The Ignominious Death of the United Kingdom 1074


I am in Ghana and had some Ghanaian friends in the apartment here while I was watching the budget. I was ashamed, and they were incredulous, at the sheer crassness of the entire event. Hammond’s manner and delivery were beyond embarrassing. The constant stream of infantile jokes, of which the lengthy stream of toilet humour was just one part, was beyond childish. The worst thing about it is that Hammond apparently genuinely believed he was funny.

But even worse was the petty party nature of so much of it. The obsequious reference to DUP MPs by name, the grovelling towards new Tory “star” Ruth Davidson, the puerile digs at the SNP, the shoehorning in of an anti-semitism reference, the pathetic jibe at John MacDonnell’s accident. The Ghanaians with me observed that it would all have disgraced a school debating society.

Most of the budget’s rehashed public spending announcements and tax cuts for the wealthy are not worth analysis. The condemnation of PFI was very welcome, but it has taken 20 years for the political class – Red Tories or Blue Tories – to acknowledge the blindingly obvious, that they have used it as a device massively to abuse public services to rip off the taxpayer to the benefit of the bankers and wealth managers who funded the PFI schemes.

Hammond made the constantly repeated Tory claim that the income gap between rich and poor in the UK is shrinking. It depends what you are measuring. While it is indeed true that the income gap between the top and bottom deciles is slightly shrinking, the gap between the top centile and the bottom decile – or any other decile, including the between the top centile and the top decile – is expanding very fast. In short, we are taking on the characteristics of a helot society, where distinctions between the upper middle class and working class are reducing, but the gap to the extremely wealthy is growing.

In Ghana this last week I have made a point of asking a large number of Ghanaians, from drivers and students to businessmen and senior ministers, whether, in exchange for a higher standard of living and free immigration to the UK, they would give up Independence and become a colony again. I have been met with incredulity and outrage that I would even ask such a question, and even anger from those who misunderstood my motive in asking.

Ghanaians are of course quite right. Any nation should be outraged at the idea it would voluntarily become subservient, or that its allegiance can be bought for money. Which is why I am incapable of understanding the mentality of unionists in Scotland, many of whom were swayed in 2014 by arguments their pension might be reduced or their currency depreciated.

As everybody who canvassed in the 2014 knows, and opinion polls confirm, it was not those on the breadline who were influenced by these arguments. The worse off were solidly pro-Independence (except for the Orangemen, whose thought processes are not rational). It was the bungalow dwellers of suburbia who were swayed by the fear that they might not be able to trade in their Nissan Qashqai after three years as they intended.

In fact, I think the arguments Scotland will be worse off after Independence are demonstrably nonsense. But even were they true, I cannot express the degree of my contempt for those who value national freedom in pennies, and weigh self-respect against gold.

Independent states which are geographically, climatically, and in population and demographics closest to Scotland – Ireland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland – are all markedly wealthier than Scotland, despite Scotland’s terrific endowment of national resources. Why do some Scottish people believe they are inferior to the inhabitants of these countries, and would be unable to run their own affairs and economy?

The fact that Ireland, Norway, Denmark, Iceland and Sweden are all markedly wealthier than England, but that Scotland is poorer, should be sufficient indicator that the Union has not brought the claimed historical benefits, compared to those small independent states. So should the fact that, in 1707, the population of Scotland was a quarter that of England, and after three hundred years of union it is a tenth, while the population of the Highlands has only just returned to the original level. The fact that the A1 is, amazingly, still not much dualed north of Morpeth, while Crossrail is a national UK expenditure; the fact that high speed rail – like Crossrail accounted for in GERS as a national UK expenditure – will not come north of Leeds; the massive concentration of central government functions in London, and the long term effect of that on economic development: given all these indicators, you have to be slightly crazy to believe an independent Scotland would not be better off.

Astonishingly, this collection of untalented careerists that constitutes the “government of the United Kingdom” is managing currently to extend its lead in the UK wide opinion polls, while falling back again into third place in Scotland. I have sympathy for friends in England who do not wish Scotland to be independent, because the Tories have such a majority in England. But they have no right to force Scotland to live under a succession of Tory governments, which it has not voted for in over 60 years. Similarly, the Scots have no right to prevent the English from living under Theresa May – or even under Jacob Rees Mogg – if the English continue inexplicably to wish to do so.

I have expressed for many years the hope that I will see Scottish Independence and a United Ireland before I die. I am happy to say I am now convinced that I will do so. That the end of the UK would be marked by such a squalid, incompetent and dysfunctional political leadership I could not have dared to hope. Thank God the UK will soon be over.


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1,074 thoughts on “The Ignominious Death of the United Kingdom

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  • Col

    Scottish independence does not make us any freer than the current state. It is just a different bunch of obsessives in Edinburgh rather than ones in London playing out their games, and gaming the system towards their interests, their cronies, their prejudices.

    Anyone not taking an active part, preferring to stick to their own interests, their own career, their own family will be thrown under the bus to pay for the playthings of the deluded incompetents.

    Scottish socialism will fail just as thoroughly as it has failed everywhere else in the world, we are not special. Standards of living will fall and government will become increasingly autocratic in the attempt to hide or pass blame for their failure. And we will be told once more that it was just not the right kind of socialism, not pure enough socialism, not enough socialism.

    Though hopefully the climate will become a little warmer.

      • Col

        Moved away, absolutely no interest in playing constitutional games. Hope to come back when you are finished if anything is left.

      • Col

        Those countries general charge people to use their health services. That would be considered literally fascism by the Nats.

  • DiggerUK

    “Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt is looking to hire ambassadors from the UK’s top business leaders”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46041797

    Austerity is over, now is the time to privatise the Foreign and Commonwealth Office it seems
    Yes folks, this is the next step following on from when, in Africa at least, Harold Macmillan revealed that “The wind of change is blowing through this continent. Whether we like it or not”

    Looks like a long bet on Capita in your S&S ISA would return a good dividend.

