The Barrel Bomb Conundrum 364


Virtually every mainstream media article or broadcast on the United States aerial massacre of Syrian government troops, manages to work in a reference to barrel bombs as though this in some way justifies or mitigates the US action.

It is a fascinating example of a propaganda meme. Barrel bombs are being used by Syrian government forces, though on a pretty small scale. They are an improvised weapon made by packing conventional explosive into a beer barrel. They are simply an amateur version of a conventional weapon, and they are far less “effective” – meaning devastating – than the professionally made munitions the UK and US are dropping on Syria, or supplying to the Saudis to kill tens of thousands of civilians in Yemen, or to Israel to drop on children in Gaza.

If a bomb were to drop near me, I would much prefer it to be a barrel bomb as it would be less likely to kill me than the UK and US manufactured professional variety. If however my guts were to be eviscerated by flying hunks of white hot metal, I would not particularly care what kind of bomb it was. The blanket media use of “barrel bomb” as though it represents something uniquely inhumane is a fascinating example of propaganda, especially set beside the repeated ludicrous claims that British bombs do not kill civilians.

It is of course only part of the media distortion around the Syria debacle. Western intervention is aimed at supporting various Saudi backed jihadist militias to take over the country, irrespective of the fact that they commit appalling atrocities. These the media label “democratic forces”. At the same time, we are attacking other Saudi controlled jihadists on the grounds that they are controlled by the wrong kind of Saudi. You see, chopping off the heads of dissidents and gays is OK if you are one of the Saudis who directly controls the Saudi oil resources. It is not OK if you do it freelance and are one of the Saudis who is merely acting at the covert behest of the other Saudis who control the Saudi oil resources.

I do hope that is clear.


364 thoughts on “The Barrel Bomb Conundrum

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  • Habbabkuk

    Resident Dissident

    I better you were enjoying yourself there – I certainly was!

    Keep up the good work, the Putinistas are reeling and have fallen silent.

    Only temporarily, I suppose, until Messrs Pilger/Meyssan/Chossudovsky and Russia Today tell them what to think.

      • steve brown

        People on this site largely think for themselves thanks, but you seemed to need to cheer yourself up by accussing your opponents of – yawn – being ‘Putinistas’. Great thanks for that – I’m sorry to inform you but this post is about the country you cheerlead for intentionally bombing Syrian troops after organising a ceasefire. After the US did its work – IS stormed the positions your airforce had destroyed.

        The Us supports IS, you support the US ergo you support IS.

        No amount of puny name calling will alter that fact. You are a fellow traveller of ISIS.

        • Habbabkuk

          “People on this site largely think for themselves thanks”
          __________________

          I like your optimism.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “You are a fellow traveller of ISIS.”
          ___________________

          Because I asked Craig to remind me whether he had ever posted about human rights violations by the family firm of Assad & Co?

          @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

          NB – those who keep an eye on this blog aren’t impressed by squibs like “you are an ISIS fellow traveller (you) or “you are an anarchist” (Loony), you know. But do keep on – the longer the better….. 🙂

          • Loony

            If you, or your fellow travelers, are not impressed by being labelled as anarchist perhaps it would be advisable to stop behaving like one.

            You express dislike of Assad because he does not conform to your democratic ideals. You avoid addressing how any society beset by sectarianism can conform to democracy. This despite the fact Northern Ireland provides ample evidence of the difficulties that exist even in legally and economically sophisticated societies.

            You appear to be in favor of the removal of Assad from power. The most relevant contemporary examples of the forced removal of incumbent governments are Libya and Iraq. Both of those countries have descended into vicious sectarian conflict, and neither country has an effective administrative or judicial system. As a consequence neither country is able to guarantee the physical safety of its citizenry. In short both Iraq and Libya are in a state of anarchy. It follows logically that anyone recommending that such chaos be exported to yet more states are best categorized as anarchists.

      • Ba'al Zevul

        Paul’s an MD (Duke, 1961; worked as a flight surgeon and as an obstetrician) and fully entitled to call himself a doctor. No inverted commas about it. Jealous?

    • Macky

      Resident Dissident’s speciality is demonising official “enemies”, ie leaders who are in the Neocon cross-hairs; I remember the numerous times he posted demonising Slobodan Milosevic, yes the man who was not just recently exonerated of all the crimes he was accused of, but now stated to have actually “condemned ethnic cleansing”, opposed Karadzic and tried to stop the war that dismembered Yugoslavia, these being the very lies that were used to justify the illegal NATO attack on Serbia.

      • Resident Dissident

        “Slobodan Milosevic, yes the man who was not just recently exonerated of all the crimes he was accused of”

        No he wasn’t – as I demonstrated when the recent pronouncement was made which most clearly did not exonerate him of ALL the crimes of which he was charged. Go and do your own research and then apologise.

        We could also talk about Milosevic’s illegal attacks on Slovenia, Croatia and Kosovo to say nothing of his own people.

        • Macky

          If you want to play silly buggers and pretend that Milosevic being cleared of charges of ALL the major/serious/war crimes, still means that he is the “Butcher of Belgrade” & “The Balkan Hitler”, than more fool you, especially when records show that he;

          urged that members of other nations and ethnicity must be protected’ and that ‘the national interest of the Serbs is not discrimination’.”

          criticised Bosnian Serb leaders of committing ‘crimes against humanity’ and ‘ethnic cleansing’

          questioned how a Bosnian Serb Assembly could exclude the Muslims

          warned that the World would not accept that the Bosnian Serbs who represented only one third of the population of BiH would get more than 50% of the territory, and he encouraged a political agreement.

          • Resident Dissident

            If you want to play silly buggers and pretend that Milosevic being cleared of charges of ALL the major/serious/war crimes

            Not playing silly buggers – rather than asserting that he was exonerated of all crimes might I suggest you provide the evidence – and then apologise.

          • Macky

            @Resident Dissident, No you are very much playing your usual silly buggers, which is to always totally ignore the real substantive points that exposes the flaws in your arguments, and instead to focus on some or other non-substantive detail, as your last two replies to Old Mark & myself illustrate,

            For years here you have used the most emotive demonising language to portray Milosevic as the personification of Evil, calling him a “Butcher” & a new “Hitler”; yet when the evidence has been released ten years after his death, it not only totally exonerates him of all the major crimes that he was accused of, it actually also reveals that he tried his best to work for an all-inclusive political agreement., to the extent of calling out the Bosnian Serb leaders for their war crimes.

            However you obviously cannot bear to acknowledge this, and seek to indulge in diversion on the grounds that although reports state that he has been clear of all major charges, they don’t state of all charges per se, as if the lesser charges would validate your demonising campaign !

            Seeing as details of the lesser charges have seemingly been deemed so unimportant that no reporter has even ever reported on them, perhaps you can provide the details in order to prove that your demonization was correct, and that all these reporters have got it all wrong by ignoring them ?

