World Domination

by craig on May 3, 2014 3:58 pm in Uncategorized

Add together the cities of Donetsk, Kharkiv and Lugansk and you don’t reach the economic output of Dundee.  World domination it isn’t.  Unfortunately both in the Kremlin and on Capitol Hill they, and their satraps, think it is.  Neither side cares at all about the millions of ordinary people in the zone of potential conflict.

The spiral of death in Ukraine is very worrying.  Following the tragic deaths in Odessa, the ball is very much in Putin’s court.  His bluff has very much been called.  We will now learn whether he was stoking clashes in Eastern Ukraine and massing forces on his border in order to give a pretext for invasion – which pretext he now has – or in order to destabilize and intimidate Kiev into moving away from relationships with the EU.

This has been a discussion of the deaf even more within intellectual circles in the West than between Washington and the Kremlin, where at least the Machiavellians understand full well what they are doing.  But their followers either, on the one hand, deny that there are any far right elements on the Ukrainian side or any CIA assistance, or alternatively deny that there are many millions of ordinary Ukrainians who genuinely want to be at peace in their own country and move towards the EU.  They either claim that all the separatists are Russian agents and deny the genuine minority population which yearns for the Soviet Union or Russia, or they deny the existence of Russian agents and special forces in Ukraine, and that most of the Russian nationalists are every bit as right wing and appalling as the equivalent tendency on the Ukrainian side.

First, some history.  The Ukrainian people really do exist.  They have been a subjugated people for centuries, most lastingly by the great Polish-Lithuanian  Empire and then by the Russian Empire.  That does not mean they did not exist.  Consider this: until 1990 there had not been an independent Polish state for over two hundred years, except for a fleeting twenty years between the two world wars.  Yet nobody doubts the Poles are a real nation.  I shan’t start on Scotland again …

None of modern Ukraine was Russian until the 18th century, when the expansion of the Russian empire and decline of the Polish took in these new colonies. As Putin famously remarked, it was called New Russia.  Yes, Vladimir, note it was New.  That is because it was a colony. Just like New York.  Because it was called New Russia gives you no more right to it than the Channel Islands have to New Jersey.  Ukraine had been Russian seven hundred years before its 18th century reconquest, but that population had migrated to Muscovy.

The expansion of the Russian Empire was exactly contemporary with the expansion of the British and American Empires, and other bit players like the French.  Like most of the American, most of the Russian Empire was a contiguous land mass.  The difference between the Russian and British Empires, on the one hand, and the American Empire on the other, was that the Russians and British did not commit genocide of the existing populations.  The difference between the Russian and the British Empires is that the British gave almost all of theirs back in the post-colonial period (a process that needs to be urgently completed). Russia gave back much of her Empire at the fall of the Soviet Union, but still retained a very great deal more than the British.  It is to me inarguable that, in a historical perspective, Putin is attempting to recover as much of the Russian Empire as possible, including but by no means solely by the annexation of Crimea and his actions in Ukraine.

Crimea, incidentally, had maintained its own independent existence as the last remnant of the Mongol Horde right up until the 19th century.  Despite the Russian colonisation of Crimea in the 19th century, it still had a majority Tatar population until the 1940’s, when Stalin tried his hand at genocide on them.  The Tatars were branded Nazis.  Opponents of the Russian Empire are always “Nazis” or “Jihadists”.  The deportation of the Tatars from Crimea was only twenty years before the British did the same genocide to a smaller people in Diego Garcia.  I call for the restitution of both.  Those who call for the restitution of one and not the other are appalling hypocrites.

Equally hypocritical are those who call for a referendum on Russian union for East Ukraine, but not for referenda on independence for Dagestan and Chechnya.  It is an irony insufficiently noted, that in Russia to call or campaign for the separation of any part of the state is a crime punishable by up to 22 years’ imprisonment.  There are over 7,000 people from the Caucasus imprisoned under that law.

There is absolutely no movement among the large minority Russians of the Baltic States to rejoin Mother Russia, because living conditions in the EU are just so much better.  As I have blogged before, it is undeniably true that living conditions for ordinary people in Poland have vastly improved as a result of EU membership, and are much better than in Ukraine – or Russia.

GDP per capita figures for Russia look quite good, but do not give a true reflection of living standards because of astonishing levels of inequality of wealth.  This is very bad in the West, and getting much worse rather rapidly, but is nowhere near as bad as in Russia which is the most viciously capitalist state in the world, made worse by its commodity dependency.  The Russian economy is completely non-diversified, manufacturing and services are miniscule and it is overwhelmingly a raw commodity exporter in energy, metals, grain etc.  That leads to extreme concentration of profit and a lack of employment opportunity.  Combine that with mafia state corruption and you have the oligarchs’ paradise.  Russia is a gangster state.  On top of which, if I were a Russian who campaigned against the Russian government in the same way that I do against  my own, I would be dead.

The desire of ordinary Ukrainians to join the EU one day, and move closer to it now, is understandable and indeed commendable.  It was also the desire of Yanukovich.  Those who claim Western pressure on Yanukovich forget – or choose to ignore – that Yanukovich’s government had actually, quite independently and voluntarily, negotiated the EU co-operation agreement and were on the point of signing it, when Yanukovich was summoned to Moscow by Putin and informed that if they signed the agreement, the energy supplies to Ukraine would immediately be cut off in mid-winter and debt called in.

That is a fact.  It was not illegal for Putin to do that; it was perhaps even legitimate for those who believe in a Machiavellian approach to great power politics.  Yanukovich temporized, between a rock and a hard place.  Ukraine seemed to be at a key moment of  balance, hung between the EU and Russia. The capital being in West Ukraine and overwhelmingly ethnic Ukrainian, pro-EU crowds started to build up.  Then things started to get wildly out of control.

Were western governments encouraging pro-western groups in Ukraine?  Yes, that’s their job.  Did this include covert support? Yes.  Were the Russians doing precisely the same thing with their supporters?  Yes, that’s their job too.  Did the Americans spend 5 billion dollars on covert support?  Of course not.

Victoria Nuland claimed in a speech America had put 5 billion dollars into Ukraine.  I used to write those kind of speeches for British ministers.  First you take every bit of money given by USAID to anything over a very long period, remembering to add an estimate for money given to international projects including Ukraine.  Don’t forget to add huge staff costs and overheads, then something vast for your share of money lent by the IMF and EBRD, then round it up well.  I can write you a speech claiming that Britain has given five billion dollars to pretty well anywhere you claim to name.

The problem is that both the left and right have again, equal but opposite motives for believing Nuland’s bombast about the extent of America’s influence on events.  I have been in this game.  You can’t start a revolution in another country.  You can affect it at the margins.

A military coup you certainly can start.  One thing we don’t really know nearly enough about is what happened at the end, when Yankovich had to flee.  The Maidan protestors would never have caused a government to fall which retained full control of its army.  The army can fail the rulers in two ways.  First is a revolutionary movement among normal soldiers – the French revolution model.  Second is where the troops remain disciplined but follow their officers in a military coup.  The latter is of course a CIA speciality.  More evidence is needed, but if this is the second model, it is unusual for it not to result in military control of government.  Egypt is the obvious current example of a CIA backed coup.

