With over 50,000 sorties already flown by allied aircraft against ISIL, it added nothing substantial for a tiny number of British jets to fly instantly after the Westminster vote to hit an oilfield in Syria. It was purely war porn, to provide all those pictures of jets taking off to excite the public and continue the propaganda. Worth noting that none of the mythical magical missiles that don’t kill civilians was used last night, just high explosive freefall bombs. The target is also a useful reminder that, as always, oil features prominently in neo-con foreign policy. MPs spoke openly in last night’s debate of breaking up Syria, which will be music to the ears of Genie Energy and Messrs Murdoch and Rothschild, and the Israeli government which astonishingly has already issued oil licences within Syria.
If we actually wanted to bomb the oilfields that fund ISIL, we would be bombing Saudi Arabia.
Scotland is being dragged into a war it voted near unanimously against. 96.5% of Scotland’s MPs voted against the airstrikes in Syra. On platforms all up and down this country, I argued that I do not care a damn about how strong powers are given to Scotland’s parliament in domestic affairs, it we are not a sovereign nation and can still be taken to war against our will. I was proud of Alex Salmond last night for expressing contempt at the notion that civilians are not killed in British airstrikes, a big lie nobody else directly challenged.
I am reassured that last night’s events must be yet another step along the road to independence, and will have invigorated SNP hearts against the temptation of being too comfortable at Westminster.
I don’t know how many oil engineers, or people who cook and clean for oil engineers, we incinerated last night, but the triumphalism of the Blairite warmongers over it is not a very edifying sight. It says something for the strength of the delusions entertained in the Blairite bubble that the fact that Hilary Benn’s speech led to the rafters echoing with Tories making HWOAR HWOAR noises, is taken by them as a massive sign of imminent triumph within the Labour Party. The 28% of Labour MPs who supported Cameron – which they did with explicit attacks on their own leader and on Labour members who were opposing the Tories – will be experiencing the shock of hangover as the heady moment of triumph seems a lot less clever the next day.
UPDATE: I have withdrawn a statement about British aircraft intercepting Russian aircraft, as my informant has been in touch to say they were in fact referring to an incident several days ago.
me at 2.12 :Make of that what you will.
Apparently it’s not uncommon for Christians, so there’s not much to make of it.
Tony M 1.24 pm
Quotes from, sometime Fabian, Bertrand Russell, from his 1952 book, “The Impact of Science on Society”:
“Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for a generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen.”
And
“Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so. A totalitarian government with a scientific bent might do things that to us would seem horrifying. The Nazis were more scientific than the present rulers of Russia, and were more inclined towards the sort of atrocities that I have in mind.”
And finally this stunning observation
“War, as I remarked a moment ago, has hitherto been disappointing in this respect, but perhaps bacteriological war may prove more effective. If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full. There would be nothing in this to offend the consciences of the devout or to restrain the ambitions of nationalists. The state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of that? Really high-minded people are indifferent to happiness, especially other people’s.”
Very scary and, to some degree, prescient stuff wouldn’t you say? How much more oligarchical elitist could he be? He obviously did not write his book for the proles to read.
Source: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Impact_of_Science_on_Society
The RAF bombed the same Omar oil field that the US bombed last month. Using US made Paveway bombs. Nothing the US couldn’t have done then. If it was of such vital importance why were the US holding off on bombing it again till just after this vote?
Sorry not last month (December now!) 22 October…
Phil –
“I have to say some of you are terribly childish……”
Go stand in the House of Commons and SHOUT IT TO THE RAFTERS!
Speaking of Saudi, turns out the two shooters at San Bernardino California yesterday met in Saudi earlier this year.
Where is the command centre for the bombing operation?
Some say Baghdad. Others including Sky News’ Alistair Bunkall say Qatar.
I see Brookings are installed in Doha.
‘About Us – Brookings Doha Center
Established in 2008, the Brookings Doha Center (BDC) is an overseas center of the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. As a hub for Brookings scholarship in the region, the BDC advances high-quality, independent research and policy analysis on the Middle East and North Africa.
The Brookings Doha Center International Advisory Council is co-chaired by H.E. Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabr Al-Thani, former prime minister and minister of foreign affairs of the State of Qatar, and Brookings President Strobe Talbott. Members include: Madeleine Albright, Samuel Berger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Edward Djerejian, Wajahat Habibullah, Musa Hitam, Pervez Hoodhboy, Nemir Kirdar, Rami Khouri, Atta-ur-Rahman, Ismail Serageldin, and Fareed Zakaria.
The Center was formally inaugurated by H.E. Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabr Al-Thani on February 17, 2008. Others present included Carlos Pascual, former vice president and director of the Brookings Foreign Policy Program, Martin Indyk, executive vice president of the Brookings Institution, and Hady Amr, founding director of the Brookings Doha Center. The center is funded by the State of Qatar.’
