I Will Vote Remain Because I Love My Mum 543


After voting tomorrow I shall fly down to take part in an alternative online referendum results programme from the Ecuadorian Embassy with Julian Assange, to give you a chance to hear a discussion of the results without having to listen to yet more neo-liberal spokesmen spouting establishment propaganda.

It is no secret I am an enthusiast for the EU. However as an ardent Scottish nationalist it has of course crossed my mind that it might be a plan to vote tactically for Brexit, to provoke a new independence referendum.

I have decided against this for two reasons. First, there is no way the Establishment is going to allow Brexit to happen. And second, I love my mum, who is English and moved back from Inverness to Norfolk following the death of my father a decade ago. I wish England and the English nothing but well. It would be wrong to wish harm on the English to further a tactical gain for Scottish independence – which is coming anyway.

I cannot vote Leave in the hope that England will leave and Scotland remain, believing that would harm England. Besides, an independent Scotland inside the EU would be disadvantaged by having its only land border with an ailing England outside the EU.

Having successfully kept the EU debate off the blog, I think for the last day we can fill our boots. I like the EU because it has in truth burnt internal national borders. I like the EU because we cannot control EU internal immigration. I love all the vibrant Europeans who have moved here, and the fact I can leave whenever I wish and settle in Lodz or Naples. Without the EU immigrant influx, the UK would have experienced zero economic growth for the last ten years.

There is one anti-EU argument I detest worse than anything Nigel Farage has ever said. It is the “left wing” argument that immigration depresses wages for British workers.

This argument is pure racism. It presupposes that the chance that a British worker might get £10 rather than £9 an hour, is more important than giving a Romanian worker moving here the chance to get £9 an hour rather than £3. Just because one is British and one is Romanian. Racism, pure and simple.

There is of course a much more sophisticated argument about the massive economic boost given by migration increasing demand in the economy, including for labour. If migration harmed an economy the United States and Germany would be the poorest countries in the world, yet they are not.

But I prefer to point out the inherent racism of the Little Englander wages argument, because it pricks the “left-wing” credentials of those who make it.

I am a strong internationalist and I view the EU as the most solid achievement of internationalism to date. The danger of the EU has always been that its internal freedoms would be accompanied by barriers to the world outside, but that is decreasingly true in the economic field as trade barriers have fallen radically, especially to the developing world. It is only an increasing problem in the migration field with the EU reacting to the refugee crisis – whose acuteness is a direct result of neo-con war policy destabilising the Islamic world.

The EU has great supra-national institutions. These are broadly politically neutral. They are used for neo-liberalism at the moment because at the moment most European governments, including the British one, are neo-liberal. But neo-liberalism will not prevail forever. Its consequences in terms of economic insecurity for the many and an exponential increase in extreme wealth for the few, are already undermining popular consent. As only a few diehard economists cling to trickledown theory, the obvious consequences for social stability have started to undermine the intellectual confidence of the elite and their propagandists.

To put that another way, the cleverer rich (ie not Philip Green) have started to realise that if things go on this way, they will be decorating lamp-posts.

The pendulum swings back towards social democracy. Trade treaties with clauses demanding the breaking up of state ownership will fall into abeyance for a few more decades. They are in any event by no means confined to the EU. Banking regulation will, bit by bit, strengthen. Action on tax havens will accrue incrementally.

The EU is a powerful potential force for economic regulation, and we will see it being put to that proper purpose again, with a little patience.


543 thoughts on “I Will Vote Remain Because I Love My Mum

1 2 3 4 5
  • Tony_0pmoc

    Whilst I was cooking The Fish on time..I was waiting for my wife preparing the veg…

    I take the veg..not quite finished…and she follows me into the kitchen…

    She watches TV 6 hours a day – and is on Facebook at the same time…

    She was on a Facebook storm – giving her views…

    I don’t know – I am just the cook

    I do not watch TV or do Facebook – except very occasionally

    She was then drowning me with LEAVE Propaganda…

    I tested one of my conspiracy theories on her…the first time since 2003..

    She says – You are a nutter – I don’t believe that…

    Looks like the Jo Cox stunt didn’t work too well

    We are both voting LEAVE

    Tony

  • Loony

    It looks like no less a figure than GOD has declared for Brexit.

    The UK Met office has issued a weather warning for South East England on Thursday. Heavy rain is expected – this should be enough to keep reluctant remain voters at home. All people of faith will understand that it is their sacred duty to vote leave.

  • Chris

    I’ll be voting remain but the British government has a duty to its own citizens, not to Romanians. Immigration policy should be based solely on the benefits to this country. We are not a charity.

    • Martinned

      1. We are a charity if the people want us to be. (Cf. DFID.)
      2. Does the British government also have a duty to the 2 million UK citizens who live elsewhere in the EU? I know quid pro quo is Latin, and therefore elitist and difficult, but it seems like a concept an Eton/Oxbridge-educated Tory government ought to be able to grasp.

