Compulsory Zionism 180


In view of the current outbreak of compulsory Zionism, I thought that I might make certain my own position is quite clear, as delivered to an audience of 250,000 people a few years ago

gazademo

UPDATE The Blairite witch-hunt of Palestinian advocates has of course accelerated since I posted this. I am quite certain that Ken Livingstone is no racist of any kind.

However the subject of any collusion between certain Zionists and Nazis had been a banned topic on this blog for years, because it is a subject of no modern relevance, and is attractive to actual anti-semites who I do not wish to have making comments. If you wish to discuss whether or not Ken Livingstone was factually correct, please do it somewhere else.


180 thoughts on “Compulsory Zionism

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      • Shatnersrug

        It’s just the Zombi Gardian and BBC following Peter Mandelson’s spin doctoring – haven’t you noticed that these stories got the front pages the day after any embarrassing new for the government?

  • Anon1

    Are they protesting the 48 Christians hacked to death by Islamists in Nigeria the other day?

    • craig Post author

      Kind of you to give a cue to point out the sheer scale of the massacre in Gaza. Plus the Gaza massacre was carried out by a government. That was the most pathetic bit of “whatabouterry” imaginable.

      • glenn_uk

        Not only by a government, but one treated as a most special and favoured ally of our own government. Could we remain friends with a man we knew to beat his wife on a regular basis? I imagine not. But our country is officially good friends of another with the most hideous record of abuse, ethnic cleansing, violation of International Law, officially state sanctioned racism, theft, murder, wanton destruction and oppression.

        Nice friends to have. And we’re known by the company we keep.

        • fred

          If your friend beats his wife then surely it is better to remain his friend. You could try and persuade him to get psychiatric help, help with an underlying cause, marriage counselling or convince him there is no hope for the relationship and he should be considering a divorce.

          Once your friend becomes your enemy you have no influence over him and he will continue to beat his wife.

          • Republicofscotland

            Fred.

            Unless of course he’s a member of the SNP and a nationalist. ?

          • K Crosby

            Dumping a friend on moral grounds can be difficult, which is why it is necessary. I’ve dumped one friend for racism (like the song) one for wife-beating and one for being a social worker; it’s why I’m still friends with my conscience, which makes me a much more attractive person than I would be. Try it.

          • fred

            “Unless of course he’s a member of the SNP and a nationalist. ?”

            I spend a lot of time trying to get Nationalists to realise the error of their ways and explain to them why what they are doing is wrong.

          • Republicofscotland

            “I spend a lot of time trying to get Nationalists to realise the error of their ways and explain to them why what they are doing is wrong”

            _______________

            At your age Fred, you can’t afford to waste time on fanciful dreams. ?

      • N_

        It comes onto “Anon1’s” hasbara feed and he cuts and pastes it, to do his bit for his side’s war effort. He couldn’t give a shit about Christians in Nigeria. He couldn’t even give a shit if they weren’t schwartzers.

      • Anon1

        No the hard left are silent on the daily atrocities carried out by extremist Muslims. There are no protests. They are totally obsessed with Israel (Jews?). The Gaza “massacre” could have been avoided had civilian infrastructure such as schools and hospitals not been deliberately used by Hamas to chalk up more dead Palestinian civilians in their propaganda war against Israel, lapped up by idiots in the West.

  • Andrew MacGregor

    Excellent speech, Mr Murray.

    The constant push by the media and establishment to promote the interests of a foreign country ahead of the interests of the UK or the lives of a brutally oppressed & occupied people, is somewhat disturbing. On many levels those political representatives who are pushing this agenda are in my opinion not only morally reprehensible but are Traitors to the nation they represent. Their backing of Israeli crimes is in direct conflict with the criteria of their UN membership, their EU membership and their membership of the ICC.
    Zionists are from all backgrounds and not just Judaism, and Israel has Christian and Muslim citizens as well, almost 20% of the population is Muslim.
    The conflating of being anti-Zionist and Anti-Israel with Anti-Semitism is a disgraceful attempt to suppress dissent about Israeli abuses of those in the Occupied Territories, not only the Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank and in Israel, but also the Syrians in the Golan and the Lebanese in the supposed de-militarised zone.
    Make no mistake, the big current push over Corbyn and the BDS campaign is going to be used by Israel to implement a process where the OT’s become Israel. The U.K. Will be complicit in that, fully complicit in what amounts to crimes against humanity.

  • Mark Russell

    I watched Baroness Neuberger and Lord Levy on Newsnight (27/4) who suggest there is no difference between antisemitism, antizionism and any criticism of Israel as a whole. Can anyone enlighten what semitism and Zionism actually are and why any commentary on either is now considered distasteful?

    • craig Post author

      There is indeed a very organised attempt to conflate opposition to Israel with anti-Semitism.

