Gordon Brown

by craig on September 19, 2013 7:44 pm in Uncategorized

I have a guilty political secret.  I do not detest Gordon Brown.  That is such an unfashionable opinion that I don’t really expect any comments at all to agree with it.  And yes, I do realise that he went along with the Iraq War and all the other horrors of the Blair era. Interestingly, I don’t remember the question of what Gordon Brown really thought about Iraq ever being discussed; he deserves condemnation for having not tried to stop it, and perhaps he was indeed an enthusiast.  And I am well aware that the Private Finance Initiative is a terrible disaster, and that he oversaw creeping privatisation in the health services, and – worst of all – the introduction of tuition fees.

And yet I cannot dislike him.  Probably because I just know too many people who have  known him through decades, who are themselves good people, and who like him.  Around Edinburgh and Fife you will find it hard to find people who actually know him who share the hatred and contempt he seems to arouse among the political and media classes of London.

As a general rule I do not like or dislike people according to their politics, but rather according to the sincerity of their political beliefs and the goodwill with which they hold them.  I am sure Anders Breivik is sincere in his political beliefs, but those are lacking in goodwill. Sincerity is not enough – humanity and inclusiveness are also important.

There are one nation Tories who seem to me perfectly decent people, genuinely trying to do good.  I don’t hate them because their political conclusions on the best way to do good are different to mine.  Gordon Brown I put rather in the same category – I feel he was trying to do good for ordinary people, he just got it wrong.

Blair is in a whole different category again – insincere, absolutely focused on attaining personal power, and with a Messianic belief that what is good for him must be good for the World.  The Guardian is publishing some emails around the Blair Brown rivalry this week.  I don’t care and won’t read them.  But while I see Blair as quite properly damned for eternity to the seventh pit of hell, I don’t think Brown deserves anything worse than North Queensferry.

I have been in Ghana the last 20 days living in a house with no internet connection and working (extremely hard) in an office with virtually no internet connection – not enough to load WordPress.  I hope to get more chance to blog shortly.



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  1. That’s a bit like ‘He slid his opponent’s throat…, politely.’ This also doesn’t reflect W’s solid reasoning of ‘You’re either with or against US in the fight against tremor!’ Yes, never ever underestimate your opponent, but embrace him like a brother? Only after his humiliating defeat has turned him into an equal. Brown hasn’t shown any remorse after his loss [mainly because he hasn’t got an emotional clue, imo], so go and sit with the rest of the losers in that prospering hall of shame around the corner.

  2. It’s unfashionable, certainly, but I’ve always rather thought the same. He’s possibly a flawed man, very probably not the right sort of person to be PM. But a bad man? Not at all. In fact, one of his major problems was that he cared very deeply and personally about the problems facing people in the country, and simply couldn’t cope with it all.

    Recall his repeated, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry… I’m so sorry” to the bereaved mother of one of our soldiers in Iraq, which she’d taped for the tabloid filth when he telephoned her to give his condolences. He was clearly besides himself with genuine remorse that his government’s policies had caused her grief.

    An inability to delegate seemed another of his flaws. Problems were coming in by the minute, and he became overwhelmed. Blair seemed to rise above it all, secure in the knowledge that everything he’d done was by definition for the best possible motives, so he was therefore blameless for anything that resulted. Brown was entirely the opposite in that regard – he agonised over everything, and it pretty much destroyed him.

  3. Come on, Someone – we went over that a few years ago. It’s utter nonsense.

  4. Hi Craig, good stuff and good to see you on top form!

    “That is such an unfashionable opinion that I don’t really expect any comments at all to agree with it. 

    Sadly, during your absence, Jon has taken it upon himself to ban Habbabkuk, whose unfashionable opinions were, by the testament of many here who profoundly disagreed with his views, refreshing to the lazy consesus of Mary, Komodo, Fedup, et al, that so frequently prevails during your periods of absence.

    Our good mod Jon has given “English Knight” every conceivable chance, and still he is allowed to post his openly anti-Semitic diatribes here, whilst Habbabkuk remains banned for one single contravention, the context leading up to which Jon deliberately ignores.

    I would therefore ask of you to reinstate Habbabkuk forthwith.

  5. Glenn_uk: “An inability to delegate seemed another of his flaws.”

    Especially after the recent historic vote in Parliament, I’m still rather glad that it was Brown’s protege Miliband that was elected to lead the Labour Party, rather than Blair’s.

  6. Villager: I knew Ed Miliband leaned toward the Brown camp rather than the Blairites, and that David M was definitely Blair’s stooge, but I didn’t know that Ed Miliband was actually a protege of Brown. Interesting, thanks.

  7. How to have your cake and eat it…
    Opening an Internet access business in Ghana

  8. Mr Murray, thank you for that.

    It seemed to me that Gordon Brown was (and is) intellectually streets ahead of Tony Blair. So much so that he knew enough to realise just how much he still didn’t know. As a result this led to indecision whereas Blair, with his simplistic outlook on life, had no such uncertainties.

    What a shame that, after eventually becoming PM, he didn’t feel able to purge the Blairites from his government and give a fresh start and a change of direction

  9. “As a general rule I do not like or dislike people according to their politics, but rather according to the sincerity of their political beliefs and the goodwill with which they hold them. I am sure Anders Breivik is sincere in his political beliefs, but those are lacking in goodwill. Sincerity is not enough – humanity and inclusiveness are also important.”

    Good to know Craig, and good also to know that you are keeping well.

    Spoken like a true diplomat and i don’t mean that euphemistically. More in the sense of a resounding balance of a holistic attitude of mind.

    While i know you believe in that “inclusiveness”, assuming goodwill, utterly and completely, unfortunately in your absence your Moderator does not seem to have been applying the same philosophy here consistently. One regular commenter, who consistently received an extraordinary amount of abuse over the last ten months, Habbabkuk for his contrarian views was handed, without warning, the extreme decision of a ‘ban’. As recently as yesterday, well after the event, Jon recorded a snark referring to some others as a “tricycling triumvirate” in his rather overzealous sense of camaraderie with the many. If i recollect correctly, you once confided that you had never actually enforced a ban, even though you had on a couple of *very rare* occasions suggested so.

    In summary, I might put Jon “rather in the same category – I feel he was trying to do good for ordinary people, he just got it wrong.” I would urge you to review this extreme decision in the longer-term, holistic interests of your blog.

  10. Glenn, i’m no expert but it is an impression i have held. Wiki states “As Prime Minister, Gordon Brown appointed Miliband as Minister for the Cabinet Office and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on 28 June 2007. He was subsequently promoted to the new post of Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, a position he held from 3 October 2008 to 11 May 2010.”

    So perhaps there’s something there in a wider sense?

  11. cynicalHighlander

    19 Sep, 2013 - 8:57 pm

    I will disagree with you Craig on this one when one repeatedly goes back to his ubringing to support his assertion of morality shows his inability to act in this way. Look how he has tried to get attention on the Dalgetty Bay radiation problems since he left high office even though this problem has been known about when hew was in government and did sweet nothing about it, nothing more than an attention seeker.

  12. Oh dear, the trolls, aka Moaning Minnies, are back and crying to Daddy. It has been so refreshingly peaceful on the other thread.

  13. I don’t hate (or detest) Brown either. But then – unusually! – I don’t hate Blair. I almost feel sorry for the useless little prick. He’s ruined the life chances of countless people in this country before you even start to count the ones overseas he’s maimed and killed, and for what? A few years with his millions, the sprog at Yale (or Harvard or wherever it was), the poppet at the Sorebum and nothing to shag but Cherie! You can’t seriously believe it was worth it. Shortly, he’ll have to face the music as we all must. I’m glad I’ve got my karma and not his.

    As for his mate, the best Chancellor we’ve ever had, he’s just a run-of-the-mill politician with an over-blown idea of his own ability – nothing unusual there; chuck a stick at Westminster and you’ll hit six of the useless buggers. Otherwise, he’s probably a decent enough bloke. What it is about the political profession which seems to pre-select for prats, tossers, megalomaniacs and homicidal kleptocrats, I don’t know, but we’re the real fools – we keep electing them. Look what followed the dynamic duo: Clegg, Cameron and Verybland! Everybody looking forward to the next election? Choose away!

  14. “It has been so refreshingly peaceful on the other thread.”

    Zionists, freemasons, Jewish trickery, Auschwitz denial, and your own Kabbalah bracelets.

    And that on page 12 alone.

    Yes, refreshingly peaceful, Mary!

  15. On Gordon Brown, the Zionost, at the time of Cast Lead.

    ‘Gordon Brown, a self declared Zionist responded by deliberately inverting the facts about the massacre. “I am deeply concerned by continuing missile strikes from Gaza on Israel and by Israel’s response today,”

    Notice how Brown reverses the sequence of events. In reality the Palestinians were besieged, illegally by Israel. The Israelis stopped even basic humanitarian supplies entering Gaza. The Palestinians responded with crude missiles.

    MPACUK have long championed the cause of the Palestinians. People will not be occupied without resisting with force. The Palestinians will never be stopped for their quest for justice. NOW IS THE TIME TO FIGHT.

    When the General election comes ask yourselves how friendly is Gordon Brown to the Muslims? Also make sure you know and understand what the racist ideology Zionism is and what threat it constitutes to Muslims. Gordon Brown admits being a Zionist, he should be held to account for his racism.’


    Also a patron of the JNF. No words.

    Brown takes on JNF role
    By Daniella Peled

    The Jewish Chronicle, 27/07/2007

    “In a speech to Labour Friends of Israel in April, he [British Prime Minister Gordon Brown] recounted how his late father, a Church of Scotland minister, had taught him about ‘the trials and tribulations of the Jewish people, about the enormous suffering and loss during the Holocaust, as well as the extraordinary struggle he described to me of people to create this magnificent homeland’ ”

    JNF UK, one of Anglo-Jewry’s leading charities, has secured Gordon Brown as its latest patron, the JC can reveal.

    The Prime Minister accepted the role following an invitation from JNF UK president Gail Seal, who wrote conveying her good wishes the day after he took office.

    In a letter to Mrs Seal, the PM responded that “your congratulations and good wishes are very much appreciated” and that he was “delighted to accept your offer to become a patron of JNF UK”.

    A spokesman for Mr Brown told the JC: “The Prime Minister supports a number of charities and has agreed to become a patron of the Jewish National Fund UK in order to encourage their work to promote charitable projects for everyone who lives in Israel.”

    Mrs Seal said she was “very proud that Gordon Brown has agreed to become patron of JNF UK. This will enhance what is already a close relationship with the UK Jewish community, and help us progress in our tremendously successful campaign to bring new communities to the Negev.”

    The PM joins other JNF UK patrons including Tony Blair, the Conservative leader, David Cameron, as well as Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks, who is said to be a close friend of Mr Brown.

    JNF UK raises £15 million a year, intended to promote “exclusively charitable projects in Israel”. Its fundraising events range from London-Israel plane rallies to the Green Sunday “telethon”.

    The charity has faced its share of controversy. Currently, it risks being dragged into a storm surrounding a proposed Israeli law which would restrict the sale of JNF-owned land to non-Jews. The bill passed its preliminary reading in the Knesset last week.


  16. Yes Anon. WHY was Kanye West wearing a Kabbalah bracelet?

  17. Don’t know why Gordon Brown was the target of the Murdoch smears? The fact that he was getting slated and constantly snipped at, should be a clue that he was not playing the game as per his instructions.

    However Brown played the game nonetheless, he should have his reasons, and perhaps one day we will get to know why?

  18. “WHY was Kanye West wearing a Kabbalah bracelet?”

    I don’t know, Mary. Perhaps you can inform us of what relevance this has to his whoring himself out to the Kazakh regime?

  19. @Richard,

    The problem is the system of electing officials. It selects defective personality types.

    Far better to do what the Athenians did. Except for the few positions demanding real leadership ability or expertise (those can still be elected or appointed,) choose at random (by lot) from the whole body of citizens for all jobs (like legislative jobs) that do not demand particular talents). Then the personality types chosen will be no worse than the average in a population.

  20. “It has been so refreshingly peaceful on the other thread.”

    If that is so, perhaps it is a bubble encompassing a lot of one-hand clapping and head-nodding? Surely that is not the real world, wish it were, where human consciousness itself is very divided? If one is looking for peace per se, perhaps one should go and meditate in the Himalayas?

  21. I have this same guilty secret. History will hopefully treat him fairly. He has his flaws, but he is more sympathetic than most.

  22. Fedup: I rather think Murdoch had done a deal with Cameron. Brown was suspicious of Murdoch, did not like Blair’s fawning acceptance of him as kingmaker, and was inclined to block his further expansion into UK broadcasting. Having taken the Murdoch shilling, Cameron enjoyed favourable coverage, while Brown could do nothing right whatsoever.

    Things that Brown did do right – including a substantial arresting of the global financial meltdown – earned him no credit whatsoever. On the contrary, he was blamed for the global downturn, as if it had happened to Britain in isolation.

    I don’t think a party has yet won a British election with the Murdoch media empire opposing it.

  23. Unlike you Craig, I have not met anyone who knows Gordon Brown, but I think he is a good man. Unfortunately not the stuff that PMs are made of that’s for sure. I don’t feel guilty about this view however, in fact I’m proud to stick my head above the parapet and speak out in support of Gordon Brown against so many mindless critics who don’t recognise sincerity when it’s staring them in the face.

  24. Nice words about a yes sayer with a dark past, Craig, good to hear you are alive and well. a friend of ( diverting British foreign affairs) Israel. but with what is building up now, despite desperate Osborne’s attempt at housing bubble 3, its very likely that Labour gets a majority next time, leaving the Lib dems in Limbo and a smattering of UKIP MP’s in Parliament.

    And absolutely nothing will change!.

    Gnash, more kayne West.

    Saw his performance on Jools Holland and compared to the kings of Leon, his act of ball scratching was over hyped, stereotype, middle of the road hip-hop.

  25. Anon, there’s been no anti-Jewish material posted from Krishnamurky as far as I’ve seen. If you wish to give a time/date reference, I’ll look into it, as usual.

