Ludicrous Claims Department

by craig on April 24, 2013 11:09 am in Uncategorized

Yet another example of the appalling standards of modern journalism from the Guardian, with journalists not thinking about what they write, and of the fakery of the industry of “analysts” that leech off the “War on Terror”.

Zhukov has analysed some 30,000 violent attacks in the Caucusus region and found that in most cases there is substantial chatter between instigators followed by a claim of responsibility for the incident

Really? 30,000 attacks analysed, including researching the internet traffic of the perpetrators and their public statements?

That is rather a lot of work. Firstly you have to identify the attack and identify the perpetrator. Then you have to access their internet use and go through it looking for relevant reading, comments or relevant messages.

Let us presume you have such good access to the security services that they do all of that for you, and serve up the results to you on a plate, and that you trust their diligence, honesty and analytical ability sufficiently to work just from what you were given. If you were being served up ready to analyse dossiers of relevant internet traffic of perpetrators of attacks, how many such dossiers could you in any meaningful way analyse in a working day to form a view on the individual? Perhaps four?

Now let us presume four weeks holiday a year and five working days a week. It would take you 33 years of solid work, doing nothing else in your professional life, to analyse thirty thousand cases. That is to make the startling assumption that there is meaningful material on as many as thirty thousand cases to analyse, and you have access to it.

30,000 attacks analysed? Bullshit. Pure bullshit.

To compound which the Guardian also brings us that silk suited leech on public funds, Ed Husain of the discredited Quilliam Foundation. What passes for mainstream media analysis on security issues is risible.

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  1. Uzbek in the UK

    24 Apr, 2013 - 11:23 am

    Well Mr Murray, the depth of analysis is not mentioned. It must have been one of those Russian type of analysis where researchers do not bother to do into sufficient depth and in most cases present opinionated findings in best cases slightly supported by the data.

    By the way talking about Russian research community there have been many scandalous cases recently where number of high profile Russian government ministers were awarded Doctorate for plagiarised dissertations.

  2. Before wading into the Guardian it might’ve been advisable to check the original peer-reviewed paper:-

    Academics who prepare these reports never work alone, there’s invariably a number of uncredited helpers in the background doing the donkey work.

  3. Ludicrous? – you ain’t seen nuttin.

    ‘B’ at Moon of Alabama highlights a video purportedly showing victims of gas attacks. They are supposed to be foaming at the mouth. Shaving foam on the lip more like!

  4. Kempe

    Before wading in to me, you might have read the paper you linked to (for which thanks). It gives details of an automated web programme for analysing open source internet information on violent events in the Caucasus and categorising them, in order to construct a database of such events. Its primary aim appears to be an attempt to quantify the number of incidents.

    There is no evidence at all that it attempts to analyse such events, other than in the broadest of categorisations – violence by the insurgents, violence by security forces, shootings, bombings.

    In particular it does not contain ANYTHING that indicates an analysis of such events as to the motives, training and mod. op. of. “insurgents”, the private internet traffic of individuals involved. Nor, incidentally, does it show that Zhukov had uncredited helpers (though doubtless he did). All it shows is that he can write a computer programme which analyses newspaper and other open reports – which rather obviously would make his results highly dependent on the accuracy of those reports.

  5. No sign now on the BBC website of Boston. This is what the mainstream does when the official narrative comes under strain — ignore the story. They’ll come back to it in a week or so, when the “truth” has been tidied up.

  6. This kind of research is the basis of;

    Nine out of ten cats prefer a particular brand of the cat food too! As we all know feline alphabet is written in scents (as verified by Lister of the Red Dwarf) and the cats can in fact identify the brand and read the label as well, both cases are as seen on the telly.

    this is the kind of investigative consumer information that is fed to the punters at large as news. Hence the “journos” are only following the current standards set.

    Conclusion, do not read the bastard and save a lot of time for investigating the events yourself.

  7. resident dissident

    24 Apr, 2013 - 1:54 pm

    Looking at the paper provided by Kempe (or more correctly the appendix to the paper) it seems to more about how the insurgent violence in the North Caucuses can be related to geographical position and proximity to roads. I don’t know where the Guardian have got their Zhukov quote from but it isn’t here.

    One thing that does appear to be demonstrated by the sheer number of incidents is that this is very far from being a region where the Russians and the FSB are in control.

  8. resident dissident

    24 Apr, 2013 - 2:02 pm

    If you read the summary of Zhukovs book here

    it would appear that it is perhaps the Guardian who have not understood what Zhukov has said and in fact he seems to be drawing similar conclusions as to Craig regarding it not being possible to suppress insurgency when there is underlying support for the cause in the local population.

  9. resident dissident

    24 Apr, 2013 - 2:07 pm

    As for journalists misunderstanding academic papers and drawing their own incorrect conclusions there really is nothing new there whatsover. The Guardian used to have a “Bad Science” column on just that subject.

  10. I think that it is about time that the term ‘mainstream media’ was ditched in favour of a more properly descriptive term such as ‘corporate media’.

  11. “Now let us presume four weeks holiday a year and five working days a week. It would take you 33 years of solid work, doing nothing else in your professional life, to analyse thirty thousand cases.”

    Or 33 people, one year. It makes me wonder how many bright lads are being used around the world by various states, to do ‘analysis’ of a highly technical and logical nature, just to ‘work off’ some trumped up criminal charge, such as false rape, a bit of weed in the pocket, or being caught ‘hacking’ into wide open servers.

    [Mod: last paragraph struck out for homophobic language.]

  12. Resident Dissident

    My criticism was aimed largely at the Guardian journalist’s unthinking and poorly written piece conveying that Zhukov had done something impossible. I presume that the journalist phoned Zhukov and got the quote, and then related it to his “analysis” of 30,000 incidents, which were in fact not analysed in any sense relevant to the quote. They were rather “plotted” in the geographical sense, than analysed.

  13. MarkU + 10, Craig Murray + 20

  14. Heterophobic mods !?

  15. Or 33,000 people just over 3 days.

  16. resident dissident

    24 Apr, 2013 - 3:39 pm


    As chairman of a company with gold mining interests in Ghana have you any thoughts on this article in today’s Guardian which appears to be somewhat better researched?