          • Resident Dissident

            I have already dealt with this false claim that Milosevic was exonerated of ALL charges before

            https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/07/killings-tony-blair/comment-page-5/#comment-616673

            And if that isn’t enough to get Macky to acknowledge his error and apologise for his gratuitous insults perhaps he might wish to look at this from those excelleny people at StopFake
            “The ICTY replied:
            “The Trial Chamber of the Karadzic case found, at paragraph 3460, page 1303, of the Trial Judgement, that ‘there was no sufficient evidence presented in this case to find that Slobodan Milosevic agreed with the common plan’ [to create territories ethnically cleansed of non-Serbs]. The Trial Chamber found earlier in the same paragraph that ‘Milosevic provided assistance in the form of personnel, provisions and arms to Bosnian Serbs during the conflict’.”
            The Trial Chamber did not in fact make any determination of guilt with respect to Milosevic in its verdict against Karadzic. Indeed, Milosevic was not charged or accused in the Karadzic case. The fact that a person is, or is not, found to be part of a joint criminal enterprise in a case in which he is not charged has no impact on the status of his own case or his own criminal responsibility.
            In short, the trial against Karadzic was against him and him only, and therefore has no impact on the separate case against Slobodan Milosevic. Karadzic, meanwhile, was found guilty of crimes against humanity and genocide, in case Clark has any reservations about Karadzic’s role in the Balkan wars. The full judgement against Karadzic is publicly available here.”

            http://www.stopfake.org/en/milosevic-exonerated-war-crime-deniers-feed-receptive-audience/

          • Macky

            @Resident Dissident, Still playing silly buggers again by refusing to acknowledge the substantive points; anyhow even on your diversionary non-points, (and I see in addition to your juvenile calls for a non-nonsensical “apology”, you’ve now added your usual victim playing charge of “gratuitous insults” !), yet you still can’t get anything right:

            RD; “I have already dealt with this false claim that Milosevic was exonerated of ALL charges before”

            ??!! By linking to your comment in which you bizarrely state “he was cleared of one of the charges. The three others remain outstanding “; bizarre not least because this has no correlation to the actual Court Record’s verdict concerning Milosevic, which I quote here in full;

            “3460. With regard to the evidence presented in this case in relation to Slobodan Milošević and his membership in the JCE, the Chamber recalls that he shared and endorsed the political objective of the Accused and the Bosnian Serb leadership to preserve Yugoslavia and to prevent the separation or independence of BiH and co-operated closely with the Accused during this time. The Chamber also recalls that Milošević provided assistance in the form of personnel, provisions, and arms to the Bosnian Serbs during the conflict.11026 However, based on the evidence before the Chamber regarding the diverging interests that emerged between the Bosnian Serb and Serbian leaderships during the conflict and in particular, Milošević’s repeated criticism and disapproval of the policies and decisions made by the Accused and the Bosnian Serb leadership,11027 the Chamber is not satisfied that there was sufficient evidence presented in this case to find that Slobodan Milošević agreed with the common plan.”

            So are you seriously misinterpreting the line of “Milošević provided assistance in the form of personnel, provisions, and arms to the Bosnian Serbs” as three actual legal charges against him?!! Are you also seriously failing to understand that this verdict complete exonerates Milosevic of all legal charges ?!! All I can suggest is that you seek the advice of any professional engaged in legal matters !

            As to your brass-neck prying in aid linkage to the notorious Ukraine propaganda Site “StopFake”, it plainly misleads with its, “The Trial Chamber did not in fact make any determination of guilt with respect to Milosevic in its verdict against Karadzic”, a perfect illustration of exactly why it is a blatantly lying propaganda Site, that’s only taken seriously by fools or fellow minded Propagandists.

          • Macky

            @Resident Dissident, “Please look up “All” in a dictionary.”

            Is that it, no argument or reasoning ?! 😀

            Well thanks anyway for illustrating to a new set for Posters here exactly how you dishonesty operate; you firstly blankly refused to respond the original main argument, ie being called out for specialising in demonising official enemies in Neocon cross-hairs, even AFTER they have been cleared of all mayor crimes, (and even found to have been acting for peace & against the war crimes of their own side) !

            Instead, you secondly pick on a small side issue, trying to distract by making a big issue of a detail that doesn’t alter the original main argument; thirdly even on this distraction issue when you still get it wrong, you still have not good the grace, honesty or integrity to admit it !

            My definition for a person not willing or unable to engage in honest debate with good faith is TROLL.

          • Resident Dissident

            Perhaps if you hadn’t been so lazy as to just look at my August comment in isolation and bothered to look at the discussion as a whole, including the link provided by Bevin which referred to the ICTY court judgement against Karadzic which you have now referenced again then you would understand better why Milosevic was not exonerated of all the crimes he was accused of. To put it more simply so that you can understand

            1) the judgement you referred to says what it says and it does indeed say that there is not sufficient evidence to say that Milosevic and Karadzic were acting in concert in committing crimes in Bosnia. On that I think we can agree.
            2) What you fail to acknowledge is that the Bosnia indictment against Milosevic is also in respect of him acting individually as well as in concert – see para 25 of the last Bosnia indictment – MILOSEVIC was not cleared of that indictment
            http://www.icty.org/x/cases/slobodan_milosevic/ind/en/mil-ai040421-e.htm
            3) Milosevic was also not cleared of the indictments against him in respect of Croatia or Kosovo
            http://www.icty.org/case/slobodan_milosevic/4

            Do you really want to argue that Milosevic was “exonerated of all the crimes he was accused of” when he most clearly wasn’t??? Are you really that stupid – or are you just a troll looking for an argument.

            I also doubt that I called Milosevic “The Balkan Hitler” as you now appear to be claiming – I tend to believe that all totalitarians are evil in their different ways and labelling them with each others names actually detracts from each’s particular failings – I shall leave tarring all those you disagree with to people like yourself.

          • Macky

            @Resident Dissident, Once again you go to defend your erroneous sideshow distraction rather than address the main issue, but even in doing so, you unwittingly shoot yourself in both feet. By quoting the ICTY’s face-saving weasel worded Ruling of “not sufficient evidence” , they & yourself are simply highlight a fact that actually destroys all the charges against Milosevic, namely that there IS ample evidence to the exact contrary, ie the ICTY themselves found that far from ordering “‘crimes against humanity’ and ‘ethnic cleansing’, he is very much on record for openly criticizing other Serbs for committing them; not only that but he also;

            Tried to find a negotiated settlement;

            Was against the political & military objectives of the Bosnian Serb leaders.

            Insisted that the rights of all minorities be protected.

            Continually tried to reason with the Bosnian Serbs leader, and was “extremely angry” at the Bosnian Serb leadership for rejecting the Vance-Owen Plan.

