Freedom Cheaper than Iraq War

by craig on May 26, 2014 5:03 pm in Uncategorized

A particularly mendacious lie by Danny Alexander puts the institutional start-up costs of Scottish Independence at £1.5 billion.  That is a cool half billion pounds cheaper than Scotland’s share of the costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars, even on the Westminster government’s blatant under-estimate of the war costs.

So Scotland can afford criminal invasions killing hundreds of thousands to ‘bring freedom’, but cannot afford the smaller cost of its own freedom!!!

The £1.5 billion estimate is mendacious in two ways.  Firstly, it is a simple recycling of a Canadian lie at the time of the Quebec independence referendum, apportioning with no argument 1% of GDP to startup costs.

Secondly, as nearly all the money will be spent in Scotland it is not a loss at all, but actually an increase to GDP, as any but the most nutty neo-con would be forced to acknowledge.  And it would be the precursor of government money spent annually in Scotland rather than England for ever thereafter.

Thankfully Alexander won’t have a job much longer – and if he thinks a penny of Scottish public spending is going in future to support his huge arse and deceitful mouth, he is very wrong.

 

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764 Comments

  1. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 5:30 pm

    Mr Goss

    “German Nazis thought they were immune. They knew what crimes had been committed hence the cyanide capsules.”
    _________________

    Sloppy thinking, once again.

    If they really thought they were immune why did they feel the need to carry suicide pills?

    Think!!

  2. My post at 4.13pm should have had this link at the end.

    For info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing

  3. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 5:39 pm

    Mary is again urging us to sigh a petition

    “There are 146392 signatures and counting on this 38 Degrees petition. Why not add yours?

    The petition to demand a real recall law – so that voters can sack MPs who don’t do their job properly – is growing fast.

    Already over 130,000 38 Degrees members have signed the petition. The bigger the petition – the more pressure David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband will be under to do the right thing. Can you click the button to add your name?”

    ________________________

    This is bollox – and irresponsible bollox at that.

    Where, in the petition, are the details??

    How many voters to force a recall?

    For any reason at all (your local MP might oppose hanging but most of his electoral might not) – or if not, for which reasons exactly?

    And so on.

    (If I have somehow overlooked a fuller text for what is being demanded by this petition, please indicate where I can read it).

  4. Little or no American commentary on the EU elections. This is James Petras.

    The Rise of the European Right: Reaction to the Neoliberal Right
    by James Petras / May 30th, 2014

    The European parliamentary elections witnessed a major breakthrough for the right-wing parties throughout the region. The rise of the Right runs from the Nordic countries, the United Kingdom, the Baltic and Low countries, France, Central and Eastern Europe to the Mediterranean.

    Most, if not all, of these emerging right-wing parties mark a sharp break with the ruling neo-liberal, Christian and Social Democratic parties who have presided over a decade of crisis.

    The ‘new Right’ cannot be understood simply by attaching negative labels (‘fascist’, ‘racist’ and ‘anti-Semitic’). The rise of the Right has to be placed in the context of the decay of political, social and economic institutions, the general and persistent decline of living standards and the disintegration of community bonds and class solidarity. The entire existing political edifice constructed by the neo-liberal parties bears deep responsibility for the systemic crisis and decay of everyday life. Moreover, this is how it is understood by a growing mass of working people who vote for the Right.

    /..

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/05/the-rise-of-the-european-right-reaction-to-the-neoliberal-right/

    Spot on.

  5. Try this e-petition, Habby (and anyone else…):

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64756

  6. I’ve signed Peacewisher. Thanks for posting the link.

  7. Habby

    She’s a neocon.

    And fuck off with recommending her drivel. If you want to contest my points, then do so yourself.

    If you’re capable.

    You haven’t managed it yet.

    =================

    John

    That interview was recorded over a year ago, but I suspect that the realities that Yanukovych faced will have to be faced up by Poroshenko too. He knows Putin well, obviously but recently Putin turned down his desire to meet.

    The Ukraine coup momentum has stalled, and Putin will be letting the dire gravity of their situation unfold for a while yet.

    They’ll soon learn that the West is but a fair weather friend, using them as it uses everyone else.

  8. US now trying to bully France into selling the ships it is building for Russia… to a country in NATO:

    http://rt.com/news/162412-france-warships-sale-russia/

    First practical example of Obama’s new foreign policy in action?

    Back to the real world… the US economy actual shrank (yes, negative growth) in the first quarter of 2014. You would have thought they’d be looking after their own at such times!

  9. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    Herbie

    “…since their foreign policy is fronted by here today gone tomorrow, British educated Bullingdon boy, Radosław Sikorski.”

    _________________________

    Radoslaw Sikorski has been the Polish Foreign Minister since 2007.

    Hardly “here today gone tomorrow”, Herbie.

    Idiot!

