3,629 thoughts on “Amnesty International Conference on Torture

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  • Mark Golding

    They have ‘Peacewisher’ – 17 Feb, 2015 – 12:22 pm – it is called ‘Operation Terror’ a rather naive fast forward film strip of circumstantial events from 1999 to 2001 illustrating a plot to concentrate the minds and catalyse the hearts of humans into revenge and war.

    http://www.operationterror.com/

  • Herbie

    “Macky, I do not blame Putin and Russia, but neither do I absolve them. Do I need to repeat that?”

    Just explain it.

    Doesn’t seem to make much sense.

  • Clark

    Herbie and Macky, the great powers fight, using conflicts within less powerful countries as proxies. When they are not fighting, they are exploiting lesser countries.

    Putin/Russian oligarchy exerted great influence over Ukraine, through Ukraine’s most powerful oligarch, through control of the gas supply, and by other means. This is merely the most recent Russian exploitation of Ukraine, supported for generations by Russian nationalism, and has led to great resentment of Russia by many Ukrainian people.

    Ukraine saw an opportunity to join the EU and many Ukrainians suported this. However, the NeoCon forces saw an opportunity in this and began to exploit it.

    A great protest movement formed in Ukraine called Euromaidan, but some of it was funded and encouraged by US NGOs. Conversely, opposition thugs and protests to Euromaidan were funded by Russia.

    The government of Ukraine was overthrown, technically illegally but with support of a large proportion of the Ukrainian population, but the new government included prominent representatives of Ukrainian rightwing nationalist groups. Tensions rose on the streets with opposing mobs facing each other. Suddenly, a sniper began shooting at both sides and violence escalated rapidly.

    Russia move swiftly to retain control of Crimea, instigating a referendum in too short a time for tensions to subside and providing no time for debate…

    I could go on and on, pointing out the tensions and wrongdoings by all parties, but I’m tired of typing, and I expect to be ignored and then shot by both sides, unless I agree to join one of them and fight for them.

    Macky simply hates me because I used to moderate at this site.

  • Herbie

    Nobody hates you, Clark.

    What you’re saying seems similar to assessing fault in an RTA insurance claim.

    So, how would you apportion blame for the current state of Ukraine, between the US and Russia.

    What % blame is it reasonable to ascribe to the US and what % to Russia?

  • Herbie

    Interesting discussion:

    “Logic and emotion. Language and image. Discipline and instinct. In his classic 1930 novel, Narcissus and Goldmund, Herman Hesse captures the essence of the duality of the human spirit. But while this duality is everywhere evident within us and those around us, is there a higher level of consciousness that combines both Narcissus’ and Goldmunds’ strengths? Is that the answer to the problems posed by fear, authority and tyranny? This month Tjeerd Andringa of the University of Groningen joins James for another fascinating dissection of a classic piece of literature.”

    https://www.corbettreport.com/narcissus-and-goldmund-flnwo-24/

  • Macky

    Clark; “Macky simply hates me because I used to moderate at this site”

    Don’t flatter yourself; there’s many things to criticise you for, like your reality detached Ukraine analysis, but to make it onto my hate list, you need to have the blood of innocents on your hands.

  • Republicofscotland

    Its quite interesting, as well as promising to see that 60% of Labour voters in England, would back a coalition government with the SNP, considering that, Labour are flagging in the polls behind the Tories, common sense may yet prevail.

  • Clark

    Herbie, an answer to that seems difficult to formulate. Emotionally, I’m utterly horrified by the US NeoCon enthusiasm for pouring weaponry into the Ukrainian side. I strongly suspect that Russia has been quietly doing the converse, but information is sparse, corrupted and unreliable.

    I can’t really see any point in apportioning blame unless it is to help bystanders choose which side to support – and such polarisation seems the exact opposite of what is needed on any path to peace.

    But since you’ve asked, it depends upon the time-scale one chooses to examine.

    In the long term it’s Russia’s fault, going back through successive gas cut-offs to extort changes in Ukrainian policy, back through the Soviet Union to Russian imperialism; keeping the Ukrainian people poor and exploited. This has been the origin of Ukrainian resentment against Russia and the driving force behind Ukrainian nationalism, without which there would have been much less for the NeoCon forces to exploit.

    In the short term, it’s almost entirely the NeoCon’s fault, “fuck the EU”, interfering with negotiations and manipulating Ukrainian political appointments, and probably sniping at both sides.

  • Republicofscotland

    No sooner had the International Monetary Fund (IMF) extended $17.5 billion over four years in new credit to Ukraine, Russia’s private gas giant Gazprom was claiming $2.4 billion of it to settle Kiev’s gas debt.

    That’s not exactly what the IMF had in mind. The international lender’s mission chief for Ukraine, Nikolay Gueorguiev, issued a statement on Feb. 13 saying the credit was meant to address immediate macroeconomic stabilization as well as broad and deep structural reforms to provide the basis for strong and sustainable economic growth over the medium term.