    Mary, I don’t think there’s anything untoward about West wearing a Kabbalah bracelet. It’s seems de rigueur for celebrities of various stripes to do this for a bit – Madonna did so many years back (and how I came by that useless piece of knowledge I’ll never know). I should think there is little explanation for his glossing the regime in Kazakhstan other than money and ignorance.

    As for Brown, I’m in two minds. He certainly had some self-awareness, just as Blair had a total absence of it, and with that self-knowledge came not a little self-doubt. But the infighting at the time requires two tango-dancers, so – amateur psychology alert – I’m inclined to see sociopathic traits in the pair of them.

    I concede that a politician in any recent Labour cabinet has their work cut out – in a party that is meant to represent the Left, they have all the forces of capitalism pitted against them. There are always positions on which a progressive minister will have to give way – the question is how much does one have to give way before one has become part of the machine they’re raging against? One of Iraq, tuition fees, PFI, the dismantling of the NHS or swinging to the far Right on immigration might be understandable, just. But all of the above? How can we explain someone “just trying to do the right thing for ordinary people” if they got all of those wrong, even if we accept that modern politics requires horse-trading?

    Richard, Blair will retire in a sea of luxury – probably literally, given his fondness for oligarch’s yachts. He’ll likely keep on insisting we need to bomb Iran, or whoever else his preference for humanitarianism decides to select next. But he’s rather been sidelined, hasn’t he? I think aside from his international Middle East Envoy duties (ahem) his only role in the Labour Party is to keep the Millenium Dome clean, or some other white elephant project. In a sense, neoliberalism has rather washed its hands of him, and if he gets a million quid every year for grinning at some board meetings, the establishment will be more than happy. The one thing that is most unlikely to happen – much to Blair’s own disbelief, I’d warrant – is that he can come back into politics in a meaningful way. I’m not sure it should be possible to refer to his shameful record in such an abstract way, but his brand is rather tarnished.

  26. I am so not with it! I had to search who West is. (the only West I know is Adam aka ye Olde Batman)

    I remember Nicholas Soames aka the wardrobe with a key sticking out, was trying to be with it, and was on the telly going on about listening to Dido ( I had to search for that one too).


    Glenn_uk, very true, but also a lot had to do with bLiar and his team of hit men who were exacting revenge on Brown.

  27. “Blair is in a whole different category again.” You can say that again! So I will.

    “Blair is in a whole different category again.”

  28. Hi Jon!

    “Anon, there’s been no anti-Jewish material posted from Krishnamurky as far as I’ve seen. If you wish to give a time/date reference, I’ll look into it, as usual.”

    Always happy to oblige.

    Krishnamurky 29 Aug, 2013 – 6:13 am: “Really the only way the Synagogue of Satans chosen delusions may be cured is a long course of rib-cage anorexia, preferably on an open top cattle car.”

    [Mod/Jon: thanks; two items excised from that date]

  29. Davide Simonetti

    19 Sep, 2013 - 10:21 pm

    I agree with you on this Craig. I felt Gordon’s heart was in the right place but he was clumsy, unfortunate and yes, wrong. I hate Blair and everything he did I pitied Gordon.

  30. New thread. Same old concerns.

    Drumbeats drumbeats, still chuntering away in the background…

    Nato/US is upping the force threat, just a notch; Putin is saying we can’t be “100 per cent certain” the CW can be removed from Syria. The chess continues. Putin thinks Syria is still on the menu; and with the shooting down of their “test” missile, the US wonders if Russia might actually fight back.

    And everyone knows Iran is next if Syria does get “liberated” by the decaying petrodollar empire.

  31. Sorry, jjust realised you wrote that crap for legal reasons.

  32. I am not obsessed by neocon wars.

    I am not obsessed by neocon wars.

    I am not…

  33. Good to hear you are well, and working Away

    I was often of two minds on Brown, he looked relieved big time to be walking out of that street with his family. Off course not before much carnage was done in Iraq – i firmly believe he was Genuinely Sorry, So sorry to grieving uk parent – But in the Real world – there was hell on Earth being heaped upon Irag, Still is compared to pr-western intervention, in both wars, which included the sanctions that caused the Iraqi infanticde….THAT Was Real

  34. When Brown was managing the national economy I was somewhat skeptical about his ‘endogenous growth theory’, and also his worship of the ‘British Housing Market'(1/5 conditions against joining Euro). Much social housing was demolished during the 2001-2008 period of Labour government in order to stimulate the private property market.

  35. Presenting Gordon Brown:


    Departing Mr Brown told this women, “Very nice to meet you, very nice to meet you.”

    Overheard after the ‘encounter’ Mr Brown called this widowed pensioner, a ‘bigoted women’- he continued, “I mean it’s just ridiculous.”


    Is that goodwill; is that veracity; is that sincerity? No it is NOT.

    These ‘zombies’ represent us, yet they steal from us, force suicides through financial stress and eviction and create wars which murder innocent civilians and children.

    Why do we indulge them? How can we justify these surrogates for our lives who are experts at nothing except prattle and enacting laws to control us?

    Of course the answer is the system; the corpocracy which our leaders serve, by which they are manipulated, fingered by gluttony, greed and delusions of power.

  36. resident dissident

    19 Sep, 2013 - 10:40 pm

    Mary may have found it refreshing but I totally agree with Anon about how the last thread became little short of a sewer without the antiseptic cleansing element provided by dissenting elements. We have had John Goss making constant references to the Rothchilds ruling the world based on an analysis by a notorius anti-semite who bases his case on Protools of Zion type logic and to which this blog still includes a link, we have had Holocaust denial in buckets full by the likes of Daniel Rich and joy of joy Mary returned (despite of her promise not to do so until all dissident elements had been banned) to have a go at those who enjoy cycling and want to watch their heroes and got up to her old tricks of conflating anti zionism with a bit of petty anti semitism (the other side of this coin is those who try to conflate criticism of Israel and support of the Palestinian cause with anti- semitism – but many here fail to realise how they in fact just provide support to that attitude by their behaviour) . We also had a pretty thinly veiled attack on the first Iranian politician for a long time who has tried to improve human rights in that poor benighted country.

    Whichever of the contributors here who decided to post on the Stormfront forum asking their fellow racists and fascists to come here and attack Habbakkuk and support Mary must know be looking at the last thread with some degree of pride – and how hamfisted moderation actually assisted their efforts (although I know Jon well enough by now to know that was not his intention).

    On the subject of Holocaust denial, perhaps Craig should consider what he said on the subject a while back:

    “I have met people who were in the death camps, and people who liberated them. I view people who deny that the industrialised murder happened as cranky, and I don’t think disputes over precise numbers are of much importance.

    But neither do I think holocaust denial should be a crime. It should be met with ridicule and social sanction, not with prison. From reports Honsik seems a nasty bit of work, whose holocaust denial is motivated by Nazi sympathy. But he is given a spurious glamour by his imprisonment, and more attention than he deserves.”

    Perhaps he might then wish to consider where has been the ridicule and social sanction for its occurence on his own blog – especially when the one poster who would have been most likely to offer a swift rebuttal was removed by the near constant pressure on the moderator by those who while on the whole not being Holocaust deniers do rather like to downplay its relevance and importance.

  37. resident dissident

    19 Sep, 2013 - 10:47 pm


    Could I suggest that you look at the Rothschilds link provided and referred to ad nauseam by John Goss – I would appreciate your views on whether you find the page referred to overtly anti-semitic or not. The link I provided will provide further elucidation on the views of its author Daryl Bradford Smith.

  38. Monday, September 2, 2013

    Hodge Blames Gordon For Vodafone Tax Dodge

    Margaret Hodge isn’t wasting any opportunity to bleat about the £84 billion Vodafone/Verizon deal today:

    “We must demand reassurance that HMRC has thoroughly examined this proposition to ensure British taxpayers get their rightful share of this massive profit. If there’s a flaw in legislation it has to be urgently addressed by Treasury ministers. I don’t understand how anyone can justify such a massive windfall without handing a fair share to the Exchequer. If this is an instance in which Vodafone has simply played the system then clearly they themselves have an obligation to UK consumers, on whom they depend for their business, to do the right thing.”

    Flaws in legislation, you say? Well the two companies are exploiting the so-called “Substantial Shareholder Exemption” loophole to legally dodge the tax, the very same loophole used by Guardian Media Group when it sold Autotrader. SSE is a corporation tax exemption for businesses disposing of a substantial shareholding in a part of their business. The idea is that businesses should be able to restructure their businesses without having to worry about chargeable gains implications. And who was it introduced by? One Gordon Brown…


    Only one flaw there from Mrs ‘Enver’ Hodge. She voted for it.

    PS Gordo exempted himself from the Syria debate. Where was he? Politically convenient perhaps.


    Labourites absent from both votes on 29 August 2013
    Ian Austin (Labour)
    Robert Blackman-Woods (Labour)
    Hazel Blears (Labour)
    Paul Blomfield (Labour)
    Gordon Brown (Labour)
    Richard Burden (Labour)
    Sarah Champion (Labour)
    Michael Connarty (Labour)
    Rosie Cooper (Labour)
    David Crausby (Labour)
    John Cryer (Labour)
    Ian Davidson (Labour )
    Yvonne Fovargue (Labour)
    Lilian Greenwood (Labour)
    Peter Hain (Labour)
    David Hanson (Labour)
    David Heyes (Labour)
    Sharon Hodgson (Labour)
    Diana Johnson (Labour)
    Barbara Keeley (Labour)
    Andrew Love (Labour )
    Siobhain McDonagh (Labour)
    Austin Mitchell (Labour)
    Yasmin Qureshi (Labour)
    Emma Reynolds (Labour)
    Dame Joan Ruddock (Labour)
    Angela Smith (Labour)
    John Spellar (Labour)
    Karl Turner (Labour)
    Shaun Woodward (Labour)

    From his entry on TWFU. His constituents in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath must be thrilled.

    Has spoken in 3 debates in the last year — well below average amongst MPs.
    Has received answers to 15 written questions in the last year — average amongst MPs.

  39. Nearly a full house of trolls now. I knew the ‘peace’ would not last.

    I see RD is taking over from Habbabkuk in chanelling me and is even bringing up the Stormfront smear thing again. Could he leave me out of his tripe please.

    btw who was it who was involved in the Stormfront smear? Any ideas?

  40. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Sep, 2013 - 11:32 pm

    Christ. Is this thread going to hell in a handbasket too?

  41. Considering the last ten months of crap fest, it appears that again the keyboard warriors are filing in to register their dismay about the “antis….”, and reconsideration of the “decision” of the Mod. This line of attack has been over and again exercised elsewhere, with the resultants attained status of the sacred cow that even the mere mention of the certain words are not considered “tropes” and clear and present cases of “antis……”.

    Firstly is it now mandate that we must all “Love” the _ews? Is it against the law to be indifferent or choose the don’t care option? Secondly in a post Christian UK WTF has this new article has to do with the not so dearly departed disruptive tosser, who had the temerity to come back and join in as though he was not thrown out on his ears, or the perceived incidents of “antis…”?

    Why do we have to be subject to this kind of systemic attack and stay silent?

    This is to register our dissatisfaction with these meddlesome whine merchants who have nothing of any value to add, other than whine, moan, and complains, in the way of making acceptable the inhumane and dastardly practices of a bunch of ziofuckwits, by suppressing any kind of dissent.

    Why do these delicate “special” lot don’t fuck off and read somewhere else which is not as “hostile” to their delicate supremacist disposition? Why do we have to put up with them Mod? (Just to balance things out a bit, you realise)

  42. Ben Franklin : I’m surprised it lasted that long mate!

  43. Funny how those who claim to be against censorship constantly want others to STFU, using constipating logic, based on tribal ingredients and it’s all about ‘them’ never the ‘other.’ I’d rather prefer the sound of no hands yakking.

    @ Glenn_uk,

    Given Murderer Murdock’s Kingmaker proportions in the UK the following ‘Why the US media ignored Murdoch’s brazen bid to hijack the presidency’ might not come as a real surprise.

    I don’t see Brown as the epithet of evil, but in the cutthroat environment of bloody politics you’d better be a shark and not a gullible guppy.

    @ Resident Dissident,

    Fair warning: this is strike 2.

  44. Damian McBride’s book is being serialized. S**t to hit the fan.

    The McPoison papers: Confessions of rogue spin doctor Damian McBride
    As Gordon Brown’s communications chief, he smeared and span with a savagery that eventually saw him drummed out of politics. Now he has written a tell-all memoir. James Cusick gets a preview

    Thursday 19 September 2013

    Blairites fight back with release of Damian aides’ emails
    Senior Labour MP, George Mudie, blasts Ed Miliband and warns of 2015 poll defeat
    Damian McBride’s poison pen looms over Ed Miliband as memoirs of Gordon Brown’s former spin-doctor set to be published
    Heeeere’s Tony! Blair’s plan to ‘re-engage’ with British politics
    Ed unveils Labour’s ‘new’ signing

    Over the past few weeks Gordon Brown has telephoned some of his former aides and told them he’s now worried about “the book”. The assurances he’s been offered – that “everyone gets f***ed over except you, Sarah [Brown], Ed [Balls] and Damian himself of course” – haven’t been enough to calm the former prime minister down. The serialisation this weekend of Power Trip, the first insider account of life inside Brown’s Treasury and Downing Street courts, is expected to confirm his worst fear: that he made a mistake last year when he discussed with McBride, his former spin doctor, just who merited being attacked now that he was away from frontline politics.

    Those who have known both men also expect the book to re-open old wounds, spark consequential revenge, and to engender retribution – according to a still-loyal Brownite – “worthy of Machiavelli and Don f***ing Corleone”.


  45. “Sincerity is not enough – humanity and inclusiveness are also important.”

    I’m sorry but Gordon Brown fails right there, as he has unforgivable blood on his hands; all those that turn a blind eye to this because he meant to do the right thing, especially on domestic issues, are in effect saying that a few pennies here & there for the poor here, etc, is so much more important than the lives of foreigners over there, and this acceptance of “meaning to do the right thing”, is exactly what Blair believes absolves him from his monstrous foreign policy crimes.