  10. I was actually urging people to SIGN a petition, not SIGH one! Duh! again.

    The original which is easily found by anyone with some nous is:

    ‘Dear …

    It’s splashed across The Telegraph today: a group of MPs have come together to say that they need to regain our trust. [1] And they’re right. Many of us think that politics in the UK is broken. MPs can be sent to prison, can fiddle their expenses or break their promises and we can only get rid of them on election day. [2]

    But, we’ve got a chance right now to make things better. It looks like the government is making plans to announce new powers to sack – ‘recall’ – MPs who don’t do their job properly. Good huh? It would be, but it’s a stitch-up. [3]

    Their plans could put the power to sack MPs in their colleagues’ hands – not their constituents. The MPs speaking out today don’t think this is good enough. They’re backing real recall – so if enough people wanted to hold a by-election to sack their MP in between elections, they could.

    Today’s news will put the government under pressure. So let’s add to it. Let’s build a HUGE people-powered petition so they know we’re watching. Can you sign the petition now?
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/recall-2014

    A real recall law is not the answer to all of our democracy’s problems. But it’s a step in the right direction. And above all, it puts the power into our hands rather than MPs’.

    Real recall won’t mean that by-elections happen every day. There would be checks and balances in place so that MPs can get on with their jobs. It’s only the bad MPs who will need to worry.

    We need to send the government a clear signal, which means the petition needs to be big. Every signature will build the pressure they’ll be under.

    Here’s what one Conservative MP, Zac Goldsmith said:

    “As an MP, I’ve seen how public pressure can force the government’s arm – and they’re particularly sensitive about public trust in MPs right now. A massive petition could give David Cameron and Nick Clegg no option but to go back to the drawing board – and produce recall with bite.”

    Please sign the petition now:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/recall-2014

    Thanks for being involved,

    Becky, Blanche, Amy, Ali & the 38 Degrees team

    PS: The petition is to David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband, (who’ve all said in the past that they’re committed to it). If Ed Miliband backs real recall – this could put David Cameron and Nick Clegg in an even trickier position.

    Sign the petition:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/recall-2014

    NOTES:
    [1] The Telegraph:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10850163/Let-voters-sack-underperforming-politicians-MPs-say.html
    [2] House of Commons Library: Recall Elections:
    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/briefings/snpc-05089.pdf
    [3] BBC: Recall plan for MPs ‘is a stitch-up’:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22784664

  11. Baal @ 3.09pm

    It makes a change from milking us, I suppose.

    But what’s he bought a farm for? Wouldn’t he prefer to live somewhere vibrant and diverse?

  12. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 6:24 pm

    Herbie

    She’s { ie, Anne Applebaum } neocon.

    And fuck off with recommending her drivel. If you want to contest my points, then do so yourself.
    _______________________

    I’d have been glad to answer any points you might have made at 15h57. But there were none to answer.

    It was however clear that you needed educating (unfortunately you’re too late for Michael Gove’s reforms) and that’s why I recommended Anne Applebaum.

    Since you’re obviously keen to get stuck into her works, I’d also recommend her “Gulag – a History” once you’ve finished “Iron Curtain – the crushing of eastern Europe 1944-1956”. Enjoy both!

    ************************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  13. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 6:27 pm

    Richard

    “But what’s he bought a farm for?”

    Perhaps he wants to branch out from spouting bullshit to breeding bulls?

  14. “Hardly “here today gone tomorrow”, Herbie.”

    Well habby, rather like the Polish entity itself, he’s existed there and then not existed there, and should it all go wrong again then both he and Poland will not be existing there again for a while.

    They’re well used to it by now, it being their history over the past few hundred years, but never learn the lesson.

    Idiot!

  15. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 6:31 pm

    Mary

    Another long comment from you but the DETAILS of what is being proposed by 38 degrees (and what you are asking people to sign up to) are STILL MISSING !!

    Instead of sneering, please supply.

    Or don’t you have a clue yourself?

    *************************

    La vita è bella, life is good! A petition a day keep the heebie-jeebies away.

  16. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 6:36 pm

    Herbie

    “They’re well used to it by now, it being their history over the past few hundred years, but never learn the lesson.”
    _________________

    You sound quite pleased about that, Herbie….:)

    But don’t worry, the days when Russia could kick Polish ass are long gone. It didn’t dare do anything against Solidarity and it would dare to do even less now that Poland is a valuable member of NATO.

    Get used to it, Herbie.

    **********************

  17. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 6:40 pm

    From the egregious Herbie

    “…since their foreign policy is fronted by here today gone tomorrow, British educated Bullingdon boy, Radosław Sikorski.”

    _________________________

    Radoslaw Sikorski has been the Polish Foreign Minister since 2007, Herbie.

    That makes 7 years so far (with more to come).

    Hardly “here today gone tomorrow”, Herbie.

    Longer than you’ve been commenting on CM and probably longer than you’ve been unwaged.

  18. Get lost.

  19. “The Ukraine coup momentum has stalled, and Putin will be letting the dire gravity of their situation unfold for a while yet.

    They’ll soon learn that the West is but a fair weather friend, using them as it uses everyone else.”

    It’s also a wounded beast bleeding to death from inequitable distribution of wealth. Wounded beasts are dangerous. Isn’t it typical that they are trying to get France to renege on its warship contract with Russia. At the same time it is cooperating with Russia on the space programme. What hypocrisy.

