The UK Hits Moral Rock Bottom 170


I return from summer break with a shock as the UK hits moral rock bottom. On the day that it is revealed that 2,380 people in three years died within 14 days of being declared fit to work by an ATOS assessment and having benefit stopped, we also have 45 of the most appalling members of the political class elevated to trough it for life in the House of Lords, at a possible cost to the taxpayer of 67,500 pounds per week in attendance allowances alone.

It is worth remembering that it was the Red Tories who brought in ATOS, and Yvette Cooper, to be precise, who ordered the extreme tightening of the unfit to work assessment which has resulted in death for thousands and dreadful stress and misery for hundreds of thousands. Ian Duncan Smith may have also gleefully implemented it, but this particular horror was entirely inherited from the Guardian’s favourite leadership candidate.

The House of Lords appointments are so horrible it is difficult to comment. The most utterly objectionable of all is one of the least known to the public. Stuart Polak becomes a Lord for services to the Conservative Friends of Israel. That you can, unelected, become a legislator of the UK based on your loyalty and service to another state is appalling.

Others are more obviously dreadful. Lord Hogg now has a title that befits the moat of his home, which he had cleaned by the taxpayer prompting much rage in the expenses scandal. Tessa Jowell benefited from hundreds of thousands of pounds of corrupt money from the sordid Berlusconi, claiming she did not read the mortgage documents in which his cash paid off her house, before she signed them, and going through an entirely risible pretence of temporary separation from her husband, David Mills, who escaped a corrupt Italian justice system. David Willetts was rejected by his constituents because of extreme expenses scamming, and walks grinning back into the Lords.

Michelle Mone is rewarded for her opposition to Scottish independence. The woman sold out the workforce who made her fortune by expensively covering her crotch and now comes out as a Tory knicker saleswoman. Darling also is ennobled for services to the union, after being too cowardly to face the electorate in May. The Lib Dems get more legislators today than they could manage at the general election. That is simply astonishing.

The conduct of the political class is utterly shameless. Meantime they indulge their fantasies of stripping workers of all protection and of stopping aid to the needy, and while the politicians gorge and gorge, the poor are quietly being slipped away to die.


170 thoughts on “The UK Hits Moral Rock Bottom

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  • Macky

    @Suhayl Saadi, So my comment was a “sweeping statement” that had “an element (of truth)” ! Hardly surprising given that you also then needed to ask “What’s a “real religious person”?”.

    A religious person is not somebody who is born into a Faith, just attends religious ceremonies, like Weddings, Funerals, Easter/ Ramadan etc, , calls themselves Christian, Muslim, etc, yet does not follow & respect the tenets of his religion; that is merely playing societal/community lip-service towards having a conforming respectable religion; rather a real religious person has absolute faith in their religion, which is the fundamental principle/requirement of any religion, they have to believe in it, and live their lives accordingly. A central tenet of some religions, especially both Christianity & Islam, is that our earthly existence is not just a very short temporary preparation for everlasting spiritual life, but also a purifying one, in which our conduct, especially iro our own Faith, affects our the future well-being of our spiritual life.

    To such a person, the belief in the everlasting spiritual life is by almost self-definition, the most paramount consideration, which will always come before man-made considerations like laws, patriotism, or even personal considerations like family or one owns life. This is why for example the early Christian martyrs endured the most sadistic of torturous deaths, rather than betray their Faith with a simple pronunciation of betrayal, for they believed that they would be damning their souls to eternal damnation. This hold true for all major religions throughout the ages, yes even now, the true believer will always place priority to their Faith over anything else.

    BTW your citation of the “Give Unto Caesar’” quote, is simply the shallow common misinterpretation of it. This response that Jesus gave to evade answering a loaded trick question, is accepted by the Church itself to mean the opposite of what you suggest, as it inconceivable to that Jesus would teach that some spheres of human activity lie outside the authority of God; the message being that if you should give to Caesar that which has his image, then you should give to God that which has God’s image, ie yourself.