After Yanukovich we had entered the world domination game.  Putin seemed to have lost.  The annexation of Crimea was a smart move by Putin in that game, because there probably is a genuine small majority of the population there who would like to join Russia.  I have no doubt whatsoever that Putin himself does not believe the 93% for a moment.  As I said, the Machiavellian players of world domination are realistic; it is their purblind followers on either side who buy their propaganda.

The Kiev government and the West should have conceded Crimea before Putin moved his troops into it.  The sensible thing for the new Kiev government to have done would have been to offer a referendum in Crimea itself, under its own auspices.  That would have got the most hardline pro-Russian voters out of the country for good. But by that time, everyone had gone into Macho mode, which is where we still are.

None of the remaining provinces would opt to join Russia given the choice.  There is no shortage of existing and historic opinion poll evidence on that.   Crimea was the only province with an ethnic Russian majority.  The Eastern provinces have Russian speaking majorities, but most are ethnic Ukrainian. I base ethnicity here purely on self-identification in census (and, as I have repeatedly explained, absolutely everybody in the former Soviet Union knows precisely what is asked in the questions of Gradzvanstvo and Narodnosch). Just as some Welsh people speak English, some Ukrainians speak Russian but do not consider themselves Russian.  Putin’s frequent references to the Russian-speaking peoples coming back to Russia are as sinister as if we started talking of re-uniting all the English speaking people in the world.

As almost always with colonies, the minority ethnic Russian populations in the East of Ukraine are more concentrated in urban areas.  Hence it has been possible in regional capitals to mobilise gangs of disaffected and unemployed Russian young men (in view of Ukraine’s basket case economy there are plenty), and with a slight stiffening of Russian forces take control of town centres.  There is a significant minority, and possibly a majority in town centres, willing to support.  It is, I think, extremely important to understand that the thugs on both sides are very unpleasant.  I have the particular experience of relations with a lot of Uzbeks, and the incidence of racial attacks by Russian nationalist thugs within Russia itself is absolutely horrifying and almost completely unreported.  The swastika is a popular symbol among young macho men throughout all of former Eastern Europe including Russia.  I absolutely guarantee you that an equally significant proportion of the pro-Russians who have been attacking anyone who tries to show support for Ukraine within Eastern Ukrainian cities, are no more and no less right wing, racist and vicious than the appalling Pravy Sektor thugs included on the other side.  We have plenty within the EU – there is a serious problem, for example, with the official encouragement given to commemorations of pro-Nazi forces within the Baltic states which often have a distinctly neo-Nazi tinge.

Putin’s campaign of controlling the urban centres appears to have gone wrong in Odessa, which is simply too large for the numbers of available young men armed with baseball bats to take control.  The pro-Russians were badly beaten in precisely the same street fighting they had been winning elsewhere.  The culmination of this was the terrible fire and deaths. My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals.  I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.

Putin now has a real problem.  His own rhetoric has indicated that he will sweep in and defend these Russians, but there is one thing anyone with half a brain should have worked out by now.  The ruling 1%, the ultra-wealthy, in both Russia and the West are so interconnected with each other that they are playing the game of world domination while trying at the same time to make sure nobody super-rich really loses his money.  Hence the strange obviously bogus sanctions regimes. Real stock market disruption and confiscation of corrupt assets would be difficult to avoid if the tanks start rolling in earnest.  We may be saved from utter disaster by the sheer scale of global corruption, which is a strange conclusion.

I would like to think the awful deaths of the last few days would lead both sides to step back from the brink.  The time has come for a peacekeeping force.  Negotiations should be held urgently to make the Kiev interim government more inclusive of opposition elements from the East – and they must oust the far right at the same time.  The UN Security Council should then send in UN peacekeepers, which must include both Russian and western forces in close integration, to keep the peace while genuine elections are held.  I can see no other way forward which does not risk disaster.

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469 Comments

  1. “I’ve only been an occasional poster, but agreed with most of what Craig has written most of the time until the Ukrainian matter arose. He is clearly displaying a view of Russia based on the cold war and the USSR, which I suspect is still prevalent in the FO, although Russia has clearly moved on.”

    This is a fair assessment. I have not been back but to Russia. The cost of a flight and accommodation is one reason, which shows just how much it has moved on. However I’m hoping (planning) to go when Russia hosts the World Cup in 2018, providing the Yanks/Zionists have not succeeded in their aims of world domination to cover up the incredibly super-fast growing mountain of debt under which their economy is drowning. When it drowns, or we are annihilated, whichever comes first, it will be the death of modern economic systems as we know them. Those who survive will have to try and cobble together what’s left and build a more moral society, which excludes oligarchy, monopoly, monarchy and hopefully the anarchy these non-egalitarian systems spawn.

  2. Craig,

    Re: “British did not commit genocide of the existing populations”

    How does the British treatment of the Australian Aboriginals sit with that statement?

    “The following year, the Human Rights Commission handed down a landmark report on the “Stolen Generation” that described how tens of thousands of aboriginal children of mixed race were taken from their parents between the 20s and 60s as part of a systematic policy of “breeding out the colour”. The president of the commission, Sir Roland Wilson, said, “We as a committee have decided that what was done meets the international definition of genocide? which is the attempt to destroy a people, a culture.””
    http://johnpilger.com/articles/fixed-race

    “The most enduring and insidious Murdoch campaign has been against the Aboriginal people, who were dispossessed by the arrival of the British in the late 18th century and have never been allowed to recover. “Nigger hunts” continued into the 1960s and beyond. The officially-inspired theft of children from Aboriginal families, justified by the racist theories of the eugenics movement, produced those known as the Stolen Generation and in 1997 was identified as genocide. Today, the first Australians have the shortest life expectancy of any of the world’s 90 indigenous peoples. Australia imprisons Aborigines at five times the rate South Africa during the apartheid years. In the state of Western Australia, the figure is eight times the apartheid rate. ”

    “The City of Sydney ruling is a very different gesture, and admirable; for it reflects not a liberal and limited “sorry campaign”, seeking feel-good “reconciliation” rather than justice, but counters a cowardly movement of historical revision in which a collection of far-right politicians, journalists and minor academics claimed there was no invasion, no genocide, no Stolen Generation, no racism.”

    And so on…..
    https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=site:johnpilger.com+aboriginal+genocide&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=_f9lU4SnKMqI0AXHjoHwDA

  3. CM: “the British gave almost all of theirs [empire] back”

    Laughable. The British establishment did not “give back” the empire. They lost it. For reasons such as native revolt, growing workers power, growing US empire, German empire and two world wars…

    To repeatedly assert, as you keep doing, that the British establishment gifted the end of empire is a delusion that, perhaps uncoincidentally, mirrors your personal moment of revelation about the horror of empire. However, a delusion it is.

    The British establishment to this day adapt tactics to cling to the new ways of empire. See this, newly found in the national archives:

    Foreign Secretary Alec Douglas-Home, 1970:

    “Our position as a permanent member of the Security Council gives us special opportunities for using the United Nations as a forum to exert our influence. Indirectly the United Nations development assistance activities may help to preserve Western influence in the third world”.