  20. The equivalent here of getting blood out of a stone or sense out of a troll.

    Chilcot Report Edges Closer Amid Icy Exchanges
    The report into Britain’s role in the Iraq war could be published before the 2015 general election, as David Cameron has demanded.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1271525/chilcot-report-edges-closer-amid-icy-exchanges

    The Sky political editor reports.

  21. Peacewisher

    “Try this e-petition, Habby (and anyone else…):

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64756

    Sorry, but I won’t sign any petition instigated by hard leftist Lindsey German.
    To explain, around about the time of the Iraq War many of us were utterly opposed to it but found that the main opposition, in the form of rallies, protests, sit-ins, occupations, lie-ins and the rest of it, was organized by the kind of socialist worker, pally solidarity type wankers you thought you’d got away from when you left university. No normal person wants to be associated with them or have their opposition to something so manifestly wrong as the Iraq War hijacked by anti-capitalist wasters waving trotskyist placards. Ditto the e-petition you have recommended us today. :-(

  22. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    30 May, 2014 - 6:54 pm

    Mary

    What exactly does the 38 Degrees petition propose?

    Surely you aren’t inviting us to sign up to a petition whose details are non-existent?

    Sounds a little like that episode from the Southy Sea Bubble when investors were urged to invest now in a Company “the activities of which are yet to be revealed”

  23. “and it (Russia) would dare to do even less now that Poland is a valuable member of NATO”

    I’ve already pointed out that it’s not quite as valued as you imagine. And they know it. That’s why they’re crapping themselves.

    The West is using these new NATO countries, to its own purposes and its own purposes alone.

    Poland hasn’t since it joined in 1999 had the defensive support it has requested time and time again.

    Only a week ago it asked for 10,000 troops.

    Response lukewarm. A few fighter jets offered. Oh yeah, and exercises. Canada is sending 50 troops.

    The reality is that you’re as clueless as the Polish leadership. It takes a bit more than idealism and bits of paper.

    Then again it may just be the case that the Poles are pathologically incapable of understanding how you behave when next door to a major regional power. Their history would certainly suggest that that is the case.

    There are so many many ways this can go wrong for them, and no sensible person places themselves in that position.

    Even time itself is not on their side.

  24. PR exercise by the Queen’s Navee. HMS Bulwark is at Greenwich until Tuesday if anybody is interested. Build cost £225m + £32million refit in 2011.

    http://www.wharf.co.uk/2014/05/hms-bulwark-arrives-in-greenwi.html

    Other Navee news. Work on the new carrier proceeds. Launch July 2014 Operational 2020.
    https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/10565

    Any planes to go on the carrier yet Mr Hammond? Run out of money? What a shame.

    Cost? We are told it is £3.5bn
    http://www.queenelizabethcruises.net/hms-queen-elizabeth-aircraft-carrier/

  25. Rat? Sinking ship? Or perhaps he cannot find the words any more.

    White House Press Secretary Jay Carney Quits
    “I’m going to miss him a lot,” says President Barack Obama as he bids farewell to the podium veteran.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1272403/white-house-press-secretary-jay-carney-quits

  26. Habbabkuk, the recall law is an ongoing matter. It was proposed before the last election. However, as I understand it, the government has moved the goal-posts. Their recent proposal is that other MPs rather than the voters would initiate the recall process. If the debate were to proceed in that direction, public power of recall would never even get discussed. Hence the seemingly vague petition; the MPs already know what 38Degrees are complaining about. You can find all this on the 38Degrees site, though you may need to look about a bit.

    Anon, even you could have a good idea, so I won’t go rejecting ideas just because they’re yours in case you do.

  27. @Anon. I wouldn’t want to be seen to be supporting the Socialist Worker Party in any way. I was also on that 1-2 million march, and the reason that movement worked was because SWP was sandwiched between CND, the Muslim Council of Britain and the Trades Unions. I’ve never expressed this opinion before but from what I can remember the protests faded after February 15th at least partly because Trades Unions started running scared of being sequestered. Was that more important than the Iraqi people? From what I remember, Blair gave them their reward in the Warwick agreement (better pensions and working conditions) a year later. Of course Cameron has even taken those away now…

    It is the petition that matters. I would have signed it even if Michael Gove had penned it.

  28. ” Only a week ago it asked for 10,000 troops. ”

    Well actually it was at the begining of April and in response to Putin massing 40,000 Russians on the Ukraine border. Had NATO supplied the requested troops you’d have acused them of being provocative and Putin could’ve used their presence as an excuse to keep his army in place. As it is Putin has seen sense and withdrawn most of the Russians so the need to re-inforce Poland no longer exists.

    ” Then again it may just be the case that the Poles are pathologically incapable of understanding how you behave when next door to a major regional power. ”

    So how would that be? Servile submission to intimidation and bullying? Anything Cuba could learn from their example?

    Poland, and Russia, are well aware of the central tenet of NATO; an attack on one member state is an attack on all.

  29. “Peacewisher

    “Try this e-petition, Habby (and anyone else…):

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64756”

    Sorry, but I won’t sign any petition instigated by hard leftist Lindsey German.”

    It was a jointly signed epetition Lindsey’s name just happened to be at the top.

