The shocking death of Lee Rigby quite naturally appals us all. The intention of the crazed little group who conceived this killing was to make it as horrible as possible in order to scare people.
Horrible, sociopathic violence happens to people from time to time. They have done since Cain killed Abel, metaphorically or literally as you choose. Here is another headline today, just as horrific:
A British soldier has been jailed for stabbing a 10-year-old boy after getting drunk on vodka while serving in Afghanistan.
Both that obscene attack and Michael Adebolajo’s appalling actions are borne out of the same conflict. But it is reasonable to suppose that both these incidents involved people with, for whatever reason, a pre-disposition to murderous violence.
Such people have always been with us and will always be with us, but fortunately they are very, very few. In a nation of 60 million, involvement in violent crime is very low. If you are the victim of criminal violence, the odds over the last decade are about one in twenty thousand that the violence inflicted on you will have any linkage to political or terrorist causation. And the odds that you will suffer any kind of violent attack are thankfully pretty remote.
We should not panic from theatrical violence, just deplore and take sober stock. Sadly if a lunatic on the bus decides to strangle you tomorrow, there are no pre-emptive laws that can stop that. We should stop pretending that the state can always prevent.
To those who are getting annoyed because this thread about the Woolwich attack is being taken over by people discussing the Woolwich attack:
If the subject is not of interest to you I’m sure there are other places where the subject is more to your liking. If you insist on hanging around however, you could try joining in properly rather than simply chuntering from the sidelines.
If you are content with the official narrative of events you could for instance say why. If it’s based on the evidence you could cite the evidence in question. If it’s not based on the evidence you could explain what it is based on.
Ref the non specified source of the Kerry $4bn for the Palestinians.
John Kerry’s Political Posturing on Palestine
by BOB FANTINA
May 28 2013
As U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry attempts to put his particular spin on resolving the generations-old crisis of Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, he has travelled to the World Economic Forum. There he waved the possibility of $4 billion investments in the Palestinian economy, from a worldwide conglomerate of investors, over a period of three years. Of course, he hasn’t specified who these investors would be. It was reported that “… Kerry did not identify specific companies with plans to set up shop in the West Bank or how he hoped to remove obstacles to Palestinian commerce.”
The U.S. government in 2013 will give Israel over $3.15 billion, an increase over the billions it gave Israel last year. Yet the U.S. doesn’t ever seem to have any problem determining where that money comes from: the U.S. taxpayer has for decades been funding the apartheid state of Israel.
Regarding removing obstacles to Palestinian commerce, perhaps we could take a look at what some of those obstacles are.
/..
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/28/john-kerrys-political-posturing-on-palestine/
“Was he including nuclear?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMsOGpxA3U
“Bill Maher is taken apart by Glenn Greenwald for trying to absolve the US from any responsibility for the mass slaughter and destruction in Muslim countries, blaming it on Islamic fundamentalism, as if the Afghanistan and Iraq wars never happened, as if the US wasn’t pushing for more war in Iran, as if it isn’t intervening in Somalia and Yemen.”
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/bill-maher-shredded-by-glenn-greenwald-on-us-intervention-in.html#entry33763875
A bit further away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm7ObVSix7w
Some observations and questions –
1. Is it possible that most bystanders, at the time the videos were made, and having no benefit of first knowing what had transpired prior to entering the scene of the murder, knew nothing of what had happened, could not see enough from their respective positions to ascertain what in fact had happened and perhaps assumed that a terrible car accident had taken place? Many people just don’t want to get involved in incidents beyond gawking from the fringes of a crowd. Are they supposed to flee in terror? Of what? They know NOTHING.
2. It is quite clear from the poor quality, low resolution video footage on my TV, that there is plenty of blood at the scene – on the pavement where Lee Rigby’s body was dragged to the road and on the alleged killer’s hands, weapons and dark grey clothes. Anybody still confused about that?
3. The car that struck Lee Rigby was designed to crumple for accident safety and the lamp post was designed to NOT crumple for the same reason. Auto engineers don’t design lamp posts and lamp post engineers don’t design cars. Duh!
4. One of the alleged killers lost a thumb, either by a misfiring hand gun or police fire. Media images were appropriately censored because some people, including minors, have access to these images. Do any of you want children to see uncensored images of horrific injuries?