    It certainly should give some thought to those who support the BRICS as offering the way out of many of the world’s problems. Difficult to see how what he Chinese are doing in Ghana and much of Africa doesn’t just represent yet another form of colonialism.

  17. Resident Dissident,

    Yes – I know the author, Afua Hirsch very well. Saw her three days ago, in fact. If anything she underplays the problem.

    The first big kickstart to illegal Chinese gold mining in Ghana was when China started to build the environmentally disastrous Bui dam project (rejected by all Western developmet agencies, including by me in 1999, due to ecological effects probably including the extinction of the West Africa dwarf hippo).

    China announced it was doing it as an “aid” project and it only came out years after signature that in fact Ghana has hypothecated much of its cocoa crop for many years to pay off this “aid”.

    It is a low tech largely earth dam (though very big) and rather than use – and pay -Ghanaian workers China imported large amounts of Chinese convict labour – yes, you read that right. Finding themselves in Ghana with access to earth moving equipment, the convicts immediately started to abscond and soon pretty well all the labour and equipment imported for the dam was engaged in galamfrey gold mining. Word spread in China and now there are unknown numbers of Chinese illegal miners in Ghana, causing massive cyanide poisoning and other environmental damage and bringing a massive increase in gun crime and violence to a hitherto markedly peaceful society.

  18. doug scorgie

    24 Apr, 2013 - 4:03 pm

    “Israeli tanks and bulldozers have conducted an incursion into the Gaza Strip”

    Nothing about this on the BBC yet but if the Palestinians fire rockets in retaliation it will be portrayed as justification of another bombing raid on Gaza by the Zionist cunts.

  19. doug scorgie

    24 Apr, 2013 - 4:08 pm

    A senior official at Syria’s Electricity Ministry has been killed by a magnetic bomb attached to his car.

    Now will this attack be described by the corporate media as an act of terrorism?

  20. Uzbek in the UK

    24 Apr, 2013 - 4:21 pm

    Resident Dissident

    I do not think that anyone claimed that Russian FSB is in full control in North Caucasus. But I presume you agree that number of security personnel in and around Chechnya is many times more than in most other places in Russia including Moscow. Few people who I know who travelled to North Caucasus and who also travelled to Uzbekistan before, noticed that number of block posts in Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetiya are many times more than around Tashkent. Despite insurgency (which has mainly economic roots) in the region, it is hard to claim that anyone could be in the region unnoticed, especially the one who is in high alert with FSB.

  21. Uzbek in the UK

    24 Apr, 2013 - 4:32 pm

    Semi legal Chinese enterprises have been causing some serious environmental issues in neighboring Central Asian republics – Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. There have been few reports about the issues in local and Russian media. The problem with China is that it does not adhere to the most of the international environmental agreements and in Chinese own eyes there is no legal issues with the cause of environmental damage. Everything else does not bother China too much.

    It has to be for the governments and societies affected to stand up to China and others causing damage. But as it stands now there are no mechanics to influence such a giant as China to adhere to internationally agreed standards.

  22. resident dissident

    24 Apr, 2013 - 4:58 pm

    Uzbek in the UK

    While I don’t disagree with much of what you say about Chechenya – the fact that there are so incidences of insurgency within Chechenya would suggest to me that at least some Chechens have managed to find their way around scrutiny from the FSB. In addition, how would you explain how many Chechens have been able to leave to fight against Russia’s allies in Syria?

    At present this is all speculation and might I suggest that we need a few more facts. I have still to hear much of a convincing argument as to why Putin or the FSB would be motivated to support a terrorist attack within the US? Why should he take the risk of doing so and for what reward (which is always pretty high in Putin’s reckoning)?

  23. resident dissident

    24 Apr, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    Uzbek in the UK

    It is not only outside China that the ruling nomenklatura have no concern for the enviroment, liberty or workers rights but within China itself. The issue is pretty much the same in Russia and the rest of the former Soviet Union which continue to be run by elements of the former nomenklatura, whose corruption is really eye watering by Western standards – and will only start to be challenged when the normal checks and balances of a civil society start to develop. It is very difficult to stamp on this corruption in the host country – but the least international institutions should do is to try and do so when it is exported elsewhere.

  24. The Guerrdian has lacked credence for years. You only have to look at their championing of NHS privatisation. Yesterday they had Labour peer and shill of General Healthcare explaining how privatisation would be good for us without any mention of his vested interests or of the fact that General healthcare is on the portfolio of Apax partners, the company that keeps the Guerrdian afloat. Then today it was the turn of Lord Howe, health minister to tell us that the “reforms” are really nothing and won’t change anything. Absolutely no mention of cancer sufferer, Mark McGowan’s heroic attempt to push a toy pig on his hands and Knees four miles across London to Downing Street to protest at the NHS’s destruction and looting.

  25. The irony of the global situation concerning “terrorism” is that it is the government of the United States of America ( at least a faction of it ) that has gone rogue, but simultaneously is claiming to be hunting down terrorists. One can decide for one’s self by considering the facts and ascertaining what is or is not a truthful narrative:-
    My analysis of the Boston bombings follows:-
    Considering the arrest of Tamerlan Tsarnaev
    A. One brother, in the video is told to come out of the car and strip naked.
    B. He is taken into custody naked and arrested.
    C. Next, we hear of a shoot out and that he is shot dead.
    We have A and B on the video – so by what credible process can we ever arrive at “C”?
    So without conjecture.

    A. There are two(2) brothers – and these have been the focal point of attention as the mass media has been reminding us ever since the Boston bombing.
    B. We remove one brother from the equation (i.e. since he is arrested – in custody – no longer a threat). So – we get to:-

    C. That leaves one (1) brother we know to have been shot ( under what circumstances we have yet to ascertain – but he is shot and is in a serious condition). So, we can all reason that what we saw on the video footage was footage of the one that was killed – not the one shot and placed in a serious condition.

    Surely, if a man is already in custody and alive – then when he is shot – under what circumstances can such a shooting and killing of a man who already had stripped naked be justified homicide?

    Simple question.