    Lindsey German, convenor of Stop the War Coalition
    Kate Hudson, general secretary of CND
    Caroline Lucas MP
    Jeremy Corbyn MP
    John Rees, Stop the War Coalition
    Baroness Jenny Tonge
    Ken Loach, film and TV director
    Mark Rylance, actor
    Miriam Margolyes OBE actor
    Michael Rosen, author and broadcaster
    Salma Yaqoob, former leader of the Respect Party
    Andrew Murray, chief of staff for Unite union

    It might help if you read the letter too. It is not expected that somebody who supports UKIP would be opposed to NATO exercises in Ukraine.


    No to Nato military exercises in Ukraine

    Responsible department: Ministry of Defence

    We note with great concern that UK and US troops are scheduled to participate in joint military exercises in Ukraine in July as part of NATO’s Rapid Trident manoeuvres. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Its participation in military exercises by a nuclear-armed alliance with a first-strike policy can only further destabilise the country.

    We call on the British government to urge the US and other NATO governments to cancel the Rapid Trident exercise, and to give a plain and public undertaking that Britain will not participate.”

  30. You’ve sealed it now, John.

  31. The BBC thought it rightly important to tell us about the 12 soldiers who died when their helicopter was shot down in Ukraine. It called them “people”, which of course they are.

    Would the 7 children injured today by Ukrainian army shelling of civilian areas of Slavyansk be classed as “pro-separatist rebels”? Perhaps – if the BBC were to mention the attack at all, which of course they won’t.

    http://rt.com/news/162604-chidren-injured-east-ukraine/

  32. I thought my posting of the 38 Degrees e-mail ref the recall petition was self explanatory.
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/freedom-cheaper-than-iraq-war/comment-page-2/#comment-459540

    In any case over the course of the last few hours since 5.30pm, 4,500 signatures have been added so there is no need for Habbabkuk to bother his head.

    There are now 150,849 signatures. Bravo!

  33. Did you keep away from that 15th February march, Anon, because you thought there’d be a load of weirdoes. Well, yes, it was full of weirdoes, of all colours, classes, ages, and sexual orientations. We are all weirdoes, and (apart from other things) it is our right to be weirdoes that our forefathers fought for in ww2.

  34. @Mike: It was same with reporting on Iraq. The BBC seem to be treating this as if it was a war against the Donbass. The BBC was very different in its reporting of the war with Vietnam… shows how times have changed. And how in turn the BBC have changed young people minds: anti-war, 60s; pro-war, 00s, (or would have done if the young didn’t rebel and turn to their computers…)

  35. The chocolate teapot in Ukraine had better watch out. If he heats everything up too much, he will be in danger of melting.

    ~~

    Well said Peacewisher ref the march. It seems like centuries ago. But only 10 years and in that time, so much killing and maiming.

  36. Yeah, Peacewisher, Gilligan knocked the stuffing out of them. They are little better than a neo-con mouthpiece now.

  37. “Ukraine Vows to Bring Peace to the East” runs the BBC headline.

    That’s as close to “War is Peace” as you can get.

    Peacewisher: Learn the truth online. Yes. Then what? Step away from the screen and into he street, if you want to make the change. It’s the only way.

  38. Wrong to blame Gilligan. He was just a journalist trying to get a story out. The big mistake seemed to be not having a proper strategy for protecting their source, and wilting to Blair’s bully boys verbal aggression. As you say, Mary, suddenly it is as if it happened yesterday.

  39. Mike: bottom-up will last and be self-sustaining… (cf 38degrees) top-down will have to be maintained by lies… maybe even violence… (cf. condem coalition)

  40. I’ve added my signature Mary. One thing that concerns me is what 38 degrees does with the money it gets.

  41. NATO petition now has 3750 signatures. Needs a lot more.

  42. Let’s sign that petition!

    Write the names of certain websites in a public place. Agit-prop graffiti. Spread the truth.

  43. Mike, I’ve been spreading it via Facebook. The first time I shared it three other petition links, two with NATO in the title were posted with it. They appeared to be pro-NATO petitions so I deleted them. I tried to repeat the procedure and could not get it to repeat. So I suggest people check especially their first share.

  44. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    31 May, 2014 - 12:12 am

    Herbie

    I think you’re very angry with the Poles about something or other. What is it that makes you so angry? My guess would be that you’re angry about the role Poland (through Solidarity) played in ridding Eastern Europe of Russian imperialism(followed by the breakup of the Evil Empire itself), but do correct me if I’m wrong! :)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Since you mention history:

    “Then again it may just be the case that the Poles are pathologically incapable of understanding how you behave when next door to a major regional power. Their history would certainly suggest that that is the case.”

    let me ask you: how, in your opinion, should Poland have “behaved” after 1933 and, specifically, how should it have “behaved” in 1939?

    Let’s see if the great geo-strategist dares answer that one! :)

  45. Mike work out how you can control market forces then in turn you will get a handle on the corporations in turn you can set the dichotomy of governmental democracy in which also controls market forces.
    Influence the media and the banks and you will have a real leftist society, guarantee an ideal and hey presto. No need form vandalism.

  46. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    31 May, 2014 - 12:15 am

    From the egregious Herbie

    “…since their foreign policy is fronted by here today gone tomorrow, British educated Bullingdon boy, Radosław Sikorski.”

