Stunning Admission from Obama on Wikileaks 203

In his final press conference, beginning around 8 minutes 30 seconds in, Obama admits that they have no evidence of how WikiLeaks got the DNC material. This undermines the stream of completely evidence-free nonsense that has been emerging from the US intelligence services this last two months, in which a series of suppositions have been strung together to make unfounded assertions that have been repeated again and again in the mainstream media.

Most crucially of all Obama refers to “The DNC emails that were leaked”. Note “leaked” and not “hacked”. I have been repeating that this was a leak, not a hack, until I am blue in the face. William Binney, former Technical Director of the NSA, has asserted that were it a hack the NSA would be able to give the precise details down to the second it occurred, and it is plain from the reports released they have no such information. Yet the media has persisted with this nonsense “Russian hacking” story.

Obama’s reference to the “the DNC emails that were leaked” appears very natural, fluent and unforced. It is good to have the truth finally told.

Liked this article? Please share using the links below. Then View Latest Posts

Allowed HTML - you can use: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

203 thoughts on “Stunning Admission from Obama on Wikileaks

1 2 3
  • Anthony Galligani

    From what I’ve been reading there is indeed evidence of hacking, but attempts to identify the actual perpetrator or their affiliation with the Russia government has not been successful. That doesn’t mean there isn’t strong reason to believe that Russia has been behind the leaks/hacks, especially considering the circumstances. The president and other government sources may not have shared all they know. But it is in every American’s best interest that the source of the hacks be determined and we should all support ongoing efforts to locate the source of the leaks/hacks.

    “There is strong evidence indicating that Democratic email accounts were breached via phishing messages, and that specific malware was spread across DNC computers. There’s even evidence that the attackers are the same group that’s been spotted attacking other targets in the past. ”

    • MDub

      I believe the DNC emails were leaks. Most likely given to WL by Seth Rich. Podesta may have been hacked. But it is damn near impossible to figure out the source of such a hack.

    • xAnonx

      No there is no “strong reason to believe” quite a stupid argument you make. Either you have evidence or you dont.

    • MK Barrera

      It’s quite possible that the problems originated within the government. The intelligence agencies (all 17 of them) are often at war with each other. I posted this link a few minutes ago, but here it is again. It’s anonymous but seems to have originated with a knowledgeable person.

    • steve

      Did Craig Murray say that He, himself met with a DNC employee in D.C. where he was handed the leaked dnc emails before he personally gave them to wikileaks?

    • richard webster

      lol you still think its really strong to believe lol take your loss and go to your safe space

    • Orion Smith

      Who cares who put Podesta’s emails out there? The contents are what is important. Because of the leaks, the world got to make up their own minds if they want to believe in Podesta and Hillary’s guilt or not. Clearly the DNC’s world is now imploding and everyone who isn’t on team Hillary is gaining massive strength every day and banding together. Looks like the world is smart enough to realize when massive wrong doing is taking place after all.

      Again, regardless of how they got released, the emails made it clear that the weaponry ISIS uses is all provided by the Obama administration. We also know that the Obama administration was ok with ISIS gaining strength to threaten Assad thanks to John Kerry saying so on tape. It paints a dirty picture of them sitting back and watching ISIS kill the Yazidis and thousands of innocent people in the hopes that it will soon take over the rest of Syria to wipe out Assad. The plan failed and we have refugees everywhere now and many large scale problems to deal with including a large surge in radical Islam.

    • Kim Tait

      Considering the fbi nor the cia havde had an opportunity to look for forensic evidence proving the dnc was even hacked at all and have had to take those KNOWN liars word for it, exactly how do you cone to that conclusion?

  • nevermind

    The English are conditioned to being lied to, the trouble with their undemocratic system, they don’t mind if parties cheat them, commit fraud, or become lobby fodder to multinationals, ignore some Human rights in Bahrain Yemen,etc., whilst protecting the murderous regimes who cause these crimes.

    We don’t care if PM’s lie to parliament or order to murder hundreds of thousands in foreign countries, anyway its all in the past, innit?

    For anyone who like to call Mr. Rusbridger to account, here is a date for you. Lies are Guardianteed….