  • RobG

    The Remain rally/memorial tribute to Jo Cox now taking place in Trafalgar Square has got to be the tackiest piece of politics that I’ve seen in many a year.

    Even Bono has paid tribute.

    Perhaps I should stick my finger down my throat now and get it over with.

    • bevin

      It won’t work: Bono will come back.
      It is amazing that a cause backed by Bono and Bob Geldof gets any support at all.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

        Another lie, Nebelmind – I liked Dreoilin a lot.

        She’s the Irish lady who got so fed up with the trolls and Loonies that she left.

        • nevermind

          you are once again playing foul, not very British at all. I hope the moderator will recognise that you stooped Mrs Brown in you first foray here for some 72 hrs.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

        Does anyone else remember Dreoilin, I wonder?

        Mary used to get very upset with her when she pointed out that Mary was a dab hand at dishing out the insults and ad hominems while playing the victim.

        PM – Mary left because a couple of her comments were deleted by the Moderators, not because she was “bullied”.

        • nevermind

          Moderator, the rules are being flouted and H talks about people who are not here and who explicitly said that their name should not be used here again.

          For correctness, H has bullied a prominent poster here for her astute Israel related posts, he’s been asked not to desist many times by her, but persisted to haunt her.

          please do your job.

        • Resident Dissident

          Isn’t it funny how perceptions are formed by the political stances of those concerned. It is transparently clear that if you look numerically at the terms of abuse laden on particular individuals Habba is top of that league table by a long distance – and my guess is that I am somewhere close.

    • Richard

      Well, I suppose he has to go somewhere; his house(es) must be full of refugees by now.

  • bevin

    It just might be that nobody felt like making fun of a lady who must in her eighties, whose memory for names is, perhaps, failing her.
    For my own part, I understand what Mrs Brown meant and welcome her to this community.

    • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

      Lighten up, “Bev” – I was encouraging people to welcome the arrival of easily the oldest contributor to this community.

      I think referendum blues have got to you.

    • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

      It just might also be that the “lady” in question is taking a leaf out of the book of certain other contributors and embellishing her CV a little.

      But anyway, do stop diverting and launching ad hominems.

    • lysias

      Quite in character for someone who drove an unhealthy old lady off this forum (which he now has the nerve, on this very thread, of denying he did).

  • nevermind

    straight in and playing the person, and you want to become moderator here. As they say in Narfuk ‘ge a life boar’

    • lysias

      Someone who repeatedly urges shutting down the comments section is suggesting his own appointment as moderator. Go figure.

      • lysias

        How good to keep reminding people how I, the son of a New York City bus driver, had a good enough academic record to be able to study Classics at Oxford. How good also to occasionally remind people that I am a retired U.S. naval officer and a lawyer.

        I have only mentioned these things in passing, when they seemed relevant to a discussion. Far be it from me to boast.

    • Loony

      An interesting strategy. I recognize your distaste for personal anecdotes, bu perhaps you will indulge me just this once.

      At interview I have always found that if someone asks me why I have applied for a job and I reply along the lines of “I never said I wanted the job” then I tend not to be offered the position.

      Similarly when I have interviewed people I tend not to spend very long with candidates who tell me they don’t want the job.

      Still, I wish you luck.

      • Republicofscotland

        Are you still bleating on about becoming a mod, if Craig were insane enough to even consider you for the task, this blog would no doubt empty quicker than Palestinians in an illegal Israeli settler camp.

        You’d be left moderating Anon1 and Alcyone, then again I’m sure that would be right up your street. ?

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

        You misjudge me, RoS – comments from everyone would get treated on their merits.

  • Martin Walker

    Well done Mr Murray, for taking today’s prize for world class elitist arrogance by making the following statements:

    1. “I like the EU because we cannot control EU internal immigration. I love all the vibrant Europeans who have moved here, and the fact I can leave whenever I wish and settle in Lodz or Naples.”

    So you can leave whenever you wish, how many ordinary working people can simply move as you describe? That demonstrates the elites’ total lack of understanding of the lives of millions and displays breathtaking contempt for the majority of the population.

    Such contempt deserves one response: “Well, b*gger off then mate.”

    2. “There is one anti-EU argument I detest worse than anything Nigel Farage has ever said. It is the “left wing” argument that immigration depresses wages for British workers.

    This argument is pure racism. It presupposes that the chance that a British worker might get £10 rather than £9 an hour, is more important than giving a Romanian worker moving here the chance to get £9 an hour rather than £3. Just because one is British and one is Romanian. Racism, pure and simple.”

    One simple response to that, why should any worker see their earnings reduced as a result of uncontrolled immigration? But then of course £1 an hour or £40 a week, £2000 per annum is small change to people such as yourself.

    The arrogance and ignorance is unbelievable but is what is to be expected from the majority of a rotten and corrupt establishment in the UK currently urging us to remain in an equally rotten EU.