      I am not going to permit your proposed semantic discussion of Zionism and anti-Semitism as it always ends up attracting actual anti-semites to the thread.

      • Ba'al Zevul

        The Naz Shah incident suggests a coherent effort to remove Corbyn and re-establish Blairism. Levy’s been stirring it for a couple of weeks now – smearing the hard left is rather easier than responding to its take on the economy. Also, as has been observed before, the perceived existence of antisemitism in a UK party (never mind EDL!) helps to validate the spurious narrative of Israel as a place of refuge.

        George Galloway goes a good deal further in criticising Naz Shah’s demonisation, despite there being no love whatever lost between them personally. The medium is IMO suspect, but the message is atypically well-presented:

        http://ahtribune.com/religion/856-naz-shah-anti-semitism.html

        • D-Majestic

          A most interesting and well-written piece, and many thanks for the link. Clearly we are observing some attempt at an anti-Corbyn coup. The amount of total unknowns trolling the newspaper comments on this matter is truly astounding and deeply suspect.

    • AdrianD

      They were repeatedly referred to as ‘leading peers’ this morning on the Today programme (although this had changed to ‘leading Jewish peers’ by the 9am headlines), so their opinions really must be very important indeed.

      I had no idea that there were any gradations of peer – or on what ground the BBC based these ratings on, but I’m sure that if their views weren’t a stick to beat Corbyn and ‘the left’ with, they wouldn’t have been described as such.

  • Scott

    Craig,

    As I was watching the video, your mild comment about Zionism jumped out at me. It was actually surprising, and made me laugh out loud, as there are unwritten rules that you don’t say things like that if you want to get on in public life.

    And it made me think how tolerant Americans are of Donald Trump, and the truly outrageous comments he makes; simply because he attacks Muslims, Mexican immigrants and other groups, who do not have influential lobby groups to shout him down.

    If enough people in public life declare “Zionism is bullshit”, common sense will prevail hopefully, and the ability of these lobby groups and media shills to scare people into silence will be neutralised.

    Scott

    • Republicofscotland

      Brian.

      Nice pic, touching, I see the Ministry of Truths HQ in Scotland, in the background. ?

  • Christian Reilly

    I like Nornan Finkelstein’s idea that, to further the cause of peace and justice for the Palestinian people, we shouldn’t be asking questions like “Are you now, or have you ever been a Zionist?” – rather “Are you for or against international law?”. Because the meaning of Zionism has changed since its beginning, and because apologists for the occupation never miss an opportunity to try and make Israel mean “Jewish people” in people’s minds, it seems to me talking about international law is the most inclusive way to go forward. Thanks.

    • N_

      (I)t seems to me talking about international law is the most inclusive way to go forward

      How about headlining the fact that when the Israeli forces slaughter hundreds of civilians in Gaza, including many children, the US congressmen from both parties stand up and chant in unison that “Israel” has “the right to defend itself”. There were only a handful of exceptions, including Dennis Kucinich?

      Or, closer to home, the fact that hundreds of MPs in all major parties belong to “Friends of Israel” groups?

      There’s no fucking excuse for being a “Friend of Israel”, any more than there was in the 1930s for being a “friend of Nazi Germany”. Time to clear out the pigsheds.

  • glenn_uk

    Great stuff. Seems like there’s some McCarthyism going on – if one is now or has ever had the opinion that Israel was less than perfect, career over. Subservience to Israel is an essential qualification to exist in public life. Having once suggesting that Israel might reside in one country (America) rather than another (Palestine) is clearly an outrageous crime.

    Self censorship is going to take root, even mild criticism frowned upon or spoken in whispers, as Israel becomes yet more contemptuous and brazen in its abuse of human rights and International Law. Even a pretence at respect for the people subjugated by Israel can then be dropped.

  • Strategist

    Why is this row about the Labour Party happening now?
    Could it simply be about costing Sadiq Khan votes in the London Mayor election in one week’s time?
    Are the Blairites & the London establishment elite prepared to stoop that low in the attempt to fight against Jeremy Corbyn and the takeover of the party by the left?
    I don’t think it can be ruled out.

  • Mark Golding

    How can we trust a British government to be aware and respond to war crimes against the Palestinian people when within itself is creating a market for torture by using the excuse that if we received intelligence from torture, we are NOT complicit as long as we didn’t do the torture ourselves or encouraged the torture.

    We cannot and must not, have confidence, faith or hope that this government, whose commander-in-chief is PM David Cameron, will ring a bell that conveys it’s disgust, revulsion and shame brought on mankind by the murderous attack on the civilians of Gaza and Palestine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4dy9NFL4F4

  • BannerQueen

    Just another attempt to derail Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership of the Labour Party .. I wonder what “they” will come up with next. Just for the record I have NO truck with the two state solution either and further I do NOT believe the state of Israel should continue in its present form. Well that is my card marked as well……..