    Alan Rusbridger

    Friday 24th February 2017

    Alan Rusbridger was editor-in-chief of Guardian News & Media from 1995 – 2015 and is now Principal of Lady Margaret Hall at the University of Oxford. He is the author of three children’s books, the co-author, with Ronan Bennett, of the two-part BBC One drama, Fields of Gold and has written a full-length animation film script and a play about Beethoven.

    Venue: Thomas Paine Study Centre
    Time: 7pm (doors at 6.30pm)
    Free to attend, all welcome and no need to register in advance

    • Anonymous Coward

      You really don’t understand how this works, do you? WikiLeaks merely vets and releases information that leakers provide to them.

    • RobG

      lysias, in the past Trump has been extremely hostile to Assange, and Trump’s cabinet is stuffed full of batshit crazies who would like nothing better than to see Assange put up against a wall and shot.

      This is why Assange sought and was granted political asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London (because his life was in danger), and he’s been holed-up there for years; that is until last October (at the height of the Wikileaks releases of the Podesta e-mails, with the promise of more to come) when his internet connection was severed and lots of other weird things happened.

      But I won’t go into all this, because I know many people on this board don’t want to hear it, even though it’s staring you straight in the face. I will just say that there’s no way that Assange would be willingly extradited to the USA.

      And on a legal note, I believe there’s still one charge pending against Assange, which is part of the European Arrest Warrant that was issued against him by a bent Prosecutor in Sweden. In the European Union EU law takes precedence over all other international law, so Assange can’t be extradited to the US until matters emanating from Sweden are sorted out.

      There’s a very strong smell of fish…

      • storyartist

        No arrest warrant from Sweden. Again, NO SWEDISH ARREST WARRANT. Never was one.

        He’s only been wanted for questioning — NO CHARGES. Does it finally sink in?
        Sweden and the UN have both conducted questioning and he’s cleared. It is the U.S. holding possible extradition over his head making his asylum necessary. The U.S. who has NO EVIDENCE JUST THREATS.

        WE are the bad guys.

  • Z54

    A simple reason why I never believe anything the media or government tells me. It’s all a lie!

  • lysias

    The CIA’s new document dump confirms that the CIA works for Wall Street, not the U.S. CIAs role in financial markets EXPOSED by documents release:

    So now that the CIA has released 13 Million files and will continue to release more every year on the Crest archive, it will provide investors, historians, authors, academics, bankers, and others the evidence they need to research and confirm what we already knew: The CIA is an agency-employee that works for international banks first, and US Citizens second.

    So will the CIA now tank the markets to make Trump look bad?

  • Mike W

    Agree with others that this isn’t a stunning admission at all. The emails leaked out, maybe via hacking from the outside or deliberate leaking from inside, and I think Obama is saying that he suspects they were leaked via Russian hacking.

    I take “.. the conclusions of the intelligence community with respect to the Russian hacking where not conclusive of whether or not wikileaks was witting or not in being the conduit through which we heard about the DNC emails that were leaked …” to mean that the emails were obtained by hacking by Russians but wikileaks may not have been aware of how the emails were obtained or by who. Which doesn’t amount to and admission, let alone a stunning one.

    I admire Craig a lot, but too many overstatements like this make me less likely to believe stuff that isn’t as easy to check as just watching 2 minutes of youtube video.

    • ron

      it’s good to have an open mind on subjects whilst, at the same time, maintaining all our prejudices and preconceived ideas – very british

    • bevin

      There is no evidence whatever that Russia or even Russians were involved in anything to do with the DNC. Nor did the DNC ever give up its computers to be examined by the FBI. The only case to be made against the Russians comes from a Russian opposition owned IT firm working for the Ukrainian fascist regime. And they have no evidence either.
      The whole story is one in which an enormous conspiracy theory has been constructed, without evidence if any kind, to account for the fact that the emails became public. This theory has three purposes:
      1/ To distract attention from the criminal (literally) rigging of the Democratic Party primaries.
      2/ To account for the incredible unpopularity of Clinton who lost to the weakest candidate the Republicans could find (in part because the DNC had secretly supported Trump throughout the Republican primaries.)
      3/ To advance the cause of the neo-con warmongers who have controlled US Foreign Policy since 1945 and who believe that Russia must be crushed in order to give the USA full spectrum domination , globally. And permanently.