    Only this time he seems to be preparing for a tornado of change to the whole of the foreign diplomatic service. Can you imagine the type of characters who could be found from the arms industry to staff our embassy in Saudi Arabia, or maybe Group4Security in our Israeli embassy to advise on the Palestinian Question, or Blue Circle cement, with aid from the London Brick Company and Wickes, to advise Trump on building a wall.

    Bring back Carillion is all I can say…_

    • SA

      I believe a new series of the Dragon’s Den is being filmed right now auditioning for competitors to represent U.K. in countries like China and Russia not to mention Syria and North Korea. They must all present plausible plans for educating civic society in these countries to prepare for democracy.

      • giyane

        Since when was this country interested in democracy? Divide and rule is the only system they understand. Let’s be quite clear. President Assad is demonstrably the ally of USUKIS for whom he performed extraordinary torture rendition, and also Turkey who supplied him with Kurdish oil from Daesh, and also Iran because they pretend he is Shi’a which he is not, with the French who put his family in power and also with Russia and thus China.

        Assad is only in power because the Saudis want to control Damascus. Divide and rule. Whatever someone wants, set up rivals for that thing and empower them to fight.

        Democracy is a system of circumventing the satanic system of divide and rule because it places the people’s vote over the murderous rivalries of clans, sects and dogmatic creeds. But all politicians , all the time, are all doing divide and rule and creating conflict.

    • giyane

      Jeremy hunt is not the Foreign secretary, even if Mrs May has appointed him to that position. Unless a man has a shred of credibility, or principles , or brain, whatever power he might be in possession of is impotent. Hunt is a self-interested blackguard, traitor to UK national interests and a sole devotee of global capitalist greed.

      like the Cheshire cat his smile will stay in place long after the creep has slunk off into the undergrowth.

      • Sharp Ears

        At the meeting I attended tonight which people from all parties and none attended, the very mention of Hunt attracted some derision. Louise Irvine who stood against him last year achieved her votes in just four weeks from filling in the nomination forms to the day of the election. If the parties who stood no hope of winning had stood down, Hunt would be gone and May’s majority would be smaller by one.

        Such progressive alliances were advocated as the only way to rid us of Tory strongholds at the most moment and a change from FPTP to PR too.

        Hunt’s seat in SW Surrey has gone from being the 7th safest Tory seat to become the 151st safest since 2017. LOL

        I mentioned to Louise, who is a very engaging and intelligent woman with lots of energy, that I had made reference to her on this blog. ‘Craig Murray did you say?’. ‘Yes, that’s right ‘ ‘He’s good isn’t he’ she said. I agreed.

        • IrishU

          Sharp Ears,

          Sorry to bring up accuracy again but whatever was said last night by the people there is not borne out by any equitable examination of the evidence as far as I can see. Hunt may have attracted derision but yet he maintains a large majority of the electorate’s support, or at least he did as of June 2017.

          ‘If the parties who stood no hope of winning had stood down, Hunt would be gone and May’s majority would be smaller by one.’

          In 2017 had it been a straight fight between Hunt and Dr Irvine, with Irvine hoovering up every vote cast for the other candidates, the result would have been Hunt winning by nearly 7000 votes. Also due to the snap nature of the election in 2017, most candidates had a limited time to submit nomination papers. Is it more or less worthy that Dr Irvine recorded the vote she did but failed to oust Hunt compared to the number of Labour MPs who ousted Tory MPs within a similar timeframe?

          Also where did this stat come from? – ‘Hunt’s seat in SW Surrey has gone from being the 7th safest Tory seat to become the 151st safest since 2017. LOL’

          According to Election Calculus ( https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html ) Surry SW is the 28th safest Tory seat, still a considerable drop but not quite as drastic, or hopeful, as you or the speaker made out. Also if you look at the trends, from 2001 until 2017 the Conservatives have increased their majority at each election from 861 in 2001 to a high point of 28,556 in 2015 before falling back to 21,590 in 2017.

    • Charles Bostock

      “Austerity is over, now is the time to privatise the Foreign and Commonwealth Office it seems
      Yes folks, this is the next step following on from when, in Africa at least, Harold Macmillan revealed that “The wind of change is blowing through this continent. Whether we like it or not” !

      How exactly is the alleged privatisation of the FCO the “next step following” Harold Macmillan’s “winds of change” speech of almost 60 years ago – what is the link? Is the alleged privatisation intended to be area-specific to Africa?

  • SA

    How marvellous. The USG has now suddenly discovered that the war in Yemen has to stop as if it has so far just been a bystander. And lo and behold here is David Milliband blaming Russia, amongst others, for not interfering in Yemen. Also marvel of marvels our own TM agrees with Mathis that a ceasefire is essential. Anything to keep the arms deal going and not antagonise the anti-armaments movement. Well and of course all of this just happened spontaneously, nothing obviously to do with the murder of Kashoggi and trying to move the story on.
    But maybe this would at least be a favourable outcome for Yemen?

    • jake

      That’s the air offensive over. Now it’s time for surveillance drones and ground troops. Another deployment for the White Helmets.

    • giyane

      Nobody in the world believes war-criminal, islamist , murderer Erdogan. Didn’t he deny stealing daesh oil from Kurdistan until Russia showed us the pictures of oil tankers reaching the horizon. He didn’t murder Jackie Sutton in his own airport hospitality lounge toilets? He didn’t allow Islamic state to collect US provided 4 x 4s on their way from Jordan to Mosul?.He hasn’t bedeiged all journalists , intellectuals , imams and ordinary citizens who dared to disagree with him?

      Erdogan is pissing in the wind. His hopes of re-building the caliphate are in tatters, his economy ruined, his hatred of the Kurdish people proved to be racist propaganda. He threatened the EU with unleashing the refugees from Syria he created with his own blood-soaked hands. He threatens his nearest kinsmen , the Chinese, with crazy Islamism, Whatever he puts his hand to goes horribly wrong.

      Even if the Saudi government did murder Kashoggi, and dispose of his body in diplomatic suitcases, the justification is obvious, that Erdogan has given safe haven to Islamists like Kashoggi and Erdogan. Islamism , lying Islam, has nothing whatsoever to do with real Islam.