  4. Hat tip to Tony Opmoc LINK,

    The Ukrainian global 9-11 redux seems as if the US is probing with every dirty trick in their bag to learn if they have any magic left. They do not. What this tells us is that they are alone and on the run. They burned every bridge, broke every treaty, and have no friends left, no allies; even Israel turned its back. The Nobel Laureate didn’t get a dime from the House of Saud. Moreover, Russia didn’t even sniff the bait. This in turn tells us that the cartel, not only had to plan the operation themselves, they had to pay for it too! Can you imagine! Obviously, they tried to do it on the cheep by assembling a coalition of criminals. Americans absolutely could not do it, they are tired, dead broke and sick of the slaughtering.

    Putin, emasculated the coalition of the criminally insane and turned operation Crimea into operation Dirty Dick Chaney (AKA Obama) meets Lorena Bobbitt. As Putin said, “What is happening today before our eyes is the end of one international system and the birth of a qualitatively different one.” In other words, US lawless savagery is over. Putin understands that America can not be bargain with, it has to be stopped. Russia was not given a choice. The barbarians were at their gate.

    Over the next months, in the controlled media, we are going to be subjected to a tidal wave of agonizing talking heads, Obama apologists and spin doctors, ad nauseam. Please, spare us, the ignominy. However, the one thing that is news worthy and will not be on any news program, is that if we don’t get our act together, if we don’t stop the senseless murdering of entire cultures, and soon, the world will stop us, one way or another.

    What can we do? Boo them everywhere they show their face in public and stop watching TV, especially the controlled news. That would be a good start. However, the smartest way I know how to reverse the destructive path we have taken is to rebuild our culture by diverting funds from war to education and the arts; the rest will follow naturally.

  5. (T)here is one thing anyone with half a brain should have worked out by now. The ruling 1%, the ultra-wealthy, in both Russia and the West are so interconnected with each other that they are playing the game of world domination while trying at the same time to make sure nobody super-rich really loses his money.

    Only up to a point. Berezovsky, for example, lost his.

  6. Wikispooks 4 May, 2014 – 7:46 am
    “If only we had a leader of his [Putin] stature in the west”

    What a truly pathetic statement. Really fucking idiotic. You, my internet warrior friend, are deluded.

    Putin is a killer. He is a greedy self serving elitist. He is no different to the establishment here. CM is right when he points out that the rich and powerful on both sides have more in common with each other than they do with us.

    Your Andrei Fursov article is as partial as Craig’s here. Kasparov my arse. What do you thinks happens to dissenters in Russia? The same as what happens here. Except more so.

  7. Some points:

    a) I can see several comments asking Wikispooks not to leave but not the one saying the is going. The answer to which is that the only two people who have ever been banned are still commenting, and that nobody is forced to be here, but Wikispooks would be very much missed. Frankly, I don’t see the point of only going to blogs where you agree with everything. I don’t value or devalue people according to whether they agree with me or not. Wikispooks comments have been very welcome for many years, and his website is excellent.

    My views on Russia and Putin have been very consistent. Russia is much less free than the West – a really nasty autocracy with a still more vicious capitalism. My views are hardly new – seven years ago I was rather ahead of my time in warning very loudly about German energy dependency on Russia and Russian human rights abuses.
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2007/06/russian_journal/

    I come at this from a human rights perspective – where Putin scores very badly – and from an anti-imperialist perspective. From Tashkent the world looks different and you understand that there is a struggle firstly, within Islamic ex-colonies to gain freedom from Russian trained colonial elites like Karimov, and secondly in the still colnised Islamic colonial areas like Chechnya, Dagestan and Tatarstan to get freedom from the Russian Empire at all.

    On genocide, yes kiwi I stand corrected on Australia, thanks. On the end of the British Empire, I have a different view to the dogmatic Marxists among you as to the extent this was entirely due to local resistance, or to which ideological change in the UK itself post 1945 hastened it. That is however irrelevant.

    The point is that the British Empire did end, almost completely and needs to be finally ended. The Russian Empire has not ended – undeniably in Chechnya and Dagestan – is reasserting itself, and that Putin is a right wing nationalist imperialist.

  8. Matthew Maly,

    Thanks for the compliment. You cannot “misspell” a Russian word in the English alphabet. Transliteration from Cyrillic is entirely a matter of taste. There is no “correct” spelling. I accept your correction on meaning as my Russian has got very rusty. My point however was that throughout the FSU the distinction between ethnicity and nationality is well understood as both were included on passports and all official documents.

  9. I agree with your overall assessment and take, but it is only correct to call Tatarstan/Tataria a colonised Islamic area if you wish to make an argument rooted in the 16th century.

  10. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 11:39 am

    “‘Obama made fun of conservative television hosts’ talk about Putin’s bare chest and one’s comment last year about Putin being headed for a Nobel Peace Prize. “To be fair, they give those to just about anybody these days,” said Obama, a laureate himself.’

    Yes Obomber you did get one didn’t you. As Shillary said, ‘We came, We saw, He died’. That was nice for Gaddafi, Osama Bin Laden and all those you have killed extrajudicially by drone, Hellfire missile and the bullet.”
    _____________________

    It would be nice if people ceased posting sour dross.

    “To be fair, they give those to just about anybody these days,” said Obama, a laureate himself.’

    Has the thought occurred that Obama might – might just – have been making a joke about himself? Demonstrating a sense of humour so sadly lacking in some of his detractors here and elsewhere?

    BTW, I hadn’t realised that Khadafi was killed by Obama or even by another American, but hey, you learn something new every day on here!

  11. N_

    Like Ireland, for example? Absolutely it is a colony, as all of Ireland was and part still is.

  12. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 11:57 am

    Craig

    “The point is that the British Empire did end, almost completely and needs to be finally ended.”
    ____________________

    Agree largely with your follow-up posts, including the one from which the above quotation comes.

    As far as I can see, the Empire now consists of only a handful of rather small territories – Falklands, Ascension, St Helena, BAT,….

    You might prefer to answer on a future, more appropriate thread (if at all) but I’d be interested to know exactly what you mean by finally ending the Empire. Do you mean granting independence to those few small territories, most if not all of which would be unviable or only barely viable as independent entities (including economically)? If so, are you aware of any desire for independence in all or any of these territories, andd what would be gained from independence from the point of view of both the mother country and those territories themselves? Or are you thinking of matters like judicial “independence” (eg the Privy Council’s rôle)as well? Or, finally, is this just a postion of principle you’ve adopted?

  13. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 12:02 pm

    Craig

    Your reply to N_ prompts me to ask you a further question: do you think that the French DOM-TOMs are in reality part of a French Empire (and should therefore also be given independence) or do you accept that they are integral parts of the French Republic?

  14. @Craig. You make the point that Ireland was settled centuries ago too. But one major difference between Ireland and Tatarstan/Tataria is that the vast majority of people who live in Ireland today call themselves Irish, whereas a large proportion of the population of Tatarstan/Tataria call themselves not Tatar but Russian. Far from being a colonial elite, like the British in say India, the Russians in T/T are people of all classes. Granted, there is a slight overweighting of Tatars as against Russians in lower social groups, but the imbalance is nowhere near as stark as to indicate Russian colonialism in an Islamic country as you depict it. Incidentally, whereas the class mix among Russians in T/T is about the same as it is among Tatars in that country, the same is not true among some of the other ethnic groups with a smaller presence there, such as the Chuvash, Udmurts, Georgians and Jews.