      • Jorma

        US obviously has all the evidence that it needs. Russians are guilty as charged. Whether Wikileaks has a relationship with the Russian government is another issue.

      • Mike W

        I get all of that, I’m just saying that I don’t think that what Obama said 8 minutes into the youtube clip is anything like a “stunning admission”, I don’t think it’s an admission at all. I think people can watch it and make their own minds up.

        It’s possible to agree with everything you said and still think that in this youtube video Obama didn’t admit to an internal leak being the cause of the emails being released. Craig has tried to justify his claim based on the meaning of the word leak, but I don’t think his explanation holds water (bad pun intended).

  • RobG

    This is total rollocks…

    The rot is now so deep that I feel there’ll have to be some kind of truth and reconciliation deal, as happened in South Africa.

    Personally, I’d put the lot of ’em up against a wall and shoot them – the presstitutes and politicians are responsible for millions of untold deaths.

    But forget about this: just keep worrying about the twerrorists and the Reds under your bed, and all the other bullshit they keep feeding you with.

  • mauisurfer

    Ellsberg says to Snowden, “You’ve seen ‘Dr. Strangelove’?” The leaker tries, as best he can, to find common cultural ground with the hacker.

    Snowden: “No.”

    Cusack: “Oh my God!”

    Snowden: “Before my time, man.”

  • Jemand

    The outgoing president is a lawyer and his speeches are carefully written with possibility of nuanced interpretations in mind.

    ‘Leak’ is clearly understood to mean an insider release of information. The term predates that of ‘hacking’ and its meaning has not changed.

    The absence of any reference to ‘hacking’ makes this clearer. How the insider accessed the information and his authority to do so is irrelevant to the use of the term ‘leak’.

    “Stunning admission” is that authorities have no evidence that information was obtained by unauthorised person and methods from outside DNC. Therefore ‘Russian hacking’ claims unproven and likely false.

    That IS a “stunning admission”.

    • bevin

      That just about sums it up: Now the idiots who still believe in Clintonism/Blairism need to be convinced. Don’t hold your breath.

      • Harry Vimes

        Not a hope in hell bevin. It would destroy them psychologically such is the depth and level of investment they have made in these delusions and fantasies. Their critical faculties having long been flushed down the toilet the best which can be achieved is to allow them to gibber to themselves in the corner of the room until the grim reaper claims them.

  • Jorma

    Craig Murray is a liar. Obama didn’t question whether Russia hacked DNC or not, he only said that he doesn’t know how Wikileaks got those Russian hacked e-mails. Russia got them first, then handed them over to somebody. Whether that somebody was Wikileaks or not, that is unknown (or so Obama said).

    • giyane


      I would trust Craig with my life, with my worldly possessions and certainly as a witness in court.
      We know he is not a liar on this blog. That is not to say that he doesn’t have a certain salty flavour from his contacts in the Foreign Office and politics. That means that he errs sometimes on the side of caution because he knows he has peer-evaluation going on for every word he writes.

      He definitely would not say that Obama admitted the emails were leaked if he did not have corroboration from his peers in government, or if the fathead trolls that run the world were not pushing the lie that Russia hacked them. The fact that Obama originally was told to say they were hacked is sufficient reason to believe the opposite in this case.

      Obama is the man who has destroyed Syria using terrorists who are on the UN’s wanted list. He has assisted, along with Israel and the UK, a new terrorist group Daesh and promised that the US will retain them for 20 years until the US’s ambitions in the Middle East are accomplished. Trump is from the swamp and today will stick the baton from Obama’s arse into a similar safe place..

  • Anon1


    Today is the big day. Norwich’s demonstration against “racist” Trump will begin at 4.00pm. Crowds of up to 200 are expected. Contact Nevermind for further details.

    • giyane

      I have a little tingling feeling in my hypothalamus about racism. Haven’t we been here before sometime?
      Mrs May is hell bent on sacrificing her main supporters on the cross of immigration control, to suck up to Trump who said he wants to build a wall against Mexicans in order to play the same racist card as May.

      Oh I remember now. Nevermind was a refugee from post Nazi Germany. Don’t worry, Nevermind, neither Trump nor May have the slightest intention of controlling the free movement of free slaves. They are posturing, raspberrying even, from their political backsides.

