I can’t pretend not to have been disappointed by the Clackmannanshire result, especially as I am here with some wonderful people who have put months and years of their lives into campaigning heart and soul.
But the count was fascinating. Professional Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem politicians working and socialising together and dressing the same. Tory ladies in pillar box red clothes and Lib Dem councillors in Labour Party rosettes. All braying and congratulating each other in the same voices, and looking smug and very happy together.
We are not winning tonight’s battle at the moment, but the battle lines have now become clearly defined between the single establishment of the media and all the political parties, and almost half the people – so far who want an alternative political structure. This is a stage in a process, and in its clarity and scale a major advance.
The ‘endless questions’ about the EU and currency are all in your head ‘Lesley’, you should spare yourself any distress. There was and is no mechanism by which EU citizens ever stop being EU citizens. We could have had and will have still any currency option that suits. This affair is not finished for this week, far less for this or that generation. You are dishonest, disingenuous and pernicious and if anything concerning this site is a problem, it has been the interference run by you and your ilk, automatons clearly devoid of so much as a shred of humanity. One of the roughly 5% of the population who are born psychopaths.
Daniel,
Westminster would never have relied on their manipulation of the media etc to influence the vote. Their need to retain Scotland was too great.
The Scottish people should have understood this desperation and plugged all holes.
Exit polls should have been carried out. It’s quite extraordinary that no media outlet did one. The opinion polls didn’t reflect views on the ground and may have been manipulated to conform with the rigged result.
The postal votes should have been counted separately to check that they conformed with the results from the ballot boxes.
Daniel,
I wasnt talking about Scotland.
The ‘we’ll get there’ and something new blossoming is a much wider movement..UK and beyond.
Daniel: I for one, don’t understand how the Scots could have possibly fallen for the establishment propaganda.
I don’t think the people did “fall for the establishment propaganda”. Almost all the NO campaign’s arguments were horribly counter-productive and, if anything, probably only increased the YES vote as many of the YES campaigners were saying it would, including here on this blog where news that Cameron, Miliband and Clegg were going to Scotland was met with hoots of derision and declarations that this will only sway the undecideds in favour of independence.
If we all agree that the NO campaign was appalling and self-damaging then we need another explanation of why the majority of people voted NO and I humbly submit that they did so because that is the result that they wanted. Why not respect their decision?
Tony M
Thanks for your reply. Mostly silly talk – and foolish for your cause. The Spanish PM wouldn’t agree with a word that you have written. Nor Junker. And as for currency, you continue the failed answers. I do not exult in your defeat. I merely expected it.
The thought that devolution will only be for some but not others here in England will be part of the debate over new powers.
At the heart of any devolution to our councils and regions should be the voter and its control over these regions.
Now if Nigel Farrage wanted to put the cat amongst the pigeons and propose that people in England will get a choice of voting systems, including fairer PR systems, then that would further galvanise the debate.
To give wasting councils more powers and money to waste,i.e. see Norfolks incinerator debacle and Coltishall aquisition, would be the worst of all options.
Until people believe what the Establishment and their henchmen, the security services, are capable of, they can’t move forward.
Exit polls should have been carried out. It’s quite extraordinary that no media outlet did one. The opinion polls didn’t reflect views on the ground and may have been manipulated to conform with the rigged result.
If exit polls had been conducted then what would you have said if the polls came up “NO”?
I’ll answer the question for you, you would have said the exit polls were rigged, and then the band wagon would have claimed that the exit polls influenced voting throughout the day.
How do I know that? Because you were already claiming the vote was rigged when the first two results were declared.
Westminster would never have relied on their manipulation of the media etc to influence the vote. Their need to retain Scotland was too great.
The Scottish people should have understood this desperation and plugged all holes.
Too late. Move on. Hard.
Until people believe what the Establishment and their henchmen, the security services, are capable of, they can’t move forward.
You don’t. So you can.
S**t. You do. So you can…
And when the Scottish NHS is privatised and the water as well, when bus passes become extinct and tuition fees kick in, prescription charges etc…it is the young and the poor who will suffer, the sick and disabled and future generations who will have to deal with the wmd’s and nuclear missiles held in our country.
The dogs will be ket loose on Scotland, it wont take long, stand up no voters and be counted!
Disgraceful anyone who did vote no, selfishness and greed won the day, the devil will be very happy.
What are the chances of vote rigging? Quite high if a single shot from sky news can clearly show it. http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/YesinNo.jpg
Seems to be films of vote rigging and the police been called, a recount? That would be the least we could expect.
Fearmongering MSM won the day. They brought out the pensioner-vote. At least we know more about the political elite now than we did before. All in it together. A good day for the Neocons, GCHQ, and the very dangerous BBC.
Democracy is a broken system. People have been beaten into submission a long time ago. In the economic sphere the redistribution of wealth through salaries is also broken. People are weak and scared. This is a very sad day for Scotland, for the people of the UK, for Europe…
Craig was right mostly, but his generous heart and courage is a minority condition.