    _________________________

    Radoslaw Sikorski has been the Polish Foreign Minister since 2007, Herbie.

    That makes 7 years so far (with more to come).

    Hardly “here today gone tomorrow”, Herbie.

    Longer than you’ve been commenting on CM and probably longer than you’ve been unwaged.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PS – have you ordered those books by the excellent Anne Applebaum yet, Herbie? You know it’s the right thing to do!

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    31 May, 2014 - 12:19 am

    Herbie

    And when you do get round to answering the questions, Herbie, try to do so without resorting to four letter words, there’s a good lad:

    “And fuck off with recommending her drivel.”

  48. Kempe

    The Poles wanted a permanent stationing of NATO troops, and other defenses as a final solution to their fear of the East.

    You see, they thought they’d joined the wonderful West as full civilised members, law and order rules all, you’re a democracy right. We’ll have no more bullying here. Everything is subject to the law, except when our new powerful friends say otherwise.

    Despite persistent requests going back to 1999, when they joined with hopes of tomorrow, very little has been done to address their concerns.

    The West is reluctant to give them the defensive measures that would finally remove the threat from the East, whence they’d become their truly independent selves. Probably quite formidable, given time.

    Why?

    Whilst their partners in Europe are cuddling up to Russian interests behind the scenes, poor old Poland, very vulnerable Poland, with the least military resources, facing a walk over border with the beast, is the most openly and subversively aggressive against Russia, on behalf of their partners. Their very distant partners.

    Georgia.

    NATO: All for one, and one for all.

    On the borders. It’s everyone for themselves, usually. Borders are a release valve from authority.

    It can get quite human at times.

  49. Jermyn St. Jim.

    31 May, 2014 - 1:19 am

  50. All that drivel about Poland, Havashite, when Britain looked on and dithered when Poland was overun by the Nazi’s, because the yankee doodle dandy was not involved then.

    Poland was overun by the Germans first on their way to defeat east and on their return fleeing home. Then they were overun again by the ruthless Russian army, straffing them for letting the Krauts cross their lands.

    Your pathetic palpative rewriten here is naive and childish. Craig will enjoy a good laught on his return.

    Now carry on with usurping this blog, you poor sod.

  51. EU trying to use financial and legal (tendering process flawed?)pressure stop the South Stream gas pipeline to Europe, through Bulgaria:

    http://www.euractiv.com/video/barroso-warns-bulgaria-south-stream-case-we-will-act-50267

    even though the contract will bring Bulgaria more money than its annual EU “allowance”.

    Meanwhile, Russia is negotiating a deal to put the pipeline through Turkey:

    http://www.worldbulletin.net/turkey/137676/4500-syrians-flee-to-turkey-in-three-days

    And all because the US is suddenly in charge of EU policy.

    How stupid is this!

    Greece is also looking for a slice of the South Stream action… we all know they’d love to get away from the EU, and couldn’t be so easily bribed as Bulgaria.

  52. I often wondered where Cowper Coles, ex ambassador and HM special representative in Afghanistan and Pakistan, had washed up.

    ‘“Too big to jail” HSBC will also have representatives, the Group Chairman of HSBC Holdings, Douglas J. Flint, and his senior advisor Sherard Cowper-Coles. These mega banks have a longstanding record of financial fraud:

    “Goldman symbolizes master of the universe of financial manipulation (Reuters April 16, 2011) It’s been involved in nearly all financial scandals since the 19th century… In 2002, it was largely responsible for Greece’s debt problems. It involved circumventing Eurozone rules in return for mortgaging assets.

    Using creative accounting, debt was hidden through off-balance sheet shenanigans. Derivatives called cross-currency swaps were used. Government debt issued in dollars and yen was swapped for euros, then later exchanged back to original currencies.

    Debt entrapment followed. Greece was held hostage to repay it. The country’s been raped and pillaged. Paying bankers comes first. Doing it left Greeks impoverished, high and dry. Goldman profited enormously by scamming an entire country and millions in it.”(Stephen Lendman, Goldman Sachs: Making Money by Stealing It, sjlendman.blogspot.ca, 17 March 2012)’

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/bilderberg-2014-war-criminals-big-oil-and-too-big-to-jail-banksters-meet-in-secrecy/5384502

    ‘His first role as a head of mission was in Tel Aviv as the British Ambassador to Israel from 2001 to 2003’ Enough said.

    ‘In 2011 Cowper-Coles became BAE Systems’ international business development director, focusing on the Middle East and south-east Asia.[7] He is a committee member of the Saudi-British Society. [8]

    His appointment at BAE caused some controversy, since he is thought to have “had a profound effect” on the decision by Robert Wardle, then director of the UK’s Serious Fraud Office, to end an investigation into BAE’s allegedly corrupt dealings with Saudi Arabia.[9]’ That fits.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherard_Cowper-Coles

  53. Mark ref your concern about the finances of 38 Degrees.

    They appear to be quite open about their finances. There is a link to their latest accounts within http://www.38degrees.org.uk/pages/donations-to-38-degrees

    and here is their board. http://www.38degrees.org.uk/pages/board/

    FAQ http://www.38degrees.org.uk/pages/faq/#petition

  54. I was speaking to someone yesterday, and we were discussing the referendum. He mentioned that his brother was the only male still alive from his primary school in Glasgow. Alcohol and substance abuse had claimed the lives of most of them, His brother was 53 years old.
    Rule brittania.