    Nor is Northern Ireland any longer essentially a settler state, any more than the US is a European colony or collection of such.

  15. Sofia Kibo Noh

    4 May, 2014 - 12:29 pm

    Craig.

    Thanks for your perspective.

    Some footage here of Kramatorsk citizens and Ukrainian soldiers yesterday.

    What would you say is going on in this 3 min clip?

    It seems to me like an awesome display of raw courage by citizens who are clearly facing the threat of lethal force with their own bodies and vocal chords. Also a display of courage by the Ukrainian soldiers who clearly disobeyed orders and know there will be consequences.

    Any other explanations?

  16. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 12:30 pm

    O/T – forgive me!

    @ Technicolour

    You are perhaps no longer following the “Apartheid Israel poison is out” thread and I therefore allow myself to tell you that I’ve posted a reply (at 13h25 today) to something you wrote there and which I believes merits a rejoinder.

  17. Ukrainians have divided loyalties. A great majority of them want to see their country free of Russian or Western domination. The Jewish oligarchs and powerful Western Jewish lobby groups want Ukraine to become an American while 18% of country’s Muslim population prefer to stay neutral in this conference.

    The convicted/pardoned Jewish former Assistant Secretary of State Elliott Abrams, in a post at the CFR magazine (March 1, 2014) compares the situation in Ukraine to Obama’s caution on attacking Syria or Iran.

    “Those who are wondering whether we need to pass sanctions legislation now and put more pressure on Iran should take all this into account. Like Putin, the ayatollahs likely see our failure to act in Syria (indeed our willingness to be “rescued” from action by Putin) as a sign that they can drive a hard bargain indeed with us over their nuclear weapons program, giving up nearly nothing and getting sanctions relief. And now they see us reacting (so far) to Russian aggression in Ukraine, sending troops across the border into the Crimea, with tut-tutting,” wrote the Jewish convict.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/03/06/chief-rabbi-wants-american-boots-in-ukraine/

  18. O/T Is there some state agenda ongoing ref the IRA and Sinn Fein? I haven’t heard much about the Protestant crimes in this reworking of the past. Why now?

    Adams has been under arrest for 4 days now.

    The BBC say:
    Sinn Féin accused of ‘blackmailing’ PSNI over Gerry Adams
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27272696

    This morning Sue McGregor revisited the Omagh bombing on BBC Radio 4.
    The Omagh Bombing
    Duration: 45 minutes
    First broadcast:Sunday 04 May 2014
    The Omagh bomb was the worst massacre in Northern Ireland’s modern history. On Saturday the 15th of August a massive bomb placed by the so-called Real IRA killed two unborn twins, six men, twelve women and eleven children. The dead included Protestants, Catholics and a Mormon. The blast wave was so powerful that the bodies of several victims were never found.
    The bombing was “a barbaric act intended to wreck Ireland’s aspirations for peace and reconciliation,” said President Clinton who came to walk amongst the wreckage. Only four months earlier Northern Ireland’s main political parties had signed up to the Good Friday agreement, power sharing was on its way and the Provisional IRA was on ceasefire.
    No one has ever been convicted in connection with the massacre at Omagh but in April 2014, Seamus Daly was arrested and charged with 29 counts of murder over the attack.
    The 43-year-old bricklayer, originally from Culloville, County Monaghan, but now residing in Jonesborough, County Armagh, also faces counts of causing the explosion in Omagh and possession of a bomb in the County Tyrone market town with intent to endanger life or property.
    In this episode of The Reunion, recorded shortly before charges were brought against Daly, Sue MacGregor is joined by Kevin Skelton whose wife Mena was killed by the bomb, Michael Gallagher and Victor Barker whose sons Aiden and James also died, former RUC police constable Richard Scott, and by BBC Northern Ireland’s Political Editor Mark Devenport.
    Producer: Emily Williams
    Series Producer: David Prest

  19. Ref http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/world-domination/#comment-455925

    Has the thought occurred that Obama might – might just – have been LAUGHING IN OUR FACES?????

  20. Habbabkuk seems to be in a time zone that is different to the UK’s?? He says he posted a comment to Technicolour at 13.25hrs on the apartheid thread. It actually went up at 12.25hrs BST.

    ???

  21. Another Revolt
    March 1, 2014, the clamor of Kiev

    by LAURA MANUELIDIS

    In vivid night no flags flew—
    Only stars, shiftless, spoke the wind—
    Wind that obeys no boundaries

    Blossoming the good
    from the buried bones again
    Their thick sweet opening under smoke

    As the pockmarked earth spread scabs
    To heal the poison, the unceasing wounds
    that separate the tribes—of howling

    Wolves: from the elephants shy in their
    compassionate tears
    Backing away from man and woman
    Kind— to regain the original place
    of everything and nothing at once: Nameless.

    Laura Manuelidis is a physician and neuroscientist. She has been published in diverse literary journals including: The Nation, Oxford Poetry, Innisfree Poetry, Evergreen Review, Counterpunch, and Poetry Magazine . Her two poetry books: Out of Order, and One / divided by Zero, are available on Amazon.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/02/manuelidis-orloski-kangalee/

  22. My sincere thanks to Wikispooks for his fact finding and straight line comments here. His link to Andrey Fursov’s explanation of the behind the scene trepidations of oligrachs with strong western connections has made my day.

    Keep happy and healthy, I’m sure that many here will frequent your blog and resources in future, cheerio

  23. “Any other explanations?”

    It can be assumed because of the population ethnicities of Ukraine that a good number will be pro-Russian. I do not think these soldiers want to open fire on unarmed civilians in their own country. It’s a bit like Westminster wanting to take back,say, Newcastle (if Newcastle did an Occupy takeover). These armed forces personnel were nothing like the angry western-funded mob that was bussed in specially to murder the peaceful occupiers of a Trade Union building in Odessa. Also, they probably know already that Eastern Ukraine is a lost cause and the best this illegal government can hope for is trying to keep its blood-stained hands on Western Ukraine.

    My own prediction is that they will lose that battle too. Now everybody in the world knows what Ukraine knew yesterday: that the Nazi thugs, paid for by the Oligarchs and the west, have murdered the ordinary citizens (men and women) of Odessa, and it will be a hard public relations exercise to win back support for the thugs in power. A damage-limitation exercise is underway and Yatsenyuk has, allegedly blamed the security services for allowing it to happen (BBC). Odessa is not far from Moldova, which is strongly pro-Russian, and may even cede to Russia before too long. What then? Russia will have to protect its interests.

  24. Craig:

    Just so you know, Raphael Lemkin himself wrote about what happened to the Tasmanian Aboriginals as an example of genocide.
    http://press.anu.edu.au/apps/bookworm/view/Humanities+Research+Vol+XVI.+No.+2.+2010/5271/docker.xhtml

  25. H.G Wells also wrote in ‘The War of the Worlds’:

    “And before we judge of them too harshly we must remember what ruthless and utter destruction our own species has wrought, not only upon animals, such as the vanished bison and the dodo, but upon its inferior races. The Tasmanians, in spite of their human likeness, were entirely swept out of existence in a war of extermination waged by European immigrants, in the space of fifty years.”

  26. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 1:47 pm

    Odessa is not far from Moldova, which is strongly pro-Russian, and may even cede to Russia before too long.

