Gently Back Into the Water

by craig on July 18, 2013 8:18 am in Uncategorized

I had excellent news from my cardiologist yesterday.  Ready to think about other things now.  I am horrified by the continuing stream of ” royal” baby hype on television.  Truly pathetic – is this 1313 or 2013?  Who buys into this nonsense?

I thought the Lib Dem take on Trident missiles was hilarious.  This small group of islands does apparently need to retain the ability to wipe out one third of the urban population of humankind, as a defence against something undefined – possibly people we invade getting too annoyed about it – and  in order to increase our “influence” in the World.  As we plainly have less influence than the Germans, who don’t feel this need for the power of obliteration, I do not quite see how this works.  Nor do I see Pakistan, which does have nuclear weapons, as very influential.  Nor do I quite understand how our influence can be increased by possessing something  under effective American control.  But there you are.

Anyway, the Lib Dems have come to the intellectually scintillating conclusion that we do need this world shattering power, but we don’t need it on Wednesday or Thursday afternoons or on Saturday mornings, which will be cheaper.  Brilliant, and plainly does not dodge any big ethical or practical questions at all.





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  1. Sorry to hear about your water supply difficulties Clark. You are experiencing much the same conditions that appertain in Gaza except the water table there is now saline as so many wells have been sunk in desperation.

    Now that the tunnels have been demolished the situation for supplies of everything needed to sustain life for 1.6 million people is dire.

    As Gaza heads for water crisis, desalination seen key

    The JP see the blockade as mainly affecting Hamas’s revenues and secondary to its humanitarian effect.

    Hamas reeling from Egyptian crackdown on Gaza tunnels


    I see on the Reuters site that Sir Menzie Campbell’s and others’ wish for Hezbollah to be declared a ‘terror’ organisation has been fulfilled by the EU.
    Breaking News: EU foreign ministers agree to put military wing of Hezbollah on EU terror list: diplomats

  2. [Mod/Jon: commentary upon other posters is discouraged, removed]

  3. @Flaming – I have no strong views about posting about the royal sprog, though I have some sympathy with the view that the MSM doesn’t need feeding on that particular “subject”. Dreoilin wasn’t having a go :)

    Whilst I gently prune the excess sideswipes upon your avatar with my electronic secateurs, if you could avoid returning those swipes, that’d be helpful. As ever, “freely discuss or ignore” is the best policy. And the summer-weight Kevlar coat, too.

  4. Oh dear. Germany’s indignant messages were false. They are up to their necks in it. The BND has been crawling up US arses for some time so it seems, helping the NSA and GCHQ, a succinct part of a greater……. now what do we call this sole drive towards a more homogeneous war on terror?

    Cooperating with the devil?

    do we have sympathies for devils?

  5. The secret links between BND and NSA. This sounds to be a cracking week, hot in every sense.

  6. Interesting tweet

    Why is Hezbollah on EU terror list but not Mossad? Mossad murder squad killed Hamas official in Dubai using stolen EU member state passports.

    From this guy

  7. John Wight – insight?

    Syria is now the frontline in a struggle between western powers intent on a unipolar world, and a Russian and Chinese-led multipolar alternative in which sovereignty is not a gift of Washington and its allies but the inviolable right of all nation states.

    Absolutely. Thanks Dreoilin.

  8. @Jon, please don’t feel you have to delete Mary’s swipes at me – being called ‘pathetic’ by Mary doesn’t bother me in the slightest!

    Nextus at 12:47 am – thanks ever so much for linking to that superb Galloway vs Hitchens debate. One of the best things I’ve watched in ages and thankfully no Jon to moderate it!

  9. “Sorry to hear about your water supply difficulties Clark. You are experiencing much the same conditions that appertain in Gaza”

    Dear Lord, is there anything that can’t be used to drag up Gaza?

  10. How can you have a “Russian and Chinese-led multipolar” alternative? Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? What makes you think Russia or China will respect people’s rights of sovereignty any more than the US? Chechnya, Xinjiang, Tibet? Why on earth would you want global hegemony to belong to a virtual dictatorship and a one-party state?

  11. Agent Cameron takes a walk in the park desperately trying to avoid the dog poo and bring the smell home on his English Oxfords .-
    +++++++++++BBC’s Andrew Marr Show.+++++++++

    Cameron scowls, “I think he[Assad] may be stronger than he was a few months ago but I’d still describe the situation as a stalemate,” he said. There was “appalling behavior from this dreadful regime[Syria] using chemical weapons,” Cameron demanded, admitting though that there also was “too much extremism amongst some of the rebels.”

    Agent Cameron babbled, “We’re not intervening by supplying weapons, but I think we can with partners… strengthen those parts of the Syrian opposition that really do represent the Syrian people,” [we’re working with fuckin’ terrorists like-minded countries[Quatar/Saudi] including those in the region, agent Cameron continued…

    Cameron inwardly ferments while ‘dirty rag’ cleansing revolving door modern folklore ‘ “Samantha went to a refugee camp in Lebanon because she wanted to see for herself. She does some work for Save the Children and was very moved by what she saw. You hear from people – and I’ve done this – who are fleeing an appalling regime that is murdering their husbands, wives, children, wrecking their communities.

    Hint to Samantha – BROWSE TO ‘Children of Iraq’ then SURF TO ‘Children of Conflict’ – Oh dear – the appalling regimes are surprisingly, Britain and America. We smash innocent countries, destroy all the hospitals and schools and then install puppet regimes to continue the mayhem, destruction and violence too boot.

    Tell me this Samantha Cameron, are you another Dr Barnardo aspiring Pharisee?

  12. I believe it was Komodo who posted a link to a site that verified that some 20 odd wells have been diverted and are now not serving Gaza.

    When Anon, who, not unlike Jeffrey Dahmer, proposed to kill Prrrt, then we have to see his comment above
    ‘ Dear Lord, is there anything that can’t be used to drag up Gaza?’

    in the context to his proposed actions. I’m sure Nextus would not refuse to have a field day with Anon, and maybe these two should vie for a date.