    The facts versus the case presented to the public
    At this point, I can but comment as follows:-
    1. The person being arrested in the video does look like Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
    2. If the arrest was related to a different and unconnected incident – then that “different incident” would still have coincided with the very period of the bombing, and since Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a suspect, it would be an odd arrest that would have arrested Tamerlan Tsarnaev then but not pertaining to the bombing but another incident.
    3. Surely, the journalist is clearly there in the video speaking directly to his eye witness account of events that pertain directly to the post-bombing search for suspects.
    4. The video appeared on CNN and seems to be projecting to the public the arrest of Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
    See: – the next video mentions CNN retracting the earlier information announcing that a suspect was arrested:-
    The retraction would be consistent with an attempt to find a new narrative once independent observers started posting youtube videos that either directly challenged and/or questioned the official mainstream media’s version.
    And here is another mainstream media video of someone ( Tsarnaev ?) on his stomach lying flat on the roadway. Can we now begin to piece the original dead Tsarnaev together and link to the man subsequently ( Tsarnaev ?) lying flat and come up with a credible narrative to make the official sequence of events ever fit logically together?:-
    Where is the solid case so far built out of the public information that has been disseminated about the brothers?
    Is there an alternate credible narrative about the Boston bombings?
    Can a government, willfully lie, fabricate evidence, and stage a “false flag” event?
    Yes it can if we consider the following video and the photographs of the events surrounding the Boston bombings:-
    Has this type of strategy ever been used or been deployed by the government of America before? Yes it has been:-
    The foregoing declassified document just about says it all, if proof is required of the capacity of government to deceive the citizenry.

    The global cum domestic dimensions of the Boston bombings
    An entire nation was duped by the WMD line sold, before no less an august body, than the United Nations. Fabrications, lies, deceptions and statecraft manipulation at the highest levels was the order of the day – ably assisted by Colin Powell and others at the highest levels of the United States government. Those are concrete facts about events that recently took place, which led to the illegal invasion of Iraq, followed by a million plus Iraqis dead in consequence ( and still counting) and several Americans dead and maimed – in the service of what – an oil war? Hans Blix, the Chief UN weapons inspector’s book* on this whole, sad and bloodthirsty set of events is probably the most, convincing account I have come across of how events unfolded internationally at the time.
    • Name of book: “Disarming Iraq”.
    That backdrop to say this. The misdeeds of the state and its ability to lie, concoct and cover-up is not to be doubted nor debased, by simply focusing on a view that may be posted or published which tries to make a point about the truth behind the events, but fails to do so in a reasoned, consistently logical or credible way. That fact in and of itself does not negate the need to question, analyse and then draw reasonable conclusions.

    The new official narrative about the Boston bombings is that the brothers were “self-radicalised”. Since they happen to be of Chechen descent and also were of the Muslim religion, this further fits into the “war on terror” narrative that Muslims are the enemy, thus justifying more over- expenditures of the military-industrial complex.
    So, I suspect that now the “war on terrorism” mind-set will increasingly be projected from a 9/11 original position of justifying global warfare, into a “post Boston bombing mind-set” justifying the reduction of civil liberties domestically in the US on the basis of fighting and constraining domestic terrorism.

  26. oh dear, the war on terror in its detail is a construct… who would have expected that? Now how can we change this? through elections, little by little, or through????? what, articles that get read and filed away?

    After twelve days in the saddle of my missis’s Brompton, my muscles are tight and I must have lost close to half a stone.

    Great response for Independents, tomorrow a radio Norfolk debate with the party politicians on the panel and the Independent candidates sitting in the audience, don’t you just love the BBC confrontational arrangements….

    FFS its radio and there is no need to re create a Question time type debate, nobody will see it.

    Now, were was I, ahhh, ready for a long slow soak……

  27. Saw this and thought of some of the Daily Mail style harbingers of doom on here.

    The end is nigh. Peace out.

  28. The CE,

    But no mention of the economic violence waged by the casino Capitalists eh?

    I guess life is good for you also CE eh?

    Lucky you.

  29. Nevermind – I ask myself most days…”how can we change this” – even though to me the word ‘change’ is illusionary because nothing changes. Yes we can evolve. 2013 has 4 major protests I am aware of. The 2M Iraq war march in 2003 sealed it’s own sorry fate.

    History can provide a route. The success of the Arab Spring and the Occupy movement is key. A very British protest lasts for a day then we pack up and go, inspired and tired.

    A protest should not be a way to selfishly vent our own outrage; a protest has to be a sustained connection, a blend, a merging of common aims, common intentions. A mission that must be achieved regardless of time. We can radiate awareness like the energy passed from pollinating flower to bee.

    This 100 year phoney ‘war on terror’ as Courtenay explains can only be run out,wound up by a shift in global consciousness. Our minds need to progress, ripening our lives and so the survival of our descendants, those seeds of our love.

    The Fear and terror, the divide and rule, these may be the weapons of the status quo. Knowing they exist is the first step to dispel them.

    1st May, 4th May, 25th May, 22nd Jun

  30. Everything is seduced now. Protest is based on anger and denigrated for it. We need a demonstration, an education, an attraction to better ways. The most effective demonstration would be the opposite of a riot. Sorry if that’s twee or wishful.

    In the past the sight of something enormous growing towards us in the sky would have unsettled most people. If comet ISON this year turns out to be a great one, the mass effect on shared outlook could be heavenly. Few people will be unsettled by it because we know it wont smash us, but few may fail to be awed by it.

    Heavenly assistance or not, when is it going to dawn on us, that we have all the knowledge and all the things we need to turn this world around and live better on it?

    We have been toiling and fighting over our own organisations not with the limits and demands of living well. The framework of our wasted efforts and sacrifices is forged between gargantuan actors in competition and in league with each other. If those actors can not be lifted or self transcend their drama, we are consigned to all their… crisis.

  31. BrianFujisan

    25 Apr, 2013 - 5:15 am

    Crab Thats beautful Poetic wondeful

  32. And –
    Bless. I’m sure the nice Israelis are only trying to conserve fish stocks for the Gazans.

  33. Really sorry about this being off topic but people should know how Shaker Aamer is being abused. Clive Stafford Smith talks to Russia Today.

