Russia versus Greenpeace

by craig on September 25, 2013 2:08 pm in Uncategorized

Russia is casting around for legal measures it can use against Greenpeace.  To any reasonable person the accusation of piracy is ludicrous.  Russia has come to it because there is no other charge over which it can claim jurisdiction.

Under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which Russia has ratified and is in force, the criminal jurisdiction of a coastal state operates only within its territorial sea of up to twelve miles.  Beyond that it may have an exclusive economic zone of up to two hundred miles, and a continental shelf may extend even beyond that; but within those zones the rights of coastal states are limited to jurisdiction over economic activity and mineral exploitation.

The Russians appear very aware of the legal position.  When the Greenpeace activists were first arrested, I heard on BBC World Service radio here in Accra a Russian government spokesman say the vessel appeared to be towing a seismic buoy.  Greenpeace explained it was a survival pod.  But the point is, if it had been a seismic buoy, that would have been an economic activity which the Russian government is indeed entitled to regulate, so it was s thought out pretext (though I have no doubt a dishonest one).

Obviously the argument that they were engaged in unlawful economic activity may have justified the original arrest but quickly falls.  What else is left?  The seas above the exclusive economic zone are part of the High Seas – a fact often misunderstood.  The only criminal activity on the High Seas over which a state other than the flag state of the vessel can claim jurisdiction is piracy.  So if the Russians want to bring charges, it is piracy or nothing.

Of course any sensible government would opt for nothing, and accept that demonstrations happen.  The Russian government is not sensible in that sense, and would far rather throw away the international kudos gained over Syria, than admit for one second that Putin is not in complete macho control of absolutely everything.

The stupid thing about all this is that Russia has every legal right to be drilling for oil in the Arctic, a great deal of which is rightly within Russia’s exclusive economic zone.  The Russians have the right to drill, and Greenpeace have the right to protest about it.

What this is not, is piracy.  Greenpeace were not intending to steal or damage any rig, vessel or cargo, or to commit violence.  They were just protesting.  The definition of piracy in UNCLOS is quite clear:

Article 101

Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

 Plainly this is not piracy.


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  1. Putin says activists not pirates but “did break the law” –

    If no law applies, then maybe the law of the jungle, or ‘lawless high seas’ does. 

  2. Prof Michel Chossudovsky was speaking about the future militarisation of the Arctic on RT yesterday. He is well informed.

    Heat over Arctic: ‘Oil & gas may fuel militarization of the region’

    25 Sep 2013

    As world powers team up to secure the ecology in the Arctic, the rivalry over its rich oil and gas resources is heating up. Michel Chossudovsky from the Center for Research on Globalisation explains that the battle for the North Pole is high on the global military agenda. READ MORE:

  3. Some discussion of applicability of law in international waters –

    An interesting part –

    (5) Universal jurisdiction. According to Henry Kissinger, “the doctrine of universal jurisdiction asserts that some crimes are so heinous that their perpetrators should not escape justice by invoking doctrines of sovereign immunity or the sacrosanct nature of national frontiers.”

    Those words might come back to haunt ol’ Henry if he lasts long enough.

  4. Recollecting the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior, and subsequent non molestation of the French interests to date, at least Russians are trying to float a dog and pony show of legality, albeit on a flimsy basis.

    Curious as to why Green Peace has never targeted the gulf of mexico spill? Although Green Peace site tries to tie up the spill to the Russians activity in the Arctic.

    Frankly I am suspicious of Green Peace motives, and I am not quiet convinced they are operating on the level. Therefore it cannot be adduced they are not a clandestine “objector” front shop of the relevant SIS, tasked with spiking the economic activities of the rival economies.

  5. Ok, so now Greenpeace is a CIA funded “front” set up and operated to obstruct non-US resource companies that compete with US companies for resource exploitation.


  6. The owner of the TV station that [used to] broadcast/s ‘War on Whales’ has, through banks in the UK, stock in the the very company they chase on TV. Need $$ to protect ya precious hamlet? Dial FUKUSU2 for assistance.

  7. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Sep, 2013 - 3:51 pm

    Russia is growing in some ways, but is this their version of the Tea Party?

    Elton John is not as in your face as Pussy Riot, but he is gay.,0,4672770.story

  8. nevermind, get your lead brolly here, and use it...

    25 Sep, 2013 - 4:17 pm

    Greenpeace is hierarchically ordered and does not offer their members any choice for campaigning, they decide on campaigns, and the members pay their dues and tick which ueber choice they agree with.

    I agree with Passerby that Greenpeace is secretive and dodgy.

    Just as the Russian Government is dodgy for even trying to drill in this pristine Arctic area. No time for both of them.

  9. Uzbek in the UK

    25 Sep, 2013 - 4:25 pm

    Old good Russia. Gangsta paradise.

  10. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Sep, 2013 - 4:35 pm

    Enter Paul Watson; another dodgy refugee from GP. He treats his volunteers like whale shit, but he loves those whales. Reminds me of a so-called liberal affliction; those who love the whole world but can’t get along with individuals.