      • Paul Greenwood

        lying Islam, has nothing whatsoever to do with real Islam.

        Oh, how to tell them apart ? We poor Kafirs…….how to discern taqiyya

    • Hieroglyph

      The elder Millipede is a national treasure. Constantly waving his arms around to draw attention to himself, and echoing whatever absurd neocon talking point is the flavor of the day, he really is going the extra mile to advance UK interests. And by UK interests, we of course mean neocon interests disguised as UK policy.

      For the record, I think Millpede the Elder may well become UK PM one day. That’ll be fun.

  • giyane

    It seems the fate of the EU has been sealed by its own leaders. If there was any doubt about the benefits of remaining in the EU, or indeed in the UK, the sheer stubbornness of the status quo must have finally dissolved any respect we might have had for them.

    I am glad to say that if the mosque wants to punish me for not agreeing with their destructive jihad or Westminster, or the 27, I sure as hell don’t feel charmed into maintaining my relationship with them.

    Unbelievable childishness on the part of the EU , to take the UK to the wire over Brexit. Our relationship with the EU is now permanently destroyed.. unbelievceably childish of the mosque not to be able to cope with someone whose family were threatened by their evil daesh not to be able to accommodate a different opinion.

    This is how the arrogant are destroyed.

    • Ian

      There’s only one party taking this to the wire, and that is the UK, in the hands of one of the most inept negotiators ever. Beholden, as she has made herself, to the tiny, unrepresentative DUP, and hostage to the rightwing lunatics in her own party, she has painted herself into a corner, when there were many possible compromises available. The EU in comparison are the paragons of rational decision-making, having made it clear from day one what their principles are, and which May has obtusely and stubbornly ignored, believing she can bounce into them some dogs dinner of a deal. An absolute farce and calamity.

      • giyane

        Ian

        The referendum demanded we leave the EU, and the EU have refused to accept the mandate of that referendum, preferring instead to hide behind their own invented dogma, which infuriates all their individual members as mush as it infuriated us. The EU never had any intention of negotiating anything.

        you obviously can’t have ever got divorced. In a divorce, one spouse appeals to all their friends to vouch for their own total rational;ity and the other spouses’ total madness , and that position is maintained until and maybe after the death-bed, and vice-versa. it might make you feel better getting a dig in at the Tories, but the reality is that we have a total breakdown of relationship due to an irreconcileable difference of political vision. it hurts, it stinks and it will go on for a long time.

        However it is totally absurd to allocate blame to one party or the other. Praise be to God we are different from our previous partners. they would like us to suffer, but we are much better off without them. The Tories are much more like the EU than the English are like the Europeans. When we have cut off from the EU, it will be easier to cut off from the Tories.A kick in the balls for big business and globalisation, by us , to them.

        • Ian

          Who knows where you get this stuff – the Mail? The EU have not refused to accept anything. They have been waiting over two years for May to specify what she wants, and she ended up cobbling together a bodge called Chequers which she forced through without any consultation. And which the EU consistently told her they wouldn’t agree to, because it was the same old cherry picking, get the benefits without any of the commitments. The EU have offered a variety of options, and have had to take responsibility for the GFA, which May and co have spurned. As for the referendum, nobody was asked what future relationship with the EU we wanted, and there has been zero consultation with either the voters or parliament. it is an undemocratic coup by the rightwing loons and offshore media owners.

          • giyane

            Ian

            Cherry-picking is what we do in life. I agree with bits of this here and bits of that there.
            Only a Stalinist organisation like the EU could forbid human nature. The Hitlerian shadow crosses the moon as Chancellor Merkel concedes that Germany organising the total destruction of Syria has not proved popular with her electorate. She’d forgotten about democracy, oh dear!.

            I actually don’t agree with any of what Mrs May has cherry-picked. hence it’s rather ridiculous you suggesting I get stuff from a right -wing toilet paper. but I absolutely defend her and admire for telling the EU that the UK has the bloody right to cherry-pick. They appear to have failed the test set by the people and the government. it’s no good them crying and saying they will be a more flexible partner in future. The EU is pile of federalist shit. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Now we know we was Mas-tricked.

          • Clark

            “As for the referendum, nobody was asked what future relationship with the EU we wanted, and there has been zero consultation with either the voters or parliament”

            Exactly. “Remain” meant change nothing, and “Leave” had no meaning, no definition. It never was a referendum. It was Cameron’s publicity stunt to silence his party’s Eurosceptics, but it backfired.

            It casts an interesting light on the Scottish independence referendum. “No” again meant change nothing, but “Yes” was well defined so long as independent Scotland remained in the EU.

            The unionist establishment used that to full advantage by securing threats that when independent, Scotland would be excluded from the EU, thus associating “Yes” with overwhelming ambiguity. How very ironic that England then voted to drag the whole UK into exactly the political vacuum that had been exploited as a threat to deter a “Yes” result in Scotland.

          • Ian

            Talk of Stalin and Hitler is just ridiculous hyperbolic nonsense. You do sound like a Mail reader with these kind of stupid assertions.
            There is nothing inherently wrong with federalism. It would have been a good idea inside the UK.

      • Paul Greenwood

        Not true in fact. There is NO mechanism to leave the EU. Art 50 was a short rope thrown over a long cliff face to invite descent but to hang in mid-air.

        The EU faces collapse with UK withdrawal since the Lisbon Treaty gives a 35% blocking minority on QMV. Germany has always relied on UK, NL, and Sweden to stop France steamrollering policy. Without UK Germany cannot muster 35% and so will watch Club Med and Visegrad push Germany further into Fortress Europe. Trump wants 25% import duties on cars and that is Germany’s trade surplus. UK is Germany’s most profitable car market with 800,000 units. EU is headed for turmoil.

