Corporate Media Circles Wagons Around Tories 222

I spoke this morning with a Tory MP who has been commendably active on human rights issues in Central Asia, who wanted to speak to me about an article in the Daily Mail. In general conversation, he said Iain Duncan Smith is “disloyal” and the anti-EU Tories are “knuckle draggers”.

The last three UK opinion polls have all shown the Tory lead vanished to well within the margin of error, despite all the pollsters making substantial adjustments to uprate the Tory vote following the pollsters’ general election debacle. This has horrified the Blairites who were gleefully predicting Labour annihilation in English council elections.

There is a huge amount of polling evidence over decades that shows that the perception that a party is divided causes much damage to that party’s popularity rating. Indeed the perception of division or unity is almost as important as what the actual policies are. The spectacular tumbling of popular Tory support in the UK is therefore entirely expected when the Tories are kicking pieces out of each other over Europe and Osbornomics.

The corporate media, including the BBC, of course know this very well. That is why ever since those opinion polls the bitter Tory internal battles have simply stopped being reported. I have no doubt their political correspondents are having conversations like the one I had with an MP this morning, several times every day. Yet when did you last see one reported? Compare this to the regular reporting of every tittle tattle of anonymous Blairite briefing against Corbyn.

Corporate media blanking of the bitter and vicious Tory internal feuding in process at the moment is a stunning act of censorship.

Self-censorship in corporate interests is still censorship.

The kid-glove treatment given the Tories’ divisions compared to other parties is astonishingly stark, especially by the BBC.

[In Scotland the SNP lead remains serenely untroubled]

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222 thoughts on “Corporate Media Circles Wagons Around Tories

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  • Tom

    “I have know doubt”

    Are you using voice-recognition to dictate your posts now Craig? I hope so. Typing just cause RSI. And better spelling.

    • craig Post author

      Thanks, corrected. I regularly make exactly this category of mistake all the time now as I type – obviously some kind of sign of ageing. I often repeatedly use the same adjective in a short space too. I usually but not always catch these on re-reading.

      • glenn_uk

        Another trivial correction – “…the perception that a party is divided causes much…

        Perhaps the “is” should be omitted?

          • glenn_uk

            I beg your pardon, for some reason I failed to take account of the first that in the sentence. Must be getting old myself, or at least overworked and multi-tasking too much!

      • lysias

        You’re not the only one who makes that kind of mistake. A reason why we should have an edit (or at least a preview) function on this site.

        • Habbabkuk

          Should we be making further demands on Craig and the good volonteers who help him with the blog?

          The real problem,, surely, is the lack of posting discipline and not the absence of an edit function.

  • YouKnowMyName

    trivial correction “know doubt” = ‘no doubt’ (the automagic computerised spoil chicken happens again)

    The media machine has inexorably moved on from the tory election ‘victory’, next is the people’s choice for the EU (but the majority of the voters don’t understand the actuality), then the US election will receive the coverage. . . everything will be emotionally pushed rather than factually based. That’s us, 2016, and is seemingly inherited from the US media in the 1980’s.

  • fred

    “[In Scotland the SNP lead remains serenely untroubled]”

    Well the Scottish FOI Commissioner has instructed staff not to release any information critical of the Scottish government till after the election.

    Wouldn’t want an informed electorate now would we?

    • jimnarlene

      That’ll be the “purdah” period, as happens in every election; and so ignored by unionists during the referendum.
      Wouldn’t want unfair or biased media reports, would we?

      • fred

        No, we want factual reports whether critical of Government ministers or not. Not releasing information critical of the government is itself bias. All information should be released as who it is critical of.

        The FOI Commissioner and staff are not employed by the government so purdah would not apply to them.

        • Ba'al Zevul

          See UK policy guidance, section I/3…

          Departmental communications staff may therefore properly
          continue to discharge during the Election period their normal
          function only to the extent of providing factual explanation of
          current Government policy, statements and decisions. They must
          be particularly careful not to become involved in a partisan way in
          election issues.

          I think Fred’s FoI request: ” Is the SNP a bunch of Nazis who want to kill me?” would be adequately dealt with by ignoring it until after the election, and/or (see elsewhere in link) referring him to SNP HQ.

          Can’t see what he’s worried about, though. All the print media except the Herald (I hope), all the broadcast media, and every unionist on the internet will be as unremittingly hostile as he could wish. He may even provide links to them as authorities for his opinions. Can’t see FoI requests producing anything worse.

          • fred

            The FOI commissioners are not a government department, they are an independent body funded by the Scottish Parliament.

          • Ba'al Zevul

            The FoI Commissioners are not the source of the material sought by an FoI request, merely its agents. The material itself. if departmental, would be subject in any case to the caveat I linked.

          • fred

            The government department would be obliged by law to release the information if requested so couldn’t be accused of any political bias by doing so.

            You do understand the purpose of the FOI Act don’t you? Transparency in government so voters can make an informed decision when going to the polls.

          • Ba'al Zevul

            Yes, Fred. And it has no relevance to what I stated. Under the standing guidance for the UK, at any rate, the government department would be obliged during the purdah period not to release material favouring or deprecating any party. Whether in government prior to the dissolution (geddit? There isn’t a parliament during this period) or not. If the Scottish government prior to dissolution cares to emphasise this guidance, that’s entirely within its remit. Worse things happen at sea (see also national maritime zones), get over it.

  • lysias

    Tariq Ali said on Democracy Now! a couple of days ago that the Tories’ squabbling could bring Corbyn to Downing Street.

    • Pan

      Wishful thinking.

      Still, it is rather atypical of Mr. Ali to fail (*) to take into account the power of the presstitute media to shore up The Establishment.

      (*) perhaps he didn’t. I haven’t seen the show yet.

    • Habbabkuk

      I heard Tariq Ali give a talk a couple of years ago in a location I shall not bother to disclose and was obliged to note that the man’s views have not changed over the decades; more importantly, perhaps, I also noted that his supreme, patrician confidence that his predictions will come to pass remains unshaken.

      It is a pity that none of them has.

      I fear (for him) that this is unlikely to change.

  • Republicofscotland

    Another nail in the coffin of the BBC, they just can’t bring themselves to air unbiased reports. Brexit, and deep unfair austerity cuts, thrust upon the poor and less fortunate by a incompetent bumbling chancellor, has created a rift amongst the Tories.

    Alas I’m sorry to say at present, the Labour party in England, isn’t really in any better shape, the difference however, is as you state Craig, the media aren’t shy at airing ant-Corbynista views on it.

    • Pan

      “Another nail in the coffin of the BBC”

      More wishful thinking, I’m afraid.

      You are forgetting their raison d’être.