  34. To demonstrate we must prove our cause is valid. This puts the onus on us. A protest is disapproval, a complaint, we assert our right to question authority, we do not accept the some way we are represented and validity is expressed in numbers

    It is that anger that motivates us, stirs our passion and that anger can be directed and conveyed; we are annoyed but not violent, we are infuriated though never abandoning reason.

  35. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Apr, 2013 - 4:07 pm

    @ Moderator :

    Well done for deleting a homophobic comment.

    Could I suggest that Mr Scorgie’s post of 24 April (16h03) should also have been deleted for the following reasons :
    – completely off-topic (this thread is about the Caucasus and his post was about Gaza)
    – the usual foul and abusive language (“Zionist cunts”).

    Thank you.

  36. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    Zionists are not cunts anymore? Since when? That must be some news!

  37. CE — Another ludicrous claim from the Guardian. Violent crime such as stabbing, molesting, attacking the vulnerable and more are increasing and we report it every hour on UKCollapseRadio.

  38. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Apr, 2013 - 5:45 pm

    A gem from Mark Golding :

    “CE — Another ludicrous claim from the Guardian. Violent crime such as stabbing, molesting, attacking the vulnerable and more are increasing and we report it every hour on UKCollapseRadio.”


    Yes, I bet you report it every hour.

    Why should we believe “UKCollapseRadio” (the title says it all, doesn’t it?) rather than the Guardian? Just because it tells the story Mr Mark Golding likes to put about?

  39. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Apr, 2013 - 5:52 pm

    Establishing the truth and confounding the “critics” :

    Cost of Baroness Thatcher’s funeral was £3,5 million – and NOT the £10 million which was incessantly repeated on a number of previous threads.

    Eat crow, Eminences and Thatcher-haters….

  40. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Apr, 2013 - 5:59 pm

    “@ Jives :

    The CE,

    But no mention of the economic violence waged by the casino Capitalists eh?

    I guess life is good for you also CE eh?

    Lucky you.”


    What a silly, silly comparison….and what a silly, silly ad hominem.

    I thank the CE for his post and link, which provide a bit of cheering news all right-minded and sane people should be pleased to welcome. I know I do!

    And, “Jives”, if life is good to The CE then I, for one, am very pleased with that. As should be any person who isn’t a jealous, snivelling little piece of left-wing spite.

  41. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Apr, 2013 - 6:06 pm

    Early days yet, perhaps, but my first impressions are that the blog is improving :

    1/. more frequent imput from Craig to keep posters on their toes (well, most of them) and to distract the ravers and ranters from their pet obsessions and keep threads on-topic;

    2/. possibily a greater degree of self-moderation and cleaner language (although I did notice an obscenity from Doug Scorgie)

    3/. the welcome absence of the previous day-long newsfeeds from the BBC and other media and of snide and often ad hominem remarks about Jewishness and homosexuality.

    Keep it up!

  42. Sophie Habbercake

    25 Apr, 2013 - 7:32 pm

    Dad. Mum says you’re to come in for your supper in ten minutes or it’ll go cold , AGAIN. And she says got to pick some parsley on your way past her deep beds. She says now you’ve moved your desktop down to the shed she may as well train you to be useful.

    Oh, and Mr Kemp came round again with That Man. He was really cross dad. When mum told him you were’nt in he just pushed past her and went straight to the stairs cupboard and he told her he knew where the moron hides and then he shouted “I know you’re in there” and flung the door open and when you were’nt there he got even crosser and told mum to tell you “Do you call that trolling? Pernickety, nit picking and feigned outrage? A F***ing baboon would do a better job!” And That Man kept on saying “Yus” and his hands were shaking. And then mum got cross too and she said people would’nt be rude about Zionists if Zionists were’nt so bloody rude to Palestinians and Mr Srougie was’nt off-topic anyway cos the thread’s called “Ludicrous Claims” and doesn’t that just about define Zionism?”

    Then Mr Kemp and That Man stormed off and Mr Kemp was muttering about that “That idiot better up his game or else…….” And then they were gone and then mum took Jeremy to his elocution lesson.

  43. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Apr, 2013 - 7:53 pm

    Above post – sub-optimal Private Eye, ca. 1973.

  44. Sophie Habbercake

    25 Apr, 2013 - 8:01 pm

    Well what are you going to do about me, dad? Do you think I care about your opinions. I think mum’sright about that you should get yourself a proper job and stop trolling. I think I’ll be quite pleased when That Man finds you, dad.

  45. Mrs Habbercake

    25 Apr, 2013 - 8:42 pm

    Rupert Habbercake.
    Come in for your supper this moment or I can tell you la vita sara molto bloody male.

    And do you really think all that drivel is going to satisfy Mr Kempe or for that matter that Mr Murray will give a toss about your evaluation of his blog?

    And do you think your superior tone as in “silly, silly ad hominem” makes you look clever? Maybe Mr Kempe had a point about baboons.

  46. Habbabkuk,

    You sound increasingly hogus and dull.

    Mind you,thats preferable to your usual sinister talking of Mary.

    Nasty little oaf arent you?

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Apr, 2013 - 10:13 pm

    @ Jives :

    Well, I suppose that when you wrote “..sinister talking of Mary..” you meant “..sinister stalking of Mary..”?

    But in fact your error was almost correct, in that I draw the provisional conclusion that my endeavours to talk to Mary appear to have had the effect of getting her to re-evaluate her contribution to this blog and to reach the conclusion that providing running news from the BBC and other msm was perhaps a rather redundant exercise. And, important as what is happening in the West Bank and Gaza is, it is rather a relief that we can now, it seems, sometimes get through an entire thread devoted to other issues without any mention of events there.

    Although there are still a few Jurassic fossils around (I mention no names, of course), the relevance, punchiness and general tone of the blog does seem to have taken a turn for the better.

    Whereas egomaniacs and those interested in posturing will of course be unhappy, anyone truly concerned with the true interest (and interests) of this blog can, surely, only welcome this turn of events.