    • Anon1

      Craig has never had a real-life job in his life. He may have been sacked from his career in the Foreign Office, but he maintains all his establishment arrogance and enjoys sneering at the little people and their concerns.

      “I love all the vibrant Europeans who have moved here, and the fact I can leave whenever I wish and settle in Lodz or Naples.”

      Fab, dahlings! Could have come straight out of the mouth of Polly Toynbee. The prat.

        • Resident Dissident

          I spent a few weeks working there back in 1991/2 – the place looked horrible but the people were great even if prone to a little tipple too many.

          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

            I have heard several Irish people say that the Irish have a lot in common (spiritually) with the Poles.

            It’s of course true that both peoples have been oppressed by more powerful neighbours.

            I wouldn’t wish to take a position on how Irish and Polish cities compare, though.

          • Resident Dissident

            A lot of Russians also claim affinity with the Irish – so I suspect the affinity might be between Slavs and the Irish – I don’t think either really have much respect for authority even though they have leant how to live with it in a certain bloody minded fashion ( they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work is a saying you often hear among Russians) and of course the odd tipple helps. This is one reason why I always take those polls suggesting overwhelming support for Putin with a pinch of salt. As with any stereotypes there are of course a lot of exceptions.

          • Jim

            I took a bus trip to Kraków ten years ago and shared the journey with a lovely lad from Lodz who was on his way home from working in Ireland and had been horribly exploited by his employers. I felt ashamed, being of Irish extraction myself.

      • nevermind

        Sometimes you really don’t do yourself any favours Anon1

        You don’t know at all. Craig is working all the time and that’s enough to know.

        But I can let you know what I have seen of it.
        Have you ever walked the streets for 4 weeks solid, talked to people of all walks of life? walked up and down stairs leaf letting and engaging in discussion for days on end?
        Do you know how heavy 6000 four sided A4 leaflets are, enough for a team of six per day? carry that upstairs before denigrating others for what you read in the tabloids.
        Craig did all of this, that’s what you do as a candidate, not that one would want to entice you to become one, it takes certain character and principles.

        Craig, with the help of many other people, also holds the record for producing the first ever campaign CD, in 12 days flat, from taking the shots, editing negotiating and distribution to the main post offices, beat that if you can. No single party has ever contemplated such a modern means of communicating a message.

        Another small, but very important, point that speaks volumes. It was not possible to find anybody in the UK to do this job, we tried everywhere, NI, Ireland Scotland, not in the time frame that it required, so this job was done by Bertelsmann who were able to do this at short notice and send it out in time.

        Now you have another good argument to vote for Remain. The Krauts get it done.

        • Anon1

          Leaf letting isn’t a real job. If it was he would have got a Romanian to do it.

  • Ed L

    “racism” !

    “racism” to prefer someone from Britain having a job in Britain to someone from Romania. ?

    You really are a fucking arsehole.

  • Rainborough

    “the ‘left wing’ argument that immigration depresses wages for British workers…is pure racism. It presupposes that the chance that a British worker might get £10 rather than £9 an hour, is more important than giving a Romanian worker moving here the chance to get £9 an hour rather than £3”

    It’s not inherently a racist argument at all. To make the point that immigration is liable to depress wages is to recognise that, under capitalism, if you increase the supply of labour, from whatever source, the price of labour is likely to fall. If there are more people competing for available work, employers will seize the opportunity to offer lower wages. Some sections of the left have chosen, in the hope presumably of not playing into the hands of racists and xenophobes, to deny this fact. I’m not convinced that anything is ever gained by such a denial. A better strategy is to lose no opportunity to point out that, under capitalism, employers will always seek to import labour to depress wage rates and attack terms and conditions for working people. The only long-term solution to the problem is to move to a more rational economic system, one which replaces the primacy of the profit motive with the primacy of human welfare and the welfare of the planet.
    that importing labour tends to depress wage rates needs as does the fact that the capitalist class

    • Resident Dissident

      While I wouldn’t say that the argument immigration depresses wages for British workers…is pure racism – you can still be worried about the immediate impact on employees wherever they located having to suffer an effective cut in their living standards and look for other steps to be made to correct this such as a more equal distribution between high earners ( who benefit from the freedom of movement of investment and capital – that strangely enough most Brexiters never argue should be restricted), and allow some protection during the transition period. But the fundamentally what Craig is saying is true – if you look at matters from an international perspective or one of mankind as a whole rather than a nationalist perspective ( which is where many of the ersatz left now position themselves), restricting the movement of labour while allowing the free movement of investment and capital, will reduce the return to labour and increase that to those who control capital and investment.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    This is about what the EU has done to Greece, Spain and Catalonia since ( I will have to check my photo record on my computer – do you Yanks want to have a look – I am going their now..just watch my keystrokes and mouse clicks…do you want to post them??)