      • Republicofscotland


        I’m afraid you’re right on that, however, I’m sure more and more people are beginning to notice the BBC’s lack of parity, when it comes to reporting on certain matters.

        I recommend you read G.A Ponsonby’s London Calling (BBC Bias), this site is also worth a look.

        • Pan

          My attention was drawn to G.A Ponsonby’s London Calling when you recommended it to Rob’s auntie! 🙂

  • Republicofscotland

    Meanwhile the Tories North of the border, have been accused of “hidden taxes ” in their plans to introduce tuition fees and prescription charges, if, in the event of a miracle, they are elected into government.

    Ruth Davidson leader of the Tories branch in Scotland said tuition fees would cost around £1,500 pounds per year, and prescription charges would be priced at £8.00 pounds.

    If I recall right, when tuition fees were introduced in England, they were £1000 pounds, before rising to £9000 pounds, and the Tories went on to remove that cap as well.

    • Herbie

      Trump has a habit of saying outrageous things, then changing his mind.

      He’s but the stooge to Hillary’s straight guy.

      Thing is, Hillary is such a psycho cnut that any normal candidate would destroy her at election.

      She needs an opponent who looks even more mercurial and insane than her, to make her look faintly human.

      Step forward, Donald J Trump, the most hated man in America!

      Jon Pilger has already run afoul of the controlled “leftists” for Hilary, who are trying hard to keep her real record as secret as possible, by censorship:

    • Herbie

      Hillary will be fighting the election on her “progressive” values.

      Handy that she has an opponent who portrays himself as the exact opposite of that.

      Black and white. Goodie and baddie. Clear blue water. Nothing complex.

      Keep it simple, eh.

      • bevin

        About one million poor Americans will lose their entitlement to SNAP (Food Stamp) benefits tomorrow.
        This is thanks to a 1996 (Bill Clinton) law tying Food Stamp eligibility to employment: anyone unemployed for more than three months loses benefits.
        That is part of the “Progressive” legacy of the Clinton years.

        The reality is that she is likely to lose in any straight contest with Trump.
        And part of the reason for her vulnerability, which relates to Craig’s post above, is that Clinton has the almost unanimous support of the media. And a large part of the population regards that with the same suspicion that Labour party members viewed the Press’s unanimous opposition to Corbyn.

        We are reaching the stage, thanks to thousands of news sources such as this blog, at which the serial abuse of media control by the Establishment is beginning to make media support counter productive.

        • Herbie

          Well, Trump is the Bankers’ guy as well, and AIPAC’s.

          They’ve got both covered.

          I think it’s pretty clear that the outlines of the campaigns are progressive Hillary against regressive Trump.

          It’s bollocks, of course, but these are the respective pitches.

          And both play to Hillary’s carefully crafted image amongst progressives, who, after all, are more likely to vote than the poor, depressed and suicidal.

          It may not work, but i expect that her idealistic supporters will need much sharper shocks before they begin to question their world view.

          • Ba'al Zevul

            No. Trump made the obligatory noises at the obligatory AIPAC meeting (and had to use a teleprompt in case he had a brainfart and told the truth) – but he is not dependent on AIPAC’s networks for campaign funding. Hillary was bought by AIPAC long ago and is 100% onside. As far as the woman can be said to be sincere about anything when she opens her mouth, she got an excellent response at the AIPAC show, and she’s effectively been booked to star in the musical. She’s the Israeli choice. Trump’s best leverage is with Republican Christian pro-Israel wackoes, but his inability to wave a Bible properly, let alone quote the contents, reduces his traction there somewhat. Ted (” I’m Cuban, Irish and Italian, and yet somehow I ended up Southern Baptist”) Cruz would be your man for that.

          • Herbie

            That’s about the first thing you’ve got right on here, Martinned.

            You’d like to pretend I’m sure that a Congress that prostrates itself before Israeli leaders, and presidential hopefuls who prostrate themselves before AIPAC and candidates who have their campaigns run by AIPAC guys, is all coincidence.

            Not sure anyone’d believe you though.

          • Martinned

            Campaign finance, in general, is an odd thing. The bulk of the PoliSci evidence suggests that money follows success rather than the other way around. I’m not too bothered about AIPAC because I’m confident that, whatever I may think of the US Israel policy, Congress’s views are broadly in line with those of their constituents. I don’t see a lot of evidence that AIPAC is moving either the electorate in general or Congress in particular in a more pro-Israel position. (Which is why both are about as pro-Israel as they have been for the last several decades.)

          • Herbie

            “I don’t see a lot of evidence that AIPAC is moving either the electorate in general or Congress in particular in a more pro-Israel position”


            You don’t think US policy has moved to a more pro-Israel position, since AIPAC’s founding in 1963.

          • Martinned

            As you and others have been discussing in recent threads, the US already supported Israel during the Six-Days War. So what has changed?

          • lysias

            The 1967 Middle East war was after the assassination of John Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963. Israel’s nuclear reactor at Dimona, vital to its nuclear weapons program (which JFK had been trying to stop), went critical on Dec. 26, 1963. After that, LBJ turned a blind eye to the Israeli nuclear weapons program and to the theft of nuclear materials from the NUMEC firm in Apollo, Pennsylvania in or around 1965. And, whatever happened in connection with the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, LBJ certainly let Israel off the hook.

            So policy did change after 1963.

          • Herbie

            We’re looking at the influence of AIPAC today on Congress, presidential candidates, and in this case actually running the Trump campaign, and how that differs from when they were formed in 1963.

            In 1963 US policy was rather aloof so far as Israel was concerned.

            Today it licks its ass, in an extraordinarily demeaning way.

            Are you claiming that AIPAC had no part in this massive transformation.

          • Martinned

            That ascribes to AIPAC a near-instantaneous impact. There’s a reason why my original statement was in terms of “the last few decades”. If AIPAC can’t make the US more pro-Israel between, say, 1990 and now (or any other 25-year period since they were founded), their donors aren’t getting their money’s worth.

          • Martinned

            In 1963, US politicians and US voters supported Israel 90+% of the time, and they still do today. To be sure, there’s lots of cheap talk, and even cheap politics like that Jerusalem passports business, but when it comes to actions that really matter, I’m not seeing the change.

          • Herbie

            AIPAC’s function today is to maintain US political subjugation to Israel.

            That’s what they’re paying for.

            In 1963 it was to change US policy towards Israel.

            Luckily for them they found a willing puppet in LBJ.

            That probably explains the apparent instantaneity in change of policy.

          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)


            I would believe Martinned with the same conviction as I disbelieve you.

          • Herbie

            Facts is facts, habby.

            However much you and your substance free zoners would wish otherwise.

            Hardly a secret these days.