  11. Seems like a charge of ‘piracy’ at sea is just as convenient as one of ‘terrorism’ on land. A very convenient catch-all of being inconvenient to a government or its interests, which requires next to nothing by way of proof, but for which the punishment can be whatever the security-state in question fancies.

  12. We’re going to see a lot of mediagenic propaganda drama about how Russia/China/Iran breaches human rights. Only 22 days until October 17.

    Then the world will hear what US government criminals have got to say for themselves. The US regime will have to justify their existence not to journalistic asskissers or town halls policed by gestapo goons, but to independent experts who know their rights. No focus-grouped bullshit campaign issues but the minimal standards of the civilized world. As enforced by the ICJ under Article 38 of its charter, the committee’s conclusions and recommendations override the shit-flinging shaved apes of the supreme court. The US government will go to great lengths to drown that out.

  13. What would we do if Greenpeace tried to board one of our gas or oil rigs in the North Sea or wherever. Have I have missed point somewhere :o)

  14. @Peter.
    Obviously, the nice British government would make them tea and cucumber sandwiches, before locking them up for 14 years under anti-terrorism legislation.

  15. Is Green Peace funded by Israel?

    If I was Putin, I’d feed a great white sperm whale, ‘green peace’ shaped squid, then let the monster loose.

    Oh the irony!

  16. Michael Stephenson

    25 Sep, 2013 - 7:22 pm

    It seems silly to me to always trot out the Russia macho explanation for everything.

    If Greenpeace had tried this in the Gulf of Mexico, they’d have been similarly arrested and likely similarly there would be attempts to charge them with something.

    Would machismo be part of the discussion under those circumstances?

  17. I’m not a friend of Vlad nor a defender of Russian policies. I find it odd that Russia is being attacked from all sides lately, ever since it ripped the winds out of the sails of Unca Sam’s war flotilla. My sense for justice wants everyone to be treated equally under a law ensuring equal rights to anyone.

    You did not choose your family

    You did not choose your background

    You did not choose the color of your skin

    You did not choose the country you were born in

    You did not choose to be circumcised

    You did not choose to love a person

    You did not choose your gender

    You did not choose the school you attended

    I stand up for, and defend, a person’s right to be him/herself.

    Needless to say, children will be kept out of harms way.

  18. Islam Bibi, you too will be remembered.

  19. sea fool was foolish finking was frank fool

    25 Sep, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    Its nice to mull over what are the laws of the sea and how they came about. At first countries tried to colonialize or sea grab the oceans, but soon recognized that this was problematic and so came up with the concept that the high sea was that part of the sea further than a country could fire its canons, hence the territorial waters were those within range and the high sea out of range, as in if we can’t blast them out of the waters from the mainland they are in international waters.

    The law of the sea and the law of space and the law of cyber space are related concepts. If we can use military might to control it then its ours.

    Another though comes to mind: the piracy party and its attempts to free up cyber space.

  20. Pieces of Green – The TEPCO/Fukushima version. Trust US, we don’t glow after dark…

  21. @Peter25 – no need to wonder, greenpeace activists occupied the Brent Spar platform in the North Sea back in 1995, along with accompanying demos of shell petrol stations. They won, Shell lost, nobody was arrested for piracy.

  22. I’ve apparently just crossed into the universe where Jeremy Paxman has a beard. A twitter search suggests others have been crossing the barrier on their on time-lines.

    We clearly are now in the Spock’s Beard Universe

    Beam Me Up.

  23. that’s OK: some activists in Belgium have just been found guilty of “organised crime” for pulling up some (illegal) potatoes:

    Today the Court of Dendermonde, Belgium, convicted 11 activists of organised crime in relation to their participation in a day of action against a GM potato field which took place in Wetteren on May 29th, 2011.
    The activists were convicted of criminal gang forming, criminal damage and resisting arrest, and were given suspended prison sentences of between 3 and 6 ,months, plus fines, damages and court costs totalling more than 25 thousand euros.
    There was some relief among the activists on hearing the verdict, but also concern that this verdict creates an extremely dangerous precedent for everyone who values the right of citizens to freedom of speech. This is the first time that environmental activists have been convicted of organised crime charges in Belgium. The activists plan to appeal against todays’ verdict.
    ”This conviction for organised crime is completely out of proportion with the ‘crime’ of uprooting a few potatoes from a controversial GM crop which was grown for mainly promotional reasons.” said Barbara Van Dyck, one of the defendants. ‘ The aim of the action was to trigger public debate about the introduction of GMOs into agriculture. The field trial itself was later found by a separate court to be unlawful because they did not have a valid permit for the crop.’

  24. Btw see problems with Greenpeace as with any large hierarchical organisation but v effective people often work for/with them, national public (and funded) support important?

  25. I note Caroline Lucas just got arrested, and is being charged, for being at an anti-fracking demo. Our own country isn’t quite so liberal either. Indeed Lucas is an MP, which makes it worse. Personally I was never awfy convinced about Lucas as an MP, or a leader of a party, but I admire her spirit. And she shouldn’t be facing studpid charges.