    September ‎2009 – Mugged and Robbed of 300 Euros in Athens – my wallet and all my cards (fortunately my wife had the passports and tickets in her Rucksack – but absolutely no money)

    Spain – Benidorm x 2 years (1 week holiday) – no problem – I thought I was going to hate it _but it was full of really nice British with an excellent sense of humour (like Blackpool in Spain)

    Spain – Benalmádena x 2 years (1 week holiday) – no problem – I thought I was going to hate it _but The Spanish actually liked us – were very helpful and we got on great…we want to go back there – lovely place.

    Spain – Catalonia (This is even more offensive to write in this way)

    as is

    UK – Scotland

    Catalonia – 400+ Euros – mugged and robbed – not by people in the street – but by the corporate companies – and even the local government

    We were seriously not impressed…

    But what do you expect – if us relatively rich (in terms of virtual) money Northern Europeans in The EU – (hopefully minus one tomorrow)

    EXPECT – if in We in The EU?

    Impoverish Them – when they are so naturally rich with industry and a beautiful productive unpolluted countryside and seas…

    The Catalonians actually quite like us British providing we speak with a Scottish Accent

    They want Their Independence Both from The Spanish and The EU…

    So they are obviously cleverer than you Bloody Scottish..

    And I have never been mugged in Scotland…

    Almost the cheapest wedding ever…

    We ran away to Gretna Green and didn’t tell anyone.

    That is why we us English want to keep You Scottish…we actually think you are still O.K.

    The Southern Europeans have lost it.

    They hate The EU – more than us.

    Tony

    • Ben Monad

      Whilst my last comment awaits moderation due to use of the word ‘J*w allow me to continue.

      Anti-American bias is rampant within the liberal members of the UK and such attitudes are not new to History of recent stature in ignominy. Often, a superior attitude is a better descriptor of inferiority, and more often narcissistic compulsion (which requires the universe to revolve accordingly) and Prussian pheromones, despite the shrill HUMANITY ! droning for the sake of legerdemain. Stop saying ‘MERIKA ! as though not bigoted beyond all ALL MUSLIMS Islamophobia !!! Was that too subtle?

      • Ben Monad

        Wow!…

        How many microns is that filter?

        A freaking molecule doesn’t pass.

  • Loony

    A TNS Poll is out showing “a major lead for Brexit”

    Leaves on 49% Remain on 42%. All this before Bono added his weight to the leave campaign by urging people to vote remain.

  • Manda

    “To put that another way, the cleverer rich (ie not Philip Green) have started to realise that if things go on this way, they will be decorating lamp-posts.”

    Yes but they are doubling down big time, imposing austerity, punishing harshly countries that try and resist, imposing security states, militarizing police, spying on us, wanting us to spy on our children, neighbours etc. and preparing for major war…. Neoliberal Capitalism will not last forever but it has, can and probably will do a lot of damage to countries, lives, societies in the EU as well as it has done around the world before it is dead. ‘They’ have the wealth, the police, the military, the money flow… We in Europe are now in the cross hairs. It is the economic system we have to reject and work towards another more equal, civilized and humane model.

    I am sure if Brexit manages to win that it will take years to effect, if ever but it is our one chance of direct democracy to speak out against the EU anti democratic structure.

    I just read the broadcasters are not dong any exit polls. We need exit polls, they are one way to monitor election fraud! Hedge funds are apparently funding their own private ones so they can make a buck while voting is in progress…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617763/Hedge-funds-order-exit-polls-referendum-results-kept-secret-city-traders-lay-giant-bets-result-polling-stations-close.html

    This appears to be the WikiLeaks EU referendum site where discussion on the vote will be streamed.. http://brexitclub.eu/

  • Republicofscotland

    The EU has three ! — different “presidents” (the president of the parliament, the commission, and the council).

    These bodies are making rules that really do affect our freedoms. For instance, it was the EC that created the “Right to Be Forgotten,” the Orwellian law that bans search engines from linking to truthful, accurate, unbiased information if an individual can make a case that it harms them.

    Portugal has a Socialist government whose economic plan is being sabotaged by the EC. It does not matter whether you agree with Portugal’s government — the people of Portugal voted for its anti-austerity agenda. They should get it. But the EC has rules, and one of them is that governments must balance their books within the margins set by the EU. So earlier this year, the unelected EC forced Portugal, to compromise its economic plan.

    Spain is in a similar position. It is not enough that the Spanish have elected a conservative prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, who has promised his people tax cuts and an end to austerity. Rajoy must also get his plan approved by the EC. As far as I know, no deal has yet been reached.

    • Loony

      Republic – Oh if only it were that simple and the EU was so streamlined that a mere 3 Presidents would suffice. There is:

      A President of the European Parliament
      A President of the European Council
      A President of the Council of the European Union
      A President of the European Commission
      A President of the Court of Justice
      A President of the European Central Bank
      A President of the European Court of Auditors

    • Republicofscotland

      Definitely not, we should be able to look back on anything for educational or information purposes, regardless of who it affects, especially if it’s already in the public domain.