  • Lord Palmerston

    > bitter Tory internal battles have simply stopped being reported

    > Corporate media blanking of the bitter and vicious Tory internal
    > feuding in process at the moment is a stunning act of censorship.

    A few seconds ago on the home page of the Daily Telegraph web site:
    “If Cameron can’t stop the Tory fighting he’ll clear Corbyn’s path to
    No 10” by Norman Tebbit.

    Article here,

  • Republicofscotland


    Scotland’s largest city ( Glasgow) has finished installing state of the art camera’s that support face recognition software. Although the system will help identify more criminals, I can’t help feeling that it’s one step closer to “Minority Report” style retina scanning.

    However, although I’m midly opposed to the new software, reading reports that Scotland’s largest mosque, and prominent Muslims within, may have had clandestine links with proscribed Pakistani sectarian groups, doesn’t add vigour to my opposition of the software.

    • Pan

      “reports that Scotland’s largest mosque, and prominent Muslims within, may have had clandestine links with proscribed Pakistani sectarian groups”

      The tried and tested fearmongering sales pitch for ever-increasingly invasive surveillance achieves its goal, once again. (The phrase “may have” is rarely, if ever taken much notice of in such statements).

      • bevin

        Agreed any such putative links pale to insignificance compared with the myriad connections between the Government, the Security services, theIr Gulf equivalents and terrorist militias such as Al Qaida.
        Those are the connections that ought to worry gulls whether in Scotland or elsewhere.

      • Republicofscotland


        Ordinarily I wouldn’t read to much into such a story, but the old guard, (conservative/ moderate) at Scotland’s largest mosque in Glasgow, have been overthrown, by a more radical forthright group.

        Imam Rehman from Scotland’s largest mosque, has also allegedly praised the killer of the governor of Punjab, the killer was executed earlier this year.

        Imam Rehman reoprtedly said of the execution of the murderer.

        “I cannot hide my pain today. A true Muslim was punished for doing which [sic] the collective will of the nation failed to carry out.”

        • John Spencer-Davis

          This was discussed quite a bit a couple of threads back, although I can’t now find it. It was chilling to read the judgement of the Supreme Court of Pakistan on the killer’s appeal.

          • Pan

            Would be interested in reading that thread. Bit pushed for time though (to spend searching) so if you (or anyone) can post a link to the relevant page… TIA

    • N_

      One of the best bits of this article is that “The police spokesperson said that they had an obligation to check if criminal actions were involved.”

      So if the members of a radical group want to overload the resources of the Swedish police, all they’ve got to do is to phone the police and say that someone has farted at them. Then the constabulary has an obligation to come round and check, right? Ideally before the aroma has dissipated.

      If any Swedish officials or influential types are reading this, look, you did well for five minutes by talking about the Israeli organ trade in response to the piracy against the Arctic Sea vessel, OK? Credit to you for that. But for fuck’s sake, since then! Your shit-eating grins aren’t attractive to anyone!

      • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

        The performance of the Swedish police in dealing with the demise of black, Moderate politician Alexander Bengtsson’s demise is even more shocking.

        The young opponent of racism,homophobia, Nazism and communism who would no longer just sit idly by while threatened was found dead in a burnt out car after having gone missing for a week, and the police announce there is apparently nothing suspicious in his death.

        • N_

          Hi Trowbridge, I hadn’t heard of that one. What was he looking at too closely? My guess would be the weapons sector (Bofors); perhaps the Arctic Sea affair? Sweden is owned by one family, the Wallenbergs. If you can distil the Bengtsson case into a few sentences, I’d be interested.

      • Anon1

        You are extraordinary, N_

        You are simply unable to write anything without squeezing in a reference to Israel.

        • N_

          Well who wants to be ordinary, eh, Anon!? I’ll leave that to you in your poxy war room.

      • Pan

        “So if the members of a radical group want to overload the resources of the Swedish police, all they’ve got to do is to phone the police and say that someone has farted at them.”

        Love it – an innovative variant of the classic DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) Attack – the DDoS (Distributed Dispersal of Smells) Report.

  • RM

    It is true that corporate media are reporting “every tittle tattle of anonymous Blairite briefing against Corbyn” and lot less on theTory internal feuding. But the same media are also blanking the internal horse-trading, corrupt deals and imoral compromises which are Corbyn’s means of restoring party unity. This also is censorship.

    A divided party may cause much damage to its popularity rating, but a party whose unity is based on the accommodation of the criminal elements within it cannot be much more popular.

    • lysias

      So why don’t you provide us some links that will inform us of those corrupt deals?

          • lysias

            You’ll have to forgive me then for doubting the truth of your accusations. If you want to be believed, you should present evidence, or at least give a narrative of what your experiences have been.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out humbug!)

            For some people on here, “evidence” is just what they’ve read in a book hawking the latest conspiracy theory or revisionist version of historical events.

        • N_

          Hi RM, If you could post some details about these criminal elements that are being accommodated by Jeremy Corbyn’s unity operations, I think several of us here would be very interested to read about them.

          • Ben-Misogyny is my name

            Anyone? Eyes focused, ears attuned? This is how it’s done. It’s as though the football is is an estranged arena. ignored, just like a tree falling with no one to hear.

    • Herbie

      Both parties horribly divided.


      Grand coalition. Technocratic rule.

      In the national interest, of course.

      Must be expecting a war or financial calamity soon.

      • Habbabkuk (2016 will be a great year)

        Not necessarily, Herbie. Grand coalitions often come about through other circumstances (cf the German examples). And in several European coalitions are the norm.

      • Habbabkuk (2016 will be a great year)

        Moreover, Herbie, grand coalitions do not equate to technocratic rule, as your post seems to suggest.

        But perhaps you were just being more elliptical than usual.

    • N_

      No it’s not censorship. Censorship is when the authorities only let material be published once they’ve checked it and redacted out what they don’t like.

      But I do like it when attention is directed to criminal elements, including in the context of political parties and their unitedness or their divisions.

      Step forward John Mills, chairman of Labour Leave and Labour’s biggest donor. He’s the brother of Silvio Berlusconi’s mate David Mills, he was married to the late Director of Public Prosecutions Barbara Mills, and he’s the brother-in-law of Tessa “Squeaky-Clean Olympics”Jowell.

      Talking of family connections, oh how so few have ever shown an interest in Tony Blair’s brother William Blair, a barrister who has specialised in international banking and who it is reasonable to suppose is more familiar than most with effective structures for money-laundering.

      • Habbabkuk (2016 will be a great year)

        I thought that we had got rid of guilt by family association when Mary left this blog?

      • lysias

        Sir William James Lynton Blair is now a judge, having been appointed to the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court on Feb. 4, 2008.