        They should have cut a deal. They should have made a straight proposal for UK to join EFTA/EEA and offered sweeteners to EEA. They could have set out ideas. It is true May is inept, but Trump would have been a far better negotiator because he would have imposed 40% tariffs on meat imports (WTO) to show Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, France how it looks. He would have imposed strict controls on diesel cars and stopped every Polish truck driver to check his tachograph and how he had installed his device to circumvent emission controls.

        The British are saps and show no grit

    • Hieroglyph

      I believe it was Gorbachev who stated, with some surprise, that he couldn’t understand why Europe was changing to a model with many aspects in common with the Soviet Union. I dismissed this idea at first, I really couldn’t see his point. I see it now though. The EU model is extremely authoritarian indeed, and hugely centralized. I was red-pilled by the EU – really, Germany – treatment of Greece, which the mafia would have been proud off. And whilst I am generally supportive of some redistribution, I wonder at the cost. The EU doesn’t do anything effectively or efficiently – other than bully smaller nations.

      This is a threat about independence. Can Scotland by truly independent whilst remaining in the EU? I don’t think so. Perhaps Scotland, once it leaves the UK, required a kind of devolved settlement with the EU, too? A trading agreement, such as we had in the 80’s, that’s good. Anything more, case by case.

      • Laguerre

        “The EU model is extremely authoritarian indeed, and hugely centralized.”

        Only authoritarian and centralised in the eyes of Brexiters – the psychological necessity of depicting your enemy as a monstrous dictatorship. The Brussels bureaucracy is very small, compared to that, for example, of Britain alone. The main policy is directed in a rather familial way by the council of Heads of government. Not surprisingly, some have more influence than others. No doubt the EU is less flexible than desirable, after Blair’s big push in 2004 to get the EU to expand to 28, with the intention of weakening it, on behalf of the Americans (you don’t imagine, I suppose, that Trump’s anti-EU policy is new; he just lets out the secrets of long-term policy).

        • SA

          I voted remain not because I liked the EU as it is but because I liked the alternative even less. Europe has strayed from its ideal of ‘alle menschen werden bruder ‘ to a two tier system with 4 out of the powerful G7 nations pitted against the likes of the Baltic and Balkan states and trying to entice some of the poorest statelets to join in. All this was coupled with its becoming the political and economic arm of NATO thereby loosing its credibility as a counterbalance that can stand up to US in international policy.
          In other words the politicisation of the EU is what is worst whereas some marvellous advances could have been achieved by its remaining an economic power unassociated with NATO and having more equal nations in terms of standards of living and other credentials.
          It will be interesting to see what will happen to Britain in NATO after Brexit and it will equally be interesting as to whether an indipendent Scotland will also remain within NATO.

          • nevermind

            The set up of an unelected echelon of commissioners and a token representative Eu Parliament was as stark in 1976 as it is today.
            Uk politicians did jack s..to change it, so all this hindsight whinging is decades too late.

          • laguerre

            “pitted against the likes of”

            That’s Brexiter language. The EU as enemy. How do you expect the major powers to have less influence than the minor states? Against the Baltics? We’re supposed to be protecting them against Russia, though quite why escapes me, as Russia is not threatening them.

            The EU is an economic and political power, not a military one. The enthusiasm for NATO is mainly among the military men, like Stoltenburg. The enthusiasm in governments is strictly limited, and in decline with Trump’s attacks on Europe, except for Britain of course, always the US poodle in Europe.

          • SA

            Sorry using Brexiters language. Most new states joining the EU are made to join NATO as a condition of joining.
            What I really meant is that the organisation cannot be one if equality. In fact this can sometimes work both ways. In the case of Poland Bulgaria and Rumania the result has been mass movement of cheap labour to the richer countries. In the case of The Baltic states it was sometimes a case of the tail wagging the dog where supposed Russian threats have been used for their purposes.

        • Paul Greenwood

          EU bureaucracy is small because it operates THROUGH the bureaucracy in each EU country to impose its regulations.

    • Deb O'Nair

      “Unbelievable childishness on the part of the EU , to take the UK to the wire over Brexit.”

      Jesus wept.

      • SA

        TM wants to move the wire. She so much enjoyed taking two years to negotiate an impasse with her own party that she wants more time to get them to agree. That is even before she convinces the rest of Parliament and then of course the EU.

  • Arby

    “In Ghana this last week I have made a point of asking a large number of Ghanaians, from drivers and students to businessmen and senior ministers, whether, in exchange for a higher standard of living and free immigration to the UK, they would give up Independence and become a colony again. I have been met with incredulity and outrage that I would even ask such a question, and even anger from those who misunderstood my motive in asking.” I like their sentiment here. But, Let Ghana have something the US wants and let them refuse the US and we’ll see how independent Ghana is from the US-led Corporatocracy.

  • ian seed

    “Ghanaians are of course quite right. Any nation should be outraged at the idea it would voluntarily become subservient, or that its allegiance can be bought for money. Which is why I am incapable of understanding the mentality of unionists in Scotland, ”

    Says the man who practically cried tears when we voted to leave the EU and who called leave voters bigots and racists.

    Why are you so happy to be a colony of the EU, some sad region taking its orders from unelected criminals ?

    • Shatnersrug

      I think the simple answer to that question Ian is, to get rid of the Tories from our lives. I think most remainers would rather be governed by an “unelected Eurocrat” (whatever that means),who gives ‘em a bit of health and safety at work and a shorter working week coulped with the ability to enjoy Europe as a citizen than be stuck in the UK with Elected bastards doubling the working week and tearing up standards and practices, and generally being of a staggeringly incompetent class of imbeciles who are told they are naturally born to rule from the earliest age.

      The government of this country is and has been so shockingly incompetent and craven for so long now, that anything seems more appealing

      • Tom

        Correct. Brexit might begin to be appealing if we had some semblance of democracy in the UK. Sadly we just have a country run by corporate gangsters via a rigged political system that keeps everyone except themselves out of power. The EU aren’t perfect but they are vastly better than what we have at Westminster.

      • Geoffrey

        Good summary. I suppose you could say that it is fear of local democracy ,what happens though when that Eurocrat does something you don’t like ? Aren’t you buggered ?