5. “Jesuit Atheist”, who is clearly neither a Jesuit nor Atheist, is doing a fine job of either pranking or trolling on this thread. His confident rejection of every conspicuously obvious detail and reasonable explanation that is consistent with the official version of events, only makes sense when you understand that he is purposefully leading readers astray. For every detail that he disputes, he describes how it “should” be as if real life is supposed to unfold like a cheap, predictable Hollywood flick. Is life so predictable that you know EXACTLY how each detail “should” unfold?
So let’s ask the questions that need to be asked –
Was there really a soldier called Lee Rigby?
Was anyone actually murdered in Woolwich?
Are there really killers in hospital who will be tried, convicted and imprisoned?
According to this conspiracy fantasy, quite clearly … no!
The Foreign Policy Outlook
In the new regional context, how can leaders bolster security and enhance international cooperation?
Dimensions to be addressed:
•Future alliances and fault lines
•Centres of regional leadership
•The role of the US, the EU and Turkey#
Speakers:
Nabil Elaraby
John McCain
Francis Maude
Amr Moussa
Robert Menendez
Chaired by: Mina Al-Oraibi
Jordan 24-26 May 2013
http://www.weforum.org/events/world-economic-forum-middle-east-and-north-africa-2013/programme
Liddle was once editor of Radio 4 Today.
‘Two black savages hacked a man to death while shouting Allahu Akbar; that’s really all you need to know, isn’t it?’
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/rod-liddle/2013/05/terrorist-attack-or-not/
comments – http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1369752134.html
Aah! Vintage Habba. 300pm Thanks so much.
“@ Jesuit Atheist :
You have taken up a lot of bandwidth and readers’ time with your numerous posts on the Woolwich killing.”
That’s what the thread’s about dummkopf!
So why are you here then?
As if we didn’t know by now.
………………………………………………..
And here’s a little gift for your blood-pressure.
Lobotokuk Splendidus
Verse 72
I chide and I smear
Those fools I can’t bear
My fury is mindless
My self regard boundless
my eruptions could power a small town
I ignore all your questions
I am the King and I’m tireless
Not really some sad little clown
@ Jesuit Atheist:
“Habbabkuk,
I have a suggestion for you. Seeing as you like to be told what to think why don’t you get in touch with anti-Arab propaganda producing MSM photo journalist for ‘The Sun’, Gavin Rodgers, and ask him? After all, he was there”
————
Why ask you and not him? Well, there are at least 2 reasons :
1/. He was just the poor sap who witnessed what happened (and obviously either missed quite a bit of is lying, according to you). You , on the other hand, seem not only to have “seen” more than the man on the spot, and missed less, but also to be perfectly au fait with the “true” story behind this;
2/. He is not inundating us with comments on this blog whereas you are. So you owe us.
Now you’ve understood, off you go, laddy, we’re waiting!
“Is it possible that most bystanders…know NOTHING.”
Yes it is, in fact it is extremely likely because they all saw NOTHING. Funny that. The actual eyewitnesses on the ground appear to be less aware of what is going on in front of their noses than say.. I don’t know… Nick Raynsford MP? Who’s very very early assessment of the event, without visiting the scene, without the advantage of seeing video and images, was so accurate that his account has not altered one bit and has since become the defining narrative employed by every journalist and politician.
Not only that, but Nick Raynsford MP was aware of the unfolding events from the earliest moments and when eyewitnesses on the ground were still talking about car accidents. In fact it appears no eyewitness knew what happened in front of their noses that day until later on when they were told by politicians and journalists, who were not there.
@Habba 4 28pm
“2/. He is not inundating us with comments on this blog whereas you are. So you owe us.”
How can you even make this stuff up?
Here are two clues you have clearly missed Sherlock.
1. Craig Murray Blog.
2. Comments Section.
I know you will just discount this because I am after all a just contempable cocnspiracist, clear grasping at straws.
But I feel myself that these are promising leads. Elementary, but obviously too oblique for the King
And before you bother to correct my spelling Habba, my excuse is I was having to extinguish the fire on my keyboard.
A nonexistent crowd will post video on youtube for sure. That kind of thing happens in Habberwolrd all the time.
And now for a few deep breaths!
Jemand many thanks for inserting a welcome dose of reality into the increasingly bizarre proceedings here. There has also been some comments about the evidence disappearing from the public arena – well perhaps rather than seeing a conspiracy some might wish to understand that this is perfectly normal in high profile criminal cases where the police know that the Courts and CPA prefer to see evidence presented to the jury fully and in context and with proper legal scrutiny so that there is a fair trial and no improper attempt to sway likely jurors one or the other before the case comes to court.