            Etc, etc

            As to trying to argue that the politically motivated & farcical NATO face-saving “Bosnian” Indictment, made years later when it was already clear that the original frame-up narrative against Serbia/Miloseviv was unraveling, it was illustrates just how disingenuous or desperate you really must be.

            http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/01/the-exoneration-of-milosevic-the-ictys-surprise-ruling/

            https://www.rt.com/op-edge/354362-slobodan-milosevic-exonerated-us-nato/

        • Old Mark

          Res Diss

          Re ‘illegal attacks’- the actions of Milosevic against the KLA in 1998-99 have been called many things; brutal, heavy handed and yes (by the likes of Blair & Samantha Power) ‘genocidal’- but in principle the Yugoslav security forces under Milosevic’s command had every right to operate in what then was still sovereign Yugoslav territory- just as, for example, the Black & Tans had every legal right to operate in Ireland under the command of Lloyd George prior to the establishment of a legally recognised Irish state. (I would expect Irish born Samantha Power to appreciate this historical anology- even if you don’t).

          For a bit of historical perspective, some background on the nature of the thugs Milosevic had to deal with in the late 90s in that troubled region is required-

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_theft_in_Kosovo

          • Resident Dissident

            You clearly have a different view as to what is right and wrong than I do – justifying Milosevic’s abuses of human rights in Kosovo by those of the Black and Tans is a new low for what is supposed to be a human rights blog, even if we ignore little things like the Helsinki Accord.

          • Old Mark

            Res Diss-

            On the matter of the Kosovo indictment against Milosevic you’ve ignored the link I gave a couple of days ago (see above) which shows that Milosevic was hardly dealing with a bunch of honourable ‘freedom fighters’ in that operation (and yes, I admit that Serb paramilitiaries DID commit some atrocious acts in that conflict- but on nothing like the scale that Blair, Samantha Power, and the neocon Amen Corner alleged at the time).

            You should also compare & contrast the gung ho enthusiasm with which the ICTY threw up indictments one after another against Milosevic, with the subsequent tiptoeing around on eggshells which is still going on when dealing with atrocities committed by the Albanian/Kosovan forces in that conflict-

            http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/16/kosovo-organ-trafficking-inquiry-chief-prosecutor-vows-to-investigate-all-evidence

            Do you think that the reticence to hold the KLA to account for these alleged acts has anything to do with the existence of this place?-

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel

            Or is that just ‘conspiracy theorising’ ?

            Answers on a postcard please to-

            Ms S Power
            C/O UN HQ

            Noo Yawk

        • Resident Dissident

          “Do you really want to argue that Milosevic was “exonerated of all the crimes he was accused of” when he most clearly wasn’t??? Are you really that stupid – or are you just a troll looking for an argument?”

          Thank you for a clear affirmative answers to my questions. End of the discussion I think.

          • Macky

            Resident Dissident; “Thank you for a clear affirmative answers to my questions. End of the discussion I think.”

            Yes run along back to claiming you are of the Left, yet just happen to have an inexplicable predilection for always demonising the leaders of every country that the Neocons target; your point blank refusal to debate in good faith, by trying to hide behind vacuous nonsense has been exposed yet again for the benefit of the newer Posters here.

      • Habbabkuk

        “Milosevic, yes the man who was not just recently exonerated of all the crimes he was accused of..”
        _________________________

        An ever so slight exaggeration, Macks.

        • Macky

          Perhaps you can detail some of those elusive non major crimes that RD seems to think substantiates his years of demonising Milosevic as a new Hitler-like personification of Evil ?

    • John Goss

      I kept silent over Resident Dissident’s Open Russia (George Soros-funded) propaganda (screeds on the previous page) because everyone knows where he stands and if he wants to babble on like Tennyson’s Brook so be it. It is a free world and minorities have rights too. He must be heartbroken that the Russian electorate have seen through this propaganda and PARNAS is likely to poll 1% maximum (currently 0.7%).

      Still RD, keep trying it on we Brits. We’re much more gullible (well a few are).

      • Habbabkuk

        I suspect you kept quiet because Resident Dissident presented a serious of facts even you, with your propaganda skills, couldn’t gainsay.

        The emotional content of your (belated )fact-free post (above) offers rather solid evidence.

          • Resident Dissident

            I appreciate it may be a difficult choice but it would be interesting to know if you supported the view of the Russian Communist Party on the fairness of the election or that of the Putinistas. Given that you clearly have views on other aspects of the election, I don’t think you can duck out of this one.

          • Resident Dissident

            I fear Mr Goss is too timid to ever voice any criticism of Putin even when the Communist Party of Russia has got their first.

  • Alcyone

    Meanwhile, the crowd funded pursuit of Tony Blair continues:

    “There has been much speculation in the media that former Prime Minister Tony Blair and other state officials criticised by the Chilcot Report can and should be taken to court by the Families in private civil proceedings. Many reputable legal experts commenting in the media have endorsed this view.

    We, the Families, wish to bring such legal proceedings against any state officials who might have acted unlawfully or in excess of their powers.

    However, we cannot take any action before our legal team, McCue & Partners, one of our country’s leading human rights and public interest law firms, has done a full and forensic legal analysis of the Report (2.6 million words over twelve volumes) and prepared a comprehensive opinion approved by expert Senior Counsel. There are no shortcuts.

    We have estimated that, to complete this work, we require £150,000 to cover all associated costs. We are starting with a target of £50,000, which will enable us to make a start, but to help us get through this stage we need all the support we can get in raising the full £150,000.”

    Target met and exceeded:

    https://www.crowdjustice.co.uk/case/chilcot/

  • mike

    Spot on, Craig.

    The neocons are upping the ante in Syria. Maybe they think Killary is no longer a shoo-in, and they can’t be sure about Trump. One look at Killary’s national security team should send a shiver down your spine. It’s toe-to-toe with Russia if she gets in. People have to grasp that.

    • Alan

      Do you seriously think the Yanks would ever start a war against a country big enough to fight back? It took them 30 years of losing to get completely trashed by Vietnam; they still haven’t won after 15 years of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, they have no chance at all against Russia.

      This is the nation composed entirely of those who have run away (to be free) from every country in the world, rather than stand up to oppressors.

      You really ought to start thinking clearly.

      • Habbabkuk

        Alan

        But did the USA lose in the long run?

        Vietnam is now firmly (and peacefully) on the capitalist road and Communism has been thrown onto the rubbish heap of history where it belongs (as elsewhere).

      • Loony

        Sadly the US may be prepared to start a war against someone big enough to fight back.

        Delusional thinking runs deep. A complete and willful ignorance of Russian history enables them to conclude that the Russians are little more than “surrender monkeys”. There is a program to miniaturize nuclear weapons – which they think will make them more usable, and that a few preemptive nuclear strikes will be all that it takes.

        These are dangerous times.

  • exiled off mainstreet

    The septics have really jumped the shark. Do we really want nuclear war in defence of jihadi thugs?

  • lysias

    According to his Wikipedia entry, Paul Craig Roberts holds a Ph.D. from the University of Virginia and did postgraduate study at the University of California at Berkeley and at Merton College, Oxford. What’s with the scare quotes around “Dr.” for him? Is that meant to suggest that there’s something bogus about degrees from the University of Virginia?

      • lysias

        He continues to defend Reagan and what he did in that administration. But he thinks that what the neoliberals have done since has been far worse. Which shows that even a leading Reaganite is unable to defend the policies of the neoliberals in recent decades.