  55. ” All that drivel about Poland, Havashite, when Britain looked on and dithered when Poland was overun by the Nazi’s, ”

    Nazi invasion of Poland started 1st September 1939. Britain declared war on the 3rd. On the 17th in accordance with a secret treaty drawn up with Germany the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, the county being divided up between the two. Poland surrendered on 6th October.

  56. doug scorgie

    31 May, 2014 - 9:48 am

    Anon
    30 May, 2014 – 6:49 pm

    “Sorry, but I won’t sign any petition instigated by hard leftist Lindsey German.”

    I imagine Anon that, to you and your fellow trolls, anyone to the left of Mrs Thatcher is “hard left.”

    “…something so manifestly wrong as the Iraq War…”

    Have you ever made any comments on this blog Anon, condemning the Iraq war?

  57. More Better Together dirty tricks. BBC website.

    Scottish independence: Vote No Borders advert pulled over child hospital claim
    The advert claimed Scots would find it difficult to get treatment at the children’s hospital after independence
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27632803

    B&Q investment to ‘pause’ after Yes
    The boss of the company that owns B&Q says investment would “pause” in Scotland following a “Yes” vote in the referendum.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27639649

  58. Fuck B&Q.

    DIY Scotland!

  59. “Chuck Hagel said the US would “not look the other way” when nations ignored international rules.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27646223

    Er… Mr Hagel, have you never heard of Israel?

  60. News just in:

    Her Serene Highness The Princess of Monaco has been shagging.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27643408

  61. These LDs take some beating. Now it’s Shirley Williams leaping to the defence of Rennard.

    One of the founding members of the Liberal Democrats has played down the seriousness of the issue of Lord Rennard’s alleged sexual harassment.

    Party peer Baroness Shirley Williams said the row had been “blown up”.

    Lord Rennard Lib Dem row ‘blown up’ – Shirley Williams
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27647721

    Her mother Vera Brittain feminist and pacifist would have disagreed strongly with her.

  62. Wikipedia’s new privacy policy.

    http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/05/07/launching-a-privacy-policy-built-the-wiki-way/

    What’s that about? Something to do with internet search providers being ordered by the EU to take down personal info on request this keeping the secrets of the gansters-in-charge secret.

  63. Habbabkuk

    You are not a troll darling. You are an invited guest so that predatory drone Hasbara trolls scanning this blog for anti-Zionist New World Order sarcasm will land and be dream-charmed by your insolent tripe and fly away again.

    That duck on the lake is a decoy.

  64. Thanks Mary – and some powerful exposures esp.

    30 May, 2014 – 4:42 pm – the Chilcot whitewash.

    As an important and successful vehicle to giving back function and capacity to ordinary folk my request to 38 degrees for individual board members remuneration was simply an exercise in economics out of interest and not an examination of probity.

  65. Pot calling kettle black.

    Khartoum is a centre of Sufism. Many Sudanese pray to their prophet, peace be upon him, instead of to Allah. If they persecute a Christian woman for praying to Jesus, they have to destroy the whole population who practise the same crime inside Islam..

    btw since when 9 x 9 isn’t 81, please?

  66. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    31 May, 2014 - 1:25 pm

    Herbie

    “The West is reluctant to give them {ie, Poland } the defensive measures that would finally remove the threat from the East”
    ___________________

    Thank you for confirming that Russia is a threat to Poland, Herbie.

    You are progressing and would progress even further if you would now finally answer my question:

    “I think you’re very angry with the Poles about something or other. What is it that makes you so angry?”

    Why are you so angry with Poland, Herbie?

  67. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    31 May, 2014 - 1:32 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “I imagine Anon that, to you and your fellow trolls, anyone to the left of Mrs Thatcher is “hard left.””
    ____________________-

    As usual, Doug, your imagination and that of your fellow bitches is working overtime.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Have you ever made any comments on this blog Anon, condemning the Iraq war?”
    ____________________

    Have you ever made any comments on this blog, Doug, condemning Russian actions in Eastern Europe from 1944 to 1990?

    If so, please provide links of course.

  68. I’m angry with Poland because they prevented us qualifying for the 1974 World Cup, and destroyed Bobby Moore’s reputation all in one go! LOL.

    I would also be have been angry with Argentina about Maradonna’s “Hand of God” goal, but I thought the Argentina had already suffered enough for Galtieri and being on the wrong end of Thatcher’s wrath.

  69. * Argentinian People.

  70. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    31 May, 2014 - 3:02 pm

    Can anyone on this blog ( perhaps one of the wise Excellences? ) name one country in the world – other than Russia – whose Head of State is a former secret policeman?

  71. Well, there’s a wind up, Habby!

    Look no further than the USA. I believe George Bush senior was Head of the CIA before becoming a Senator, and wasn’t there a Hoover family association between intelligence and State? I think that’s why the US doesn’t make more of it regarding Putin. You’re welcome to though… although aren’t people encouraged these days to have a second career?

