I thought this interview went rather well. Often you finish a live interview and worry you didn’t get your points over clearly. I thought for an immediate post election comment, I nailed this one quite well.
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RUSSIAN warships arrive off SYRIA as regime regains Aleppo areas
The flotilla, including an aircraft carrier, reaches Syria amid fears it will be used to launch a devastating attack on Aleppo.
Russia says it has not bombed the area for nearly a month.
http://news.sky.com/story/russian-warships-arrive-off-syria-as-regime-regains-aleppo-areas-10654368
“The epic battle for Aleppo has failed,” said the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, the UK-based monitoring group which has a network of contacts in the country.
Vlad Putin is a master strategist, he has out thought Obomba at every turn.
I think SYRIA will fall to RUSSIA, it will eventually become RUSSIA as CRIMEA has become RUSSIA
but I think there will be a plebiscite first and there will be an overwhelming majority to join with RUSSIA.
“I think SYRIA will fall to RUSSIA, it will eventually become RUSSIA as CRIMEA has become RUSSIA
but I think there will be a plebiscite first and there will be an overwhelming majority to join with RUSSIA…”
Don’t hold your breath. There is about as much chance of Syria joining Russia, or Russia inviting it to do so, as there is of Obama doing a walkabout in Athens next week.
bevin, i did not know Obomba was going walkabout in Athens next week, what is his game-plan?
Trowbridge calls it the biggest corruption scandal in US electoral history.
It would have to be very big indeed to to be that.
The truth is that the election, like all US federal elections, was corrupt in dozens of different ways: it was financed corruptly, by people taking money from the coffers of corporations fraudulently, and by selling access and influence, and illegally from foreign states and by criminals buying protection.
And, of course there were dead people voting-many of them have voted in every election since 1796.
But the interesting thing about your “$800 million” vote buying claim is that the turnout was so low, much lower than in 2012 when an incumbent was running against a bore. One would have imagined that the zombie votes would have boosted the turnout.
Hillary lost. It was a damned good thing that she did. Trump isn’t a fascist, he’s a flaneur. The main thing is that war in eastern Europe and the Middle East no longer seems inevitable: to those living in Europe and the middle east that is a big deal.
A much bigger deal than whether the President of the USA wears pants or a pant suit. Or is married to a man who ordered the assassination of one of our commenters.
Just more nonsense.
Obama and Putin agreed on a deal to end the war in Syria, and Russia was moving its fleet there to accomplish it well before the US elections.
To act as if it was just Trump’s belated idea isn’t true. Obama wanted it, and Hillary supported it to help get elected.
And Trump’s corruption of the process is unprecedented.
And I would not have supported Bill under any circumstances, as I suffered considerably for years because of his poisoning.
November 13
Abaaoud was the coordinator,
Abdeslam, the assembler of the commando.
http://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2016/11/12/abaaoud-etait-le-coordinateur-abdeslam-l-assembleur-du-commando
Abaaoud “coordinator on the ground”, a “scout” sent from SYRIA IN THE FLOW OF MIGRANTS
and Abdeslam “assembler of the commando”: a center of study retraced the manufacture and the trajectory of the cell responsible for the Paris attacks of 13 November.
One of the greatest moves for peace that President Donald Trump can pull off, is to back off from the Middle East, especially SYRIA and let the Syrians and the Russians
sort it.
Soon, the flow of migrants will desist.
More to the point would be an apparent Trump=hired gunman shooting that protester in Portland, and how the press is handling these marches, either stating that they are violent, or failing to report them.
The one I attended yesterday here in New Haven: I have yet to see it covered, though more people attended it than one reported the day before.
Just more examples of our police state media.
Will attend the next march, once I learn about it, and will be on the look out for any assassin.
The media have been on Clinton’s side for months. Do you imagine that Trump runs the Portland police?
If there is a police state blame the government and the insiders, such as Obama and Clinton. Trump has never held public office, it is ridiculous to hold him responsible for anything more than vulgarity and scamming the punters.
You mustn’t take the election so personally Trowbridge, the voters weren’t rejecting you-just people who think like you.
Bevin: “The media have been on Clinton’s side for months.”
I take it you don’t actually follow US media that much.
Right-wing hate-radio, which is boarder-to-boarder and coast-to-coast, 24 hours a day across the entire spectrum, has been working the Clinton Derangement Syndrome for the past 30 years. In particular, they have more or less equated Hillary Clinton with the Devil.
But on MSM, Trump had absolutely unparalleled access. You mentioned earlier the relative budgets of the Clinton Vs Trump advertising, but did not take into account the free publicity offered by the MSM.
Trump appeared on TV networks across the country whenever he wanted, which was pretty much on a daily basis.
Fox “News” (just about the most popular “news” outlet) – a Murdoch tool which was originally going to be called “GOP-TV” – gave him highly favourable continuous coverage for many months, while the “liberal” MSN gave Trump carte-blanche to call by whenever he fancied, call in if he had anything to say, and cut to coverage of all things Trump no matter who else was on, or what else might be happening. CNN, ABC, NBC and the others followed suit. They competed to give him free airtime.
I have to say it’s pretty astonishing to find _you_ championing this proto-fascist. Since you are a man of decency and intelligence, it’s rather obvious to me that you will come to regret this softness of yours towards Trump.
Daily Mail interviews middle-aged white man who was beaten up by a black mob in Chicago for having voted for Trump.
‘Next thing I knew they were beating the s**t out of me’: Man beaten as onlookers shouted anti-Trump taunts said attack unfolded after a crash.
Another hired troublemaker for Trump?
See that at least four American soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan, and many more wounded.
Is Trump going to pullout of there, as he proclaimed.
Hope so, but I’m not holding my breath.
Very unclear what the point is. How is it instructive, if that’s your intent?
My point is Trump really serious about anything, or is he just stringing us along until he gets full power.
I fear he is just a supreme bullshitter.
He’s proven already he can string us along. But now he doesn’t have to. It could be he is the real deal, but only TIME will tell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHfB63ln1Ig
or this… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg6xaFZStEI
My ears are so tired after days of listening to American accents. But, somehow when it comes to music, it’s alright. Even more than alright. Most songs almost don’t sound right if they are NOT in an American accent.
Moral of the story: Americans should talk less and sing more but then, like everything else, so much MEDIOCRITY has crept in.
Trump is going to run the Whitehouse as a distraction – like an episode of The Osbournes – camera crew and everything, whilst those mean old republican boys destroy what’s left of the country
Kief
As usual, it’s not meant to be instructive. Your compatriot rarely sticks his head up over the parapet (except to tell us about his many “higher degrees” (seats of learning unspecified))).
Trump=Hitler Light
I’ve seen youngsters (Millenials) excited about politics for the first time in many years. I am cautiously optimistic but admittedly jaded. Let’s keep a good thought.
So you think Hitler was just a bullshitter, who wasn’t serious about anything?
I thought he was ‘Literally Hitler’?
Trump = Winston Churchill heavy. We’re going to drain the neo-con swamp.
Churchill in Iraq – the original neo con?
See that someone has privately purchased the Connecticut voter list, and has posted the item about me, giving my address and phone number..
Guess I can expect increasing troublemakers.
Remember, you first heard it all from me.
“Peace will come
With tranquillity and splendor on the wheels of fire
But will bring us no reward when her false idols fall
And cruel death surrenders with its pale ghost retreating
Between the King and the Queen of Swords”
Last verse, The Changing of the Guards, Bob Dylan
So who/what are Hillary’s fallen idols? And the cruel death, is that symbolic of the protests (riots?) taking place currently?
Is Hillary still in mourning? It was pretty disgraceful of her, not to show up to her team promptly to commiserate her loss. I bet she could hardly believe her eyes or ears. And wish her a miserable rest of life. The other side of the pleasure coin, is pain.
Just misogynist bullshit.
Hillary has just denounced Director Comey for helping her defeat.
And, for the flat earthers, Hitler Light has chosen Professor Myron Ebell to lead the fight against any efforts to mitigate climate change, and global warming.