      Minds need refreshed from time to time.

  • Republicofscotland

    Of course the real elephant in the EU room, that will win it for the Brexit camp, is immigration. It’s the one controversial subject that everyone has an opinion on.

    • laguerre

      It’s because IN is the lesser evil (as in all elections). It’s no good expostulating about the evils of the EU, which are moderate in the end. On the other hand, putting an extreme right-wing government in power in the UK will lead to catastrophes you can’t imagine. Brexit victory = Johnson and Gove in power. Cameron obliged to resign, because of his folly. Liberated of EU protections, it will be no more employment protection, no more NHS. without public choice, as it’s four years until the next GE.

      • Macky

        “moderate” ?!!

        The evil potential that the EU can & has inflicted far outweighs that of any one national government, even a wretched British Right Wing one, that we can vote out at the first opportunity.

        • laguerre

          “The evil potential that the EU can & has inflicted far outweighs that of any one national government, even a wretched British Right Wing one, that we can vote out at the first opportunity.”

          Four years is more than enough for right-wing nutters to destroy British society. I’m surprised that you want to put them in power. It’s like the Palestinians who thought that Ariel Sharon in power would lead to Israeli aims being exposed. It did, but not to the advantage of the Palestinians. Rather to the regime of Netanyahu.

          • Macky

            And you have the delusion to speak on the “lesser evil” !

            No, they are already in power & have been for some time as you seem to be forgetting.

            Amazing how many people do a U turn & suddenly lose faith in British democracy when it suits !

      • Loony

        Churchill had some pretty extreme views.

        On your logic the UK should have surrendered to the Axis powers in order to prevent Churchill assuming power.

        Appealing to people’s innate cowardice is hopefully not successful in the short term – for it is guaranteed to produce long term catastrophe, and not the irrelevant, and non existent type of catastrophe that you allude to.

        • laguerre

          “On your logic the UK should have surrendered to the Axis powers in order to prevent Churchill assuming power. ”

          So the EU are Nazis, are they? You’ll have difficulty in convincing most people. Britain alone against the evil Europe. It’s a typical Little Englander attitude. Brick up the Tunnel. Unfortunately it’s a bit difficult to organise our future commerce that way.

          • Loony

            I did not say the EU are Nazis and no reading of my comment by any literate person could possibly claim that I did.

            I am not sure that convincing people to remain in the EU by extolling the virtues of illiteracy is a sensible way forward/

      • lysias

        Will the Tories still have a majority in Parliament after a Brexit victory, or will the party split in two, necessitating the calling of a new election?

        Tariq Ali suggested last year on Democracy Now! that this scenario might bring Corbyn to Downing Street a lot sooner than people thought possible.

        • Resident Dissident

          I heard someone on the train the other day arguing for the centre to coalesce around a new leader – a certain T Blair with the extremes of right and left being vanquished to electoral oblivion. I don’t think it will happen but it is an idea.

          • Ba'al Zevul

            I think it’s already happened, with the exception of the T Blair bit. The EU debate, while it may attract the extremes, isn’t about left vs. right. It’s about which flavour of globalisation we are required to swallow; American or European. Whichever wins, the manufacture and transfer of surplus value to the obscenely rich will continue uninterrupted, notwithstanding the populist noises that have been made by both sides. And Blair would support it to the hilt.

    • Macky

      It’s a remedy for counteracting the delusional fairy tales being extolled here today in praise the EU.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella)

    Was it nasty to point out that someone who remembers Zeppelins over London must be over 100?

  • Richard

    “Firstly, there’s no way the Establishment will allow Brexit to happen”.

    Well, thanks for that, and I’m glad that you confirmed it. That’s what it’s all about. That’s what we racists, xenophobes and bigots have been banging on about. There’s an establishment in Europe too – one that the racist, xenophobic and bigoted plebs who work for a living and pay taxes can never get rid of. They have an imperialist agenda and don’t even bother to hide it. They rub the noses of said racist, xenophobic and bigoted taxpayers in their own powerlessness at every opportunity and slander and sneer at them when they have the temerity to complain. Should that elite provoke a war with Russia, the racist, xenophobic and bigoted workers and taxpayers will be expected to shut up (as usual) and do the bleeding and the dying. The domestic elite are in with the Euro-elite hand in glove. How anybody can be quite so glib about the willingness and determination of that elite to totally ignore the ballot box escapes me. And how anybody can be “a Euro-enthusiast” when understanding that fact also escapes me. These are very, very dangerous people and we would do well to get out from under the bastards as soon as possible. We have the opportunity to VOTE for independence and we should take it. We won’t just be striking a blow for Britain, if we succeed in bringing this project down, the whole citizenry of the continent will benefit. Failure to do so could – in fact probably will – incur a much higher price at some future date. If Craig’s statement quoted above doesn’t make folks wake up and smell the coffee, nothing will.