    Now when Flaming June made this comparison, I thought of a picture of African children drinking from a cattle trough, with the caption’ you think you are having a hard time’, which I saw some days earlier, and how apt it was.
    If the stream Clark uses would dry up, then the impact of that, in this weather would result in some very stressed and uncomfortable moments in days to come.

    So how do you, Anon, think 1.657 million plus would feel, having to live under this temperature almost every day? I suppose you would want to drive them into the sea for their cleanliness? or encourage to share the bath water like our parents did?

    Do tell us Anon, what are all these people going to drink?

  13. Apartheid on water too;

    Three million West Bank Palestinians use only 250 million cubic meters per year (83 cubic meters per Palestinian per year) while six million Israelis enjoy the use of 1,954 million cubic meters (333 cubic meters per Israeli per year), which means that each Israeli consumes as much water as four Palestinians. Israeli settlers are allocated 1,450 cubic meters of water per person per year.

  14. From the horses mouth;

    The Israeli regime had also warm ties with the apartheid regime and the man behind the concept and implementation of apartheid, former South African Premier Hendrik Verwoerd, once said “Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state”

  15. Thanks for underlining my point, Passerby.

    Potable water is the resource which is scarcest and the politics of water are one of the first to hit Palestinian villages and farms as they struggle to make ends meet.
    What happened in Gaza has happened in the west bank some time ago, it is official policy, something accepted by all political parties, as far as I know, please put me right if there is a chink of light in any of the mainstream parties on water equality.

    Keeping this water Apartheid in relation, Palestinian businesses get less and hence are economically disadvantaged, we all should deplore this appalling policy in a country known for its hot Temperatures.

    The need for water is a human right in my opinion, I know the CEO of TNC Nestle does not agree, it is not for anybody to apportion in equal measures, to use as they see fit to hold down other human beings, deprive them of enough water to clean themselves.

    That said, I used to do with a minimum when travelling on my Triumph in the early 1980’s, it takes no more than a mug full to get wet, and maybe two or three mugs to wash down the soap, wash, afterwards, so I have experienced what it means to use very little.

    I think if we deplore inequality we also deplore the appalling opulent and waste full use of water by others, the two are inextricable.

  16. Hi Nevermind,

    Forgive me, I had to look up Jeffrey Dahmer. According to Wikipedia,

    Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer (May 21, 1960 – November 28, 1994) was an American serial killer and sex offender, also known as the Milwaukee Cannibal who committed the rape, murder and dismemberment of 17 men and boys between 1978 and 1991, with many of his later murders also involving necrophilia and cannibalism.

    Why, thanks for the comparison, Nevermind!

    Something needed to be done to break the toe-curling faux concern about little Prrt. I’m sorry my joke was not to everyone’s taste, but it really wasn’t any worse than a throaway line from a Frankie Boyle routine. Of course I wish little Prrt no harm, and I hope s/he has found a good companion in you and that s/he will enjoy the late-night conversations about waste recycling in Norfolk and the burning bodies of Dresden.

    Now, you appear to take my insincere joke about Prrt to mean I would like to see the entire population of Gaza die of thirst, or be driven into the sea. It is this kind of hysterical assumption that turns people away from the Palestinian solidarity movements. Certainly, those I have met from inside these organizations, at universities and elsewhere, area uniformly obsessional, humourless, angry and utterly fixated on Israel to the extent that you wonder whether “humanitarian” concern really is their priority, as they like to claim. Needless to say, it is a political cause and the suffering of Palestinians is a stick with which to beat Israel. They are used by the likes of you as a tool, that is all.

    For what it’s worth – and I don’t like to have to say this – I regularly donate to charities in India and Pakistan which deal with water contamination among other problems. I’m sorry I haven’t yet got round to helping the people of Gaza by posting the 412th comment on a Craig Murray blog, but I’m sure it makes all the difference and you feel much better about yourself.

  17. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 1:52 pm

    re cubic metres of water available to the people of Gaza, etc :

    Do feel free to throw buckets of shit over me after reading, but the following thought occcurs to me:

    unpleasant as living conditions in Gaza surely are – and severely curtailed as various opportunities (education, health, infant mortality,economic life, etc) are, not least through the actions of Israel – I’m not entirely certain that calling Gaza a living hell or the world’s greatest concentration camp isn’t over-the-top selection.

    Is life for millions in the Brazilian favelas or many Indian and African megalopolises like Bombay, Calcutta, Nairobi, Johannesburg, etc any better? I put the question not to excuse or justify the Gaza situation but solely to try and gain some perspective.

    I may of course be wrong and it would be good if someone could supply some figures and statistics, eg from UN agencies, to validate or refute this thought.

  18. Re water – a deafening silence from the resident DIYs assigned to police this blog, or is Villager desperately looking for a Krishnamurphian explanation of the disharmony between the israeli mind and its actions that do not wash!!? Perhaps Anon (Giles) can tell us more about water usage statistics and bantustani apartheid genocidal tactics there, as he seems to knows where all the mossad offices are. The DIY manuals were written by an ex-South African immigrant it appears.

  19. Percapita useage in the UK is 45-100 cubic metres per year so the Palestinians are hardly dying of thirst and by that yardstick the 333 cubic metres used by each Israeli seems excessive unless they all take three or four baths a day. Are we sure that figure doesn’t include water used by Israel’s larger agriculture and industry?

  20. Thanks Anon for clarifying, Jeffrey Dahmer was a bit harsh I admit, but I did take affront to your suggestion because somebody else had the same idea.

    Water is a real issue which should not be in the political, but the human roam, its political use reviles most and more than any esoteric talk of faith or believe, it is what makes us alive, we are water and we need it, a lifelong need for all of us. So there should be equal water for all.

