Deadly Fiasco 616

The present problems of Iraq are 100% down to our murderous invasion and occupation. The idea that further western bombing will make things better is so deluded as to beggar belief.

I was surprised to find during my Burnes research that the imperialist powers of Britain and Russia were explicitly exploiting Sunni and Shia divisions to further their conquests of Islamic lands as early as the 1830’s. This has been the major tool of the neo-con Middle Eastern gameplan for some time, spreading disunity and crippling war throughout the Middle East, with the hope that this will benefit the interests of Israel.

The peculiar result has been that in general the West is very actively supporting Sunni armies and miscellaneous forces, but in Iraq is supporting the Shia. ISIS – which is heavily backed by the Saudis, who hate al-Maliki – brings this paradox into sharp relief. The current US and UK strategy is to persuade Saudi Arabia to get ISIS to reconcentrate their efforts against Assad, on the understanding they will be allowed to keep the Sunni areas of Iraq (the old neo-con plan of dividing Iraq is firmly back on the agenda).

The BBC News this morning said that ISIS would not be capable of using the billions of dollars of sophisticated western armaments they have captured. I think you will find the Saudis remedy that one quite quickly. It is quite possible we will see some token airstrikes to kill civilians in Mosul, in order to appease Obama’s domestic backers who are never happy if Americans aren’t killing enough people, but only after agreement has been reached with the Saudis that no serious harm will be done – except to the ordinary people neither Obama, the Saudis or al-Maliki care in the least about.

616 thoughts on “Deadly Fiasco

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  • MJ

    “I don’t think the US planned this! Maybe the UK did? Maybe Russia did? Maybe the Bankers did?”

    Follow the money. Whoever is arming these guys and paying their wages is controlling their actions.

    My guess is that the objective in Iraq is to provoke Iran into taking matters into its own hands. Shia muslims in Iraq will be targeted for spectacular carnage. Iran sends in troops to try and stop it. Iran gets denounced for its ‘expansionist’ agenda and then the war starts.

  • mark golding

    “..except to the ordinary people[serious harm] neither Obama, the Saudis or al-Maliki care in the least about.

    Just in case ‘ordinary people’ connect, coordinate, complement and capitalize in significant weight to bring about a formidable intention to resist and confront, the Pentagon is advancing social tools to discourage such trends:

    Pentagon preparing for mass civil breakdown:

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !


    re Irak casualty figures:

    I thought that you’d comprehensively demolished the pluckers-of-figures-out-of-thin-air a couple of threads ago, but by God, here you are havong to deal with the same group of punch-drunk, broken-down old pugs all over again!

    And of course, just like last time, you’re flooring them all over again!

    Well done!

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    Ah yes, the Lancet! The Lancet.

    The house journal where we could read that butter was bad for you but now it isn’t. That stanins could be ingested without fear, but now they can’t.

    Do drink two glasses of red a day. Err, actually, perhaps better not.

    I can see how, with such a record on things medical – things within its remit – the Lancet should be uniquely qualified to pronounce on matters well outside its remit and capabilities.


    There is a saying in a (continental) country which must remain anonymous: the only people more stupid than teachers are doctors.

  • Jives

    You know the trolls are losing the argument when they go into tag team mode..

    Habba is so far up Anon’s arse they might meld into one if they’re not careful.

    Still,i guess its a kind of sweet romance.

    And who here would deny them their little love-in?

  • Anon

    “Look at the violent deaths in Iraq before 2003, and after 2003, right up to present day.”

    So we are agreed that it takes a brutal secular dictatorship to keep a lid on Islamist violence, rather than Islam being some innately peaceful, innocent and harmless religion that takes only America and the West to to turn it into a violent rage? Because to my mind, to get to the kind of ridiculous figures you and Craig have cited here, that must be exactly what you believe.

    Peacewisher, I accept that the US-led invasion killed a lot of innocent people and that BLiar should be tortured on a lampost or whatever it is you want, but what I can’t tolerate is the kind of lefty wankery displayed by you and others here that wilfully exaggerates the numbers killed for political reasons – namely that you fucking detest this country and will say anything to make it look worse than it actually is.

    The vast majority of deaths in Iraq have been caused by fanatical Muslims killing each other and other Muslims. If you are opposed to the Iraq War as I was then you have to accept that tyrants like Saddam, Assad and Gaddafi are probably best left where they are.

    There is no lovely left-liberal outcome of Muslims loving each other and prospering if only America would stay out of their affairs.

  • Jives

    Tell that to a doctor the next time youre in need of urgent medical care Habbabkuk.

    But you wont will you because not only are you a fool and hypocrite but youre a coward as well.

    Now go and change your string vest.

    That strange yellowish colour is disgusting,not to mention the smell.

  • Anon


    We had all this with the Dresden ‘body count’. I informed Dross he was exaggerating the numbers killed by a factor of ten, backed up by German studies, and what was I told?

    That I didn’t care that ten times less were killed.

    Even Clark had to interject on that one!