  • Silvio

    We should all be thankful that in our Western democracies the ballot box gives us an opportunity at election time to select from among the candidates’ differing proposed policies and opinions ( ok, with perhaps one notable exception ) which candidate we believe will be the best candidate and/or party to look out for the interests of our own country and its people, and assume the reins of power.

    • K Crosby

      Britain isn’t a democracy, it never has been and never will, with the fascist electoral system.

  • Jermynstreetjim

    Magnificent, monumental, and moving speech, ineluctably intimated in inspiring and impassioned invocation, Craig.

  • clansaorsa

    When I first began to read you – a year or so ago – I had doubts that your principal motivation might be self-agrandissment. Gradually they have been swept away and my admiration has grown. I am no anti-semetic and truly believe what happened to the Jews – and others – under Hitler was hideous. Equally I believe what’s happening in Palestine today at the hands of the children of Jewish survivors is equally hideous. I share your concerns about rampant capitalism and look forward to my country (although at the moment I do not live there) governing itself again. I believe the SNP made a serious misttake in not selecting you as a candidate. Keep it up, Craig, and if I can help in any way do not hesitate to get in touch.

  • John Murray

    Completely agree, at this point the two state solution (aka, red herring), even if implemented immediately (no chance), would result in at best three tiny Palestinian Bantustans, disconnected form each other and under full control and domination by an Israeli government. This would change the cruel, chauvinistic, apartheid policies and systematic daily violence not a jot.

  • Republicofscotland

    Just watched an explosive exchanged between Ken Livinstone and John Mann, on the Politics show.

    Andrew Neil also called out Mr Livingstone over anti-Semitism within the Labour party, unbelievably for 20 minutes, the show descended into what Hitler’s policies were towards the Jews.

    I’d advise everyone to watch that 20 minutes (on catch up if they can), Nick Clegg was also a guest on the show, who couldn’t quite believe what he was hearing.

    • Shatnersrug

      I can’t see it at the moment, what happened was Ken a numpty or did Neil and Man show themselves up?

      • Republicofscotland

        Shatnerrug.

        Well Ken was on trying to defend Naz Shah, and her rather self incriminating comments on social media. He did his best to play it down, but, it appears the spotlight swung around and onto him, as Andrew Neil, John Mann, and Ken, got into a threeway discussion, sometimes heated, over Hitler’s policies toeards the Jews.

        From there on in it just went down hill, and Mein Kampf and Kristallnacht found their way into the debate.

        I would say Ken, came out looking not too good as Andrew Neil dragged up several anti-Semitic comments from Labour members, comments, Ken just couldn’t defend.

        That’s probably why he has been suspended, Ken said I’ve always answered question posed to me by anyone, maybe next time, if there is a next time for Ken, he’ll think twice before answering.

        Joh Mann, just couldn’t hide his contempt towards Ken, which you could plainly see in his face.

        Nick Clegg fearing that he could end up caught in the crossfire, kept a low profile.

        • Shatnersrug

          It’s pathetic. What worries me most is this is running dangerously close to 1920s Weimar.

          The power that the Israeli establishment have over Britian and the US is deeply disturbing.

          I’m starting to question where it is I live – is summer turning to Autumn underneath us as it did in Germany?

          • Republicofscotland

            Shatnerrug.

            Naz Shah, really should’ve known better, posting comments that amount to anti-Semitism on social media, in here position, indeed in any position, is tantamount to stupidity.

            Ken Livingstone, thought he could play the whole affair down, but it backfired on him spectacularly. Now Ken looks like he’ll become a casualty of his own making.

        • Shatnersrug

          Yes I agree it’s not politically expedient to wade into that particular debate however I can imagine that she was under some pressure in her constituency from Galloway and respect. This whole thing is a viper’s nest.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Blimey, You’re a Rock Star. How come I haven’t seen this before? I’m not only impressed, I’m in tears.

  • Andy

    Good speech, I’m sorry I wasn’t able to make the demo.

    Just looking at the Guardian live blog , it’s closed, the editor says….

    “I’m afraid we have had to close comments on the blog. This is something that happens only very rarely on Politics Live, but certain topics attract so much hate and abuse BTL that it becomes impossible for the moderators to cope. I’m sorry that has spoiled things for the many decent, sensible people who comment here.

    I was following the comments, didn’t read one abusive post. But most are supportive of Livingston and many see nothing antisemitic about what the MP Shah wrote on Facebook.

    I guess the Guardian closed the blog because btl wasn’t having the bullshit.

    • Mochyn69

      Looks like it.

      Ever more attempts to conflate criticism of the criminal acts of the state of Israel with anti-semitism.