    I’m glad you are a charitable soul, it is very commendable and apparently cleanses the soul, some say, suppose that’s why you have mentioned the Dresden Fire storm and recycling in Norfolk, a purely charitable comment. I still say that FJ’s comparison was apt and what do you know of recycling in Norfolk?

    If we think that oil is what gets us all going, wait until the aquifers are starting to dry up from overuse, whatever politics, money or religion, masses will be on the move without water, until they find some.

    Those Scotsmen who claim to have lived of whiskey alone are telling tales…;)

  21. Well every other message board seems to be having a guess the sex/name/weight of the royal baby poll, I thought it would be more appropriate here if we had a poll on which will be the first royal baby conspiracy theory out of the traps:-

    1. It’s a lizard

    2. It’s an alien

    3. There is no baby. Kate’s been walking around with a cushion under her coat waiting for a suitable baby to be kidnapped from an NHS maternity ward. This is necessary to cover up William’s impotence/the fact that he’s a lizard and continue the royal blood line.

    4. It’s black

    5. It bears a suspicious resemblance to Boris Johnson

    6. All of the above

  22. What a shallow blog, red tops eat your heart out, we can also bore the pants of ourselves…..

    All about waters breaking at St. Mary’s, hardly any water for Gaza, not enough water for Wales hill dwellers, due to plumbing, what a sunny dry watery day we’re all having.

    such fun

  23. Dear all,observe the sync of the sayanim singalong above aka “The Israeli narrative”, would put the miss-stepping five dancing israelis in the NY car park to shame!! Only the bass from Villager is missing otherwise the esayanim ensemble is in fine fettle, almost wish I could add to their annual $2,000 stipend!!

  24. Thalif Deen makes the point for Gaza in 2012, apologise for not being up to date.

  25. Kempe, it’s a zionist false-flag op to distract the world’s attention from Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians, obviously!

  26. Bah, Jon if you are unable to mod the tag team, let me say it to these DIYers, yer yarmulkers are all see through, you are fooling no one, please take your narrative to Debka or HuffPo !

  27. “Access to safe water is a fundamental human need & therefore a basic human right.”

    Kofi Anan

    Everything is being done, to make life in Gaza impossible. Gaza remains Worlds Largest open Air prison, an israel an an occupier, even neglects rights of the “concentrationcamp”-people they are lawfully to respect, as per International and Humanitairian laws is obligated to even as an occupying force.

    Only a ziofuckwit can engage in “What about”, “So, the others do too”, to deny the facts and realities

  28. Passer
    Some people are above the law. Some people are beneath it.

    Muslims are not protected by laws. As is often said, “the law isn’t there to protect terrorists”.
    Zionists are above the law.
    Laws may apply to everyone else, but not to them.

    Remember what happened this very day, many years ago? 22nd July 1946?

    1946-Jewish terrorists bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem which was the headquarters of the British civil and military administration, killing
    91. No warning was ever given! Jews serving in the British army played a major role in the bombing and boasted about their role in this insidious act years later!

    Why are the Jews in the British army able to boast about what they did without being arrested for it?

    They are able to kill Palestinians because Palestinians are beneath the law.
    The reason why serving jewish British soldiers were able to kill other British soldiers and civilians, and be so confident in being above the law they are able to freely boast about what they did, is they are above the law.

    The Conservative Friends of Israel, The Labour Friends of Israel and the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel would never allow, them to be investigated, let alone prosecuted. Israel has bought enouth Friends of Israel in all three parties to have all the control they need.

  29. Nobody is denying the facts and the reality, Passerby, though “concentration camp” is probably pushing it a little. I would like to know, why do you never post on, say, India’s theft of water alloted to Pakistan on its way from the Indian Himalaya to the Indus basin, on which millions of Pakistani farmers are reliant?

  30. Arsalan, some people will have to die out before the pasts crimes and violations of principles that allowed this UN protectorate Israel to be established, by means of a series of violent land grabs and without consideration given to the existing majority population, then Arab.

    I’m a realist and rather see the equation in Palestine change first, because the food situation is getting worse everywhere, especially in Gaza, but poverty exists everywhere, including in prosperous Shanghai, poverty is the trademark of our current politi of greed, so this issue came up and rightly so.

    And as it so happens, today Tesco’s CEO announced that the age of cheap food is well behind us, that prices will rise, as commodities do.

    But today is not about that is it? its about water….

  31. Flaming June

    22 Jul, 2013 - 4:14 pm

    More on Dr Kelly’s death by Andrew Gilligan in yesterday’s Telegraph in which room is given to Blair. It is a description of layers of bullshit sandwiched between evil. Part of the problem is that Gilligan is a member of the corporate media, commonly known as the MSM. (A friend of mine did not know what that acronym meant). It does not mention the dozens of facts/lies/omissions which make suicide unlikely.

    The betrayal of Dr David Kelly, 10 years on
    Andrew Gilligan, the journalist at the centre of the ‘dodgy dossier’ row, reflects on the shocking facts that have emerged since Dr David Kelly’s death

  32. Flaming June

    22 Jul, 2013 - 4:31 pm

    What cheap food Mr Clarke @ Tesco? A few years back, if you bought 20 items in a supermarket, you could estimate that the cost would be about £20. Now 20 items cost + £30.

    The Tesco Seventeen

    Mr Clarke did not take his bonus but he still took £1.6m in salary.

    Two retiring directors went with £3m between them.


  33. The war crime that keeps on giving …

    “More than a decade after US led forces invaded Iraq – there is a legacy of horrific birth defects. Scientists blame the weapons used by the US military. Fallujah is the best known example, the number affected there is 14 times higher than in Hiroshima after an atomic bomb was dropped on it in the Second World War. – See more at:

  34. @Kempe: Ha ha, yes! I’ll go for theories 1 and 5 please.