Here comes Armageddon!
She shoulda known – Comey, Comey, Comey, Comey chameleon; he comes and goes…
Her own fault for breaking the rules, and if she can’t accept blame then yes she’d have been an excellent POTUS!
A professor eh? Must know what he’s talking about then.
The Truth About the Trump Protests:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d9lm-T87AQ
This lunatic’s efforts have already been linked, so why repeat it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_raXzIRgsA
The world is quite confusing but there may be light at the end of the tunnel.
Quite funny actually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d9lm-T87AQ
Vice-President elect Mike Pence (short of a shilling) :
New American Standard Bible
Security of the One Who Trusts in the LORD.
1He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
Will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.
2I will say to the LORD, “My refuge and my fortress,
My God, in whom I trust!”
3For it is He who delivers you from the snare of the trapper
And from the deadly pestilence.
4He will cover you with His pinions,
And under His wings you may seek refuge;
His faithfulness is a shield and bulwark.
5You will not be afraid of the terror by night,
Or of the arrow that flies by day;
6Of the pestilence that stalks in darkness,
Or of the destruction that lays waste at noon.
7A thousand may fall at your side
And ten thousand at your right hand,
But it shall not approach you.
8You will only look on with your eyes
And see the recompense of the wicked.
9For you have made the LORD, my refuge,
Even the Most High, your dwelling place.
10No evil will befall you,
Nor will any plague come near your tent.
11For He will give His angels charge concerning you,
To guard you in all your ways.
12They will bear you up in their hands,
That you do not strike your foot against a stone.
13You will tread upon the lion and cobra,
The young lion and the serpent you will trample down.
14“Because he has loved Me, therefore I will deliver him;
I will set him securely on high, because he has known My name.
15“He will call upon Me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble;
I will rescue him and honor him.
16“With a long life I will satisfy him
And let him see My salvation.”
In 2000 Mr Pence said Saddam Hussein “had amassed weapons of mass destruction” – In 2004 after Hussein was captured(Dec 2003) Mr Pence lied through his teeth and said, “..we have found pieces of his WMD’s” in an attempt to disentangle from the torture, from the abuse at Abu Ghraib and from the rape of young Iraq girls by American military thugs who “didn’t think of Iraqis as human.”
In the same idiomatic sense Mr Pence can I suggest the shadow of complete power and control abides with the citizens of this planet earth and it is they who will judge you when redemption is intended.
So, Saint Nigel (pbuh) is the first UK politician to meet and establish relations with President-elect Trump.
In fact, he is the first foreign politician IN THE WORLD to meet President-elect Trump.
Doubtless The Guv will be enjoying a pint and a good belly laugh with The Don whilst gently directing him towards a favourable trade deal with Britain.
Getting in there early for Britain is our St Nige. Front of the queue. 😀
No, Britain has far more important considerations, namely why trade when you can smash & grab ?
“The Sunday Telegraph understands that Britain will spend the next two months trying to convince Mr Trump’s team of the need to remove President Assad. The issue will be the “number one” priority.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/12/trump-putin-alliance-sparks-diplomatic-crisis/
If “President” Assad Jnr (currently CEO of the firm Assad & Sons, estl. 1970, “tyranny, murder, torture and expulsions our speciality; poison gas and barrel bombs made on the premises”) had been removed at the beginning, the situation in Syria would be very different to what it is now.
‘In the words of former CIA agent Robert Baer:
“If you want a serious interrogation, you send a prisoner to Jordan. If you want them to be tortured, you send them to Syria. If you want someone to disappear — never to see them again — you send them to Egypt.” ‘
https://www.aclu.org/other/fact-sheet-extraordinary-rendition
And all those noble Americans giving their lives so that the ordinary Syrians can live under the blissful, enlighten rule of the head-choppers;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/army-special-forces-soldiers-killed-in-jordan-were-working-for-the-cia/2016/11/11/8c6b53de-7b66-40ed-9077-bf954070f2be_story.html
That’s an interesting comment, Macks, but how does it relate to what I wrote? Sounds like a diversion to me.
Assad Snr was a bad, bad man and his first intended successor (his elder son Basil, who died while driving his sports car too fast) would have been no better.
The current incumbent (younger son Bashir) will doubtlessly one day meet the fate of most Middle Eastern “strongmen”.
But I do not expect anyone who admires petty (but murderous) tyrants to agree with me.
But you could disagree without resorting immediately to insults and invective, surely?
I very much doubt that that would be the UK government’s No 1 priority, Macks.
But who on earth said it was?
You sound somewhat confused today!
The number one priority? Very sad.
Why are so sad, I thought you were pro British Empire, and that was also all about plunder & murder.
The sad truth might be that several countries might be better off today if they had remained colonies under a more enlightened, cooperative and politically and economically balanced form of colonialism.
It might also be a mistake to use the argument that some modern independent states which were once colonies were in fact artificial creations which threw together separate peoples/ethnicities/tribes into a superficial unity. That may have been the case but if it was, then the following question would require an answer: why do the rulers of those post-colonial states bitterly resist any attempt by those separate peoples/ethnicities/tribes to break away and achieve their own independence (Nigeria, former-Belgian Congo, Iraq….)?
To quote yourself, only this sometime with validity, “Sounds like a diversion to me.” 😀
Not really, Macks.
It was you who mentioned the British Empire (your “comment” at 09h39 refers).
You really do seem confused – and forgetful – today!
“It was you who mentioned the British Empire”
Which was in logically context to asking why Anon1 was sad that HMG was prioritising trying to convince Trump to engage in regime change in Syria, when the British Empire which he’s so proud of, was built on regime changes & worse.
Your diversionary attempt iro former colonies being artificial states etc, is so cack-handedly obvious, it’s a very loud LOL ! 😀
10:14
The sad truth might be that several countries might be better off today if they had remained colonies under a more enlightened, cooperative and politically and economically balanced form of colonialism.
The USA being the best example!!
“It was you who mentioned the British Empire”
Which was in logically { sic } context to { sic } asking why Anon1 was sad…etc, etc..”
________________________
Whatever the context, Macks, “logically” or otherwise, the fact is that it was you who brought up the British Empire.
Really not your day today is it!
Number One Priority for Police Scotland is LGBTI Hate Crime.
Scotland’s First Minister Frau Nicola Sturgeon is to write to Donald Trump to congratulate him on becoming US president.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37966943
That’s very good of her, I wonder if she will mention about misogyny
seems to be one of the most popular words in the English language, lately.
He’s appointing his family to his Administration. Oh well, Clintons, Bushes, Trumps… Banana republic. Did he really mean anything he said during the campaign?
‘Obamacare’ – “Oh, did I say anything about that?”
Muslims – “Let’s remove the hate stuff form my website”
Wall – “Wall, I see no wall”.
Opportunists open the door to neonazis. And so, this week, as related by a friend of mine whose duaghter is a pupil there and who happens to be Jewish,there were swastikas daubed on a school in Washngton, DC. We see the same monster being resurrected in the UK. Opportunists like Boris Johnson and really quite sinister politicians like Theresa may and Nigel Farage are facilitating this. Le Pen is openly Fascist and she may well be the next President of France. I am no tbeing alarmist, I am being real.
Hit them where it hurts – Boycott Hate!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lego-ends-advertising-daily-mail-stop-funding-hate-campaign-a7413361.html
One step from that to book burning, SS. Careful what you wish for.
It may be a simplistic view but this is what I think about Donald Trump. He makes things. He lives in his own building. Most politicians don’t make things and if you don’t make things you don’t know appreciate the creative energy that is required.
Politicians who only know how to wreck things are the really scarey ones. Even Mrs Thatcher knew how to mix more air into ice cream. But most politicians only know how to make hot air.
If the bedwetting liberals don’t like democracy then perhaps we should try survival of the fittest and see who wins that one?