        His Wikipedia entry says about his career in the years immediately preceding that appointment:

        From 2001 to 2008 he served, part-time, as a Chairman of the Financial Services and Markets Tribunal (Finsmat) and from 2003 to 2005 he was Chairman of the Commercial Bar Association (Combar). He was also Chairman of the International Monetary Law Committee of the International Law Association (2004) and of the Qatar Financial Centre Appeals Body (2006).

      • Ba'al Zevul

        Funny you should say that, N_. William Blair is centrally involved in divvying up Gaddafi’s/Libya’s sovereign wealth fund at the moment:

        And Private Eye has raised the matter this week. Speculation is mounting as to which party the next war in Libya will return to power, and get the loot. Big investment opportunity for global marketeers, obviously. As seen today:

        Tony’s legacy project?

        • fedup

          It really angers me how so many otherwise reasonably sensible people fell for the “Arab spring” line.


          The degrees of ossification is to the extent that even when the right phrases are being used, alas the wrong conclusions are reached! The seamless echo chamber, has brought about the mass three monkeys psychosis; see no evil (other then the prescribed one) hear no evil (other then the prescribed one) and say no evil (other then the prescribed one).

  • Hieroglyph

    Of course. It’s all part of the Screw Corbyn agenda. Anyone who thinks I am indulging in conspiracy theory should, you know, read the newspapers. Present the Tories with a united front, leak dubious claims from any old Blairites, shape polls accordingly. Oh, also totally ignore serious allegations of electoral fraud; I personally remain very sceptical indeed about the Tory ‘victory’ …

    We are now in a parlous situation. A few weeks ago, Gorgeous George linked to a DM article, which basically said It’s On: The Blairites were about to get their hands dirty, and take Corbyn out. However, since then, Corbyn’s polling has improved, to the point they are neck and neck, whilst JC himself, who’ll probably never get high rating in preferred PM stakes (a stupid poll anyway), continues to do pretty well at PMQ’s. So, the Blairites have no real reason to take Corbyn out. Does well at PMQ, isn’t a crook, and may be electable. What do they do now? Oh, they’ll try take him out anyway, probably this year, but laughably, they may well lose. Expect the focus of the corporate media to be laser-like when Labour internals get ugly, as I’m sure they will.

    As to the BBC, I no longer care. Scrap the fee, don’t scrap the fee, I’m not sure it matters much. In terms of jobs, I’d keep the fee, and I suppose scrapping the whole thing because of bias in political coverage is a bit draconian. But, the BBC seems just another tool in managing popular consent, so from a strictly leftism point of view, we need less of those not more. Whatever, it’s just a TV channel.

    • John Spencer-Davis

      Here’s the BBC on the bombing of the Kunduz hospital, as pointed out by Media Lens:

      “The US military has disciplined more than a dozen service members after an air strike on a Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) hospital in Afghanistan killed 42 people last year.

      The Pentagon has acknowledged that the clinic was targeted by mistake, but no personnel will face criminal charges.”

      That’s the BBC speaking, not the Pentagon. How about: “The Pentagon has CLAIMED that the clinic was targeted by mistake”?

      • lysias

        Some discipline. RT: ‘Disciplined’? Kunduz hospital bombing land ‘mainly administrative’ punishment for 12 US troops:

        Twelve US military personnel have been issued “administrative punishments” – but no criminal charges – over the bombing of Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz last year, officials revealed to media.

        . . .

        The punishments are mainly administrative, according to AP. In some cases the actions, such as letters of reprimand, were “tough enough” to hamper further promotion. But those disciplined reportedly were enlisted personnel and officers, none of them generals.

      • Pan

        John S-D – “How about: “The Pentagon has CLAIMED that the clinic was targeted by mistake”?”

        How about: “The Pentagon has BLATANTLY LIED that the clinic was targeted by mistake”?

        • John Spencer-Davis

          Of course, sane people can. I assume that you do not think that the President of MSF International is insane? She issued a statement to the effect that the facility had been deliberately bombed. She has given two possible reasons. The first is that it may have been believed that there were Taliban forces operating out of the hospital. The second is that injured Taliban combatants were being treated at the hospital.

          The evidence as it now stands is that the co-ordinates of the hospital were well known to the US military command, and that the hospital was bombed for more than an hour, while a log of a dozen telephone calls and messages from MSF to military liaison attempting to get the bombing stopped has been published. Such evidence as there is available at the moment, is heavily in favour of the hospital having been deliberately targeted.

          You point is therefore both wrong and irrelevant. The point is the bias of the BBC in favour of what the Pentagon has said, not what the Pentagon has actually said. Of course the Pentagon is going to say it was a mistake – what would anyone expect them to say? But both the current evidence and MSF suggest that it was not, and the BBC has a responsibility to take that point of view into account, not just report the Pentagon’s press releases like they are the Gospel.

          And now I suppose you’ll say I’m crazy, like everyone else on this forum who has the insolence to disagree with you and back that disagreement with evidence. “I don’t have to listen to your sources, I said you’d made things up before but now that you’ve proved you haven’t it’s the experts you are using who’ve just made things up instead, they’re just an echo chamber”, blah blah blah blah blah.

          • Martinned

            Not at all. I’m simply going to observe that MSF is evidently confused about the notion of innocent until proven guilty. That said, clearly the matter needs to be investigated, and the BBC should have reported MSF’s claims.

          • John Spencer-Davis

            MSF is going where the preponderance of evidence leads them. They are perfectly entitled to do that.

          • Pan

            Well done, John .. and thank you. I was too tired last night to write as fully as you have done.

            The whole thing is a complete disgrace … but sadly, not the least bit surprising.

          • John Spencer-Davis

            The evidence is that a protected space the co-ordinates of which were known to the bombers has been bombed.

          • John Spencer-Davis

            The evidence as it stands at the moment, is that the US knew exactly where the hospital was, and the US bombed the hospital. There are also possible motives for doing so. MSF are entitled to conclude that the US knew what it was doing. Presumption of innocence applies inside a courtroom, not outside of it. If X stabs Y, the police are entitled to proceed on the basis that X knew what he was doing, unless X can provide evidence to the contrary.

          • Martinned

            Like I said earlier, we agree that this matter needs to be investigated, and that there’s reasonable grounds for investigating. (As per your police analogy.) But that doesn’t change the fact that there is no evidence, as it stands, of anyone deliberately bombing anything.

            Meanwhile, we’ve lost Hans-Dietrich Genscher…

          • John Spencer-Davis

            Not true. Of course, the evidence is that the hospital was deliberately targeted. It was bombed, was it not? And the US knew where the hospital was, did it not? On the contrary, there is no evidence that it was not deliberately bombed.

            We’ll have to agree to disagree on this.