  • Mary

    I have just heard Peter Oborne on Any Questions approving of the peerages for Blunkett and Darling. Something about them having done sterling work for their country!!

    Reminder.

    Blunkett, thuggish. Sending tanks to Heathrow http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2758753.stm

    and much more on Wikipedia.

    ‘At the start of the Labour government’s second term in 2001, Blunkett was promoted to Home Secretary,[20] fulfilling an ambition of his. Observers saw him as future Prime Minister, and a rival to Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown’s hopes to succeed Blair.[28][29]

    Blunkett was almost immediately faced with September 11 attacks on the USA. He brought in new anti-terrorism measures, including detention without trial of suspect foreign nationals who couldn’t be extradited or deported. It caused a backbench rebellion and provoked strong opposition in the House of Lords, and Blunkett made concessions over incitement to religious hatred (later carried through by his successor) and to introduce a “sunset clause”.[30][31]

    As Home Secretary he was prepared to confront the judiciary and the police, with proposals for civilian community patrols and changes to police officers’ pay and working conditions. More than 7,000 police demonstrated outside Parliament in 2002.

    Also during his term in office the massive upsurge in asylum claims was reversed, the Sangatte refugee camp on French soil was closed, and refugees numbers subsequently dropped from 110,000 to less than 30,000. With an additional 15,000 police officers and 6,500 Community Support Officers by 2004, crime had reached an all-time low with over a 40% drop from ten years earlier.[32]

    A controversial area for Blunkett was civil liberties, and he described civil libertarianism as “airy fairy”.[33] As Education Secretary, he had repeatedly expressed the intention that, were he to become Home Secretary, he would make the then-incumbent Jack Straw, who had been criticised for being hard-line, seem overly liberal. In 2006, Martin Narey, the former director general of the prison service, claimed that Blunkett had once told him to use the army and machine guns, to deal with rioting prisoners. Blunkett has denied these allegations.[34]’

    The record continues. The scandal about a visa for his then partner’s nanny. A directorship and shareholding in a company with government DWP contracts without clearing his actions with the appropriate authority. Continuing to live in ministerial accommodation after he had resigned. etc./
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Blunkett

    Darling we know about. He swindled the taxpayer with multiple flipping.

    ‘Expenses claims

    In May 2009, The Daily Telegraph reported that Darling changed the designation of his second home four times in four years, allowing him to claim for the costs of his family home in Edinburgh, and to buy and furnish a flat in London including the cost of stamp duty and other legal fees. Darling said that “the claims were made within House of Commons rules”.[26][27]

    Nick Clegg, leader of the Liberal Democrats, criticised him by saying: “given that very unique responsibility that [Darling] has [as Chancellor], it’s simply impossible for him to continue in that role when such very major question marks are being raised about his financial affairs”. A former chairman and treasurer of the Scottish Labour Party described Darling’s position as “untenable” and said that “[Darling] certainly shouldn’t be in the Cabinet”.[28]

    On 1 June 2009, Darling apologised “unreservedly” about a mistaken claim for £700, and had agreed to repay the money. He was supported by the Prime Minister, who referred to the incident as an inadvertent mistake.[29]

    In 2010 he resigned from the Faculty of Advocates as they were investigating his financial affairs.’
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alistair_Darling

    Great.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Thanks, Macky, good post at 1:22pm.

    There has always been creative tension, or perhaps a creative charge, within religion wrt the relationship b/w the material and the spiritual. It’s never been a simple matter, eg. the differences various gnostic sects and as I said, Muhammad’s own life and example. It’s also not simply a matter of martyrdom – that’s just one aspect or example of faith and itself has always been contentious even within particular religions/sects though of course it’s also been central to the founding mythologies (or theologies) of many faiths. There are many ways of dwelling in the faith and of not being a hypocrite.

