483 thoughts on “Blog Housekeeping Point

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  • reel guid

    Tim Farron certainly doesn’t want Le Pen to win.

    But here’s what he said about Trident today on the campaign trail.

    “Our nuclear deterrent keeps us at the top table in this post-brexit world”.

    Right Tim. You’d keep Trident in Scotland. A country in which your party has one MP. A country that you deny a democratic choice to by opposing indyref2. So we can’t have a democratic say about whether we have these dangerous weapons housed in Scotland and you’re fine with that. All so you can win some votes in the South of England far away from where these weapons are.

    It’s time for decent Scottish Lib Dems to leave for the SNP or the Greens.

    And Farron calls himself a liberal. There are plenty of other names he could be called.

    I hope the fish finger beats you. You’ll certainly get the finger from loads of people in Scotland for what you’ve said today.

    • Chris Rogers

      reel guid,

      As I’m now formally Banned from the Labour Party and as such not prevented from say as I like, it is my opinion that Scotland will be better served if the Tories are eradicated and that all Scottish Parliamentary seats are taken by the SNP, which means Labour peers, LibDem and anyone else with a heart and desire for a better UK to elect SNP candidates, in Wales my advice is to vote anti-Tory, so if in a PC constituency vote PC, if in a Labour constituency vote Labour etc.etc, only via tactical voting can we ensure a modest Labour victory, namely, a Labour-led minority government, which is the best we can realistically hope for.

    • Brianfujisan

      Reel guid

      Have you seen the Russia Response to ( Our ) Defense Minister Michael Fallon’s Psychotic…Deranged..Unhinged statement yesterday morning

      “There is a quite natural question then: what country could be primitively targeted by the UK?” the deputy head of the Federation Council’s Committee for Defense and Security said.

      In case the UK strikes a nuclear power, then “the UK, which doesn’t have vast territory, will be literally wiped off from the face of the earth with a counterstrike,” Klintsevich said.
      In the event of targeting a non-nuclear country, this will remind of the US nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, he added.

      https://www.rt.com/news/386093-uk-nuclear-strike-russia/

      • reel guid

        Brian

        Yes. The UK is run by politician criminals like Fallon who can’t or don’t want to practice diplomacy in an unsettled world. But want to threaten and create fear of the other. Politicians like Tim Farron are the pathetic facilitators of the likes of May and Fallon.

        And they’re all together – Better Together – waving their union jacks and getting the public to respond to their dogwhistles.

        Vote Fish Finger in Westmoreland!

        • michael norton

          Tim Farron and Theresa May, were, I have been told at university together.
          Probably used to drink each other under the table.

      • fwl

        Brian, I am not surprised by Russia’s comments, but remember that Russia reserves the right to make a pre-emptive nuclear strike. We are a long way from the days of Ray gun and Gorby, who both stood firm against their respective home opposition and worked to disarm. Fallon just seems out of his depth. They should give the job to Rory Stewart as he has a brain.

    • D_Majestic

      Reel guid-slightly O/T but relevant to your post. Just got in from a hard day. Found Tory election cr*p paper in the hallway. Under the heading ‘What This Election is About’ is Bullet point 5. I quote:
      ‘Build a more secure and united nation by taking action against the extremists who try to divide our society and standing up to the separatists who want to break up our country’
      Am I the only one who finds this Orwellian in the sense that it implicitly threatens not only those who might be real extremists, but also anyone deemed to be one. In other words anyone that the ruling party deems to be slightly out of order. And who would take these decisions?

      • reel guid

        D_Maj

        Yes quite chilling indeed. I was amazed a while back to read much the same thing in one of William Hague’s tweets.

        Scotland isn’t Theresa May’s country. It’s in a union with her country and it’s up to the people of Scotland and not her to decide if it stays in that union.

        • Salford Lad

          if you disagree with the mainstream politics of the UK and blog as such on line ,you are considered a Non Violent Extremist and your number is marked.I believe the pig rapist Cameron was first to use this term.

        • giyane

          reel guid

          All political and magician pamphlets that come through my front door are either shredded and re-posted into the street drain letterbox outside my house. If true, the Tories labelling Independence supporters as extremist betrays a very indiscreet outburst of rage from Mrs May.

          Once again Steve Bell has hit the nail on the head by portraying Trump as a scarlet-neck and face, and May as a vindictive white-with-rage-faced-clown in a harlequin suit.