  48. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Apr, 2013 - 11:01 pm

    Re: “performance” bonuses for top civil servants : GENUINE QUESTION :

    Assuming that this is not a canard, does anyone happen to know when this started up?

    Last time I looked top civil servants just got a salary and for that it was assumed that they’d do their job properly.

    Was it started for the same reasons as MPs got lavish expenses – a more politically acceptable sort of pay rise?

    Thanks for any info on this.

  49. On topic – surely this post should be a letter to the Guardian too? It’s great.

    (Off topic) “genuine question” from H: as opposed to all the other non-genuine ones, you mean? Honestly, I’d rather have Mary back than this crazy crowing. Why don’t you just settle down and participate nicely, I wonder? By the way, you are off topic, something which seems to have exercised you unduly in the past. Surely you are in danger of self-destructing.

  50. Just to be clear. I am a guest of UKCollapseRadio. The show covers local stories and in itself demonstrates an alliance certainly a and friendship to citizen journalism.

    As J Rosenthal said, “The people formerly known as the audience are simply the public made realer, less fictional, more able, less predictable.”

    The people formerly known as the audience are those who were on the receiving end of a media system created to serve propaganda and a corrupt corporate Establishment. Profit soured the cream, with few exceptions ran one way, in a broadcasting pattern, with high entry fees and a few corporations competing to speak very loudly while the rest of the population listened in isolation from one another.

    Those that are mind melded and dissolved into this grisly mainstream media, pushed instead of pulled flimflam by the Guardian and others, I say thank-you, without you we just would not know the urgency of intent to evolve.

    ‘..all zookeepers must take their animals home for the night.’

    Hat tip to UKCollapseRadio – Stand Strong Dudes.

  51. Bonuses are not allowed for employees of the U.S. federal government, which has already lasted two years or so and looks as if it will continue.

  52. What I meant to say was:

    Bonuses are not allowed for employees of the U.S. federal government under the current raise freeze, which has already lasted two years or so and looks as if it will continue.

  53. Habbakuk,

    Don’t try and dress up your sinister stalking of Mary as casual inquiry.

    And who’d know more about shallow,preening ego than you?

    Your mission here has become an embarrassment-probably even to your handlers.


    Public Meeting
    Conway Hall, London, WC1 4RL
    Tuesday 30 April, 6.30pm to 9.30 pm
    Light refreshments
    Entrance £4 unwaged £2
    Full price tickets in advance £3

  55. Magrat Thatcher

    26 Apr, 2013 - 12:26 am

    For much food for thought, many thanks to Craig, Courtenay, Mark, Crab and all the light-shiners.

    For a good laugh thanks to Habbabkuk and team jokers, you brightened my day.

    Goodnight all.

  56. One thing that struck me during the Thatcherfest was the St. Francis of Assisi speech clips, were all cut drastically short, because immediately she finished her little homily the volume of boos, hisses, and catcalls was tremendous, reverberated around the street, resonated in the microphones and almost blew her bouffant hair-do sideways. The memory hole indeed.

  57. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Apr, 2013 - 7:59 am

    @ Lysias :

    Thank you for that info – from which I gather (correctly?) that the awarding of bonuses to civil servants was also a feature of the US landscape before the current pay freeze.

    Can anyone provide info to my original question about the picture in the UK?

    @ Technicolour :

    Well, I thought I’d label it a genuine question in the hope that I’d get a serious answer. The various unhelpful ‘responses’ (except that from Lysias) seem to demonstrate that this appelation was both necessary and unfruitful.

  58. O/T plea to the moderators,

    Can you please come clear the spam bots out of the Why I’m Convinced Anna Ardin thread? They’re getting a bit out of hand. Thanks.

  59. Thinks…

    How do I get Sophie Habbercake (who is lovely, and I want to marry her) to post again? I know, a post about Israel will bring her dad out. And while he isn’t watching…

    As long as it doesn’t have to be the full Orthodox deal, Sophie, I’m yours.

  60. English Knight

    26 Apr, 2013 - 8:30 am

    Yes its Zen Koan time again ! “Was the ALMIGHTY more silent in Rwanda or Cambodia? All ruminations to be submitted by the next 15 years please !!

    Israel imposed a military no-go zone around the Gaza Strip’s borders, known as the buffer zone. Palestinians are barred from accessing the land in the buffer zone or building in the area. According to the Al-Mezan Centre for Human Rights, the area contains most of Gaza’s valuable arable land.

  62. dearest dragon, please be aware that Sophie Habbercake is not your type, firstly she is alive and not made of the same rotten flesh, that banished her stalking dad to the shed, her flesh is fresh and not to your liking.

    But you must be hungry and one swipe of your tail could most likely demolish that shed, open it like a tin of out of date pig meat and hey presto…. feeding time.

  63. Al Mezan Issues its Quarter Report on Israeli Violations in Gaza Strip

    On Wednesday 3 April 2013, the Al Mezan Center for Human Rights issued its quarter report on the Israeli violations of international humanitarian law against the population of the Gaza Strip during the first four months of 2013.

    The report showed that two persons were killed by the Israeli occupation forces (IOF), 30 persons were injured, and 5 of whom were children.In addition, the IOF arrested 45 Palestinians. The report highlighted that the IOF carried out 13 limited incursions into the Gaza Strip. It also showed that the IOF escalated attacks against fishermen; it carried out 38 attacks against them.

    The report started with general introduction then it talked about International Humanitarian Law (IHL) principles which are applied on the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) and the Israeli obligations under IHL. The report also presents statistical information on Al Mezan’s monitoring and documentation notes during the reporting period.

    The highlighted the IOF systematic attack Palestinian civilians and their properties near the borders. These attacks come in the context of ongoing Israeli efforts to enforce the so-called ‘security buffer zone’ that extends 300 meters along the Gaza Strip’s borderlines with Israel. These attacks prevent hundreds of Palestinian farmers from farming their lands which are located near the border-line with Israel. The report presented the negative impacts of Israeli practices on the lives of Palestinian farmers.

    At the end of the report Al Mezan expressed its condemnation of the Israeli continuous violations against civilians in the Gaza Strip and imposing restriction on them in violation of IHL.