    • Harry Vimes

      While applauding the sentiment of the Norwich parade and others like it it needs to be pointed out that whichever side of the Atlantic is being considered such a “parade” is several months too late. Self proclaimed progressives should have been hitting the streets during the Democratic Convention when the DNC and the Clinton clan were the ones found to be hacking the election using everything from voter surpression to stealing and gerrymandering votes and delegates from the only candidate many polls had down as being capable of beating Trump in a straight race.

      But too many went AWOL and flushed their critical faculties down the bog. Since then, the same people have gone further in compounding this act of cowardice by falling for this rerun of “The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!” from the 1950’s and attaching themselves to this evidence free bullshit that the average junior school attender could demolish that it was not the DNC and the Clintons who led us to this point, with themselves meekly following behind like good little sheepies, through the criminal electoral shenanigans, shown up in these leaks. No it were them over the Mister. Them Russians. They’re responsible for Trump. Now’t to do with us standing there with our thumbs up us arse and brains in neutral letting the real criminals get away with it and associating ourselves with that criminal activity by tacitly approving of it and agreeing to blame someone else.

      No Mister. We’ll continue to believe in these children level fairy stories, clutching at the straws we have attached ourselves to psychologically, and just to divert attention away from our own contribution to this tragedy we’ll organise and hold a few parades and demonstrations in the vain hope that those progressives who have not fallen for this bollocks don’t notice our sig if I can’t contribution to this mess.

      Go tell it to the marines.

    • Shatnersrug

      Feel sorry for Nick. Times must be hard – I see him in Sainsbury’s buying the economy range. Economy range?? Not even taste the difference! And there’s a Waitrose next door! No I’m sure nick will type what whatever he’s paid for.

  • michael norton

    Right up until the last day
    Islamic State conflict: US strikes in Libya ‘kill 80 rebels’
    The mission, which dropped around 100 bombs on Wednesday, is thought to be the last signed by President Barack Obama as he prepares to leave office.

    Mr Carter said those targeted were “actively planning” attacks in Europe.

    President-elect Donald Trump takes over as the US’s new commander-in-chief on Friday.

    • SA

      Meanwhile Islamic state is in danger of taking Dier Ezzor from the SAA and 100000 civilians are in mortal danger but you wouldn’t know this from the MSM who were so concerned about the fate of the ‘moderate rebels’ in Aleppo.

  • Libby

    Yes it is nice to finally hear some truth. Now if they could sustain that mode. Thank you for this article.

  • W. Miller

    But he willingly allowed and at times supported the “Russia did it” story until it became majority belief knowing it was a lie. Assange stated that a DNC insider leaked the emails and for the first time in its history offered a reward for info re a crime. That was the murder of Seth Rich. That has not been refuted. The “Russia did it” narrative was used as an excuse for Hillary’s loss to Trump with new cold war as the result. What some people will do to excuse failure! Read “Manufacturing Consent” by Noam Chomsky for insight into the propaganda machine of the government wiyh collusion of the MSM.

  • michael norton

    Ms Nicola Sturgeon, who endorsed Mr Trump’s rival Hillary Clinton, said she wished the Trump administration well.
    The President-elect spoke with Ms Nicola Sturgeon on the telephone to discuss the “longstanding relationship between Scotland and the United States” in December, last year.

    The first minister has repeatedly condemned comments The Donald made during his campaign, having earlier stripped him of his role as a business ambassador for Scotland.

    Protests have been planned in Glasgow, Edinburgh and other Scottish cities ahead of the inauguration.

    • michael norton

      I know I am not Scottish, but why not welcome The Scottish Donald, he has done nothing bad to Scotland – ever.
      Would you rather have had that ghastly Clinton woman?

  • Phil Ex-Frog

    Page 2 O/T

    A propaganda tale arising out of Trumps election that might amuse someone here.

    Actors are apparently often hired to boost the enthusiastic crowds at political events. The company who hired ($50 a shot) for Trump’s early rallies where called “Gotham” and had to resort to threats before getting paid.

    Here in the UK libertarian PR shithead, cigarette and sugar enthusiast, former Cameron advisor, Alex Deane can provide a rent a mob to disrupt any political correctness gone mad.

