Honoured to give the keynote speech at Amnesty’s conference on torture in London yesterday. Then dashed back to Edinburgh for a very romantic evening with Nadira – and Cameron!
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@Clark: You may remember that “the Soviet Threat” was propagated with great gusto in the early 80s… and nobody much bought it.
Then Galteri came along!
“Protect and Survive!….” the Dubliners:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2UpM8Ci_ao
Peacewisher, I suppose the point of my comment is that I dislike the dumbing-down effect the “schizophrenic Russia” meme is having upon debate. There are things that just can’t be said in the current climate on this blog without several other commenters accusing one of “risking nuclear war”. It’s utterly out of proportion (irrational), but very convenient for the Kremlin.
Jumpin’ Jack Flash, He’s a Gas
11 Mar, 2015 – 11:05 pm:
“Not really, RobG.
Mutual assured destruction kept the peace in Europe for over 50 years.”
____________________
Incorrect. What has kept the peace in Europe is what’s now known as the European Union (EU).
What is correct is that there has been constant war since the end of WW2.
Maybe you can tell me why 54,000 Americans and God knows how many Vietnamese died in the Vietnam war? I can tell you that this slaughter was fought on what Pentagon planners called ‘the domino theory’. Ie, if one state in south east Asia fell to communism, then all the rest would.
America lost the Vietnam war. Vietnam briefly became a communist state. There was no domino effect in south east Asia.
I wouldn’t put the Pentagon in charge of running a car park, then or now. The only thing thay are good at is mass slaughter, which includes their own people.
Craig Murray,
Please Start a New Topic..otherwise..well Even Dreolin..who used to and maybe still does volunteer her time to Amnesty International …will Kick Back..as I suspect All The Wonderful Volunteers Who Work For Amnesty International Have done Over All These Years..And Kick Out The CIA and Other Really Nasty Forces Who Took Over The Management Of Amnesty International About 10-15 Years Ago..
Just Get Rid Of The Slugs At The Top..Fight Them Embarrass Them Any Way You Can..Take YOUR Organisation Back.
Amnesty International..Should Be Exactly What It Says On The Tin.
Tony
@Clark: I was never convinced of the arguments about evil Russians wanting to invade us in the 1980s, and I’m even less likely to be convinced now.
I think yougov had a recent poll that showed that [thanks to our media…?] 75% are now scared of a Russian threat. I’m pleased to be part of the 25%.
“Maybe you can tell me why 54,000 Americans and God knows how many Vietnamese died in the Vietnam war?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuUBCF3KKxc
There has indeed been ongoing war (some would rather say wars, plural) since WWII, so it seems difficult to credit nuclear weapons with keeping the peace.
I suppose nukes may have discouraged escalation to world war.
The one hopeful indication from nuclear weapons is that since the WWII, none have been used in combat. I think it is the first time in human history that a decisive weapon has been invented but the powers possessing them have exercised restraint. This must indicate some degree of sanity at the top of the power structures – so far.
At least we can say that nukes have so far prevented the use of nukes. So not a lot to be proud of there, and nothing at all if they ever are used.
Clark
11 Mar, 2015 – 11:29 pm:
“Peacewisher, I suppose the point of my comment is that I dislike the dumbing-down effect the “schizophrenic Russia” meme is having upon debate. There are things that just can’t be said in the current climate on this blog without several other commenters accusing one of “risking nuclear war”. It’s utterly out of proportion (irrational), but very convenient for the Kremlin.”
___________________________
Clark, you’re a nice chap, and I like you, but I do have a hard time understanding the disconnect you seem to have with nuclear war.
Roughly speaking, the USA and Russia each have about 7000 nuclear warheads that are ready to launch (on hair trigger alert). These missiles contain enough megatons to wipe out all life on Earth at least ten times over.
So I suppose that leaves us with just two questions:
1) Do you honestly think that the people who control these weapons are even remotely sane?
2) If you accept the proposition that they are all completely fecking mad, is it really a good idea to promote a crisis such as that in the Ukraine?
People like me are not pro-Putin propagandists (we’re all quite realistic about Putin). We just want to be able to wake-up tomorrow morning.
It’s a very human response to a totally insane situation.
@Fred. Errr… Duh!!!!
