the so called ‘moderate’ American Islamic Follower Leadership Coalition.

  166. Komodo
    ‘BUT I can’t see much wrong with AILC’s statement of principles, which still puts it at odds with mainstream neocon thinking.':

    AILC writes a blank cheque for anyone to claim Islam is anything.
    As I said before, unable to lick your own balls, you have to get another lizard to lick them for you. Job done.

    I am trying not to self-combust at the AILC statement of principles. Please listen carefully. We don’t like superpowers writing their own rules overriding international conventions do we? Generally considered to be a bad thing. Nor do Muslims like other people in the name of Islam overriding the basic principles of their religion.

    The first principle of Islam is that God does not share his power with anyone or anything. But the Christians and Shi’a and Jews and Hindus etc etc start by washing the watercolour paper with the lightest tint of shirk/partnership. God used the prophets to do miracles for Him. After that you can deduce that the prophets slightly delegated the rituals of the religion to imams, and from that can deduce that if the CIA appointed Ayatollah is in power, then that power was delegated to him because Allah did not need it. The Divine Right of kings.

    The Divine right of kings is one of those false dichotomies mentioned above by Thatcrab in the context of chickens’/workers’ welfare viz: Do we have to obey an unjust ruler? Islam says No, if you know they are unjust then there is no listening and no obeying.

    As Mark points out above, it is difficult to see the difference between a coup d’etat by the CIA to establish the Ayatollah and the present CIA eviction of Bashar Assad from Syria by its mercenaries from Al-Qaida. But there is a difference: The Iranian Shi’a believe in the delegation of Divine power to imams and saints, but the Saudi/Zionist-backed Al-Qaida do not. Bashar Assad believes in it, which is why he is stupid enough to try and remain in power.

    The other thing about the current struggle in Syria is that in spite of their shirk/belief in the delegation of Divine power to other than Allah, the Jews and the Christians and Shi’a recognise that the time is approaching for the return of Jesus pbuh in Damascus according to Muslim prophecy, and they do not want to be on the wrong side of what they perceive as Jesus’ superior-to-theirs delegated power, peace be upon him.

    Syrian Sunnis will recognise the righteousness of the removal of Shi’a power from their true understanding of Islam, and the Syrian Shia will understand the imperative of the removal of Shi’a power from their wrong understanding of Islam. Sometimes submission to Allah becomes inevitable for human beings willy-nilly. The best chance the Jews have got in the context of the csecond coming of Jesus pbuh as a Muslim, is to back the Saudi ‘ulama/scholars.

  167. A Simple Jew

    31 Oct, 2012 - 3:42 am

    Deleted again. I have not defamed Jews. I have not denied the extermination of Jews by Nazis.

    I have posted FACTS. The very same facts that can be found in a multitude of history books. These facts don’t chime with Zionist thinking, nor yours it seems.

    It comes to something when a reference to a site run by Jews, for Jews is deleted for being ‘anti-Semitic’.

    Do you not have any cognitive dissonance as you sit there deleting my posts, or do you just keep muttering “rubbish” and “anti-Semite”?

    The problems in this world will not be resolved until people replace lies and propaganda with truth and insight, and certainly not while people prefer sticking their heads up their arse because they prefer the view.

  168. Sunni comeuppance

    31 Oct, 2012 - 8:01 am

    Gentle nudge to Guano – where is the blood of Abubakr, Usman, Umar today in the Hejaz? QED. BTW- The 73 faith divisions in Islam hadith, if genuine, means in Guano we have a shrieking shirker who says his beard is longer than Muhammeds – by insisting on the one sunni faith vs 73 of the prophets hadith,he knows better than what the Prophet of Islam said?!! The cure for this salafist madness phase is to balance out with a Western education (“whom God loves the MOST, He gives them knowledge”-and the West did have knowledge enough for the very Christian Colin Powell to to keep the saudi/wahhabi camel jockeys in power when threatened by the secular devil Saddam). Hope this helps !

  169. “Sunni comeuppance”/”English Knight”/”Commesick Commesark” – please stick to one handle, especially in one thread. It is more difficult to have an ongoing conversation if you appear to be several people.

    Mike, the discussion has usually meandered a bit O/T by this stage!

    A Simple Jew, I am not sure debate will be furthered by shouting – a couple of other people have agreed with your position with great civility, on another thread.