I’ve no problem with the result – although the Americans might wish to rethink a First past the post system based on 50+ constituencies that has a elected a President twice on a minority vote – but I don’t think that stops anyone expressing peaceful opposition to the views of anyone. The US system is full of checks and balances against authoritarian behaviour and there is no law against using them.
“The US system is full of checks and balances against authoritarian behaviour and there is no law against using them.”
Indeed.
Hate-filled anti-Trump protesters, approved by the liberal media, are attacking property and beating up Trump supporters on the streets. On social media, they are calling for Trump’s assassination.
I told you, watch these liberals carefully when they don’t get their way. They are the true fascists.
Probably just frustrated Bernie Sanders people, mostly young, ignorant and disaffected. But it is true that their actions are profoundly undemocratic and therefore to be condemned by all right-thinking people.
You missed what I said about peaceful opposition – the other kind is exactly what the proto fascists want and desire.
Most former Sanders supporters like me are still mad about Hillary stealing the nomination, as Wikileaks proved. I doubt if many of them are protesting Hillary’s defeat.
“He makes things.”
I think you will find that most of his money comes from property speculation.
Just watched Andrew Marr with Marine Le Pen
on the BBC
Quite good, Marr was rather pathetic, still doing the biddings of the liberal elite, still i supposed it harbours the possibility that the Establishment are beginning to understand a Tsunami of change is sweeping the Western World.
The interview should have gone on for much, much longer and been more insightful.
1) is France going to detach from NATO?
2) is France going to detach from the Euro?
3) is France going to get rid of immigrants?
4) is France going to rebuild good relations with the United Kingdom = Yes
5) is France going to rebuild good relations with Russia = Yes
6) is France in for a MASSIVE change = MASSIVE CHANGE – whoever gets in
Marine also said
“There was not a hairs breadth between the Front National and UKIP.”
Another one comes out for the new empire. I do hope Angela Merkel now realises she has to step up to her role as leader of the free world.
Looks like she might
“Merkel made by far the most dignified response I have seen to Trump’s election. “Germany and America,” she said, “are tied by values of democracy, freedom and respect for the law and human dignity, independent of origin, skin colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation or political views. I offer the next president of the United States, Donald Trump, close cooperation on the basis of these values.” Magnificent.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/11/populists-us
RD
i take it you are expressing irony?
Frau Merkel is undoubtedly the most ignorant person they could have “running” Germania,
she is a clown without humur.
I suppose you believe that Trump is well informed, so I’ll take your last comment in that context.
Trump can’t be stupid, he is worth $3 billion and still doesn’t pay tax, he also won a recent election, even though he was an outsider.
I didn’t say he was stupid. BTW I don’t regard avoidance of tax as a sign of intelligence but as unethical behaviour – there are plenty of accountants out there who can tell you how to do it if you can afford their fees.
“Trump can’t be stupid, he is worth $3 billion and still doesn’t pay tax, he also won a recent election, even though he was an outsider.”
That just means he’s the biggest turd in the cesspool.
why can’t you name a better chancellor, Michael. Your are so full of it, suggesting she is ignorant, when you can’t see the politicians who have led you and many millions of others by the nose since they got ‘involved in Europe’ in 1976.
Their involvement reached as far as getting splinters up their jacksie for sitting on the fence too long, forever that is. They are taking some blame for Europe as it is today, no good screaming from the sidelines when you never made any effort inside the tent.
Now tell us who would have make a better leader some 11 years ago than this scientist from Hamburg.
Your tabloid style here does nothing for us Michael, how about reading up on some facts before you spout such nonsense here on an internationally read blog?
Nevermind: (To Norton): “Your tabloid style here does nothing for us Michael, how about reading up on some facts before you spout such nonsense here on an internationally read blog?”
Well said, Nevermind. M. Norton – this isn’t some Daily Express comments page. If you have nothing of worth to say, which apparently is all of the time, try not saying it.
Res Diss-
Garton Ash playing the same old Atlanticist/Globalist tune; if he’s investing all his hopes in Merkel as the new leader of the ‘free World’ perhaps he should ask himself-
1.How soon will the German electorate countenance an increase in defence spending from the current 1.2% of GDP to the 2% NATO wants of its members ?
2.Does he think Merkel’s liberal bromides directed at Trump will actually elicit a like minded response from the new man in the White House ?
3.Does he think Merkel’s liberal bromides are also enthusiastically endorsed by the leaders and membership of her Bavarian sister party the CSU ?
4.As the principal real life outcome of Merkel’s stated ideals is an unprecedented level of third world immigration into Germany, does he think that the German electorates support for Merkellism will increase, as the practical consequences of the application of these ‘principles’ becomes evident to them?
If Garton Ash, and your good self, seriously believe that all 4 of these questions can be answered affimatively, your coronation of Merkel as the Leader of the ‘free World’ and successor to the Mantle of Obama, may have some basis in fact. If however the answers turn out to be negative, Garton Ash’s article should be seen as nothing more than a liberal pipe dream, and be converted into fish n chip paper at the earliest opportunity..
A complete non sequitur I’m afraid – neither I or Garton Ash would regard your four items as the defining features of western liberal democracy. Mrs Merkel, with whom I don’t agree on many things, has experience of living under a totalitarian state so is probably in a better position than most to understand what actually makes up a free state.
President-to-be Trump scores his first admirable achievement:
‘Obama administration suspends TPP vote effort’:
https://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/obama-administration-suspends-tpp-vote-effort?
This will interest those who like facts (it’s from the WSWS):
“…..This identity-based presentation of Tuesday’s election is a false narrative exploded by the most basic analysis of the data from the election.
“The most significant statistic from 2016’s election is the massive drop in support for both the Democratic and Republican candidates. While uncounted votes from California may slightly alter these figures, Hillary Clinton received about ten million fewer votes than Barack Obama did eight years ago. Trump, who lost the popular vote while winning the electoral vote, received the least votes of any candidate from either party since 2000. These figures are even more striking because of a drastic increase in the population of eligible voters: 18 million since 2008.
“Far larger in number than the vote for either candidate are the 99 million eligible voters who abstained from the 2016 election or voted for a third party. This is a measure of social discontent and not of apathy. In other words, while Clinton and Trump received the vote of 26.6 and 25.9 percent of eligible voters, 43.2 percent chose neither.
“Among those who did vote, Trump received the votes of just over 27 million white men, about equal to the 27.2 million white men who voted for Republican Mitt Romney in 2012. As for women, 35.5 million voted for Clinton in 2016, a significant drop from the 37.6 million who voted for Obama in 2012. Remarkably, just 30 percent of women eligible to vote cast ballots for Clinton in 2016, compared to 47 percent who did not vote.
Clinton also suffered significant losses among African-American, Latino and young voters. In 2012, Barack Obama won 16.9 million African-American votes, over 3 million more than Clinton’s 13.7 million. Just over 9 million Latinos voted for both Obama and Clinton, despite a significant increase in the Latino voting population over the past four years. Among people aged 18-29, Clinton’s 13.6 million votes is roughly 8 percent less than Obama’s 14.8 million figure from 2012, despite a similar growth in this age demographic.
“As a percentage of votes cast, all racial groups swung toward the Republican candidate in 2016 compared to 2012. However, white voters showed the lowest swing to the Republicans (1 percentage point), compared with African-Americans (7 percentage points), Latinos (8 percentage points), and Asian-Americans (11 percentage points).
“These shifts, which occurred within the broader framework of abstention, were driven largely by economic issues. Fifty-two percent of voters said that the economy was the most important issue in the election, far above the second most important issue at 18 percent. Racial and gender issues did not register, while sixty-eight percent of voters said their financial situation was the same or worse than it was four years ago. Thirty-nine percent said they were looking for a candidate who “can bring change,” and of these, 83 percent voted for Trump. This equals roughly 40 million votes, or two thirds of Trump’s total.