    The Al Mezan Centre for Human Rights reiterated its previous calls on international community to take action to bring to a swift end the violations of international law perpetrated in the oPt including the siege which represents the illegal collective punishment of the Gaza population.Al Mezan stressed the importance of bringing to an end the ‘policy of immunity’ pursued by the international community in relation to violations of human rights and IHL in the oPt.

    Israel is the first and only country to unilaterally suspend relations with the UNHRC and was absent from its Universal Periodic Review by that body:

  64. Love is blind, Nevermind…;-)

    It’s always fun to see what comes out of the woodwork when a certain rogue state is mentioned, though…

  65. More from the ludicrous claims department of the Labour party. Their best EU civil servant Ms. Ashton, berating smokers about their dangerous habits, the report on her existence is calling her weak, with a uniquely poor management.

    She can’t really be bothered about it, cause when she leaves, her ample EU pay/pension will ensure that she will never have to work again.

  66. This Palestinian report is apparently accepted by Israel’s IMRA outlet, which repeats it in full:

    Which may have some bearing on why John Kerry* was so anxious that Turkey’s Erdogan should not visit Gaza.
    Imagine – if Gaza had a viable port, it would be able to trade. It would be able to have an economy! And if a major regional power backed it, the IDF’s inevitable acts of piracy would be harder to get away with. Intolerable, obviously.


  67. doug scorgie

    26 Apr, 2013 - 9:42 am

    More ludicrous “news”:

    “There is “limited but growing” evidence that Syrian government troops have used chemical weapons, UK Prime Minister David Cameron says.”

    “It is extremely serious, this is a war crime.” [no irony]

    What is worrying of course is the public acceptance of such obvious bullshit.

    I wonder what Clegg and Miliband will have to say?

  68. Oh goody, I see the thread’s topic has now opened up to the much broader “Ludicrous claims”. I like it. Ok, here’s a now-on-topic Ludicrous Claim from Stateside. The poor dears have gotten soooo frustrated at not being able to extradite someone from Sweden for conspiracy to commit espionage that they’ve gone and unsealed a sealed indictment on a nine-year-old case, gosh darn it!:

  69. Chloe Smith’s previous employer, the old boy network schemers, and three other accountant firms had some considerable help from treasury insiders to avoid taxes.

    Surely that is ludicrous enough for Osborne to put aside his rolled up banknote and act against these schemers who have far more resources than our tax authorities.

  70. Even more bullshit news

    “New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has said the Boston Marathon bombing suspects planned to detonate the rest of their explosives in Times Square.”

    “Before REPORTEDLY telling investigators [ Dzhokhar Tsarnaev] and his brother planned an attack on Times Square, he had said they were planning to go to New York “to party” after the bombings.”

    “Following 16 hours of interrogation, Mr Tsarnaev stopped responding to investigators’ questions after being read his legal rights to remain silent and have a lawyer, US media report.”

    [NO LAWYER PRESENT so we have to believe the FBI?]

    “Mr Bloomberg said there was no evidence New York was currently a target, but that the Tsarnaevs’ alleged plan proved the city remained a prime location for people who want to “bomb and kill Americans”.

    “On Thursday afternoon, police vehicles lined Times Square in a show of force, with officers standing SHOULDER TO SHOULDER.” [where have I heard that before?]

    Things are getting somewhat surreal

  71. “Mr Bloomberg said there was no evidence New York was currently a target, but that the Tsarnaevs’ alleged plan proved the city remained a prime location for people who want to “bomb and kill Americans”.

    How true. When I visited New York many years ago, I was profoundly impressed by the number of Americans you could find there. Many more than in Helsinki.

  72. Mark Steel in today’s Independent is rather good on Boston –

    ….“We got ’em, we GOT ’EM,” roared a series of men, waving flags into cameras as if they’d won an Olympic medal. And once the story wasn’t so much a human tragedy as a triumph for the USA, I couldn’t help thinking “Oh, you ARE masterful aren’t you, managing with no more resources than the army, SWAT teams, marines, an assortment of helicopters, the FBI and the entire population of Boston to track down a lunatic covered in blood who’d been shot through the neck and was wriggling about in a boat in someone’s garden. I wonder who you’ll meet in the SECOND round of the World Hide and Seek championships.”

    The strangest part is that this excitement doesn’t usually happen on the occasions that a madman in America gets captured after going on the rampage in a school or shopping centre with the machine-guns he’s constitutionally entitled to carry. For example, there were no joyous celebrations when James Holmes was captured after blasting 12 people dead in a cinema in Denver. I suppose that, unlike in Boston, the people of Denver just aren’t party-going types…. [continues]

  73. Two minds with but a single copy of the Indie, Dreoilin. Genuine coincidence, but sorry.

  74. That did raise a smile indeed, thanks Dreolin.

    This story will no doubt raise expectations for Chinese Investments in Israel, being beastly with pigs is just down their line.

  75. April Showers

    26 Apr, 2013 - 12:08 pm

    See the comments below here. The programme Jerusalem – An Archaeological Mystery was taken off by the BBC last night.

    Incidentally the new director of news at the BBC to replace Helen Boaden is James Harding.

    “Harding, who is Jewish, will also have to leave behind the pro-Israeli line of the Times. In a debate at the Jewish Community Centre For London in 2011, Harding said “I am pro-Israel” and that in reporting on the Middle East, “I haven’t found it too hard” because “the Times has been pro-Israel for a long time”. However, he also stressed the need for balanced news reporting and said he was also in favour of a Palestinian state.

    While Murdoch has never said why he wanted to replace Harding, many have speculated that the Times’s falling circulation and combined with the editor’s critical stance over the phone-hacking scandal were to blame.

    But those in the know say it was simpler than that. “There was a sense that the paper needed more of an edge, needed to be a more newsy paper,” said one insider.
    The paper had long had a “cerebral” tone under editors such as William Rees Mogg and Peter Stothard. Thomson, Harding’s immediate predecessor – like him, imported from the Financial Times – had been tasked with shaking it up and when he went to New York in late 2007 to run the newly acquired Wall Street Journal he handed the mantle to Harding.