  • Republicofscotland

    Whilst May and her cohorts “Carry on Brexiting” all around them UK firms are preparing for a sharp getaway. HSBC is moving over 1,000 jobs to Europe, as is J.P Morgan, which is moving 4,000 jobs out of the UK.

    Franfurt is the destination for Swiss bank UBS and 1000’s more jobs, whilst the English bank (it received the biggest bailed out post 2008) Barclays is on the verge of routing activities through Ireland.

    Goldman Sachs is to move over 2,000 jobs to Europe from London. Frankfurt has been preparing the city for over three months to host a plethora of new bank branches and thousands of staff, as the scramble for EU business access sees jobs go abroad.

    Of course this is just the beginning of the steady decline of the British economy, as companies wanting to trade in the 500 million plus market relocate their HQ’s out of the UK.

    Meanwhile its thought that the EU will present the Tories with a “divorce bill” which could be somewhere in the region of £60 billion quid.

    It’s also thought that Scottish fishing rights will be sacrificed by May, as part of trying to sweeten any deal.

    • michael norton

      RoS why not give Brexit a chance, why always so fucking negative.
      Why not talk up the economy of the U.K.
      Why try to talk it down, is it your character to always wish for the lowest aspiration?

      • Republicofscotland


        Brexit will cost Scotland over 80,000 jobs and the average person will be £2000 pounds per annum worse off. Scotland will lose millions in EU grants, our universities and science sectors will no longer receive funding from the EU and will be outside the EU information loop.

        Our young people will miss out on the Erasmus programme. Our rights will diminish after we exit the ECHR.

        The Tories are charging (reminds me of the ill fated Charge of the Light Brigade) into a complete exit from the Single Market, yet May expects access to the market, without any tariffs.

        Brexit is cultural, finanicial and economical disaster, Scotland must breakaway from Westminster and move in another direction, before May does anymore damage.

        Little Britain will become (already is to an extent) a low wage tax haven, where workers have very few rights, and the NHS in England and Wales will see marked privitisation.

    • bevin

      “Of course this is just the beginning of the steady decline of the British economy, as companies wanting to trade in the 500 million plus market relocate their HQ’s out of the UK…”
      I don’t know whether you noticed but the decline of the modern British economy coincided with the rise of the City, the Big Bang and the smashing of the Unions.
      Just what sort of a Scotland are you planning? One where Goldman Sachs set their HQ up in Edinburgh and every tax dodger and money launderer in London flits north? There is a big streak of the Gombeen man, Charlie MacHaughey in the SNP, a longing to be Celtic Tigers. Maybe you didn’t notice that either but it didn’t work very well in Ireland, not for the ordinary people anyway.

  • Republicofscotland

    So at 4.30pm (GMT time) we in Britain can watch the Donald ‘s inauguration. Whilst across the globe protesters waste their time and energy berating Trump’s attitude to a whole plethora of things.

    Trump in my opinion is just another neoliberal out to create wealth for the usual suspects, he’s assembled probably the richest political team ever to set foot in the Whitehouse.

    Trump who’ll be the 45th POTUS, hasn’t even declared his taxes nor separated his business interests from his presidency. He’s already sworn allegiance to Israel, and upset China over his semi-wooing of Taiwan.

    By becoming POTUS, Trump has achieved his goal of opening up just about every business market in the world for his personnel business interests.

  • michael norton

    Donald Trump’s mother, Mary Anne MacLeod, was born and brought up on the Hebridean island of Lewis but emigrated to New York to live a very different life.

    Mary Anne was one of tens of thousands of Scots who travelled to the US and Canada in the early years of the last century looking to escape economic hardship at home.

    She first left Lewis for New York in 1930, at the age of 18, to seek work as a domestic servant.

    The mother of The Donald
    Six years later she was married to successful property developer Frederick Trump, the son of German migrants and one of the most eligible men in New York.

    The fourth of their five children, Donald John, as he is referred to on the islands, is about to become US president.

    His mother was born in 1912 in Tong, about three miles from Stornoway, the main town on the isle of Lewis.

    Genealogist Bill Lawson, who has traced the family tree of Mary Anne MacLeod back to the early 19th Century, says her father Malcolm ran a post office and small shop in his later years. Economically, the family would have been slightly better off than the average in the township, he says.