“Another indication that Trump was seen as the “change” candidate against the status quo is the fact that, of the 18 percent of voters who said they disliked both candidates, Trump won 49 percent to Clinton’s 29 percent. Fourteen percent said neither had the right temperament to be president, with Trump defeating Clinton 71 percent to 17 percent in this group. Remarkably, 57 percent of voters said they would be concerned or scared by a Trump presidency, but Trump still won 14 percent of these voters. These figures indicate the depth of the hatred that exists for the political establishment.
“The elections saw a massive shift in party support among the poorest and wealthiest voters. The share of votes for the Republicans amongst the most impoverished section of workers, those with family incomes under $30,000, increased by 10 percentage points from 2012. In several key Midwestern states, the swing of the poorest voters toward Trump was even larger: Wisconsin (17-point swing), Iowa (20 points), Indiana (19 points) and Pennsylvania (18 points).
“The swing to Republicans among the $30,000 to $50,000 family income range was 6 percentage points. Those with incomes between $50,000 and $100,000 swung away from the Republicans compared to 2012 by 2 points.
“The affluent and rich voted for Clinton by a much broader margin than they had voted for the Democratic candidate in 2012. Among those with incomes between $100,000 and $200,000, Clinton benefited from a 9-point Democratic swing. Voters with family incomes above $250,000 swung toward Clinton by 11 percentage points. The number of Democratic voters amongst the wealthiest voting block increased from 2.16 million in 2012 to 3.46 million in 2016—a jump of 60 percent…..”
Well there are a few interesting facts in there but as always you have to look at how they are interpreted.
For example: “Far larger in number than the vote for either candidate are the 99 million eligible voters who abstained from the 2016 election or voted for a third party. This is a measure of social discontent and not of apathy”
How do we know – this is just an interpretation – and didn’t turnout increase compared with 2012..
Your selective quotes point to shifts to the Republicans among ethnic groups and the poor and to Clinton among the wealthy – which is of course the impression that the current neo natnazikgb alliance is trying to create – what of course is omitted is that the poor and ethnic groups still favour the Democrats over the Republicans and the wealthy favoured Trump over Clinton. Yes the flows might mean something but you also have to look at the stocks – you are using one of the oldest statistical deceits to support your own political views: and not for the first time.
You ought to stick to abuse-it is a style of argument with which you are familiar.
I quoted these excerpts from the WSWS article because they directly contradict some of the lazier slanders being trotted out by Clinton apologists like yourself.
The Conservative commentator Justin Raimondo -http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/11/10/trump-won-foreign-policy-factor/
makes equally interesting points.
“…The one factor conspicuously missing from these expositions on the electorate’s romance with Trump is the attraction of his “America First” foreign policy stance. Indeed, Trump’s view that the US footprint abroad is too large and his vow to make it much smaller is what enraged the Washington, D.C. elites the most about his candidacy: a bevy of GOP foreign policy “experts” sent out at least two “open letters” excoriating Trump for his “isolationism” – the cardinal sin, according to neoconservative orthodoxy. This was the core of the Republican “Never Trump” faction’s complaint. And the Clintonites added their voices to this chorus, gladly welcoming the neoconservatives into their ranks.
“Yet the common assumption is that ordinary voters – precisely the sort of voters who turned out for Trump – don’t care about foreign policy, presumably because they’re too parochial and ignorant to even have the faintest inkling of anything that goes on beyond their immediate ken.
“This, of course, is one big reason why the media, the pollsters, and the pundits missed the biggest story of the last half century: they just didn’t get that Trump’s campaign against globalism meant a repudiation of America’s role as the world’s policeman – and that Trump’s supporters, after a decade and a half of constant warfare, fully understood and agreed with his “isolationism.”
“How many young people, born in the devastated towns and cities of the Rust Belt and the rural Midwest communities where Trumpism triumphed, have come back home from foreign wars minus a leg, an arm, or in a body bag? The media missed this aspect of the election for the simple reason that it isn’t their sons and daughters who go off to fight and die for the hubristic dreams of Beltway policy wonks….”
You should read it-he really is a dissident, not just an apologist for the powers that be and their media whores, like your splendid self.
“I quoted these excerpts from the WSWS article because they directly contradict some of the lazier slanders being trotted out by Clinton apologists like yourself.”
And what slanders might they be. Certainly not this one
“what of course is omitted is that the poor and ethnic groups still favour the Democrats over the Republicans and the wealthy favoured Trump over Clinton”
I should also add that you will have to search long and hard to find much support for Clinton from myself – I’d read too much of the works of the late great Christopher Hitchens to develop an enthusiasm for the Clinton family.
I do find interesting parallels behind your current interpretation of those of the Nazis in 1930s Germany – they also were quite keen to big up their support among the working class, which in the main stayed loyal to the Left, while at the same time both say their opponents were backed by big business which by the time Hitler came to power was solidly behind Hitler, they also had little time for identity politics and rather big on Nationalism.
Your dedication to Christopher Hitchens explains much about your politics.
You feel that the Nazis were not into identity politics, eh? I’d say they made a fetish of them.
As to your dislike of Clinton, it must be, like Hitchens’s, on personal grounds because you seem to support every one of her policies, from Libya and Syria to Cold War Russophobia , nuclear brinkmanship and the definition of the political grifter Trump as a Nazi.
I don’t think that I or Clinton have called Trump a Nazi. I did call Trump a proto Nazi yes but that is not the same thing.
You were right I missed out an ironic “a” before identity politics in the post to which you refer – and a “were” before rather. You are right that just like Trump, Putin et al they liked the little woman to stay at home and saw gays and others as deviants.
I am not a Russophile rather than a Russophobe – Putin is not Russia just like Hitler was not Germany and Trump is most certainly not the US.
The warmongers, Cameron and Blair appeared at the Cenotaph today. How dare they, the hypocrites.
Craig’s friend, the lawyer Gareth Peirce, spoke yesterday at the annual meeting of Veterans for Peace UK which was founded by Ben Griffin. The original organisation is American.
https://vfpuk.org/2016/vfp-uk-annual-public-conference/
The history of VFP. http://vfpuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Handbook-1.pdf
And did you support the commemoration at the Cenotaph?
The warmongers are on the run. Neocon warmonger Hillary lost. Now that he feels free to follow his own preferences and to defy the neocons, Obama has stopped supporting the jihadists in Syria. Russia and Assad have won. And that means that the Christians in Syria have also won.
Facile – perhaps you should ask yourself, in between rejoicing about the latest extension of the nationalist alliance, just how many wars nationalists of all their varying kinds have been responsible for over the years? Shouldn’t be too hard a question given your four degrees.
“The warmongers, Cameron and Blair appeared at the Cenotaph today. How dare they, the hypocrites.”
__________________________
They certainly did – together with Mr Jeremy Corbyn, among many others – representatives of all strands of British life and society both military and civilian and only “war-mongering” to those whose disaffection trumps common sense and reality.
I’m sure that many readers – certainly the silent majority of readers – will agree with me that today’s Remembrance Day ceremony was – as it always is – a deeply moving moment. Far from being a celebration of war (or victory) it is in my opinion remarkably non-militaristic occasion and a public recognition of the sacrifices (willing or otherwise) made by men and women who died or who were injured so that we might live.
To denigrate this commemoration is to sully their memory in a most disgusting and hateful way.
And while on the topic: now that the armed forces are no longer assured by National Service but by a volonteer, professional corps of men and women, it is surely even more incumbent on govts of all political persuasions to do their very best for those former soldiers, sailors and airmen who have been injured in combat and for the families of those who give up their lives. In my opinion, nothing is too good for them and they should not have to want for anything.
If it is such a commemoration, it is particularly revolting to find it being treated as a fashion show – where people are judged and derided on their dress as they pay their respects. You will recall Michael Foot was treated to a particularly tasteless savaging by the Tory gutter-press a number of years back, where contemptuous hacks were far more interested in Foot’s overcoat than the actual proceedings.
I recall it well, Glenn.
Should we interpret your comment as signifying disagreement with what I said, or as an attempt to divert, or that you simply wanted to see your gravatar again?
No answer required!