Well, who did benefit from Vietnam?
Ah yes, the arms industry.
Peacewisher, the ramping up of the “Russian threat” to the UK (“Russian bombers off coast of Cornwall” etc) by the mass media is typical propagandistic nonsense.
However, Russian threat to its neighbours could easily be as real as US threat in the Middle East or South America.
“Roughly speaking, the USA and Russia each have about 7000 nuclear warheads that are ready to launch (on hair trigger alert). These missiles contain enough megatons to wipe out all life on Earth at least ten times over.”
Film at eleven.
I’m sure some of us can remember the establishment reckoning after Country Joe and the Fish got them all singing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6aaaJBAv0
Backing track courtesy of Neil Young.
Peacewisher,
Be nice to Clark…He is Doing a Near Impossible Job..He Is..well I very nearly met Clark..must have been nearly 10 years ago..when I was walking up a mountain in The Lake District(a guy older than me did drop dead on the way..probably wrote it here)..and I came across Craig Murray’s website..didn’t say nowt ..just read it..and then..well I read Craig’s book Murder in Samarkand…but I nearly went to Norwich (know it well) to campaign with them and drop leaflets..By The Way..Half The Laser Still Works..My Lad Tried it…He Even Bought a new (second hand smoke machine)
Sure we could have projected Craig Murray in Smoke All Over Norwich (where he comes from – another secret)
But Chloe Smith Would Still Have Won..but we didn’t know that at the time did we???
I wasn’t there. I have never met any of these people. I might not even like them if I did, but I think I would..These Guys are Clever..Even If I Do Disagree With Them a Lot of The Time..
Their Heart is In The Right Place. These Guys are Full Of Love..and Want To Do Their Best.
No One can ask for more than that…
Ask Chloe Smith To Join You..I Reckon She is Gorgeous..and She has Experience of Being Blown Away By The Fascists on The BBC..That Makes The Girl Top Class in My Book. What does She Believe..what was Her Programming at University..I Reckon She is a Good Girl…Don’t Know about Craig Murray..But I Reckon He is O.K. Too…
At The End Of The Day..You Have Got To Go With The Good People..Not The Evil Fuckers..and there are a hell of a lot of them.
Tell Mary..I am Reading Her Mate’s Book…He Does Media Lens..I disagree with most of his Politics..but I think The Guy is Brill..and I Really Like His Book.
Tony
@Fred
11 Mar, 2015 – 11:49 pm
Thanks for the link, Fred; much enjoyed.
But where are Country Joe, et al, now?
We now live in a corporate controlled fascist nightmare; 1984 and all that.
RobG, I expect that nuclear war would destroy a large proportion of civilisation, and could initiate a “nuclear winter” which could have a huge effect upon climate. But Gaia would survive that.
I did one of my guestimates and it seems that the radioactive fallout from nuclear war would be very unlikely to wipe out life on Earth. Something like a quarter to a third of the quantity of warheads now existing have already been used in nuclear tests. In other words, fallout from an all-out nuclear war would be at most four times worse than existing fallout from bomb tests. Bad (lots of cancer), but not that bad. Not even a mass-extinction event.
There are a number of far worse scenarios. Complete economic collapse could leave the nuke power stations and “spent” fuel stockpiles unattended. This amounts to hundreds of times as much nuclear material than would be released in even the largest nuclear war.
I gave my opinion regarding the sanity of the powerful in my 23:52 comment – some marginal sanity seems indicated.
Regarding Ukraine, I’m critical of both the US and Russian superpowers in this matter. The US had no business influencing Ukrainian political appointments, nor escalating the tension with social media and PR-type videos. The Kremlin were wrong to bully Ukraine against its move towards the EU.
RobG, I think you can afford to relax a bit. Resident Dissident’s point about the Russian oligarch’s London-based homes and families seems valid to me. Nuking the “West” will be utterly unpopular with the oligarchs, and they set Kremlin policy.
Hi Tony
Don’t know Chloe Smith, but I’m not being generally party political… it’s not the backbench MPs that are the problem, but those who get into government positions and seem to be corrupted by the power of position… or are they corrupted along the way… or even corrupted from the start? Better to stay a backbench MP and keep those principles, as did the amazing Tam Dalyell.