    Brown had the power to stop Blair in his tracks right upto the last footsteps on that infamous march to war, he may not have prevented Bush going alone, but his resignation would have certainly put Blair in a very difficult if not impossible position to go with the Yanks. He should have followed Robin Cook’s example, as he must have realised that he had the power to possibly avert a war & the inevitably resulting mass killing & suffering, instead as Chancellor he gave the obliging financial green light & political go ahead by stating “”I told [Tony Blair] I would not – and this was right at the beginning – try to rule out any military option on the grounds of cost. Quite the opposite. He should feel free, because this was the right course of action, to discuss the military option that was best for our country and the one that would yield the best results”, and of course even in hindsight, he still defends this Crime Against Humanity, with this infamous quote, “”I think it was the right decision and made for the right reasons.”

    Not one of your best Post Craig.

  46. Dead right Macky. He wrote and signed the cheques for Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Quite a telling photo of the twisted pair in this Mail article announcing McBride’s book launch timed to coincide with the party conference.



    What a bunch. I always felt that many of the NuLabour lot had something on each other – a kind of mutual blackmail.

  47. Resident Dissident: “”especially when the one poster who would have been most likely to offer a swift rebuttal was removed”

    Was removed after making yet another grossly offensive remark, and after a full ten months of vile filled trolling, & bullying, & sock-puppeting ,etc, etc. On any other Blog, he would have been banned in a matter of days, not MONTHS !

    It is obvious that the Contrarians here, consider him as their ablest champion, which really is actually an own-goal type sorrowful indictment; surely it’s not beyond RD, or any of the other Contrarians, to “offer a swift rebuttal” whenever he/they feel that it is warranted, and preferably without the characteristic venomous abuse of the rightly banned Troll.

  48. Staging the Chemical Weapons Attack in Syria

    Just listen to the Wanky Moon; “there is evidence that a relatively large scale attack”. The numbers of dead Syrians are not even one hours worth of murder in Iraq or Afghanistan.

  49. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 12:34 am


    Greenpeace has been stalking and Putin filed a restraining order.

  50. @ Macky,

    Q: Not one of your best Post Craig.

    R: I don’t know about better or lesser, but I appreciate any wo/man who is honest about his/her feelings/thinking/emotions/ideas/etc. The truth really doesn’t hurt; lies do. I can disagree with a man’s thoughts, but never his heart.

  51. Correction: I realized that in the previous thread I mentioned I wanted to write a book. I should have mentioned the correct time line: I was trying to find out what had happened to one half of my family when I came across so many inconsistencies [I grew up with the horrors of soap and lampshades], that I decided to pen it all down [but in the end never did]. My apologies.

  52. Deffo a Pattern here, On how best to Disrupt the threads / Blog

    As RD has immediately Just done on this thread

    Here’s Robert Fisk’s Spanner in the works Re whom the Moral ones are

    Robert Fisk on Christian Zionism:

    “Having once been sustained by the progressive left, Israel now draws its principal support from right-wing conservatism of a particularly unpleasant kind. Christian evangelicals believe that all Jews will die if they do not convert to Christianity on the coming of the Messiah. And right-wing racists in Europe – the most prominent of them being Dutch – are welcome in Israel, while the likes of Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein are not”.


    As Tony Greenstein has written in The Guardian,

    Like the boy who cried wolf, the charge of “anti-semitism” has been made so often against critics of Zionism and the Israeli state that people now have difficulty recognising the genuine article.

    So absurd has the situation become that the allegation of anti-semitism is even made when Jews disagree among themselves. That is why the suggestion by Alvin Rosenfield that “anti-Zionism is the form that much of today’s anti-semitism takes” needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt.

    One of the consequences of this abuse of the term “anti-semitism” is to devalue the currency. It renders it almost meaningless because people assume that allegations of anti-semitism are merely the last-ditch resort of those who are incapable of defending the Apartheid Wall that separates the people of the West Bank from their land, the bulldozing of civilian houses, the wanton destruction of olive groves and crops, to say nothing of the theft of their land.

    Anti-semitism today is not a mainstream form of racism. It is asylum seekers, Muslims and black people who face stop-and-search, control orders and racial profiling, not Jewish people.

  53. BrianFujisan

    20 Sep, 2013 - 1:04 am


    Would it be too late now, that would make for soul searching reading and add to historical accounts, though i can see how re-visiting those Memories could be too painful.

  54. Daniel Rich: “The truth really doesn’t hurt; lies do. I can disagree with a man’s thoughts, but never his heart.”

    Yes it’s impossible to argue with what others feels in their, or in your own, heart, the feelings exist as solid & as true as any indisputable fact, & it’s always right to appreciate & value honesty, so you will not disagree with me either when I tell you that both my heart & my head are telling me that this particular piece of truth, namely that Craig “cannot dislike” Brown, on the strength of an inverse sort of guilt by association, & regardless as to whetever Brown was “an enthusiast” for the attack on Iraq or not, hurts my own high regard for himself, even whilst appreciating his frank honesty.

  55. You may have hear about this ‘neo-Nazi’ murder in Greece;


    It moved one Greek comic strip artist to pen this;


  56. @ Macky,

    If what you say is what you honestly believe in, who am I to judge you?

    Syrian news: Islamist rebels declare war on non-Islamist rebels, seize border town + Syrian government says war has reached stalemate.

    Does anyone see light at the end of this barbarically dark tunnel?

  57. @ BrainFujisan,

    It’s always easier to look at things in hindsight and comment, but I sometimes wonder what I was thinking when I ran over a frozen lake, knowing the ice was to thin, only to prove I was a cool guy [and, of course, I went through it]? But that act endangered mostly myself, because I got [luckily] out on my own. I think Macky expressed it perfectly when s/he said:

    ““…meaning to do the right thing”, is exactly what Blair believes absolves him from his monstrous foreign policy crimes.

    Brown had the power to stop Blair in his tracks right upto the last footsteps on that infamous march to war, he may not have prevented Bush going alone, but his resignation would have certainly put Blair in a very difficult if not impossible position to go with the Yanks.”

    Blair really seems to think God guided him [as a lawyer, who can argue with the ‘Big Boss?’], whereas Brown should have done the courageous thing and resign. He is not guilty by association, but by his inaction to stop the wrongdoing or stop being part of it.

    In have to admit though, that I say this as a layman. I don’t personally know what it feels like to be PM of a country.

  58. No time now to ponder on the flaws or merits of Gordon Brown. He may be a guy with some kind of heart but he served and he too messed up

    Very possible staged filming of chemical attack in Syria: Children in video ‘moved between locations’


    On another fairly relevant note, Resident dissident fails the basic human decency exam by the flawed referral to a singular holocaust. As a human race we should be sickened and angered by all holocausts, whether it be the horrible and deliberate starving of up to 10 million Ukrainians by the Russian/Jewish Bolshevicks, the 20 million Russians killed under Stalin, the tens of millions of Chinese killed under communist China,the 30 million murdered under the British Raj in India or the millions of Jews, Gypsies and others murdered by the German sociopaths in the European holocaust of world war 2

  59. “If what you say is what you honestly believe in, who am I to judge you?”

    Just to clarify Daniel, I’m not asking or expecting you to judge my sincerity, neither am I judging Craig’s sincerity, rather I’m judging on both the rational & moral level, that with which he is being sincere about.

    Oops ! Way past my bedtime, so that my last post for tonight/morning, goodnight one & all !

  60. I can’t believe how off topic the comments are. Surely the issue is nominating a precinct of Queensferry as a way station to Hell?

  61. mommy issues

    20 Sep, 2013 - 4:54 am

    I can just hear the strategy sessions at hasbara HQ: “Whining, that’s what we need – that will arouse all the antisemites! You know how antisemites hate whiners!”

  62. You’ve got to be joking. Is this a xmas card list article or is brown coming out for yes?

    I remember the loss of the labour party to the workers. The runaway excesses of the financial services. And of course as you even acknowledge, brown, as the second most powerful politician in the uk, kept stum throughout the iraq war. But that’s ok because you have some pals who are his pal and he’s not as bad as blair.

  63. I definitely do not agree with you Craig. Perhaps money wasn’t Brown’s prime mover but there definitely were Messianic similarities to Blair. He saved the world remember from economic ruin.Supported every war.His economic acumen was maxing someone elses Credit Card out for popularity.
    People in Kirkcaldy still like him, because he filled the yard at Rosyth for 10 years and he supports Raith Rovers.If a monkey wore a Labour rosette in Kdy, he’d be elected too.
    His speeches were constantly peppered with ” New World Order” references.No idea what their heads are filled with at Bilderberg meetings , but GB was a true disciple of handing real Govt. to the faceless few.
    The world is better off without him, and North Queensferry would be too.

  64. And yes, I do realise that he went along with the Iraq War

    I think he went along with the Iraq War not just because he would have been out of government if he hadn’t, but also because it was believed at the time by those in government that it would be “successful.” Apparently Brown was concerned about Blair being able to wallow in the victory!

    Brown may lack the polished delusion hypocrisy of Blair, but he ended up as a failed Machiavellian politician peddling authoritarianism, the virtues of capitalism and a foul version of British chauvinism.

  65. My guess is that Blair got out because his financial mates had told him the shit was inevitably going to hit the fan*. Brown was dropped right in it. Was Brown flawed? Sure. Who isn’t, in some way? And did he have any autonomy at all, at the end of the day? Agree with Craig.

    *Note that sense of dedication to the national interest for which Blair is justly unknown…

  66. Are we talking about Brown because the media is?
    Are blogs steering themselves? by their amplification of MSM issues, in many times decided on long before they go to print? or are they thinking for themselves.

    Craig does not seem to have noticed that three super power navies are facing each other in the eastern Med. and that a single gulf of Tonkin exercise could set off a chain of ‘mishaps’?

    Gordon Brown, in 17 auctions, sold 398tons of gold at a throw away price and he did not make much fuss when in 2006 the financial regulations bill was wiped off the agenda, because Blair thought its really not necessary.

    I think that both of these steps make him a party political hand raiser who can be ruthless, to his own party and believes, as Phil pointed out, as well as in ignorance to that of a wider public, remember, 2 million of us spent a day telling him so marching against the Iraq war.

    I can’t warm to any of the party politicians anymore and prefer a random selection process of representatives, no need for an ineffective and useless electoral commission, no need for voting at all, or election expenses, doorstep lies, media hypes and dependent propaganda from the BBc, or pumped up appearances of x or y leader, just a hat full of NI numbers and a blindfold.

    And even the German voting system, complicated but fair, is too expensive, favouring large parties that poll over 5%, but nevertheless a dream compared to FPTP, AV,or AV plus.

  67. Are blogs steering themselves? by their amplification of MSM issues, in many times decided on long before they go to print? or are they thinking for themselves.

    Good point. Agree.

  68. Only slightly O/T:

    Blair claims not to be offshore.
    Someone registered two companies – Windrush Ltd and Firerush Ltd – in Gibraltar in Sept 2010. The details are held by Gibraltar Companies House.

    These nowhere appear in the rather patchy accounts of Blair’s complex financial structure, which contains at least ten UK companies in two functional groups, Windrush and Firerush. There is no UK Windrush/Firerush Ltd – where named, the companies are W/F Ventures Ltd/LP/LLP. The name Firerush is unique to Blair’s consortium. Blair’s non W/F companies are nominee shells, staffed by Bircham Dyson Bell staff/nominees. BDB specialises in nominee accounts.

    Gibraltar has a flat tax rate of 10%.

    I find this interesting. Neither the Guardian nor the Mail does.

  69. “*Note that sense of dedication to the national interest for which Blair is justly unknown…”

    Did Brown really think that attacking Iraq was in our best national interest ? Was he unaware of either the bogus “debate” when the decision had already been made long before, or of the fraudulent “sexing-up” the case for war ?

  70. Does Craig post provocatively to stimulate debate?

    Doon with the Broons!


  71. Brown as an avowed Zionist presumably approves of this daily horror endured by the Palestinians and B.Liar as the risible Quartet Representative presides over it.

    Wednesday 18 September 2013

    Israeli Army prevents families (made homeless by its destruction of their homes) from erecting tents donated by the International Red Cross

    Gaza incursion: Israeli Army bulldozes crops

    Israeli Army position opens fire on Gaza refugee camp farmland

    Israeli forces, firing stun and tear gas grenades at schoolchildren, seize and hold 12-year-old boy

    Israeli Army orders resident to destroy his own home

    Night peace disruption and/or home invasions in 3 villages

    2 attacks – 10 raids including home invasions

    3 acts of agricultural/economic sabotage

    6 taken prisoner – 9 detained – 105 restrictions of movement


    This too from Defence for Children International about one of the Daddies taken from his family. A story repeated thousands of times. Terrible.


  72. Did Brown really think that attacking Iraq was in our best national interest ? Was he unaware of either the bogus “debate” when the decision had already been made long before, or of the fraudulent “sexing-up” the case for war ?

    I have no idea. He didn’t share with me. And I didn’t say he did. But he’s not a technical specialist, and like 412 other MP’S, took the crap intelligence he was being served to be genuine caviar. Probably encouraged by Blair working overtime in the bullshit department. Y’know (TM) Gordon, think of the benefit to the Exchequer of those lucrative oil contracts when it’s all over by Christmas?…..

  73. The results of judging these two buggers for their personal or political morals, truthfulness or effectiveness as national leaders will always be partial. Over their lives and careers (so far), the record of each has, on different issues, made me feel admiration and sympathy as well as anger, contempt and despair. Let’s reserve hatred for what people have done (or failed to do) and leave it to God and history to judge them as individuals (including as spouses, parents and friends). However different Gods and perspectives will always assign them shifting places in schemas like Dante’s. (Some might regard North Queensferry as Purgatory but for devotees of the Forth Bridge, it’s close to Paradise.)