    @Hasbarista: I don’t think dancing Israelis offers, um, an explanation for everything – not least because the Palestinian situation was also very difficult prior to 9/11. As has been mentioned quite a bit here, yes the situation in Palestine/Gaza is dreadful, but what to do about the deadlock given the political realities on the ground is complex. Views on what to do, of course, are always welcome. My acid test is: if you were leading an international conference on the subject, what would your speech contain?

    By the way, I wrote a lengthy reply to you yesterday (21 July 12:05pm) – I should be interested to hear what you think.

  35. Anon

    I agree with passer that gaza, not just gaza but also the strips of isolated land in the westbank that the palestinians are cramed in to are concentration camps.

    if we look at how wiki defines concentration camp, and we look at gaza and the isolated strips in the west bank wehere palestinians are cramed in.
    They match.

    When we use the term, Zionists like to scream, “it’s our word, how dare anyone but us use it!”
    But that is just a tactic, they have been using for so long, it is wearing out.
    Instead of using the word concentration camp, Zionists would like us to use the word, “5 star hotel” for Gaza. When there was starvation there, and the Zionists togeather with their Egyption slaves blokaded all the people in, and they bombarded it with white phosperous, burniing people alive from the inside out, while starving them.
    5 Star hotel was exactly the words Zionists used, when asked about the people starving there. They even gave an example of a menu from a hotel there, which had beef of the printed on the menu. Whether the hotel or anywhere else in gaza had food or not is another matter. But the fact that food was printed on the menu, means the people in gaza ate high up on the food chain.

  36. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 7:17 pm

    Hi Clark; You’re not on the baby watch?

    Nevermind; When people ask for advice, they don’t want you to talk. They want to do the talking.

    But Gibran is right. It seems the human brain primarily functions as a platform for justifying what we’ve already decided to do.

  37. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 7:22 pm

    re Gaza water/”concentration camp”, etc, etc…:

    Well, as I rather suspected, an embarrassed silence from the Eminences in the face of my thought, posted at 13h52, on whether (as an example) millions of people living in the Brazilian favelas and the huge cities of India and some African countries aren’t rather worse off than the inhabitants of Gaza.

    The only substantive response came from Kempe (who is, of course, not one of the Eminences), who told us that annual per capita water consumption in the UK is between 45-100 cubic metres – which puts the idea of the Gazans being starved of water into proper perspective. Kempe is also right to speculate that the higher per capita Israeli water consumption is probably due to the well-developed Israeli agricultural industry (most of their production is of high-water-use products, eg fruit and vegetables.

    Would someone like to furnish comparative figures (say from various UN agencies) on indicators such as schooling/literacy, infant mortality, per capita GNP, govt spending on health care, etc, etc, between Gaza and, say, Brazil, India, Pakistan, Kenya, South Africa, and any other African state you might like to throw in? Come on now, don’t be shy!

    Now I’m posting, I might as well pick up on two other comments made on or around this theme.

    1/.@ Arsalan : could we please have sources for your claim that “Zionists” have called Gaza a “5 star hotel”? By sources I mean of course people of organisations habilitated to speak for the Israeli govt, and not either anti-Israel websites or individual “Zionists” speaking in a personal capacity. Thank you in advance!

    2/. Passerby should not speak about the duties and obligations of “occupying powers” in relation to Israel and Gaza, as it may have escaped his attention that the Israeli occupation of Gaza ended several years ago.

  38. James Corbett, in an episode that plays with some of those Islamist/Secularist/Statist discussions we’ve had here recently:

  39. Patrick Foy looks at the revived Palestinian peace talks, and why that September UN meeting matters:

  40. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 7:31 pm

    @ Flaming June (16h31)

    “What cheap food Mr Clarke @ Tesco? A few years back, if you bought 20 items in a supermarket, you could estimate that the cost would be about £20. Now 20 items cost + £30.”

    Meaningless without more information : which items? A basket of goods? If so, could you please let us have the contents of the basket or provide a source?

    You do provide a couple of sources, but they seem to refer to the Tesco board and the salaries paid to them. Perhaps you have adduced directors’ salaries as an explanation for your clailm that £20 has become £30. To put those salaries into perspective, could you please give us the figure for Tesco’s annual turnover in the UK?

    Many thanks and I look forward with pleasure to continuing the discussion on this important matter you’ve seen fit to raise.

  41. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 7:37 pm

    See? More scatatological inquiries into the number of flea turds in rat scat. So helpful and playful !

    What would we do without meaningful forays into the realm of verbose minutiae ?

  42. Habby above @7.22pm states that:

    “the Israeli occupation of Gaza ended several years ago.”

    Given the breathtaking dishonesty of that statement is it even worth asking the poster to substantiate it.

  43. An extract from “Knowledge and the Transformation of Man
    San Diego 1974 Conversation with Dr. Allan W. Anderson”

    “K: I can’t tell you what I feel when I go round the world. The pettiness, the shallowness, the emptiness of all this, of the so-called western civilisation, if I may use that word; into which the eastern civilisation is being dragged. And we are just scratching on the surface all the time. And we think the mere change on the surface – change in the structure is going to do something enormous to human beings. On the contrary it has done nothing. It polishes a little bit here and there but deeply fundamentally it does not change man. So, when we are discussing change we must be, I think, fairly clear that we mean the change in the psyche, in the very being of human beings. That is, in the very structure and nature of his thought.

    A: The change at the root.

    K: At the root – yes.

    A: At the root itself.

    K: At the root. And therefore when there is that change he will naturally bring about a change in society. It isn’t society first, or individual first, it is the human change which will transform the society. They are not two separate things.
    K: That’s right. After all human beings have created this society. By their greed, by their anger, by their violence, by their brutality, by their pettiness, they have created this society.

    A: Precisely.

    K: And they think by changing the structure you are going to change the human being. This has been the communist problem, this has been the eternal problem: that is change the environment then you change man. They have tried that in ten different ways and they haven’t done it, succeeded in changing man. On the contrary man conquers the environment as such.