@Clark: tried responding but not something I can articulate.
Here’s one from Joni Mitchell (perhaps not the track you might expect)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9VoLCO-d6U
Clark, correct me if I’m wrong but you and others still seem to think that those with ‘their finger on the button’ (as in nuclear button) are even remotely sane?!
Myself, 12:23 am correction:
…so far! But it only needs to fail once. Best to dismantle the nukes (though that really goes without saying).
Rob, I think that the non-use of nukes since 1945 indicates marginal sanity. No more than that. But it’s a hopeful sign.
And finally…. “Watching the Wheels”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dD9_9giZm4
My Lad Has just Agreed With Me…##
We are Going To Rebuild That Fence…
I think it is our Responsibility
My wife says..but you have got to leave a hole so the Foxes..can walk straight Through..and Maintain The Path…
Look are We Talking Foxes Ramblers Rights Or What???
They Can Jump Over The Plants like They used to..Are They Getting Too Fat???
And Our Cats Just Look On…thinking well we like The Frogs, The Birds,and we like dipping our Paws in The Pond..The Cats Sais We Really Liked Your Goldfish..
We Look at Them..You Fished Them Out With Your Cat’s Paws and Ate Them.
We have two of the most lovely cats in the world..they live here and are incredibly old..another 10 cat lives left him then yet. They are happy and sublimely beautiful and healthy cats (both girls actually)..The Old Toms still come round and obviously still want a bit…but just make a very horrible smell…but no effect.
But we will rebuild that Fence.
Tony
” Best to dismantle the nukes (though that really goes without saying).”
Good luck in convincing Netanyahu.
Renewable energy generation could make nuclear power obsolete – but it requires international political cooperation. Renewables have already overtaken raw nuclear generation output – so about twenty five years of investment has outstripped seventy years of development of nuclear power generation. Renewables are the clear winner. BUT…
Renewables have problems with base-load.
The solution to this is to spread the generation system widely enough. We need global high-power electricity distribution to make renewables really viable, and that means global political cooperation. And this, precisely, is the necessary feature that we do NOT see.
Sitting in my car on supermarket ferry duty, under the pillars of my local TESCO car park, I was astonished to see glass TROLL houses. I can only suppose that in the absence of Norwegian road bridges, or pubs, there must be others skiving from their social responsibilities, who sit in car parks trying to get a secure connection on their mobiles to the CM blog.
Glass houses for trolls. Who’d have thought it? I think I’ll go and browse the newspapers inside the supermarket instead.
Resident Dissident; “Do you really believe that the provocation is such that Putin will resort to bombing the children, whores, bank accounts and properties of his oligarch’s here in the UK?
Reality is that the Kiev Junta is itching to resort to nuclear war;
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/02/23/ready-for-nuclear-war-over-ukraine/
Resident Dissident; “The real question is what Merkel will do after Putin trashes her ceasefire agreement”
Reality is that Merkel is more worried about the US/UK trashing the ceasefire;
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/germany-concerned-about-aggressive-nato-stance-on-ukraine-a-1022193.html
Clark
“Renewable energy generation could make nuclear power obsolete – but it requires international political cooperation.”
Simple and correct. with the added bonus that we could dispense with the entire world’s political class who are there to make things complicated and lie to us.
Peacewisher,
Tam Dalyell was a complete Angel, but I didn’t Realise it at the Time. My Mind Was Being Programmed By Globalist Propaganda Started By Friedman and Thatcher..
All I Knew Was That They Had Bought Americans..Rather Than The Best..Which We Were in England in The North West..and The South Centred Around Manchester, London, Oldham and Bracknell
Which just happened to be Be Designing, Building, Testing and Selling..we weren’t Just Doing Prototypes..We were State of The Art (10 Years Ahead Of The Americans)..We Were in Large Scale Production..The Most Powerful Computers in The World Ever Designed Produced and Sold
Then Thatcher Bought American and Shut The North of England Down.
And Norman Tebbit Told Me To get On My Bike and So I Did.
Tony
Giyane, credit to Squonk. Squonk watches the meters; he has bookmarked pages for all the UK energy source and generation monitoring websites. We again came really close to blackouts this winter; the margin was down to a cat’s whisker.