  72. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    31 May, 2014 - 3:27 pm

    It’s pretty pervasive. So pervasive many can’t see the forest for the trees…lol.

    http://www.kickthemallout.com/article.php/Story-Obama_CIA_Creation_Part_4

  73. Why are you so angry with Russia, habby.

    Don’t bother. I know. It’s so awfully annoying when anything gets in the way of your plans for world domination, eh.

    For my part I’ve made it very clear that I’m concerned with Poland’s western dominated leadership, following an American policy ill-suited to long term Polish interests in the region they inhabit.

    I’ve pointed out that they’ve fallen foul of such errors many times in the past and have yet to learn the lesson.

    I’ve further pointed out that NATO and the West have little interest in their security, yet leave them to continually prick the beast whilst the West itself is cozying up to the same beast behind the scenes.

    I am concerned, you see.

    I think the West is using them and they again will pay the price.

  74. A gift suggestion for the poster @ four above. Some Secret Policeman’s Balls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkQhK8O9Jik&list=PLAC478AEF2EE10B1E

  75. How dare they! We really are the Sooty and Sweep of the US glove puppeteers.

    Was it:

    US spy drone flies…..

    or

    US spy drones fly….

    Typo in the heading.

    US spy drones flies in UK airspace for the first time
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27626879

  76. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    31 May, 2014 - 3:52 pm

    I thought Habba was all jacked-in and a sagacious member of the dark forces. To leave himself open with such an elementary question speaks more to his arrogant dismissal of anything that doesn’t fit his widget-shaped world.

    http://williamblum.org/aer/read/65

    “The odd part of Obama’s story is that he doesn’t mention the name of his employer. However, a New York Times story of 2007 identifies the company as Business International Corporation. Equally odd is that the Times did not remind its readers that the newspaper itself had disclosed in 1977 that Business International had provided cover for four CIA employees in various countries between 1955 and 1960.

    The British journal, Lobster Magazine – which, despite its incongruous name, is a venerable international publication on intelligence matters – has reported that Business International was active in the 1980s promoting the candidacy of Washington-favored candidates in Australia and Fiji. In 1987, the CIA overthrew the Fiji government after but one month in office because of its policy of maintaining the island as a nuclear-free zone, meaning that American nuclear-powered or nuclear-weapons-carrying ships could not make port calls. After the Fiji coup, the candidate supported by Business International, who was much more amenable to Washington’s nuclear desires, was reinstated to power – R.S.K. Mara was Prime Minister or President of Fiji from 1970 to 2000, except for the one-month break in 1987.

    In his book, not only doesn’t Obama mention his employer’s name; he fails to say when he worked there, or why he left the job. There may well be no significance to these omissions, but inasmuch as Business International has a long association with the world of intelligence, covert actions, and attempts to penetrate the radical left – including Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) – it’s valid to wonder if the inscrutable Mr. Obama is concealing something about his own association with this world.

  77. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    31 May, 2014 - 4:15 pm

    Oil? Future wars will be over water rights.

    http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/new-turkish-aggression-against-syria-ankara-suspends-pumping-euphrates’-water

    “The Turkish government recently cut off the flow of the Euphrates River, threatening primarily Syria but also Iraq with a major water crisis. Al-Akhbar found out that the water level in Lake Assad has dropped by about six meters, leaving millions of Syrians without drinking water.

    Two weeks ago, the Turkish government once again intervened in the Syrian crisis. This time was different from anything it had attempted before and the repercussions of which may bring unprecedented catastrophes onto both Iraq and Syria.

    Violating international norms, the Turkish government recently cut off the water supply of the Euphrates River completely. In fact, Ankara began to gradually reduce pumping Euphrates water about a month and half ago, then cut if off completely two weeks ago, according to information received by Al-Akhbar.”

  78. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    31 May, 2014 - 4:23 pm

    “‘It could be anybody – antagonists from either side.'”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2644058/Do-not-walk-dog-Muslims-not-like-dogs-Fury-poster-discovered-near-popular-London-park-warns-dog-walkers-stay-Islamic-areas.html#ixzz33JAQbjIK
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    I suspect it’s an Islamophobe trying to wind everyone up.

  79. kempe, thanks for the dates, but sadly Germany’s invasion and threats to Poland were known since they walked all over Austria, Britain knew of their plans well in advance.

  80. The MP quoted made a scene at a constituent’s wedding because his wife could not sit with him. I think he knew full well what happens at a Muslim wedding. Same applies in a synagogue Mr Fitzpatrick.

    Government minister under fire for walking out of Muslim wedding
    Jim Fitzpatrick criticised for leaving the segregated ceremony after being told he could not sit with his wife
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/aug/14/minister-criticised-muslim-wedding-segregation

  81. ” Britain knew of their plans well in advance. ”

    Possibly why the agreement guaranteeing Poland’s borders was signed. Didn’t act as the deterrent expected though.

  82. Not so much a forest Ben more like a grove in Kent with right-wing Nigel Farage fingering British nationalism to conjure a distinct party at the center-ground of British public opinion.