    Unfortunately, within all faiths, some people have a very dogmatic and exclusive view and regard all otehrs as apostates/heretics/the damed,etc. They regard themsleves as the onyl ‘real’ Believers and will kill to prove their point. Another typical feature of the human species. Religion has brought out the best and worst of people, sometimes both simultaneously.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Yes, Mary, at 2:22pm, but to his credit, Oborne also directly answered the first question posed on ‘Question Time’, which actually was the very challenge I’d mentioned earlier in this thread (10:27am). He was the only member of the panel to say, that yes, the UK’s foreign policy has directly contributed to the current refugee crisis and to give specifc details about UK’s heinous actions on Iraq, Libya and Syria. Oborne also offered an accurate view on the Corbyn campaign.

  • John Spencer-Davis

    Mary
    29/08/2015 7:35pm

    I own a copy of “The Phantom Tollbooth”, by Norton Juster. It’s a children’s book, but it is an utter classic and I recommend it without hesitation – it plays with language in an extraordinarily clever and entertaining way.

    I know nothing about the film though.

    Kind regards,

    John

  • Mary

    Caroline Flint, one of the deputy leader candidates, accepts sponsorship from a lobbying outfit called Sovereign. One of their clients is Maximus, successors to ATOS.

    A Labour Deputy-Leader Candidate Is Being Funded by Corporate Lobbyists for Austerity
    July 14, 2015
    By Solomon Hughes
    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/solomon-hughes-caroline-flint-labour-deputy-leadership-campaign-901

    Solomon Hughes writes in the Morning Star.

    In http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-324d-Lobbyist-lords-links-with-Picasso-pilferer#.VeIjUWGFPSc
    he writes of a Cameron appointed peer, Lord Bridges of Quiller and who now acts for Santander’s Ana Botin. Santander’s record is appalling.

    In the second half the subject is Andy Crawford, an ex Labour MP, who is now a lobbyist.

    ‘Here are a few of the clients who can get their voices “heard” with the former Labour MP’s help: privatised utility British Gas; the European Azerbaijan Society, representatives of that nation’s authoritarian ruling elite; and Essential Living, a developer that wants to build private tower blocks and rent them to Londoners in a conscious effort to exploit “generation rent.” Essential Living also employs Tory former housing minister Mark Prisk.

    The Corby seat shows our Parliament sliding back to the kind of rottenness of the early 19th century, with seats either represented by rich hobbyists like Mensch, who might wander off at any moment, or hired guns like Sawford, who seem as happy representing foreign dictators or exploitative firms for cash as they do representing voters in Parliament.’

  • Mary

    Thanks for that recommendation John. I will try my local library now being run by volunteers!

  • Macky

    @Suhayl Saadi, Just a quick point about martyrdom, I used it as an extreme example to illustrate the paramount importance that committed religious people place on their Faith; no man made law or secular consideration will change that resolve; sure, an anti-religious persecution or draconian law may drive the faithful underground as under the Romans, or under the ruthless suppression of Soviet Communism, but the Church didn’t die or even go away, and today it’s as strong as ever, and Soviet Communism is history; another example that comes to mind, is the Indian Mutiny of 1857, in which both Hindu & Muslims Sepoys refused orders to bite into the grease cartridges of the newly issued Enfield reifles, because of rumours that the grease was derived from beef & pork fat, so rather than go against their religious beliefs, they rebelled against orders & started a major armed revolt that resulted in a death toll of over 100,000, and these were normal ordinary belivers, not the “dogmatic” fanatics or extremists you made referrence to.

  • fedup

    not the “dogmatic” fanatics or extremists you made referrence to.

    Torquemada Saadi has a jaundiced view of religion and is often busy fishing for ammo to fire back in a bid to further convince himself of his skewed weltanschauung, all the while genuflecting to the poppolitics of the moment.

    Your comment about the Romans, and communist oppression of the religious people, and the Indian 1857 revolt most certainly highlight the case for ordinary people practising their religion, and their oppression thereof. The “extremism” as currently appended to the religious people in a further bid to promote anti religious sentiments, whilst marginalising those practising their religion, that is other than a certain minority who enjoy practising their religion without any vilification.