          Temper temper Theresa. Voters will worry about the reliability of your finger on those nukes.

  • Geoffrey

    Has my question about whether wanting disgusting Brits from Iberian Peninsular is racist or not been deleted ?

  • michael norton

    Here is a question, I have no knowledge of the answer.

    Is a good part of the reasoning behind Globalization, that in overseas lands the Global Corporations avoid paying for workers pensions?

    • Chris Rogers

      Mr. Norton,

      I’ll think you’ll find that Global Corporations don’t wan to pay humans full stop, indeed, apart from the C-Suite’, they’d much prefer robots, and if not robots then slaves – we see this with Apple, and we see this with Ford moving Transit production to Turkey, which by the way puts a rather large hole in Craig’s argument about UK businesses relocating to EU members states – finance will, but any manufacturing will move to low cost economies, be these in Eastern Europe or Vietnam/India.

      • michael norton

        Mr. Rogers

        how will people in
        The United Kingdom
        earn a living if most jobs go to workers in overseas lands?

        • Chris Rogers

          Mr. Norton,

          Quite simple, they won’t and the manufacturing jobs lost will never be coming back, they won’t be coming back because the entire production chain has moved in most instances – see Thailand and Hard Disk drives as a classic example. However, given we are monetary sovereign and most of our economic activity is of a domestic order, we have much to keep us busy, but that would mean ‘universal living benefits’ and wealth distribution.

        • Chris Rogers

          Bill,

          Ah, ‘the question of questions,’, in a nutshell, no bugger because as wealth concentrates and liquidity is removed from the real economy (money), no one will have much to actually spend on consumer goods because all money has been rent extracted via financialisation – essentially, and as Marx predicted, the system will eventually implode as no one, bar a handful, will have anything to spend whatsoever – which is what is happening in front of our eyes in the USA, with Europe a mere decade away from our Atlantic peers as far as trends go – so, in order to redress this, you require economic prescriptions like those pushed by Melenchon in France, or the diluted ones pushed by Corbyn.

    • Loony

      Some of it relates to the fact that you can pay people much less in faraway lands.

      If you can earn $500/month in Shanghai then you are doing OK – Shanghai is a “first tier city” so if you locate in a “third tier city” then wages will be maybe half that. Even if you are willing to work for wages like this in the UK then you will either starve or be homeless or both.

      Wages are only part of it – depending on what you want to do then the big gains come in environmental compliance or lack thereof. Check out the pollution levels in Shanghai sometime – it will make your eyes water, literally.

      This is the west – with its virtue signalling commitment to fighting global warming by taxing and regulating many activities out of existence, and then simply refusing to accept that Asia is part of the same planet. Ah the benefits of the enlightenment.

      • michael norton

        In Tudor England most of the forest were cut down.
        I most of Europe, this was not the case.
        Wood was the universal material, navy building, building construction, tool handles, furniture, fencing, charcoal, tanning, carts
        and much else.

        Perhaps Tudor England considered itself an advanced economy.
        However the lack of good oak to build a navy was deemed strategic.
        The forests were partially re-grown but I suspect Tudor England was starting to grasp the nettle of Globalization, before the modern world, really kicked off.
        We moved on to colonizing The Americas, food was brought back to Europe, many were sacked from the agricultural way of life, food could be obtained cheaper from The Americas.
        Penury – disease – irrelevance – death

        Is, Penury – disease – irrelevance – death to again be our future?

        • Michael McNulty

          Talking of Tudors, to pay for the navy he was building Henry VIII debased the currency so much that traders abroad stopped accepting British “red gold”. At first he added silver which turned it white, then to put some colour back he added copper but that turned it red. It almost crashed the economy and I assume only heavy taxation could save it, such as robbing the wealth of monasteries including the dressed stone they were built with, selling it to the wealthy so they could build fine houses.

          • giyane

            Tudors? I see now that Steve Bell’s harlequin reference in his portrayal of May is comparing the statesmanship of Liz I with the Mrs May’s fits of pique.

      • Salford Lad

        Yes,Marx with his Theory of Surplus Value was prescient in forecasting the exploitation of both worker and Industrialist by the Rentier Class.
        The present system of offshoring jobs and Industry to take advantage of wage arbitrage and inadequate environmental regulations
        is witness to this.
        The profit accrued is at the expense of both workers and their polluted environment.