The Tories are now predictably seeking to capitalise on the narrow failure of the Scottish independence campaign to gain majority support by pressing to exclude Scots MPs from voting on issues which “only affect England”. This is a nonsense, since Scottish voters also pay the taxes which finance measures introduced for people south of the border. But clearly the Tories stand to benefit if they can exclude a sizeable tranche of potentially hostile MPs from voting on their next set of proposals to fleece and disempower the public, and enrich their City friends.
One way to oppose this manoeuvre is to argue that, by the same logic, only working-class MPs should be allowed to vote on legislation which only affects working-class people’s trade unions, benefits and social housing. And how about excluding all the many MPs with directorships or shares in private health care companies from votes on the NHS?
It’s highly ironic that those who have been arguing that we are “better together” will now be pushing for a deeply divisive political innovation. Let’s hope that this contradiction is not lost on voters on both sides of the border.
I believe they’ll be minor incidences of vote rigging to divert attention from the massive fraud in the postal vote. A recount wouldn’t reveal the manipulation of the postal votes, which should have been counted separately to check they sychronised with the polling station votes.
Ангрысоба,
‘If exit polls had been conducted then what would you have said if the polls came up “NO”?
I’ll answer the question for you, you would have said the exit polls were rigged,…’
If you ask a question, it’s better to leave the person you directed the question to to give the answer. Otherwise you might be found to be biased.
PS I would not have said the exit polls were rigged
As a Scot (4 Scottish grandparents, and one if whom was a clan chieftain), albeit living down south, and without a vote, I genuinely believe that the No vote was the best outcome for the people of Scotland, as well as the people of the Uk.
The “parable of the broken window” (see wikipedia) shows why – the enormous costs would have detracted from the resource available for health, education etc. The democratic deficit problem applies equally at all scales. Many of the reasons for the yes campaign were motivated by a dislike if Westminster politics that the rest of the Uk citizens share – I think that the Scottish people and the English / Irish / Welsh people are better together, and we can all take on the establishment.
But, please keep fighting for the same issues, within the uk. We (down south) don’t want trident any more than you do. We also want our civil liberties back. We also want to fix the environment, and improve education. And though we would have been very sad to see Scotland leave, we do draw hope from the huge political engagement that occurred. Let’s turn this energy to continuing reform from within.
Well, just maybe, federalism is still a possibility. Encouraging.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/18/scottish-independence-northern-newspapers_n_5847082.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
“Jeremy Clifford, editor of The Yorkshire Post, said: “The debate over the referendum in Scotland has opened up a much wider call for increased powers for the regions.
“We are joining with newspaper titles across the North to ensure this vitally important part of England does not lose out in the aftermath of the Scotland decision.”
How do I make a tinfoil Tam O’Shanter so I can join in the conspiracies you muppets are peddling?
There was an exit poll – by You Gov which came out at 55% No.
You lost, get over it. Do we still send the cash to the same place as before?
Andrew: What are the chances of vote rigging? Quite high if a single shot from sky news can clearly show it.
That picture supposedly came from Clackmannanshire, so what about the curious incident of the dog in the night-time? Namely the writer of this very blog who was a watchdog there…
Craig Murray: I shall be at the Clackmannanshire count invigilating.
However, it looks like this was simply a way in which votes were placed before counting as something similar happened in Dundee according to the YES campaign:
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/512752711083638784/photo/1
PS I would not have said the exit polls were rigged
So, what is your evidence that the referendum was rigged?
Nick
Acres of BacoFoil around here if you need any.
___________________
Angrysoba
“So, what is your evidence that the referendum was rigged?”
It has to have been because she didn’t get the result she was hoping for and can’t accept it.
“It has to have been because she didn’t get the result she was hoping for and can’t accept it.”
Deeper in denial than an Egyptian scuba diver.
Craig the smoking gun we need to see. It is very important, and MUST be shared.
Please look everyone and get it out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJif7vISQg&app=desktop
YOU CAN TAKE OUR FREEDOM, BUT YOU’LL NEVER TAKE OUR BENEFITS !!!!!
Unbelievable! A chance to break away from the capitalist warmongers that’s the whole of the UK political establishment, LOST. The UK gov and its propaganda arm the BBC are at the root of this tragedy. I’m especially saddened for young Scots people because this wonderful opportunity for restructuring the power base was falsely portrayed as economic doom and disaster by the underhanded self-interested forces that rule the UK.. a sad shadow of the country I left nearly 3 decades ago. What hope for an end to the progressive slide into corporatocracy and fascism?
Were we all foolish to even hope?
Commisserations. What a diappointment!
Here’s the voice of the 55%.
But what about the 45% who have shown they are immune to wall-to-wall propaganda?
Any good collie can herd sheep with fear.
Goats are too smart, have self-respect and will scatter then regroup.
Interesting times ahead.
My money’s on the goats!
…
May the rains sweep gentle across your fields,
May the sun warm your land,
May every good seed you have planted bear fruit,
And late summer find you standing in fields of plenty.