      When will anti-palestinianism attract the same the same amoount of bile, venom and media manipulation?

  • glenn_uk

    From what I’m hearing on Radio-4 right now, anti-Semitism is absolutely ravaging the country, anyone who can be accused of it is automatically on a moral plane with child molesters, and the charge alone is enough to have that person banned from whatever organisation to which he might belong.

    Several commentators have popped up to echo express outrage that Livingstone has not been thrown out already for stating a fact. Nobody was brought on to provide the famous BBC “balance” except the accused – Livingstone himself – who noted that a BBC researcher could confirm the fact within minutes. None has been sought to confirm or deny it.

    All this is supposedly honest and spontaneous outrage, at utterly unprovoked attacks on Jews by individuals motivated by nothing but racism.

  • Republicofscotland

    *******Breaking News******

    Ken Livingstone has just been suspended by the Labour party, over anti-Semitism.

    I wonder if the suspension is down to his interview on the Politics show, where John Mann called him a “Nazi apologists.”

    See my previous comment.

      • Republicofscotland

        D-Majestic.

        First I’d like to make clear anti-Semitism is appalling and shouldn’t be tolerated.

        Regarding the Politics show and anti-Semitism, I got the distinct impression that they were trying to equate Zionisim as a form of anti-Semitism, is it? I ask.

        However Andrew Neil did, distinguish between, criticism of Israel’s government as understandable, and anti-Semitism.

        • glenn_uk

          First I’d like to make clear anti-Semitism is appalling and shouldn’t be tolerated.

          It shouldn’t be necessary for you to have to say that.

    • Andy

      The Blairites are like zombies, you think they are dead but once your back is turned there they are again.

    • John Spencer-Davis

      I understand John Mann chose to pick a blazing row with Ken Livingstone just outside a newsroom.

      Ken Livingstone’s crime, as far as I can make out, is to claim that “when Hitler won his election in 1932 his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism.” This is presumably a matter of historical fact, which can be confirmed or denied easily enough. If he’s right – and I am sure he is – Mann should be compelled to apologise, or be suspended himself for bringing the party into disrepute, or both. Mann is a well-known troublemaker who was vehemently criticised by an employment tribunal judge (Fraser v UCU, 2012-2013) for talking codswallop about anti-Semitism in the following terms:

      “We did not derive assistance from the two Members of Parliament who appeared before us. Both gave glib evidence, appearing supremely confident of the rightness of their positions. For Dr MacShane, it seemed that all answers lay in the MacPherson Report (the effect of which he appeared to misunderstand). Mr Mann could manage without even that assistance. He told us that the leaders of the Respondents were at fault for the way in which they conducted debates but did not enlighten us as to what they were doing wrong or what they should be doing differently. He did not claim ever to have witnessed any Congress or other UCU meeting. And when it came to antiSemitism in the context of debate about the Middle East, he announced, “It’s clear to me where the line is …” but unfortunately eschewed the opportunity to locate it for us. Both parliamentarians clearly enjoyed making speeches. Neither seemed at ease with the idea of being required to answer a question not to his liking.”

      I am afraid I suspect that this is being deliberately whipped up into a froth to send Corbyn packing. And I don’t believe that it will work.

      • Shatnersrug

        It won’t work, Irael is not very popular amongst the British as it is – this type of thing run the risk of ’em flaming racial tensions that had been dormant for many years in this country.

        In the 20th century, Zionists scapegoated ordinary Jews to further their aims – now they use Muslims, however the tactics are all too similar.

      • K Crosby

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Germany#Weimar_Republic_elections

        “when Hitler won his election in 1932 his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism.”

        Hitler never won an election and the nazis never won a national election, even the half-bent one of March 1933.

        July 1932: NSDAP: 37.27%, 230 seats of 608

        November 1932: NSDAP: 33.09%, 196 seats of 584

        March 1933: NSDAP: 43.91%, 288 seats of 647 (SA and police rampant in working-class neighbourhoods, SPD, KPD candidates and Deputies arrested, unprecedented ballot fraud)

        Note that the Weimar election system was democratic, unlike the banana republic system here, where 36% of the vote can be a Commons majority.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      It is. To be semi-fair the Labour Chief Whip has also called Mann in to explain himself. The altercation apparently took place on the way to the studio, not in it.

  • glenn_uk

    Really? I’ve spoken in favour of Brexit without getting it deleted. As long as it’s not off-topic early in a new posting, you should be fine. Where did you read that no such posts are allowed? Anyway – hit your back-browser button, you should find your original post.

  • Republicofscotland

    Great speech Craig, I see Gorgeous George in the background as well.

    You made some good points, I wonder if I could claim a nice wee plot of land in Switzerland. ?

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