  • ian seed

    “In fact, I think the arguments Scotland will be worse off after Independence are demonstrably nonsense. But even were they true, I cannot express the degree of my contempt for those who value national freedom in pennies, and weigh self-respect against gold.”

    WHICH IS PRECISELY WHY WE SHOULD LEAVE THE EU .

  • ian seed

    Scotland – we want INDEPENDENCE!!
    Scotland leaves the union….

    3 weeks later….

    Scotland – we want to join the EU !!
    So you DON’T want independence?

    • kathy

      Oh for heaven’s sake. You can’t be that thick surely to equate the EU with some imperialistic entity? Go and inform yourself about the EU before posting such ill-informed brexiter nonsense.

      • giyane

        Kathy
        A federal EU might elect its own President Trompe on our doorstep. Brexit is about whether we want to be part of a Federal EU that is capable of Napoleonic or Hitlerian power in which case our cuckoo has to sing the tune at he bidding of our historic rivals. It is only the threat by the EU that it intends to take the EU down the Federal road that sets alarm bells going in the British mind.

        Craig was one of those who created this Frankenstein, so logically he has to maintain his position that exit from the EU is an ignominious death of our beliefs and values. No, ignominious death of the UK would be : to walk hand in hand with the Frankinstein monster like some episode of the Munsters..

        • kathy

          There is no office in the EU that equals the power of the President of America. The EU is a cofederation of sovereign states which each democratically elect their representatives to agree the procedures and practices of the EU. It is not perfect but it is a lot more democratic than the UK .

      • Loony

        Ah Kathy it is excellent news to find someone who is well informed and has obviously undertaken a great deal of research in order to conclude that the EU is in no way analogous to an imperialistic entity. Here is a link to British Standards

        https://www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/

        It covers over 50,000 separate standards. Obviously someone as well informed as you will be aware that over the past 30 years or so substantially everyone of these standards has been the subject of various amendments and revisions so as to more closely align them with German standards.

        It would obviously help to dispel ill informed nonsense if you could just explain why it has been appropriate for the UK to align itself with Germany (as opposed to Germany aligning itself with the UK). I do wonder whether any of this has had any cost to the UK and whether any UK manufacturing facilities may have been run by racists who chose to destroy their own businesses rather than to align themselves with German standards.

        • kathy

          Oh, so nothing to do with the EU 2019 anti-tax avoidance measures due to take effect the first day after Brexit? It was when Cameron first became aware of this new proposal that he suddenly thought up the wheeze of an EU referendum. Follow the money as they say and forget all the other nonsense to distract you and stir up your British imperiaist nationalism rubbish.

      • TFS

        Yep, how ignorant and thick of Ian to suggest to EU has ambitions of being Imperialistic.

        You did notice Germany and EU screwed Cyrus didn’t you?

        Oh, and the Middle East. You did notice UK and its other friends in low places in the EU help set the Middle East alight.

        Maybe you noticed how the EU cosies up to the most disgusting regimes in the world.

        Maybe you noticed how the EU and its other friends in low places (NATO) is taking us to the brink of war.

        Maybe you noticed how the EU Mycarthyites are stirring up anti Russian rubbish.

        The EU has NO signs of being an imperialistic entity. Are you f….g serious?

        Go and inform yourself about the EU before posting such ill informed REMOANER nonsense.

    • Jeff

      Pillock. Th EU won’t rob Scotland of all her resources and money and hand some of it back and tell her to be grateful, which is the position Scotland is in at the moment within the UK.

      • TFS

        No they’ll just help bleed and turn Scotland into a debt dependent when the oil runs out.

        That EU, sure has some nice printing presses though. That should make you feel safe.

        Noone rails against the hand that feeds it.

        And me, I hate the way that the UK treats Scotland. I would love to see Scotland independent, but don’t join the EU.

  • Edward Synge

    Craig Murray appears to have omitted or perhaps deliberately left out the genuine talent in waiting to lead a renewed sensible Tory party, messrs Tugandhat and Rory
    Stewart, the current cabinet needs to be seriously refreshed!

    • giyane

      Edward Synge.

      No Tory talent ever sticks years of being out of office, which I am certain will be the result of Tory failure in Brexit.
      In fact that’s why we have the low – intellectual scum that inhabit the nasty party at present, like I D-S the destroyer of welfare Benefit, and Blasé Johnson an old Egonian with bad social habits.

    • Carl

      Tughenot? He is one of the most dangerously unhinged characters on a political scene that is packed with them. He seems to genuinely fancy an encounter with the red army, despite the humiliation of having to be bailed out in Basra and Helmand. Rory Stewart’s leadership and administrative qualities are evident in the state of Britain’s prisons. No, if either of those assumed the throne the spiral would just continue, perhaps even quicken.In any case, haven’t the events of the past decade given you pause before heralding bright young talents to renew the Tory party? Bright, shiny Dave and his buddy Gideon departed the stage leaving utter chaos in their wake and without having achieved a thing of benefit to anybody, saving a tiny clique at the summit.

      • SA

        Couldn’t agree more. But Edward omust have forgot another talentGavin Williamson. He certainly knows how to deal with threats, just tell the to go away and shut up. Don’t know where they find these people.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Monteverdi October 31, 2018 at 23:33
      I don’t know about the most trusted, but they were at least smart enough to not allow comments (as usual)!

  • N_

    Brexit secretary Dominic Raab today said that a deal was in the offing and then he backtracked within hours. Why? The answer I think is that this was a deliberate act of manipulation of the money markets, perhaps in response to the indication by Standard and Poor’s that “no deal” will cause Britain’s ratings at the agencies to get cut. Which is precisely what would happen. As I keep saying, huge profits will be made by some. They’ll have to act fast, of course, preferably on advance knowledge.

    Nigel Farage’s statement on the night of the referendum that he thought Remain was going to clinch it was also an act of money market manipulation, even if he hasn’t had his arse put in jail for it. It was in the same ballpark as Elon Musk’s effort for which he got handed a USD 20 million fine, albeit far more deniable.