        • Paul Barbara

          You really surprise me that he still supports that jerk Reagan. I’ll have to check up on that when I have time.

          • Habbabkuk

            “Dr” Paul Craig Roberts has always been a man looking for a “cause”. Before it was President Ronnie, now it’s to become a first XI iconoclast.

            Being a nutter was/is no disqualification, quite the contrary.

  • Brianfujisan

    ” Only temporarily, I suppose, until Messrs Pilger/Meyssan/Chossudovsky and Russia Today tell them what to think”

    As opposed to what some Russians Actually say –

    In response to Power’s accusations, Maria Zakharova wrote on Facebook: “Dear Samantha Power, in order to know the meaning of the word “embarrassed,” I highly encourage you to travel to Syria and talk to the people there for yourself. And by that I do not mean the Al-Nusra Front militants, nor the moderate opposition, whose humanitarian situation Washington seems to be so worried about. I likewise am not referring to the Western warriors for justice for Syria. I’m referring to the actual people that continue to live there in spite of the bloody experiment that has been waged on their homeland for over six years, with active participation by Washington.”

    The Moscow representative went on to say she herself is in constant communication with people on the ground, which includes both opposition forces dispersed across Syrian towns, and the orphaned children left in the wake of the fighting there.

    “Let’s go there together,” she said, promising she would shoulder the expenses of Power’s Syria trip.

    “Do say yes. Don’t be frightened. Nobody will lay a finger on you in my presence. Unless, of course, your guys don’t again ‘mistakenly’ strike the wrong target. You’ll make lots of new memories. And find out what ‘embarrassed’ means in the process,” .

    Well Done Zakharova for not cowering at Powers Cowardly, inhumane defence of their crimes

    If ever I wanted to Curse n Rant.. BUT THANK GOODNESS for the indy rally at Glasgow Green today what a Gem in the Rain…. as opposed to a wee let down in freedom square yesterday…in baking heat

    • Habbabkuk

      Fuji-san

      “As opposed to what some Russians Actually say –

      In response to Power’s accusations, Maria Zakharova wrote on Facebook.. etc”

      _______________________

      Yup, she’s quite “some” Russian.

      Spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry, if I’m not mistaken………

      Chump!

  • Manda

    I follow Vanessa Beeley who has done a lot of research on the UK backed White Helmets and Eva Bartlett for news on Syria mainly now as antidote to UK propaganda. Both have been in Syria recently travelling around talking to Syrians, Syrian real civil defence and even government ministers and Assad himself.
    Eva [email protected] hosts her work here. https://ingaza.wordpress.com/syria/human-rights-front-groups-humanitarian-interventionalists-warring-on-syria/ https://ingaza.wordpress.com/syria/my-published-articles-and-other-musings-from-and-on-syria-20142015/ and interview by SOTT.NETT
    Vanessa [email protected] .https://thewallwillfall.org/

    Both are regular guests on 21Cwire and UK Column News. Eva was on RT Crosstalk this week.

    • Manda

      Powers obviously completely lost it behind the scenes and she/her team abused Churkin badly is what I conclude by her and Churkin’s demeanour.
      Powers couldn’t even contain herself in the room. US has been the undisputed super power for years now… finding being challenged and questioned very difficult. Very worrying and even terrifying times indeed.

      Yes Vanessa is great, it’s so heartening to read and hear sense!

  • Mike Barson

    Yeah – ‘Barrel Bombs’ – ‘Assad must go’ – Jeremy Corbyn is ‘unelectable’ – He’s a honest man… but not a ‘leader’ – The memes resound like broken tape recorders.

  • bevin

    “Resident Dissident

    “I better you were enjoying yourself there – I certainly was!”

    You can always tell when Habba is enjoying himself- he types with one hand and the typos just pile up.

  • bevin

    We have reached the stage now, and this happened quite recently, where only a small minority of sycophants and complete fools believes US propaganda on Syria or any other middle eastern crisis.
    There is an air of desperation about the way on which one atrocity story follows another and most of them are just retreads of those the public only stopped laughing at yesterday.

    Anyone who wants to measure the decline of the credibility of the Mainstream Media in the US has only to look at the opinion polls which, after months of pro Clinton and anti Trump propaganda, are beginning to show Trump moving into a clear lead.
    And one reason is almost certainly that the electorate regards endorsement by the NY Times etc as a very good reason to look elsewhere. Anywhere elsewhere.

    Here is a story the NYTimes seems to have missed, forgive me if you read it in The Guardian:
    “This story was barely covered in US media; can you imagine if this little child was killed by the convoy of a Russian diplomat?
    “Vehicle in Convoy of U.S. Ambassador to U.N. Kills Boy in Cameroon”. And did his family receive $400 from the US government? What is the running price these days for a black or brown child killed by the US government? Posted by As’ad AbuKhalil

    • Manda

      “You do realize that in 2014 Hamas was actively rocketing Israel from there?”

      I hate to be unwelcoming to a vet and American but this one statement makes anything you write of little value to me. I stopped reading your comment after that, I have read too many over the years to not know the agenda and mind set of those totally unwilling to open their minds..

  • Concerned Yank

    This has been an enlightening evening reading the comments and linked articles. Thank You!

    I am one of those dumb Yanks..but a Combat Veteran that may have some wisdom for yourselves and Mr. Murray..if he reviews these comments.

    I was on a search for the recent extremist attacks in the U.S. and noticed Mr. Murrays editorial linked thru Washington Post somehow. It was concerning that it further degraded not only the U.S policy for war but accused Isreal on the Barrel Bombs with no voted incidents. So off the further startpage searches since there is an agreement for Google to censor their searches. I found instances of military grade level of bombs for U.S. and Syria. Not surprised. However, nothing on Isreal use going back to 2014. No specific entries of use on children in Gaza. You do realize that in 2014 Hamas was actively rocketing Israel from there? Perhaps before writing such a blog you should visit Isreal and perhaps live a week along the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Is it “Safe” now..and how was it back then. My concern is bringing up that type of item just continues to further a cause and sadly it clouds others into your beliefs without Hard Data.

    Through the “Comments” on Mr. Murrays article I saw a Wikipedia reference. Please tell me that is not your only source for Data. There are paid groups out there who purposefully ensure their Data is placed there..regardless if it’s genuine. I’m just waiting to see when one gets posted stating “The next Savior of Mankind is…” and everyone believing it.

    The “Powers” incident and related articles are sad. It is heartbreaking to see that a child was accidently struck while a motorcade was passing. One article said 40 mph..another said 60 mph and I’m sure the actual military report/police report said a different speed. People are always quick to judge.
    Let me explain..I was in Mogadishu, Somalia, long before the “Blackhawk Down” incident. I was shot at daily and nightly. One of my Primary duties was to deliver mail to different outposts. When you are fearful of IEDs…rocket launchers..rolled grenades under your vehicle..you drive as fast as possible..blaring horn when needed and Always..Always..the civilians get out of your way.
    So here are numerous articles on the evil “Powers” and U.S. actions. Seriously, when will you Academics wake up and stop allowing people to spoon feed you or your Causes? It’s a sad state of the world when everyone becomes sheep and follows the herd.
    I honestly would not be surprised if the truth was that the child jumped on purpose into the oncoming car (by threats to his family) or was thrown by one of the Warlords men.