    However, life during and after World War One, in which 1,000 islanders died, was very hard and many young people were leaving the Western Isles.

    Lewis had also suffered the Iolaire disaster in 1919 when 200 servicemen from the island had drowned at the mouth of Stornoway harbour, coming home for the first new year of peace.

    Mr Lawson says: “Mary Anne MacLeod was from a very large family, nine siblings, and the move at that time was away from the island.

    “The move by Viscount Leverhulme to revive the island had gone bust and there was not much prospect for young people.

    “What else could she do”
    Emigrate to America?

  • Sharp Ears

    ‘Establishment figures’ (who they) were not involved in the abuse that took place in NI children’s homes according to the BBC reporter just now on the News channel.

    The PTB have certainly chosen a good day on which to bury this report.


    ‘Historical Institutional Abuse Inquiry: ‘Widespread abuse’ in children’s homes

    The Historical Institutional Abuse Inquiry (HIA) studied allegations of abuse in 22 homes and other residential institutions between 1922 to 1995

    Children’s homes run by church and charities in Northern Ireland were the scene of widespread abuse and mistreatment of young residents, a report has found.

    The largest number of complaints related to four Catholic-run homes.

    There was also sexual abuse carried out by priests and lay people.
    HIA report closes dark chapter in NI’s past
    NI victims recall the impact of abuse
    Live coverage of abuse inquiry findings
    Homes and institutions investigated by HIA

    The chair of the inquiry, Sir Anthony Hart, recommended compensation, a memorial and a public apology to abuse survivors.

    ‘Sir Anthony also found no evidence that security agencies were complicit in the abuse that took place at Kincora.’

    It’s a very long report so here’s the link.

    He (Sir Anthony Hart) said a tax-free lump sum payment should be made to all survivors, including in homes and institutions that were not covered by the inquiry.

    As yet, there is no link to the report itself.

  • Mark Golding

    Yes it is nice to finally hear some truth. Thank-you Libby, hearing truth is good in this physical world when presented with a choice. We live in a world of lies. And we always have lived in a world of lies, mostly the lies of others gone before. The media in all forms is constrained to maintain lies.

    Some years ago I disclosed the US/West’s manufactured terror in Syria. My connection with a mercenary, a former close protection body-guard who served time in Kosovo; ‘one leg John’ served the truth and payed the price for that exposure, ultimately judged by the war criminals as betrayal. Truth bears consequences in a war on truth and indeed President Trump is obliged to suck up to the misogyny, bullying, threats to political opponents, authoritarianism, tyranny, torture, sneers at minorities that we have witnessed in the modern world.

    Lies are manufactured to suit an agenda. In Syria the chemical weapons of President Assad suited the US ‘red-line’ onslaught; the 160,000 of the civilians “trapped” in eastern Aleppo that did not actually exist; Israel’s wall is a “security fence”, its colonies are “settlements” which are “disputed” rather than illegal; the US return to Libya to bomb ISIS or were they ‘moderate rebels?’

    I consider, think over, reflect when real justice can bring light where darkness exists, can unmask the patsy, the stooge, the asset, the fall guy, the bogus plot, the cabal, the treason and sedition, for entire nations, for peoples, for the Middle East, for Palestinians. Those and they who do not live in a “post-truth” world. They’ve been living among other human’s lies for decades.

  • Loony

    Here is how Donald Trump is a moving and a grooving.

    During the campaign Trump highlighted the danger of nuclear war as the greatest danger he could see, and has consistently refused to demonize Putin. Trump appears to want detente – and has offered to meet Putin in Reykjavik foreshadowing Reagan. In order to make material progress it will likely be necessary to reach some form of accommodation as to the situation in Ukraine. Germany is playing a leading role in Europe to prevent any lifting of sanctions.

    Trump has gone after the Germans big time – calling Merkel’s refugee policy catastrophic and slamming BMW. How much easier it would have been to have gone after VW – but they are basically dead in the water and Trump can hit them anytime he wants.