  • giyane

    No Fedup. I’m perfectly happy for you to vent your methane at me , if it makes you feel more comfortable. Your eating bad curry doesn’t make your dogmatic opinions about me, Suhayl or Macky right, Just stinky.

    Hope you washed your bum. I wouldn’t want you to get haemorhoids.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Thanks, Macky, Yes, of course I agree that the need for religion seems to be a very basic human impulse and one which therefore has survived, and thrived, possibly even since the Neanderthals who I think used ritually to bury their dead. The multiverse is stranger than any of us can possibly imagine.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Fedup, I really am not against religion. I am in awe at the achievements and self-sacrifice of many people of faith (all faiths) and have found it to be an immense source of inspiration. I am against intolerance and persecution (and that includes anti-religious intolerance and persecution). I also think that all art derives from the transmuted religious impulse: A hymn to the universe.

    *******************

    Giyane, I hope you and your family are well.

  • nevermind

    Mary assumed that “At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament”

    Unless off course, it is a petition to legalise the medical use of marihuana, they just rejected to debate a 200.000 plus petition two weeks ago.
    Moral self serving cowards and hypocrites.
    Off course its OK for Cameron’s mate to sell Sativex to the NHS, a marihuana derivative, and hold a monopoly in this country.

  • Mary

    Did you know that P Harry is a conservationist?

    ‘Harry The Lionheart: Remarkable images of the conservationist Prince in Africa who declares ‘I have to go along with the way my life is. But I want to be here’
    Top of the Mail on Sunday page today

    Previous examples of his conservation work include –

    Spain http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-william-shoots-wild-boar-3123474 Stags and wild boar

    Sandringham http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/nov/07/monarchy.wildlife
    Hen harriers

    and more importantly in Afghanistan, people.
    http://persophile.blogspot.co.uk/2008/03/prince-harry-does-bad-things-to-bad.html

  • Suhayl Saadi

    “I have to go along with the way my life is.” Harry Hewitt [from article to which Mary linked, above]

    Ah, poor little rich boy. He’d rather be Tarzan.

    But what about tortoises?

  • Mary

    I thought that this comment on Medialens was excellent.

    Re: The continuing fallout from Gaddafi’s ouster: “Desperate Journeys: Nigerian Refugees in Italy”

    August 31, 2015, 7:06 am, in reply to “Re: The continuing fallout from Gaddafi’s ouster: “Desperate Journeys: Nigerian Refugees in Italy””

    I thinking of the self-proclaimed ‘feminist’ Yvette Cooper and her passionate interest in the rights and lives of women. Cooper supported the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya, and as one knows modern warfare is so destructive of civilian infrastructure and this disproportionately effects the lives of the most vulnerable, women, the old, childeren. Yet, the self-proclaimed champion of women has nothing to say about the carnage and havoc we so casually rain down on foreign women in our post-imperial wars.

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1441001212.html

  • Mary

    Jeremy Corbyn’s short speech in the Welfare Debate on 20 July was met with derision and sarcasm from IDS.

    Jeremy Corbyn Labour, Islington North

    I thank the Secretary of State for giving way so early on in his speech. Obviously, all of us are supportive of a productive, growing economy—that benefits everybody. But when he drew up proposals for this Bill, did he look at the levels of child poverty in Britain? Did he look at the levels of homelessness, destitution and rough sleeping in Britain? How does he think this Bill is going to improve that situation? Alternatively, will it make the holes in the welfare state safety net rather bigger, with more people falling through it as a result?

    Iain Duncan Smith The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions
    I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I wish him well in his campaign. [Laughter.] I was being genuine and not politically expedient. I must say that being Leader of the Opposition is not all that it is cracked up to be. I have some personal experience of that. He should be careful what he wishes for. None of us wishes him ill.