Of course not a few here prefer to believe that “truth and justice” are best served by something other than the normal legal processes where decisions as to guilt or otherwise can be made on internet forums where parties with a fixed world view just select and presen that evidence which supports their prejudices rather than the normal legal processes.
I did find Brian Fujisan quote from Bin Laden rather revealing – now we can leave aside whether Bin Laden was a figure of authority who views are worth listening too or not – but what Brian conveniently fails to mention is that the extract concerned was taken from the very same statement where Bin Laden initially denied his and Al Quaeda’s involvement in 9/11. He then of course came clean and admitted such involvement a few years later in 2004 – but not before the useful idiots had got to work spending their time manufacturing a wide range of conspiracy theories where the conspirators were everyone other than Bin Laden and Al Quaeda. Stangely enough the same useful idiots now appear to be hard at work with Woolwich 2013.
The London hospitals where the alleged killers are being treated are being kept secret for obvious security reasons despite reports of armed guard in two London hospitals.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woolwich-suspect-radicalised-by-hate-preacher-as-mi5-admit-both-attackers-were-known-to-them-8627618.html
A citizen investigative journalist sent to Woolwich Queen Elizabeth A&E and Memorial Hospital was unable to report any recent gunshot injury cases.
The irony of ironies, the same Billy fourteen pints, and his mates keep quiet when the ziofuckwits are attacking and murdering Palestinians by dropping every weapon that’s ever been devised, and freely made available to the rabid lunatic ziofuckwits, by US/UK/Germany/France/etc.
@April Showers
“Careful Jemand. Your (racial) prejudices are showing and have been shown throughout.”
ROFLMFAO as they say.
Habbabkuk,
You are right, what the fuck am I thinking. “the poor sap”, yes, the anti-Arab propaganda producing MSM photo journalist for ‘The Sun’, Gavin Rodgers’ recent tweets are breaking my heart too.
After all, being a photo journalist and taking pictures must be very very tough emotionally, I’m just so glad he managed to force himself to do it – and still have the balls to jump in a police helicopter later in the day. I’m just a cold hearted bastard. I’m so ashamed.
However, on the upside he would have done very nicely from selling the pictures. In fact he left the country two days ago to go on holiday. Ibiza was mentioned on his Twitter, he does have the security clearance after all.
Now piss off you silly dick, you should be embarrassed – I hope you get the sack.
Anti-Arab propaganda producing MSM photo journalist for ‘The Sun’, Gavin Rodgers, tries his hand at written journalism. He appears to be pissed of that the Sunday Times is not accepting work from freelancers in Syria (what, like him?). He’s got such a sensitive bottom line.
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-tells-freelances-not-submit-photographs-syria
@Habbabkuk
‘Do you think you could draw the threads of your various posts together and tell us, in one comprehensive post of, let’s say, no more than one page, what really happened?’
Why on earth should he do something as stupid as that? He doesn’t know what happened and has said so. He’s asking questions about some seeming anomalies in the official narrative. Given that the attack was followed within hours by the appearance on Newsnight of a load of authoritarian right-wing blow-hards calling for greater surveillance of the Internet, it behoves any vigilant citizen to be wary. This is our freedom they are trying to take away, so Jesuit Atheist and others are perfectly entitled to ask such questions.
Or are you saying people are not allowed to be suspicious of Government narratives?
Thanks Res.Diss. It was like being savagely bitten by a toothless sheep. Good thing I got my rabies shots last week.
@Habbabkuk
‘Do you think you could draw the threads of your various posts together and tell us, in one comprehensive post of, let’s say, no more than one page, what really happened?’
Habba, how about you do the same? It won’t take you long to write one line.
@Jemand (4:08pm)
Which lamp-post did it hit? The incredible official account claims it hit one of two road-sign supporting poles, which are remarkably undamaged, perfect, true and pristine. Street furniture, lamp-poles and direction signs have long has been designed to fail or yield near the base in a controlled manner, barriers intended to screen pedestrians from traffic being one notable exception. This is mandated by EU law, only very old structures will not be compliant with these stringent requirements, but even many of them fail safely.