  83. doug scorgie

    31 May, 2014 - 8:13 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    31 May, 2014 – 1:32 pm

    “Have you ever made any comments on this blog, Doug, condemning Russian actions in Eastern Europe from 1944 to 1990?”

    Totally irrelevant Habbabkuk; just a diversionary tactic on your part.

    Anon said that the Iraq war was manifestly wrong yet he has never, to my knowledge, criticised the actions of the west in that war.

    He has not replied to my question.

    He is a shithead like you so I don’t expect an answer.

  84. They knew what was coming, Kempe, and theAdmirality and foreing office and war office thought,still, after Hitler annexed Austria, that he might just be bluffing? that he would not dare to invade Poland?
    what piffling excuse. Sorry but i really do not want to hark on about it as I have become a grand dad today, sod history, politics and all sorts.

    Could not get me shoppin’ done, my mind was in perplexual arse for tittage today…:)
    He looks lovely…..

  85. Congrats Nevermind. It is always nice to hear good news like that. Welcome to the world little one. Sorry we have made such a mess of it.

  86. Congratulations Nevermind.

    I have turned into a super liberal parent. When the youngsters are naughty, or un kind I shower them with Love like they are the victim of the unsuitable behaviour.

    So far so good.

    @ Mike

    Sorry mate anything is worth conceiving to improve thing en-masse.
    Isn’t it the butterfly effect or something?.
    Reckon kindness is the way to go and wishfully thinking as you know.

  87. Yes, congrats Nevermind. I recently had that pleasure as well.

    Mary: perhaps we should say “sorry we let them make such a mess of it”. It wasn’t quite such a mess 50 years ago, and that must be something to do with the generation before us. Guess we were soporified by gadgets and TV.

  88. I’ve just had a terrible thought. Iraq WMD case didn’t get passed at the UNSC because the African nations voted against. So neutralise Syria, put a black president into the White House and try again… yep it works! Russia isolated in the UN Security Council.

    Others apparently don’t think Obama is doing such a good job:

    http://rt.com/news/162740-bilderberg-meeting-leak-agenda/

  89. Kindness should be part and parcel of life, Jay. But the psychos in charge of the out-of-control US war machine are ruled by death and controlled by the lies they tell themselves.

  90. Congratulations Nevermind!

    Best wishes to all :-)

  91. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 Jun, 2014 - 2:50 am

    Squonk blog down. Hope AA isn’t down permanently.

  92. The next McCain

    1 Jun, 2014 - 5:12 am

    When they inducted normal people they naturally fragged the officers so now the troops are all schizoids and mental defectives. It’s a whole new way to lose a war.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607?print=true

    https://wikileaks.org/afg/event/2009/06/AFG20090630n1790.html

  93. Nevermind, please pass on my congratulations…

  94. Palestinian resistance. A weapon transformed into a thing of beauty.

    Under The Olive Tree (CKUT.ca)

    Palestinians plant flowers in Israeli tear gas canisters: http://bit.ly/1e0Ngzk

    West Bank garden of teargas canisters – in pictures: http://bit.ly/17w2Lxo

    From a Canadian radio station’s facebook page
    https://www.facebook.com/uot.ckut/info

  95. Congratulations to you too peacewisher, and thanks for the good wishes. Lets hope the same good luck will be bestowed on to the Independent campaign. The more one looks into Osborne’s financial juggling, the more one realises that the dependency might be the other way round.

    Its Britain that needs Scotlands fishing industry, their armorical knowhow, their deep water ports and their oil and gas.RBS is a bit of a liability at times but I’m sure that they can find a Canadian to sort that out.

    Can they also have a referendum on the same day for a dedicated official ‘Trump dunking day’, were all gather and watch Donald being blessed with an ancient $ iron around the chops, in scottish waters off course, each and every year, to keep him cleansed form his past and ongoing sins…..;)

  96. should have been ‘ancient 4 iron’

  97. Craig mentioned the Purnell effect before ie BBC carrying the Labour prop. This is another example which I read this on the BBC website. The neoliberals are alive and well in the Liebour Party, supporting privatisation.

    Blair aide warns Labour over public service strategy
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27647728

    Lord Wood? Who he? Never heard of him. He is a Miliband peer and a paid adviser to Miliband
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewart_Wood,_Baron_Wood_of_Anfield

    http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-wood-of-anfield/4217

    Nita Clarke is the daughter in law of Tony Benn and Emily Benn’s mother. Note Emily’s support of Iraq war on the Wiki page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Benn

    Emily attempted to become an MP but she is starting at the bottom and is a new councillor in Croydon.

    Stephen Benn, Nita Clarke’s husband.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/16/tony-benn-title-father He is taking the title of his late father! FFS

    http://www.ipa-involve.com/about-us/ipa-people/ Nita Clarke’s employment.

    What a bunch.

  98. Hasn’t Mother Nature done away with the Trump aberration on Scotland’s Eastern coast yet? I hoped the winter storms and the floods would have done their worst and covered the thing in sand and debris.

    He is messing in US politics I see. Tea party stuff.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/05/30/donald-trump-goes-mainstream/

  99. Ou est notre ami?

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