          • lysias

            If you don’t like “has claimed” because it implies that the Pentagon lied, isn’t “has acknowledged” equally objectionable, because it implies that the Pentagon was telling the truth? Neutral wordings like “has said” could have been used.

        • Pykrete

          Hmmm … no sane person …

          From Slate …
          … based on the accounts of Defense Department sources, cockpit recordings from the AC-130 gunship involved in the incident “reveal that the crew actually questioned whether the airstrike was legal.”

          • Pykrete

            Indeed … unfortunately

            The recordings have not been released publicly or even to the members of Congress who received a classified briefing on the incident.

          • Martinned

            O, you don’t have to convince me that US law on executive privilege, national security privilege, political question doctrine, etc. is messed up.

      • Habbabkuk (commenters, lertn a little modesty!)

        The Pentagon had admitted something, Mr Spencer-Davis; that is the meaning of “acknowledged”.

        Why on earth then should the BBC, when reporting this admission by the Pentagon, use the word “claimed”?

        For the BBC to use the word “claimed” as you propose would give the impression that the BBC was suggesting that the Pentagon was lying and that the bombing was deliberate and not a mistake.

        It is fairly clear that you think the Pentagon was lying, but could you explain why you feel the BBC should suggest the same thing?

  • Punklin

    What’s with “serenely”? Some of us canvassing like dervishes to max the pro Indy vote and isolate unionism. No let-up whatever the polls say. Like Dracula we must put stake through the heart of labour if our country is to progress.

      • Republicofscotland

        Unless of course you are Kezia Dugdale the branch manager of Labour in Scotland. Who’s now back tracked over supporting the Name Persons scheme, Dugdale who supported the SNP policy now has jumped ship (again remember (APD) and aligned her party’s position with the Tories. Well I suppose no one should be surprised that Labour are once again in bed with the Tories.

        It’s Dugdale’s second policy reversal in the last 24 hours, after she abandoned plans for a £100 pounds rebate for low earners, being asked to pay extra income tax under her tax hike proposals.

        In reality like the LibDems and the Tories, Labour in Scotland can offer extravagant polices safe in the knowledge that they’ll never ever need to find funding to impliment them, because the incompitent unionist triumvirate will never weild power in Scotland not for a very long time.

  • RobG

    The latest episode of The Empire Files: Understanding Marxism and Socialism with Richard Wolff…

    Those familiar with Richard Wolff will know that he often talks at length. What I like about his recent interview on the Empire Files is that he is very succinct, and explains his views very clearly.

    I add the usual caveat, in that I don’t agree with everything that Wolff says. I link to this interview purely as a counterpoint to the total bullshit put out by the MSM and the army of trolls.

  • Andy

    Ronnie Corbett’s death was headline on the 5PM Radio Four BBC news show. Not the 1000s of jobs lost at the steel plants .

    • RobG

      Ronnie Corbett was a well-known KGB agent, whose short stature was used to facilitate the election of Putin. Corbett was actually a neo-Marxist and his ‘chair talks’ in the 1970s were used to subliminally push the communist agenda on school children, SCHOOL CHILDREN.

      (Just kidding – because previous posts of mine in this ‘free world’ have been zapped)

      Gawd bless Ronnie Corbett, who may or may not have been a double or even triple agent who really worked FOR CHINA.

      CHIIINA! we’re all paranoid loons, so let’s bomb Chiiina.

      In fact, let’s bomb anyone who vaguely disagrees with Wall Street and the City of London.

      I just love the smell of bad jokes in the morning…

      • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

        Right, Rob G, and why is there no discussion of Washington trying to round up cronies in the Far East by not inviting Putin’s Russia to a conference on North Korea?

        Instead of trying to patch things up with Putin over the ouster of Ukraine’s Yanukovich, and the chaos in Syria, Ash Carter is plowing ahead with its pivot to the Far East, though North Korea shares a common border with Russia.

        Just more of American imperialism, using a divide and rule policy to promote its interests.

          • lysias

            Did you read the New York Times editorial?

            Corruption has been pervasive in Ukraine since independence, fed by close-knit ties between politicians and oligarchs and a weak justice system. The protests in 2014 that led to the removal of President Viktor Yanukovych were largely fueled by popular fury at his monumental corruption and abuse of power. Yet his overthrow has yet to show results.

            (Emphasis added.)

            I don’t think that amounts to saying that corruption, although reduced, is still present. I think what it amounts to saying is that corruption is unreduced.

      • Habbabkuk (commenters, lertn a little modesty!)

        RobG – has business picked up at your French gite? I do hope so as I should not wish you to have to forego rare vintages in favour of gros pinard (NB to our Transatlantic Friend – the last two words are French)

  • apol

    from Zero Hedge

    << Erdogan has boasted that he is proud of boldly blackmailing EU leaders into paying him protection money.

    Erdogan's threats were almost criminally sinister: "… the EU will be confronted with more than a dead boy on the shores of Turkey. There will be 10,000 or 15,000. How will you deal with that?"

    According to the agreement, 80 million Turkish citizens will have visa-free access to the European Union.

    The nightmare scenario for a desperate EU is that no matter how much it bows to extortionist demands from Turkey, the migrant crisis will continue to grow. Even if Turkey closes down all migrant routes from Turkey into Europe, refugees could take new routes through North Africa or the Caucasus.

    Meanwhile, 800,000 migrants are currently on Libyan territory waiting to cross the Mediterranean, according to French Defense Minister Jean-Yves le Drian.

    "We can open the doors to Greece and Bulgaria anytime and we can put the refugees on buses … So how will you deal with refugees if you don't get a deal? Kill the refugees?" This was the question Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in true mafia style, asked European Council President Donald Tusk and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker on November 16, 2015 in a closed meeting in Antalya, Turkey, where the three met after the G20 summit.

    While Tusk and Juncker have both declined to comment on whether the meeting took place, Erdogan has since then boasted that he is proud of the leaked minutes of the meeting, where he boldly blackmails EU leaders into paying him protection money.

    Erdogan's threats were almost criminally sinister: "… the EU will be confronted with more than a dead boy on the shores of Turkey. There will be 10,000 or 15,000. How will you deal with that?"

    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan (left) has boasted that he is proud of blackmailing EU leaders, including European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker (right), into paying him protection money.
    Finally, feeding into the denial/ignorance of the European elites, who were at that time reeling from the Paris terror attacks that had occurred just three days earlier, Erdogan — who himself has hosted and supported terrorist groups from Hamas to Hezbollah to ISIS — told his European colleagues, "The attacks in Paris is [sic] all about poverty and exclusion. These people… will continue to be terrorists in Europe".

    The leaked minutes furthermore showed Tusk and Juncker pleading with Erdogan, almost begging him to see reason, pathetically telling him that the EU has been treating him "as a prince in Brussels."