  • Peacewisher

    Anon: You know nothing abut me and we seem to agree on a number of things so why are you getting so nasty? It is war that I detest not this or that country or politician. But any external politician that deliberately engineers what happens on the ground in a country for the purpose of creating war (or civil war) will not be my best friend. There has to be a better way.

    PS Body counts will always be a matter of dispute… Total for Guernica still varies from about 200 to about 4000.

  • mark golding

    “..punch-drunk, broken-down old pugs.” remember the ‘pug’ is really an extraterrestrial in disguise (a Remoolian). Take the piss and you will be taken to be deneuralyzed… (not so sure if this will have any effect).

  • MJ

    “The vast majority of deaths in Iraq have been caused by fanatical Muslims killing each other and other Muslims”

    Dat’s right. All dem bombs an’ missiles, dey was jus’ candy floss.

    Have you turned your forensic mind to the holocaust at all? Plenty to get your teeth into there!

  • Mary

    Anon with the green avatar, not the red one!

    John’s surname is Goss as you well know. Do not attempt your smear of referring to him as ‘Gross’.


    John You might be interested in hearing John Pilger on RT with Sophie Shevardnadze at 6.30

    In case it is a different programme to the one broadcast at lunchtime, here is the transcript of that.

  • nevermind

    I think ISIS final gamble will be to turn towards Iran, Saudi’s big bugbear, Turning Maliki upside down with all oil; rights up in the air, will not be enopugh for these warmongers.

    But I’m sure all the rich Oligarchs,millionares, settling warmongers/criminals, banks and usual multinational tax evaders will be very pleased if we help them in their immense task undermining the country with a comprehensive tax boycott.

    Would that stop these mind blowing ravages? demonstrations in London do very little.

  • Mary

    So here are five straightforward lessons — none acceptable in what passes for discussion and debate in this country — that could be drawn from that last half century of every kind of American warfare:

    1. No matter how you define American-style war or its goals, it doesn’t work. Ever.

    2. No matter how you pose the problems of our world, it doesn’t solve them. Never.

    3. No matter how often you cite the use of military force to “stabilize” or “protect” or “liberate” countries or regions, it is a destabilizing force.

    4. No matter how regularly you praise the American way of war and its “warriors,” the US military is incapable of winning its wars.

    5. No matter how often American presidents claim that the US military is “the finest fighting force in history,” the evidence is in: it isn’t.

    Don’t Walk Away From War
    June 12, 2014
    by Tom Engelhardt

  • Julian

    @Richard Alan Jones – LOL! Sorry we don’t have a recommend button.

    @ assorted trolls. There have been a number of well-researched estimates of the number of excess deaths in the Iraq War, the Lancet’s being one of them, utilising recognised methodologies, with excess deaths* from 500,000 – 1 million and other damage including wounded, displaced, homeless and psychologically maimed in the several millions – do you not recognise that this is a terrible crime and that is why so many people are horrified at the prospect of our lovely armed forces “helping out” again?

    * excess deaths = deaths that wouldn’t have happened if Iraq hadn’t been invaded.


    The anal-gazing over how many deaths is a purposeful diversion. Blame whomever you wish, but the death toll is the Butcher’s Bill that should be recompensed by those most responsible for this and other attempted debacles….


  • mark golding

    Proto-warfare often precedes, or leads up to, hot wars, as when a decade of economic sanctions, media demonization, and media-supported lies about ‘weapons of mass destruction’ led up to the Iraq war. Thousands of young American men and women were sent over to kill and be killed, or to be injured or traumatized, to say nothing of the up to a million Iraqis who died as a result of the war. However, Iraq did not possess nuclear or other weapons of mass destruction, so there was no danger of a nuclear conflagration. Matters are much different with respect to Russia and China, both nuclear powers.

    The Wolfowitz doctrine:

    “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”


    The one-percent doctrine of Cheney. “Hey, I think we can increase those odds”

    “The title of Ron Suskind’s riveting new book, “The One Percent Doctrine,” refers to an operating principle that he says Vice President Dick Cheney articulated shortly after 9/11: in Mr. Suskind’s words, “if there was even a 1 percent chance of terrorists getting a weapon of mass destruction — and there has been a small probability of such an occurrence for some time — the United States must now act as if it were a certainty.” He quotes Mr. Cheney saying that it’s not about “our analysis,” it’s about “our response,” and argues that this conviction effectively sidelines the traditional policymaking process of analysis and debate, making suspicion, not evidence, the new threshold for action.”

  • flinders

    Don’t see Western bombing happening. It runs counter to the tendencies in the ultimate authority. The UNSC’s current president, Russia’s Churkin, said no one has suggested measures against ISIS. Churkin and Gerard Araud are going to keep the focus on the failed state that US government aggression created in Iraq. UNAMI is talking sense against the US terror hysteria, insisting Baghdad is not at risk.

    What’s more worrisome is the likelihood that with all these emergencies, the Russian presidency might be too busy to promote UNSC reform, which everyone knows is vital to prevent more US crimes against peace. The US strategy is to pit aspiring permanent members against one another, but the real fight is to curtail the veto and end permanent membership altogether. Reform is a long game, and impeding it is one of the prime goals of US confrontation and destabilization. Keep the UNSC reactive and off-balance, that’s the US plan.