    Worth pointing out. I too am a little sceptical about Greenpeace, sorry. I was just erading Charlie Wilson’s war, and was left with the distinct impression that the security services basically can do anything they like. Infiltrate any group they please, for whatever reason they imagine. And they do so, and they get away with it. Infiltrate Greenpeace to draw attention to the many problems in Russia? Perfectly plausible scenario, I think.

    Of course, one mustn’t go the opposite extreme and think that the CIA\Mossad\Whoever is some sort of hegemon force with eyes and ears everywhere, I don’t suppose it’s like that either, even taking into account the recent NSA revelations. Healthy scepticism all round is the cure to such Kafka-esque mind-wanderings. And there are of course many brave, non-spook, people working for Greenpeace, and they deserve better than a stupid trumped-up piracy chargem just as Lucas deserves better than a stupid trumped-up charge …

  26. Greenpeace – I’ve always been a bit sceptical myself about who really runs the show when push comes to shove.

  27. no need to wonder, greenpeace activists occupied the Brent Spar platform in the North Sea back in 1995, along with accompanying demos of shell petrol stations. They won, Shell lost, nobody was arrested for piracy.

    The story of a defunct platform, in those heady days in which al Qiday had no franchises, and the war on terror was but a twinkle in the sick minds of its dreamers.

    And Shell lost and the Norwegian company won; dismantling the decommissioned, the defunct and inoperative platform. Much later (after the dough had been banked) it transpired that the toxicity levels of the substances on board the platform claimed, and the amounts there of on the said platform, were in fact all but “bullshit”.

    Further, reinforcing the general consensus on this thread; green peace is as dodgy as a fucking nine bob note.

  28. Greenpeace owned lock,stock and barrel by the spooks long long long time.


  29. C’mon, Jives – say it ain’t so. I still give a monthly subscription to Greenpeace.

  30. Glenn,

    That’s your choice i guess.

    Follow the money…

  31. Sadly , Russia are probably in the right again and Jives is correct.Greenpeace was long ago owned lock,stock and barrel by the spooks and the crazed Marxist Saul Alinsky fanatics. The flawed global warming (now hush hushely changed to ‘climate change’)fad being one of their trojan horses for a globalist corporate system. Anyone who cares to look in to it will see that most of the well meaning environmentalists have long gone. Unfortunately, like Oxfam, the Red Cross (finely tuned lazer guided humanitarian intervention)WWF and Avaaz to name but a few, they just can’t be taken seriously anymore.

    Putin win again

  32. @ Jemand,

    Q: Those words might come back to haunt ol’ Henry if he lasts long enough.

    R: My sentiments exactly.

    @ Glenn/Others,

    Although I’m a tree-hugging, loincloth-wearing, falafel-munching, yoghurt-flogging, sandal-weaving hippie, I’ve never been attracted to Greenpeace. I’m always suspicious when confronted with large, organized whatever. I can’t present any of you solid evidence or facts providing insight into Greenpeace’s daily business and I have to admit that [in the early years] they really managed to drag injustice onto the table and TV screens, but as of late, I dunno.

    I’ve seen too many times how large corporations bought out/bribed the opposition [not the masses, their leaders], so I’ve become very skeptical. Doesn’t mean Greenpeace is doing anything wrong, but it does make me sound like a bitter kind of dude [which I’m not, I hope].

  33. Piracy at Sea has different meanings for different people. For example, Somalians who were fighting to save their country from foreign exploitation – were hunted down by the western powers as “Sea Pirates”.

  34. This might help in shedding more light on Human Rights Watch as was discussed in another thread on a different page.

    @ Rehmat,

    Q: For example, Somalians who were fighting to save their country from foreign exploitation…

    R: I’m not familiar with the situation on that side of the continent, but if it’s a reflection of what happened/happens on the other side, it would go like this:

    Huge factory ships [Europe/Asia] scoop up most of the fish, leaving local communities with barely anything to eat and survive in what can be at best be described as already extremely harsh living conditions. It’s my understanding that the Somalian piracy has its roots in similar circumstances, where the livelihood of the locals had been destroyed by commercial fishing fleets the world over.

  35. Greenpeace Russian oil rig protesters ‘no pirates’ but broke international law, says Putin

    Addressing an Arctic Forum in northern Russia, the president [Putin] said:

    “It is perfectly obvious that they are no pirates. But they made a deliberate attempt to seize the oil platform. Our law-enforcement agents, our border guards didn’t know who was trying to seize the platform under the guise of Greenpeace.

    So Russia’s not saying that they’re pirates. But climbing aboard an oil rig seems like a fairly stupid thing to do if you don’t want to face arrest, even if the rig is in international waters. I think If I were living in Scotland I’d want the government to arrest unauthorized people climbing aboard a North Sea Oil rig, since they would obviously represent a huge security risk.

  36. @ CanSpeccy,

    Q: … since they would obviously represent a huge security risk.

    R: Very true. I would also like to add the ‘safety’ factor. I had two friends [professional divers on oil rigs] and they always talked about how safety/security was a constant factor that leaned heavily on anyone’s mind. Having unprofessional ‘outsiders’ climb aboard, would, no doubt, raise both issues a few notches.

    What strikes me as odd, is that Greenpeace uses boast propelled by engines running on the same stuff that the Russians are trying to extract via those rigs [in crude form then, of course].

