This is the official Turkish radar track of the Russian aircraft they shot down, in red. It briefly transited a tiny neck of Turkish land – less than two miles across where the Russian jet passed – twice. I calculate that each “incursion” over Turkish territory would have lasted about 10 seconds, assuming the plane was flying slowly at 600mph. That Turkey shot down the plane for this is madness, and absolutely indefensible. It is fairly obvious from the track that the plane was operating against Turkish sponsored Turkmen rebels inside Syria, and that is why the Turks shot it down.
But the inescapable conclusion is that the true madness would be for the UK to get involved in Syria and make a complex and volatile situation still worse, and risk being dragged into wider conflict.
Israel is light-years ahead of the rest of the region, RoS, and it has achieved that in little over half a decade while it’s neighbours have continually tried to destroy it. The Arab world continues to rot away, blaming everything on the Jews.
You’d be able to view this rationally if you didn’t hate the Jews so much yourself.
BDS and now the labelling of good made by Israel on stolen lands called settlements, by the EU, is beginning to take its toll on the military state of Israel.
Israel has no recourse but to try and sue, which must be pretty frustrating for a country who settles it problems with bombs and white phosphorus.
The mere act of considering to sue the BDS activist on the grounds of racial discrimination and damaging Israeli trade and economy, speaks of the fear seeping among the Zionist in the Knesset. This nonviolent movement for the justice in Israel/Palestine has grown more momentum than Israel could have imagined.
Considering the figures, Israel’s disquiet over BDS is genuine. Israeli financial newspaper reported ,estimating that BDS could cost Israel’s economy $1.4billlion a year.
The estimate included exports from the West Bank settlements and with the EU’s decision to label the occupied territory products by the Israel ( not part of the BDS movement) , The Rand Corporation estimates that the loss could be more than three times higher: $47bn over 10 years.
I wonder what the meaning of the avatar is as well, mary. I think it’s supposed to represent irony, where in reality there is a resemblance.
Do shut up with the faux outrage and virtue signalling, Mary.
‘Those in the know watched “Dr. Strangelove” amused, like everyone else, but also stunned. Daniel Ellsberg, who later leaked the Pentagon Papers, was a RAND analyst and a consultant at the Defense Department when he and a mid-level official took off work one afternoon in 1964 to see the film.
Mr. Ellsberg recently recalled that as they left the theater, he turned to his colleague and said, “That was a documentary!”‘
Truth Stranger Than ‘Strangelove’
By FRED KAPLAN
OCT. 10, 2004
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/movies/truth-stranger-than-strangelove.html?_r=0
“Funny you should mention that, my neighbour called the Jewish Samaritans yesterday, he too said he felt suicidal, they said to him, go blow up some building, when he said he couldn’t they said nevermind you can always run over some Palestinians with a bulldozer.”
You need to work on that one a bit, RoS. Maybe try it a few times in front of the mirror before posting.
And just like Hab, she is immune to insults. It takes a thick skin to be a raging conservative.
“I called the Islamic Samaritans today. When I told them I felt suicidal, they got all excited and asked if I wanted a pilots licence.” Anon1
That’s actually quite funny. I laughed, anyway.
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Shooting down the Russian ‘plane might be a very clear message from NATO to Russia, or it might be the kind of really dangerously stupid thing that triggers wars in the context of an already highly charged situation.
Is Turkey (NATO/GCC) backing every Tom, Dick and Harry ‘rebel’ group in Syria, from the Monster Raving Jihadi Baadi Party to the Seventh Sons of Zenobia? And do they wish to make a habit of shooting down the ‘military aeroplanes of superpowers? It seems that way.
Trolls are quick as a flash with their pathetic ripostes. Must come from lots of practice in blog comments sections.
Wonder where Bunny picked up that phrase ‘virtue signalling’. Jewish Chronicle? Jerusalem Post? The Spectator?
“That’s actually quite funny. I laughed, anyway”
Thanks, Suhayl 🙂
So the left expressing outrage and taking offence on behalf of Muslims? Nothing new there I’m afraid.
Yeah. Highlarious. Suck some more kneecap.
“Israel is light-years ahead of the rest of the region, RoS, and it has achieved that in little over half a decade while it’s neighbours have continually tried to destroy it. The Arab world continues to rot away, blaming everything on the Jews.