    “James tried to make the paper more newsy and although he had all the right reflexes, hard news that upsets people wasn’t in his culture like it would be if he had come from the Telegraph or the Daily Mail,” said one insider.
    Another former colleague added: “[Robert] Thomson wasn’t anti-establishment, he just couldn’t care less what people thought. Harding cared deeply. He will fit in well at the BBC.”

  76. “See the comments below here. The programme Jerusalem – An Archaeological Mystery was taken off by the BBC last night. ”

    I was looking forward to it too.

    Statement by the BBC:-

    “We originally acquired Jerusalem: An Archaeological Mystery Story to supplement BBC Four’s season exploring the history of archaeology. However, we have decided that it does not fit editorially and are no longer planning to show it as part of the season.”

    They must think we’re all daft.

  77. “Following 16 hours of interrogation, Mr Tsarnaev stopped responding to investigators’ questions after being read his legal rights to remain silent and have a lawyer, US media report.”

    I don’t have any problem believing that. But I still find it slightly odd that someone/anyone can grow up in the USA and not know about their Miranda rights. If they don’t learn about it in school, surely they see enough about it in TV programmes and Hollywood films?

  78. Arbed and others; thanks for keeping the ‘Anna Ardin is a liar’ thread alive.

    Assange may have been forced ‘up the river’ in London’s Ecuadorean Embassy for almost a year, is, thus far still generating output. His ‘run for cover’ from the flesh eating ‘zombies’ has already cost the British tax-payer some £5M according to Scotland Yard.

  79. No problem Komodo.

    Nevermind, I find it very hard to read about animal cruelty. And there’s a lot of it going on – especially in China it would appear.

    Some horrible stuff here

  80. Mark Golding, 12.39pm

    My pleasure. It’s worth popping by that thread from time to time. I hear people think this whole Sweden/Cuba business may go very deep (or very high up, if you prefer), considering this Velaquez lady’s marriage to an official in the Swedish Foreign Office who was at one time himself involved in placing student interns in foreign embassies. (Anna Ardin travelled to Cuba carrying funds for a right-wing opposition group there (and was subsequently deported from Cuba as a result) on behalf of the Social Democrats Christian Brotherhood (the same people who organised Assange’s trip to Stockholm in 2010), but her ‘internships’ abroad (she also interned in the US embassy in Stockholm, I believe, and the embassy in Argentina) must have been vetted by the Swedish Foreign Office. There are people digging like crazy into this story as we speak.

  81. If you would be unemployed and it would be up to me to appoint a new chief constable for the Met, Arbed, you would be it, your sleuthing is superb, thanks for popping in now and then reminding us of the latest.

    When were these two accusers last seen in public, I ask myself, why is the Swedish Government covering up this story further, digging themselves deeper into the hole?

    Is this a pay off of sorts, entry of a certain Swedish family, running many of their nations companies, into the NYSE, in return for Assange’s hide?

  82. Hahaha…
    The Syrian regime is retaking swathes of al Nusra-held territory, so out come the WMD fears!
    And the corporate media (good call, whoever decided to call the that) hoovers the shit up.
    Yes, the Syrian regime has got the upper hand, so of course they’re going to risk demonisation by using nerve gas. Makes perfect sense.
    Only Israel and the US can use banned weaponry with impunity. Only they can kill countless children and get away with it.

  83. Why, thank thee kindly Nevermind (though I’m not sure I have quite the right mindset for employment with the Met, frankly)

    Your theory regarding the Bonniers and the NYSE is as good as any. It’s now becoming apparent that the upper echelons in Sweden is as awash with corruption as our own dear benighted isle.

    I’ll just copy here my latest post on the Why I’m Convinced Anna Ardin is a Liar thread, to fill you in that the shit has well and truly hit the fan in Sweden over this news.

    Swedish Justice Ministry, Foreign Ministry and secret services (SAPO) scrambling to get the story straight in Swedish media…

    Spy Indicted married to Swedish UD [Foreign Office] man:

    … in which the Swedish Justice Minister’s office admits they’ve known about this woman’s case for years but in nine years there has NOT been any extradition request from the US for her.

    Makes you wonder what has been going on all that time then, that the US has now finally, battle-scared, given up the ghost on ever getting their mits on their wanted spy and decided “Hey, what the hell, let’s make the indictment public anyways”…

    And a laugh out loud moment in this article on

    “DN have searched but could not reach managers at the Swedish Ministry of Justice to be told what to do.”

    I’ll assume that’s just Google translate being unkind… 😉

    But, seriously, just exactly whose buttons are being pressed by the US DoJ in this sudden public pronouncement? First the Swedish Foreign Office denies it knows anything about it, then reverses that position. Then says the official this Velaquez woman is married to left the FO, but there’s documentary proof he sat on a forum deciding on Swedish policy regarding Libya/he’s on their Council of Ministers. (More links provided in the Why I’m Convinced thread, if anyone’s interested) And it shouldn’t be forgotten that there was hoohah in Sweden recently about Carl Bildt’s own spying in passing top secret Swedish government documents to Washington (and then to the CIA) back in the 1970s. And that, apparently, this lady and her husband are neighbours, or near-neighbours, of Carl Bildt himself. All very cosy…

  84. Swedish citizens, by now, must realise that their foreign office and justice system are intrinsically linked to less than judicial practises.
    Soon we have to chain Komodo to a tractor for the rotten smell wafting over, otherwise he”l start swimming the North Sea, leaving young Sophie Habbercake alone with her stalking daddy.

    No doubt you would have already seen this site from Professor Blogg, clearly point to the failings of the Swedish judiciary. Its worth a read for those who have not seen it yet.

    Those who do not want to see why Sweden has nosedived from a law abiding state to a US lackey, feel free to make your case.

  85. Thanks, Nevermind – yes, I’ve read that one. Perhaps you’ll be interested in this one…

    Anna Ardin’s now-deleted blog post (Poor Anna, everything she writes somehow gets preserved anyway, haha) about her deportation from Cuba in 2006. (Google translate required)

    It’s particularly interesting in that it mentions “permission from SAPO” [Sweden’s security service] and a final-night dinner “at an embassy” (note that “an” – not “the” Swedish embassy in Cuba, “an” embassy there…)

    Then couple that with this, US Lady-Spy’s hubby’s role in placing students interns in foreign embassies:

    His name – Anders Kviele – is given as the primary contact at the bottom.