    "Like a prince?" Erdogan retorted, "Of course. I'm not representing a third world country." He also told Juncker, who is the former prime minister of Luxembourg, not to compare Luxembourg to Turkey: "Luxembourg is just like a town in Turkey."

    • deepgreenpuddock

      I am uncertain how much credence to give to zerohedge. It has made many predictions ,most of which have not been reliable or borne out by events.

      However one tiny bit caught my eye.

      “The attacks in Paris is [sic] all about poverty and exclusion. These people… will continue to be terrorists in Europe”.

      Apparently uttered by Erdogan-and i would have to say that I more or less agree-in the big picture sense-that terrorism is an asymmetric response to overwhelming asymmetry of power and privilege (both military and political) and a response to exclusion.
      While religion is certainly important- inmost respects it is a red herring used to distract from deeper and more fundamental problems. It is a rallying device, and a psychological refuge but it has only so much leverage, that pales when placed against the realities of life-such as opportunity, education, and economic prosperity, and peace and personal development through a predictable and connected lifestyle. To be excluded from these things is to be excluded from life itself and it seems little wonder that people who feel that level of oppression regard their life as expendable for a (spurious) cause.
      i have to say that I think that the religious connections are probably less important than economic ones.
      We see a huge economic asymmetry between the Middle East and North Africa and Europe.
      Asymmetries abound. Even internally to a place like Saudi Arabia-where there is an oppressive, corrupt, privileged religious elite, and a largish population of people not quite part of the economic/religious/political benefits(i.e excluded)-although there may be religious affiliations and systems that have some cohesive effect-but one suspects that such connections are fragile in comparison to economic pressures and strains. Saudi seems like a dangerous place to me- I don’t mean the danger of oppressive regimes, but the tensions created by such economic differences-and it does not seem so strange to me that the 9/11 terrorists were largely recruited within that milieu of discontent and dissent.
      There are some serious question marks about a de-facto right of residence (no visas) of the 80 million odd
      Turkish people. I am not sure about this but my understanding is that a visa system provides some control over length of stay and a record of who is present at any time. This seems to me to invite even greater chaos and potential for tension and if there is anything that needs to be reduced it is the sense of chaos and tension that is engulfing some parts of Europe. Could someone sketch out how that would work?
      In the context of the refugee crisis it seems that the whole thrust of western policy has failed in a quite serious and dramatic way. P{olicy for the last 30 years has been about attempts to maintain a privileged western position in relation to such factors as energy consumption and living standards, in order to sustain the technical systems that we all ‘enjoy’ and which are the mainstays of our economic life. These are also quite seriously asymmetric and it seems
      inevitable (to me ) that this inequity will have huge implications. The incompetence of the ‘west’ (i mean the US mainly) lies in the decision from the late eighties to apply a model of suppressing dissent by warfare and military means, and the propagation of oppressive elements within areas such as Afghanistan in order to achieve short term objectives, which in turn has empowered a fundamentalist religious movement to resist the arbitrary reward of individuals, of no merit perceived by their own people, and promoted only for their ability in forming alliances with external forces (and sources of power) such as the US.
      The more I think about the position that is now unfolding, the more I sense that the possibility of resolution of intractable problems is receding. We are actively making things worse.

      • Pan

        Thank you, deepgreenpuddock, for your very thoughtful and interesting comment.


        Re: “While religion is certainly important- inmost respects it is a red herring used to distract from deeper and more fundamental problems. It is a rallying device, and a psychological refuge but it has only so much leverage, that pales when placed against the realities of life-such as opportunity, education, and economic prosperity…”

        I think you (and hopefully others) will find the following very interesting …

        “Cutting the Fuse – The Explosion of Global Suicide Terrorism and How to Stop It”

        A talk by Robert Pape, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago

        Duration: 1hr 21m

        Viewable here on YouTube:

        Direct download link to mp4 video file (via KeepVid):

        (size of file is 185MB)

      • Habbabkuk (commenters, lertn a little modesty!)

        “I am uncertain how much credence to give to zerohedge. It has made many predictions ,most of which have not been reliable or borne out by events.”

        I would give it very little and the fact that it keeps being referenced by some of the Eminences and their hangers-on lends weight to my doubts.

        Is not “zerohedge” always trying to get people to buy gold and does it not offer its services in that regard?

        • Anon1

          Two further things to note about Zero Hedge:

          It is always predicting catastrophic, end-of-the-world scenarios, particularly regarding Western economies, that never come to pass.

          It’s output almost exactly matches what the Russian state media propaganda outlets like RT put out.

        • fwl

          Yeah it certainly seems to have a Russian doom and gloom sell up and buy gold and sell short flavour, but it nonetheless had run some interesting stories eg sale of IS oil via Turkey wad one. Prefer it to RT (though you can form your view as to whether that constitutes praise).

    • N_

      What a pleasant guy the Erdogan clan’s front man is, eh!

      Meanwhile, 800,000 migrants are currently on Libyan territory waiting to cross the Mediterranean, according to French Defense Minister Jean-Yves le Drian.

      Let’s be clear here. While most of us here bemoan how so many innocent people are losing their homes and having no option but to flee thousands of miles from the warzone, uncertain what might happen next to themselves and their families, certain forces are rubbing their hands with glee at the “crisis” and are planning to escalate it.

      The “migrant crisis” is going to get a lot bigger.

      I am going to make a prediction based on this analysis: Tunisia will be next for collapse.

      In last week’s Daesh (“ISIS”) attack on the barracks in Ben Guerdan in the south of Tunisia, the headchoppers brought trucks hundreds of miles across the desert from inside Tunisia, not from across the Libyan border. The other side of the Libyan border isn’t controlled by Daesh, and they have little strength or capability there.

      The line about border security is mainly bullshit to justify (not to the “public”, but to others) the SAS presence in the area, and in preparation for wider war. The Daesh attack was audacious. It wasn’t terrorist but conventional. They nearly took the town.

      Nobody from Europe in their right mind will go on holiday to Tunisia this year. Cue a rise in unemployment which is already high, and more recruitment by Daesh. That’s if “Tunisia” even exists by the summer.

  • Ionel Boeru

    Perhaps the press is taking the long view. In a few years the Tories’ agonal cannibalism will seem no more important than the schism of the Ligachyov Leninists: in each case merely a minor epiphenomenon of state collapse.

  • Alan

    Jeremy Corbyn came to Milton Keynes on Thursday. Tickets sold out within hours of going on sale:

    Jeremy Corbyn was given a warm welcome to Milton Keynes today as more than 600 people packed The Ridgeway Centre in Old Wolverton.

    The Beeb glosses over the number who attended, or would have attended had a bigger venue been booked. The Beeb loves the Tories.