Leave Glenn be, Habbabkuk. He’s still suffering from the tremendous butt-hurt of Hillary losing to the Donald.
” now that the armed forces are no longer assured by National Service but by a volonteer, professional corps of men and women, it is surely even more incumbent on govts of all political persuasions to do their very best for those former soldiers, sailors and airmen who have been injured in combat and for the families of those who give up their lives. ”
Why? Surely those conscripted-forced-to take part in wars deserve at least equal consideration with those who make a living out of war?
Habba’s hatred of ordinary people is instinctive and unreasonable, it breaks out even in these tedious and sentimental rehearsals of what the ruling class call patriotism, in honour no doubt of Dr Johnson who first discovered it to be a hiding place for scoundrels.
“Why? Surely those conscripted-forced-to take part in wars deserve at least equal consideration with those who make a living out of war?”
___________________
Let me try and help you, Bevs.
A conscript army, as in the UK during WW2, means the involvement in fighting of a substantial proportion of the male, able-bodied population: see it as a form of taking on the responsibility of one’s own defence.
That is very different from the case of a very small proportion of the population (what proportion of the military-age population do the armed forces currently represent?) taking on the task of defending the great majority of the population.
That is why, in an age of non-conscript military forces, those who have served their country – and their families- deserve special consideration.
It is attitudes like yours which display an astonishing contempt and hatred for both the military and civilians.
And now get thee gone to this afternoon’s meeting of your local Trotskyite cell! 🙂
let me try and help you habbakuk
‘A conscript army, as in the UK during WW2, means the involvement in fighting of a substantial proportion of the male, able-bodied population: see it as a form of taking on the responsibility of one’s own defence.’
And a considerate amount of military objectors and those who rioted in the ship yards, who were given the choice to go underground and volunteer in mines for nowt, forced labour or death was the option, was it not?
The ‘Professional’ armed forces now are as bad as Hitler’s Storm troopers, ‘just taking orders’, no matter that they are illegal and immoral. I used to greatly respect the Armed Forces, particularly the RAF. Now I do not respect them, as they bomb and drone and shoot people across the globe because they have chosen to take the Queen’s shilling.
At least in the Blitz, there was an RAF, barrage balloons, antiaircraft batteries and bomb shelters; imagine being bombarded in an Afghan village, by even deadlier ordinance, with no air force to intercept the fighter-bombers, no anti-aircraft guns, perhaps a sprinkling of ‘manpads’, and no bomb shelters?
And these murderers are supposedly ‘protecting’ the UK? Trained killers, willing to kill and torture whomever they are ordered to.
I would happily go to a ‘Remembrance’ ceremony to all the people our armed forces have murdered, but want nothing to do with the murderers ‘Cenotaph’ ceremony (I do respect the people who died in WWI & WWII, in defence of the country, of course).
Respect for the fallen, yes indeed, especially those who fell in WWI, the war of bickering Royal cousins, which cost lives of millions of ill informed innocent men, on all sides.
WWII, cost the lives of millions of soldiers, as well as civilians, on both sides, and thise who fell deserve out greatest respect.
However, post WWII, British interventions, cannot on most part be claimed as noble, though many British soldiers fell on those occasions as well. Those men who fell, deserve our respect as well, but the government’s of the times deserve our contempt, as do Blair and Cameron, both men have the blood of many innocent civilians on their hands.
What does it say about the British establishment, and its line of thinking, that both of those men can openly attend a ceremony for the fallen.
Bliar’s and Camerloon’s hypocrisy lies in their both having sent British forces out to kill and get killed in illegal, immoral wars or interventions based on lies, and they were and still are completely aware that they were/are based on lies.
Often I get interference when watching RT. Terrible picture, frozen , plus garbled speech …… Checked other channels they have no problems,
Habba was up early- back from communion I suspect, his conscience wiped clean in the confessional and spewing lies. At 8.52
“If “President” Assad Jnr (currently CEO of the firm Assad & Sons, estl. 1970, “tyranny, murder, torture and expulsions our specialty; poison gas and barrel bombs made on the premises”) had been removed at the beginning, the situation in Syria would be very different to what it is now.”
Let us just examine a couple of those assertions.
“Poison gas” for example. There is no evidence that the Syrian government forces have used poison gas. Their stocks were destroyed after the first attack-carried out by Habba’s favoured wahhabi militias came in a cloud of CIA financed propaganda designed to justify US bombing. It was one of Hillary’s signature policy initiatives at State.
The facts about poison gas use are clear: NATO supplies its proxies with the precursors needed to manufacture it. They did so in Syria and, famously, they provided it, in enormous quantities , to Saddam Hussein, their ally, who used gas against Iran (which the US paid Iraq to attack) and the Kurds, before they became Israeli allies.
So poison gas, far from being an Assad specialty, is a specialty of the Empire about which Habba has such tender feelings.
As to barrel bombs, they do have a bad reputation but not because Syria, running out of war materiel, improvised them for its helicopters to drop on terrorist defensive positions. Honesty compels us to recall that it was Habba’s friends in Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing in 1948 who invented the barrel bomb and rolled them into the courtyards of Palestinian homes where they exploded and killed large numbers of families whose land was needed by a well known racist project which still going strong.
Barrel bombs were also used, by the proto-likudniks against British Army barracks to terrorise National Servicemen. That is where they came from.
Well, Bevs, it’s fairly clear that you would like the family firm of Assad & Sons to change its business card. 🙂
” I felt then ,as I feel now, that the politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than mass murder”.
well spoken Harry Patch. He was aghast at the show of hypocrisy during Remembrance day ceremonies and he said so, a man with honour who was not scared to speak his mind, opposed to war all his life.
Guten Tag, Nevermind!
“..Harry Patch. He was aghast at the show of hypocrisy during Remembrance day ceremonies and he said so….”
_________________________
Could you take a minute to explain how the quotation you supplied (” I felt then ,as I feel now, that the politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than mass murder”) is indicative of being aghast at a show of hypocrisy?
Since you obviously have access to Mr Patch’s various obiter dicta, could you perhaps find another quotation which better demonstrates that Mr Patch saw the Remembrance service as a show of hypocrisy?
Thanks in advance and now please cease diverting.
Some libtard is now running Harry Patch’s Twitter account, which provides a constant stream of lefty bollocks under the guise of an old war veteran.
But does Nevermind object to this country’s war against Hitler? Or any of the other attempts by Germany at unifying Europe under German rule?
again you fail to read, Habby, he specified politicians and he did say it during a remembrance ceremony.
Blair and Cameron are hypocrites and warmongers, they deserve to be sprayed poppy red just as the bowed to the cenotaph.
Nevermind thank you.
Raworth interviewed Johnson Beharry before the service began. He was wearing his Victoria Cross. He normally wears a replica as the original is kept at Buckingham Palace.
He said his proudest moment was escorting Harry Patch at the Cenotaph in 2008.
The segment has been deleted from the recording. Isn’t that strange!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b082sbd0/remembrance-sunday-the-cenotaph-2016
A brave and modest young man. You see he has been through his own hell like many other ex members of the services. His first marriage was affected also.
‘On 11 November 2008 Beharry acted as an escort to 110-year-old Harry Patch, then one of only three remaining British survivors of the First World War, at the Cenotaph in London’s Whitehall to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the signing of the armistice which ended that conflict. On 11 November 2009, Beharry, and Mark Donaldson—the first recipient of the Victoria Cross for Australia (though not the first Australian recipient of the Victoria Cross)—handed a wreath to the Queen during a service in Westminster Abbey which marked the deaths in 2009 of the last three veterans of the First World War resident in the United Kingdom, Bill Stone, Henry Allingham and Harry Patch. The wreath was then laid on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior.
In December 2008 he drove his car into a lamppost at 100 mph in a suicide attempt, depressed and haunted by nightmares of his time in Iraq. He escaped unharmed and sought help from the organization Combat Stress. He later spoke out urging similarly-affected veterans to do the same.’