    For future reference..please use numerous sources not just ones that support your Cause. And remember that “Those with power” control the news you get. News and crime statistics (reported by Law Enforcement) are Always doctored for a Cause or to keep the Sheep unwary.

    • Alan

      “Let me explain..I was in Mogadishu, Somalia, long before the “Blackhawk Down” incident. I was shot at daily and nightly. One of my Primary duties was to deliver mail to different outposts. When you are fearful of IEDs…rocket launchers..rolled grenades under your vehicle..you drive as fast as possible..blaring horn when needed and Always..Always..the civilians get out of your way.”

      Maybe on the day an army of Mogadishans start driving round Washigton DC, “keeping the peace” by driving as fast as possible..blaring horn when needed, you might begin to “get it”.

      What are Americans doing anywhere in Africa?

      • Loony

        Ah yes Americans in Africa – and all for such noble purposes.

        We have on this blog someone writing to describe their experiences of delivering post in Mogadishu – such a vital task as I am sure everyone would agree.

        Meanwhile there were precisely no Americans in Rwanda to either witness or prevent the chopping up of some 800,000 people. As may be expected there were and are many Americans in the Pentagon, Some of those Americans were engaged in complex Excel modeling. Excel modeling that demonstrated that the the life of one US Marine was equivalent to the lives of 80,000 Rwandans. Because Americans have access to education they were able to work out that the whole 800,000 dead Rwandans were equivalent to the lives of 10 US Marines. Given the distance of Rwanda from the US then it simply was not worth the time and effort of doing anything.

        This is especially true if one considers that postal deliveries in Mogadishu may have been interrupted had there been any diversion of resources to Rwanda.

    • Habbabkuk

      Concerned Yank

      Thank you for your comment – much appreciated by all non-obsessives and all those whose default position is not one of Pavlovian anti-Americanism.

      Hope to hear from you again

    • Republicofscotland

      Concerned Yank.

      Perhaps you should learn how to spell Israel, before you lay bare your apologist stance, for the apartheid military state.

    • Geoffrey

      Concerned Yank, You should reread Craig’s blog he did not say that Israel barrel bombed Gazan children. He said that they used far more effective weaponry that kills what it intends to kill suggesting that they were deliberately targeting children. Quite a good way of shutting them up wouldn’t you think ?

  • Anon1

    Barrel bombs are dropped on neighbourhoods not loyal to the Assad regime with the intention of killing, maiming and terrorizing civilian populations.

    That’s the difference.

  • Anon1

    Barrel bombs are dropped on neighbourhoods not loyal to the Assad regime with the intention of killing, maiming and terrorizing civilian populations.

    That’s the difference.

    • Republicofscotland

      Anon1.

      British made Cluster bombs are turning up on a daily basis in Yemen used by Saudi Arabia on Yemeni civilians, yet the Western media, (ever obedient little muts) very seldom mention the carnage that these weapons inflict, in a civilian environment.

      Amnesty International and HRW have condemned the use of Cluster bombs, yet the dis-United Kingdom’s ally Saudi Arabia is allowed a almost carte blanche in Yemen. Not even the Great Satan (US government) mentions the Saudi slaughter in Yemen on a daily basis.

      Yet because Assad is the latest target in the axis of evil, Nato’s, regime change (mainly US/Israeli driven) barrel bombs are the new in word for the compliant occidental media.

      Of course the pro-West media, would never think of mentioning Israel’s 200+ nukes.

  • Concerned Yank

    Then send United Nations teams into Syria to witness report and conduct sanctions. Oh..that won’t happen. Just like you won’t find a U.N. team on the ground to verify supposed recent Barrel Bombing (per Mr. Murray’s editorial) by Isreal. Yet people will cite editorials like this and think they are gospel. Just saying..

    • Alan

      Sending teams into other countries? Now who does that the very best and the most often?

      http://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/10-of-the-Most-Lethal-CIA-Interventions-in-Latin-America-20160608-0031.html

      10 of the Most Lethal CIA Interventions in Latin America+

      “While the dates most associated with the Central Intelligence Agency are the 1953 coup against Iran’s Mohammed Mossadeq and the following year against Guatemalan President Jacobo Arbenz, the world’s most notorious–and possibly ignoble–spy agency actually was chartered on this day in 1947.

      Since then, the CIA has played a role in hundreds of assassinations, military coups, and rebellions around the globe, from Argentina to Zaire. “

    • j

      Have a read of some of the many instances of media bias Craig has cited over the years regarding Iraq, Libya, Syria among others.

      Meanwhile, one of your own generals (Wesley Clarke) outlines how he learned just a few weeks after 9/11 that seven countries were to be invaded in five years (not including Afghanistan) although it turned out to be closer to fifteen.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

  • Republicofscotland

    So the explosion in Manhattan, has diverted attention away from the recent actions of the US Airforce, in Syria, in a similar fashion that Brexit has diverted attention away from the Chilcot report.

    However returing to the deeds of the Great Satan (consecutive US governments) in Syria, and the murder of 62 Syrian soldiers. The soldiers, representing the elected Syrian government, where in battle against ISIS when the US war planes came, and were essentially acting as air support for ISIS by bombing the Syrian soldiers near the city of Deir ez-Zor, Syria.

    Russia called for an immediate UN meeting to find out why the US had once again acted on behalf of ISIS in Syria.

    It’s not that long ago, that the Great Satan bombed, a hospital in Afghanistan killing patients and doctors from Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).

    Unsurprisingly the Great Satan’s minion allies, Saudi Arabia, are currently bombing with impunity in Yemen, god only knows what death and destruction they’ve caused. Israel also bombed with impunity killing many women and children in “Operation Protective Edge” in 2014. For fifty days, Israel pounded the civilian population in Gaza killing over 2000 people, such was the ferocity of the attack by Israel’s modern high tech army, that Gaza’s tallest building the Basha tower was toppled.

    490 children died in the 50 day Israeli onslaught.

  • Roderick Russell

    Barrel Bombs, Guided Bombs, Drones, Airplane Dropped Bombs – So what! They all kill people. I am not a pacifist, but I have to wonder what purpose is served by all this fighting.

    9/11 was a horrible act of terrorism. But why destroy Afghanistan in revenge since most of the Al Qaida terrorists, and one suspects their leadership, were Saudis?

    And attacking Iraq on the false caucus belli that Saddam had WMDs. Since the WMDs didn’t exist, what was the purpose of this war? Yes, Saddam was a very nasty piece of work, but there are worse dictators around whom we don’t attack. And look at our achievement in Iraq: we have made things worse – we have created chaos.

    And in Syria? Since ISIS didn’t exist until these wars started, our initial purpose could not have been to fight ISIS. So what was our purpose?