    So, if we are clear that the outer is the inner – the inner is the outer, that there is not the division, the society and the individual, the collective and the separate human being, but the human being is the whole, he is the society, he is the separate human individual, he is the factor which brings about this chaos.”

  44. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 7:55 pm

    “The internal document shows Pakistani officials too found that CIA drone strikes were killing a significant number of civilians – and have been aware of those deaths for many years.

    Of 746 people listed as killed in the drone strikes outlined in the document, at least 147 of the dead are clearly stated to be civilian victims, 94 of those are said to be children.”

  45. @Jon – I don’t know why you are trying to engage with someone who talks of awarding “row-advances to the front of the cattle car”.

    @Arsalan – I suppose one has to actually visit Gaza in order to know whether or not it resembles a concentration camp. From pro-Israel sites we see pictures of thriving markets crammed with produce, luxury apartments and fast cars. From pro-Palestinian sites we see pictures of children huddled up against iron bars topped with razor wire, arms outstretched. Even from those who have visited Gaza, we have conflicting accounts of what life is like there. Both sides have interest in making the situation look as good/bad as possible.

    “Instead of using the word concentration camp, Zionists would like us to use the word, “5 star hotel” for Gaza.”

    It is neither.

    Certainly, as you observe, when Gaza was bombarded during Cast Lead, then life there must have been grim. Daily life I should imagine is mostly routine. I haven’t seen any evidence that Gaza resembles a concentration camp, although the term ‘concentration camp’ is open to various definitions.

    What you are doing here by claiming Gaza as a ‘concentration camp’ is using a term widely associated with and invoking the memory of Jewish suffering under the Nazis to accuse Jews of meting out the same kind of treatment that was inflicted on them during WW2. Ditto “ghettos”. It’s deliberately provocative wordplay. However bad the situation is in Gaza, it is not the same as the situation of the Jews in Nazi-occupied territories.

    Interestingly, you don’t want Jews to possess ownership of the term, but at the same time you want to make full capital out of its association with Jews. I have to say, Arsalan, there’s really no difference between you and a rabid Zionist.

  46. Oh my, I see Habbabkuk is wearing Anon’s shades at
    22 Jul, 2013 – 7:31 pm AND 7:22 pm

    Fancied a change of email address, Habbabkuk? Why?

  47. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 8:15 pm

  48. Flaming June

    22 Jul, 2013 - 8:37 pm

    Per Capita Consumption of water 2006/7 England and Wales. First figure is for unmetered households and second is for metered households.

    Table 2: PCC (l/h/d) for unmetered and metered households as submitted by the various water companies in England and Wales for 2006-07 (from Ofwat, 2007b)

    [Mod: Removed large chunk of copy and paste stats, see link]


    Evan Davis on Bottom Line.

    ‘Water is the world’s most precious resource. It’s also big business. As climate changes and populations shift, getting water where it needs to be is a huge global challenge, and that’s without the added problem of leakage. Just how much should consumers pay for something that none of us can live without? Evan Davis and guests discuss an industry which has changed almost beyond recognition in just a few decades – from state-owned water providers to international business players.’

    Little depth. No explanation was given for the huge rise in our water bills. The contributors were:
    Peter Simpson, CEO Anglian Water
    Bryan Harvey, Vice President CH2M HILL
    Olivier Bret, CEO Veolia Water UK

    The consumer was not represented.

    The Anglian Water customers’ water consumption was given as 100-150 litres per day per person
    Czech water consumption was given as 100 litres per day per person.

    The water companies’ leakage figures in this country were staggering. 23% – 25%. 24 minutes.

  49. Ben, with respect, i think what Habby is highlighting is the pettiness, and inherent laziness, and ultimately the meaningless of the original comment. And therefore the quality of posts counts and is the responsibility of each one of us.

    Here’s one from the hippy-villager!

    George Harrison & Paul Simon – Here Comes The Sun

    Though what we need now is the rainbow…..and to share LOVE. One of the most touching songs ever

  50. doug scorgie

    22 Jul, 2013 - 8:48 pm

    22 Jul, 2013 – 2:10 pm

    “Percapita useage [sic] in the UK is 45-100 cubic metres per year”

    Can you supply a source for your above figures? I’d like to check it out.

  51. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 8:52 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    “Oh my, I see Habbabkuk is wearing Anon’s shades at
    22 Jul, 2013 – 7:31 pm AND 7:22 pm”

    Most upset that you haven’t noticed that I was already wearing them yesterday!

    I think they give me that rather natty look. If I could add a trilby, I would! :)

  52. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 9:01 pm

    George with other distinguished company, Villager. Conspicuously absent, Ray Orbison who had recorded, but was deceased as of the video (when his solo comes up they pan to a still photo)

  53. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 9:05 pm

    [Mod: bickering, deleted]

  54. [Mod: bickering, deleted]

  55. Wow Ben that’s some video — THANK YOU!

    Of course i’ve heard the Travelling Wilbury’s before but this is the first video. How the fuck is the world still in such a dark place when there are angels like that around. Just shows how much ignorance there is in the world. I could weep. Please do listen to that K dialogue Ben.

    Have a great evening!

  56. Warsaw ghetto did not look like a concentration camp either, as in the Nazi photographs show a normal part of Warsaw!

    Sick of these ziofuckwits excusing the barbaric bastards conduct in zionistan and ordering all and sundry to start talking on other subject and leave poor ziofuckwtis to get on with land stealing, water theft, mass detention, war crimes, and genocide of the Palestinians.

    List of Arab towns and villages raized

    Oh why debate zionistan?

    Talk about something else!

  57. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 9:22 pm

    [Mod: bickering, deleted]

  58. [Mod: bickering, deleted]

  59. It’s a boy!!!

  60. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 9:41 pm

    [Mod: bickering, deleted two items. If you wish to obtain figures or statistics for this, that, or the other thing, please supply them yourself, rather than challenging various individuals to fetch them for you]

  61. Flaming June

    22 Jul, 2013 - 9:45 pm

    [Mod: bickering, deleted two items]

  62. [Mod: bickering, deleted]

  63. Thanks Richard.

    A boy, that’s news now can we all calm down and get on with what we ‘should’ do best:

    Raise our children, create a safer and better world and most of all.