    Trump claims NATO is obsolete and he may walk away. All NATO members are supposed to spend 2% of GDP on defense. The only Europeans to do so are Greece, Poland, Estonia and the UK. Germany spends 1.19% of GDP. The threat is pretty clear. Either Merkel coughs up and Trump boasts of his great negotiating skills or she she doesn’t and is then blamed for cratering NATO. No doubt the Russians will be told that hey we’d love to do more but the Germans are not so keen. Where does that leave Germany? No NATO and an antagonized Russia.. The Germans will pay because it is the only thing they can do. Then they will pay some more via accelerating fines on their major companies -neither VW nor Deutsche Bank have a leg to stand on. There are others. Trump is not likely to be too gracious in his victory.

    Naturally Germany will seek to recoup its costs through a further economic assault on its EU “partners” – but that avenue is being closed as Trump moves to support Brexit and is seen to publicly ally himself with prominent Brexiteers. The British have kicked open the door and Trump will prevent that door from being closed again – hence the escape route will be available for others. If German demands become to egregious then it is certain that the UK will not stand alone for long.

    In the US Trump will go after illegal immigrants – and if successful this will be economically beneficial for the US and its people. Europe will then have the example of the US against which it can measure the success of its immigration policies. It will not be a pleasant comparison.

    Ratcheting down the threat of nuclear war must be seen as a top priority by any sane person. Most people capable of independent thought would like to see an end to the EU. When all the emotion surrounding immigration is stripped away no credible arguments exist to suggest that Europe can provide a home to hundreds of millions of additional people – and therefore there must be limits to immigration. Trump will define those limits. People will scream racist – but forget to mention that they have had many years to do this job for themselves – but were simply to spineless to grasp the nettle.

    The whole Trump mantra of Make America Great Again requires that both Germany and China be dealt with. Germany must be weakened in order to get close to Russia. The plan will be to entice Russia away from China so that you can go after China without having the Russians pop up again. This will be the hard (perhaps impossible) part – but the speed with which Germany has been checkmated suggests it would be unwise to underestimate Trump. There are of course powerful forces within the US that will seek to frustrate Trump at every turn – and they may be successful.

      • Loony

        Trump has only just finished speaking. Among other things he said that he plans to create 25 million jobs and grow GDP at 4% pa. He cannot possibly do this if China continues to manufacture and export to the US at the rate it currently does. Therefore the US needs to either persuade or prevent China from continuing with this policy.

        If things continue as they are then the US will be effectively destroyed. At some level everyone understands this, it is just that Trump is first person to propose doing something about it. As goes China so goes Germany.

        As the old saying goes “what cannot go on forever, will not go on forever”

        • Republicofscotland

          “If things continue as they are then the US will be effectively destroyed. At some level everyone understands this, it is just that Trump is first person to propose doing something about it. As goes China so goes Germany.”

          As the old saying goes “what cannot go on forever, will not go on forever”


          Christ Looney have you learned nothing in all your time commenting in here?

          Why do you think the US has such an aggressive foreign policy, it makes up the deficit of trade. It’s far easier to invade and asset strip than face up to the fact that America’s economy is on the slide.

          Quoting Herbert Stein’s law, who was a economic adviser to Ford and Nixon, isn’t particularly relative in this case as in the eyes of the US and it’s foreign policy there’s always another country to invade and asset strip.

          • Loony

            Well that is the choice is it not? Rebuild America by creating jobs and allowing the country to support itself or continue to pillage the world.

            The only place left to pillage that will make a material difference is Russia. Russia has been quite clear that it will not allow itself to be pillaged. Trump says he prefers to work than to pillage. Surely this is good news, and should be supported by everyone.

      • michael norton

        China is stripping the world of resources.
        China is attempting to dominate the seas between it and Thailand / Malaysia.
        Chins has relocated American jobs into China.

        They need bringing down multiple pegs.

        • Republicofscotland

          “China is stripping the world of resources.”

          Just like the West has done for at least 100 years.

          “China is attempting to dominate the seas between it and Thailand / Malaysia.”

          Just like the British/French/Spanish etc navies did for 100’s of years, indeed Hong Kong and Macau (Portuguese) springs to mind.

          “Chins has relocated American jobs into China.”

          I’m not sure what (chins you mean Brexit chins maybe?). Anyway Thatcher destroyed the British minning industry which led to more jobs created in Poland as we imported Polish coal as it was cheaper to sack thousands of miners and import the coal.