    I will be voting ‘Leave’ and if I can steal a quote from Liz Hurley, who looks a hell of a lot better in nothing but a Union Jack cushion than I do, I will neither exult not whinge, whatever the result. But I doubt very much that I will ever have cause to regret it.

    • michael norton

      Eye want my country back

      Eye do not want any trade deals

      Eye do not mind if my standard of living diminishes

      Eye am pulling up my drawbridge

  • Scottish Exile

    I can’t agree with the idea that wanting to avoid the depression of wages through immigration is racist. Depressing worker’s wages is a key tenet of neo-liberalism , if you argue that fighting that is racist then you are not seeing the wood from the trees.

  • Anon1

    I am with my brother Macky on this one. Tomorrow’s vote is about Sovereignty, the right to make our own laws and elect our own representatives. If doesn’t matter if you are from the left or the right, you can vote out the government you are lumbered with.

    If we vote Remain tomorrow, what point is there in ever taking part in a British election again?

    • michael norton

      You’re LYING!
      IDS accused Cameron of ‘colluding’ with the EU over Turkey’s membership in an extraordinary attack on the eve of the referendum

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3654727/You-LYING-Iain-Duncan-Smith-accuses-David-Cameron-colluding-EU-Turkey-s-membership-extraordinary-eve-referendum-attack.html#ixzz4CLWgjqVU

      David Cameron has ‘colluded’ with the EU and is ‘lying’ to British voters over the EU, Iain Duncan Smith blasted today.

      The former work and pensions secretary reacted with fury to the confirmation from the Turkish government it saw Mr Cameron as the ‘chief supporter’ of its EU bid.

      I would not beleive one stinking word that comes out of Cameron, he is a not to be trusted, he’ll be gone before July kicks in.

    • laguerre

      “I am with my brother Macky on this one. Tomorrow’s vote is about Sovereignty, the right to make our own laws and elect our own representatives.”

      That is, you’ll have an extreme right-wing govt for the four years until the next election. You’re OK with that, are you? Of course, Craig’s commenters are not necessarily even liberal, as he is. Vote for a quasi-Nazi regime, I understand that, that’s what people do, frightened by false fears.

      • michael norton

        ‘Independence day’

        “It’s our last chance to sort this Bollocks out and take back control,” said former London mayor Boris Johnson, a leader of the “Leave” campaign and a favourite with bookmakers to replace Cameron in the event of Brexit.

        “If we don’t vote to leave tomorrow we will remain locked in the back of the car, driven in an uncertain direction, frankly, to a place we don’t want to go, and perhaps by a driver who doesn’t speak the Queen’s ENGLISH,” he said.

        http://www.france24.com/en/20160622-rivals-race-undecided-votes-polls-statistical-tie-eve-brexit-vote-uk

        I’m not sure I want Boris for my leader but he’d have to drop a long way to become more vile than Cameron.

        • laguerre

          “I’m not sure I want Boris for my leader but he’d have to drop a long way to become more vile than Cameron.”

          It’s a folly to distinguish between one Tory leader and another. They’re equally evil. The issue of IN or OUT is more serious tha that.

          • Macky

            “It’s a folly to distinguish between one Tory leader and another. They’re equally evil.”

            But it’s exactly what you have been doing tonight with your “four years of quasi-Nazis” scaremongering ! 😀

          • Laguerre

            “But it’s exactly what you have been doing tonight with your “four years of quasi-Nazis” scaremongering ! ”

            It’s what you’re going to get if you vote Out. If Brexit succeeds, either Cameron is honest and resigns, in the case he is honest. Or he is dishonest, and tries to stay. In that latter case, he, while in principle PM, will be ruled by Johnson and Gove. I wouldn’t think that will last long. The situation is untenable, in the British political system.

      • Macky

        “I understand that, that’s what people do, frightened by false fears.”

        Stated without irony by somebody supporting Project Fear , and after just scaremongering Brexiters with four years of a “quasi-Nazi Regime” ! 😀

        A little introspective self-awareness is always beneficial; maybe you should try it.

        • Laguerre

          “Stated without irony by somebody supporting Project Fear , and after just scaremongering Brexiters with four years of a “quasi-Nazi Regime” ! ”

          Project Fear was something invented by the Brexiters, because that was their own strategy. Fear is the main arm of the Brexiteers. Remain doesn’t involve any fear, because it means continuing to do what we’re doing. Out means a big change. Nobody knows the result. Fear of the unknowable consequences is inevitable; that’s why the Outers naturally want to inverse the situation and pretend that Fear of continuing to do what we’re doing is more grave than throwing everything in the air with no knowledge of how everything may fall. Far, far better not to know what’ going to happen, than the moderately reasonable result, which we know.

          • Laguerre

            As you like. If you prefer that all the pieces be thrown in the air and no-one knows how they will fall, no-one can say you no. But it’s irresponsible in relation to our compatriots, whose lives are going to be put at risk for no very good reason.