    Did you know that the word Tory originates from the Irish word toruighe, meaning a ‘plunderer’, ‘one of a class of robbers known for outrages and savage cruelty’?

    • Pan

      “Did you know that the word Tory originates from the Irish word toruighe, meaning a ‘plunderer’, ‘one of a class of robbers known for outrages and savage cruelty’?”

      I for one did not. But the OED appears to confirm this etymology.

      [Also from the OED] – Gladstone (in a letter to Lord Acton in 1885) wrote: “Tory democracy’.. is demagogism, only a demagogism .. living upon the fomentation of angry passions, and still in secret as obstinately attached as ever to the evil principle of class interests.”

      Let no-one defame Craig Murray’s blog by implying it lacks educational value.

      • deepgreenpuddock

        I sort of laughed at the ‘Tory’ etymology- I am sure there is only the most remote connection to the other rendition of Tory- Toerag/toruighe? Close for sure but probably coincidence.I understood Tory to mean ‘a bog dweller’ which may be related to ‘Troll’ – some kind of savage creature that lurks in inaccessible places, and breaks out of it to plunder the locals.
        My sense of the meaning of Tory may be related to the process of ‘Inclosure’ which proceeded from about the start of the 17th century through to the end of the 19th century, when common land was simply taken over by the Tory land owners and the great majority of people were excluded by force, and by application of draconian property laws (hanged for poaching a rabbit). So ‘plunderer’ seems apt.

      • Node

        I believe I’ve read somewhere that “Tory” is a contracted form of the word “discriminatory.” Or was it “manipulatory” …. um, it might have been “predatory” ….. definitely wasn’t “satisfactory” …..

        • fedup

          Node it is a factor of the tripartite: manipulaTory + discriminaTory + predaTory

          Those afflicted ought to be sectioned due to their psychotic personalties and subject to rigorous regimen of drugs and therapy until once again they become a standard issue human being.

          • fedup

            @Anon1 April 1, 2016 at 15:10

            If you have nothing to say, put a sock in it!

            This is the best zersetzen you lot can come up with?

            Pitiful wankers!

    • Habbabkuk (commenters, lertn a little modesty!)

      Did you know the Irish word “Taisoeach”** (commonly translated as “Prime Minister”) actually means “Leader”?

      As, of course, did “Fuehrer” and “Duce”.


      ** almost certainly misspelt but you know what I mean.

    • Habbabkuk (commenters, lertn a little modesty!)

      Are you informing us of that with approval, disapproval, or merely out of your wish to keep posting away?

    • jake

      With a Presidential election coming up and doubt about whether the foreign policy proposals of some of the candidates are in our national interest, should we , at this time, be exporting weapons grade nuclear material to the US military?

  • bevin

    The derivation of the word Tory is matched by that of the word Whig which refers to a very similar occupational group in Scotland.
    With respect to the gaelic word Taoiseach (whose similarity to other words in German and Italian sends shivers down fascist spines) it has always been a problem in England. There was a famous occasion when a reporter for The Times or the Daily Mirror datelined a story, (headlined Irish Prime Minister’s Warning, or some such thing),
    The Teashop in Dingle.

    • lysias

      My mother came from a village some five miles outside Dingle. Very beautiful country it is, and Dingle is a picturesque town.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        And I do like the very Irish way of saying that : “very beautiful country it is”.

        I must hand it to you – you do take care over your story 🙂

      • bevin

        It is indeed. And five miles outside Dingle is even more picturesque. Some great books about the place: Thomas O’Cronin, Peig Sayers etc.
        But now I come to think of it the town in the story was actually Tralee.

  • glenn_uk

    Nice little eulogy on Radio-4 right now for the Mossad chief General Meir Dagan, who – it says – is credited with the murders, sorry, assassinations, I mean _targeted killing_ of Iranian nuclear scientists. An uncritical summary of his noble work followed, with repeats of the lie that Iran was determined to “wipe Israel from the Earth”. A jocular note that “for once, Iranian accusations of an Israel plot might actually be true!” was included, along with giving the General a posthumous opportunity to make sure everyone is clear on the “Palestinian question” and so on and so forth for several minutes.

    Anything controversial about this murderer and his racist views? Not a bit of it. The obituary on Ronnie Corbitt was more critical.

    • Anon1

      Khamenei quoting Khomeini:

      “The cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region”

      Sounds pretty close to me.

      In any case, there are (or at least were) signs in English all over Iran calling for Israel to be wiped off the map. Not least in the barracks of the Revolutionary Guard.

      • lysias

        Should the U.S. have assassinated people in the Soviet Union because Khrushchev told us, “We will bury you”, and Soviet Communism doctrine proclaimed that capitalist democracy was doomed to perish as a result of its inner contradictions?

        • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

          No, because it is clear that Krushchev was talking bollocks – typical Soviet loudmouth talk in reaction to the realisation that the USSR would never catch up with the US in any way.

          I am less convinced that these lunatic Iranian clerics did not mean what they said.

        • lysias

          Later events have, I think, shown that the Communists were right about capitalist democracy being doomed in the long run because of its contradictions. It’s just been taking rather longer than the Communists expected. And since Communism has already perished because of its own contradictions, it’s unclear what, if anything, will replace capitalist democracy. (It’s possible that capitalist democracy will destroy the world in its death throes.)

          So I think Khrushchev and the Soviet Communists meant what they said. And I think it would have been incredibly irresponsible to start assassinating Soviet Russians because of that.

          As it has been irresponsible for Israel to kill Iranian scientists and military figures.

          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

            Immoral perhaps, perhaps also unnecessary, but why irresponsible? Please specify if you can.

  • Republicofscotland

    I’m rather disappointed that Vojislav Seselij, has been declared a free man by the Hague.

    On all nine counts of crimes against humanity that included murder, persecution and expulsions of non-Serb civilians in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia and Serbia, the ICTY trial chamber concluded that he was a mere politician, and not a war criminal.

    A politician with somewhat unpleasant extreme right wing views, but not directly responsible for any criminal acts these views may have inspired his followers to engage in.

    Presiding judge, Jean-Claude Antonetti, at the Hague said,

    “The propaganda of nationalist ideologies is not criminal.”

    But Vojislav Seselj was not on trial for propaganda, and judge Antonetti certainly must know this, if he bothered to read the indictment. Seselj was on trial for his acts.

    According to this site Seselj committed unspeakable atrocities, if that is true then one wonders, why a similar sentence that was handed down to Radovan Karadzic, hasn’t been imposed upon Seselj.

    • Martinned

      Simply put, because Karadzic was in command of troups carrying out genocide, and Seselj was not.

      But yes, I guess the ICTY is a corrupt bunch of unreliable lawyers unless they’re not. (See Falklands thread.)