‘Beharry was born in Grenada, and has four brothers and three sisters. He moved to the United Kingdom in 1999. He is divorced from his first wife Lynthia Beharry, who is also from Grenada. Beharry said, in an official statement released through the Ministry of Defence, that the trauma of his war experiences had caused difficulties in his marriage.’
He is remarried happily.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Beharry
Powerful words by Heathcote Williams
When war criminal Tony Blair met Harry Patch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKZjvyDR-E
Stop the War Coalition
5 Feb 2013
Words by Heathcote Williams. Video and narration by Alan Cox. To see the full 18 minute video Harry Patch: Anti War Hero, go to: http://bit.ly/Xes7Zk
Sharp Ears
“….aworth interviewed Johnson Beharry before the service began. He was wearing his Victoria Cross. He normally wears a replica as the original is kept at Buckingham Palace.
He said his proudest moment was escorting Harry Patch at the Cenotaph in 2008.
The segment has been deleted from the recording. Isn’t that strange!”
________________________
I happened to be able to watch this year’s Remembrance Day service and listed to Johnson Beharry being interviewed.
So perhaps I can set Sharp Ears’ typically falsified “record” straight (albeit at the risk of encouraging this mini-wave of diversion).
Mr Beharry recalled that when he met Harry Patch in 2008, Harry Patch told him that he (ie Harry Patch) felt honoured and proud to have met him. Whereupon Mr Beharry replied with words along the following lines “You are mistaken, Mr Patch, it is I (ie Johnson Beharry) who feels honoured to meet you”.
As Sharp Ears would have known if she had bothered to watch the programme live (as did millions of her fellow citizens).
*****************************************
Your recollection Habba of the conversation between Johnson Beharry & Sophie Raworth this morning corresponds with mine- and the ceremony as a whole was, as you say, deeply moving- Beharry’s humility during his interview being an integral part of that.
Thank you for that confirmation, Old Mark.
Will Sharp Ears (perhaps not so sharp after all?) now have the grace to apologise for attempting to mislead?
Habba.
Why draw out a comment with a positive note then drown it again with a pointless jab?
I watched the programme and that is why I reported Sophie Raworth’s conversation had been deleted from the recording.
Wake up in the back of the class. How else would I have known about the conversation if I had not watched it live. Duh!
Mrs Raworth conversed with quite a few people.
Since you watched both the live programme ans the recording, can you please tell us if the conversation with Mr Beharry was the only conversation omitted from the recording or were there other conversations which were also omitted?
If the latter, why did you think it fit to single out the conversation with Mr Beharry?
Looking forward to reading your response. Thank you in advance.
So Nigel Farage, has become the first British politician to meet president-elect Donald Trump. I’m not surprised in the least, as both men, have several things in common, their firm stance on immigration, and their paraphrases, of make America/Britain great again.
Of course Farage’s UKIP, has much in common with Theresa May ‘s Tory government, which inturn, probably means Trump and May, will get on very well indeed, a kind of Thatcher, Reagan relationship could be on the cards.
So what does it all mean for those of us who are more European, than Atlantacist? Trump has indicated that the USA provides too much of a military presence, and that the EU nations need to pull their weight more.
I say Trump’s victory is a golden opportunity for the EU to open up more ground between Europe and America.
You really haven’t a clue what you are talking about.
I can’t stand his accent either ( I assume very Northern Irish, and yet I love the soft Southern Irish accent).
But Joe Quinn is Class.
https://www.sott.net/article/333594-President-Trump-Is-A-Wake-Up-Call-But-Not-For-The-Reasons-You-Think
Extract
“Here we need to note the clear distinction between the working-class ‘rednecks’ in the USA, and some of those in a more upwardly mobile financial position. Most people who voted for Trump were the ‘rednecks’ and they did so because they are feeling the negative effects of 8 years of the Obama government’s ‘liberal’ economic and foreign policies that have continued unchanged since the ‘conservative’ Bush years (you might wonder why that is and how it works – hint: the president isn’t the ‘decider’, by a long shot). Those policies coincided with the 2008 ‘crash’ and the bank ‘bailouts’ that saw millions of American homes repossessed and many traditional manufacturing job losses, both of which disproportionately affected the poor.
It was precisely this marginalization of the most vulnerable in society that was behind the Brexit vote in the UK earlier this year. Both the British people’s vote to leave the EU and American people’s vote for Trump were not primarily votes for racism or xenophobia but votes against the neoliberal status quo under which the poor saw their living standards drop further and everyone saw war and death abroad increase.
To underline the bipartisan nature of these protest votes; in the US it was the nominally ‘left’ government candidate that was rejected while in the UK the protest vote occurred under the nominally ‘right’ Conservative government. The point being; the supposed ‘left’/’right’ political paradigm in Western democracies no longer exists. It has been replaced by a combination of neoliberalism and neoconservatism, two fancy words that describe ideologies that together form the ‘elite’ project for transnational globalization and domination of the world’s resources by corporations and their political friends through the ‘projection’ of US military power around the world.”
Some of the rest of you, whilst I do not doubt your sincerity – seem to be trapped in a Left Wing Boat – as if that is all you have ever known – like sheep in a cattle truck…and you haven’t yet worked out where you are going…
Another nice green field maybe?
Its your brain, you have got to use it and break free.
Tony
Marine le Pen has said, that there is no difference between her Front National party and Britain’s UKIP party. Le Pen’s interview with Andrew Marr, was broadcast today on Rememberance Sunday, a day that recalls those who fell, to the bullets and bombs of fascism, yet the BBC, allowed le Pen’s far right rhetoric to be broadcast to the nation.
Of course the British government, has in recent weeks displayed its xenophobic attributes, at the Tory conference gathering, which has become a sprinboard for violent racist assaults across the British isles.
Donald Trump’s victory has reinfirced that same dogma across the US, and a spike in racial attacks has manifested itself on the streets of America.
Are we seeing the meteoric rise of far right xenophobic parties across the Western world? And more worringly, are the electorate supportive of there boardering on fascist anti-immigration/refugee attitudes.
In my opinion, if le Pen, and Wilders comes to office, then there will be a huge purge of refugees/immigrants, from Europe and possibly America, which could be at times violent.
Remember that Europe including the British, brought this on themselves. They brought us to this (possible) point, by following the US blindly into unjust war and regime change, time after time, even now they are trying desperately to regime change in Syria, and millions of refugees, have fled to Europe, Turkey and surroundung nations.
If you are looking for someone to blame with regards to the huge rise of refugees/immigrants into your country, which has no doubt put great stress on public services and infrastructure, then look to your government.
RoS
Could you pinpoint the examples of ‘far right rhetoric’ you so objected to in Mme Le Pen’s interview with your countryman ?
Of course she made clear her objections to any further immigration into France (which you doubtless think a ‘far right’ position- even though a majority of the French largely agree with her on that point.) However, despite Marr’s attempts to trip her up on this subject, she refused to endorse any mass expulsion of France’s existing muslim population (which would be an act congruent with fascism/the far right)- something which you gormlessly mention as a real possibility should she win the Presidency next year. At other times in the interview Mme Le Pen repeatedly supported secular values and the virtues of a multipolar world- neither of these beliefs being traditionally associated with the mainstream,let alone the extreme, right.
Perhaps you could link to the iplayer and point out at which junctures Mme Le Pen’s fascism manifests itself- or else provide direct quotations from the translator’s voiceover ?
If you don’t do this I shall assume your remarks about far right rhetoric are simply another form of rhetoric- namely the ill informed, vapid, sloganising variety.
Only you would gullible enough to believe the likes of Marine le Pen, has softened her and her party’s stance. Most political commentators place the FN to the far right.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Front_(France)
But of course the party claims otherewise, next you’ll believe UKIP and Farage are pro-immigration. Or Trump didn’t really touch women inappropriately, Or that Tony blair is really just misunderstood.
Your blind naivety never ceases to amaze me.
Stop blustering and answer Old Mark’s question, please.