    If it’s “No deal”, will we be softened up for it first? Who knows? It will happen in whatever makes makes the most profit for a tiny few for the least effort, drool, drool.

    • Laguerre

      Raab didn’t say it today; it was the publication of a letter sent a week ago. Rather ancient history, but the publication choice may support your point.

  • Sharp Ears

    Bloodbath at the border coming up? Hope not Donald.

    ‘President Donald Trump says he may send up to 15,000 troops to border with Mexico where thousands of people are heading in a caravan seeking entry to US. This is more than double the number voiced previously by the Pentagon.

    “We may go up to anywhere between 10,000 and 15,000 military personnel,” in addition to the existing border patrol staff, Trump told reporters outside the White House on Wednesday. By comparison, the US currently has approximately 14,000 troops in Afghanistan.’

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rt.com/usa/442787-more-troops-border-caravan/amp/

    • giyane

      The Hondurans are fleeing violence, not poverty. And Mexico looks cute, with lovely bungalows set in beautiful tropical countryside. So , who made the violence in Honduras? Donald’s Merkel moment.

        • J

          I don’t know of any progressive who for whom Clinton is beloved. Quite the contrary, as you well know, her poor human rights record was how your beloved Trump got past the final hurdle. We discussed it right here before Trump, before you came out of the alt-reich closet, but not before I correctly had your number.

          • Loony

            I am unsure what motivates you to sacrifice your own credibility by denying obvious and verifiable facts and seek to divert attention from the criminal activities of the powerful by launching ad hominem attacks.

            The question at hand is simple. Did Hillary Clinton act to destabilize Honduras and consequently create the problems that are now being seen with the “Honduras caravan”?

          • J

            Please enlighten us. Who are these progressives for whom Hilary Clinton is either beloved or respected? Name some of them.

            I realised a while ago your name is a nod to your long term PR work on craigs blog and a reference to the 1987 ‘Loony Left’ Public Relations campaign and as such, is nothing more than an implied insult to those you correspond with. True? False?

    • Laguerre

      I was just thinking what a convenient threat the caravan is for Trump’s midterm elections. Very likely Trump’s people organised the caravan of migrants themselves at just the right moment before the elections, and it will mysteriously disperse once the elections are over.

      • J

        Risky strategy, if so. To wit, forcing Trumpers to commit to the logic of the administration fully, or leave. But what if the situation goes very far south, the ‘remainers’ being fully committed both to Trump and to shedding blood, are a concentrated and ‘invested’ following. I can foresee that if this occurs, the moment might even come to be seen as the opening shots of a second American Civil War.

        Too dramtic?

    • nevermind

      Add to that? Al the nutters and preppers who are getting their ammo guns and provisions packed tp assist their glorious mouthpiece.
      why do only good presidents meet a violent death in the US?
      So fed up with the bibice’s coverage of anything American, why the heck don’t they move over there.

      Split them up now!

    • Vivian O'Blivion

      Pay nae heed to the blatherings of Trump. He just makes STUFF up in the moment. The question is whether he is in conscious control of his blathering or whether grandpa has gone gaga. Apparently the Saudi munitions contract is securing 600,000 American jobs. Just an improbable number plucked from the ether but there is nobody left in the Whitehouse with the energy to swim against the tide of mendacity.

  • Sharp Ears

    Fast train to nowhere for the Palestinians but on their land.

    ‘On board the new Jerusalem-Tel Aviv fast train

    It’s been a long time coming, but Israeli commuters are finally able to board double-decker high-speed trains on a new link from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv.

    Construction has been plagued by engineering and planning challenges, and the last section of the line is still not open. The route has also angered some Palestinians, as part of the track runs in tunnels under the occupied West Bank.

    Transport Minister Yisrael Katz hopes it will eventually whisk passengers from secular, liberal Tel Aviv to a “Donald Trump Station” next to the Western Wall, one of Judaism’s holiest sites.;
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-46035960/on-board-the-new-jerusalem-tel-aviv-fast-train

    ‘secular, liberal Tel Aviv’. Surely not BBC? In Apartheid Israel? As for the proposed ‘Donald Trump station’, there are no words.

    ‘The line will also run through parts of the occupied West Bank, such as the Palestinian village of Beit Surik, located on the outskirts of Jerusalem and in the Latrun Valley.

    Despite the fact the rail link will illegally use Palestinian land, Palestinians will generally not be allowed to take advantage of the new form of transport.

    Palestinians who live in the West Bank are not allowed to travel to Israel after returning from travelling abroad via Ben-Gurion. Instead, they must cross overland to Jordan instead to fly out of the airport in Amman.’
    https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2018/9/26/israel-uses-occupied-palestinian-lands-for-high-speed-rail-link

    The Transport Minister concerned, Yisrael Katz, has some record just like Bibi.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_Katz_(politician,_born_1955)

    There is Russian, Italian and German involvement in the construction. I like the sound of Dana Engineering. Any connection to Dana International of Eurovision fame?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv–Jerusalem_railway
    The lawyers must have done well out of all the wrangling.

    • Dungroanin

      Exchange rate is lousy and you’ll need to get a Thai driving license – but it is warm!
      The junta and aristos and CIA still don’t want democracy – but it is warm.
      Chockdikrup.

  • nevermind

    Oh wonderous rumour fit for a squeal,
    There might a financial Brexit deal,
    No solutions for millions of Eu citizens,
    Just joyous laughter, grins, the cabal got their way
    Bye bye you hardworking immigrants, good riddance
    no solutions for trade, small business is left in the dark,
    My word is fkuc off, you are havinh a lark.

    This mornings rumour puts the priorities of this wretched Government into perspective, not even worth spitting at.

    • nevermind

      Whats more needed here? A link to paypal garnering pennies and proffering meta data to them? Or a timed edit button like Squonk provides?

    • SA

      At 2;37 Raed Saleh states that Russia has assassinated the spy Skripal, not even corrected by Justin Webb who never questioned him the way he questions pro Corbyn labour politicians. Such is the bias of the BBC. Complaint sent but not holding out for a meaningful answer.