        • giyane

          Seems we have discovered a rich vein of political truth. I’m impressed. Neil Kinnock always used to spout political theory when interviewed, which probably put most voters off.

          I feel sure that the neo-cons are confident that they are the future if only people could understand, and Scottish independence will be portrayed as Anne Boleyn, wandering as a ghost around the Tower of London, with her head tucked underneath her arm.

          Mrs May will announce to a drum roll: ” Craig Murray, you’re on the wrong side of history. You are the weakest link.”

  • Seydlitz

    Banning opinions even if they are obnoxious it is what Hitler did, counter argument is the way to expose the ludicrous position. You will be banning and burning books if do not agree it’s what they say.

  • reel guid

    She’s only distanced herself for tactical reasons from Papa Le Pen’s pathetic pied noir paratrooper posturing. And because his brand of French fascism is out of date. She’s still a frite off the old block.

    • Republicofscotland

      reel guid.

      I see the decrying of the “Rotheschild banker” by some commentors, but surely Macron is preferable to Le Pen?

      I’d fear for the stability of France is Marine Le Pen won. Ethnic tensions would surely rise and boil over, with France being the host to one of Europe’s largest Muslim populations – though Germany hosts a large Muslims population as well.

      • reel guid

        Absolutely agree with you Ros.

        I posted earlier about the Muslim-baiting of elected Front National politicians. Le Pen has craftily made herself appear less extreme, but it’s all a ruse. She’d be disastrous for Europe – and I don’t just mean the EU – if she got to the Elysee Palace.

      • lysias

        “Stability” has been the excuse for all the U.S. intervention all over the world.

    • Tom

      Attack her for her own words and actions. If we judged our politicians based on who their parents were, then Hillary Benn would be one of the most loved and respected men in the country.

      • reel guid

        I’m saying she’s just like her father but cleverly repackaged to deceive French voters.

        Obviously Hillary Benn is nothing like Tony.

        • Republicofscotland

          reel guid.

          Yes indeed, gone are is the brash approach her father displayed, she’s definitely a more polished kind of racist. ?

  • Republicofscotland

    Yes well said Craig, I myself had begun to noticed a tacit indirect support for Madame Le Pen, for several long term and prolific commentors.

      • Republicofscotland

        Michael.

        Can you elaborate on your above comment?

        Or is it as usual a pointless ad hominen statement.?

          • Republicofscotland

            Not quite getting your point Michael, but let me help you out a bit there.

            Do you mean I’m a sycophant, because I spoke the truth? And you don’t particularly like that because……?

          • Iain Stewart

            Michael, in your self imposed task of “adding content” to this blog, your support for and admiration of Marine Le Pen has been as continuous and vociferous as it is tedious.
            (And why do you use the American spelling of globalisation?)

  • mauisurfer

    Please tell us what you really think, don’t hold back!
    Love you style Craig.
    But may I ask a small question?
    Do you see a resemblance between Macron and Tony Blair?

    • Habbabkuk

      Oi! That’s my question off the previous thread!

      Thank you for putting it again and I hope you have better luck with your answers than I did 🙂

      • Bayard

        Well, considering when you earlier made exactly the same point as I did in an earlier thread (about xenophobia not being racism, but racism sounding better), you got exactly the same response, i.e. b*gger all, I expect your hopes are in vain.

      • Iain Stewart

        That’s a little ungracious, Habbabkuk, after all that rapid translating I did to give you an informed answer, but you are forgiven. The resemblance has been long noted in the popular French press (even by perhaps your favourite paper Le Figaro) but may not stand up to close examination.

  • Republicofscotland

    Netanyahu, another undesirable in my book, has cancelled, or is likely to cancel a meeting with Germany’ Foreign minister, after the minister refused not to meet with the Israeli group Breaking the Silence.

    The group who collects testimonies from Israeli veterans, on all manner of atrocities committed against the Palestinian people, were due to have a sit down with the German Foreign minister.

    In February, Netanyahu ordered the reprimand of the Belgian ambassador after Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel met with representatives of Breaking the Silence, and B’Tselem during his visit to the region.