Old Mark asked you the following:
“Perhaps you could link to the iplayer and point out at which junctures Mme Le Pen’s fascism manifests itself- or else provide direct quotations from the translator’s voiceover ”
He did not ask you to link to Wikipedia.
I suspect he’s successfully called your bluff, eh – but feel free to prove me wrong!
Just to help RoS a liitle – I would have thought the following 2 comments made by Le Pen in her interview might in different circumstances come out of the mouth of other fascist looking for a new world order and the overthrow of elites
Donald Trump’s win ought to be seen as ‘an additional stone in the building of a new world destined to replace the old one’
‘if I can draw a parallel with France, then yes, I wish that in France also the people upend the table, around which the elites are dividing up what should go to the French people.’
They could of course be taken to mean something else – but given Marine’s past history, her family connections and the behaviour of others in her Putin financed party I think not.
I believe that these various attempts to divert (Harry Patch, etc..) amply justify a repost of the gist of my original comment, namely:
“I’m sure that many readers – certainly the silent majority of readers – will agree with me that today’s Remembrance Day ceremony was – as it always is – a deeply moving moment. Far from being a celebration of war (or victory) it is in my opinion remarkably non-militaristic occasion and a public recognition of the sacrifices (willing or otherwise) made by men and women who died or who were injured so that we might live.
To denigrate this commemoration is to sully their memory in a most disgusting and hateful way.
And while on the topic: now that the armed forces are no longer assured by National Service but by a volonteer, professional corps of men and women, it is surely even more incumbent on govts of all political persuasions to do their very best for those former soldiers, sailors and airmen who have been injured in combat and for the families of those who give up their lives. In my opinion, nothing is too good for them and they should not have to want for anything.”
Suck on it!
I think many readers here, despite the diversion from the thread by amplifying today’s show of the hypocrites united from our rather tetchy habbakuk, will agree with harry patch.
And we don’t need no more warmongering, not by NATO mobilising 300.000 soldiers on sweet FA,, not by Blair and his ME friends of the apocalypse, and not by Cameron and his mate Hillary of Libyan Killing fame. Trump has not done anything yet, but I’m sure he’s aspiring to join the lot.
How can you be so sure unless you’ve succumbed to local opinion again.
He’s already on record saying he may not honor NATO obligations. Weren’t you the one who poo-pooed the notion of Munich’s deja vu all over again? You flip-flop more than Trump
I could not care less whether he does or doesn’t, its been modified into an attack dog and I don’t agree with its existence. Europe needs NATO like a hole in the head.
non-sequiter…..you have no idea what Trump will do….just admit it.
What sort of signal do you think it sends to Putin when Newt Gingrich, who is touted by some to be Trump’s Secretary of State, describes Estonia as a suburb of Saint Petersburg? (it is actually about 100 miles away). And what impact do you think NATO breaking up might have? Remember how those who supported Russia’s agression in Ukraine described Ukrainian as a village dialect?
Just like the minions of the UN, who can’t afford to give their fair share of cash, are more than willing to bite the hand that funds it, so too Trump feels NATO members are willfully shy of generosity for keeping their bumbershoot open.
The post-Holiday diet will make some fat bodies do some trimming down.
I expect if Marine Le Pen, does manage to become the first woman President of France, she will get France out of NATO,
I don’t think they have ever been too keen on it, flip-flopping over the years.
The one the French always wanted to be included in was
FIVE EYES.
That will continue, even if The Donald semi-disengages with NATO
There are towns about 100 miles from New York City from which people commute to work in New York.
Lysias
I suppose you think that is funny, but as an educated man surely you can do better – do you understand that Estonia has a quite different language and culture from that of Russia, leaving aside that the fact that the infrastructure in that part of the world would not support such a commute. What will come next – Dover is a suburb of Brussels, Bratislava is a suburb of Vienna, Nice is a suburb of Genoa, Prague is a suburb of Dresden, Buffalo is a suburb of Toronto, Tijuana is a suburb of San Diego etc. etc.
But hey if you want to be aligned with that intellectual and moral giant Newt Gingrich don’t let me stop you.
http://www.alternet.org/story/15https://newrepublic.com/article/98097/newt-gingrich-scandal-hypocrisy3386/10_of_the_craziest_things_newt_gingrich_has_ever_said
I do not want to go to war for Estonia. It was a provocation to extend NATO that far.
And it was even more of a provocation to sponsor that coup in the Ukraine.
The neocons are insanely irresponsible. And Hillary was their candidate.
There, that’s where I meant to put the comment. At least if it now ends up in the right place.
@ Habbabkuk November 13, 2016 at 15:08
“In my opinion, nothing is too good for them and they should not have to want for anything.”
Cheers Habba send me a couple of bottles of your best malt.
There is nothing the MSM hacks can say about Jeremy today.
He looked very smart and wore a poppy.
He walked briskly.
He laid his wreath.
He bowed and was pensive.
He returned to his place amongst the warmongers.
Oh! I was wrong. They had their go at him before the service began. Execrable stuff. Are these tabloids not scum?
‘Corbyn appears to dance a jig as he waits for Remembrance Day parade
Daily Mail – 2 hours ago
Jeremy Corbyn was pictured apparently dancing outside Downing Streer today as he waited …
Corbyn DANCES his way into Downing Street as he attends Remembrance Sunday
The Sun – 3 hours ago’
Corbyn: I wasn’t dancing ahead of Cenotaph service
Belfast Newsletter – 1 min ago
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn denied ‘dancing’ ahead of the remembrance service
14:59 Sunday 13 November 2016
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has hit back at claims he was “dancing” in Whitehall ahead of the Remembrance service at the Cenotaph. A spokesman for Mr Corbyn claimed that pictures purporting to show the leader of the opposition “jigging” ahead of the national memorial had been “cropped”.
Mr Corbyn’s spokesman told the Press Association: “Jeremy wasn’t dancing. He was gesticulating whilst talking to Second World War veteran George Durack.” The spokesman said Labour was considering taking the matter to the Independent Press Standards Organisation.
Mr Corbyn joined in with God Save The Queen after previously attracting criticism for not singing the anthem at the Battle of Britain 75th anniversary commemorations last year.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/corbyn-i-wasn-t-dancing-ahead-of-cenotaph-service-1-7677759
The above is an irrelevant waste of bandwidth and a further attempt to divert from the subject, which was mainly the intensely moving, noble and astonishingly non-militaristic character of the Remembrance Sunday service.
The UK-haters will defile any and every thing.
I pronounce them anathema.
The Sun’s lying is found out.
The Sun teams up with a Labour MP to exploit war veterans in the latest anti-Corbyn smear
September 27th, 2016
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/09/27/sun-teams-labour-mp-exploit-war-veterans-latest-anti-corbyn-smear/
The ‘journalist’ concerned is Tom Newton Dunn, Murdoch’s ‘Political Editor’ at the Sun. He appears on Sky News (another Murdoch entity) reviewing the papers. Urbane and refined, you would not imagine he is capable of producing such dross.
What a waste of an education at Marlborough and the University of Edinburgh,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Newton_Dunn
I repeat: will you now have the common decency to apologise?
The mud has been thrown and has stuck.
Today, we hear that the Sun and the Mail have taken their lies down.
November 14, 2016
Sun and Mail Online both take down stories claiming Jeremy Corbyn was ‘dancing a jig’ on way to Cenotaph
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sun-and-mail-online-both-take-down-stories-claiming-jeremy-corbyn-was-dancing-a-jig-on-way-to-cenotaph/
“Mr Corbyn joined in with God Save The Queen”
____________
I’m sure Mr Corbyn, would’ve been going through the motions mouthing that god awful dirge.
@ Republicofscotland November 13, 2016 at 15:27
He may well have been genuinely singing it, horrified by who (or what) may come after her.
Very good comment Sharp Ears.
Thanks RoS.
Not many people know that there is a cemetery in Gaza that contains the graves of over 3,000 British WW1 soldiers. A relative of mine visited it some years back and found it both moving and beautiful for its peace.