    Moldova is not strongly pro-Russia – a part of it Transdnistra is. Another demonstration of Mr Goss’s lack of knowledge about this part of the world.

  27. Further clarification following Craig @11:09:

    All I meant – and still mean by ‘Cheerio’ and leaving etc is that this blog is no longer on my grossly overcrowded RSS feed list. Nothing more. Which in turn means that I am unlikely to see further posts or contribute comments unless specifically pointed at them from elsewhere.

    As a clearly principled individual who has paid a heavy price for his honesty, I still wish Craig well but there are many many other sources of informed comment and analysis competing for attention and, for reasons discussed in many previous post comments, this blog has been moving steadily down my ‘must-read’ list; that’s all. Craig’s Russo-phobia is simply the last straw for me.

    Thanks to supportive commentators and I expect the wiki to be online for the foreseeable future.

  28. You do show your ignorance RD time and again. 27% of the population of Chisinau, the capital, is Russian. A lot of the culture too is Russian. Transnistra treats itself separately and is a very thin strip of land.on the border of Ukraine.

    Another demonstration of Dr jekyll’s lack of knowledge about this part of the world.

  29. New
    Pro-Russian activists attack the main police station in Odessa in south Ukraine, two days after violence left some 42 people dead.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27276120

  30. Ashton in that speech to the Ministerial Council of the OSCE December 2012.

    ‘Mr Chairman, as you have indicated, protracted conflicts continue to pose a serious threat to stability in the OSCE region. The conflicts in Georgia, in the Republic of Moldova and the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict are costly, both politically and economically. And they also put limitations on international cooperation.

    We continue to play a key role in the resolution of these conflicts, by co-chairing the Geneva talks and participating in the “5+2” negotiations on Transnistria. The time has come in the negotiations for the parties to agree on the basic principles for a future settlement. The EU supports confidence building measures to help this process.’

    http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_Data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/134083.pdf

    She’s into everything and everywhere with her own fascist foreign service set up.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_External_Action_Service

  31. Ah yes, Wikispooks.

    I had a look at the site some time ago – the 9/11 page I think it was. There was a long list of the alleged masterminds, all with a little Star of David pictured next to their image. Lovely.

    Afraid to say I didn’t venture any further into the site.

  32. Why was this body inflicted on us when there is a United Nations organisation. All part of the political superstructure of the good ship SS European Union. Does anyone else remember when the EU started as the ‘Common Market’?

    OSCE: Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe
    http://www.osce.org/who/108218

    Does the existence of the OSCE explain why Mr Ban Ki Moon is so quiet at the moment?

  33. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 3:08 pm

    Carry on digging Mr Goss

    What proportion of the population of Moldova is Russian?
    What are the other 73% of Chisinau?
    Why is it now Chisinau rather than Chisinov?
    What is the main language in Moldova?
    To what other European language is it closely related?
    Which members of the United Nations recognise Transdnistria as a separate state (Mr Goss obviously does – probably as it is the last Stalinist enclave within Europe and therefore a good thing in the eyes of himself and Putin) ?
    How does having 27% of the population in the capital equate to the entire country being strongly pro Russian?
    To which country does Moldova always give 12 points in Eurovision?
    Is the US hiding the Malaysian Airlines plane in the Rezina limestone quarry?

    You really ha

  34. “You really ha ”

    Spit it out man.

  35. R.D. Have you been to Moldova?

  36. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 3:18 pm

    “All part of the political superstructure of the good ship SS European Union.”

    Hardly the old Soviet states were members from the beginning

    http://www.osce.org/who/history

    Of course old Soviets never had much time for the Helsinki Accords and all that bad behaviour it encouraged among its psychiatric patients.

  37. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 3:20 pm

    John Goss

    Yes on work – some of my wife’s relatives were also sent there against their will.

  38. And what language did you use?

  39. Sorry, RD, what language did you speak in Moldova?

  40. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 3:34 pm

    Mainly English and a bit of Russian – but only because my Romanian/Moldovan (and the locals will insist there is a difference) is non existent. Yes in the old Soviet days – the local bosses were all Russian and the locals were forced to learn Russian – but I think you will find things have moved on from the old colonial days.

  41. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 3:40 pm

    BTW; Squonk, an astute observer, watched the entire live-feed. He saw the police standing inert while the victims sought refuge in the building subsequently and intentionally set ablaze.

  42. I had heard that Raisa Gorbachova was a Tartar and that it was she who had persuaded her husband to allow for a partial return of the Tartars to Crimea, but looking for confirmation of this online I found a Guardian obituary that suggested that it was her critics who had described her as Tartar – was she, and if so did she express a Tartar identity?

  43. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 3:42 pm

  44. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 3:45 pm

    Hat Tip to Sofia for the link. The People know what’s going on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=75dlup0WXGY#t=0

  45. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 3:49 pm

    “Putin’s campaign of controlling the urban centres appears to have gone wrong in Odessa, which is simply too large for the numbers of available young men armed with baseball bats to take control. The pro-Russians were badly beaten in precisely the same street fighting they had been winning elsewhere. The culmination of this was the terrible fire and deaths. My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals. I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.”

    Recognized identities of the victims of Odessa fire

    1. Biryukov Andrey, 1978 – G.S.W.
    2. Brozhevskiy Andrey, 1987 – fall from the high floor
    3. Bulakh Victor, 1956 – fall from the high floor
    4. Varenikina Anna, 1955 – choke on smoke
    5. Egorskiy Nikolay, 1976 – G.S.W.
    6. Zhylkov Aleksandr, 1968 – G.S.W.
    7. Ivanov Igor, 1987 – G.S.W.
    8. Kalin Anatoliy, 1976 – fall from the high floor
    9. Markin Vyacheslav, 1969 – deputy of the Regional Council, succumb to injuries in hospital
    10. Mishin Sergey, 1986 – died by fire
    11. Negaturov Vadim, 1959- Odessa poet, died by fire
    12. Nikitenko Maksim, 1982 – fall from the high floor
    13. Petrov Gennadiy, 1985 – G.S.W.
    14. Sadovnichiy Aleksandr, 1954 – died by fire

  46. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 3:51 pm

    Lucy; Brutal images of the guys who jumped to get out of the fire being stomped after the fall, according to Squonk.

  47. YouKnowMyName

    4 May, 2014 - 4:00 pm

    A historical – not hysterical – analysis of Crimea a decade ago puts ‘that corner of a foreign field that is forever Russia’ in context.
    [RFE/RL] no longer overtly CIA, has an interesting 5-part article on the ethnic/Russian situation in Crimea

    A typical hysterical news item of the moment claims that the FBI & CIA are overtly assisting Kiev – but its in German

    Meanwhile FBI.gov doesn’t specifically include maintenance of a perceived failing neo-con coup-d’etat located 4873 miles east of Washington as one of its key-roles, but presumably they have a different opinion on this!

  48. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 4:03 pm

    Ben The G S W after the names indicates the victims were hacked to death after they leaped from the buildings .

  49. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 4:05 pm

  50. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 4:06 pm

    Dreoilin; Obama is nothing, if not self-deprecatory in his humor. It seems to play into his hands.

  51. When I lived in Romania you could tell the market traders who came from Moldova because they all spoke Russian to one another. I gave one of them a copy of Bunin’s “хорошая жизнь” (The Good Life) because it is a short story about a woman who opened a shop. She told me later how much she had enjoyed it.