    I confess to having great admiration for our soldiers who risk their lives to fight where the politicos tell them to. However, I suspect that no purpose is being served by these wars and that our politicos don’t know what they are doing. We can only exercise democratic control over the politicos if there is a Main Stream Media (MSM) reporting factually to us … and with different opinions.

    It does seem to me that what passes for a MSM today are more and more becoming propagandists for elitist establishment views that often have a lot to do with vested interests and little to do with the truth. These wars may be being fought to no purpose at all because we don’t have a functioning MSM that reports the truth to us.

    • michael norton

      Just seen that stupid woman Mrs. Balls, can’t understand why she doesn’t use her husband’s name, telling anyone who will listen, we have to care for the Syrian people in Britain, bring more over she says, when told we have just voted BREXIT, partially to regain control of our borders, because we do not have proper control of our border with the E.U.
      the woman complains that the British people want to bring in and help more people fleeing from war.
      HELLO tell the AMERICAN PEOPLE to stop bombing SYRIA.

  • Laguerre

    Incredible as it may seem, it appears now that Britain also took part in the raid on Deir ez-Zor, after the admissions of Oz and Denmark. At least according Radio 4.

    • bevin

      To be fair the RAF will have done so with the endorsement of Hilary Benn and the Labour PLPlotters. Who also favoured Cameron’s war in Libya and the attack on Iraq (see Chilcot).
      It is this Foreign Policy consensus, designed to bring retaliatory terrorism to Britain, which the media is intent on shaming Corbyn for not joining.
      T

    • Republicofscotland

      Laguerre.

      Thank you for that, the dis-United Kingdom did indeed play its part in the murder of those 60 odd soldiers, soldiers who were fighting ISIS at the time. It’s probably not the first time ISIS have called in air support, from the axis of evil.

      I recall the Great Satan accidently (if you believe that) dropped a whole pallet of munitions and supplies, straight into the hands of ISIS, in Iraq.

      Also involved in the murders during the cease fire, were Denmark, and Australia.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2016_Deir_ez-Zor_air_raid

  • giyane

    Russia openly accuses USUKIS of helping Islamic State by breaking the Syrian cease-fire and taking out 60 Syrian army personnel. There is no such thing as jihad involving killing your fellow Muslims. You can make jihad against Hindus and Seikhs who defy the universal commandments of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by marrying their wives’ sisters. But you cannot make jihad against practising Muslims in order to establish power over them. Fortunately political Islam, US, UK and IS have so far exceeded their remit in destroying the livelihoods of fellow Muslims that they might as well have been nobbing their grannies as well.

    • Laguerre

      “But you cannot make jihad against practising Muslims in order to establish power over them.”

      That is true. It is why Wahhabi-style extremists have the concept of Takfir – you simply declare another Muslim an unbeliever, if you find him heretical, or simply don’t agree with his beliefs. Mind you, I’ve frequently heard ordinary Muslims here in France say that ISIS aren’t Muslims. The notion of Takfir is apparently contagious.

      • giyane

        When the guru of the temple behind my house, Masjid Ali, guru of Takfir Islam, invites the guru of Mecca Takfiri Islam Sheikh Sudais to recite in the temple, the Hindus ( who call themselves Muslims but actually know nothing about Islam) swarm to touch him. Maybe after 1000 years of living in the UK , by osmosis, the Islam of the gospels as followed by the English peoples will infiltrate their Hindu aggression culture and they will come to Islam.

        If the Indian people had been practising Islam, submission to God’s will, through 1000 years of their history, all of the Hindus and most of the British would have come into the religion.

  • Concerned Yank

    Interesting criticism..
    1. Bifocals and difficult to write with a phone.
    2. Anyone with intelligence would have looked up “why” at the behest of many nations the U.S. was in Somalia. Due to civil war the nation was torn apart by warring factions to the point most buildings were shot up from battles. The mission was to help restore power, water, and escort Humanitarian Aid of food to the starving populace. It was later turned over to a U.N. led team.
    3. Citing a response to a daily I flux of tickets into your country..mmm..thats WAR! Had your home, family, businesses endured such treatment..what would you do.
    4. I was merely explaining there were probably items you Sheep are unaware of.
    5. Good luck with whatever your Cause seems to be.
    6. Remember..like on commenter..you are all Infidels and subject to death, rape and whatever they decree.
    7. Look up and announce how Infidels are treated in those countries (and groups desiring) to further Sharia.
    8. I may be a “Dumb” Yank..but at least when someone is about to kill me, I’m shooting back. You will be cowering under a desk praying.

    • Republicofscotland

      So the self-appointed world police force the US, got their arses kicked in Somalia, (1993) Clinton, felt the backlash. However the US warhawks will never learn from their historical mistakes, Kennedy suffered a similar fate at the Bay of Pigs.

      Of course the Great Satan (consecutive US governments) wouldn’t dream of poking their noses into Saudi, or Israeli affairs.

      • Republicofscotland

        “It seems that the US did not succeed in materially improving the situation in”

        ________

        Looney.

        I’m not trying to be facetious, but has the US actually improved any of the nations, that it invaded under the guise of bringing freedom or democracy?

        In my opinion, the US has done for South American’s alone, what McCarthyism did for those American’s who thought socialism was a good thing.

    • giyane

      Concerned Yank

      “due to civil war” created by USUKIS to re-colonise Africa, yes what was the question please?

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Concerned Yank

      You’re obviously one who hasn’t read ‘A People’s History of the United States’, by Howard Zinn.

      ‘…2. Anyone with intelligence would have looked up “why” at the behest of many nations the U.S. was in Somalia…’

      Well, try 4* General (Retd.) Wesley Clark, ex- SACEUR:

      ‘General Wesley Clark: The US will attack 7 countries in 5 years’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUCwCgthp_E
      ‘…6. Remember..like on commenter..you are all Infidels and subject to death, rape and whatever they decree….’

      Well, as a 24 year old I hitched, bussed, walked, and got trains through Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, West Bank, Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India (predominantly Hindu and Sikh, but with a very large Muslim minority) in 1967, alone, except when I joined up with fellow-travellers (not the Communist kind, though many were left-wing). And I spent two years, from 1957 to 1959, aged 14 – 16, as a US Military Dependent (my stepfather was USAF).
      And in all that time, no Muslim ever harmed me, nor even threatened me.
      Travelling through Iran again in 1974, I was mugged, but I was drunk as a skunk and more or less brought it on myself, alcohol being banned at the time.

      AND I look Jewish, though I’m a Christian.
      Not so much luck in the States; I got attacked on at least one occasion, and on another a guy went to get his gun from his car glove compartment, and I legged it (we were gambling in a bar, and he got upset).
      ‘…8. The only time anyone is trying to kill you is when you go off into their lands and kill, rape, torture and plunder to your hearts content – do you blame them?

      • Paul Barbara

        I meant to write: ‘..And I spent two years, from 1957 to 1959, aged 14 – 16, – in Morocco – as a US Military Dependent (my stepfather was USAF)(I forgot the Morocco bit, the point of the sentence).

