Dreams of Catalonia 131

Good luck to Catalonia today in breaking free from the suffocating grip of Spain. I hope that the Francoists in power in Madrid do nothing to provoke violence.

There may be an important precedent here on how to proceed in the event of the central government refusing to grant a referendum. I was pleased that Alex Salmond came out last week and said that a referendum is not necessarily the only route for Scotland. While that position is undoubtedly correct in international law, I had suffered pooh-poohing from Leadership Loyalists in Scotland every time I mentioned it. Hopefully now Salmond has spoken, the sheep will stop bleating. We do not know how things will pan out with Westminster and we must not close off our own options.

There is one interesting side issue in Catalonia. The astroturf anti-independence organisation Ciutadans (Ciudadanos in the rest of Spain) is a classic creation of Western security services. Its purpose is to counter both Catalan Independence and still more, Podemos, and maintain a secure right wing Spain in NATO. But unusually it is not the CIA that has been in the lead, but the BND, the German overseas security service. This is an outlier for a newly assertive policy by the BND, so the results will be watched particularly closely in the more obscured corridors of Berlin.

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131 thoughts on “Dreams of Catalonia

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  • Ken500

    The majority are not voting for a Referedum in Catalonia. 2Million of 5.3voters of a pop of 7.5Million. The majority did not vote for a Referendum on Independence. People are denied a vote. No Universal suffrage.

    2Million of 5.3voters of 7.5 pop is not a majority.

    Spanish politicians are a bunch of crooks. The Central, regional and municipal governance is corrupt.

    (Foreign? Voters) – EU (million) citizens are denied the right to vote. They can only vote in EU or municipal election. Not in national or regional elections or Referendums. The voting system is flawed.

    In Scotland everyone got a vote as per GE – all residents and 16/17 year olds got a vote.

    There is higher support for Independnce in Scotland. All residents got to vote and it only needs a 5% swing. Westminster Unionist politicians lied and cheated and reneged again. They are toast and will be wiped out in Scotland. Gone forever and then Scotland will get Ibdependence. Thry are corrupt liars.

    The Catalonia/Spanish administration allowed (holiday) housing fraud, through lack of regulation. Borrowing too much on foreign markets. A corrupt Pozzi scheme. There was lack of regulation. Many people lost a lot of money. (Millions/billions?) Catalonia has autonomy and can make and enforce it’s own Law. The Laws are not enforce properly.

  • fred

    “I don’t know what has been deleted in this case, but you have a long history of extremely aggressive and personal abuse on this board, so you don’t much have a leg to stand on. ”

    Only in defence, I only reply to personal attacks against me, I never do it unprovoked.

    The moderators here allow the Nationalist thugs free reign to harass and intimidate those who don’t share their views including real world threats.

    In this case the accusation of sock puppetry, an accusation the Nationalists can throw at anyone they like and there is no way to defend against it. Yet the moderators stand by while deleting much less harmful posts.

  • John Spencer-Davis

    29/09/2015 10:25am

    I have disagreed strongly with Fred on several occasions on here.

    We have never exchanged a cross word, and I have certainly never received any personal abuse from him.

    Kind regards,


  • Jon

    Fred, your defence is “the other boy started it”, which is exactly the problem. I don’t agree with abuse of any kind – towards you or from you – but yours is the language that stands out. It is my earnest view you are not the target of biased moderation (and I’m allowed to say that now I’m no longer snipping!).

    If someone calls you an idiot, and you retaliate thirty comments later with FOADR, then you’ve replied to a pea-shooter with a shotgun, and of course you’ll get excised. If the original insult was mild then it might get left alone, and if it was many pages back in the admin history, it may get missed.

    The bottom line is you need to stop throwing abuse. No ifs or buts.

    I don’t know about the history of accusations of sock-puppetry. Try ignoring it?

  • glenn

    Fred: “Only in defence, I only reply to personal attacks against me, I never do it unprovoked.

    Bullshit, Fred – you have form on this, providing exceedingly profane, personal abuse in reply to a polite request. Stop pretending you’re a saint – you’re a foul-mouthed bully, and there’s no point in denying it.

    Mods have obviously got a difficult job here without your whining all the time. If you don’t like it, piss off. Can’t say fairer than that.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Hi Glenn, Still trying to go on HORN site, but want to get everything together before I do, as America’s covert government, especially the FBI, is trying again to connect me to the unsolved murder of poor John P. Wheeler, IIII, the cyber expert who was so opposed to what the NSA was doing to Iran.

    Of course, I had nothing to do with his murder, but Thomson Reuters has produced a 44=page file connecting me to Steven G, Nickerrson, a friend of Wheeler’s alleged murderer Andrew Levene who conveniently died after he conducted a murder-robbery in Westport, Connecticut four years ago.

    The Bidens, especially Veep Joe, were most involved in covering up Wheeler’s murder which is causing him great doubts about running for Ptreidentt.

    Am using this site to contact you as you are clearly here, and most posters think it is most unlikely that the counter terrorists are going after anyone.

  • DoNNyDaRKo

    Habbanother look at history.

    In the name of the Truman Doctrine the United States supplied the military and economic power to enable the Greek monarchy to defeat an army of communist-led insurgents in 1947-49 and won a victory which has become a model for U.S. relations toward civil wars and insurgencies.

  • John Spencer-Davis

    29/09/2015 2:13pm

    Cut and pasted.

    Cut and pasted from “The Truman Doctrine and the Greek Civil War”, excerpted from the book Intervention and Revolution: The United States in the Third World by Richard J. Barnet, probably from Third World Traveler.

    If you are going to cut and paste, will you please give the source you are cutting and pasting from. It isn’t your own work.

    Many thanks,


  • fred

    “Fred, your defence is “the other boy started it”, which is exactly the problem. I don’t agree with abuse of any kind – towards you or from you – but yours is the language that stands out. It is my earnest view you are not the target of biased moderation (and I’m allowed to say that now I’m no longer snipping!).”

    Rubbish. The Nationalists try to stifle any criticism of the SNP using personal attacks threats and intimidation while the moderators look the other way. They can either do their jobs and deal with it or allow me to deal with it my way as I would in a forum without moderation, anything else is biassed moderating.

  • glenn

    Hi Trowbridge: The HORN has gone dark until next Monday, they did announce it in advance. Wouldn’t be surprised if the site had been attacked in Bob kincade’s absence, though.

    Are you serious – someone’s trying to fit you up, connect you with some murder? You need to be careful mate, establish an alibi asap!

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