    Apply some common sense and decency!

  64. [Mod: bickering, deleted]

  65. Flaming June

    22 Jul, 2013 - 9:56 pm

    I don’t think that those heartless people who are jeering on the sidelines here have ever been to Gaza as I did following Cast Lead. Living conditions were terrible, either in the rubble or whole families in a tent with the mothers trying to cook food on a small burner.

    This is the state of the water supply. March 2013.

    ‘The water is heavily polluted by nitrates and salts. The upper limit of nitrates and salt per liter of water is 250 mg and 50 mg respectively, while in some areas in Gaza the nitrate and salt is up to eight times as much. This is especially the case in the northern areas, where water is polluted by nitrates, while in the south, pollution comes from salt.

    Shabat attributed the decreasing water to growing population and scarce rainfall, as well as wells dug by Israel along the northern and eastern borders of Gaza to pump water into its territories.

    Gazans complain of irregular water supplies and the extreme salinity of fresh water due to the seawater intrusion that destroys aquifers in some areas, making their contents unfit for human consumption. Gazans often have to buy treated water from distributors instead.

    According to Itimad Nasrallah, a housewife living in the Rimal neighborhood in Gaza City, the water cannot be consumed or used for domestic purposes other than flushing the toilet or cleaning the floor.

    You should try drinking it.

  66. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 9:57 pm

    [Mod: bickering, deleted]

  67. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:03 pm

    And where do you think Africans in the favelas of Nairobi get their water from? Their Franke stainless steel kitchen sink? And they don’t cook with natural gas or electricity either.

    We are not jeering at those poor souls by the way (whether in Gaza or Nairobi), just responding to those posters who use language like “concentration camps” and conveniently forget that millions of people in the world live in worse conditions than the Gazans.

  68. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:05 pm

    I frequently find people on FB that ‘Like’ their own comments. I find that somewhat humorous.

  69. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:07 pm

    How does one eradicate bed-bugs? Is it better just to learn to live with them, or does anyone have some successful story about fumigation?

  70. We're going to put them on a diet

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:07 pm

    It’s not a concentration camp, you savage jew-dunking antisemite pogrommers, it’s an extermination camp!11!

    Look it up, Rome Statute Article 7(2b), ‘”Extermination” includes the intentional infliction of conditions of life, inter alia the deprivation of access to food and medicine, calculated to bring about the destruction of part of a population’

  71. @ Craig,

    “I thought the Lib Dem take on Trident missiles was hilarious. This small group of islands does apparently need to retain the ability to wipe out one third of the urban population of humankind, as a defence against something undefined – possibly people we invade getting too annoyed about it – and in order to increase our “influence” in the World. As we plainly have less influence than the Germans, who don’t feel this need for the power of obliteration, I do not quite see how this works. Nor do I see Pakistan, which does have nuclear weapons, as very influential. Nor do I quite understand how our influence can be increased by possessing something under effective American control.”

    So – who ever said that foreign policy or party political policy towards foreign policy had to make sense?
    But – there you are.

  72. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:11 pm

    re Krishnamurti Brickwood Park School

    From you-know-whom, this :

    “The staff are rather a mixed bunch too.”

    Do I detect a snarky note of disapproval?

    The staff appears to be rich in diversity and well qualified but academically and otherwise.

    But I may of course have missed something. If so, what?

  73. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:12 pm

    oh dear! Brockwood!

  74. I frequently find people on FB that ‘Like’ their own comments. I find that somewhat humorous.

    Any old hand on the net would know the tactics, in all probability it is one and the same keyboard warrior, peppering the thread with nonsense, and answering itself, or fighting itself dependent on the situation.

    Any time there is anything that is deemed threatening to the cause of the warriors, soon after the torrent of nonsense is poured in the hope that others will skip the offending comment.

    It is comical, I have a good laugh at the bollocksy exchanges, patting each other on the back.

    Mod you deleted my observations (I was not bickering), just because you could not face another round of: “blogs objectivity going to pot, and the proletariat have taken over the palaces of mighty and are breaking wind, what sort of war did we fight to get here?”.

    Come clean and fess up!:)

  75. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:20 pm

    @ JON/Mod

    You have gone over the line this time….

    What you call bickering was me backing up figures supplied by Kempe for UK annual water consumption – with the objective of showing that the Gazans don’t do too badly in comparison when it comes to water use.

    You have deliberately suppressed objective data which exposed the falsehood of some posts from the anti-Israel brigade and attempted to establish a sense of proportion.

    This is serious and shows that you are not impartial.

    Either reinstate those posts of mine or I shall get in touch with Craig.

  76. Mary/Habbabkuk/Anon/Villager – this board will become useless for everyone else unless you post with less snark – I have removed a flood of nonsense just now. I am quite happy to carry on deleting, so please just debate with some civility.

    During this past week, we’ve held debate with religious and non-religious supporters of Islamic fundamentalism, and I think discussion may be pending with Hasbarista, who is normally prone to making statements here that are deleted for their anti-Jewish content. These debates are important, and I invite you to join in.

  77. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:32 pm

    Jon; Despite protests to the contrary ( in which we need to examine context wrt same) my considered opinion is that your approach is more than objective. By MORE than objective, i mean you are bending backward to assure objectivity. The miscreants which disabuse the notion that you are being selective in your moderation. That’s bunk, and they know it. This is the way conservatives who normally disabuse those of a more liberal bent, conflate the war for topline informational discourse. You have been more than fair to the disruptors, and there is no other way to describe them. It’s not a free speech issue when the arguments are nothing but argumentative.

  78. “Most upset that you haven’t noticed that I was already wearing them yesterday!”