    The most instructive way to compare them is as politicians and as Labour party colleagues. Think what their government could have achieved if it had been able to combine Brown’s determination to improve the lives of the downtrodden and disadvantaged and his attention to fiscal detail with Blair’s ability to sense the public mood and use it to political advantage; and to persuade colleagues not to become bogged down by the weight of inherited dogma. Think, then, of the short-term successes they were able to achieve despite their personal chemistry (at times catalytic, more often toxic): electoral victories, minimum wage, devolution, low inflation and unemployment, a settlement in Northern Ireland. But think, next, of the opportunities missed: to create greater social cohesion; to tackle the structural weakness in providing public services, especially health, welfare and education; to find a safe pathway through the minefields of immigration and climate change; to reform the Constitution; to move decisively away from traditional myths in our relations with Europe, the USA and the Commonwealth.

    They were, in their way, political giants. We’ll never have politicians without flaws – but can we please have ones without such big ones?

  74. Despite the claim that Hague is capable of doing any good at all, an interesting article:

    Does this fit with your experience, Craig?

  75. I like Brown. Always have. I think he is sincere, and sincerely wanted to do good things, but that he was fundamentally wrong about the means of achieving good things. Essentially, I think the means make the end, and so his infatuation with neoliberalism and the idea that private entrepreneurs could be harnessed via their greed to serve the greater good could only end in disaster. I think my tendency to take his side is more because he was so horrifically demonised by Bliarites, who had the cheek to accuse him of “psychological failings”. Well, we all have them. But to lambast Brown for his while ignoring Bliar’s blatant messiah complex and total dishonesty just takes the biscuit. The after effects are hobbling Miliband and turning him into a nonentity. If only we had New Zealand’s Cunliffe, who is an out social democrat who wants New Zealand to occupy the moral highground occupied by the Nordic countries in the Northern Hemisphere (though Norway’s disgraceful U turn on immigration and their social fund this week suggests the moral highground will soon be vacant). I will also always like Brown for calling a bigot a bigot, instead of ignoring the racism currently being courted by mainstream parties as they seek to ostracise and persecute immigrants in the name of the “traditional working class”. I’m traditional working class. Assuming I am also a racist disguising my bigotry as an objection to immigrants taking “British jobs” insults me. Brown may have been browbeaten by spin doctors into coining that repellent phrase, but I won’t be. I still know that, under the political-reptilian skin, he is as disgusted as I am by the BNP/UKIP tendency.

  76. deepgreenpuddock

    20 Sep, 2013 - 9:59 am

    I have to say that I have personal and family contacts in Kirkcaldy in the sixties and I was aware of GB (although I had no contact with him ). My brother met him and plenty of people I knew moved in the same social circles. I have a very clear idea of the GB social and formative influences of his early life.
    I also remember well his early career and his campaign to become a (post graduate) student rector of Edinburgh University, rather a novel idea at the time-when it was customary for a well known wag, clown or personality to be elected, supported by a group of goofing students with funny hats.
    I also remember the kinds of political circles he inhabited then and the speeches he made-some of them still on record. The curiosity of these is that they are so distant in tone and content from anything he did subsequently, and it is very difficult to not think that he was involved in a game, both of words and ideas that, regardless of the vehemence and apparent logic of his previous comments, now, with hindsight, reveal no connection to a deeper sincerity.
    It is perfectly palpable now that he was on a quest of self-aggrandisement. It seems painfully clear now that his aim was history and his fantasy was that young people like him, in later generations would read his name in the history books to come.
    Re-constructing him and his motivations and previous thoughts is possibly chancy-and why hold people to account for their early life ideas and actions and hold them to standards when context is so important.
    However there are clues. Sincerity is important. It is sometimes impossible to maintain some degree of consistency as circumstances change, however it is essential that someone such as Brown shows the logic of the progression of his ideas. Somehow he managed to go from leftist firebrand and speechifier to Brigth young thing within Labour, to deep thinker, to protector of the left agenda in a Labour party that had compromised nearly all its principles ‘to make it electable’. nulabour was exactly that. An unprincipled quest for electoral success, exploiting the tribal affiliations of generations, publicly appealing to such people in terms they approved of while privately an entirely different dialogue was going on.
    Some clues. Some years ago I listened to Brown waxing lyrically about his love of Raith Rovers as a child.attending the Starks park. However there was something that realy just did not ring true. Brown attended a school where football was simply not played. Rugby was the sport and Brown did indeed play rugby. The atttitude to football was that it was played by junior secondaries. It seems highly improbable, knowing what i know of the culture of his social cohort at that time, that he was sneaking away to watch Raith Rovers instead of heading off to watch Kirkcaldy senior rugby club
    ( it was a decent team then) at Beveridge park. That is where his friends would have gone.
    There is also the basic reality that Starks park-like most football grounds of the time, were less than salubrious. Beaten earth terraces. People pissing where they stood( on the people in front), drunkenness, bottles flying, fighting.
    Certainly, I, with parents with much less of a social position to maintain (a minister was a figure of some social importance in (smallish) town Scotland of the time), would have had something to say if I had wanted to go to Starks park
    ( and that was when I lived two doors away from the Raith Trainer, who was friend of my dad. It was dangerous, unpleasant and socially questionable.

    I could not imagine his going regularly to watch on saturday afternoons. Simply unbelievable in a well ordered genteel manse of the time, where the priority was sober reflection and academic excellence. GB almost certainly spent some of his saturdays doing his homework-his sunday was very much ‘the church’ and family commitments to that.
    When i heard him fabricate this world on television – his deep connection to the working classes, his connection to that great working class pursuit-football- I knew he was lying and dissembling.
    He was simply creating a myth that would meet with some approval or build credibility within the ‘nulabour party, that, having abandoned all principle to socialism and commitment to the ‘working class’ , had a great need to create a compensatory attachment to the signs of down to earth working class life, football being one of those ‘signs’. So we had a succession of Nulabour figures falling over themselves to reveal their tribal connection and deep love of, some less than successful minor footie team. It was necessary to attach t some small club as by then, ‘big ‘ football had long since passed over to the big players in the entertainment/media world-such as Murdoch.
    The contradictions here are massive.
    I remember very well Brown’s early speeches and writings on global strategy and colonialism and imperialism and the nature of exploitative capitalism. There can be not the slightest doubt that Brown has a deep, exceptional, understanding of historical events and movements related to the current world and has a close detailed understanding of the processes that lead to such evens as the election of GW Bush ad his drive to war. He will have been completely aware of the deeper background of these events.
    What we have to realise is that the great contradiction of power is exactly the one that Brown reveals so well due to his inherent personal weakness and insincerity. It is somehow-for everyone- a moral matter- and choices are deeply revealing. ( Obama’s feebleness and role as a mouthpiece has recently been revealed over Syria).

    Brown made an announcement very soon after much of the Blair +Blair cabinet decision making had been made to go to war. Brown announced he would make some billions of cash available from the contingency fund for the purpose of waging the war. Despite his knowledge and deeper understanding of ‘events’ and full awareness of contradictory analyses that predicted accurately the outcome, he was able to endorse the project fully. Despite ample opportunity he has never once expressed regret, regardless of the overwhelming evidence that the war was ill-conceived, fraudulently evidenced, catastrophically executed and profoundly illegal. He has at all times remained a stalwart cover for Blair, despite the appearance that they are in some kind of ‘opposition’. that factional fighting is actually simply further evidence of his failings-to indulge in that petty performance for power simply confirms the nature of the man. Why would anyone indulge themselves in tis way-when the reality is that behind that internal factionalism and point scoring, are decisions that afflict millions.
    I could talk about the PFI disgrace. I could talk about the ‘election’ fiasco in his first year of power when he misunderstood a matter of principle for a matter of strategy.
    That is the summation of the person. He is, behind that manse derived presbyterian propriety , and his no doubt, private urbanity erudition, a very weak man, who is a moral failure at every level who has sought power for the simple sake of it, and, unhappily for him-was successful in his fantasy.

  77. Some might regard North Queensferry as Purgatory but for devotees of the Forth Bridge, it’s close to Paradise.

    Just got a mental picture of approaching North Q from the Fife side, and seeing the hills across the Forth dusted with snow. Shit, why did I LEAVE? *sob*

  78. O/T Is the civil war and the fighting petering out? If so, praise be.

    Breaking News BBC
    Rebels agree truce in Syrian town New
    After days of fighting, two rebel groups, the Free Syrian Army and the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, agree a ceasefire in the town of Azaz.

  79. Hope you are right Mary, it is a pre condition for the Russian plan to work.
    What seems vital is that this lull is not being used by chemical Prince Bandar and his CIA compliants to re-arm the various factions.

    Further, the vast fire power assembled in the Med. a potential flashpoint in its own right, should be dispersing, ship for ship, tit for tat, their omni presence and stand off will get tedious after a while, boredom sets in and ideas of ‘what happens if’ come to mind.

  80. Breakthrough in US/Iranian relation?

    “ranian President Hassan Rouhani’s comments that his government would never develop nuclear weapons were welcomed by US Secretary of State John Kerry with the caveat that “everything needs to be put to the test”, and lauded by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. To Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu the pledge was an attempt to deceive the world. LINK.

    OK, shelve it.

    @ Jon.

    They want your scalp. I’ve got your back.

  81. Good summary and analysis there Deep Green. Glad you mentioned the PFI construct which, from small beginnings under Major, went big time under his and Blair’s watch. How many hundreds of £millions are we in debt for hospitals and schools alone? Yet it continues under the ConDems. Surrey CC have given a PFI contract to Skanska to replace and maintain all the county’s street lighting. Just one small example.

    Anyway I have both Blair and Brown down as power hungry types with psychopathic tendencies.

    Glad we don’t have to see that jaw grimace of Brown’s and his left hand squaring up his papers, both of which mannerisms used to really annoy me.

  82. Lets hope so Mary.


    Very insightful Info in all that,

    It would seem by you’re thoughts – that Brown was an international expert, on the whole shebang machinery, almost up there with the likes of Pilger, and Chomsky, if that is true, Oh Deary me, and Wtf

  83. “Syria”


    “Special Report: Syria intervention plans fueled by oil interests, not chemical weapon concerns”


  84. Daniel: “@ Jon.

    They want your scalp. I’ve got your back.”

    That’s not what this is about. This is what is at stake here:

    “Blog Information

    This excellent blog from a former ambassador is worth a visit,regardless of which end of the political spectrum you come from.

    Filled with revealing information about any number of things, Craig’s contacts in the government and security services give him access to data other bloggers can only dream of.

    It looks good, and we enjoyed the clear, easy-to-read writing style. All in all, an excellent blog.”

    extract from: http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/craig-murray

    Keep it simple, but not that simple.

  85. Brilliant and informative post at 9:59am today, Deepgreenpuddock, thanks. It could be written up into an article and published somewhere.

  86. Craig/Jon:

    Let’s ask the Margaret_Brennan_question: Is there anything that Habbabkuk can do for the silencing “ban” to be rescinded?

  87. Second Suhayl. Thnaks for your insights Deepgreenpuddock. Very thought-provoking about the phenomena of human failings and the dynamics of power.

  88. “I do not detest Gordon Brown.”

    Not even when he was defrauding British taxpayers of £5bn worth of gold for his banker bosses? Not just selling 395 tonnes of British taxpayers gold but telling the markets beforehand *how much* he was selling and thereby *guaranteeing* that the lowest price possible would be paid. And we are led to believe that he is intelligent?

    A thouroughly mendacious man the equal of Blair, but without the media skills. Blair/Brown are idealogical twins, you can not seperate them – that’s why their animosity towards each other is purely a matter of personalities and not policy and was mostly driven by Brown to distance himself from the Blair premiership that he unquestioningly supported for over a decade.

    His time as PM shows the scale of his ineptitude in so many areas, the fact that this man harbourd ambitions to be PM for so long but so quickly proved he was fucking useless sums up his crushing ego to a tee.

  89. You’re absolutely right, Craig …. nobody agrees with you.

    I’ll concede this much … the media hounded him out of office with as much co-ordinated spin as they used to keep Bliar in office, so we can conclude he was less compliant to the puppet masters’ wishes. But, however he justified it to himself, by the time he reached Downing St., he had already sold his soul over Iraq, and as I struggle to pay the inflated cost of our local PFI school over the next 30 years, I won’t forgive or forget what he did to try and stay there.

    A Node, he say:

    “Not by his sincerity and his goodwill shall a man be judged, but by his actions.”

  90. Daniel Rich Thanks for the links. I believe that anyone wishing to read McBride’s garbage will have to buy the printed edition of the Mail.

    Wonder how many pieces of silver he has received?


    As I said before, what a bunch! To think we endured 13 years of them and now we have the ConDems, many of whom very expert at opening food banks. 9 of them below in fact, the others Labourites inc one G. Brown Esq.

    The pride of Britain
    Posted on July 31, 2013 by Rev. Stuart Campbell

    It’s very rare, viewers, that we get so angry in the course of writing a post that we have to stop. But when we ran a picture last night of Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander MP, opening a foodbank with a cretinous smile on his face as if being a member of the government of a modern industrial nation in need of foodbanks was something to be happy about, a reader suggested making a gallery of similar images



  91. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me…,anyone?

    Sorry for the bandwidth:

    Villager – 15 Sep, 2013 – 5:00 pm

    Juteman @ 10h12, Anon @ 8h48 and Resident Dissident @ 15h26 you’ve nailed it on the head! This is what passes for moderation here and its roots lie well before the 10 months Jon alluded to in his speech.

    Foul language and abuse is okay here as long as it is deployed by pro-Palestine single-issue one-trick ponies. Google “ziofuckwits” for yourself, see what comes up. I encourage EVERYONE including lurkers to satisfy themselves and click on the link below to see a distinguished example of how illustrious this blog has become under Jon the Moderator’s watch:

    As long-time, balanced commenter here, Glenn_uk has said before, this Moderator is not fit-for-purpose. Though we all recognise that its the best Craig’s got.