    There is also an area in Bucharest called Bassarabia, not far from Gare de Nord, which it would seem takes its name from that region of Moldova with the same name. Now in Romania the older generation were taught Russian but after Ceausescu nobody, or very few, learnt it. That was how it was easy to tell the difference between Romanians and Moldovans. Today, I think you will find that Russian is still widely spoken in Moldova.

  52. Lucy:

    I’m pretty sure G.S.W. stands for gun shot wound. Where is that list sourced from btw?

  53. Forget history. I firmly believe Russian or NATO tanks will not roll into Ukraine. The Ukraine Putsch was more about the West gaining control in Syria as I suggested in an earlier post and now witnessed in a cavalier antiseptic piece by Anne-Marie Slaughter:

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/anne-marie-slaughter-on-how-us-intervention-in-the-syrian-civil-war-would-alter-vladimir-putin-s-calculus-in-ukraine

    The best way forward is to admonish and burn into the memories of so many main stream exceptionalist, group thinking ‘zombies’ the recent history of Iraq.

    Those who forget or fail to grasp the U.S. corporate media’s regurgitation of the manifold and manifestly deceitful justifications for U.S. actions abroad.

    Let these brain-washed empty suits visit Fallujah, a town in dispensable Iraq. Let them witness the increases in the incidence of cancer, especially childhood leukemia, as well as a broad spectrum of birth defects like congenital heart disease, spina bifida and hydrocephalus.

    “Putin bad; Putin very bad. Shame on him; he sometimes has no shirt on, even on a horse. Bad, bad Putin.”

  54. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 4:41 pm

    Mark; It’s amazing to me how few see the connection between Sevastapol and Tartus.

  55. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 4:44 pm

    I think its via Andre Fomine at Oriental Review you can find him on facebook

  56. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 4:50 pm

    Cheeba Its from the South Front page on facebook prepare yourself for some gruesome pics

  57. WHAT DOES THE US WANT IN UKRAINE – PEACE OR WAR?
    “It is the function of the CIA to keep the world unstable, and to propagandize and teach the American people to hate, so we will let the Establishment spend any amount of money on arms.”– John Stockwell, former CIA official and author
    Note: John Stockwell was station chief in Southern Africa at the time the Cubans sent troops to help liberate South Africa and destroy the Apartheid system – so he should know what he is talking about.
    At present Zbigniew Brzezinski in his recent article “What Obama Should Tell Americans About Ukraine”says, inter alia, this about the Ukraine crisis:-
    “Obama should convey clearly to Russian President Vladimir Putin that the United States is prepared to use its influence to ensure that a truly independent and territorially undivided Ukraine pursues policies toward Russia similar to those so effectively practiced by Finland: mutually respectful neighbors, wide-ranging economic relations both with Russia and the European Union, but no participation in any military alliance viewed by Moscow as directed at itself – while also expanding its European connectivity. The Finnish model may be the ideal example for Ukraine, the EU and Russia.”
    Brzezinski ostensibly does not want a situation to escalate with Russia to the point where there is another Cuban Missile crisis situation. However he fails to ask himself some simple and logical questions by parity of reasoning:-
    1. Would the US tolerate missiles being placed on its backdoor in Mexico – or – again in Cuba? This is the parallel situation where if Ukraine becomes a NATO member – then the Ukraine is thereby committed to potential belligerent support of NATO – or – might take offensive action against Russia – backed by NATO?
    2. When a man like Henry Kissinger – or – Zbigniew Brzezinski uses the phrase, “ a threat to the international system” – are they not really saying “ a threat to a banking system raping the world and steadily falling into disfavor with Americans who are out of a job” – or – “a threat to the power balance where the US and Israel dominate and a group of bankers dictate to the lesser mortals around the world”?
    3. When a man like Brzezinski in his article ( quoted above) states further, “”Above all the president must clarify why we cannot tolerate an international system in which countries are invaded by thugs and destabilized from abroad” …
    Was/is it not the US which had fabricated the facts to fit the war in Iraq; is at war in Afghanistan; is busy destabilizing Venezuela; supports a proxy war in Syria; destroyed Libya; and – since the first successful CIA led coup in Iran – has been time and time again interfering in or destroying countries futures in places such as the Philippines, Chile and on and on and on. Just beautiful! So with that kind of track record – what is the true motive of the US in Ukraine?
    Are we all brain dead – or- is the US position on Ukraine likely to be any different than what has transpired before? And here is the same Brzezinski who supported the Mujahidin ( which morphed into the Taliban):-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaiJtLrEwVU
    Remember – as Brzezinski reminds us – it is “ a deep belief in God” that keeps these wasteful and wicked wars going.
    What a way to run a peaceful world!
    Idiotic warmongers!
    CB
    Footnote: Published here in Sweden: http://parnassen.wordpress.com/2014/05/04/peace-or-war-what-does-the-us-want-in-ukraine-brzezinski-har-svaret/#comments
    PS. And this is a fairly level headed and accurate analysis of the Ukrainian crisis worth listening to, if a better understanding is desired:-
    http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-871-geneva-business-insider-with-david-smith/

  58. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 4:54 pm

    “Today, I think you will find that Russian is still widely spoken in Moldova.”

    That is not the same as saying it is spoken more than Moldovan or that Moldova is strongly pro Russian – as you know all too well.

    If you were such an expert then you should be able to provide definitive and current answers to my questions.

  59. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 4:57 pm

    Mary

    “Ref http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/world-domination/#comment-455925

    Has the thought occurred that Obama might – might just – have been LAUGHING IN OUR FACES?????”
    _______________________

    Well, that thought obviously occurred to you, which is why you posted your original comment.

    And the thought that occurred to me was that Obama may have been making a joke at his own expense.

    You see, Mary, some people – I don’t count you among them of course – have a sense of humour.

    And now get back into that jar of pickling vinegar! :)

  60. Lucy; Brutal images of the guys who jumped to get out of the fire being stomped after the fall, according to Squonk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbeUmpQ_4nU

  61. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 5:03 pm

    Mary has a refined sense of humor which doesn’t include laughing about Obama’s disingenous operations. Others laugh at n***** jokes displaying their misanthropic bona fides.

  62. Look closely especially at 5-7 seconds in – left side.

  63. the Lemniscat
    ‏@theLemniscat

    #WTF?
    Israeli citizen Kolomoisky, coup-Gov of Dnipropetrovsk sets a bounty for hunting “separatists” #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/hK2G5RQ6IS

  64. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 5:14 pm

  65. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 5:15 pm

    “If you were such an expert then you should be able to provide definitive and current answers to my questions.”
    _________________

    The real answer, Resident Dissident, is that John Goss – truly the Insolent Squatter – has no expertise at all in matters Eastern European or Russian. Apart, of course, from some knowledge of the language, a good indoctrination in Marxist thought and (possibly) a couple of cycling tours in the region.

    What he does have, however, is an unerring ability to get his facts wrong, to swallow everything put out by RT (for example), to produce red herrings, straw men and ad hominems and to divert as soon as he has his back against the wall in any discussion. He is, in essence, a bad (and sad) case of the phenomenon George Orwell so cleverly identified as “transferred nationalism”. He is simply incorrigible (in the true sense of that word).