    I haven’t been paying much attention to this page or the previous one, Habbab. It’s scrappy and unfocussed. And not going anywhere that I can see.
    I hope Jon at 10.21pm is right.

  79. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:41 pm

    @ Jon/MOD

    You have the insolence to delete factual posts of mine for “bickering” but are happy to leave stuff like this :

    “Sick of these ziofuckwits excusing the barbaric bastards conduct in zionistan and ordering all and sundry to start talking on other subject and leave poor ziofuckwtis to get on with land stealing, water theft, mass detention, war crimes, and genocide of the Palestinians.” (from Fedup)

    or these two from the American sage “Ben Franklin” :

    “See? More scatatological inquiries into the number of flea turds in rat scat. So helpful and playful !”


    “How does one eradicate bed-bugs? Is it better just to learn to live with them, or does anyone have some successful story about fumigation?”

    You are not fit for purpose.

  80. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 10:43 pm

    American ‘sage’ i’ll learn to live with that derogation.

  81. “Hasbarista
    22 Jul, 2013 – 2:24 pm
    Dear all,observe the sync of the sayanim singalong above aka “The Israeli narrative”, would put the miss-stepping five dancing israelis in the NY car park to shame!! Only the bass from Villager is missing otherwise the esayanim ensemble is in fine fettle, almost wish I could add to their annual $2,000 stipend!!”

    Jon: “During this past week, we’ve held debate with religious and non-religious supporters of Islamic fundamentalism, and I think discussion may be pending with Hasbarista, who is normally prone to making statements here that are deleted for their anti-Jewish content. These debates are important, and I invite you to join in.”

    Dear Jon,
    Thank you, but no thank you for your invite to join in. As you can see above i have a prior invitation which i chose to ignore.

    You are losing the plot and throwing the baby out with the bath water, e.g. Habby’s very valid point about computations and Gazan water. Also, by the time you finish there won’t be any humour left either, e.g. my point to Mary about water-boarding.

    Everything was going fine until Mary started getting all excited and emotional, egotistic reactions which personally to me were water off a duck’s back, and i would’ve ignored. But you CHOSE to overreact and go snipping all over the place. Keep telling you that the pendulum is swinging the other way but for some reason you won’t listen to your customers preferring to believe you know what is right. Reflect and take it easy!


    PS how did you miss Hasbaristas earlier post above or do you usually wait for our ‘heart and soul of blog’ Mary to appeal to you first? Why not give her a chance to grow up in grace, learning to ignore on occasion?

  82. debate with religious and non-religious supporters of Islamic fundamentalism

    1- Can we use Islamic orthodoxies and Islamic ultra orthodoxies instead of fundamentalism that is a retrogressive label freely thrown around, change must start from somewhere.

    2- My contention is only the Political Islam can offer organic solutions to the endemic/systemic problems of the swaths of indigenous people who have little say in the way of self determination. This due to the West evidently bombing the civilised/Christian into the lives/minds/hearts of these savages/fundamentalists/Islam-ists.

    3- There is a singular failure to acknowledge the same bunch of fuckwits and tosspots who made the fight against Communism a mission objective and got on with murdering millions of people due to the domino effects, are now busy fomenting another mission statement; fighting the Islam-ists and Fundamentalists.

    4- To foist alien theories of organisations and political schools of thought on the people who have been subject to exploitation of the Western Plutocrats and their proxies set up as the local leadership characters, and call it concern and liberalism is beneath contempt.

  83. Good to see you blogging again Craig and glad you’ve recovered

  84. “And where do you think Africans in the favelas of Nairobi get their water from? Their Franke stainless steel kitchen sink? And they don’t cook with natural gas or electricity either.”

    Yes, Gaza isn’t the only place in the world with a water shortage, just the only place in the world with a water shortage while their next door neighbours have swimming pools in their gardens.

  85. ROFL

    I am having a hoot here!!!

    Jon Now that your “Insolence”, questionable “Impartiality”, and “crossing the line” has come to light, I hope you will go and find a couple of ostrich feathers and beat yourself silly and then write a hundred lines of “I am a bad, bad, bad, mod” (I cannot write for the laughter)

    Well this is the reward for being patient and not blocking these characters, these cyber settlers verily believe they actually have a right to this blog, and can fuck around without getting pulled on it.

    Now these cretins are still having a dig whilst addressing you, intent to complain to Craig.


    American ‘sage’ i’ll learn to live with that derogation.

    Now that you are damaged for life, after a pretentious tosspots derogation, how long do you have to lie on the analysis couch before you can muster enough will to make a cup of tea and dunk a biscuit again?


    ziofuckwit, It is not Palestine to force people to genuflect to your imperatives, you don’t like it fucking tough, “get over it”!

  86. These critics here whining about Jon clipping the more insane and diversionary of their output might do well to reflect that their very existence here is testament to Jon’s perhaps overly balanced approach. That doesn’t mean that Jon is always correct, but it does mean that Jon is always srtriving to do the correct thing in the circumstances. And that honesty and diligence is so important, yet something I find signally lacking in most of these critics.

    I thought the appeal to Craig was amusing.

    I’d like to appeal to Craig that the fecker and its variants and hangers-on be banned forthwith, for crimes against the free flow of human discourse.

  87. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jul, 2013 - 11:57 pm

    Fred :

    “Yes, Gaza isn’t the only place in the world with a water shortage, just the only place in the world with a water shortage while their next door neighbours have swimming pools in their gardens.”

    If that’s what you think, I advise you to visit Nairobi or Johannesburg (I’m using ‘neighbours’ in the same loose sense as you are).

    And you haven’t been paying attention. Kempe has demonstrated (with some computational input from me – deleted by Jon) that Palestinian per caput annual water consumption (83m³) compares very favorably with that of the UK (range of 45m³ to 100m³ depending on region).