It was tended lovingly by a Palestinian gardener who was 76 when this was written.
Tending the war graves of Gaza City
Harriet Sherwood
Ibrahim Jeradeh took care of the cemetery outside Gaza City for 45 years: it’s both a picnic spot and testament to generations of conflict
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/18/war-graves-gaza-city
Note the damage that was sustained in 2006 and in 2009 following Cast Lead and the compensation paid to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
Thank you Sharp Ears, for that rather moving comment.
Though don’t expect Mr Jeradeh, to get a positive comment from the usual suspects in here.
And it was even more of a provocation to sponsor that coup in the Ukraine.
The neocons are insanely irresponsible. And Hillary was their candidate.
As we remember the dead, and those who have suffered serious injury in recent conflicts, (the recent conflicts are of a dubious nature in my opinion ). One has to wonder why those brave men who’ve been fortunate to return, home find themselves homeless and penniless, on occasion.
As we salute those who fell, we often let slip through the net those who returned, those men (mostly) can find themselves sleeping in the doorways of shops.
It is a sad indictment, that we care for the fallen (in a sense) more than we do for those who’ve returned broken or psychologically traumatised at times.
Still there’s always money to renew Trident.
Nothing can be more hallucinatory than all the jaw-boning about Trump having some kind of mandate to do anything when he lost the popular vote by a signficant margin, alienated all kinds of voters by all kind of complaints about women, Mexicans, and other minorities, threatened to deport many millions of undocumented residents, promised to end Obamacare, apparently stole the Electoral College vote by a coordinated bribery campaign, hid the fact as best he could by complaining that the Democrats would rig the election, there would be a rebellion if they still won, etc., ad nauseam.
This is nothing more than the doing of a needlessly less violent dictator like a Hitler.
Trump and his minions will be quite lucky if they are not impeached and removed from office, imprisoned for criminal acts, and subjected to violent opposition.
Tea-Baggers are a fickle bunch. They change their heroes as well as their underwear every week if it’s necessary. Maybe Trump’s business negotiation skills makes him aware that the best deal is where both sides are just a little unhappy.
Too unhappy might result in the machete and pitchfork alternate future.
Here’s a prime example of the rise of xenophobic incidents that are occuring more frequently across the Western world.
Trump, Farage, May, le Pen and Wilders, will only add fuel to fires of hatred.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-muslim-teacher-receives-anonymous-note-about-her-headscarf-hang-yourself-with-it-a7414656.html
Not just in the Western World – racist attacks haven’t exactly fallen away in Russia, in no small part encouraged by those close to Putin
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/world/europe/28moscow.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/12/little-obama-jokes-soviet-era-racism-remains-alive-in-russia
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/10/why-russia-is-growing-more-xenophobic/280766/
It is quite noticeable that the level of casual racism in Russia increases every time I make my now occasional visits to Moscow.
Why don’t you help Putin out, and stop going back to Russia!
Because that is where my wife’s family live – and she and my children are all dual nationals.
Why don’t you go and seek political asylum from Putin? I’m sure he likes and occasional taste of fruitcake as most Russians have a sweet tooth.
I was just making fun of your claiming that racism increases every time you go back to Russia, knowing full well that you did not intend to make it look like you were the cause of the effect,
Instead of laughing to yourself, though, you just attack me as some kind of fruitcake who needs political asylum there.
I do not need any asylum, though I am currently stuck with the insane here.
I work on the basis that one poor joke deserves another.
RD.
Agreed, Russian’s have terrible record when it comes to abusing non-caucasian people.
Why didn’t Steve Pieczenik show his face for nearly 20 years?
Maybe he was just telling the truth from real personal experience of what was going on, and he wanted to get 20 years older.
Good Man
http://www.stevepieczenik.com/
Tony
Sorry, Tony, but this guy doesn’t seem to have learned anything while he was gone, as his suggested core of officials is even worse than the ones he rejected.
The core of Piecenik’s problems is thinking that the most aggressive military people are the country’s solution when they are its leading cause.
I should of course also have commented earlier on on how well Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and HRH Prince Philip were looking at today’s Remembrance Day ceremony. And to think that they are both over ninety years old!
Some disaffected carpers and ill-wishers will of course say “no wonder, they’ve both had the best of everything” but Habbabkuk thinks it a question of good genes and the inner peace and satisfaction of having done an important job well.
The grandchildren are handsome lads as well. And intelligent with it; how indeed better to sum up NATO’s efforts in Afghanistan than “we do bad things to bad people”?
Vive la Reine!
Yes, they seem so benign, but when you are bred and reared as though cattle, their hooves pack a mighty punch to the unwary bystander.
The word I would have chosen is “dignified”. But let “benign” be dded if that is your inclination.
of course, that wasn’t the quibble.
@ Habbabkuk November 13, 2016 at 16:56
Another theory is that the Devil looks after it’s own (look at Kissinger, George H W Bush, Zbigniew Brzezinski – Harry Patch was the exception that proves the rule). There are rumours about how Her Majesty stays so well…..
Oh you talk to Habab as an equal?
Exsqueeze me…
@ Habbabkuk November 13, 2016 at 16:56
‘….And intelligent with it; how indeed better to sum up NATO’s efforts in Afghanistan than “we do bad things to bad people”?’
To be truthful, the last quote should read “we do bad things to innocent people and Freedom Fighters battling against an alien occupation”.
Why were we there? To help the US ensure pipeline routes, control and massive increase of the poppy/heroin harvest and mineral deposits. Yuck! You support such death and destruction – shame on you.
The Taliban are good people, Barbara?
He said “innocent people”.
No-one who comes from Afghanistan can possibly be good since they don’t have good genes and the inner peace and satisfaction of having done an important job well.
Barbara needs to understand that the Taliban may wear long hair, but they sure ain’t no Barbie-dolls. The Taliban were a creation of a State Actor, namely the ISI/Pak Army. They were the experiment that provided proof of concept for Al qaida, followed by the wretched ISIS; interesting they are just one letter away from the equally wretched ISI. Given Craig’s study of the area, I do not recall him ever being critical of the Pak Govt or the ISI/Taliban combine.
After all these decades, does the World (and this blog) still have to wisen up to Waziristan?
A snip @ £19.99 as modelled by P Harry Wales-Hewitt*
http://www.tactical-kit.co.uk/tactical-tailor-bad-things-cap-6009-p.asp
* Nearly all the Army brass who appeared yesterday had double barrelled names.
Oh, oh, oh, it’s a lovely war,
Who wouldn’t be a soldier, eh?
Oh, it’s a shame to take the pay;
As soon as reveille is gone,
We feel just as heavy as lead,
But we never get up till the sergeant
Brings us breakfast up to bed.
https://www.phil.muni.cz/angl/gw/warww.html#Oh
Oh What a Lovely War: the show that shook Britain
Joan Littlewood’s pioneering 1963 musical about the first world war not only changed attitudes towards the conflict, it remade British theatre. As the show gets a loving revival, Michael Billington examines what makes Oh What a Lovely War great
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2014/feb/17/oh-what-a-lovely-war-stratford-east
Sharp Ears November 13, 2016 at 16:19
‘I watched the programme and that is why I reported Sophie Raworth’s conversation had been deleted from the recording.
Wake up in the back of the class. How else would I have known about the conversation if I had not watched it live. Duh!’
That reminds me of when I watched the Premier of ‘Death of a Nation: The Timor Conspiracy’ by John Pilger and David Munro at a cinema; I was stunned to see Pope John Paul II personally give Holy Communion to General Beni Murdani, the architect of the illegal, murderous invasion and 25-year long genocidal occupation.
But when the documentary was shown on TV – voila – that little clip had been removed!
So when I heard the film was going to be shown at a University in Cambridge, I went there to watch it, and photographed the screen when JP II ‘did the business’. I still have the picture, very bad quality but both individuals are recognizable.
And another one bites the dust, three or four in the last week.
Bulgaria PM to quit after setback in presidential poll