    Hope that helps!

  66. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 5:15 pm

    Squonk Yes I can see it its very clear what is happening in that video

  67. I’ll try and make that clickable

    pic.twitter.com/hK2G5RQ6IS

  68. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 5:26 pm

    Have just spotted this one from Mr Goss:

    “Odessa is not far from Moldova, which is strongly pro-Russian, and may even cede to Russia before too long.”
    __________________________

    Yes, which is presumably why Moldova (with strong support from Romania) has ambitions to move closer to and eventually join the European Union?

    The man really is a mendacious fool.

  69. “If you were such an expert then you should be able to provide definitive and current answers to my questions.”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/the-apartheid-israel-poison-is-out/#comment-455947

  70. RD, since they are your questions, and you obviously have answers to them, why don’t you share them. I did not ask you:

    “How can you tell the difference between Moldovan and Romanian market traders in Romania”. I gave you the reason. Perhaps you would like to do the same.

    As to speaking Russian in Moldova all my Moldovan friends do. They also speak Romanian. I think you will find more speaking Romanian towards the Romanian border, more speaking Russian towards the Ukrainian border.

    Hope this helps.

  71. I’ve just turned Habbabreak on. I wonder why people take a break from this twat from time to time.

  72. Channel 4 News in 30 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/lindseyhilsum

    Lindsey Hilsum ‏@lindseyhilsum 10m

    Reporting from @Donetsk @channel4news tonight including extraordinary scenes shot in #Odessa. Early time: 6.30pm

  73. What a magic piece of software. Thank you Afrend.

  74. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    What proportion of the population of Moldova is Russian?
    What are the other 73% of Chisinau?
    Why is it now Chisinau rather than Chisinov?
    What is the main language in Moldova?
    To what other European language is it closely related?
    Which members of the United Nations recognise Transdnistria as a separate state (Mr Goss obviously does – probably as it is the last Stalinist enclave within Europe and therefore a good thing in the eyes of himself and Putin) ?
    How does having 27% of the population in the capital equate to the entire country being strongly pro Russian?
    To which country does Moldova always give 12 points in Eurovision?
    Is the US hiding the Malaysian Airlines plane in the Rezina limestone quarry?

    1 Depends whether you include Transnistria or not.Theres quite a lot of Ukranians ,a
    large Roma population and a few Bulgarian villages.There is also Gaugaziz which is semi autonomous Gaugazians are a Turkic people.
    2 Id imagine your looking for Romanian as an answer they might call themselves Moldovans .People mix in cities not everyone is narrow minded .
    3 Looks like a change from the Russian to the Moldavian spelling.
    4 Moldavian ….artificial language to manufacture a Moldavian identity during Moldavianisation its Romanian essentially .
    5 see above
    6 Smirnoffs gone the new administration which includes the gorgeous Nina Shtanski is not Stalinist.”Its not communist its in-between” source Moldavian peasant from a Ukranian speaking village founded by Cossacks .
    Transnistria is recognised by South Ossetia and Nagorno Karabash if it had a US base rather than a Soviet one it would be recognised by USA,Israel and Palau within minutes the rest to follow.It was never part of Romania which would have a better claim to Bessarabia.Moldavia had an elected communist government I take it you prefer the Iron Guard?
    7 It doesn’t though Gagauzia likewise would like to trade with Russia and people are frightened of a revived fascism.
    8 Dont know 1/100 Romania,100/1 bar
    9 Definitely

  75. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 6:15 pm

    “How can you tell the difference between Moldovan and Romanian market traders in Romania”. I gave you the reason. Perhaps you would like to do the same.

    Perhaps you couldn’t tell the difference between the market traders speaking Moldovan and those speaking Romanian as the two tongues are pretty similar, but not identical as most Moldovans will tell you.

    I think I will leave you to answer my questions – I would like to give you the benefit of realising and correcting your original error. To say that a whole country wishes to cede to Russia based upon your market trader anectdote from many years ago when Moldova was part of the Soviet Empire and you were providing financial support to the egregious Ceausecu really doesn’t constitute evidence of even the most basic kind.

  76. Courtney, thanks for that lawyer’s analysis, which is difficult to argue against.

    AlcAnon/Squonk, thanks for the forthcoming Lindsey Hilsum report at 6.30 p.m. reporting from Donetsk on Channel 4. With the footage from Odessa there will hopefully be less bias than the BBC which describes the pro-Russians as ‘rebels’ despite the good guys being an unelected government.

  77. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 6:19 pm

    “Moldavia had an elected communist government I take it you prefer the Iron Guard?”

    Don’t be stupid – and would you care to speculate what its stance would be on ceding to Russia?

  78. “Perhaps you couldn’t tell the difference between the market traders speaking Moldovan and those speaking Romanian as the two tongues are pretty similar, but not identical as most Moldovans will tell you.”

    You’re wrong again. The only difference is guttural inflection and a few odd words which might even be described as an accent, like Geordie for example.

  79. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 6:24 pm

    I dont think Moldova wishes to cede to Russia Transnistria is another matter.

  80. John,

    You shy away like this:-

    ” Courtney, thanks for that lawyer’s analysis, which is difficult to argue against.”

    And I have read you against some quite belligerent and/or aggressive opponents.

    A “debate mouse” like me should be quite easy prey for you – surely.

    Smile.

    CB

    PS. But, don’t punch too hard – I am slim built ( ha…ha.. – just teasing).

  81. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 6:35 pm

    “The real answer, Resident Dissident, is that John Goss – truly the Insolent Squatter – has no expertise at all in matters Eastern European or Russian. Apart, of course, from some knowledge of the language, a good indoctrination in Marxist thought and (possibly) a couple of cycling tours in the region.”

    I really would question the indoctrination in Marxist thought given his undying support for all things Putin. Perhaps John might wish to explain how Putin and his oligarch friends do not constitute a rentier class exploiting the vast mass of the Russian population.

  82. Paul

    “many of the Neo-Nazis west of the Dnieper”. What oercentage of the population West of the Dnieper are you characterizing as Nazi?

  83. CB, that really made me smile. Thanks. There is so little humour, and to be honest, not much to laugh at these days, but thanks to you, and Sofia, we can suffer the trolling with a few smiles and the odd belly laugh.

  84. My comment earlier. Perhaps Habbabkuk could tell us which country he posts from that is one hour ahead of BST?

    ‘Habbabkuk seems to be in a time zone that is different to the UK’s?? He says he posted a comment to Technicolour at 13.25hrs on the apartheid thread. It actually went up at 12.25hrs BST.

    ???

    Answer please. Germany? France? Poland?

  85. Alacanon,

    I don’t know what that video shows. 5 seconds in there is a guy on the far left brutally attacking somebody on the floor. Whether that person on the floor jumped from the building, or whether he is on the floor because of the brutal attack, we cannot know. Who the person on the floor is, or who the attacker is, we don’t know. There are other people on the floor to his right.

    Then there is a cut for at least several seconds, as the man in black who was attacking has either gone or substantially changed position (the figures are blurred). Several people fall from the building. Nobody attacks any of them. At the end on the far right, one of them manages to get up and run away with nobody in shot making any move to stop him.