  37. 481,884 emails sent so far

    Free our activists

    Right now, the crew of our ship the Arctic Sunrise are being held by armed Russian Coast Guards after they illegally boarded the ship in international waters.

    The Arctic Sunrise had been part of a peaceful protest against energy giant Gazprom which is poised to drill for the first oil to come out of the icy waters of the Arctic.

    Using a helicopter and ropes, armed Coast Guard officials boarded the ship and started rounding up the activists, assembling them on the helideck. The Arctic Sunrise was circling Gazprom’s Prirazlomnaya platform inside international waters and outside the jurisdiction of Russian authorities, making the boarding of the ship unlawful.

    Please send an urgent email to the Russian Ambassador in London and demand the Russian Coast Guard release the peaceful protesters immediately

  38. nevermind Fukushima, what about arresting a Green MP arrested for obstructing police ?

    26 Sep, 2013 - 9:10 am

    Thanks for bringing this political arrest of an outspoken and principled MP to our attention again, Brendan. We now see the dirty face of electioneering at work, anything to discredit UKIP and the Green Party, absolutely anything.

    They really do not know what they are doing, by this rate of Orwellian measures against legitimate protests we will soon see peaceful protest be pushed underground.

    Who are they going to arrest next? George Monbiot? for just standing there in support next to her?
    Lord Brown has a lot to answer for, because he usurped the energy ministry for his gains, a rights scurrilous scoundrel who should have been hauled over the barrel when he was in power.

    His Lordshit Brown who’s interests lie behind this arrest is rapidly following TB into Hades.

    I fear as this massive public relations mistake will reverberate around the country and bring more membership to the Green party and raise their profile with voters who do care about the impact fracking will have, that the Governments own goal will be followed by more of such erratic actions, using the police for their political aims.

    How many more good people will be harassed before we wake up in this country and send them packing? or are you all waiting for an Independent Godot/Scotland to scurry off to?

  39. “We’re going to see a lot of mediagenic propaganda drama about how Russia/China/Iran breaches human rights.”

    Of course the best drama is often based on the truth.

  40. Yes Nevermind… The gangsters in charge here, and elsewhere, are in danger of overdoing it. The people will twig it eventually.

    btw It is Browne with an ‘e’. Perjurer extraordinaire and bon vivant.

    His fellow peer has peeped out from his coffin to slag off Miliband.

    Browne’s current interests
    Partner & managing Director Riverstone LLC 2007-
    Chairman Queen Elizabeth Prize Foundation 2011-
    Chairman Blavatnik School of Government Advisory Board 2011-
    Chairman Tate Galleries 2009-

    Mandelson’s current interests

    Director, Willbury Limited (trading entity for Member’s public speaking/writing; remuneration for all work listed in category 2 (except the profit share from Global Counsel LLP) is paid to Willbury Limited)
    Non-executive Director, Sistema (diversified holding company)

    2: Remunerated employment, office, profession etc.
    Chairman and Partner, Global Counsel LLP (strategic advice consultancy)
    Chairman, Lazard International (international financial advisory firm)

  41. nevermind Greenpeace, will George Monbiot be tasered for standing next to her?

    26 Sep, 2013 - 9:55 am

    Two days ago we saw some mindless violence being meted out to a protester, in front of TV camera’s, and at a time when children were watching it.

    Now if its in the public interest to see Dr. Caroline Lucas MP prosecuted for merely refusing to move on, shirley its in the public interest to see Ian Dale’s bad examples of mindless violence prosecuted.

  42. nevermind prosecuting Dr. Caroline Lucas, what about a violent Ian Dale?

    26 Sep, 2013 - 9:59 am

    Riverstone LLC is his new energy vehicle, Mary, especially created for his fracking empire, on the back of the ministries he has usurped. I bet it has a Swiss or Lichtenstein subsidiary were he pays some taxes.

  43. Jives I hope you’re wrong about the spooks owning Greenpeace. It has long been the target of imperialist governments. Was it not the French secret services that blew up the Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand?

    As to any country having the rights to exploit mineral wealth, it might be true under international law, but whether it is morally right is an important issue since the ecosystem of the planet is already in tatters due to mineral exploitation by man.

    I bet Russia kicks itself for selling Alaska so cheaply to the United States.

  44. Clearly it is not piracy, but the GP protesters did
    try and storm the rig, so not unsurprising that the
    Russians would take firm action.

    I find it difficult to imagine that any western nation
    would tolerate similar action – it would most likely be
    classed as an act of terrorism.

    That doesn’t make the Russians right, but the West has
    long since surrendered the moral high ground on matters
    of international law (if indeed they ever occupied it).

  45. We don’t see quite enough of greenpeace on the clyde, been a few years now. they could perhaps take advantage of the support to be rid of the wmd’s as the independence debate heats up.

    Talking of the arctic, here’s a vid of the largest calving ever recorded on film, Amazing .

  46. Off topic.

    The cowardly US military can now fly converted fighter-jets as drones.