That many things are wrong with the account given by the likes of Cameron, Hague, May, even the very suspect John Reid, their minions and fellow cultists is hardly surprising, these people are scared war criminals, guilty as hell to whom lying comes naturally and instinctively, they are evading justice, fighting for their liberty, lives and plundered wealth. Nice company you keep; you are peddling disinformation along with these despicable creeps. That this incident was stage-managed by the security services does NOT require that there was no such soldier of that name who is now deceased or that the two patsies have the least clue what they’ve got mixed up in.
You’re simply setting up preposterous straw men, these sort of silly arguments have already been used on this thread, you’re not even original, it is very easy for you to ‘debunk’ a fantasy conspiracy all of your own tailored to just that circular end.
What the car hit, and how, its path, direction and speed, how it came to rest in its final position has not been explained. It might possibly have hit a bollard not shown in any picture, perhaps lodged under the car, there is a small spherical feature inset further from the line of intact bollards which may have been its mounting (the large circles are detached wheel trims), the bonnet of the car displays a characteristic impact shape with a distinct horizontal impression or cutoff consistent with hitting a low knee or thigh high article which resisted up to a point, then sheared. The car could not have negotiated its way into that space controllably, except at low speed, in which case the corpse if animate could simply have put the road sign posts between himself and the car or even hopped onto the low wall. Someone seems to have had time to place a desert dpm camo rucksack stood up neatly at the corner of the wall. There are too many unanswered questions and an inflexible offical narrative that simply does not account credibly for even the cherry-picked evidence shown.
Nosferatu.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331909/Former-head-MI5-calls-people-spy-neighbours-following-murder-soldier-Lee-Rigby.html
Res Dis;
Why have you suddenly taken up drive-by one-liners?
Anything substantive to declare?
Friends.
May I present a humble offering in honour of our Great One.
(Apologies to the ghost of STC)
……………………….
Kukla Bak
v. 1
In Surbiton did Kukla Bak a withering bloggattack dercee
From shed where unbeknown to by man an endless stream of drivel ran
A wonder of sophistry
And twice five hundred hapless men
On reading yawned an wondered when
Such tides of …… would ever cease.
Correction. Please ignore former attempt.
Kukla Bak
v.1
In Surbiton did Kukla Bak a withering bloggattack dercee
From shed where unbeknown to man an endless stream of drivel ran
A wonder of sophistry
And twice five hundred hapless men
On reading yawned an wondered when
Such tides would ever cease.
“The incredible official account claims it hit one of two road-sign supporting poles, which are remarkably undamaged, perfect, true and pristine. Street furniture, lamp-poles and direction signs have long has been designed to fail or yield near the base in a controlled manner, ”
The road sign is positioned a good distance from the road itself and protected by a row of bollards. It’s not in a position where any road planner would expect it to be struck by a car in an accident. Looking on Google street view it’s apparent that the sign is quite large and would need substantial supporting poles not just to take the weight but to resist the wind loading. I would suggest that making sure the sign was strong enough not to blow over and injure pedestrians would be more important than building in any weak points.
Car’s tend to ricochet and bounce around after an impact and it’s often difficult to tell what happened just by looking at the wrecks. There was a head on crash at a “pinch point” in the next village to me last year but both cars ended up facing in the same direction.
There was an old woman who swallowed a fly
Perhaps she’ll die, perhaps she’ll die
This blog world, you know, is an eye for an eye
To the moon up in heaven, I wish I could fly!
Think I’ll go now
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye…
……………
Sorry, it’s infectious.
No, I’m not Dutch – though I was there last week and witnessed the national mourning over Anouk’s 9th place at Eurovision.
Seems that TV humour there consists of simply linking – however hamfistedly – events outside Nederland with the national trauma of losing so badly.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4944640/Sick-Dutch-comedy-TV-sketch-mocks-Lee-Rigby-murder.html
Compare this with the worldwide reverence shown by foreign media when an even sicker Dutch comedian – Theo van Gogh (“What a smell of caramel today. Today the crematoriums burn only diabetic Jews”) – was – you will all surely remember – stabbed and hacked to death in the street by a Dutch-born Muslim.
This grotesque insensitivity is “typisch nederlands”, along with barefaced lying, and corporate fraud for which no one ever does jail time.
DISCLAIMER: some of my best friends are Dutch
If anyone wants to go on a gobsmacking google adventure, start here http://community.expatica.com/forums/topic/784/daniel-houghton-betrayed-by-the-aivd/view/page/1 and then go off and verify whatever you think I might have exaggerated. It’s a bit off-topic, but more fun than poring over photos looking for blood or missing thumbs.