    Jon admits that he has no context on George Galloway’s remarks (!!!!!). And then He “goes out on a bit of a limb” (????):
    “So, I’m going out on a bit of a limb, but I think 10 months of putting up with pointless whataboutery and spite is probably enough. It’s either that, or resign both moderation and technical button-pushing, frankly.”

    Yes Jon, i think you are a confused man, by your own admission. And confusion can only breed more confusion, which is what we are seeing. Take some responsibility.

    I am disgusted and shocked by your actions especially since:
    (a) you gave *no* warning to an intelligent, rational, generally respectful, eloquent and undoubtedly witty regular commenter,
    (b) you were, and if you weren’t you should have been, in reasonable doubt about the point that Habbabkuk was making and even how he was making it, and
    (c) you *failed* to take into account that Habbabkuk has had more abuse hurled upon him in these last 10 months than any other commenter has had *and endured* gracefully, probably in the history of this blog. He was the first, that i saw, to suggest here that unparliamentary language should be discouraged.

    Accordingly, i think you should do the right thing and retract that rarely-used ban immediately, forthwith. Your decision is an ill-considered (by your own admission), knee-jerk, irresponsible use of your ‘power’.

    Else, if you can’t see your mistake, then do the other right thing and go. This time not “on a bit of a limb”, but in grace.

    But if you decide to stay, you can rest fully assured that Macky & Co. will not any further be calling your ill-considered, loose-cannon moderation “shambolic. For, you have done their bidding.

    Well done chaps and chapesses, fantastic, now we see when your Revolution comes, how you will silence the intelligentsia in the guise of “whataboutery” and moans of “spite”. Enjoy your head-nodding, one-hand clapping echo chamber! For in the real world out here, life is good(!), and with President Obama stopping wars, early in his second-term, imho it is set to be even better!

    La vita e bella!

    PS Craig, look out, the zealots are taking over The Revolution!

    emphasize = mine

  92. “The Palestinians responded with crude missiles.”

    Many of which were fired by dubious ‘militias’ (aka Israeli backed stooges) against the direct orders of Hamas, only after Israel began it assault did Hamas let loose with it’s Katyushas – and promptly started hitting Israeli population centres, unlike the earlier rockets which landed harmlessly. The manufactured casus belli has been in constant use since the Roman era.

  93. Res. Diss….

    Whichever of the contributors here who decided to post on the Stormfront forum asking their fellow racists and fascists to come here and attack Habbakkuk…

    That’s something of an accusation. Link please, as I wouldn’t want to search Stormfront without a gas mask.

    Or did you make that up?

  94. Deepgreenpuddock:”a very weak man, who is a moral failure at every level who has sought power for the simple sake of it, and, unhappily for him-was successful in his fantasy.”

    Thank you for that long Post,and I agree with your summing-up of Gordon Brown.

    Komodo: “I have no idea. He didn’t share with me. And I didn’t say he did”

    No you didn’t, as I misread your comments as to pertaining to Brown instead of Blair, yet you do say that you agree with Craig, presumably on Gordon Brown, so in that case we can agree to differ.

    Villager: “Is there anything that Habbabkuk can do for the silencing “ban” to be rescinded?”

    You really have no shame; and neither any of the other Contrarians begging for the reinstatement of one of the most offensive, disruptive & most blatant of trolls in the history of this Blog; it speaks volumes that this obnoxious character is the apparently the best proponent of your views, & that you people are now running around like headless chickens. Beyond pathetic !

  95. The cover is red with a photo of Miliband E, Balls and Brown with McBride in the middle. A British version of mafiosi.

    Power Trip: A Decade of Policy, Plots and Spin by Damian McBride (25 Sep 2013)
    £20.00 £13.20 Hardcover prime
    Available for pre-order. This item will be released on 25 September 2013.
    £11.88 Kindle Edition


    How will Miliband E deal with this matter at the conference starting Sunday in Brighton for four days?

    Meanwhile, we have no Parliament sitting. Both houses are in ‘recess’ until 8 October.

  96. As for the debate over nominating North Queensferry as a circle of Hell, I should point out I spent much of my youth living in South Queensferry. North Queensferry is actually where Brown lives.

  97. O/T Obomber and his cohort are really losing the plot.

    Venezuelan president denied travel through US airspace – Caracas
    September 19, 2013 23:25

    Venezuelan Foreign Minister Elias Jaua told media that an aircraft carrying President Nicolas Maduro was denied a path over Puerto Rico’s airspace.

    President Maduro’s flight, which was to depart for China, was forced to find an alternate flight path according to Jaua, who denounced the act as “an act of aggression.”

    “We have received the information from American officials that we have been denied travel over its airspace,” Jaua said, speaking to reporters during an official meeting with his South African counterpart.

    “We denounce this as yet another aggression on the part of North American imperialism against the government of the Bolivarian Republic,” he added.

    “No one can deny airspace to a plane carrying a president on an international state visit.”

    There is “no valid argument” for denying travel through American airspace, Jaua said, adding that he expected the US to rectify the situation.

    President Maduro was due to arrive in Beijing this weekend for bilateral talks with the Chinese government. Jaua was adamant that the Venezuelan leader would reach his destination, regardless of any perceived interference.

    Though the US has yet to issue an official response, the latest incident will likely add to already strained relations between the two countries.

    In July, the Venezuelan president announced that his government was halting attempts to improve relations with the US. The move was in response to comments made by the newly appointed US Ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, who told a Senate committee that her new role would include challenging the “crackdown on civil society” abroad, including in Venezuela.



  98. http://www.jonathan-cook.net/2013-09-20/israels-chemical-arsenal-under-new-scrutiny/

    Interesting article on Israel’s chemical weapons and WMD

  99. Suppression, and back room deals for enforcing the suppression

    The Zionist Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has admitted to playing a key role in taking down the YouTube page of the Iranian English-language news channel Press TV, and revealed that it is also trying to block Iran’s Spanish-language Hispan TV’s page on the popular social media website.

  100. What is it with politicians and smiling? They smile when they are in the dock facing rape charges, they smile when their disastrous policies mean people do not have food to eat, they smile when they are making war. The only politician I can think of who was so inept that he couldn’t muster a genuine smile, even after professional coaching, is… er… whatsisname? The “I ended boom and bust” fella… used to be PM… Scottish bloke… fucking useless…


  101. I don’t know Brown so I can’t say I hate him. I do despise the way he tells lies to try to defeat the democratic right of the Scottish people. He knows full well devolved powers can be taken back at the drop of a hat, and yet he spins a line about having the Scottish parliament’s position enshrined in the constitution! Perhaps if he addressed the fact of the non-existing constitution, I might give him more credence!

    Shame on all Westminster apologists trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the Scottish people!

  102. Further to recent comments here iro the UN, more from Mary’s RT link @12.38;

    “Dispute over visas ahead of UN summit

    The Venezuelan President also spoke of attempts by the US to set “conditions” on a visa issued to General Wilmer Barrientos, one of Maduro’s ministers who is slated to attend meetings during the UN General Assembly next week.

    “They want to put conditions, if we decide to go to New York…They don’t want to give a visa to my minister,” said Maduro. “Do we want to go as tourists? We’re going to the United Nations. You’re obligated to give visas to all the delegation.”

    Appearing via the television network TeleSUR on Thursday, Maduro indicated that he had directed his foreign minister, Elías Jaua, and Venezuela’s Ambassador to the UN, Samuel Moncada, to “activate all mechanisms” in reference to the visa dispute.

    “US, you are not the UN’s owner. The UN will have to move out of New York,” remarked Maduro.

    He warned that if he has to take “measures” against the government of the US, he would be prepared to take “the most drastic measures necessary” to ensure Venezuelan sovereignty.”

    Funny how the US likes the pretext of accusing others of “playing politics” when it wants to vetos UN resolutions that it doesn’t like.

  103. Most of what Deepgreenpuddock says (at 9.59am)I agree with entirely, so these are minor correctives. I also never met Brown but knew Kirkcaldy well as a Burntisland-based Kirkcaldy High School pupil. Gordon’s father was our school chaplain – a good man with a plummy voice which led Neil Macniven and me into temporary disgrace for collapsing under the pews of St Brycedale’s Church in uncontrollable loud giggles during a particularly sanctimonious prayer. I didn’t feel that Gordon’s credentials as a Raith Rovers supporter were faked. Yes, KHS was a rugby and cricket-playing school. But most of us had deep geographical tribal loyalty to Raith Rovers as the local club. Raith (yellow) was also the name of my school “house”, the others being Balwearie (green), St. Serf’s (blue) and Ravenscraig (red). Our school sports days were held at Stark’s Park.

    However, I do consider Gordon guilty of more subtle dissimulation. Many will remember that on “becoming” Prime Minister, he sentimentally and proudly recalled his school motto as “I will try my utmost”. That was not the motto. Like many Scottish high schools, the motto was a dimly-understood but memorable Latin tag – in our case “Usque conabur”, picked out in bright yellow thread on the badge of every school blazer. If asked what our motto was, we’d always say the words in Latin, however bad we were at the subject, rather than the meaning in English.
    (http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/gordon-browns-school-motto/ )

    So, I’ll agree that he has shown an instinct to claim membership of tribes that he sees as adding to his political clout and to distance himself from links with the flavour of privilege. And, of course, the biggest difference between Brown and Blair is that one was fiercely tribal in his politics, the other just as fiercely anti-tribal. If one takes Iraq as one of their shared follies*, they were each too cowardly to move out of their comfort zones. Brown did not dare risk earning the epithet “disloyal” (even if the party to which he professed loyalty had been hijacked), since that would probably have lost forever his chance of replacing Blair as party leader and PM; and for Blair, being disloyal to deep Labour traditions was almost a bonus; what he could never risk was losing the Papal blessing of POTUS.
    [*There were others – PFI, cozying up to tycoons and greedy bankers, preferring to see the unemployed swelling the numbers of welfare clients indebted to New Labour rather then swelling old-fashioned unemployment statistics.]

  104. Macky: yet you do say that you agree with Craig, presumably on Gordon Brown, so in that case we can agree to differ.

    I should have been clearer. I don’t detest Brown (and agree with Craig there), but that’s a long way from liking him. I have the idea he is a fair constituency MP – and that constituency is not without problems. I might be wrong. No-one to date has had any better ideas than PFI on how the increasing demands on the NHS might be funded: the medicine is getting more expensive, and more people are using it, than was ever imagined by Beveridge. Not that I think PFI is a good idea, but it’s the only one around which someone -in a moment of hopeless optimism- could claim might work.

    Selling off the gold reserves was plain crazy, but Brown saw that the alternative was borrowing….it didn’t save him from having to borrow, either, sadly. To some extent, and opinions must differ on this, I think Brown was in a trap not of his making for much of his time in Cabinet and beyond. Working for a psychopathic megalomaniac can’t be easy, and Brown had to.

  105. Macky siad;

    Funny how the US likes the pretext of accusing others of “playing politics” when it wants to vetos UN resolutions that it doesn’t like.

    US is the byword for hypocrisy, in its latest cocking a snook at the planet and all its habitants, US exceptionalism has resulted in test firing of nuclear capable ICBM on the very same day that the world leaders are gathered to debate the international nuclear weapons disarmament talks!

    The United States is planning to test nuclear missiles next week on the same daytest nuclear missiles next week on the same day that heads of states and foreign ministers from around the world are to hold a high-level meeting on nuclear disarmament at the United Nations headquarters in New York.

  106. Neil Saunders

    20 Sep, 2013 - 1:48 pm

    Tony Blair is a scoundrel and I hate him.

    Gordon Brown is a scoundrel and I hate him.

    You are very tolerant, Craig. Just how bad do people have to be before you dislike them?

  107. There’s another good Labour leader/PM we did not have – Brian Gould who has just been speaking on Boulton on Sky. He stood against John Smith 21 years ago and lost.

    Our loss. Mew Zealand’s gain.


  108. Komodo You speak of the PFI construct benevolently as if we could not have schools and hospitals without relying on the sharks who sell their interests on, sometimes at rising rates of interest. We have plenty of money for wars, Hellfire missiles, two new aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, etc costing £billions and billions.

    The death watch beetles are within the NHS now, eating away at its structure.

  109. Despite Brown being one of the 1980s modernisers, I think he’d have been happier during the post-war consensus with its mixed economy and wealth distribution.

    The neocon consensus is a much more difficult sell. No wonder he looked awkward and uncomfortable.

    And anyway, why are we all talking about him as if he’d just died.

    I’d have preferred something on Syria and whether that presages the end of this shitty neocon period.

  110. So, I’ll agree that he has shown an instinct to claim membership of tribes that he sees as adding to his political clout

    Like The Arctic Monkeys tribe, which is mostly made up of 14-16 year old girls – lots of political clout right there.

    He said he regularly listened to their fist album but could not name a single track, not even the title track, ironically called “Whatever People Say I Am, That’s What I’m Not”, not only that but their catchy little tune “I bet You Look Good On The Dance-floor” had been #1 for quite a while.

    End result; he had to embarrassingly admit later that he in fact did not listen to The Arctic Monkeys but preferred Coldplay instead. No doubt he had memorised the names of albums and tracks but the interviewer didn’t even bother asking him. What a klutz – he can’t even tell lies properly.

  111. I posted the latest PMG report earlier.

    This is what’s happening today in Makhul. Even French diplomats and other nationals are not immune from the Israeli violence and lawlessness.

    Ex Medialens

    Clashes between Israeli soldiers and diplomat convoy in Palestinian village
    Posted by margo on September 20, 2013, 1:00 pm


    Ediz Tiyanşan ‏@Ediz99 1h

    #BREAKING: Clashes on-going between Israeli soldiers and UN/diplomat convoy in the occupied Palestinian village of Makhul
    After 57 structures belonging to Makhul community was demolished on Monday, UN & other int agencies mobilized humanitariann aid for the village


    Ediz Tiyanşan ‏@Ediz99 35m
    @haaretzcom @Jerusalem_Post @ynetnews I know it’s Sukkot, but u might really want to check out what’s going on in occupied village of Makhul

    A french diplomat is now sitting in the truck along w/ senior un official, trying to halt the confiscation. 35 soldiers present w/ riot gear
    ~8 Israeli military jeeps on site. Sound grenades fired. Diplomats forcefully removed from the truck & the area. Humanitarian aid’s blocked

    Unlike #MaviMarmara, this time it’s not just civil society, but with actual diplomats challenging the arbitrary Israeli occupation!