  • Scott

    I first heard of Craig in 2005, ad have followed ever since – from first posts and talks, appearances at Edinburgh festival, I have a first hardback edition of Murder in Samarkand. But from this blog post I’m done, no longer follow nor support. I actually have no wish to say anything at all about Le Pen – but nor do I wish to support anyone who so casually prohibits open speech on topics they disagree with. Like the old Orwell quote of “If liberty means anything at all..”.
    Given your history in human rights….I’m pretty stunned I must say.

    • RobG

      I agree with what you say. As the neo-con agenda moves on down the road the list of things we ‘are allowed’ to talk about grows shorter and shorter.

      Craig seems to have got the memo from GCHQ and their American masters.

      It’s better to die as a free man than to live as a slave.

    • Alcyone

      +1 Scott, well articulated. I’m not quite ‘stunned’ though–i’m not sure why. Can’t quite put my finger on it, but somebody said something about opinionated authoritarian etc. I’ll have a think about it. The blog’s first casualty might be truth. Do stick around till the first execution at least, please.

    • Hmmm

      Fuck right off!!! Craig has fought and been wounded in the battle against fascism. He may be wrong many times but he has fought the fight so if he wants to head it off at the pass then more power to him. This ain’t no safe space motherfuckers!

    • lysias

      I also asked that question, and for my pains had my comment deleted.

      I think there’s some cognitive dissonance going on here.

      What can be said about Trump can apparently not be said about Mme. Le Pen.

      • RobG

        I’ve had three comments deleted so far, all of them politely arguing against Craig’s position and attempting to posit facts.

        But it is Craig’s blog, and it’s up to him what he allows us to say here.

        In a wider sense, we are seeing the same kind of censorship all across comment boards in the West.

        In one respect it’s quite funny, because while keeping a lid on dissent they have to keep up the pretense that we live in free and open societies!

        Our posts here will probably be deleted, so I won’t waste my time with my take on what’s actually going on in France at the moment.

        You have to lay back and swallow the Macron pill, and everything will be ok…

      • craig Post author

        You are not banned from talking about Trump or LePen. You are banned on this site from advocating racism or fascism. You have the entire rest of the world to do it in if you so wish.

        • lysias

          Then why was my question about why comments about Le Pen are treated differently from comments about Trump deleted?

          • Alcyone

            Quit asking awkward questions, Lysias. I have to express my surprise though to hear of *your* comments, especially, being deleted. My observation is that you are clearly one of the more controlled and better mannered contributors here, save your mistakenly calling Habby a troll and of course his ongoing playful tease. It is the term ‘troll’, if anything, that should’ve been banned here a long time ago!?

        • RobG

          Craig, you’d be very hard pushed to find any post I’ve ever made on your board that would mark me as a racist or a fascist; quite the opposite, in fact.

          As Habba, who is still allowed to post here, is always quick to point out.

          • glenn_uk

            Rob: FWIW, you’ve never struck me as having the least fascistic or racist inclinations.

          • Alcyone

            No, no of course not, other than some repeated, nightly remarks about people being vermin and lined up against a wall and being shot; make no mistake etc etc.

            Where have you been Glenn?

          • glenn_uk

            I don’t like those comments either, Alcyone, but they’re not fuelled by a love of Nazis.

        • Ian

          Most people, as far as I can see, use blogs like this (which attract readers because of the blogger’s reputation) as a platform for their own axes which they wish to grind. They offer very little debate on the topic under which they are ‘commenting’. So in a sense they are merely exploiting someone else’s blog for their own usually tiresome and narrow agenda, which they repeat ad nauseam on every thread. It is a shame, some rational and diverse debate would be good, but whatever there is doesn’t last long. It is endemic across the internet, and the reason many magazines and some newspapers have given up on it.
          The only blogs or forums which I have seen that stimulate good on topic debate are heavily moderated, and that is not surprising, but requires a lot of work from the moderator(s).
          Craig is being hoist by the same petard, and it does dilute the point of his often good arguments. The same small group of people continually repeat themselves. What is the point? I wouldn’t blame anyone for closing comments or indulging in some radical moderation, but it is unfortunate that this is where it often ends up. It is their blog, and their reputation which others freeload on, often to their host’s detriment. There is no easy solution.

          • RobG

            So to cut your diatribe short, you are against free and open debate? It should all be heavily moderated? But we’re not like China? How’s the weather in Cheltenham today? (lousy, I hear)

          • glenn_uk

            Rob: Are you against free and open debate? If not, would you welcome all sorts of nutters, fascists, lunatics, Klan members and so on to come to your B&B, take up megaphones, and shout their slogans all day long?