  47. (if indeed they ever occupied it)

    Good Point D.E. When one considers how The ‘ west ‘ is responsible for the largest Genocide in history – Native American’s, And how we have Acted Before and Since, allway looking for more Blood, with Disgusting Shits like Bliar always sniffing around, never enough for that little *%$*

    I have no doubt whatsoever that had that been American security forces, most, if not all of the Greenpeace people would be dead

  48. “The cowardly US military can now fly converted fighter-jets as drones.”

    Fearless Russians not far behind them though.

  49. Brian Fujisan, and DomesticExtremist, agreed. The difference between the actualities and the narrative, is an ever widening gap, that cannot be ignored, glossed over or hidden.

    Venezuelan president has skipped going to UN, because US would not issue visas for some of his staff. Further, President Maduro has issued a statement;

    Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said Wednesday he had scrapped his plan to take part in the UN General Assembly in New York to “protect my life” after purported threats on it.

    In addition Bolivian President Evo Morales (the same president who was detained, and his ride searched for Snowden) has delivered his speech in the UN;

    “No guaranteed visas, no guaranteed overflights. We feel threatened, bullied and blackmailed over visas,” he said, adding that the United States “has never ratified treaties related to human rights.”
    “We must seriously think about changing the headquarters of the United Nations,”

    Surprisingly never talked about is the fact that the “advocate general” of the Human Rights (albeit self appointed) has never ratified the treaties on the Human Rights, as it proceeds to bludgeon the “evil doers” and “violators of HR”. High-sounding moral homilies are just about what the US et al are too busy delivering, never mind the facts and actualities.

  50. Pedants’ corner.

    “The only criminal activity on the High Seas over which a state other than the flag state of the vessel can claim jurisdiction is piracy.”

    No – there are others specified in UNCLOS (causing a collision [article 97] and unauthorised broadcasting [109]); and there further types of criminal activity over which some states claim universal jurisdiction, including in respect of slave trafficking, torture, crimes against humanity, some sex crimes, etc. etc.

  51. Although I should add that the jurisdiction of the English courts over UK subjects who commit murder abroad (s9 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861 and s3 of the British Nationality Act 1948) applies only to murder committed on land.

  52. Kempe, quite revealing. I wonder if they used their air-defence capabilities in shooting down the two Israeli missiles that were being used to involve the US in the Syrian crisis? If so they must be quite advanced. The Israelis at first thought the Yanks had downed them and called it a ‘joint-effort’.

  53. Human Right Watch and the Jewish Lobby

    @Daniel Rich

    On June 6, 2013, the top United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) official, professor Richard Falk called on 47-nation body to “investigate” and if found guilty, expel the Geneva-based Israel lobby group, the UN Watch.

    In his latest report, Richard Falk said the UN Watch’s “smear campaign” is carried out in “numerous settings, including at the Human Rights Council, as well as university campuses where Falk gives lectures.” He called upon UNHRC member nations to set-up a mechanism to protect its Special Rapporteurs from the Zionist smear campaign against freedom of thoughts.

    It seems, finally, the good-old Jewish professor has called “enough is enough”, after being a victim of several vicious campaigns by his Jewish groups and their poodles in the US and some EU governments for his removal as a top Watchdog at UNHRC.

  54. Kempe, I think your use of ‘fearless’ for the Russians, and my use of ‘cowardly’ for the US were apt adjectives. Russia has not waged war on any other state to steal its mineral resources this century and, to my knowledge not used UAVs to kill indiscriminately unarmed people remotely. Wish we could say the same about the cowardly Yanks. I’m glad we’ve found some common ground.

  55. They are prolly going to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea if the ship and crew is not released:

  56. O/T but the most disgusting unpleasantness for the Palestinians who live in Abu Dis.

    By e-mail 26 September 2013

    Last night a new weapon by the Israeli army against the people in Abu Dis: they drove round the main streets and sprayed sewage water everywhere – Descriptions are of the really disgusting smell absolutely everywhere. It entered the houses and the kids’ rooms – and it didn’t clear like teargas apparently does. It hung around in the fabric inside houses and made everyone fear for their health: rumours of possible viruses are going around.

    The Israeli army have been using a lot of tear gas recently in Abu Dis. The children in the Abu Dis schools have lost many of the first school days in Abu Dis, as the army have been shooting tear gas into school playgrounds as well as around the nearby university.

    We are writing to our MP, asking him to ask the Foreign Office to enquire about this, in order to protect the people (and in particular the children) in the face of such attacks. You may want to do the same.

    Does anyone have contact with news media that might cover this particularly the sewage spraying? We know it is not the first time in Palestine, have heard of it in Nabi Saleh and Bil’in when there have been demonstrations, and then last Friday in Aizariah next to Abu Dis. But this is the first time in our ‘twin’ town, right in the middle of all the families, and it must not be allowed to become routine (anywhere)!

    Camden Abu Dis Friendship Association
    Linking together for human rights
    PO Box 34265
    London NW5 2WD
    Charity number 1112717 Located in ‘Area B’ of the ‘West Bank’. 10,000+ residents.

  57. Nevermind. Iain Dale, McPoison’s publisher, has been given a police caution. Smarmy so and so – the very soul of good humour and levity when he reviews the papers on Sky News. He is usually part of a double act with Jaqui ‘Jackboots’ Smith, ex Home Sec/MP.