  • Republicofscotland

    I know it’s the Daily Mail, a paper that has done for intelligent journalism, what Sharia law has done for women’s rights but…

    “A new row over Chinese investment broke out last night after it emerged that one of the country’s firms is bidding to take control of half of Britain’s gas pipelines.”

    “State-owned operator China Gas has joined with Shanghai-based investment firm Fosun to bid for a majority stake in the National Grid’s £11 billion gas distribution business.”

    “It operates four gas distribution pipelines that supply an estimated 11 million homes and businesses in the Midlands, the North West, eastern England and north London. The Chinese consortium is one of three trying to buy a controlling stake.”

    As I said on another thread, if it’s not nailed down, the Tories will either sell it or privatise it.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3795314/Now-China-try-buy-GAS-State-backed-consortium-bid-majority-stake-National-Grid-s-11bn-network.html

    • Republicofscotland

      Don’t you just love the way, those politicians who were once prominent and in the media eye, come crawling out of the woodwork or from under a rock to add their tuppence worth to the Brexit debate. In the hope of regaining the limelight.

      In recent week’s I heard through the media, the likes of Nick Clegg, and David Miliband, (Hilary Clinton’s friend) and a whole host of now Z-list politicans, give us their take on Brexit.

      As if we actually want to know what there position is on the matter.

  • Concerned Yank

    Yay for mispelling…Daily influx of rockets..
    Anyways…Good luck with your Hate Mongering!

  • Manda

    Well all allies against Assad are piling in to say they had a hand in air strikes on Syrian army allowing Isis to gain. Personally I find it sickening and shaming. ‘Mistakes’ are surely for domestic consumption alone.

    • lysias

      I had a part-time job transcribing CNN the time of the Kosovo War. Every time the on-air talent talked about the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, they invariably called it the “accidental bombing.” There must have been a memo telling them to do so. The U.S. government came out with an unbelievably story about using out-of-date maps.

      I later learned from people in the U.S. military that the bombing was quite deliberate, as the U.S. military believed the Chinese were passing data to the Serbs.

      So much for claims of “accidental”.

      • Manda

        I’m 99% sure this was deliberate. Syrian elite forces had apparently been moved to the area to assist in an SAA allied planned assault on Isis. Instead the strikes gave Isis the opportunity to attack (immediately interestingly) and make gains.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Manda
      Syria, Iraq and Iran have known from the outset what the Americans and their cohorts were doing, as did many ‘Truthers’.
      Anyone who really believes that the attack on the Syrian troops fighting the terrorists in their own country was an ‘accident’, must be doolally, to put it mildly…
      I always admired the RAF as a child, and early adulthood. But now, I see them as no better than the Luftwaffe
      The Aussies showed their mettle when Indonesia murderously and barbarically invaded and occupied East Timor in 1975 (though there were many good Australians who protested their government’s stance), despite the Timorese assistance to the Australian forces sent into Timor to harass the Japanese; the Aussies then left when things got to hot for them, leaving the Timorese to the tender mercies of the Japanese, who were not particularly pleased with the assistance the Timorese had given to the Aussies.
      I suppose the Danes just like a Turkey shoot, and/or are getting in on the kowtowing to the Great Satan bit.

  • Old Mark

    Res Diss @07.04

    ‘You clearly have a different view as to what is right and wrong than I do – justifying Milosevic’s abuses of human rights in Kosovo by those of the Black and Tans is a new low for what is supposed to be a human rights blog.’

    You have completely (and I assume deliberately) miscontrued the comment I submitted last night, to which your comment of 07.04 responds.

    I am not ‘justifying’ the abuses carried out by Yugoslav forces in Kosovo in the lead up to NATO’s bombiing campaign of 1999- I was merely pointing out that Milosevic could not be accused (as you accused him) of ‘illegality’ or ‘aggression against another state’ during this anti insurgency campaign, as at the time (and even today) Kosovo is not a sovereign state- indeed in 1999 it was still an integral part of rump Yogoslavia. Therefore the abuses which were undoubtedly committed by state actors in that conflict were indeed analogous to those committed by British crown forces during the Irish War of Independence 1919-21.

    Since your comment of 07.04 this morning seeks to attribute malign motives to my earlier comment, you’ll forgive me if I respond in kind to your canard thus-

    1. Your comment of 07.04 this morning was silent on the legality of the NATO bombing campaign against Yogoslavia in Spring 1999- I must therefore assume that, despite its not having any UN authorisation, and in the light of your putative respect for ‘international law’, that you think that this act of war was completely tickety boo.

    2.You also made no comment on the conduct of the KLA during the late 90s, which prompted Milosevic’s crackdown, and which also,as even western observers now grudgingly admit, shows that group to have been up to its ears in mafia style activities, including (to an extent still to be acknowledged) trafficking in human organs, some most likely taken from POWs who were subsequently bumped off. Again, I must reluctantly assume from your silence on this point that you tacitly defend such activities- when committed by actors favoured by the West in general and the US in particular..

  • Paul Barbara

    This thread has elicited some very good comments. I shall try to encapsulate reasons why blaming Assad for all manner of atrocities is accused of unleashing on ‘his own people’.

    Why on earth should the Syrian Armed Forces have to ‘improvise’ barrel bombs, when they can get far deadlier ordinance from Russia (legitimately, to defend their country and people from a horde of bloodthirsty thugs sent in at the behest of the West, by the Saudis and their Gulf henchmen)?
    Rubbish, pure and simple, like the allegations (still repeated ad nauseum, that the Syrian Government forces used Chemical Weapons).
    Pull the other one, perps of the ‘Maine’, Operation Northwoods plan, Gulf of Tonkin LIE, Pearl Harbour ‘incitement’, 9/11, ‘Spotty Lincoln’ adventure, ‘USS Liberty’ plot, Libyan catastrophe, Iraqi WMD LIE, and so on
    Also, from day one many members of the ‘Truth’ community have held the belief that the so-called intervention against ISIL/ISIS/IS/XYZ was just a smokescreen for attacks on the Syrian regime, just another ‘Regime Change’ scenario.
    Recently, the US admitted ‘accidentally’ bombing Syrian Government forces, killing 80-odd and injuring 100-odd. About as ‘accidental’ as US bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, etc etc.
    ISIS/ISIL/IS/XYZ were created by the West with their Middle Eastern partners in War Crimes, and continue to serve their purposes – amazing how the ‘tewwowists’ immediately attacked after the US had bombed the Syrian defenses – ALMOST as though they were expecting it….
    Then check the ‘Yinon Plan’: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-yinon-plan-and-the-role-of-the-isis/5459366
    Look vaguely similar to what is occurring? Surely, that couldn’t be; WE wouldn’t do that sort of thing.
    But, Wesley Clark and Roland Dumas beg to differ – ‘General Wesley Clark: The US will attack 7 countries in 5 years’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUCwCgthp_E
    ‘Roland Dumas: The British prepared for war in Syria 2 years before the eruption of the crisis’:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeyRwFHR8WY
    Both men are also on other TV interviews, saying the same thing.
    So much for a Syrian Regime of terror, firing on ‘peaceful protesters, – as peaceful as the protesters in Ukraine), using CW on their own people, using ‘barrel bombs’ on civilians, and any other lies ‘OUR’ side can conjure up.