    • SA

      If you are the hegemon you get to decide what is normal and moreover the rules do not apply to you.

      • Sharp Ears

        SA No nothing to do with Janáček. This user name evolved from others, such as Bright Eyes, when I was attempting to avoid the attentions of someone else on here who was pursuing me and not in a good way.

  • Tom Welsh

    “The worse off were solidly pro-Independence (except for the Orangemen, whose thought processes are not rational)”.

    That’s unworthy of you, Craig. Everyone’s thought processes are rational – and if you think otherwise, it’s because your assumptions and desires are different from theirs. It might even conceivably be because they know things that you don’t.

      • Sharp Ears

        What is May going to do when she can’t get the NI border sorted out. She has nobody else to pay and there’s her tiny majority gone. What was the sum? £12m

    • Clark

      “Everyone’s thought processes are rational”

      …as evidenced by the paradise of harmony and understanding we see in the world around us.

    • N_

      @Tom – “Everyone’s thought processes are rational

      What if I jab you with a hatpin? What would you think?
      At what age did we all achieve the state you believe we achieved?
      So we have no unconscious or subconscious? No feelings that might affect our cogitations?
      What do the women you know think of your above-quoted statement?

      But you are right to slate what Craig says about the Orange Order. They are as rational and as irrational as the SNP, any day of the week.

      Perhaps some, naively, “believe in” the goal of Scotland becoming a “pragmatic” “Holland of the North”? 🙂

      • Republicofscotland

        “What if I jab you with a hatpin? ”

        N.

        In Victorian times ladies were advised to remove their hatpins, and place them between their lips when travelling on the train through tunnels, so as to avoid being kissed in the dark by a man.

  • Tom

    They’re launching a ‘money laundering crackdown’ today.
    ‘Protesting too much’, one might say.

  • Pete

    “Any nation should be outraged at the idea it would voluntarily become subservient, or that its allegiance can be bought for money”

    That pretty much sums up the UK government’s relationship with Saudi Arabia, likewise their mouthpiece the BBC.

    • Loony

      Saudi Arabia is just one piece of the US hegemonic puzzle.

      The US$ is the global reserve currency and it has to be backed by something. It was backed by gold until Nixon closed the gold window in 1971. Thereafter it effectively became backed by Saudi oil. In return for a Saudi undertaking to only sell oil in $’s the US effectively guaranteed the security of Saudi in general and the house of Saud in particular.

      In an era of micro attention spans not many people will be interested in the fact that this all became about as a consequence of the Vietnam war and a puerile attempt by France to give the US a good kicking. Actions have consequences and what you see in Saudi Arabia is a consequence of actions taken in the 1960’d.

      Independent countries are limited to Russia, China, Iran, Syria and North Korea. It would be more accurate to say the citizens of the west would be outraged at the idea that their country may take on the complexion of Russia, China, Iran, Syria or North Korea.

      Europe is entirely subservient to the German economic powerhouse and in turn Germany is entirely subservient to the US. What is anyone going to do about it? Nothing is the most likely answer.

      In the UK people attempted to get off their knees and desist from paying tribute from the regional hegemonic power. Now look what is happening to that. Everyone is a racist or a bigot or too stupid to understand. Voting is anti democratic unless you vote again and then it may or may not be democratic depending on the result.

      Scottish independence under such circumstances would be just a joke with the handy side effect that it would create and enrich yet another “governing class” Maybe if Scotland became independent they could have a public whip round to raise money to build a statue to Goethe and celebrate his observation that “There are none so firmly enslaved as those who falsely believe themselves to be free”

  • SA

    So what exactly is going on in northern and eastern Syria. Daesh has successfully gained more territory from the US backed SDF in the East Euphrates valley extending to the Iraqi border. SDF Turkish fighters meanwhile withdrawn from this area to counteract Turkish anti Kurdish offensive in the Northern part near Manbij. Of course it seems that the US protects the SDF only against the SAA but not against Daesh or Turkey. One unruly US ally (MBS) meanwhile has been neutralised but the other one (Erdogan) has free reign. And obviously Daesh still remains in the equation for the US (possibly also for Erdogan) to remain in Syria only to stop the SAA from liberating its whole territory under a national government.
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/eastern-euphrates-under-daesh-threat-again-as-sdf-troops-forced-to-confront-turkish-military-in-northern-syria/
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/kurdish-forces-allegedly-halt-isis-operation-in-east-syria-to-deal-with-turkish-military-invasion/

    • michael norton

      Turkey thinks it is the kingpin.
      In some respects, this is true, hence the coup to get rid of the sultan Erdogan.
      Turkey would like to control all of Syria, if it could, however it will settle for huge tracks of Syria and a huge say in the rest of Syria.

    • laguerre

      I should think the Americans don’t know what to do about the Turks. The Kurds, don’t forget, are not really interested in pursuing Da’ish right down to the Euphrates, as that area is not, and never will be, Kurdish territory – it is peopled by Sunni Arab tribes. Why sacrifice the flower of Rojavan youth to knock off some territory for the Americans which will have to be given up? The Turkish threat is more important.

  • Neil McFarlane

    As an Englishman, I was moved by the kind of “Let’s stay together, friend” sentiment directed at Scotland during the independence referendum, but now I’m just embarrassed. I’m still against the breakup of the UK. It could all be put right if there was a government in Westminster to be proud of. As it is, I couldn’t blame the Scots for escaping, but then I’d be stuck here with these cretins in charge.

    But having said that, all these questions of nationalism are childish nonsense compared to the looming environmental disaster.

  • Sharp Ears

    Tracey Crouch, the minister concerned, is on the point of resigning over the delay in implementing controls on fixed odds betting machines to which many are addicted with terrible and tragic results including suicide.