  58. 26 September 2013 Last updated at 13:58

    Remand hearing for Greenpeace team held in Russia
    Denis Sinyakov in court in Murmansk, Russia

    A Russian court has begun hearings to decide whether 30 Greenpeace activists should stay in custody over their actions during an oil protest.

    Two Russians among them were remanded in custody for two months by the court in Murmansk, a port city north of the Arctic Circle.

    Rulings are expected shortly for the other activists, who come from 18 different countries.

    Greenpeace says the activists were staging a legal, peaceful protest.

    Coastguards arrested them on suspicion of piracy after two scaled an offshore drilling platform.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin has said the activists are obviously “not pirates” but did not criticise their continued detention.

    The charge of piracy carries a prison term of up to 15 years in Russia.


  59. Multiple sources of public knowledge, including testimony from Russian FM Sergey Lavrov, Mother Agnes Mariam el-Salib and Jean Pascal Zanders provide actual evidence that if a neurotoxic agent has been used in Damascus to kill innocent citizens and children that the actual perpetrators can only be the death squads of al-Qaeda and associated criminal gangs in Syria that kill the innocent population to prevent their final defeat by the regular Syrian army.

    Yet again the world was 24hrs close to a Gulf of Tonkin cum Shock & Awe ‘skewed evidence’ or government lies and contrived truth drowning media frenzy induced US/UK air-strike on Syria, murdering, orphaning and maiming thousands of Syrian civilians including babies, toddlers and teens.

    Previously a similar phony war against Iraq amounted to genocide and provoked a terrorist attack in London that murdered 52 and injured 700, some permanently maimed.

    I believe we cannot move from our present dimension and attain a higher level of consciousness without intention.

    Intention is the purpose of a private prosecution under the historical section 6(1) Prosecution of Offences Act, 1985 against PM and First Lord of the Treasury, David William Donald Cameron MP with evidence that he[Cameron]advanced Britain into drafting a resolution accusing the Syrian government of using chemical weapons and authorising ‘all necessary measures’ under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter or in interpretation, incitement to genocide based on lies.

    Private prosecutions are under attack. The Government propose that the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions should be required before any such arrest warrant can be issued.

    It is therefore crucial that the historic common law right of an individual to prosecute is preserved.

  60. “Russia has not waged war on any other state to steal its mineral resources this century”

    Of course there is no oil in Chechenya, but I suppose that was an internal boundary dispute. And of course lets not mention Russia turning off the gas to the Ukraine in the middle of winter in order to encourage more constructive political thinking.

    I think you will find that Putin and his mob have been more interested in stealing Russia’s own mineral resources before turning its attention to the higher hanging fruit in other countries.

  61. Of course the best drama is often based on the truth, as any manipulative two-year old learns, BUT HE did this, HE did THAT, mid-tantrum. In some cultural milieus, little Worthington or little Yuval never does learn that that little trick doesn’t get you off the hook and only increases the obloquy. But if Mommy doesn’t teach you, it takes a lot of grade-school swirlies to break the habit.

    Uh oh, here comes Vlad and Evo and the wrestling team!

  62. John, I am quite confident that all 11 countries that currently employ drones have the same motivations and if preserving the life of a highly trained young person is part of that, why not? Those behind the anti-drone hysteria had to invent something that made drone strikes sound worse than those by manned aircraft and accusations of cowardice (no doubt from people who have never heard a shot fired in anger) have so far been the best they can do. Similar accusations were levelled against WW1 pilots who wanted parachutes.

    As for the Russians shooting down that Israeli missile firstly can you provide some proof and secondly explain what Israel hoped to achieve by firing one relatively small missile at Syria? Oh and why the Syrians never protested about it too.

  63. “Greenpeace explained it was a survival pod.”

    Must be true then, even though “survival pods” are usually called “lifeboats” and are best left on the ship so, you know, you can get into them in an emergency without getting wet – which would be very serious in Arctic condtions.

    It wouldn’t be the first time nefarious commercial activites have been conducted under the guise of ‘charity’, ‘aid’ and ‘peace activism’. In fact the ‘survival pod’ would also make a great mobile manned sigint station, and that picture of the Polar Bear – what fantastic cover. In fact it could be handy for all sorts of other things, but a “survival pod” would be very low down on my list.

    This may explain why Greenpeace is more obsessed with Russian exploration than the greatest ever man made environmental disaster that is Fukishima, with one core burying itself deep into the Earths crust and irradiating the entire Pacific Ocean why aren’t they drawing more attention to this instead of diverting media focus away?

    No geopolitical bias in Greenpeace’s activities or the media reporting? Of course not, dear chumps – everything is exactly as they tell you it is.

  64. “Curious as to why Green Peace has never targeted the gulf of mexico spill? Although Green Peace site tries to tie up the spill to the Russians activity in the Arctic.”

    Not curious if one follows geopolitical and commercial motives rather than environmental – why arent Greenpeace warning the world about Fukishima? It’s the worlds worst man-made environmental disaster by a long long way.