      • Republicofscotland

        “Simply put, because Karadzic was in command of troups carrying out genocide, and Seselj was not.”



        I suppose your latter point could be debatable.

        He (Seseji) had a fully armed and organised militia, and referred to himself as its General – which he sent out to implement his murderous plans.

        And for each of these, and many, many other examples of what Seselj actually did and not just said, the ICTY trial chamber had rebuttals. For the charge of ethnic cleansing as in Seselj’s actual words “we need to cleanse Bosnia of Muslims”, the judges concluded that he was just “galvanising the Serb forces”.

        For the charge of inciting war crimes in Vukovar by ordering his troops to “spare no one”, the judges concluded that he was “lifting his troops’ morale”. For the charge that he was sending a volunteer militia to fight on behalf of rebel Serb forces in Croatia, the judges concluded that they were sent to Croatia “to protect the Serbs”.

        For the charge that his troops forcibly expelled all Croats from a village in northern Serbia, the judges concluded that Seselj’s militiamen were just looking for accommodation for Serbian refugees.

        For the charge that Seselj organised population transfers in Bosnia and Serbia, removing non-Serb civilians from Serb controlled territory, the judges concluded that these civilians must have left on their own volition, to live with their ethnic kin.

        • Martinned

          Absolutely debatable. I have nothing resembling an opinion about whether the man is actually guilty, I just sought to summarise the Court’s judgement.

      • lysias

        Bevin, that Diane Johnstone piece reminded me that I once attended a talk by General Michael Rose in which he indicated that he thought that the shelling of Sarajevo had been done by the Bosniak Muslims.

  • Republicofscotland

    Meanwhile I’m utterly disappointed with Jacob Zuma’s tenure as South African president. Mr Zuma has syphoned off millions of dollars to build his luxurious palatial home. Zuma has failed to pay back the money a ruling heard af the Constitutional Court, Zuma is already fending off multiple accusations of misconduct, unsurprisingly the ANC still support Zuma 100%.

    It sould be nice to see a president of South Africa, that didn’t have ties to the ANC.

    • Martinned

      Yes, but that’s nothing new. The desirability of having a non-ANC president was already clear when Zuma became president in 2009, and definitely when he ran for re-election in 2014. Fortunately the Democratic Alliance comes closer with every election…

      • Ben-Misogyny is my name

        You seem preoccupied with knocking over bowling pins. Perhaps you could set some up so we could return the favor or are you risk-averse like your paramours.

      • Republicofscotland

        I agree Zuma’s unpresidential like behaviour, will turn voters away from the ANC, and future presidential candidates, and towards the Democratic Alliance, who incidently are beginning impeachment proceedings.

    • Habbabkuk (support Presidents Barack and Francois)

      It would also be nice to see a leader of a BRICs country who was not corrupt.

      “President Dilma”, as Lysiais recently referred to her with curious Brazilian familiarity, refers.

  • giyane

    I watched a clip of Juncker desperately trying to kiss Erdogan, as if Turkey’s latest accomplishments, the creation of IS, the evacuation of Syria, and the NATO attack on a Russian jet, were deserving of a full-blown public embrace.

    Political Islam has been defeated, but don’t tell fedup and his Daesh friends or they’ll be queueing up to kiss the loser as well.

  • Republicofscotland

    I’m rather disappointed, by the extreme secular/religious teaching that promote ethnic hatred, in this instance it’s alleged that young Muslim minds are programmed not to integrate with British society, and that the Western lifestyle is somewhat appalling and undesirable.

    Unsurprisingly the J**ish community are the main focal point of the alleged extreme teachings.

  • RobG

    There’s been some civil unrest here in France this week. As far as I’m aware none of it has been reported by the USUK presstitutes (in case it gives the plebs any ideas). What they are mainly protesting about in France is the state of emergency, brought in by the 13th November terror attacks in Paris, and the encroaching police state. Here’s some footage of a demo that took place yesterday in Rouen…

    There’s similar stuff going on all across Europe, and in particular in Spain and Greece.

    But in the UK you want to ‘Clean for the Queen’.


    • Habbabkuk (support Presidents Barack and Francois)

      They are protesting about the proposed revisions of the Code du Travail, you fool.

      Not about the state of emergency.

      Are you one of those British expats who doesn’t understand French?


      BTW, no frontier controls on French road borders yesterday.

        • RobG

          Go look-up the definition of ‘morality’.

          And then you and the rest of the psychos can perhaps look at yourselves in the mirror.

          (I know I’m wasting my time with this one)

      • RobG

        I’m quite aware of the other previsions, Habba, but only people like you will say that it’s not all wrapped into the state of emergency.

        Because that’s what you’re paid to say.

  • Republicofscotland

    North Korean despot Kim Jong-Un has been making threats of upping its nuclear programme after the US and its allies carried out military exercises in the region.

    The murderous dictator can make those kind of threats (including that DPRK) is now in a semi-state of war) because China relies on North Korea as a buffer zone to Western ideology.

    If ever a nation needed a regime change, it’s NK.

    • Anon1

      Some of the commenters here admire NK hugely. I remember reading a eulogy to Kim from someone, probably Bevin, claiming the country was completely misunderstood and was, in fact, very successful with a modern and progressive outlook unsurpassed in the West. The capitalists and their lickspittle running dogs in the media had it all wrong, apparently.

      • bevin

        Your memory fails you. We knew that of course.
        I have no particular affection for North Korea but in order to understand why its governments act in the way that they do it is necessary to understand the country’s history, both before 1950 and after.
        One of the problems that we face is that people such as yourself appear to believe everything that you read in the Press about North Korea No doubt there are people in North Korea who do the same and believe everything that they read in the Press about the USA or South Korea.
        The problem is conformists who dare not think critically and luxuriate in the warmth of Establishment approved conventional wisdom. You are one of them.

    • Habbabkuk (not better late than never)


      Your latest posts – taking a swipe at the ANC, China, North Korea and so on – lead me to think that you are engaged in a process of establishing your bona fides vis a vis certain bodies.

      Too late, too late…… 🙂

      • Republicofscotland

        Not in the slightest, I criticise both West and East, and anyone nation inbetween who deserves it.

        • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

          Are you sure of that? Your posting record would indicate a certain focus on the US, the UK and the West in general, surely?

          • Republicofscotland

            I live in the West, Im therefore entitled to hold it to more accountability, I also expect higher standards from its leaders, as their decisions affect the lives, (including yours and mine) of millions if not billions of people.

            If l lived in the East or Middle East, I would expect no less.

            You however are another matter, with your lack of criticism of Western events and actions of its leaders. I would therefore say I’m far more balanced and reasonable than you and your skewed outlook.

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