    /..
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2015-07-20c.1256.0&s=speaker%3A10133#g1257.2

    What will the erstwhile leader of the Tory partei have to say to the UN
    representative when she arrives? It’s not a joking matter IDS for those whose lives you are wrecking and in some cases literally ending prematurely.

    UN investigating British Government over human rights abuses caused by IDS welfare reforms
    The UN is to visit the UK to investigate whether Iain Duncan Smith’s welfare reforms have caused “grave or systematic violations” of disabled peoples’ human rights, it has been reported.
    30 August 2015
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/un-to-investigate-uk-over-human-rights-abuses-against-disabled-people-caused-by-welfare-reform-10478536.html

  • Macky

    “I have to go along with the way my life is.”

    Indeed, he should accepy his divine destiny as one of his not too distant predecessors had to do ; 😀

    ‘It looks as tho I shall spend the rest of my life shooting small birds & sleeping with larger ones’- Prince William of Gloucester.

    Mary; “I thought that this comment on Medialens was excellent.”

    By the glorious “gloriousrevolution”, who I believe sometimes post here as “writeon”; I only wished that he would post here more often !

  • fedup

    Fedup, I really am not against religion

    Of course you are not, you only detest Muslims! As your copious comments so far have clarified that point over and again. Although it is always wrapped in pretty words and snarl at anyone who dare to offer slight support for those pesky Muslims, as “understandably” they ought to be considered as the Daesh assigned reps here on this blog.

    =======

    I’m perfectly happy for you to vent your methane at me , if it makes you feel more comfortable. Your eating bad curry doesn’t make your dogmatic opinions about me, Suhayl or Macky right, Just stinky.

    It is now methane instead of fart! Boy! How very educated?

    Then back to the equal opportunity racism; “Your eating bad curry” (just can’t hide his hatred, can he?) followed with using big words; “dogmatic opinions about me” !

    As ever looking to butter up the others in a way of further vilification of me;

    your dogmatic opinions about me, Suhayl or Macky right, Just stinky.

    Fact that Macky has is one of the few commenters around here who gets in the neck from the keyboard warrior brigade and Jon the mod evidently has escaped the attention of the resident equal opportunity racist.

    Call him “Camouflage” all these years posing away as a Muslim which qualifies him to get on pouring racist bile on all things Islamic and Muslims because he is “one of them”. This is a variation to the old; “I have even a black friend/neighbor/employee/boss” used as a preamble get on with some seriously racist denouncements.

    Hope you washed your bum. I wouldn’t want you to get haemorhoids.

    Taking another dig at the Muslims, and the great everlasting know it all giving a hint as to be a practicing proctologist too!

  • Suhayl Saadi

    “Of course you are not, you only detest Muslims!” Fedup.

    That simply is untrue. Fedup, you have suggested that you yourself are not even Muslim yet you seem to feel you have the right to tell me that I supposedly “detest Muslims” and also on a recent thread, to suggest that I am not a Muslim.

    What makes you feel that you have the right to determine who is, and who is not, a Muslim?

    You now suggest that I am, “posing away as a Muslim”.

    But what precisely are you posing as? And what is your reality? Who are you and what precisely have you done in your life that makes you feel you have the right to determine someone else’s religion?

  • Suhayl Saadi

    I, and my work, am on the web and is out there in hard copy in the public domain – my story is openly available for anyone to read.

    But yours is not, Fedup. We do not know anything about you, do we? As far as I can see, you have never shared any personal details on this blog. That is your prerogative, of course. But it is extremely rich, then, to feel that you can denounce someone in this way. Did you know that from the Islamic point of view, doing what you have just done would be regarded as assuming the place of God. For according to Islam, only God can determine who is, and who is not, Muslim. You shout on this blog – at me, at Giyane, at anyone with whom you disagree.

    Giyane is Muslim. I am Muslim. So who, then, really, is the friend of Muslim people? You??

  • fedup

    That simply is untrue. Fedup, you have suggested that you yourself are not even Muslim yet you seem to feel you have the right to tell me that I supposedly “detest Muslims” and also on a recent thread, to suggest that I am not a Muslim.