          • Alcyone

            Sorry glenn, but lousy analogy. You’ve fallen for the what-if-this-were-a-pub trap.

          • RobG

            glenn_uk, I’m all for debate in a public space, and I’m very worried that this is now being closed-down, such as the latest example on this board – *they* are now telling you that you can’t talk about certain things.

            I’m sure you appreciate the difference between a public space and a private space. The first thing a totalitarian government always does is to blur the edges.

            I believe I posted this link yesterday, and will repeat it again. None of it’s made-up; it’s all real (just look around you on this comment section)…

            http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/ruling-britannia-the-evidence-that-britain-is-legislating-it-way-to-authoritarianism/

            All complete psychos marching us off to war.

  • nevermind

    As right wing fascism and nationalism as well as racist attacks are increasing in Europe, Craig has put his money were his mouth is.

    I for one don’t distinguish between Netanyahu and Marine Le pen, they both wear hobnail boots and so does Frauke Petry, Geert Wilders, Victor Orban and many others.
    And we left out our very own fascists here, does that mean we are a bit confused?

    Why this woman is singled out for special treatment is beyond me, she won’t win anyway. boeff.
    Or does this three liner mean that racist and fascist should be banned from flaming the public, including certain newspapers?

    • Thorson Bloodaxe

      “Chinese authorities have banned Islamic baby names in the country’s largest Muslim province.”

      But that’s because they believe religion is the opiate of the masses, while in France they kinda believe “Jesus” is coming to “save them”. In other words the Chinese know what they are doing, while France……

      • lysias

        The Chinese Communists now tolerate religion. What they’re afraid of is Uighur nationalism (also Tibetan nationalism, when it comes to it.)

  • michael norton

    When extreme-far-right National Front leader Marine Le Pen Marine made it through to the run-off of the French presidential election on Sunday, some powerful people in the United States were celebrating.
    http://www.france24.com/en/20170425-marine-le-pen-american-inner-circle-lombardi-usa-far-right-support

    From Trump Tower to the US Congress, Le Pen has established her own circle of trust in the United States. And though Le Pen and Donald Trump have yet to meet in person, the National Front (FN) candidate and the US president have more than a few things in common.

    Yes they are both intent on creating jobs for their own people.

    • michael norton

      I would say, to the extent that both Marine and Donald are popular, it is because they have appealed to the working class, they have said they will make sure they put their own people first.

      I would imagine that few would be attracted by their racist rhetoric
      but many will like the idea of a job.

      • michael norton

        It has been said that there are more than 10% of working age people in FRANCE – without work.
        It is half that in
        The United Kingdom.

        People of working age need work, they do not need Globalization.

        • Chris Rogers

          Mr Norton,

          How very disingenuous of you, as it stands, much employment in the UK is now of a part-time nature, which means single jobs of 40-60 hrs a week are now shared by three people or more, i.e., epitomised in the exponential growth of Zero Hour Contracts, casual labour and illegal immigrant labour – the statistics from the USA are frightening, alas, their unemployment figure is also allegedly low – low until you open your eyes and observe for yourself all those without suitable paid employment in the fly-over States.

          • glenn_uk

            I recall seeing one gentleman from a more disadvantaged area saying, during Dubbya’s Reign of Error, “Sure there’s a lot of jobs being created. I’ve got three of them myself.”

            He was not rich. On the contrary, he worked three part time jobs and rarely had a day off, no health care coverage, and barely managed to pay the bills.

            Recall a smirking Dubbya telling a woman who said to him, during a campaign “town hall meeting” that she had three jobs?

            “Well ain’t that just typically American! /snicker, snicker/ Get much sleep? /scarf, snicker/”

            He actually thought this was a good thing, and she ought to be grateful for the economy that allowed this.

          • Republicofscotland

            Good comment Glenn, I recall that woman as well, as if it was some sort of badge of honour to hold down three jobs.

            When infact it was, and still is a sign of how far wages have fallen.

            I seem to remember that Robert Reich (ex-US politician) speak one time about how in the 50’s in the US.

            The husband brought enough money home to support his family and they still had enough to enjoy some extras. The wife stayed home kept house put the kids to school etc.

            Come the 70’s the US started sending work overseas product production etc. Mum had to find a job to compensate for falling wages, it’s gotten progressively worse ever since.

