What Did You Expect? 693

I have no sympathy at all for anybody who voted No on the grounds of the pledges by Brown, Miliband, Cameron and Clegg about constitutional change, and is now whingeing about the blatant dishonour of those pledges. I cannot understand how anybody could be so stupid as to have believed them, and yet have a brain capable of sparking respiration.

Labour is interested in losing no influence of Scottish Labour MPs on any UK or English matters. It wants greater powers to English metropolitan councils which are controlled by Labour – because that will give Labour careerists more jobs and access to contracts. Those are Labours “constitutional reform” goals. The Conservatives “constitutional reform” goals are to keep Scotland’s tax on oil revenues and tax on whisky coming to Westminster, while loading greater responsibilities but no more money on the Scottish parliament, and stopping Scottish MPs voting on English matters thus guaranteeing conservative apparatchiks continued jobs and access to contracts.

Both Tories and Labour want to keep the appalling corrupt and undemocratic House of Lords for its jobs for apparatchiks, access to contracts etc.

Nobody cares what the Lib Dems think anyway.

I ask again – what did you expect?

This is the collective wisdom of Andy Myles and myself, over an excellent mackerel breakfast at Nom De Plume.

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693 thoughts on “What Did You Expect?

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  • Ishmael

    ” so many good songs… and then what.”

    Ahh it’s just background motivation for me. Didn’t Churchill say “what are we fighting for” vs’a’v art and stuff.

    Never dragged his name up before btw. I’m sure it was just propaganda for him personally. And I’m obviously not meaning fighting in that context. Declaimer, disclaimer, declaimer, Etc….

  • Tony M

    Inverclyde was a Yes win though, was it not, though very close. Do you remember the shoogly iron bridge at Bogle St, near Greenock Central, I think it’s gone now, where you had to jump over the yawning gaps in the bridge deck?

  • Ben E. Geserit Muad'Dib Further Confounding Gender Speculators

    This was promo’d for weeks prior to air, so out of curiosity I watched. The guy claims CIA offered him $5 million to complete the op on Awlaki. He is the only credible source for their intel and the completion was met by duplicity as one would expect. They denied the offer and he went public.

    Now this guy may be Eric Hoeffers True Believer, but he is a metaphor for why we lose in any dealings with the growing number of people willing to lay down their lives for a principle. The US cannot be trusted in any circumstance.


  • Ben E. Geserit Muad'Dib Further Confounding Gender Speculators

    Since about that time, war had been literally continuous, though strictly speaking it had not always been the same war. For several months during his childhood there had been confused street fighting in London itself, some of which he remembered vividly. But to trace out the history of the whole period, to say who was fighting whom at any given moment, would have been utterly impossible, since no written record, and no spoken word, ever made mention of any other alignment than the existing one. At this moment, for example, in 1984 (if it was 1984), Oceania was at war with Eurasia and in alliance with Eastasia. In no public or private utterance was it ever admitted that the three powers had at any time been grouped along different lines. Actually, as Winston well knew, it was only four years since Oceania had been at war with Eastasia and in alliance with Eurasia. But that was merely a piece of furtive knowledge, which he happened to possess because his memory was not satisfactorily under control. Officially the change of partners had never happened. Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia. The enemy of the moment always represented absolute evil, and it followed that any past or future agreement with him was impossible. (1.3.16)

    For as long as Winston can recall, Oceania has been in a constant state of war – with whom it was at war is of neither importance nor consequence.

  • BrianFujisan

    The first worry that entered my head..was when Craig pointed out how many areas are run, contorlled by Labour die hards / careerists…

    I have played Football with the Mcabe Clan…( Leader of Inverclyde Council ) They were Crap.. But we were Street Footballers = Skill…

    Craig was Correct in his fears… But he Will be moving to Scotland This thing aint over ….I’m on a ferry on Friday to Try find out WTF happened in the Western Isles… Its Unheard of Just Not Possible….Will keep yas posted… Nice to see the Musical interludes Back.. Ben’s Baby / area


  • Ishmael


    Good thinking. I think given some time and investigation. A better picture of reality will emerge.

    Nice drumming.

  • Jives

    Is it just me or has anyone else noticed?..

    Tony Blair,as ‘Middle East Peacy Envoy’ only ever pops up to call for more war and bombing when its Syria,Libya,Iraq,Iran etc…

    You never hear a peep from him when Gaza’s being bombed to smithereens.

    Why is that?

  • Tony M

    Failed to comment over on wings, just disappears into a void, as usual, no comment I have ever made there in the last year or more has ever appeared on their pages, I would guess for every convert they have made there, they have lost just as many who are pissed off with the broken-ness of the site. Or the Control-freakery of the mods.