  170. Guano: As with most True Believers ™, you are being highly selective with the scriptural justification for your outlook. I’m not going to risk offending you or anyone else by quoting the Q’ran at you (for one thing I’m no more a student of the Q’ran than you are of the New Testament, for another, this is not a theological blog), but I note you didn’t comment on my earlier quotation.
    And I’m pretty sure I could support any theocentric view or policy I liked from the Q’ran. I can do it from the Bible. I could probably do it from Alice in Wonderland, given a talent for finding hidden meanings in essentially random texts…

    I’ll quote you instead:
    Syrian Sunnis will recognise the righteousness of the removal of Shi’a power from their true understanding of Islam
    TRUE, at least for the Salafists/Wahhabis. Down with the heretics! Down with Persian poets!

    ..and the Syrian Shia will understand the imperative of the removal of Shi’a power from their wrong understanding of Islam.
    UNTRUE. Human nature, I’m afraid. I think you need to work on your understanding of practical politics. See, the Shi’a think they have the right understanding of Islam.

    And by maintaining and encouraging the ancient division in their ranks, fundamentalist Muslims of all persuasions are simply playing into the Western/ Israeli agenda at present. You’re pwned, in other words.

    Sunni Comeuppance: you’re as bad as he is!

    And the CIA didn’t establish the Ayatollah.

  171. Thanks Jon. Hadn’t twigged re the Sunni one. Still, it stimulates debate.

  172. Wonga’d

    Ministers for hire for £1,250: Pay-day loan firm Wonga pays to bend ……/Ministers-hire-1-250-Pay-day-loan-firm-Wo…
    17 Oct 2012 – Pay day loan firm Wonga was among the companies who paid to meet ministers at the Tory party conference. According to one witness, eight …

    David Cameron’s senior adviser leaves to lobby for Wonga
    The Prime Minister’s adviser on digital strategy, Jonathan Luff, is leaving Downing Street to become a a lobbyist for Wonga, the controversial payday lender.

  173. A Simple Jew

    31 Oct, 2012 - 8:53 am

    “I am not sure debate will be furthered by shouting – a couple of other people have agreed with your position with great civility, on another thread.”

    I see, so I’m shouting now am I (one word used for EMPHASIS)? And, are you inferring that I have not been civil? I think you will find it is Craig who has been uncivil by citing my previous posts as ‘rubbish’ when they are well accepted historical FACTS.

    Are you going to be chiming in with snide remarks on every comment in future?

  174. A Simple Jew

    31 Oct, 2012 - 9:03 am

    A prime example for those that don’t believe people are ostracised in the West for holding a point of view that they are not supposed to, and why the average person in the West never hears more than one point of view on any subject, which in turn explains why people are not only dumb but willingly jump to the defence of blatant lies because thats all they know.

  175. In the same context as the Wonga link –

    ‘At the other end of the spectrum though, things are going swimmingly. The richest 1,000 people in Britain have seen their wealth increase by £155bn since the crisis began – more than enough to pay off the whole government deficit of £119bn at a stroke. Anyone earning over £1m a year can look forward to a £42,000 tax cut in the spring, while firms have been rewarded with a 2% cut in corporation tax to 24%.’


  176. Playing the victim card, ASJ? Now where have I seen that before?

  177. Farid Ghadry (see Craig’s topic, above):

    From which we deduce that he’s a bit of a bags. Even for a US defence contractor. Also that he’s associated with Nina Rosenwald (you’ve guessed?) who is just a little to the right of Timur Leng.

    Probably a large number of AILC members subscribe innocently to its entirely reasonable (calculatedly reasonable?) line. But the heavy involvement of ex-Syrian neocons at the top tells its own story.

  178. I always wondered what had happened to the OSP, which operated as a direct channel between Israel and US hardliners prior to the invasion of Iraq. Here it is again. No word of Douglas Feith, but it probably still lets Israeli mil-int people in without passes…

  179. A Simple Jew – I’ll “chime in” as often as I like. But perhaps I should begin to recognise that when you imply that your interlocutors “prefer sticking their heads up their arse”, you mean it as a warm compliment. Right?

    I’ve seen a couple of your comments, and I am not sure why you are here. Since you are going to the effort of posting, presumably you want people to understand your view? You turned up in the presidential debates thread (in which Craig mentioned with sadness that both candidates fought to be seen as the stronger Israeli ally) and you wanted to discuss the topic of Jewish collaboration with the Holocaust.

    OK, fine. But what’s the wider point you are making, in connection with the topics we’re discussing? Are you posting in support for Jewishness, or as a critic of Israel? And do tell us about yourself if you wish – openness works very well here.