          • glenn_uk

            Indeed, RoS – if you ever get the chance, read the book “The new Golden Age” by economist Ravi Batra. He points out that ever since the Industrial Revolution, wages have tracked productivity. They increased almost exactly in line right up until the 1970s. After that, productivity continued to sky-line, while wages in real terms flattened.

            As you say, back in the 1970s a single wage earner could maintain the household. He (usually) paid the bills, they could afford a holiday, car, pension payments and put the kids through college. That all changed.

            The wife had to work in order to fill the gap. Then there was increased overtime. Finally, borrowing in order to fill the gap. This is where we are today – large amounts of hours worked, a lot of poverty and a huge amount of debt.

          • Sharp Ears

            McDonalds are abandoning zero hours contracts. Bad publicity not good for the image. Magnanimously they offer a contract for 4. 8, 15 or 30 hours. The university graduates will be pleased.

  • mickc

    I believe your approach is very regrettable. The views of LePen and her supporters are not countered by seeking to ban them, but by rational counter argument.
    Indeed, it is the attempts to suppress her views which have increased her popularity. A ban is usually interpreted as having lost the argument.

  • chris avery

    Not that I have ever blogged about Marine Le Pen … but can we blog about her niece Marion?

  • Anon1

    “Marine LePen is an actual racist and fascist.”

    Interesting that you use the word “actual”. It’s almost as if you have to stress that this time you are not making it up!

  • Laguerre

    I don’t believe myself that Marine Le Pen herself is a fascist or Neo-Nazi. She is intelligent and talks well. Her discourse is convincing, if you’re a nationalist.

    The problem is her party, those who surround her, and will be in powerful positions, if she is elected. They are nearly all extremists of the Neo-Nazi kind.

    There’s been a process of divorce in her campaign. First the name of Le Pen was dropped. The slogan is now “Marine présidente”. The name of Le Pen is an embarrassment. Then, she has now stepped down temporarily from leadership of the Front National. Why would that be necessary? To distance yourself from your party is strange. As some have said, and I concur, it’s because the FN is toxic. She won’t be elected if she remains with them.

    Of course, if she is elected, she won’t have a choice other than to call upon them for support. Otherwise she will be completely alone. The anti-FN move is a last-minute desperate attempt to make herself convincing.

    The plan may succeed, I don’t know. However, the young punk, Macron, has organised a very good campaign for a beginner at elections. He came in first, overtaking Le Pen, who was first in the polls for a long time.

    Evidently, neither being of an established party, either will have to seek alliances if elected, in order to have a majority in the Assemblée Nationale. OK, parliamentary elections are coming. Alliance is relatively easy for Macron, difficult for Le Pen. Le Pen faces the danger of not having a majority, and not being able to execute her programme.

    • Republicofscotland

      “I don’t believe myself that Marine Le Pen herself is a fascist or Neo-Nazi. She is intelligent and talks well.”

      _____

      Laguerre.

      That’s exactly the point, it’s subtle on the face of it but rife under the skin, don’t be fooled.

      Madame Le Pen, is playing the game duping the voters. Her and her parties hard core beliefs are very much alive and well.

      She must not win, I think the French will see through her, and even though Macron is not the ideal candidate, (who is for that matter) he’s a damn sight better than Le Pen.

      • michael norton

        Macron is a bankster, like George Osborne, how could anybody be duped by him?

      • Laguerre

        If you haven’t understood, but it was not the subject, I support Macron. He ticks most of the boxes. Oriented towards the young. Knowledge of the banking world. Descended from a bourgeois conservative family of doctors en province (Amiens). Adaptable. Very ambitious personally (report of friends of friends who know the family). Main negative is his foreign policy, which is bellicose, but that could change.

        He could be a very good for France, but we will have to see whether, if elected, he is diverted by long-standing policies, which he doesn’t have a desire to change. He won’t go for Thatcherite policies like a bull at a gate, as Sarkozy did.

        • Chris Rogers

          Laguerre,

          It’s interesting to point out, now that the statistics are filtering through, that 30% of those aged between 18-24 voted for Melenchon, with a significantly lower percentage voting for Le Pen – indeed, Le Pen gained most votes from those over 35 and under 50. Hence, Macron was not received well by younger voters in France – which is good news for me as it suggests a growing crisis for neoliberalism, the very neoliberalism Macron will promote whilst in Office.