  65. technicolour

    26 Sep, 2013 - 4:00 pm

  66. “John, I am quite confident that all 11 countries that currently employ drones have the same motivations and if preserving the life of a highly trained young person is part of that, why not?”

    Why should preserving one life be more important than taking hundreds of lives in unprovoked attacks? Is one life more important than another? Against a perceived enemy that cannot defend his or her self. That is cowardice in my book. There is a factory called UAV Engines at Shenstone, just outside Lichfield, where the majority of directors are Israeli. It is pretty clear where the aggression is coming from, who is funding it, and who is profiting from it.

    At school we were taught that when a big boy hits a little boy that is bullying. The teachers try to stamp it out. For the big boy to hit the little boy means that the little boy is seen as weaker. When the big boy steals the little boy’s sweets, pea-shooter or whatever it is called stealing. When the big boy does not pick on a boy his own size he does not do so for fear the big boy might hit him back. He is a bully towards little boys, but because he is a coward, avoids confrontation with the big boys. As you mention Russia has its own resources, but it also has a means of protecting them, so the big boy goes after little boys. In recent history the oversized, bullying, thieving, cowardly country has shown itself to be the United States of America. I hope by the little parable you can understand what I am trying to say.

  67. “As you mention Russia has its own resources, but it also has a means of protecting them”

    From its own kleptocracy (or bullies as you call them)??????????????

  68. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Sep, 2013 - 4:47 pm

    OK. WTF is Hubble? This was taken yesterday by a backyard setup. There are scads of links debunking the companions to ISON, but no one wondering why we can’t get close-ups with bigger mirrors owned by gubmint.

  69. “…explain what Israel hoped to achieve by firing one relatively small missile at Syria?”

    I don’t think the suggestion is that it was fired at Syria. That would indeed be pointless. The suggestion is it was fired at a US vessel, with the intention of provoking a retaliatory attack – against Syria. You know, a USS Liberty-type doodah.

  70. John – UAV Engines Ltd-do you have the board of directors names?

    I noticed this statement by Amnesty:

  71. The four at the top of the list are the current directors John.

    I see the company was called Alvis….. originally. That is a good old name from our glory days when we manufactured cars.

    Note the value of assets etc.

  72. Sorry meant Mark.

  73. “That is a good old name from our glory days when we manufactured cars.”

    We still do and nearing record numbers

  74. Thanks Mary – Sick in the stomach that the Norton company was bought out to further the myopic drone killing machine.

    Mr. David Garside must also be filled with horror. He was technical and commercial leader at Norton Motors during their development of the Norton rotary motorcycle engine in the early 90’s.

    David went along with in the development and production of a UAV rotary engine that was meant to be used exclusively in UAV surveillance not murder.

    Norton Motors previously contracted with Freedom Motors to undertake a rotary engine endurance test.

    Mr. Garside holds 11 UK patents and was awarded the MBE by the Queen for his services to the UK Industry. In 1992 he lead a Management Buyout of Norton Motors by an Israeli consortium.

    Mr. Garside retired from UAV Engines Ltd in 2001 but is still a consultant.

  75. Mark I’ve sent you a list which may be out of date. I see Mary has sent you one too. Here also is my article from News Junkie Post.

  76. Mark, fat lot of effect Amnesty has had in four years. When governments choose to bypass universal condemnation they seem quite capable of succeeding which demonstrates what a disgusting world we live in.

  77. An excellent essay John. Thanks for the historical information. Also well done for your protest there.

  78. BrianFujisan

    26 Sep, 2013 - 7:22 pm

    Mark @ 3;17

    Well said, Brave Mother Agnes Mariam el-Salib,

    WhereTF is the rest of church voice’s in all of this, I mean, i’m fkn half deaf i can hear them deafening style( The cowardly Silence ) Talk about Moral high ground. Shits


    Yet more strange goings on,

    Hubble has a crappy 2 month old video of ison, its just risible.
    we should be getting good Hubble images by now for sure, Odd to say the least

  79. nevermind prosecuting Dr. Caroline Lucas, what about a violent Ian Dale?

    26 Sep, 2013 - 7:40 pm

    Thanks for your explanation, pedant, what does that make the Mavi Marmara incident? if you don’t mind me asking.

    @Mary. Ian dale’s violence transmitted for all to see justifies a caution, it is not in the public interest to be prosecuted despite the multiple evidence and footage to the contrary.

    Dr. Caroline Lucas refused to move of her own free will and got arrested for not moving on when told to do so, so I believe, but she did not attack anyone and did not obstruct once the police led her away.

    The state of justice today, well can it be called justice at all?

  80. Thanks for your kind words Mary.

  81. For heaven’s sake …
    According to this + earlier threads,

    Red Cross
    Human Rights Watch and
    Amnesty International

    are all dodgy.

    Who am I supposed to send my pennies to, and/or campaign for?

    I assume the DEC are still legit. 😉


    Saudi Arabia hires Israel occupation profiteer G4S to police Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca

  82. “That is a good old name from our glory days when we manufactured cars.”

    “We still do and nearing record numbers”

    Assembling is not the same as manufacturing. Putting together a flatpack from Ikea does not make you a furniture-maker.