    At the same time, Gazprom sent a letter to its Ukrainian counterpart, state-owned Naftogaz, seeking a payment of more than $2.4 billion, to cover $2.2 billion in debt, plus a penalty fee of about $200 million. The debt, which Kiev doesn’t acknowledge, will be the subject of hearings at the Stockholm Arbitration Institute in early 2016

    http://marketdailynews.com/2015/02/16/as-imf-extends-17-5-billion-credit-to-kiev-gazprom-demands-debt-repayment/
    …………………………..

    Now that’s what I call a gas bill.

  • Herbie

    That’s much better, Clark.

    Takes a complex matter and brings clarity and focus to the issues, the past the present and so on.

    Break the cycle, eh.

  • Republicofscotland

    Britain should consider putting troops on the ground in Libya, the former head of MI6 has suggested in the wake of the beheading of 21 Coptic Christians by Isil.

    Sir John Sawers said that Libya has descended into growing chaos since Britain joined the US and its allies in bringing down Col Muammar Gaddafi’s regime.

    He said that in the absence of Coalition ground forces “those with weapons” have taken over the country, leaving the country open to be “exploited by fanatics

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11416676/Britain-should-consider-putting-troops-on-ground-in-Libya-ex-MI6-chief-says.html
    ……………………………..

    Is Sawyer’s having a laugh, he knows fine well why Libya is a civil war zone, because WE were among the allies that made it that way.

    Now Sawyers, wants troops to go back into Libya and reek more havoc, Habbs old boss is a bigger d*ck than he is.

  • John Goss

    “Conversely, opposition thugs and protests to Euromaidan were funded by Russia.”

    I doubt you have the slightest evidence of this Clark. There are thousands of Russians and Ukrainians of Russian extraction living in Ukraine. What need did Russia have to intervene? Unfortunately after the western-funded coup that brought an unelected fascist government to power it drove a great wedge between Russian Ukrainians who live mostly, but not entirely in the eastern part of Ukraine, and those who support the fascist warmongers. More than 5000 Ukrainians (including many women and children) have been killed. Poroshenko has referred to these inhabitants as vermin, or some such reference, but they are the workers. They really hate Kiev now, with a hate that will last up to thirty years. It’s not a case of taking sides. In this conflict, as in the Israeli bombing of Palestine, it is as clear-cut as Waterford Crystal who the aggressors are and who are fighting for their homes and lives. It is black and white. That you cannot see it suggests that you have not read enough about it.

    Re: the twin towers. You’re an intelligent man. Take a look at this photograph. Bear in mind that storeys of the buildings which fell into their footprints were not on fire and would have caused a debris barrier against the burning planes what geat thermal event caused this melting of rocks. When you’ve dealt with that ask yourself why some 2000 engineers and architects are not satisfied with the official version. That’s a lot of engineers and architects.

    http://themillenniumreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2j1k8wi.jpg

  • Republicofscotland

    Italy says it may ponder military action in Libya after the release of a recent video of mass beheading by ISIL Takfiris in the North African country showed that militants are closer than ever to the Italian shores.

    The President of Italian Senate Defense Commission Nicola Latorre said Monday that if the current diplomatic efforts at the international level fail to establish security in Libya, Italy’s military may ponder “measures of containment.”

    However, the Italian lawmaker, who was speaking to the Associated Press, ruled out the possibility that Italy may become involved in a “war” on ISIL in the North African country.

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/02/16/397865/Italy-mulls-Libya-military-intervention
    ………………………………

    Look what you’ve stared Sawyers, now Italy has delusions of grandeur, about old empires, just like the United Queendom.

  • Republicofscotland

    Whitehall departments made losses of £5.1billion last year through errors, fees and buying unused equipment – including £6 million spent by the Ministry of Defence on earplugs found to be not fit for purpose, according to a new report.

    More than half of the losses have been attributed to the MoD, where a total of £3.1bn was lost including £7.2m spent on mine detection capabilities for Warrior vehicles which were also found unsuitable and a further £4m following the early withdrawal from service of Sea King helicopters, the Taxpayers’ Alliance report has claimed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/how-whitehall-departments-lost-51bn-last-year–including-6m-spent-by-the-mod-on-earplugs-which-were-not-fit-for-purpose-10049100.html
    ………………………………

    The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum, and guess what we’re paying for it.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Phil

    “Habbakuk
    “Quotes and references, please.”

    Oh OK. So you do not defend “state violence that results in uncountable deaths and endless misery”? That is excellent news.”
    _______________

    Is your answer a retraction of your charge that I “defend state violence..etc..”). If so, kindly say so, clearly and unequivocally.

    If not, please provide quotes and references as already requested.

    Thank you.

  • Republicofscotland

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2955919/I-probably-shouldn-t-advocating-Video-young-George-Osborne-advising-voters-dodge-taxes-unearthed.html

    A video of a young George Osborne advising voters how to use clever financial products to avoid taxes has been unearthed.

