Air Disaster 530


Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.

We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.

What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.


530 thoughts on “Air Disaster

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  • Reluctant Observer

    Some won’t be unhappy at having critical attention shifted away from them, however.

  • Peacewisher

    I haven’t a clue what the usual suspects have been saying. It is quite a coincidence that a Malaysian Airlines 777 with a Dutch connection was involved both times. Otherwise…. I’m with you Craig. Could have been many causes.

    Thoughts for those who have probably perished and for their loved ones.

  • Dreoilin

    “Our thoughts and prayers are with …” has to be the most hackneyed phrase in the English language.

  • Fedup

    Whence the bankruptcy of ideology and paucity of thought have reached a critical point then the rats knackers come to forth to explain the narrative that has come unstuck. The shameless propaganda in bbc pinning the tragedy on the separatists in Ukraine as per its orders are an expected event.

    My condolences to those poor souls who lost their lives, their deaths could not have been and easy one, may they rest in peace.

    Also rest in peace those other souls whose equally violent deaths have been brought about by bombs and shells raining from the skies, in Gaza, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ukraine,….. may these souls find peace!

    The ghouls who facilitate these deaths are rarely touched by the tragedies they precipitate.

  • Laurent

    Craig, your point is well taken, but in fact there is an lot of evidence coming in. It’s not wrong or ghoulish to assess that evidence.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    Reluctant Observer and Fedup

    You cannot keep your ugly mouths shut even after Craig posted the above piece, can you.

    Abominable creatures, both of you.

  • doug scorgie

    Disgraceful speculation has stated on the BBC Live updates that theorizes that the plane may have been shot down by the Ukraine separatists with weapons supplied by Russia and what may be the diplomatic fallout if that proves to be the case.

    It didn’t take the BBC propaganda machine to kick in

  • Fedup

    Abominable creatures, both of you.

    Have you been overdoing the sugar again?

    Best get to your insulin pen quick!

    Abominable is the creature that begot you.

  • fred

    “The shameless propaganda in bbc pinning the tragedy on the separatists in Ukraine as per its orders are an expected event.”

    Is there more than one BBC? The BBC web site I read was saying that if the plane was shot down with a missile it was probably fired from another plane. I think that would pretty much rule out the separatists.

    The plane was over 10,000 meters high, that’s over 6 miles, while not impossible the rebels have equipment capable of that and somebody who knows how to use it I’d say it was unlikely.

  • Kempe

    Yes the BBC compares badly with the measured, unbiased response of more responsible outfits like RT.

    http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

    The Sukhoi 100 shown is half the size of a Boeing 777, something that ought to be obvious on the sophisticated radar supplied with Buk launches otherwise it’s vaguely plausible but as yet there’s no evidence either way.

  • Peacewisher

    @Dreolin: it was a mark of respect. “Many will have to suffer, many will have to die, don’t ask me why” – Bob Marley.

    @Doug: well at least the BBC have been consistent, even though they apparently had 5000 visitors yesterday, and I’m sure none of them would have been convinced… strange that their paymasters are me and you but they seem to take orders from another power.

    Nice of stop the war coalition to stage a demonstration on Saturday so Boris can cool them off and test out his new water cannon.

  • Bugger (the Panda)

    Unless it was trundled over the border and set up with either Ukrainian for Russian radar forces?

    I remain unconvinced on either side. I am a scientist and I try to keep my options open whilst I sift through the options and as much of the evidence as I can or am able to access. It is a reiterative rocess.

    Who I don’t trust one fucking inch, based on my experience in Scotland and their actions in Scotland vis the Referendum is the BBC. Shameful UK Government propagandist. At least with RT I kind of know the line they will take and expect to so. The BBC used to be my font of truth but no longer.

    They’ll be gone soon enough after the vote.

  • Fedup

    Is there more than one BBC?

    Obviously you don’t class telly, radio, world service, and internet as separate sources.

    Murdoch’s Sky is exempt, because of the Sun Clause and it is a “private organisation” ie it can call anything it likes as “news”, and it can pass anything it likes as “news”. Alas bbc is publicly funded and is suppose to be “accountable”.

    However given the internet (link would have been nice) narrative perhaps could be called the balancing factor to the telly news.

  • Dreoilin

    Sorry Peacewisher. I wasn’t talking about you.
    I was talking about what politicians say day after day, every time there is a tragedy.
    Someone needs to write them an alternative.

  • fred

    “Obviously you don’t class telly, radio, world service, and internet as separate sources.”

    Personally I don’t have a television and I don’t fund the BBC.

  • DoNNyDarKo

    The 777-200 has had so many problems. Cracks appearing in the fuselage,battery fires etc and then of course a disappearing plane.
    None of the eye witness reports so far have used the word missile. It might just be an accident.
    The BBC is the big news tragedy and their script writers have become more one sided than ever.
    They don’t even care or listen to the critiscism any longer. Just like Govt and Bank corruption,its out in the open and nothing happens.
    We have to pay for the lies they feed us.