          • michael norton

            UK-US trade deal ‘within 90 days’ of Brexit’, Nigel Farage says

            The former UKIP leader says the Trump team are offering Britain a “great gift” and hailed their “can-do attitude”.

            Sky News

            that’s handy Saint Nigel

          • Republicofscotland

            Farage also said that £350 million or so would be invested back into the NHS, it wasn’t, the Brexiteers even put that amount or there about on the side of their Brexit bus.

            I doubt May will be able to secure any trade deals with the US until Brexit is sorted out.

            As for believing a xenophobic isolationist like Farage, well caveat emptor I say.

          • Clark

            michael norton, 18:23

            “China is stripping the world of resources…”

            …and making it into cheap toot which we and the rest of the rich nations greedily buy on e-Bay and in big name high street stores.

    • Why be ordinary

      Except that Deutsche Bank is Trump’s biggest creditor and BMW has its biggest car plant in the world at Spartanburg NC (and is ineed the biggest exporter of cars from the US)

      • Loony

        Trump has a long history of stiffing banks – all of whom were his creditors. So no problem there.The problem for Deutsche Bank is their derivatives book which stands at around $47 trillion.

        Attacking BMW was an unexpected move as there are easier targets around. Maybe it shows how serious he is, maybe it doesn’t. Who knows? And that is the whole point.

    • SA

      One of the ploys of neoliberalists, and before them also imperialists, is to hedge your bets and appear to be a populist whilst actually supporting the 1%. One example is now the attack on immigrants, as if that is the greatest evil in the world and without analysing the complex nature of the problem. Immigration acts at many levels: it can be encouraged whilst being kept ‘illegal’ so as to undermine the working class, creating a distraction and offering militaristic solutions. Immigration, one must also remind real concerned ‘liberals’, is often detrimental to third world countries in the form of a brain drain. This complex issue has been simplified by Trump and the Brexiters and stripped down to its jingoistic racist basis and that is what should be exposed. An honest debate on immigration is needed.

  • Republicofscotland

    Well it was interesting to hear Trump say that he’ll put America first, in his inaugural speech. That doesn’t bode well for Theresa May’s “Keep calm and Brexit” stance, in which she hopes for great trade deals with the US.

    It was also fascinating, seeing so many con men, fraudsters and mass murders all on the one balcony, lauding a con man, fraudster and future mass murderer.

    • Loony

      It bodes extremely well for Brexit. Part of putting America first is strong and unwavering support of the British position with regard to the EU.

      If you don’t like con-men, fraudsters and mass murderers then you should do something about it. One thing you can do is to support the UK leaving the EU.

      • Republicofscotland

        “One thing you can do is to support the UK leaving the EU.”


        Looney, that’s the last thing I’ll do, the British government already supports mass murderers in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain etc.

        Imagine what those imperial isolationists at Westminster will get up to abroad, when the shackles of the ECHR and ECJ are thrown off, the question is what are YOU going to do about that?

        • michael norton

          If he U.S.A. under the watchful stare of The Scottish Donald, withdraws from constant war
          so will The United Kingdom under Saint Theresa May.

    • SA

      TM is now position herself clearly to revive the ‘Special Relationship’. Sadly this will make Britain even more of a laughing stock post Brexit, considering what the politicians in this country where saying about Trump in the false safety of believing that Hillary was going to win.

  • SteveMol

    Absolutely F*ing incredible! Talking about the sanctions on Russia being imposed as a result of Russia’s “invasion” of Crimea, Obama says “….. It is important for the United States to stand up for the basic principle that big countries don’t go around and invade and bully smaller countries”.

    • glenn_uk

      Of course it’s a terrible thing for powerful countries to invade and occupy, or otherwise bully weaker countries. Just as it would be terrible if one country hacked or spied upon another country, or interfered with their elections. All noble principles.

      The fact that Amerikkka does this as a matter of course doesn’t make these declarations of theirs untrue, it simply makes them hypocrites of the first order. Then again, there is the “exceptionalism” principle which excludes the US from any and all considerations that other countries have to abide by. So that makes it OK – at least as far as the US is concerned (which is all that matters, obviously).

1 2 3

Comments are closed.