    • glenn_uk

      I don’t believe myself that Marine Le Pen herself is a fascist or Neo-Nazi. She is intelligent and talks well. Her discourse is convincing, if you’re a nationalist.

      WTF? Is every Nazi supposed to be a drooling, raving, imbecilic lunatic? Of course Le Pen has put a more polished face on fascism, they are not stupid. And of course any Nazi can make a good speech, buttering up the audience on how great the people of are, praise how magnificent and honourable that country’s history is, and then go on to describe the dreadful threats from “the other” that beset it.

      Take a look at this woman’s backers:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08lp7fx/panorama-marine-le-pen-whos-funding-frances-far-right

      If you don’t believe she’s a fascist, her supporters certainly do.

      I’ll agree they aren’t “Neo-Nazis” though. They are actual Nazis – just like Golden Dawn. Nothing “Neo” about it in the slightest.

  • Ben

    “Permanently banned”

    Heh. I thought you soft-headed progressives liked Trump cuz he staved off Clintoonism and war mongering.

    Having second thoughts in your fetid idiocy?

    • mauisurfer

      Hillary just said:
      “I really believe that we should have and still should take out [Assad’s] air fields
      and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them.”

  • Becky Cohen

    “Marine LePen is an actual racist and fascist”

    She, and her party, are also homophobic, which is why I don’t know why she was even allowed to attend the funeral of that poor French gendarme today who was not only in a same-sex marriage (which the FN want to ban) but was also a very courageous LGBT rights activist.

    • Habbabkuk

      As a matter of interest did you know that the Castro regime was very homophobic (at least in the early years), sacking (the lucky ones) and imprisoning (he unlucky majority) several hundreds of state employees, academics and cultural figures?

      • glenn_uk

        Yes – one of several highly regrettable aspects of the Cuban revolution, together with the death penalty.

      • RobG

        At the time there was still apartheid in the United States of America, this was while they were bombing the feck out of Vietnam, totally against all international law (as usual).

        With regard to gay people, it was only until 2003 that homosexuality was made legal in all US states (see Lawrence vs.Texas).

        Your constant diatribe of propaganda is not only tedious and boring, it’s also incredibly childish and dangerous.

  • Ben

    Oh I see there’s been some Johnny-come-lately Trump angst. Shall we call a limo to carriage your asses off the Progressive dead -end train going no fucking where?

  • Alcyone

    Very interesting. Forget drawing conclusions, and watch people jump to conclusions from two words I said.

  • Habbabkuk

    It will be interesting to see for whom M. Melenchon will advise his troops to vote in the 2nd round.

    Assuming, that is, that M. Melenchon – a spoiler to the last – will actually advise them to vote for either of the two 2nd round candidates.

    There might be an interesting precedent here from 1965, offered by another spoiler (spoiler by virtue of the very party he represented).

    After his elimination from the 1965 Presidential election after the 1st round (he came third with about 23% of the vote, M. Duclos, the Communist candidate, refused to endorse either the Gaullist candidate M. Pompidou or the centrist candidate M. Poher on the grounds that neither was a left-winger.

    His recommendation to either abstain in the 2nd round or to spoil the ballot paper – largely followed by his Communist electorate, a disciplined bunch – made a Poher victory, already unlikely, a mathematical impossibility.

    I wonder if M. Melenchon will, for the same reasons, take a leaf out of M. Duclos’s book?

  • reel guid

    If people think that far right politicians can’t beguile people by posing as reasonable they should read German historian Volker Ullrich’s excellent biography of Hitler of a couple of years ago. It goes into much greater detail than any other book on the Nazi leader regarding his much used tactic of pretending to be less extreme than his supporters in order to disarm and unbalance opponents. That’s often overlooked now.

    Not that Marine Le Pen is another Hitler exactly, but she uses the same tactic of smoothing things over and appearing almost reasonable while her party rank and file – including the FN mayors – intimidate and provoke French Muslims, immigrants and other minorities.

    • michael norton

      reel guild do you think any of Marine’s friends have cut the heads off people or ran them over with vehicles?

      • reel guid

        No, but Robert Menard, the FN mayor of Beziers wanted to have the religion of every schoolchild in the city put on the record. He wasn’t allowed to in the end because it contravened French Law. But it’s the kind of alarming thing that goes on with the FN at local level and it’s not reported much in the Anglophone world.