    • Resident Dissident

      Unlike the author, and possibly yourself, it is possible to distinguish between Russophobia and Putinophobia. On that note I shall leave to join my lovely wife.

    • Resident Dissident

      In fact are the Putinphiles being racist when they subscribe his characteristics to the Russian nation as a whole?

      • Loony

        Don’t know, don’t care mate. But I do know that I do not fancy allowing idiots to start a nuclear war just to prove their own intellectual purity.

        If you have a problem then sort it out yourself – leave the rest of the planet alone. How dare you seek to terrorize the entire human species just because you don’t like someone.

  • Tony M

    I don’t think some including CM get, the urge, the self-evident, gnawing need for change rising amongst the great majority and still increasing exponentially in strength. That change is needed is a given. A spanner in the works, or a lunge for the stop button when the machine looks likely to disassemble energetically, explosively disastrously is often times in those alarming conditions circumspect and commendable. Heroic self sacrifice saves the day and the collective bacon before much greater damage amounts, makes repair and salvage more likely. We’ve felt odd vibrations, wonder if such sparks as we see were or are entirely normal, we smell hot bakelite, it’s fiercely hot to the tentative touch and now wisps of smoke appear and a ghastly combusting crackling is emitted. That time for bold reckless but necessary intervention, to hit the STOP button, to pull the plug, open the windows and breathe fresh air again is here and now. It’s a skint knee now or that patch of nettles, barbed wire and a brick wall behind that if we don’t act, however much it’s a leap into the uncharted and unknown, it’s action rather than inaction in the face of target fixation and a looming immovable object ahead, were counter-steering, counter-intuitively, but correctly, we don’t know where we’re going to end up, it might be even worse, but it’s a damned sight better than doing nothing and rubber-stamping the impossible, dire and dreadful status quo against which most, but not all chafe injuriously.

    I’m a generation younger than you and was too young to vote in the ’75 EEC referendum, so have never had a say, all of my life the institutions of power have been the EEC and Westminster, and they’ve failed me I have to say, and many tens of millions more, in this country, and further afield. I think you Craig pre-dated the appalling conditions that greeted school-leavers of any ability or talents or none that emerged to a plethora of no hope options, dead-end exploitative schemes like YOP and YTS that greeted so many unfortunate to be of those generations when Thatcherism was at its most triumphant and bellicose. The effects in places were hidden, closure of large sale enterprises employing thousands a common enough occurence, some towns had a boom-town air to them as redundancy payments kept local service type businesses and boozers temporarily bouyant, for a couple of years, at most.

    The advantages of the EU given, travel; working abroad etc. roaming charges ffs! accrue to an elite, the real elite would call them the rabble, it’s relative of course. But they’re of no tanglible real life benefit to majority of people except sun-seeking hedonists having an unnatural attachment (often to the side of their head) to a grotty little tracking device through which they ‘live’ vicariously, a life that’s a pale and sorry sad reflection of the glorious splendid experiential world they and we all actually live in.

    Vote as you will, the EU is the another iron fist of the Westminster type, whatever finery it’s clothed in and baubles they dangle.

    Don’t the EU apparatchiks like Martinned clinging and pleading for their well-paid non-job and concomitant lifestyle and their whining sense of entitlement make a sorry spectacle? I think too that many will not vote as they have stated here and now on this blog that they will, for a variety of reasons.

    A question too for anyone. What is the actual damned question exactly on the ballot paper tomorrow, or is it a surprise?

    • Node

      “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

      • Tony M

        Thanks Node, the options below that then are Remain & Leave rather than to that question, an ambiguous Yes/No.

        Neither of the pieces of foul junk literature* through the door, which has only consisted of one with Farage’s coupon upon it and then one ostensibly from Will Straw, has even taken the trouble to clarify the question being asked and available choice. And I haven’t taken the time and trouble to seek out that basic information, so I expect many others will be willfully or not or through official neglect or apathy in the same clueless position immediately beforehand.

        *(sorry all you earnest leaflet-luggers trudging through the blizzards beating back snarling animals, and dear nevermind, your plea to vote remain for some desperate migrant, seeing hope here or wherever, even if it’s probably completely illusory, when I have lost all hope, tugs at my heart, and still might sway it, if not towards remain then to abstain)

  • RobG

    Once again, Jo Cox was a strong supporter of the Palestinian cause, and she supported a boycott against Israel.

    But we get this kind of rollocks, from amongst others, the Guardian today…

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/jo-cox-mp-women-views

    On the eve of the referendum, both sides of the debate have still not climbed out of the sandpit; and of course the mainstream media are a complete joke, as usual.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs9jgNR7-N0

    • Jim

      In what way is that Guardian piece ‘rollocks’?
      Yesterday you were telling us the that in the Commons eulogies for Jo Cox there was no mention made of her support for the Palestinian cause, which was untrue, but you didn’t acknowledge that.