  180. Thank-you for the links Komodo. The Jacobson’s organs are climaxing regardless of brass tacks and doctrine obscured by fecal material.

  181. Things that make you go hmmmm.

    “100% of profits CAN go to Wikileaks..” Eh, Viv? Hmmmm.
    “Disgraced Wikileaks founder…” Eh, MSN? Hmmmm.

  182. Lol @ Mark. Glad it’s useful, welcome to the feast.

  183. AILC has now blocked my static IP. LOL.

  184. Pre -2004, Danny Pipestein didn’t like another of the AILC members, Kamal Nawash. Despite Nawash being a Republican.

    But he seems to be making the right noises now. Couldn’t have had anything to do to losing the 2003 Virginia senatorial election due to flak from Pipestein, obviously.

  185. :)

  186. Also on the AILC bus is Tawfik Hamid.

    Tawfik’s bumbling and inconsistent story in which at times he is a Muslim reformer, at other times a Muslim only by birth, then a Christian and a Jew or his declarations that most of his coreligionists are passive terrorists, his sharing the stage with white supremacists and well known Islamophobes and becoming a member of their advisory council is hard to follow let alone comprehend. It is contradictory and as we see quite lucrative — he fits in perfectly as Shemp to the Larry, Curly and Mo of Islamophobia.

    Has appeared with Tony Blair:

    Say no more.

  187. Our dodgy ex PM/war criminal is even more dodgy when it comes to using young people as interns. The exploiter’s annual income is estimated to be £20m.

    Tony Blair’s office could face investigation over use of unpaid interns

    Evidence of possible minimum wage infractions, gathered by Graduate Fog website, passed to HM Revenue and Customs

  188. CORRECTION. The Iran-Syria Operations Group was shut down in 2007. Partly because it had outsourced its operations to Bearing Point (“the number two war profiteer in 2004″ as Ralph Nader described it: it was supernaturally fortunate with USAID contracts) However its influence lives on, as does Liz Cheney.

  189. Someone mentioned Jack Straw earlier.

    Jack Straw said in 2005:
    “[Unless] we all start to believe in conspiracy theories and that the officials are lying, that I am lying, that behind this there is some kind of secret state which is in league with some dark forces in the United States… there simply is [no] truth in the claims that the United Kingdom had been involved in rendition”.

    More here….


  190. Bert, wash your mouth out, do you really have to make us wretch?….;)

    @ Komodo, have you heard the massive activities above us, one pair after the other, since early morning, flying attack loops.

    Thanks for Seumas article, Mary, it has to be said and the public is waking up slowly to this eye washing.

    The rich are getting richer, thanks to the coalitions privatisation charter.

    What about today’s kite flying, tabloid comments about wind power and the resulting crescendo of bigoted siren noises all round? How predictable, but sadly it did not mean what it said, there will be more onshore wind power good, even better if the people own it.

  191. OT, more about “Freedom food” the RSPCA designed food welfare standard -for chickens it doesn’t stipulate they must have access to outdoors as “free range” does, as their animal psychologists believe the chickens dont appreciate it -primarily. Where chickens do have access to an outdoor range, RSPCA determines that it is well configured and not a stressful feature.

    imo, Some years ago before “free range” was standardised it implied various, but mostly the better kinds of farming conditions available, but the standardisation drew the bar for conditions lower than what free range at first implied/included. So the standard is much better than caged hens but is not the premium welfare and quality claim which it was loosely some years ago.

    Organic is free range and also requires organic feed, which besides demanding extra agricultural considerations, is guaranteed to have lower risk of pesticide contamination, but it is more expensive than non-organic feed. iirc an affordable organic feed can be of a lesser quality mix of grains (less some pesticides) than non-organic.

    I go by this information, and finally smell and taste, which healthy poultry should express and i find ‘freedom food’ poultry does well, perhaps the best at that measure.

    There is the case where people can be overimpressed by their animal welfare concerns while neglecting human welfare problems around them, and passions can produce seemingly absurd efforts for one without the other. But it is absurd to wage these considerations against each other too.

    ‘Five Freedoms’ as defined by FAWC (hence the name ‘Freedom Food’

    Freedom from hunger and thirst
    by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour.

    Freedom from discomfort by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.

    Freedom from pain, injury or disease
    by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.

    Freedom to express normal behaviour
    by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal’s own kind.

    Freedom from fear and distress
    by ensuring conditions and care which avoid mental suffering.

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