    Hang on a second Morag, you’re at a count in a rural location, handling few votes, in places where the Tories and LibDems have a stranglehold, where the local papers are part of Johnston Press who run the Scotsman, local papers, which hopefully will soon go to the wall and which if anything at times were probably more pro-No than the Scotsman itself, where the local papers even ran with Daily Mail and friends demonisation of the sick and disabled on benefits, where a NO majority is assured. Where fixing would serve no purpose. You might be absolutely correct there was no funny business where you were. Can you say so for other places? Can you say so for other places where the votes handled were of an order of magnitude greater than where you were? Where was this count, did you mention Kelso, is that where the Borders count was held?

  • Jives

    The Labour Party in Scotland are fucked,absolutely fucked.

    Ive no allegiance to any political party but im delighted by this.

    Talk about winning a battle but losing a war…hoist by their own petard indeed.

  • Vronsky

    Yes won in North Lanarkshire, my patch. Of course all my fans here knew we’d pull that off, despite facing up to the Orange Order.

    Problem for count invigilation is the width of the Yes movement, including many people and organisations with no previous experience of activism. The rules, not to mention simple justice, required that they have representatives at the count, but they’re not appropriately skilled or experienced. Still, enough old lags like me from the SNP around to keep an eye on things, and we saw nothing untoward. All stories of ‘fraud’ third hand at best and not coming from SNP workers, and they’re the folk who’d know.

    I’m not saying there wasn’t fraud, just that I personally saw no evidence of it and heard no reports of it from what I’d consider credible sources.

    There are several phony videos going around. Problems with them should be obvious to this readership, e.g. basic stuff: why would you video fraudulent counting but not draw it to the attention of the Returning Officer?

  • Ishmael

    Bombing has obversely no connection to morality for him. It’s just whatever gang he happens to be with.

    He’s a member of the chief gang of thugs, the “masters of war” (quote from Dirty Wars) Spineless and cowardly, egging on the thugs from well behind any action.

    I remember guys like him at school. Some of them got some payback you can be sure. Though obviously brutality is not something we should expect from any adults. And imo the primery reason we do see it in schools. Trickle down.

    It’s our ‘system’ or the ‘process’. Some even call it Democracy.

  • Tony M

    Vronsky: I would say things would not be noticed when filming them, only on playback later would some things become apparent. The videos around, the woman with the stacks swapped over and the guy apparently writing, the Yes on a No table aren’t conclusive of anything and the explanations given are credible, these were pretty much debunked within hours on Friday morning, as pretty innocuous, but these alone are not the basis of suspicions, the probability that it was somehow is high, the stakes were too high for Westminster to permit it. I do not see that one person at one untypical count in the back of beyond, can say so stridently with utter certainty, and attack those doubting, that as she seen nothing where she was, everything everywhere else was just fine.

  • Tony M

    I have my answer now, it is the control-freakery of the mods, so it is just an echo chamber of claquers, better they write their own comments themselves.

  • Jives

    Tony M,

    Yep i think youre correct.

    The biggest mistake the SNP will make is getting high on their own new supply.

    i.e. assuming the influx of new members are in line with SNP policy rather than a bloc of tactical entryists.

  • Ishmael

    Seems good to investigate, if nothing else it gives a lot more people a better idea of the system so next time? they will be more careful and wise to any possible gaps in it’s authenticity. And find out demographics etc, so could be very important.

    But I also think people need to be cautious to the amount of energy that’s going into this. And not make it about looking for the easy win.

    It’s very easy to get to deep in a negative mindset that becomes the picture your presenting to many people your trying to win over. Ie ‘these ‘nationalists’ are all about conspiracy theories and can’t take ‘loss’ etc etc etc.

  • Jives

    If there was fraud id imagine it would be on a much grander scale and not in an actual counting hall.

    I remember in Peter Wright’s Spycatcher MI5 somehow lucked into the cabinet files of the GB Communist Party in the 50’s and went to great lengths over a few nights with a specially designed speed photography method of late night copying of all the files and names.

    The spooks do seem to like a bit of derring-do…a grsnd mission.

    Was the A9 not shut for a few hours on Thursday njght due to an accident ?

    Fire alarms in Dundee you say?

    How easy would it be to break into a warehouse containing postal ballot boxes and swap whole boxes,identical to the originals?

    This is the preferred scale of operation id imagine not penny ante stuff like the odd pile of voting cards here or there in public gaze?

    Who can say though eh?

  • Tony M

    Personal independence means remaining aloof of any political party. The nearest I ever came was an enquiry to join the Labour Party Young Socilaists (LPYS) from a leaflet picked up at some demo in Glasgow, several years before the poll tax was introduced, mid-80s. I got a very nice long handwritten letter back from a Mr T Sheridan, with a form to send with the fee of about £5 or £6 to Labour proper at an address in Walworth Rd London. Before I could get around to sending it, the LPYS was disbanded, too left wing for cia plant since 1970 Neil Kinnock.

  • Ishmael

    “This is the preferred scale of operation id imagine not penny ante stuff like the odd pile of voting cards here or there in public gaze?”

    For sure, but there could be political reasons for making deliberate minor ‘issues’….In the public gaze. It could deflect a lot of energy. But it could also backfire because people are now looking very closely at the system and the process.

    If there was another try soon it would surely be better equipped.

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