  • Tony M

    Some see the EU as some new-fangled great thing, the next great hope, its malign aspects mere blips on the road to the mythical sunlit uplands, for the rest, this is no blip, this is how it has always been and will be, a boot forever stamping on your face …

    I’ve yet heard a single good honest reason to consent to, to laud, to further empower a staggeringly unsatisfactory status-quo.

    • Richard

      That’s because there aren’t any. If there were, they would make them. Instead, they slander, denigrate and insult. That last tendency alone should tell anyone all they need to know.

  • Alan

    So Craig has decided to try and change things for the better by continuing to follow the same strategy that the country has been following since that wanker Ted Heath, instead of seizing the opportunity to try something different? Well whoopy-do, what’s revolutionary about that?

    I’m going to seize the opportunity to give “Call me Dave” the biggest kick in the teeth he is ever likely to get. Thanks to he Tories… hell am I going to whine? No! I’m just gonna go for payback!

    • Richard

      God, in my dreams ‘Leave’ win by a significant majority. I’d love to see the bastard crap his pants on Friday.

      • Laguerre

        Voting in the referendum because you detest a particular person is very foolish. They’re all arseholes. Voting, which you should do absolutely, should be based on the issues, whatever your beliefs are.

        • Richard

          Actually, I agree; but that’s not the reason I’m voting in the referendum. That, if it happens, and it may well not, is just a bit of icing on the cake.

  • Tony M

    Laguerre “Four years is more than enough for right-wing nutters to destroy British society.”

    By my calculation they’ve had since 1979 already, I make that 37 years (though some might include Heath/Barbour and Callaghan/Healey/Jenkins too adding another 10 years almost yet, discounting Wilson’s brief rally). And they’ve pretty much completed the process of destroying ‘British’ society (which is a completely artificial and flimsy inorganic construct), all that is left is royalist pomp and worship of mammon. Four years more won’t make much difference. They won’t last four weeks before they turn inwards on themselves or they become amongst the first to see their last glimpses of the world from the lofty perspective of those abundant lamp-posts.

    • Laguerre

      “Four years more won’t make much difference. ”

      Four years when they’re no longer blocked by EU legislation. Four years when they’re completely free to do what they want.

      • Tony M

        Such as the 48-hour maximum working week?

        In every paid employment I’d had in the period 1998 to early 2001 (subsequent to 10 years of gruelling long hours and at times dangerous self-employment) I had to mandatorily sign an opt-out waiving my right to this protection the result was working 6×12 hours, 70hours per week as a condition of working at all and on pain of benefit stoppage and destitution if I declined the offer to further wreck my health, largely to pay off the leftover business debts and the inland revenue who sequestrated/bankrupted me for gargantuan sums they said I owed in tax from the previous period of self-employment, by which I was merely surviving and for much of that ten years living on a can of pepsi and two cans of roast chicken crisps per day.

        Some protection.

        • Tony M

          It’s not a dig at Craig specifically or even generally, we’re educating him oin the other real world back home, he was only lucky to miss out on, he’s made his valiant stand honourably, but shouldn’t rest on his laurels, he still has much potential!

          Should point out too it’s two packets of crisps, not cans, in-case anyone imagines some more wholesome feast.

          Ta though.

  • glenn_uk

    Vote to REMAIN.

    We’re just delighted with everything the way it is, and couldn’t be happier with the way it’s going.

    Come on – give the Establishment (in the UK & EU & US) some encouragement. They’re doing a great job, and we want a lot more of everything they want to give us. Germany in particular, they know what’s right for counties like ours.

    Otherwise, what are you – racist??

  • Dave

    So it is racist to want my son to have £10 an hour rather than £9 an hour for someone from another country who fancies living here? And not just £10 an hour but a better chance of owning a house? It makes no difference to me whether the foreigner is a blond, blue-eyed German or a Frenchman of Algerian heritage – or any other mix of nationality, skin colour or ethnic origin. I would have thought xenophobic would be more apt than racist. I might also point out that the “British” now includes people of different skin colours, religions and countries of origin. Once we were Celts, Vikings, Angles, Saxons and Romans, amongst others, but you can call me a mongrel racist if you like. To me the numbers are simply unsustainably high: we cannot build houses etc. in the right places fast enough so all suffer.

    “To put that another way, the cleverer rich (ie not Philip Green) have started to realise that if things go on this way, they will be decorating lamp-posts.” Which is why the police have more and more guns and the general population has fewer and fewer. They have also become more militarised with armoured vehicles and rapid fire weapons. Also compare the jail sentences for rioting and theft in comparison with financial crimes. Not for nothing do the rich live in gated communities with bolt-holes abroad.

    I will vote Leave because I love my sons and want the best chances for them.

  • Nathan

    Dear Craig, Maybe you should check if your mother wishes to vote Leave and then follow in her footsteps.

1 2 3 4 5

Comments are closed.