  • Peacewisher

    @Dreolin. Yes, I know, and no offence taken!

    BBC Radio 4 surpassed itself this morning with a look at the papers and a quick sentence to say that the pictures on the beach in Palestine were too horrific for the papers to print [or talk about?] Then moved on to the usual bollox headlines…

  • Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    Heard the clamor from establishment-type pilots completely dismissing the possibility that it was da plane. Even though photographed near the time of impact (small cloud of black smoke that grew) there was breathless discussions about the possibility Russia downed with missile even though no smoke trail visible in sky. NO discussion about the possibility pilots may have suffered an oxygen failure, or the descent from 35k to 21k. Malaysian airlines limited their comment to ‘lost contact’.

    RT says BUKs deployed to Ukraine, and Russia says plane was outside their effective zone. That seems odd.

    I’m not so sure 777 is the great plane many pilots seem to think it is.

  • Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    I saw the news in the am and have been traveling so the updates are just now reaching me. It seems it was a missile based on the photographic evidence. I was, however, struck by the early prognostications that it was a missile without such evidence.

  • Derek

    I have been following the progression of the civil war fairly closely.

    At the end of June the Ukrainian air defence unit A-1402 based in Donetz surrendered (or changed sides to) the rebels. This unit operated a Soviet era BUKS missile system. Old technology but quite capable of shooting down planes at that height.

    The rebels put that unit into use last week when they shot down the Ukrainian AN-26 transport aircraft. Ukraine blamed Russia for the downing presumably to get the EU to impose more sanctions, but there is video on YouTube clearly showing the missile rising vertically to intercept the plane.

    In response to that incident Ukraine stopped military flights and closed air space to civilian traffic. They resumed military flights yesterday, but clearly they knew the rebels have a BUKS.

    The rebels have no air traffic control capabilities, and no civilian radar. It is all either destroyed or still in the hands of Ukrainian troops who still occupy Lugansk airport. (under siege)

    All civilian air traffic control is managed by the Ukrainian Government in Kiev.
    Now this is where it gets interesting, and no doubt some of you will violently disagree with me.

    If you look at the flight plan of MAS17 today you will see it goes directly over the war zone.
    http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

    Compare that with the same flight yesterday, and all the other carriers flights and you see they are routed quite a bit further South
    http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140716/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

    I have a pretty low opinion of the Kiev regime. It is full of fascists and neo-Nazis and has been engaged in warfare using heavy weapons against its own cities causing thousands of civilian deaths. I find it quite believable that they would deliberately route civilian traffic over a war zone in the hope the rebels shoot it down and draw the US and Nato into their civil war.

  • Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    Except Putin took that same flight path recently, Derek, but I understand your drift.

    Interestingly, many think MH370 was a diversional story intended to take public attention away from the real facts on the ground.

  • fred

    “At the end of June the Ukrainian air defence unit A-1402 based in Donetz surrendered (or changed sides to) the rebels. This unit operated a Soviet era BUKS missile system. Old technology but quite capable of shooting down planes at that height.”

    That makes some of the accounts plausible.

  • Peacewisher

    Russia found guilty of supporting/supplying the rebels on the high court of Newsnight. Ukraine regime presented as very reasonable and democratic. I’m sure we’ll soon see the “International Community” impose more sanctions. No doubt some will seek to use this as an excuse to take back Crimea for Ukraine. Dangerous times.

  • Fedup

    Derek

    If you look at the flight plan of MAS17 today you will see it goes directly over the war zone.

    How can we ascertain that the tracking (in your link) is carried out through conversational Radar systems?

    Otherwise dependent on the geolocation of the “trackers” we will get an error which could explain the anomaly.

    The fact remains that Boeing is trying to put the lipstick on their pig and blame the Johnny foreigner, or it could be some other factor.

    However the thugs in charge of Kiev are not getting the bad press that Yanukovych got, when he ordered the police to intervene in Maidan Nezalezhnosti which is now Euro Maidan!

    We decide who is democratic and who is not, the current democratic leadership in Ukraine can kill as many as those foreign daigos they like, they are still democratic. In fact the said democratic leadership in Kiev needs a helping hand by painting the dissenters as terrorists.

  • Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    Someone baited the trap. Things weren’t proceeding fast enough. Important players were given the technology to complete the scenario for quick and certain purposes, and the blood sacrifice for Western objectives were sent in, unaware. Can we trust any source?

  • Fedup

    I’m sure we’ll soon see the “International Community” impose more sanctions.

    Frankly I believe serves the Russians right! Those Russian assholes have been capitulating since 2003, what were they expecting? A pat on their back and a cigar?

    Putin should have put down the beast when he could instead; he went on the telly and started to pontificate; “the world needs Amerika”! Yeah right like it needs a hole in the head, and as it can be seen everyone is getting to have one at this rate, whether they like or not.

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