  83. Brian. I did notice. Dale stood as a Con in Norfolk North in 2005. He came second to Lamb. Then he tried to get accepted in 2007 as the Con candidate in Maidstone for Widdy’s seat but was not chosen. Previously he tried to get selected in Bracknell but was turned down. Third time unlucky. He has given up politics.


    ‘Where the law ends, tyranny begins.’ John Locke 1632 – 1704

    I think we are there already.

  84. Dreolin, it is not possible to donate to all charities and some of them are undoubtedly not fit for purpose, keeping an administrative elite in luxury. The one I have no scruples in donating to is Reprieve the charity Clive Stafford Smith set up to defend those imprisoned on very dubious grounds. It has got many prisoners released from Guantanamo Bay, and is working on behalf of Shaker Aamer the last remaining British detainee, as well as others.

  85. “Of course there is no oil in Chechenya, but I suppose that was an internal boundary dispute. And of course lets not mention Russia turning off the gas to the Ukraine in the middle of winter in order to encourage more constructive political thinking.”

    Just a conspiracy theory.

    Russia cut off the gas supply to the Ukraine because the Ukraine refused to pay for it.

  86. I wouldn’t try to donate to all of them, John. But I got a heck of a kick in the teeth when Amnesty employed Suzanne Nozzel, and there have been all sorts of suggestions made here about what Amnesty is and is not. I had been a member since I was 21.

    Apparently I can’t put my faith in Greenpeace either. It gets depressing.

    I follow Clive Stafford Smith on Twitter, and I’m aware of Reprieve. But I’m wondering if it’s reasonable to throw mud at Oxfam, Red Cross, WWF, Avaaz, etc. Surely they can’t all be fronts for spooks – or creaming off money to line their own pockets.

  87. Dreolin I am starting to think the bigger the charity the more open to infiltration and siphoning off of donations it becomes. Tony Blair’s charities are big. Tim Spicer’s private army charity makes donations to Help for Heroes to encourage more donations to these mercenaries.

  88. @ Emmpey,

    Q: …why arent Greenpeace warning the world about Fukishima?

    R: What is that word again? Chaqua… Chopah… Oprah… Checkmate?

    @ MJ,

    Q: Assembling is not the same as manufacturing. Putting together a flatpack from Ikea does not make you a furniture-maker.

    R: That assertion won you 1+ fan. Gosh, do I love sharp minds this early in the morning or what?

    @ Dreoilin,

    Sometimes it takes a molehill to understand a mountain. The NYT, WaPo, LAT and BBC are fadng shadows of outlets I used to trust without even thinking twice… Then I did…

  89. Dreoilin: you should certainly think twice about WWF. A German TV documentary from 2011 uncovered a lot of stuff, summary here:

    Daniel Rich: cheers!

  90. Question to fellow forum members:

    I am of the opinion that ‘public interest’ trumps privacy/secrecy. We [ordinary citizens, aka ‘the grey masses’] have a right to be properly informed and deduce our own conclusions based upon unbiased sources and information [I’m really going off the rails now, ain’t I?].

    Again [and very personal], I’m stumped [time and time again] to see/hear the reasons as to why I shouldn’t get a particular piece of information.

    Sandy Hooks has been mentioned on this site a few times and it looks like [to me] there’s a serious rift between various sides.

    What’s the forum’s opinion on this piece of news Newtown Police Ordered To Make Public 911 Tapes From Sandy Hook. They refuse.

    As per usual, I don’t take any side/s, I’m just curious.


  91. There is a line of thinking, Dreoilin, that sez that humanitarian charities are essentially the West’s vanguard in key trouble-spots. Whether this is to say that the entire outfit is suspect, or there are some corporate/state agents “smuggled” in with the good guys, I’m not sure.
    I daresay at the very least these organisations can provide some useful intelligence to those who would misuse it.

  92. It’s an excellent device, the White Widow, I gotta say that. It reminds us, just when it was needed, of who the true enemy is. It underscores the legitimacy of the War on Terror by validating an earlier AQ-style attack (7/7) just when Ghouta had threatened to unravel the whole narrative. Now, exposing the real nature of “our” relationship (what is the base but the original CIA database of operatives!) with AQ elements has been safely submerged again. Very clever.

  93. Thanks MJ, and everyone.

    Shocking stuff about the WWF.

  94. Addressing the UN General Assembly, Obama stressed that President Assad staying as head of the Syrian state is not an option, saying it would create violent space for extremists to operate.

    Anti-war activist Brian Becker believes Washington is just looking for a pretext to push through a military solution to the conflict.

    Whilst this is a Huge Fkn understatement… Brian Becker on good form here –

  95. Anyone who didn’t watch Channel 4 News this evening might not have heard this

    “Exclusive: Channel 4 News learns the alleged leader of the Nairobi shopping mall attack was born a Christian in Kenya and is a former member of the country’s special forces.”

    “A second man [has] been named by Channel 4 News sources.

    “Known as Khadhab, he is a Somali national who worked in an Islamic bookshop in the Nairobi suburb of Eastleigh. He was arrested and imprisoned in Somalia, and it is alleged he was tortured by the CIA while in custody there.”

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