    Actions speak louder Torquemada Saadi. Recollecting our little exchanges in which you have always somehow ended with questions; would you like to see an Islamic …… Caliphate …. …….. “other supremacists…. (implying Muslim supremacists)……

    Notwithstanding the above, you then ended up in denouncing me as an antisem….. (a real cheap trick) which was then deleted.

    Curiously you have the compunction;”to know me personally”, why?

    … As far as I can see, you have never shared any personal details on this blog.

    Will the next batch of inquisitorial interrogations stress on this new angle?

    Although I must be complimented to have my own question leveled at myself (albeit paraphrased);

    What makes you feel that you have the right to determine who is, and who is not, a Muslim?

    Indeed because as we know your pall guano/gyiane/etc is the Muslim declarer/finder Pursuivant, as his comments about “Asians”, “Muslims” and “Islam” clearly and manifestly indicate. However hard times make strange bedfellows, hence the alliance of you and guano/gyiane/etc, resident diss and even habaladdie.

    Finally this little gem;

    Fedup. We do not know anything about you, do we?

    Are you popping the question, and is your intent a proposal Torquemada?

    Gosh Mr. Torquemada Saadi I must declare……..!

    What has knowing me to do with anything Torquemada Saadi?

    The risible genuflection to despicable zionist supremacist, can have far reaching consequences evidently.

    PS why have you never pulled up guano/gyiane/etc for any of the horse pucky which he has been splattering around the place? The same goes for the other “luminaries” who are too busy denouncing and attacking Muslims in every opportunity?

    PPS You were the first one who denounced me for being steelback or whatever nemesis of yours, soon as I arrived on this board do you recollect the game you used to play?
    We have not moved from that footing to date, have we?

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Thank you Fedup, more of your fascinating prose style. It amuses me that you find my questioning – or even my presence, my existence – so very uncomfortable. Torquemada? if you wish. But I’d prefer to be known as, ‘Columbo’.

    I think people can draw their own conclusions.

    Oh, one more thing…

  • fedup

    It amuses me that you find my questioning – or even my presence, my existence – so very uncomfortable. Torquemada?

    Turning the tables not so cleverly, and taking the victim’s option; “you find…. even my presence, my existence – so very uncomfortable” This of course is with the preamble of; “my questioning”Italics then retuning to the jury of the public opinion!!!

    Because all of the commenters have the memory of a gold fish; a whole ninety seconds! These will not remember the insistent and continuously tabled interrogative questions; “do you believe …….” kind, will they?

    Needless to point out that you admit to this fact by calling yourself; ‘Columbo’, because as we know Torquemada didn’t have that much of a good reviews did he?

  • Suhayl Saadi

    In short, Fedup, I am not pretending to be anything. But your entire presentation here seems to me to signal performance. That’s fine. Indeed, it can be quite entertaining at times. But proceeding from that position renders any any kind of judgement of others, absurd. For example, telling me – a Muslim – that I am not a Muslim because I do not fulfil your criteria for what ‘a Muslim’ should be, is an intriguing and revealing approach. It is arguably also an essentialising and racist approach.

  • Jon

    Fedup, I think you are over-reacting, again. It is perfectly acceptable for people on the Left to be asked whether they are in favour of an Islamic Caliphate, or whatever other question. Of course, there are some people who would post these questions in bad faith, but Suhayl is clearly not one of them.

    You seem not to like to consider the topic of anti-Jewish racism. We are entirely agreed that the Israeli government is cruel and wantonly violent, and that the Palestinians have suffered one injustice after another, but that does not mean that racism against Jewish people does not exist. Of course antisemitism is used as a silencing device, and that too does not mean anti-Jewish racism cannot exist.

    As you know, I am not in favour of religion, but I also think people should be free to be religious if that is their choice. That means that no-one on this board gets to define who is a true Christian, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, or whatever – people can decide that for themselves.