    A truck full of tents & water was escorted by a dipl. convoy of reps from france, ireland, uk, spain, greece, brazil, australia, sweden, EU

  112. Craig,

    There is something telling in the events occurring around the change over of PM from Bliar to Gordon Brown.

    If you recall, Gordon Brown ‘took over’ the PM role on 27 June 2007, & within the next 2 days there was the ‘Al Queda inspired attacks of the ‘Tiger Tiger’ device/rickshaw escape baloney on 29 June 2007 & then the Glasgow Airport ‘attack’ on 30 June 2007.

    The timing of these events is very suspicious, particularly when you consider that on 22 April 2007, an article appeared in the Sunday Times stating:

    Al-Qaeda ‘planning big British attack’
    Another plot could be timed to coincide with Tony Blair stepping down as prime minister, an event described by Al-Qaeda planners as a “change in the head of the company”.

    It turns out that it was a disgruntled Met Police employee (Thomas Lund-Lack) who leaked the info to the journalist Dipesh Gadher, he ‘was annoyed with [how his work] was being run.

    Thomas Lack Lund was jailed under the Official Secrets Act.

    What a load of bobbins…….

  113. Yawn… bring back Habbabkuk. The inability to reserve judgement is the most prominent aspect of human irrationality. The guy questioned some cherished beliefs here, for the most part politely unless provoked.

    Go on Mary, call me a troll ;-)

  114. bert 20 Sep, 2013 – 2:38 pm

    I just assumed that was all part of ‘Project Gordon’, the overt efforts of the spin-meisters to fashion a gold nugget out of a turd. They had a whole load of ‘media events’ specially engineered with the aim of enhancing his profile as a statesman and world leader, they even lined up endorsements from Kofi Annan and Nelson Mandela in their desperation to make him look good.


  115. Komodo You speak of the PFI construct benevolently

    I don’t.

    as if we could not have schools and hospitals without relying on the sharks who sell their interests on, sometimes at rising rates of interest.

    By borrowing indefinitely and punting the rising interest into the wide blue yonder for younger people to pay, maybe.

    We have plenty of money for wars, Hellfire missiles, two new aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, etc costing £billions and billions.

    We don’t, actually. Either. This too is borrowed. I agree our priorities are completely wrong, but the money doesn’t actually exist. It has to be invented. That is what banks do. Let’s have some realpolitik here. Idealism isn’t achieving anything.

    The death watch beetles are within the NHS now, eating away at its structure.
    And your solution is….?

  116. Komodo 20 Sep, 2013 – 1:30 pm

    Macky: yet you do say that you agree with Craig, presumably on Gordon Brown, so in that case we can agree to differ.

    ” … No-one to date has had any better ideas than PFI on how the increasing demands on the NHS might be funded: …”

    Mary suggested one idea – use the billions we squander on making other countries miserable.

    Here’s another – the government builds our hospitals and schools by borrowing and repaying the money at market rates, rather than letting the vampire consortiums build them and be repaid at many times the market rate.

    Here’s a third – our government takes control of our currency from the bankers and we won’t need to borrow the money.

  117. Oops, remove second sentence above and it makes more sense.

  118. Evgueni:”Yawn… bring back Habbabkuk”

    If you are bored about a discussion of politics on a political blog, then I guess you should not be here then; if looking for petty arguments, name calling, vicious insults,etc, then perhaps you should visit Harry’s Place & try posting a few pro-Palestinian comments.

  119. What’s your agenda then Evgueni? Have you been around here for the last 10 months and seen what was going on?

  120. Komodo said;

    And your solution is….?

    Take back the monetary control and let the state issue money based on its fungible assets, included the human asset.

    Repeal the lopsided taxation laws, and the excuses; millionaires will run away! Good riddance to them, they are just making the place untidy.

    We have enough funds to provide a reasonable quality of life for our citizens, if it were not for the banksters and their cohorts creating the current chaos for their own benefit, to purloin our hard earned wages.

    But that is not Realpolitik either is it?

    Evgueni said;

    bring back Hab….. The inability to reserve judgement is the most prominent aspect of human irrationality

    Why don’t you set up a blog and dedicate it to the cause, and enjoy the reservations to the full?

    No need to subject the rest of this blog’s users to the tortuous “musings” of that character.

  121. A 22 year old Palestinian has been shot and killed in a Jenin refugee camp by the Israelis.

    There are four uses of the word ‘militant’ in this BBC report and the usual ‘Israel disputes it’ phrasing.


  122. “Here’s a third – our government takes control of our currency from the bankers and we won’t need to borrow the money.”

    Yup. That’s the one.

    Can’t do it though until the banker’s threat to the financial system is extinguished.

    It would help if people were more generally aware of how evil these bankers are. There’s a kind of conciousness of that growing, but it needs to be felt as you feel the activity of any other thief weho steals from you.

  123. Good, A Node. At least that’s positive. Re diverting the military budget:

    There IS a requirement for defence, and there is an irreduceable level of expenditure we need for that. Not all of the budget, by any means, would be available. And I stress, that money is just as dependent on the criminality of bankers as existing NHS funding is. The problem is much wider than the NHS. The options are:

    1. Borrow money, and pay back much more money eventually. We’re up to our ears already. And we don’t have the option of borrowing at market rates. The more bonds we issue, the less value they have.
    2. Fiddle the books and pump up a housing bubble.

    Here’s a third – our government takes control of our currency from the bankers and we won’t need to borrow the money.

    How does that work, then? Please do not confuse GDP with national income in your reply. What are we going to make/sell or who are we going to con into paying us if we do have control of the currency? Enough to pay for the NHS, even? Can you justify the assertion that we could live at anything like our current standard* without a bunch of financial chicanery? I can’t, much as I would like to.

    *apart from the obvious victims of the system, needless to say.

  124. Komodo 20 Sep, 2013 – 3:19 pm

    “Can you justify the assertion that we could live at anything like our current standard* without a bunch of financial chicanery?”

    Others have put it better than me …..

    “The government should create, issue and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers. By adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity.”

    Abraham Lincoln, US President 1861-5. He created government issue money during the American Civil War and was assassinated.

    “That this House considers that the continued issue of all the means of exchange – be they coin, bank-notes or credit, largely passed on by cheques – by private firms as an interest-bearing debt against the public should cease forthwith; that the Sovereign power and duty of issuing money in all forms should be returned to the Crown, then to be put into circulation free of all debt and interest obligations…”

    Captain Henry Kerby MP, in an Early Day Motion tabled in 1964.

    “If the American people ever allow private banks to control issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”

    Thomas Jefferson in the debate over The Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809).

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”

    Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France.

  125. No Scottish independence for Gordo!

    13 Sept 2013

    Former prime minister Gordon Brown will argue that Scotland’s pensioners are better off within the Union when he gives a speech in his constituency.

    Mr Brown will tell an audience in Kirkcaldy tomorrow that older people are assured a better deal on both state and private pensions with the pooled resources and shared risk that comes with being part of the UK.

    The MP will address Scotland’s rising elderly population and what he believes are the implications of independence for pensioners.

    Speaking at Kirkcaldy’s Old Kirk as part of the Fife Talks lecture series, Mr Brown will say: “Pensioners and prospective pensioners will ask whether – having contributed all their lives to their pensions paid from the UK Treasury – it makes any sense to have separate Scottish pensions, particularly when the average spending on all pensioner benefits per head of the Scottish population is £1,380 per year against only £1,318 in England.”


  126. Komodo 20 Sep, 2013 – 8:50 am
    “Blair claims not to be offshore…I find this interesting. Neither the Guardian nor the Mail does.”

    Unfortunately I am only able to skim through here currently and feel I am missing the larger picture of your ongoing blair comment series. Please consider one large precis when you finish!

    Seems like an opportune moment to remember that we all can help with the pursuit of blair, our very own home grown, real life, war criminal. As someone else said here not longf ago, what better way to spend a tenner.



  127. All true, A. Node.
    Foreseen (often) but never forestalled. Every so often usurers get proscribed or chucked out, but they always come back, because they require repayment in the indefinite future for something nice right now. Even the austere Salafists of Saudi are enmeshed in their tentacles, and Islam forbids usury. Scratch a holyrolling Biblebelter, and you find a hedge fund manager. And I will only hint at the elephant in the room, and its history in Western finance.

    I don’t think humanity at large has the moral fibre to do without them. That’s why I say, ‘realpolitik’ The best you can hope to do is contain their activities, and as they have everybody by the nuts at the moment, that’s going to be very, very difficult. So, methods, rather than objectives (agreed) or complaints (fruitless), are the priority.

  128. Hi, Phil,
    Thanks for that. Blair seems to hit the MSM every couple of years, and in between times gets on with his extravagant and self-serving lifestyle unencumbered by comment. The MSM’s coverage of his business affairs has been less than forensic, and while a couple of tax accountants have had a go, they seem to have lacked follow-up. I’ll repeat one appeal, if I may. If anyone has access to Gibraltar Companies House I would be grateful for anything on the two companies I mentioned. Registering is a performance, and I don’t know what I can get even if I do buy in. The company names suggest they are integral to the empire: I need to prove it.

  129. Broon is just another British Nationalist that lies to his own people for the benefit of the British State. He might even marry a woman if he thought it would help him become Prime Minister.
    When asked by a US reporter where he was born, he replied ‘North Britain’, he was so ashamed of his roots.

  130. Sorry, Komodo.
    I haven’t directly answered your question above :
    “Can you justify the assertion that we could live at anything like our current standard* without a bunch of financial chicanery?”

    The quotes demonstrate that for a couple of centuries, control of the money supply has been recognised by the movers and shakers as crucial to a nation’s financial well-being. Why this is no longer common knowledge is a testament to the control of the bankers over the media.
    The history of the West can be understood as a battle for the right to issue money. The bankers won. The battle continues – Iraq, Lybia, soon Syria, all losing national control of their banking systems.

    In simple terms, as Napoleon said above, the lender controls the debtor. The bankers who issue our currency do so by lending it to us. Every pound that is created is lent to us with interest. The system is designed to plunge us into deeper and deeper debt.

    Then there’s boom and bust, easy if you control the money supply. The banks lend money freely, everybody borrows, the banks stop lending and there’s no longer enough money in the system for everybody to keep up the repayments, some go bancrupt, the banks seize the assets, repeat indefinitely.

    “I don’t think humanity at large has the moral fibre to do without them.”

    It’s not a matter of moral fibre, any more than it’s true to say “I don’t think Iraqis have the moral fibre to control their own nation.” Their rights have been taken from them by brute force, ours by subterfuge and treachery, but if we ever hope to control our own destinies, we have to, before anything else, regain control of the right to issue our own currency.

  131. Thanks deepgreen and Ian Orr and Tony F, I think we could probably get a consensus re the issue of PFI’s. They are now used for some medium sized spending on County councils, it takes a little digging but if you know where to look and do some maths and you will discover that there are small PFI’s as well, beyond their designated use, aims and objectives.

    Thanks also to Passerby for pointing out that there is really nowhere for these Millionaires to run to, if he who runs the treasury and tax dep. had his shit together.

    ‘bad value for money’ said the Audit committee, I can only agree. PPI’s they are also not immune to being in favour of private companies, and if they go bust we pay all, the wider public.

    So why not

    Public Finance Initiatives, local municipal share ownership, you and me, financing infrastructure in return for a share in it. Councils and councillors becoming accountable and what is over and above the monies raised will come directly from Government, at an affordable rate. This model has one advantage, those small shareholders feel responsible enough to use whatever they financed, a small bond is very likely to be rewarded with overall success, sustainable success.
    And in the word sustainability lies the crux.

    Any system that strives towards this elusive goal, should be based on a financial structure that is based on real values, with an evolutionary regular adjustment according to enhancement that has occurred, or the degradation for that matter. By increasing diversity, in nature as well as in business you are enhancing diversity and increase the value it resembles overall, and for the next generation.
    products that re-use the waste they produce for new products,a circular, zero pollution production system, second and third use engineering, cable less electricity transmission and generation, all these are sustainable ideas that would reduce our impact overall.

    If banks base their deals on uncertainties and bet on these uncertainties to kick in, what it seems this is one of their current games, then that is unsustainable banking, confusing banking with third rate bookmaking.

    Without a sustainable financial system we will not see a sustainable society emerge, the banking of sustainable values has to underline a just and equal community, smaller rather than bigger.

    But then, you knew all this. defence spending is about as unsustainable as it gets.

  132. Here, have a smile

    Pixelation error at BBC gives UKIP leader Nigel Farage ‘Hitler’ moustache


  133. Ben Franklin at 12.35 am. I signed this and urge others to do so. I also put the following message on my Facebook page.

    “Help stop money-grabbing conglomerates (in this case Russian) from exploiting the earth’s resources and future generations.”


  134. It’s not a matter of moral fibre….

    But it is.

    To do without usury, you’re abandoning personal credit. Not just you, but anyone who wants a house or car without having the money to pay for it. Anyone whose washing machine goes phut after the housekeeping’s run out, and indeed anyone who aspires to a more than derisory rate of interest on their savings.

    You, maybe: me, I pretty well live without credit, and I don’t buy stuff I don’t need with money I ain’t got. I am very conscious I am in an eccentric minority in this. Maybe the answer is education, education, education. Why should the devil have the best marketing slogans?

  135. During the last few days, matters xenophobic have been centre stage yet again.

    First came the “Burka or Niqab” the pontificates were talking about it as though it is a fashion statement, and also in this day and age of unreason, the catch phrase was; “balaclava”! Is it right; If a criminal wants to wear his balaclava in the courts?! Was the question. Is it right for cheese to look like chalk too? There must be something done about it, either put some food dye in the cheese or colour pigment in chalk I say!