    While the people are jumping, nobody seems either to be attacking them – or to help them. It is not plain what the attitude of most of the people there is. Whether the tape is edited, or someone kept switching record on or off, is not plain.

    Your description makes the assumption that the guy who was on the floor being hit was one of those who had jumped. That is certainly possible, but it is far from the only possibility. The video does not actually show anybody jumping and then being attacked. In fact, it shows several people jumping and not being attacked.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbeUmpQ_4nU

  86. I am deleting comments that simply post links to diatribes by one side or the other – be they Brzezinski or some equally odious Prof from Moscow University.

  87. Lucythediclonius

    On that limited sample of victims my surmise was right. 93% male and no children. I have been on scores of political demonstrations, but never a 93% male one.

  88. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 7:13 pm

    Fine. Delete away. One point though; who is Paul?

  89. So let us say this goes the western US/UK/EU/NATO way, discounting (always a mistake) Russia entirely. It seems to me the largely agricultural western Ukraine is being gifted to Germany/the EU thus effectively, generously compensating Germany primarily for the loss of largely agricultural East Prussia, and part of present day western Poland: Germany’s former breadbasket, without which the difficulties in feeding Germany’s distressed people’s after the western-elite created and backed Hitler had wrought his worst, became acute and the country as so structured could never be anything other than a dependant dollar demoninated ‘world war two’ theme park. If the Kiev fascist’s putsch stands then much more will unravel, for a long time fascist elements in Poland have eyed those parts of Belarus which were formely part of the artificial re-created Polish state which existed between Versailles and the 1939 German occupation of Poland, Poland’s own fascist elements there had already unbidden, perhaps to ingratiate themselves with their Nazi idols, passed in 1938 discriminatory anti-semitic laws comparable to Germany’s own. I wish I could see a third option for Ukraine, a middle course between Moscow and Washington/Berlin centred subjugation and ruin, plus the depredations of ‘local’ oligarchs, tethered to no-land, and to nothing but their sense of entitlement to engorge themselves on whatever they choose, but realise this was exactly the line pursued by the Yanukovych government from which the people and country inevitably endured economic hardship, straddling a difficult line and whom the United State’s new pet nazis brutally toppled, the least worst option for all of Ukraine’s people then is the one the US just gleefully discarded. Neither Russia’s oligarchs nor its people will submit to death by a thousand pricks of US-inspired flea-bites from ultra-violent ultra-nazi anti-Russian hireling murderers.

    I can only presume from this the US and the UK will not stop fomenting war until devastating crushing total war has been visited upon their own people and nations and in that process the whole planet inevitably destroyed. The habitabilty of this fragile earth – this unstable vulnerable purely chance biosphere which is our highly-convoluted life-support system – and therefore continued human existence is already extremely doubtful due to our many nuclear follies, climate change though real is not even the same order of magnitude threat to our entire species. Shute’s ‘On the Beach’ scenario of a southern hemisphere unaffected by radiation, risibly unfounded, as no place on earth can offer even temporary respite, however deep the deep-state might dig themselves.

    By the time you read this comment, the situation will have become worse.

  90. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 7:24 pm

    “You’re wrong again. The only difference is guttural inflection and a few odd words which might even be described as an accent, like Geordie for example.”

    So you were able to tell that the Romanian traders were not in fact Moldovans speaking “Romanian”, merely on the basis of their accent.

    We still have to see your evidence for your original statement that Moldova is pro Russian and may cede to Russia.

  91. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 7:28 pm

    “I wish I could see a third option for Ukraine, a middle course between Moscow and Washington/Berlin centred subjugation and ruin, plus the depredations of ‘local’ oligarchs, tethered to no-land, and to nothing but their sense of entitlement to engorge themselves on whatever they choose, but realise this was exactly the line pursued by the Yanukovych government”

    If you believe that the Yanukovych government was seeking to avoid the depredations of local oligarchs you really are living in a fantasy word – just what proportion of government contracts were being awarded to his son?

  92. Craig,
    That was just one clip I found that someone has posted. I was watching the whole thing live and there were a number of scenes of the wounded being attacked after the fire brigade rescued them.

    By the way in today’s live streams, much of the crowd who descended on the Odessa police station were elderly ladies with umbrellas, in the pouring rain, demanding the release of their relatives. The news coverage on BBC and Channel 4 of course focused on the few aggressive elements at the front but they couldn’t quite get all the umbrellas out of shot in the Channel 4 footage. You see the tops of the umbrellas but we weren’t shown the old ladies underneath them.

    In case you think I only see nice old ladies on the Russian side, the pro-Russian crowd in Donetsk today most certainly does not consist mainly of old ladies and there could be a lot more trouble coming in Donetsk if things can’t be calmed down.

    In general the live streams have been very patchy today. Dropping out more often than they are up.

  93. lucythediclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 7:32 pm

    Craig you originally said young men and an earlier quote referred to baseball bats.I do have photographs of a pregnant woman killed in the fire which I can’t verify .It was a tent city which was originally attacked if there was any foreknowledge of the fascists being bussed in I don’t think many people would bring their children.

  94. Craig,

    Hope with this:-
    ” I am deleting comments that simply post links to diatribes by one side or the other – be they Brzezinski or some equally odious Prof from Moscow University.”
    That I did not stoke your ire.
    Indeed I mentioned Brzezinski and quoted from what he has recently prescribed. But, I did proceed in a logical way to denounce not only his hypocrisy, but his truly less than credible approach to issues of global governance.
    I do not hold any exalted position. I am merely a global citizen who fully understands that the present situation in Ukraine can easily spiral out of control and then strong and determined powers may then be staring each other down the barrels of guns – or even worse yet – be on the opposite sides of nuclear missiles threatening their use. More likely, Ukraine and its population becomes the pawn in a totally unnecessary proxy civil war.
    How do we bring some sanity to the international bargaining table – or is it all just Western and Eastern oligarchs and a corrupt banking system running the world?
    Assuming now – that nothing I have said on this blog makes me any time soon – a candidate for excommunication.
    CB

  95. Courtenay,

    No, it your comment wasn’t a problem. Referencing and quoting in argument is fine. I deleted a couple of comments which weren’t anything except links to other places, one of them Brzezinski.

    Alconon

    Thanks for the clarification. That’s pretty appalling, the attack on ambulances. Certainly there are plenty of mixed groups on both sides. But both sides also have attack forces that are a very different kind of thing. I really don’t know what happened at the trades union building, but the profile of the dead would give us a clue. We wait to learn more. Also I am not entirely sure what the status of the building was just before, and if entirely random people might have been visiting it.

    Obviously the loss of life , any life, is tragic. But if you are using violence as a tactic (as it is beyond denial pro-Russian forces are) then you can’t really claim to be horrified if you get hurt. Same goes for the other side too. In my mind, it makes a huge difference if this was a bunch of men acting violently, or a mixed group from a peaceful camp. I say that while genuinely not knowing which it is.

  96. Lucythediclonius

    Young is relative. They are younger than me, and I don’t consider myself physically unable! The Ukrainian side are claiming that the majority were Russian citizens or Transnistrians brought in to cause trouble. It would be a bold claim to make if they are lying, as obviously the bodies will be identified.

  97. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 8:19 pm

    Thanks AA.

    Why didn’t take Russian instead of Spanish?

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