/..
http://www.brookings.edu/about/centers/doha/about
Lysias – But have they ever been to Nandos???
“Before our aircrew conducted their attacks, as is normal they used the aircraft’s advanced sensors to confirm that no civilians were in the proximity of the targets, who might be placed at risk.” From the MoD.”
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Anyone who believes the above shit, seek medical help immediately.
Repunlicofscotland – What about it is not plausible? (Im not saying i believe it btw, playing devils advocate)
Of course, because anyone who was in the proximity of the targets was ipso facto an enemy combatant.
“Repunlicofscotland – What about it is not plausible? (Im not saying i believe it btw, playing devils advocate)”
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Firstly Phil if it’s coming from the MoD it dubious to start with secondly when dropping a bomb on a building or structure the pilot can’t be sure who’s inside that structure or building.
You just have to look at the collateral damage caused by bombing in Afghanistan and Iraq, bombing in my opinion is so hit and miss that on occasions, Iraq as a example coalition troops were killed in friendly fire (bombing).
Last summer Israeli bombing missions, (they have state of the art jetfighters) killed 2,200 civilians and blew up a hospital full of women and children, so much for their sophisticated sensors.
“The RAF bombed the same Omar oil field that the US bombed last month”
So it was claimed, but the cockpit footage provided turned out to be Russian. No doubt the footage from the UK’s operation will be released soon.
Cameron announced that ‘taking more (than the 2,500 into the UK (applications since the start of the war) Syrian refugees is no answer on its own’… so last night we discovered what else would be necessary.
With more than 700,000 asylum seekers entering Germany this year many towns have temporary quarters set up to house them. The 600-700 asylum seekers in my town are being housed in a school gymnasium. Resources here are being used to care. The police, red cross, town council and towns people are all involved in a humanitarian operation providing food, shelter, clothing to many who have made homeless and landless by the likes of Cameron and the rest
We dont know what they targeted so to say people could’ve been in buildings is too early IMO. Secondly, weaponry has got more and more precise and maybe using airstrikes in Afghanistan as comparison isn’t strictly correct. Also do you know what checks the Israelis go through before their airstrikes, is it the same as the checks The RAF would do? As i say just playing devils advocate but to dismiss it immediately as untrue is premature IMO.
Here Phil this will start you off, but you’ve got to do your own research, ex-military personnel often give good accounts of what going on, never believe the official narrative when it comes to war.
http://www.gq.com/story/drone-uav-pilot-assassination
Again IMO, you cant compare stories of US and Israeli air-strikes to RAF air-strikes unless you know they use the exact same system….
I guess bombing the same facility Russia bombed last month would be an effective way to limit the damage done to ISIS by the bombing.
Israeli airstrikes killed a lot more civilians than Hamas fighters (who were in tunnels mainly) during the most recent Gaza was.
Gaza war, that should have been. Oh for an edit function! Or a preview!
@ Phil: An Air Vice Marshal told me personally that RAF advanced sensors are so smart they can target individual methodists and Man City supporters, as well as people who let their dogs foul the pavement.
Your argument is obviously flawed if you have to resort to sarcasm……..
If he’s really such a dim bulb, I really wonder if persuasion is possible.
If, as I suspect, it’s deliberately feigned obtuseness, it’s obviously impossible.
We’ve been dragged into likely defeat and I suspect it was at the insistence of America which was pushed by Israel. It’s just a question of time before some incident puts Britain [ie. US-led NATO] into conflict with Russia. We are like the boxer who can land the odd good punch but he has no stamina; he won’t be standing at the end and neither will we.
Node Reminds me of Blair being godfather to one of the Murdoch children being baptized in the Jordan river. They all wore white!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/05/tony-blair-godfather-murdoch-daughter
All went swimmingly in the Blair Murdoch relationship until Wendi Deng enticed Blair to her ranch for some company.
Last I heard Murdoch was escorting Jerry Hall around town. Age is no barrier to romance. He is 84.
My response to this risible nonsense would have been, “Is anyone, anyone at all, expected to believe this crap?” But apparently the answer is yes – they do. Quite happily, and without hesitation.
I don’t believe it without hesitation, i doubt many do. However no one on here has yet to give a reason why it is wrong other than “the israelis often kill civilians in airstrikes”.
It’s notorious how many civilians have been killed by U.S. drone strikes.
Ahh yes the great airforce of the US, the RAF.
“Again IMO, you cant compare stories of US and Israeli air-strikes to RAF air-strikes unless you know they use the exact same system….”
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Well Phil since you havent mentioned the the detection system on the 30 year old GR4 Tornados I assume you don’t know.
Here is their system it is a a optical infrared system, which works day or night.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAPTOR
The last I checked infrared couldn’t see through steel, stone or concrete structures.
But like I said early Phil do some research, I say that because you seem to doubt everyone else’s opinion on the matter.