    @ LaguerreSeptember 18, 2016 at 14:31
    ‘I rather think this air-strike by the Yanks on the Syrian army in Deir ez-Zor is going to backfire on the Americans. It’s such a big f*ckup, and makes it look like they really are doing close air-support for ISIS. I really have no idea whether or not it was an accident, but the question has been well put: What was the US (and Australia, apparently) doing bombing down there, far from any interest of the US, where the two sides are only the SAA and ISIS? It is hard to believe they were defending the Syrians, as Russia correctly points out. And if not defending the Syrians, there is only one conclusion.
    Anyway, according to Masdar, at least the Syrians have now retaken the position, and it has not led to the fall of Deir ez-Zor to ISIS. The Americans must be relieved.’

    ‘…makes it look like they really are doing close air-support for ISIS….’

    The Syrians, Iraqis and Iranians have been saying that for a long time, as have many ‘Truthers’:
    ‘Iraqi army downs two UK planes carrying weapons for ISIL:http://www.australiannationalreview.com/iraqi-army-downs-uk-planes-carrying-weapons-isil/
    ‘Hakem al-Zameli, head of the Iraqi Parliament’s National Security and Defence Committee revealed that the committee “has access to the photos of both planes that are British and have crashed while they were carrying weapons for the ISIL,” FARS News reported. The senior lawmaker said that the Iraqi parliament has asked London for explanations and added it is receiving daily reports from security forces and people in the province on countless flights led by the U.S.-led coalition’s planes, which airdrop weapons and supplies for the group in terrorist-held areas…..’
    ‘Iraq’s Popular Forces Release Photo of Downed US Chopper Carrying Arms for ISIL’:
    http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13931209001345
    ‘Obama an Accessory to War Crimes in Syria?’:
    http://shoebat.com/2013/09/03/obama-an-accessory-to-war-crimes-in-syria/

    @ Roderick Russell September 19, 2016 at 12:08
    ‘Barrel Bombs, Guided Bombs, Drones, Airplane Dropped Bombs – So what! They all kill people. I am not a pacifist, but I have to wonder what purpose is served by all this fighting.
    9/11 was a horrible act of terrorism. But why destroy Afghanistan in revenge since most of the Al Qaida terrorists, and one suspects their leadership, were Saudis?
    And attacking Iraq on the false caucus belli that Saddam had WMDs. Since the WMDs didn’t exist, what was the purpose of this war? Yes, Saddam was a very nasty piece of work, but there are worse dictators around whom we don’t attack. And look at our achievement in Iraq: we have made things worse – we have created chaos.
    And in Syria? Since ISIS didn’t exist until these wars started, our initial purpose could not have been to fight ISIS. So what was our purpose?
    I confess to having great admiration for our soldiers who risk their lives to fight where the politicos tell them to. However, I suspect that no purpose is being served by these wars and that our politicos don’t know what they are doing. We can only exercise democratic control over the politicos if there is a Main Stream Media (MSM) reporting factually to us … and with different opinions.
    It does seem to me that what passes for a MSM today are more and more becoming propagandists for elitist establishment views that often have a lot to do with vested interests and little to do with the truth. These wars may be being fought to no purpose at all because we don’t have a functioning MSM that reports the truth to us.’

    Whilst agreeing with a lot of what you write, I do have some reservations:
    ‘…9/11 was a horrible act of terrorism. But why destroy Afghanistan in revenge since most of the Al Qaida terrorists, and one suspects their leadership, were Saudis?…’
    There has never been a proper investigation to find out who did the Terrorist attacks in 2001 (if you wish to reply to this in depth, please use the thread https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/the_911_post/ )

    ‘..And attacking Iraq on the false caucus belli that Saddam had WMDs. Since the WMDs didn’t exist, what was the purpose of this war? Yes, Saddam was a very nasty piece of work, but there are worse dictators around whom we don’t attack. And look at our achievement in Iraq: we have made things worse – we have created chaos…’
    Attacking Iraq over the lie was a ‘Crime Against Peace’, the premier War Crime.
    ‘…Saddam was a very nasty piece of work…’ But the West traded with and armed him to the hilt, KNOWING what a ‘nasty piece of work’ he was – as they have done countless times through history.
    ‘…we have created chaos…’
    Exactly what they wanted to do; check out the ‘Yinon Plan’.

    ‘..I confess to having great admiration for our soldiers who risk their lives to fight where the politicos tell them to….’
    Do you also have great admiration for the Wehrmacht and the SS? They, too, ‘took their orders’.
    And the Nazis carried out atrocities? So have the Americans, in every war it has ever been engaged in (I put that in to preempt ‘surely you’re not equating the US with Hitler’s Germany?’).

    ‘…However, I suspect that no purpose is being served by these wars and that our politicos don’t know what they are doing. We can only exercise democratic control over the politicos if there is a Main Stream Media (MSM) reporting factually to us … and with different opinions…’
    Whilst the Politicos may have no idea, and care less, what they unleash (they are puppets of the ‘Deep State’ puppeteers), those puppeteers DO not what they want: chaos, wars, famines artificially induced pandemics, leading to a ‘One World Gulag’; and unfortunately, they are forging ahead on all fronts towards their goal.

    ‘..It does seem to me that what passes for a MSM today are more and more becoming propagandists for elitist establishment views that often have a lot to do with vested interests and little to do with the truth. These wars may be being fought to no purpose at all because we don’t have a functioning MSM that reports the truth to us…’
    It’s certainly not surprising that you should come to that conclusion; it’s as plain as a pikestaff!

    Here are some links to articles which can further enlighten the arguments:

    Masters of Black Propaganda: The BBC is Barrel Bombing Night and Day: 
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/masters-of-black-propaganda-the-bbc-is-ba rrel-bombing-night-and-day/5383051 
    ‘Independent Investigation of Syria Chemical Attack Videos and Child Abductions:’ 
    http://bsnews.info/independent-investigation-syria-chemical-attack-vid eos-child-abductions/ 
    ‘West Toxic Lie On Syria Exposed’:  By Finian Cunningham 
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36555.htm 

    The US have been ‘at it’ since the birth of the Repulic;
    ‘”Remember the Maine!”: http://www.ushistory.org/us/44c.asp
    ‘Spotty Lincoln’:
    http://tpscongress.indiana.edu/enduring-issues/timeline/war-isolationism/1847-mexican-american-war.html

    Pity the cheerleaders of American policies and actions haven’t read Howard Zinn’s ‘A peoples History of the United States’!

    • Ben

      “Pity the cheerleaders of American policies and actions haven’t read Howard Zinn’s ‘A peoples History of the United States’!”

      Thanks for the comprehensive denialism. May you recline on Buddha’s couch with a never-ending pipe full of opium and a plate of delicious bangers and mash or steak and kidney pie. Oh and have a Guinness too.

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