  • Rehmat

    On June 13, 2014, UK’s Jewish Chronicle reported that country’s Holocaust Education Trust, an Israeli advocacy group, has cancelled its annual dinner at the Dorchester Hotel as part of world-wide Jewish boycott call to punish Sultan of Brunei.

    “The Holocaust Educational Trust (HET) is a Jewish ultra-Zionist outfit, charged in the UK with Shoa indoctrination and it is interested only in the Shoa of one people and one people only. Visiting Auschwitz with the HET is probably as informative as sightseeing tour in Gaza concentration camp in the company of (Israeli justice minister and former Mossad’s sex-pot) Tzipi Livni,” said Gilad Atzmon, an Israeli-born British citizen.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    “Habba is so far up Anon’s arse they might meld into one if they’re not careful.”

    Nothing compared to the group sex you regularly indulge in with the likes of Mary, Herbie, Mr Goss, Tony M, Mike and others, Jives!

    And now off to bed with you, you’re only allowed out after midnight. 🙂

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    “John You might be interested in hearing John Pilger on RT with Sophie Shevardnadze at 6.30”

    Surely you meant Sophie Kibo Noh, Mary?

    Sounds like a perfect fit! LOL

  • mark golding

    Why Nuclear War? An insight from the command and control Navy machine at Northwood headquarters, Hertfordshire.

    The acute reason for war results from the imminent collapse of the trans-Atlantic financial system. Neither the British monarchy and its power base, the City of London, nor the Bush-Obama continuum and its power base, Wall Street, can tolerate the idea that their system would break down, while Asian and Eurasian countries, China, India, Russia–develop themselves economically(BRICS).

    Preparation IS in place for nuclear war as witnessed by NATO’s nuclear escalation

    By 2020 the F-16 fighter aircraft and Tornados of five NATO countries are to be replaced by F-35 Joint Strike Fighters capable of delivering B61-12 class nuclear bombs (0.3 to 1,200 KTons) modified to improve accuracy and the ability to glide to its targets reducing radioactive fallout. This would apply to countries that were previously considered to be non-nuclear, namely Belgium, the Netherlands, Turkey, Germany, and Italy and in my opinion is a violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and of the Obama Administration’s own promises.

    The failure of American strategy in Syria and Ukraine may lead to a more radical policy, a direct military attack on Russia and China.

    The signs have been ‘on the source’ since 2001 when tactical nuclear weapons were used to bring down the World Trade Center towers and during the 2003 Iraq war to smash Falluga.

    The modernization of tactical nuclear weapons starting with Israel modifying the W54 artillary shell in the 70’s is now a clear sign of the preparation of a USUKIS war against China and Russia. Tests of tactical nukes conducted with South Africa were known and I saw a ‘NOT FOR SOUTH AFRICA EYES’ signal that recognised the joint ISSA testing arrangement

    Increasing the potential of tactical nuclear weapons in Europe is all about the attainment of superiority in these weapons over China and possibly Russia.

    An aggressive NATO war will become possible, and China/Russia/Iran’s ability to retaliate against European territory will be limited and, out of fear of a U.S. strategic counterstrike, would refrain from using nuclear weapons.

    Smart-weapon systems, permeates all aspects of NATO and U.S. doctrines, all of which aim to eliminate air defenses, to destroy command-and-control functions, and thus to eliminate the second-strike capacity. This is the basis of the U.S. missile defense system in Eastern Europe; it is the basis for the “Prompt Global Strike” doctrine, as well as the Air-Sea Battle doctrine against China.

    In the (Strategic Studies Quarterly), the official journal of the U.S. Air Force, the authors Keir Lieber and Daryl Press had already announced the end of the Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) doctrine of NATO in the Spring of 2013, and put forward the theory that nuclear wars are winnable. Various critics of this delusion have pointed out that all these doctrines lead to a race to a first strike on both sides, and massively increase the danger of war.

    Britain and the US decided a decade ago to continue rule as a world empire (the ‘special relationship’) and is the context for the continuous eastward expansion of NATO and the EU, as well as the systematic strategy of encirclement of Russia and China.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !


    “@ assorted trolls. There have been a number of…etc, etc..”


    Assorted trolls? Don’t be a bitch, Julian, there are too many bitches here already.


    Yes, Mark. Don’t forget low-yield tactical nukes.

    On that note…

    ” Shi’te Muslim Iran is so alarmed by Sunni insurgent gains in Iraq that it may be willing to cooperate with Washington in helping Baghdad fight back, a senior Iranian official told Reuters.

    The idea is being discussed internally among the Islamic Republic’s leadership, the senior Iranian official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity. The official had no word on whether the idea had been raised with any other party.”

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    “The Wolfowitz doctrine:

    “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union.”

    From the American point of view that sounds eminently rational and sensible to me, Mr Golding.

    When you think about it, why should the Americans welcome the emergence of another rival similar to the late, unlamented Evil Empire?

    I don’t even welcome that prospect, so why should the Americans?

    What’s your problem with that?


    There will now probably follow a stream of abuse from the usual Useful Idiots., but no reasoned argument.

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