  • fedup

    You seem not to like to consider the topic of anti-Jewish racism.

    Jon as ever, in any debate we are back on the “antisemi…..”. Can you remind me when was the last time EDL or any of the other plethora of the hatemongers openly marched in the streets of major cities insulting the Jews, and calling them names? In fact EDL in any given opportunity are waving the flag of zionistan, has it escaped your attention?

    There seems to be a time warp that you and some of your friends are caught up in, and regardless of the actualities, your narrative is the same as it was back in the early twentieth century without any regards that it is now 21st century and the Jews have become white. In their stead these days Muslims are in the vogue and EDL et al are busy harassing them, beating them up and murdering them!

    Furthermore the political climate has now come to blame the Muslims and the immigrants for all the ills of the economy, society, and use of NHS and lack of school places or even lack of jobs.

    I am not in favour of religion, but I also think people should be free to be religious if that is their choice. That means that no-one on this board gets to define who is a true Christian, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, or whatever – people can decide that for themselves.

    If you recollect I pulled you over the secularism, by stating that secularism itself can become a dogma and a religion, hence your forwarded contention that; “no-one on this board gets to define who is a true Christian, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, or whatever” is a tautology. However this obvious fact has helped you not to address the core issue that the use of the excuse of being a convert/already a practitioner of any one religion as a mask for attacking the followers of that religion. As the threads on this blog convey.

    Jon you are all too busy looking for the hidden and “latent” anti Jewish racism that you have missed the very obvious, tolerated, accepted racism against the Muslims and immigrants. Is this a deliberate oversight on your part?

    It is perfectly acceptable for people on the Left to be asked whether they are in favour of an Islamic Caliphate, or whatever other question.

    This is of course a reasonable statement, the only trouble is you are using this to excuse the dogged and incessant tabling of the same question in the inquisition style interrogations that is time and again tabled in differing formats.

    Fact is the left and the right are meaningless when the swathes of dispossessed human beings running away from the warts that our dear leaders have ignited on the behest of their corporate sponsors to be dehumanised and discriminated against. all the while you and your friends are worrying about anti-Jewish racism! Does this not clearly show a disconnect from reality?

    So far as Caliphate is considered you ought to know that Daesh is a creature of the Western SIS (as Al Qaeda or the database) hence questions of; “do you believe in Islamic supremacy/Caliphate, etc” are clearly naive questions that is supposedly asked by the well informed academics. Why should anyone ask such stupid questions? How do you reconcile that Jon?

  • Macky

    @Jon ; I think both you & Suhayl are missing the point about questioning Suhayl’s strange preoccupational emphasis on extremism in Islam; it’s obvious from his name that he/family originates from a Muslim part of the World, but if you consider somebody like Salman Rushdie, who was born into the Muslim faith, now actually calls himself a “hardline atheist”, you should be able to understand why in view of some of Suhayl’s comments, some may question, (not “define” as you are accusing), what exactly does he mean when he calls himself a Muslim; he states that he is not anti-religious, but merely against “intolerance and persecution”, yet it seems that all his remarks are aimed exclusively at Muslims, which does seem very bizarre when it is Muslims who are presently at the deadly receiving end of “intolerance and persecution”, and there’s a few million recent dead Muslims to confirm that.

    Speaking of strange preoccupation emphasises, it is very noticeable that you yourself seem very focused on anti-Jewish racism, it’s strange only in the sense that you keep bringing it up in the middle of other debates, as you have done yet again with Fedup, unless of course you are trying to infer that you think that Fedup is anti-Semitic; if that is the case, I’m sure he would rather you be upfront and tell him, and to tell him why you think so. I have to state that nothing I have seen from him leads me to think so, as although because of understandable outrage, he does sometimes uses language that I wouldn’t myself use, he has never not made clear that he is referring to Zionists or the Zionist governed State of Israel.

    Since you are in favour of people asking blunt questions, here’s one, do you have any personal Jewish connections ?

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