You’d be able to view this rationally if you didn’t hate the Jews so much yourself.”
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You fool, Israel only exists due to the grace of the USA, you know as well as I do influencial and powerful Jews well placed in the USA are sympathetic to Israels never ending and precarious predicament.
If the US taxpayer ever wakens up to the fact that they’re being royaly screwed by successive US governments to support a regime built on blood and the bones of others, thing in Israel could become very uncomfortable.
Don’t kid yourself that Israel is somhow a utopian society compared to other countries in the region, when 1.8 million people live in a open air prison controlled by Israel and its whims, whims which killed 2,200 women children and families last summer.
The world doesn’t see Israel as light yrears ahead, no it sees Israel as the oppressors, sad really you’d have thought they’d have been more compassionate after their ordeals in WWII.
sad really you’d have thought they’d have been more compassionate after their ordeals in WWII.”
But, you’re on record as being a Holocaust Denier, RoS. Why have you changed your tune just now?
“Wonder where Bunny picked up that phrase ‘virtue signalling’”
I’m beginning to understand. The relations between the trolls and numerous others here is like the relationship between ISIS and CENTCOM. Cordial.
There is a more serious side to the joke, however. A good Pakistani friend of mine from Karachi once told me that the basic problem with Islam is that it lacks compassion.
No compassion? The first line of the Koran, which is also used at the beginning of many Muslim documents, translates: “In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the most Merciful“
How much compassion do the Israelis show?
Attention Co -op Bank customers! ( Apologies – O/T).
http://www.palestinecampaign.org/co-operative-bank-close-pscs-account/
“No compassion? The first line of the Koran, which is also used at the beginning of many Muslim documents, translates: “In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the most Merciful“”
To Muslims. Haven’t you noticed that Muslim charities exist only to give to Muslims? Whereas the West stumps up millions every time a disaster happens in a Muslim country?
Have you noticed how homeless people don’t have spare change to give to those with homes?
“The SNP voted at Westminster today to scrap Tridents renewal, unfortunately they were out voted.”
How many MPs do they have these days?
Author Ahoran Appelfeld, and writer of novels such as “Age of Wonder” describes his nightmare as Jewish people in Badenheim are held in a resort which effectively becomes a open air prison camp (wring any bells).
In his book the Age of Wonder Appelfeld through the character Bruno, encounters all manner of obstacles set up to hinder or deride the Jewish people.
My point is this, history and its events are deeply ingrained in the Jewish psyche, brought out through writings from the likes of Agnon, or Heller or Ginzburg.
Ypu would think suffering such persecutions through history and incorporating the “suffering” in their writings that they’d realise the power of compassion, but no it’s not to be.
During my visits to Turkey, the Turks in whose homes I stayed, who were Muslims, were most hospitable to me. Being gracious to guests is a major part of their culture.
I am a Catholic.
“How many MPs do they have these days?”
____________
A hell of a lot more than London Labour’s branch office in Scotland, at last count they had 1.
I read a report that this map of Turkeys border includes the 5 mile buffer zone which is Syrian air space not Turkeys.
How did that one Labour MP from Scotland, Ian Murray, vote on Trident renewal?
Oh, I found out from this article, http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/20-labour-mps-rebel-against-corbyn-to-vote-on-trident#.ikkaoDNVq . Murray abstained.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/24/turkey-downs-russian-jet-to-draw-nato-and-us-deeper-into-syrian-quagmire/
It’s obvious the issue was collateral damage to paramours near border and the shoot-down thinly veiled superficial justification is designed to get NATO involved.
The enemy of my enemy as ‘friend’ gets more complicated by the day. Pretzel twisted alliances are sick justification for balancing every nations particular ambitions.
I think we can safely blame global warming for the poorly funded muslim charity coffers. 🙂
You are quite correct, Kelsey.
Furthermore, Turkey is supposed to be part of a coalition that’s intent on defeating ISIS. Strange that Turkey should shoot down a Russian jet, when Russia has done more over the last few months to defeat ISIS than America has done since it started bombing Syria in September 2014.
The trolls on this board are absolutely disgusting, by the way.