    Then it was the NHS getting it in the neck. Again! This time about those staff wearing a “Burka or Niqab” attending patients. Although there never was any indication of how many employees are in fact wearing the errant article?

    Of course whilst kick down and suck up policies have been in full swing; there has been the news that smoking is to be banned in prisons. Evidently prisons are up for the privatisation next, and best to prepare the grounds for the up coming riots and the subsequent condemned building status of the prisons, which have banned smokes!

    However, this is not enough, and the public is just not rising to the bait. After the defeat on Syria, and the court ruling that the female could keep her “Burka or Niqab” on and the Birmingham college set back. All this Muslim bashing getting nowhere, and Syria proving the case in point.

    What do you know, the shrill hate campaign can be notched up higher, if the “internet”, “paedophile”, and “foreign hoards” can be conflated! DM has come up trumps with this farticle;

    The leader giving the figures for the last two years (evidently the low figures won’t cut much mustard, so best use aggregate over few years) It starts with this;

    Children as young as eight are being targeted online by foreign paedophile gangs who believe that Britain’s ‘liberal’ values make them easy prey.

    Further we find the revelation;

    Experts said the paedophiles saw Britain as an easy target. Stephanie McCourt of CEOP said: ‘First of all it’s the English language.
    ‘They are able to threaten the children if they can communicate with them. English is a really popular universal language

    This is of course a rearguard action, because to consider the “foreign hoards” at the cyber gate, would be pretty meaningless without their mastery of the English language.

    ‘Second, the offenders have actually said that because they perceive the UK as a very free and liberal society, they think that they will have more success in targeting UK children.’

    Note the “Liberal” and “free society” (I should cocoa too) getting peppered around just for the good measures.

    Then comes the solution;

    Teenage girls will welcome David Cameron’s plans for online porn filters because they are sick of seeing it, according to an expert who has studied the effect of web porn on young people.

    Of course added to this are the best practices;

    She suggested the Government could go further, perhaps bringing in the German system under which adults can only access online porn by signing a form at their post office.

    Although the good doctor fails to mention; the form is for the TV viewing (ie no porn channels made available on the cable TV unless signed for), not the internet. However, what does it matter TV, Internet, or the top shelf, for that matter. We need to ban everything pronto, and do it quick because these perverted foreign hoards, have caught the sleepy liberals nodding off, and are doing all manner of wrong doings, and raiding our cyberland. Oh the humanity, of it all, when will the Cyber Defence League come to the aid of the Beleaguered English?

    Best censor the internet and make sure all order and harmony is back. Then attack Syria, and other Muslim countries for sure without any hassle.

  136. @Dreoilin, did you see my post to you on the previous thread a little earlier ?

  137. Habbabkuk was an amateur in the forum-sliding stakes compared to the post-midnight ramblings of the one and only Tony Opmoc.Tony was The Master.

    I propose a celebrity deathmatch between the two.There could only be one winner.

    Hi Tony,hope youre keeping well :-)

  138. Galloway v Gissin on the Iraq war on Al Jazeera.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Mj8PdORKI&feature=player_embedded 24 mins

  139. I said;

    when will the Cyber Defence League come to the aid of the Beleaguered English?

    Further research ie the next click on the original farticle page goes to this story about “LtezGo Hunting” a Leicestershire group of ‘paedophile hunters’ going around doing what the vigilante do. So there is a CDL in place already.

  140. “Pixelation error at BBC gives UKIP leader Nigel Farage ‘Hitler’ moustache”

    Except on Farage it looks no more menacing than Charlie Chaplin’s – I think we should revert back to the original name and call it a ‘toothbrush moustache’ seeing as hardly anyone knows who Hitler is these days.

  141. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 4:56 pm

  142. Komodo, I’m not talking about usury, that’s a different kettle of worms. I’m talking about control of the money supply at source. It’s fundamental to any economy. Whether that economy incorporates usury is secondary.
    Well, OK, the ‘boom and bust’ part of my previous post was about usury, but for the bankers, that’s the icing on the cake – the real power is issuing the currency.

    “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks…will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” – Thomas Jefferson in the debate over the Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809)

  143. A couple of commenters have raised the question of Gordon Brown’s selling of the gold at knockdown prices


    may be of interest. If correct, was he enthusiastically for it or was he intimidated into doing it?

  144. Jonangus Mackay

    20 Sep, 2013 - 6:31 pm

    Case solved. That, as now turns out, he was in receipt of such a steady flow of venomous & circulation-boosting leaks from the McBridal suite now explains—to me, at any rate—why Paul Dacre was for so long such a strangely ardent fan of Gordon Brown.

  145. Jonangus Mackay

    20 Sep, 2013 - 6:33 pm

    Meanwhile. Not just GCHQ. ‘It’s like our whole bodies were hacked.’ How UK’s secret police use sex as a surveillance tactic. NB: One of those who fell in a big way for a hairy plod was McLibel heroine Helen Steel.


  146. Jonangus Mackay

    20 Sep, 2013 - 6:43 pm

    And. ‘Spied Upon.’ Preview screenings from October 9:


  147. Deepgreenpuddock (thankyou)has given us insight into the antecedent percipience that formed a path out of the conflicting mindset of Gordon Brown. A direction judged to establish Gordon Brown as an ‘eminence’ in the annals of history not to be forgotten.

    An insight into the informative threads that formed that judgement and moved Brown away from the antimilitarist influence of James Maxton towards the ideas of Gerald Kaufman, Robert Rubin, Pax Americana, neo-economics, NWO doctrine, the ruling class and corporate elite is clear.

    Gordon Brown would become meshed into his father’s passion for Tel Aviv and ensnared into the exclusivity of the USUKIS axis as the center of a cohesive regional political economy and an elite international order.

    To Brown and Blair the post war creation of a system of worldwide economic, political, and military dependencies/protectorates would be preserved at ANY cost(the status quo).

    This system has evolved into a welfare system for US and British based multinational corporations and the status quo maintained by a false ‘war on Terror’ and preemptive wars.

    Under this system, the corporate states have been given effective control over many of the internal and external policies of its dependent client states, laying down the pro-corporate economic and political rules that they must follow. These rules on open markets and open investments-including dollar dominance, IMF/World Bank policies, huge capital flows into Britain and America and the correct pricing of oil-have greatly benefited corporations controlled by the ruling class, helping make Britain and America the world’s most powerful economic actors.

    To the British people the vote in Parliament on Syria marked a positive step towards peace. I am convinced this temporal event must build into a persistent and metaphysical social movement that can effectively put democracy and a peaceful foreign policy on the national agenda. Something more basic than a mere switch in the means of empire is needed at this juncture in human history.

    A social movement that undertakes the kind of bold and uncompromising militancy required to put key issues on the agenda and to effect a fundamental reconstruction of society.

    That means -“health care for all, full employment at a living wage, excellent public education, good retirement benefits, the right of workers to freely organize unions, affordable decent housing, ecological sanity, economic democracy, civil liberties, an end to all racism, sexism, and discrimination, fundamental electoral reform, and the democratization of the media. A unified social movement to demand a working people’s agenda needs to be born.”


  148. “@Dreoilin, did you see my post to you on the previous thread a little earlier ?”

    Don’t think so, Macky. I’ll have a look after I’ve eaten.

    “Pixelation error at BBC gives UKIP leader Nigel Farage ‘Hitler’ moustache”

    “Except on Farage it looks no more menacing than Charlie Chaplin’s”


  149. BrianFujisan

    20 Sep, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    Wonder what Mr Broon will make of this in his upcoming Speech, His cohorts are just so blatantly at it now – breaking they Law looks like

    From i what i reckon to be a rational wee site – Wings over Scotland – they are persistent at calling out Media dissinfo on the Yes campaigne Check this out


  150. Gorgeous George is another mixed up British Nationalist. He spouts out volumes of words on the rights of peoples to govern themselves, apart from his country of birth.
    The Westminster money machine has deep pockets.
    Every despot has a court jester.

  151. Galloway left Dundee with only the cash in his pockets. There were rumours of the local Labour party accounts being quite low after he left. Maybe they missed his money gathering skills? Mention the name of Galloway in a Dundee pub, and you’ll often be met with a wry chuckle and a wink.
    Despite never having worked a day in his life, he seems to be rather well off.

  152. How would Obama fare by this standard?

  153. BrianFujisan

    20 Sep, 2013 - 7:16 pm

    The Sickening Israeli Bully, thugs are Fucking untouchable

    THE WORLD must DO Something

    Photo: French aid convoy diplomat dragged on ground by Israeli soldiers


  154. Thanks Macky. Replied to you now on the other thread.

  155. “THE WORLD must DO Something”

    It would be a start if the French did something like, I don’t know, have a word with the Israeli ambassador perhaps?

    There is a precedent; when Kevin Rudd was incensed that Aussia passports were used by Mossad in the murder of a Palestinian in Dubai he called in the Israeli ambassador for a carpeting.

    I’m sure Rudd’s speedy exit from power following the vicous media campaign led by Murdoch’s “Australian” shortly after was totally unrelated.

  156. “Plenty of money for weapons in Syria, little for refugees
    Oxfam reports that many countries are far short of their expected humanitarian contributions for Syria, with Russia and Qatar providing only 3 percent.

    By Nigel Wilson, Correspondent / September 19, 2013

    Throughout the conflict both Russia and Qatar have reportedly provided arms for opposing sides of the conflict – Russia to the government, Qatar to Islamist rebel factions. But international aid agency Oxfam found that the two have committed just 3 percent each of their fair share to humanitarian appeals for Syria, measured as a proportion of national income and overall wealth.

    (A table summarizing Oxfam’s findings is at the bottom of this story).

    Qatar has promised to channel $2.8 million in humanitarian aid through the UN, while Oxfam estimates its fair share at $78.7 million. Russia has promised $17.8 million in humanitarian aid, against a fair share calculation of $620 million.”


  157. BrianFujisan

    20 Sep, 2013 - 8:03 pm


    Not sure it would make one iota of a difference if all the ambassadors from the Aid effort Countries have a word.

    Diplomats from France, Britain, Spain, Ireland, Australia and the European Union’s political office, turned up on Friday with more supplies. As soon as they arrived, about a dozen Israeli army jeeps converged on them, and soldiers told them not to unload their truck.

    At at least they did’nt get shot in the back of the head this Time ( The Mavi Marmara )

  158. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 8:09 pm

    RIP Deep Impact. Quite a coincidence it failed now.


  159. The bastard entity that to date has been kept above all laws, above all that is holy, and immune from any criticism. Yet again is helped to continue stockpiling A Bombs, and H Bombs, whilst IAEA as impotent as ever sits idly by letting it all happen.

    This fucking sickening state of affairs exists, because justice, decency, morality, and integrity have long been buried and there is only a world of fucking shit left in their wake.

    West blocks draft resolution against Israel’s nukes at IAEA

    Western countries have once again blocked a resolution proposed by Arab states to the UN nuclear agency criticizing Israel’s undeclared nuclear weapons.

    The draft was put forward by 32 countries during the International Atomic Energy Agency’s annual General Conference in the Austrian capital, Vienna, on Friday to criticize Israel’s refusal to acknowledge its possession of nuclear weapons.

    The proposed resolution was defeated by 51 votes against and 43 in favor. Thirty-two countries abstained.

    Fact that a bunch of crazed ziofuckwits, whom relentlessly and without exception have attacked all their neighbouring countries at one time or other. These blood thirsty, emotionally unstable wankers are left hanging on to their nuclear weapons stockpiles, with only eight votes. Forty three countries voting for the resolution, and thirty two countries going for a beer when the voting was under way.

    Another fucking triumph for the carpetbaggers, pimps, and cunts.

  160. Ref Farage. I hold no candle for him. Was the pixelated moustache a ‘mistake’?
    The gangsters in charge are rather worried at UKIP’s growing popularity I reckon.

    See this about Ch 4 ‘News’ from a Medialens contributor.

    Ch4 News speaks truth to power

    Posted by Sherwoodian on September 20, 2013, 7:51 pm

    Ch4 News really laid into UKIP and Nigel Farage in particular, following on from yesterday, esp concerning the crimes of racism and sexism. All very good.

    BUT! Contrast that with how they deal with real power and those commiting far worse crimes, the supreme war crime and crimes against humanity.

    They have the bite of a dead sheep when confronted with the likes of Blair and the eternally mendacious Campbell, then they are the picture of Uriah Heep.

    What a bunch of hypocrites.

    Perfectly stated, S (nom)
    Posted by John Hilley on September 20, 2013, 8:03 pm, in reply to “Ch4 News speaks truth to power”


    I agree.

  161. BrianFujisan

    20 Sep, 2013 - 8:35 pm

    Cheers for the link Fedup

    Even with a Simmering tinderbox in the east Med, they still stick two fingers up at Peace, bet some Bribery / threats were involved
    usually are

    to me the final nail in U.N coffin was Libya, were our same terrorists did horrendous crimes to innocent civilian’s,( of ALL Ages, Same as Syria ) and African Worker’s. All based on more Lies, All of it Fermented by we, in the west.

    Turns the Stomach

  162. Two good pieces on Dissident Voice

    Israel’s Chemical Arsenal under New Scrutiny
    A plan to inspect and destroy Syria’s chemical weapons has focused new attention on Israel’s undeclared WMDs

    by Jonathan Cook / September 20th, 2013

    Israeli officials are reported to be increasingly nervous that international efforts to destroy Syria’s chemical weapons might serve as a prelude to demands on Israel to eliminate its own, undeclared weapons of mass destruction.

    Israel maintains a posture it terms ‘ambiguity’ on the question of whether it possesses either nuclear or chemical weapons. But Israel is widely believed to have a large arsenal of nuclear bombs, concealed from international scrutiny, and there are strong suspicions that it has secretly developed a chemical weapons programme.