    In the clip, recorded on BBC’s Daily Politics in 2003, Mr Osborne smirks as he advises a caller to the show how to cut inheritance tax bills and avoid paying for old age care.
    …………………………….

    Well well well, the Chancer of the Exchequer, advising people, on how to tax dodge, no doubt Gideon has advised his rich buddies, on how to screw the system, and the honest taxpayers are left to carry the can, or so to speak.

  • Herbie

    Yeah, but overall John, doesn’t Clark’s assessment give everyone a basis for moving forward.

    His last post is a reasonable overall assessment, even if there are details with which you disagree.

  • Clark

    Herbie:

    “Break the cycle, eh”

    I hope so. All those people, families, all the deaths and injuries and livelihoods destroyed.

    To break the cycle some things need to change.

    First, the mass-media. Nearly all the mass-media has escalated anger and tension by exaggerating the wrongdoing of its chosen enemy while remaining silent about the wrongdoing of its chosen allies.

    Second, so-called democracy. The US and Russia have acted supposedly under the mandate of their electorates, but interference in other countries’ politics has not been declared in the relevant political manifestos. Democracy works to some extent within a country’s borders but national democracy is ineffective for controlling foreign policy.

    Third, covert operations. Can anyone show me the vote by the US government that initiated the US policies in Ukraine? I am unaware of any such debate or vote, but someone, somewhere decided to pursue these policies – diplomatic staff, NGOs and corporations acted in coordination, so who was (and is) coordinating?

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Phil

    By the way, in your haste to divert you forgot to answer my original question, which was:

    “Where do you stand on the wearing of masks at demonstrations, Phil, and what are your thoughts on “casseurs” attaching themselves to perfectly legal and peaceful demonstrations? Would you turn a blind eye?”

    Care to do so now, Phil? Don’t be shy.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Mary

    “It just seems odd looking back that we were told very clealy that there were 3 suspects involved in the CH murders, if 2 were killed and the third (Hamid Mourad) had a cast iron alibi – then who was the 3rd man and why is no-one talking about this?”
    ___________________

    Mary, you appear to misunderstand the meaning of the word “suspect”.

    Let us say that a burglary has taken place. The police suspect three people but, after investigation, it turns out that one of them had nothing to do with the burglary. That leaves two suspects. Three minus one equals two, I believe.

    What is it you can’t understand?

  • Republicofscotland

    Canada has formally opposed Palestinian attempts to join 15 different United Nations treaties and conventions — a position that puts the federal government on the wrong side of history and at odds with its citizenry, the Palestinian envoy in Ottawa says.

    Canada is objecting in writing to the UN because it maintains Palestine is not a legal state. The Palestinians have formally replied to Canada’s objections in writing, issuing a pointed reminder that they won non-member observer status in November 2012 at the UN General Assembly.

    The dispute has sparked the most scathing Palestinian criticism to date of the Harper government’s unwavering support of Israel

    http://www.570news.com/2015/02/16/canada-opposes-15-palestinian-attempts-to-join-united-nations-treaties/
    ……………………………………

    Is anybody surprised by Harper and Canada’s actions, Harper is a similar obedient serf, in the mould of Abbot of Australia, both are minions of the United Queendom, and Zionist Israel.

  • Clark

    John Goss, regarding the bedrock beneath the WTC complex, you need to look at the following pdf, linked earlier by Fred near the top of this page of comments:

    https://dspace.sunyconnect.suny.edu/bitstream/handle/1951/47900/moss-09.pdf;jsessionid=64B2057AFAB510006150A4647DE19649.suny_101?sequence=1

    WTC1 and WTC2 did not “fall into their own footprints”; much of the debris fell outside the footprints as would be expected from such top-down collapses:

    https://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/ground_zero_arial2_ort.jpg

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Mr Scorgie

    “Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)
    16 Feb, 2015 – 10:36 pm

    “I sincerely hope that the next govt will pass legislation forbidding the wearing of masks at demonstrations. This will help the authorities to more easily apprehend the small but significant fringe of trouble-makers which always attaches itself to demonstrations.”
    ……………………………………………………………………………….

    Not likely Habbabkuk. The faces of under-cover police agent-provocateurs might get recognised.”
    __________________

    Mr Scorgie – if you approve of small fringe groups attaching themselves to respectable demonstrations with the aim of engaging in general mayhem and thereby bringing those demonstrations into disrepute, why don’t you just come out and say so rather than attempting to divert?

    You would lose nothing by coming clean because you must be aware that your presence on this blog is already known.

  • Herbie

    You’re absolutely correct, Clark.

    Our problem isn’t primarily peeps and their attitudes.

    It’s those who would manipulate them.

    If we’d all focus our anger on elites and their mouthpieces we’d all be much better off.

  • Clark

    John Goss, I strongly suspect that you’ve only been examining one side of the evidence regarding Ukraine. It may not be deliberate on your part; you may have got stuck in an Internet search engine “filter bubble”, where new results are returned based upon which previous result links you spent most time at.

    Paid Russian thugs in Ukraine:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky

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