  86. translated it appears to be this:

    Kicked from Cuba in 2006.

    SUNDAY, AUGUST 20, 2006

    Cuba Libre
    Met an old friend yesterday: Anna Ardin equality manager at Uppsala Student Union. She had just come home from Cuba where she would write her essay in political science on the political oppositonen. It had not gone well. Now she could not quite as alien to jail or anything, but her post says a lot about how the situation is there for the domestic opposition. Read her blog posts sent, unsolicited and dejected and you will understand what I mean. For Cuba (or democracy) interested are very interesting to read on her blog.


    Sent off, unwanted, dejected

  87. Ah! Sorry, should have explained Nevermind. Ardin’s blog post is contained in the Spoiler field (the bit you’ve missed out of your translation above).

  88. Anders Kviele, Arbed? Wonder if this is the same Anders Kviele (scroll down to ‘Sweden’)

    I’d certainly expect to see a spook or two under the logo ‘No reconstruction without transformation.’

    You can contact the IADB here:

  89. Yup, it’s a lets-develop-the-savages outfit:

    As a public, “regionally owned” development Bank, the IDB regularly issues statements about its commitment to liberalization, expressed initially in economic terms but also in terms of how its financial and technical assistance complements political liberalization in the region. How ironic, then, that IDB officials and project managers should continue to negotiate, plan, and implement operations without the informed participation of affected people and their advocate organizations (usually NGOs), and even without the knowledge of elected officials in the borrowing countries.

  90. Sophie Habercake

    26 Apr, 2013 - 11:01 pm


    Sorry it’s taken me so long to reply to your kind offer of marriage.
    I would have got back on this thread after school but I got kept back in detention for asking Miss Trunchball why we had that statue of a terrorist outside St Clement Danes. She got all puffed up and told the class “That’s a ludicrous claim, Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Harris was a Great Englishman!” And then I read out what he said in Wikipedia

    “… the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories… “

    and all the while she was yelling at me to close my mouth and sit down
    and then she said that’s quite enough young lady, get out of this class right now and wait outside the headmistress’s office. But it was worth it because Gary Braintree winked at me and said “Cool!” as I left the class.

    Which brings me back to your proposal. I’m flattered but I have to tell you you’re not the only reptile in my life. When Gary brought me home after that party in Trafalgar Square Dad told mum he couldn’t stand that reptile sniffing around the place. Anyway Gary says you’re probably just some wrinkly old grandpa posing as a lizard, so I think we shouldn’t rush into this. Besides you’d end up in prison pretty soon if we didn’t wait two and a half years. And mum says you’d be in for a bit of a shock too, but she always says things like that.

    *What kind of living-fossil uses words like “Ludicrous”? (Apart from Dad)

  91. doug scorgie

    27 Apr, 2013 - 9:15 am

    Some news to ponder

    “New York police say what appears to be part of the landing gear of one of jets flown into the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001 has been found.”

    “The 5ft (1.52m) piece of metal, which bears a Boeing label and serial number, was wedged between two New York City buildings, police said.”

    “It’s a manifestation of a horrific terrorist act a block and a half away from where we stand,” New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters outside the secured site. “It brings back terrible memories to anyone who was here, who was involved in that event.”

    “Mr Kelly told reporters after inspecting it that a length of rope was looped around the piece of steel and that no marks were visible on the walls overhead.”

    “What appears to be the remains of a broken pulley can be seen with the wreckage and the New York Times reports that Mr Kelly did not completely EXCLUDE the idea that the aircraft debris may have been LOWERED into the gap.”

    The location is at the site where a mosque and community centre has been proposed, three streets away from “Ground Zero” – the site of the twin towers. [coincidence?]

    My emphasis

  92. An interview explaining a bit about Swiss banking and why this Alpine State is home to many tax avoiders and crooks.

  93. April Showers,: “The programme Jerusalem – An Archaeological Mystery was taken off by the BBC last night.”

    There’s a fascinating discussion here on the archeological connections that Israel is desperate to find, on a thread titled: “Did David and Solomon really exist?”

  94. April Showers

    28 Apr, 2013 - 8:55 pm

    Rouge John Hilley encapsulates what went on with the BBC. He includes some comments from Jonathan Cook a freelance journalist who lives in Nazareth. Cook’s points a) and b) give the real reason for the BBC cowardice. They are scared for the blowback from the Israel lobby.

    a) it suggests the Zionist claim that Jews are “returning” to the Promised Land is bogus – the truth is they never left.

    b) it also suggests that today’s Palestinians are in fact descended from those Jews who remained (converting later to Christianity and Islam), while most of the Jews “returning” are descended from Jewish converts who never lived in the region.

    Ilan Ziv’s Exile, a Myth Unearthed – uncovering BBC bias


    Separately I have been watching Milord Patten and the new DG Milord Hall answering Whittingdale’s DCMS committee on the Sweeney Panorama programme which used LST students as cover to enter the country. Not impressed with Hall. A wet. Not a strong type which is what was needed.

    I believe I saw this persons sitting in the background, Nicholas Kroll, who runs the BBC Trust Unit. £246k pa plus. A snip. Ex civil servant from the DCMS no less.

    The Trust Unit

    The Trust is supported by a team of 70 staff, known as the Trust Unit. These staff are independent from the BBC Executive and include specialists in audience research, performance analysis, and finance. The Trust Unit is headed by its Director, Nicholas Kroll.

    In 2007/08, the BBC Trust cost £11.909 million to run; in 2008/09, £10.517 million; and in 2009/10, £10.502 million, excluding Ofcom fees.[17]

    Patten is now patting himself on the back for the ‘impeccable coverage’ by the BBC of the Thatcher death and funeral. How dreadful these toads are. Actually I like toads. What else can I call them? Snakes perhaps.

  95. April Showers

    28 Apr, 2013 - 8:59 pm


    Scared of…
    this person…

    ‘the country’ being North Korea

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