    How Shlomo Sand Ceased to be a Jew – or Did He?
    by Gilad Atzmon / September 20th, 2013

    Sand’s latest book, How I Ceased To Be A Jew, (translated from Hebrew) is a tragic testimony made by a morally awakened Israeli Jew who comes to realise that his spiritual, cultural and political existence is contaminated with Judeo-centric exclusivism and is fuelled by ethno-centric racism. Shlomo Sand decides to stop being a Jew – but has he succeeded?

    Sand, as we all know, is a wonderful writer; witty, innovative, poetic and fluent, his voice is personal, at times funny, occasionally sarcastic and always genuinely pessimistic.


  163. BrianFujisan

    20 Sep, 2013 - 8:49 pm


    Thanks for The link

    After losing contact with the spacecraft last month, mission controllers spent several weeks trying to uplink commands to reactivate its onboard systems. Although the exact cause of the loss is not known, analysis has uncovered a potential problem with computer time tagging that could have led to loss of control for Deep Impact’s orientation. That would then affect the positioning of its radio antennas, making communication difficult, as well as its solar arrays, which would in turn prevent the spacecraft from getting power and allow cold temperatures to ruin onboard equipment, essentially freezing its battery and propulsion systems.

    ALL very Fishy

    Considering they were able to fix Voyager 2’s stuck Platform, as it raced towards the Uranus, and Neptune systems, and a good thing too, for the foto’s from out there at the last two gas giants

  164. Israel is a mad dog, no doubt about that, it is the image that they cultivate. They are getting even madder by the day now that Iran is receiving positive noises from the EU and US following the election of Rouhani and the tentative reproachment with Russia/Syria.

    The fact that Israel, a nuclear armed nation with multiple delivery systems, is “warning the West” about Iran’s “imminent” (six months Netanyahu said recently) acquirement of a nuclear device should be treated for what it is, a thinly veiled threat against the West (The Samson Option), especially in light of the continued insistence from Iran that they have not been seeking a nuclear weapon since 2005 (when they ended weapons research which had been started by the Shah under US approval), which is also backed up by the IAEA who have conducted the most detailed searches possible and have not found a single atom of weapons grade fissile material.

    A nuke going off in Europe or the US is a nightmare that certain religous psycopaths of all types would love to see as it would also herald the start of WW3 aka the second coming of Jesus/the first coming of the Jewish Messiah/the return of the moslem Mahdi*.

    This is the danger of prophetic doomsday religions – given enough time and followers they become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Unfortunately one only has to look at Jonestown as an example of where this sort of thinking ultimately ends; that many people would rather face certain death than face an unknown fear.

    *delete as appropriate according to the geographical location in which you were born.

  165. Thanks Brian, you are certainly correct, Libya was the war that never was. However the war in Libya proved beyond any shadow of a doubt, that any kind of an agreement or alliance entered into with the US, et al is a worthless enterprise, that awaits collapse, and nullification.

    Gaddafi was the kind of a dancing bear that obliged his captors and went along with the Lockerbie extortion and paid out billions, signed over the oil exploration concessions, and even went so far as playing up the nuclear weapons (wmd) dog and pony show of handing over the “Nukes” he never had.

    Notwithstanding any of the above, ended up with “rebels” poking sticks up his butt, humiliating him and killing him. Fact is Gaddafi despite playing along had out lived his usefulness and his end was sought;We came, we saw, he died

    The pleasure in the psychotics bitch’s face says it all.

    Fact that here we have a known rouge entity in zionistan, that has in its possession at least four hundred nuclear bombs and hydrogen bombs, with the relevant delivery vehicles. This is not considered any fucking WMD, and is not thought of dangerous. Hence the defeat of the resolution in IAEA to even acknowledge the fact that this bastard entity needs to be reigned in.

  166. Christ, Fedup, I’ve just clicked on that link. I’m speechless! What a cow!

  167. Thanks for that EI link Brian.

    RT have it too.

    EU diplomats manhandled by Israeli troops in West Bank
    September 20, 2013 16:33

    Israeli soldiers detain a Palestinian during scuffles following an attempt by European diplomats to deliver goods to locals in the West Bank herding community of Khirbet al-Makhul, in the Jordan Valley September 20, 2013. (Reuters/Abed Omar Qusini)


    To say these actions by the IDF are egregious would be to use an euphemism.

    Nothing on OUR corporate media though. I even wonder if ZBC have any reporting from Israel these days. Jon Donnison is now in Australia and Jeremy Bowen is concentrated on Syria. Katya Adler was speaking from the London newsroom the other day so it seems she is out of it.

  168. Rabbi Emmanuel Israel Jr.

    20 Sep, 2013 - 9:38 pm

    “many people would rather face certain death than face an unknown fear”

    Not sure that’s what Jonestown proves,


  169. Ben, Brian,

    Voyagers are nuclear powered. They won’t die if they are pointing the wrong way. Unlike Deep Impact which is/was solar powered. Lose sun point for too long and you’re dead.

    From reading the NASA statement about time-tags I have a suspicion they may have transmitted a bad command to it during the ISON instructions uplink.

    Curiously before they lost contact with it controllers had announced that due to low staff levels they might not be able to instruct it to image ISON in the first place. They seemingly overcame that difficulty only to then almost immediately lose the spacecraft. So my best guess at the moment is that they accidentally killed it. Or possibly someone intentionally transmitted a fatal sequence to it I suppose.

  170. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 10:52 pm

    Leonid Elenin’s website did the memorial for Comet Elenin, AlcAnon. As you know there were many suggestions about the intent and origin of that heavenly body.


    Deep Impact was never intended for long operation times, but when will Hubble bring us Images of ISON? (blackout from May to October)

    LADEE seems an abrupt mission. NASA does not cite the mission conception date. But there was this…….http://news.msn.com/science-technology/meteoroid-strike-on-moon-triggers-giant-explosion?ocid=ansnews11

  171. “The strength of a democracy can be measured by the way it treats its dissidents. Free speech zones are not the lungs of liberty, they’re straitjackets from corporate hell.”

    Can give you a link, but I won’t [for obvious reasons].

  172. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 11:03 pm

    Seeing this story repeatedly is reassuring..

    Disintegration of Comet ISON Would Pose No Threat to Earth
    Space.com – 12 hours ago

    While a breakup would be bad news for skywatchers hoping for a great show from ISON — which was billed as a “comet of the century” …

    Even a behaving badly Comet ISON would pose no threat to Earth
    NBCNews.com – 2 hours ago

    Break-up of Comet ISON would be no danger to Earth
    Yahoo! Malaysia News (blog) – 6 hours ago

  173. [for obvious reasons]

    Do as I fucking tell you and don’t fucking do as I do! Hypocrisy abound, it is followed by the proviso; diseased lobsters are diseased ……

  174. Ben,

    LADEE was announced early 2008. If they were aware of ISON then they kept it very quiet.

    Ridiculous name ISON. Named after the Russian “International Scientific Optical Network” which discovered it. Okay it’s not the official name (which is C/2012 S1) but the “International Scientific Optical Network” has discovered many other objects before – including Elenin.

    Strikes me if the “ISON” network had really discovered something bad then you might try to associate the name ISON with something benign if you wanted to throw people off the track of anything more dangerous the ISON network had actually discovered.

    And the name Elenin “ELE Nin” – when ELE stood for Extinction Level Event in that movie. Crazy names these Russians have :-)

  175. Ben,

    Btw, a lot of people have a hard time believing the Russian astronomer was really born “Leonid Elenin”. Maybe just the universe’s idea of a joke though!

  176. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 11:19 pm

    $80 million? A bargain for sure, this LADEE.

    Is your upcoming birthday still a tight sphincter? Something is in the air for October.

    Are you being tongue-in-cheeky wrt Elenin? What’s his story?

  177. @ Nevermind,

    Off topic.

    More on the ‘safety’ of Fukushima.

    Aka ‘We’re all equal, but I wear a red ‘safety’ hat…’

  178. ‘Decide With Your Own Eyes: The Videos of the Chemical Attacks in Syria Show Tampered Scenes’

    (I’ve seen clearer images elsewhere, but this is from boilingfrogs)


  179. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 11:33 pm

    Daniel; Check this out. Since 1900 over 28,000 mag 8 and above quakes in Japan. The Worldwide leader in EQ.


  180. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 11:39 pm

    The latest excuse du jour for Regional DHS exercises. MERS, Impact, now cyber-hacking.


  181. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 11:45 pm

    Obama determined to save us all from CW. (DU and WP, not so much)

    “The speech will focus on the “need for the international community to stand up to the use of chemical weapons,” Rhodes said. But that is only “one part of a broader challenge in Syria,” which also includes the “need for a political solution that removes Assad from power.”

    Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/un-treaties/323771-obama-to-make-case-for-quick-action-on-syria-at-un#ixzz2fTYqUqW3
    Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

  182. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 11:46 pm

    AlcAnon; Are you Brit. or Expat? You are a cagey one.

  183. This is how the bought and paid for corporate media reports;

    Israeli Troops ‘Rough Up’ EU Diplomats

    A French woman diplomat has told how she was dragged from a truck and thrown to the ground by Israeli soldiers as she attempted to deliver emergency aid to Palestinians.

    The soldiers threw sound grenades at aid workers and European diplomats, before manhandling them, then seizing their truck piled with tents and aid and driving it away.

    The French diplomat Marion Castaing said: “They dragged me out of the truck and forced me to the ground with no regard for my diplomatic immunity.

    “This is how international law is being respected here.”

    Just imagine if a “UN Inspector” had been so much as got a hold of by the arm in Syria what would the headlines be?

  184. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Sep, 2013 - 11:58 pm

    AlcAnon; Elenin is bad enough, but LEOnid? Since ISON is in the constellation LEO. it makes for great copy and headlines for those who see signs.

    I don’t know if I can handle all the synchronicity.

  185. Little Brother

    21 Sep, 2013 - 12:11 am

    Rhodes. That’s what’s great about hiring some washout from a shitty creative-writing program. He’s a blank slate: utterly ignorant about international law and trained to make shit up. US democracy is such a joke that even the power behind the throne is an empty suit.

  186. @ BrianFujisan,

    Off topic: sometimes you give someone a piece of rope and they create beautiful decorations that enhance the overall living experience of one’s home; others just hang themselves.

  187. In a 2006 speech at Chatham House Gordon Brown chaired a meeting called, ‘Meeting the Terrorist challenge where he outlined the governments Counter-Terrorism Strategy following the London bombings. In that speech he outlined the dangers of radicalisation solely from contact with the Internet.

    GB said, “..we have to argue not just against terrorism and terrorists but also against the violent perversion of a peaceful religious faith. And we have to recognise that the very existence of the internet and the exchange of ideas across it means that it is not only right now but necessary to engage these ideas openly and win the global battle for hearts and minds.”

    The result of a better connected society increases our ability to exchange knowledge and ideas. It is that connectivity that enables political activists, researchers and citizen journalists to expose a myriad of distorted facts, contortions, lies, propaganda, concealment and deception by government and other in power.

    It is precisely that web structure and mental hook-up, perceived as an artery of truth, that aroused the UK corporate ‘Establishment’ to groupthink the consequences and the importance of an emerging shift of public consciousness.

    That buzz session took place at the Royal Institute of International Affairs in an open discussion in December 2012 presented by Billy 14 pints and in subsequent ‘closed’ sessions held under ‘Chatcham House Rules’ or secrecy.

    Simply by ‘over-egging’ cybercrime statistics (Hansard:Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)) this government justified and then introduced the National Cyber Security Programme:


    to be followed by a cyber awareness school program in 2013-2014-on shrewdly named ‘The Cyber Security Challenge UK.’


    The Chatcham House ‘think-tank’ is an invited members only institution that sprouted from a cabal of Oxford elites and now funded by partners, patrons and corporate members that read like a Who’s Who of the Fortune 500, including Tesco, BP, Vodaphone, BT, Barclays, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, the European Commission, and dozens of other corporations, institutions and foreign governments.

  188. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Sep, 2013 - 12:43 am

    H-o-l-y shit. One low voltage switch away from disaster.


  189. “Not sure that’s what Jonestown proves”

    It doesn’t prove anything, but it shows you can get people to do anything once they accept a form of religion, i.e. a faith based belief system – whatever you may think about the socialist, anti-religous and pro-USSR angle the cult was set up as a religion, Jones was already a seasoned and well connected US political operator when he set up his cult, he knew every political trick in the book and knew that a ‘religous’ set-up would attract less independent minded followers who would be mostly unquestioning.

    Jones was insane and addicted to drugs but when he created the false-flag sniper attacks upon Jonestown he knew what he was doing, he understood the mentality of the crowd. Once he created a non-existant existential threat (by claiming the CIA had the place surrounded and were planning to kill everyone insde in the most horrible fashion) he then offered them a way out by ‘revolutionary suicide’, which he said would be far less painful than the humiliation, torture and death that awaited them at the hands of the CIA.

    To me this appears a microcosm of how societies are run in the West and how they get people killing each other and accepting mass deaths in global war based on the idea that there could be something even worse out there. Jones was running ‘both sides’ in his fantasy world in much the same way that the trans-national banker folks do when funding both sides in a major war.

  190. Astute Dreoilin – important NWO links…

  191. BrianFujisan

    21 Sep, 2013 - 1:07 am

    Fedup , Alcanon, Ben

    i had to pop out awhile. Airport Run.


    just imagine if a “UN Inspector” had been so much as got a hold of by the arm in Syria what would the headlines be?

    Exactly…And thanks for response Re Libya, i’ll never froget how that satanic bitch said that with smile – after the way Gaddafi was so sickeningly murdered.

    This is a video of the crazed Dictator driving through Tripoli exposed from the waste up, many amazing facts in there too.



    yes the voyager’s are nuclear powered, But the way they they solved the Scan Platform Fail was quite something, i go back to the chapter in Carl Sagan’s Pale Blue Dot ( The Triumph of Voyager ) every now n then, amazing stuff,

    Deffo Strange Timing Methinks for Deep Impact Shutdown / fail ?

  192. “ISON is not a threat to the Earth proclaims Russian scientist Yural Goeyntodiekov.”


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