    Further information on the “concentration camps” of Gaza and the West Bank (thank you, Jon, I’ve followed your advice and looked them up myself so you have no excuse to delete – more available of you like):

    Infant mortality (deaths/1000 live births)

    Gaza – 16
    Brazil – 19,83
    South Africa – 42,15
    Kenya – 42,18
    India – 44,6


    (1) Youth literacy rate 15-24 yrs, 2005-2010

    West Bank – 99%
    Brazil – 98%
    South Africa – 98%
    Kenya – 93%
    India – 81%

    (2) Adult literacy rate 15 yrs and older, 2005-2010

    West Bank – 95%
    Brazil – 90%
    South Africa – 89%
    Kenya – 87%
    India – 63%

    And this understates my original point, which was a comparison of the “concentration camps” with the favellas of Brazil and their equivalents in India and Africa.

    So let us have lesss of this stupid talk about “concentration camps”, shall we?

  88. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jul, 2013 - 12:08 am

    @ Ben Franklin :

    “American ‘sage’ i’ll learn to live with that derogation.”

    I think the illustrious American whose name you use mastered the English language rather better than you seem to: “Live with that DEROGATION”? :)

    Try “derogatory” followed by an appropriate noun.

    Alternatively, smoke a milder weed.

  89. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jul, 2013 - 12:15 am

    der·o·gate (dr-gt)
    v. der·o·gat·ed, der·o·gat·ing, der·o·gates
    1. To take away; detract: an error that will derogate from your reputation.
    2. To deviate from a standard or expectation; go astray.
    To disparage; belittle. See Synonyms at decry.
    [Middle English derogaten, from Latin drogre, drogt- : d-, de- + rogre, to ask; see reg- in Indo-European roots.]

    {dero·gation n.}

    Sage is an herb used as incense in Native American ritual. It is noxious and not meant to be smoked.

  90. “totally shocked at the Guardian”

    “totally shocked at the Guardian”

    I’m not.

  91. Wow! Post-o-mania! Somebody really got under habbakuks skin!

    Love to be a fly on the wall when they wheel the first Likudnik genocidaires into the Hague with blankets on their knees, wobbling their heads around to look extra pathetic and Gustav-Kruppy for the aw-shucks clemency play.

  92. This one for Jon – in the bag!

    Telegraph Road – Mark Knopfler – Live 2005

  93. Mossad Bender

    23 Jul, 2013 - 12:34 am

  94. They’re still trying to keep the lid on the bungled false flag attack on the U.S. compound in Benghazi which resulted in the deaths of four Americans, but the story refuses to go away. Hilary Clinton and her presidential election team must up their Prozac intake with every news bulletin.

    “The CIA “repeatedly blocked” the departure of a security team that was ready “within minutes” to respond to the Sept. 11, 2012, terror attacks in Benghazi, Libya that claimed the lives of four Americans, according to Rep. Frank Wolf (R., Va.)”

  95. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jul, 2013 - 12:47 am

    Benghazi was an FU from CIA to Obama. But he lacks the fortitude to inquire, A Node.

  96. Ben,
    I favour the theory that it was intended to have been a popularity raiser for Obama. Some Libyan agents were to ‘attack’ the embassy and take Stevens and staff ‘hostage’ and Obama would mastermind a daring ‘rescue’. However, the anti-American feeling in Benghazi led to a real mob joining in the attack …. oops!
    But whatever the explanation, there can be no doubt it was skulduggery, there’s a cover-up, and Hillary is in it up to her presidential candidatorial neck.

  97. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!) 22 Jul, 2013 – 8:52 pm

    “I think [the dark glasses] give me that rather natty look. If I could add a trilby, I would!”

  98. What they’re covering up is Paula Broadwell’s intently-ignored pillow talk report that the Benghazi site housed disappeared prisoners. You’d think someone in the press would pick up on that, since disappearance is a per se violation of the Convention Against Torture, on Obama’s watch, revealed just in time for a quadrennial review by the Convention against Torture. So not only is Obama looking-forward-not-back in breach of CAT Article 12; Obama is in fact maintaining a worldwide US torture gulag constituting a crime against humanity in universal jurisdiction. CIA put him neck-deep in the same jeopardy as Bush to make sure he doesn’t rat them out when he retires.

  99. Jon: I have hesitated a while before weighing in on your moderation efforts, because you surely have enough opinions to weigh up already.


    Habbabkuk does have a point, and states it pretty well. It’s often arguable and I may not like it. That’s all the more reason that I should hear it. So do a good few other posters. But I don’t get to know what they are any more, unless I refresh (and keep) their contributions before you decide that I shouldn’t be troubled by them, because you deleted them to protect us.

    Has Craig now decreed that posters here should keep their comments constrained to certain topics, with a certain bent, or they get deleted? Getting rid of obvious pests is one thing, but moving to line-item editing/deletion of posts on a blog like this is simply indulging in a power-trip.

    Remember that even trolls got tolerated, then warned, then banned by CM after blatant disruption. Even then, he didn’t demand their posts be deleted immediately. You’ve taken this role way too far, in my estimation. This has become the approved comment section according to one person only – yourself. This IS NOT a blog about whether Jon approves the comment. If it has become such, then it is truly worthless – you disrespect CM, and should get your own blog.

    This used to be an incredible free-rolling comment section, now it’s got to pass the “Jon Filter”. I would really have appreciated knowing what the “[Jon/ Mod: Deleted]” comment was, that you saved my fluttering heart from having to witness.

    Come on, FFS – we’re not all wilting flowers here. Save the “[Mod: Deleted]” for flagrant violations, and don’t worry – it’ll be obvious when they are needed.

    You’ve already seen off more than enough decent contributors here, Crypto being just one. And don’t give me this tired “Well, if I’m pissing off everyone I must be something right” BS. You are going too far, and have been for a long time now.

    If you’re trusted with mod’ing this blog – delete the spam, cut down the trolls. But let the blog itself flow, you are currently ruining it. Or do you see this as your blog now?

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