      • Habbabkuk

        I believe the FN mayors of a couple of towns on the Cote d’Azur tried to outlaw the wearing of so-called “burkinis” (a “burkini” is a rather enveloping bathing costume for Muslim women). But the courts cancelled the municipal orders.

      • Republicofscotland

        But the French have bombed Libya and Syria, and Afghanistan. One wonders how many heads French troops blew off.

        Western government have slaughtered far more people in the Middle East, than have died in terrorist attacks in the West.

        The West created the mass influx of refugees to Europe OUR governments caused the crisis, now they demonise the refugees and useful idiots like you fall for it.

    • lysias

      I am just now in the process of reading Ulrich’s excellent book in German, after having read it in English. I wanted to see what the terminology in the original German was.

      There are great differences between the political genius Hitler and Mme. Le Pen. Dog-lover Hitler could not abide cats. Too independent. Similarly with people. Hitler’s subordinates like his secretaries loved him, as he was an extremely solicitous, considerate boss. Independent thinkers who threaened his self-esteem, on the other hand… Mme. Le Pen is a cat-lover, and her last campaign appearance, which had to be canceled because of the shooting, was to be at an animal shelter. Feminine virtues.

  • Sharp Ears

    If the Tories get back, that’s the end of OUR NHS as we know it. Get your credit cards/medical insurance cover notes at the ready.

    Theresa May’s secret plans to replace NHS England with private US healthcare system Kaiser Permanente
    23rd April 2017
    https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/04/23/theresa-mays-secret-plans-to-replace-nhs-england-with-private-us-healthcare-system-kaiser-permanente/

    In the 90s Thatcher had Prof. Alain Enthoven from Kaiser Permanente over. She adopted his views.
    See p 198 NHS PLC: The Privatisation of Our Healthcare Alyson Pollock/Colin Keys
    _____
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/25/margaret-thatcher-pushed-for-breakup-of-welfare-state-despite-nhs-pledge
    _____
    In 1988 two Conservatives wrote a pamphlet for the Centre for Policy Studies think-tank called ‘Britain’s Biggest Enterprise: ideas for radical reform of the NHS’ – http://www.scribd.com/doc/56986348/Britain-s-Biggest-Enterprise.
    It was written by Oliver Letwin and John Redwood.
    http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/oliver-letwins-extreme-views-on-nhs-exposed/
    _____

    Hunt has been over to visit KP so it’s all falling into place.

    NHS and Secretary of State for Health, Jeremy Hunt, Visit the CTH (Kaiser Permanente)
    https://centerfortotalhealth.org/tag/jeremy-hunt/
    Two visits – 2013 and 2014

    and Simon Stevens, the NHS England chief executive, worked for United Health, US insurers, for 10 years prior to the NHS job,

  • RobG

    I think we should all talk about stone; that’s the stone that was born from the fiery birth of this little planet we all live on; stone that is completely apolitical; stone that does not feel cold or hunger; stone that barely notices the wars of man; stone that does not choke and die due to pollution.

    Let’s all talk about stone.

  • Alcyone

    The professional news-reelers here missed this story:

    Labour General Election candidate is reported to police over claims he BRIBED voters with a lavish dinner
    -Afzal Khan, Labour candidate for Manchester Gorton, is facing a police probe
    -Footage of the dinner shows dozens of guests sitting around dinner tables
    -He is accused of breaking electoral law by seeking to influence voters with the food, a practice known as treating

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4444518/Labour-election-candidate-Afzal-Khan-reported-

    This is what a Labour Party Gala dinner in Manchester looks like:
    Afzal Khan MEP Dinner reception in Manchester Election 2017 K2 TV Syed Kashif Sajjad Manchester
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHyroPO-Txc

    Credit to K2 TV for breaking news/joke/bumblers/or simply could not care about the law. Requires a bit of translating, any Lancastrians around please?

        • RobG

          Craig, I’m out of here and will leave you to wallow with the psychos and loons.

          I’ve screen-captured much of what has gone on in this thread.

          That might well come back to bite you in the arse.

          Particularly as events unfold over the coming weeks.

    • glenn_uk

      Not idea, words and opinions – just the promotion of fascism. Shhhurely you can live without that? After all, there’s the rest of the ‘net promoting it, just about.

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