    Minister Tracey Crouch ‘on brink of quitting’ after Philip Hammond delays fixed-odds gambling crackdown
    1st November 2018
    Culture minister Tracey Crouch is reportedly on the brink of resigning after the Chancellor delayed a major clampdown on addictive fixed-odds betting terminals.
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/economy/business-regulation/news/99526/minister-tracey-crouch-brink-quitting-after-philip

    Betting industry 1 Concern for humanity 0

    The betting companies make considerable donations to those MPs who lobby for them, eg Philip Davies, the well known filibusterer.

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11816/philip_davies/shipley#register

    Vile people. I admire Tracey Crouch but don’t understand why she is in the Tory partei.

    • Clark

      “fixed odds betting machines”

      Robots. Exploitation robots, robots that answer the ‘phone and make callers jump through hoops, surveillance robots spying for AI systems that predict and manipulate individual human behaviour, ticket robots, security robots, killer robots. We’re creating Hell on Earth:

      https://autonomousweapons.org/slaughterbots/

      • Loony

        I really don’t know what to make of Elon Musk but he considers AI to be a grave threat to the species – more so in his opinion than nuclear weapons. He also points out that a range of laws exist to prevent individuals from making their own nuclear weapons but no laws seem to exist to prevent anyone from developing AI as they see fit.

        It makes you think

    • Mary Paul

      These machines are a menace and should be controlled ASAP – disgraceful way for the government and betting firms to make money. I wonder if it is the Treasury which is delaying things or lobbying by the betting firms.

  • Republicofscotland

    Well, its twenty years ago today that the European Court of Human Rights became a full time institution.

    The Tories after Brexit want to replace the ECHR, with a British Bill of Rights, whatever that may be, however I doubt it could possibly live up to the current ECHR.

    When Theresa May was making a pigs ear of the job as Home secretary, May promised to put forward a plan to scrap the Human Rights Act, she might yet get her wish.

    Ironically it was Britain that pushed most for the court, and British lawyers drafted most of wording on behalf of the Council of Europe.

    However the Tories want to see the court gone from Britian, even thought the court is separate from the EU. Infact Britain has lost just 0.4% of the 507 cases taken against it. In 2013, Britain lost its case on the Snooper Charter, it breached ECHR rules, maybe that, and several other distasteful policies waiting in the wings to be rolled out post-Brexit, are some of the reasons why the British government wants shot of the court.

    • Molloy

      .

      “And looked at over the long run, the picture seems even more damning: 513 judgments, 301 defeats between 1959 and 2014.”

      https://fullfact.org/law/uks-record-human-rights-cases/

      imho, ECHR a court of ‘the establishment’ for many jobsworths and virtue signallers. Often to frustrate genuine applicants.

      e.g. Has anybody attempted to download the full pdf of ECHR application lately? Absolutely priceless Kafka.
      Deliberate obstruction?

      Access to Justice and competent legal representation in the UK anyone?!

      .

  • Republicofscotland

    As if we needed confirmation of Trump’s allegiance to Israel. Naftali Bennett, Israels minister for Dispora Affairs, has come out and said in the defence of the Donald.

    “With President Trump, we never have worry if he has our backs.”

    • Sharp Ears

      Bitte deaktivieren Sie Ihren Adblocker!
      Warum sehe ich SPIEGEL ONLINE nicht mehr?
      Vermutlich haben Sie einen Adblocker aktiviert.

      Sie haben gar keinen Adblocker oder bereits eine Ausnahme hinzugefügt?

      Bitte prüfen Sie, ob Sie ähnliche Erweiterungen, Do-not-Track-Funktionen oder den Inkognito-Modus aktiviert haben, die ebenfalls Werbung unterdrücken. Hier finden Sie mehr Informationen.
      Welche Bedeutung Werbung für SPIEGEL ONLINE hat, was wir für Ihre Sicherheit im Netz tun, wie unsere Redaktion arbeitet – Fragen und Antworten finden Sie hier and much more.

      Crikey Nevermind. This popped up when I clicked on the link. It looks alarming. Go to jail..?

      • Paul Greenwood

        Don’t know what you have running on your browser but it came up just fine. It is simply saying you are blocking their ads or perhaps even their cookies

      • pete

        I use an adblocker but didn’t get that message…
        What the article said was:
        In his book “We Germans,” journalist Matthias Matussek writes about an evening spent at the German Embassy in London. The ambassador was hosting the writer Antonia S. Byatt as his guest of honor and Matussek was on hand to make a toast to the author. In response, she surprised him by asking what he thought of the idea of a European constitution. Matussek answered by saying it’s probably not such a bad idea if the European community of nations agrees on a few foundational principles.

        Lady Byatt then said: “You know, we British don’t need a constitution. We are the oldest democracy in the world.” She paused briefly before continuing: “For young countries like you Germans, constitutions could very well be useful.” It would be almost impossible, writes Matussek, to overstate the haughtiness and contemptuousness that dripped from her voice. “Essentially, she was saying,” he writes, “you are barbarians, you have only recently put down your cudgels. You need the leash.”

        Such are the British, and we love them for it. They are never short of an answer and constantly ready to put someone in their place. The problem, though, is that if you act like you are the center of the world, you should actually be the center, or something close to it. As things currently stand, though, the British soon won’t even be within shouting distance of the center of Europe.

        The United Kingdom is currently demonstrating how a country can make a fool of itself before the eyes of the entire world. What was once the most powerful empire on earth is now a country that can’t even find its way to the door without tripping over its own feet.

        It has now been 28 months since the British voted to pull out of the European Union. Unfortunately, they haven’t taken a single step further since then.

        Nothing But Sympathy

        When Theresa May shows up in Brussels with yet another Brexit-related proposal, you can be sure that just one day later, it will no longer be worth the paper it is printed on. She either presents ideas that Brussels has long since rejected or her plans have already been chucked in the round file by her own party. Or Boris Johnson has torn her apart in his column in the Telegraph.

        Until recently, I felt nothing but sympathy when I would see the British prime minister wander in front of the camera at EU summits, with her crooked smile and kooky offers. Lately, though, I have been catching myself thinking: “Go with God. But go!”

        No deal is better than a bad deal? If the British are convinced of that, then it must be true. A hard Brexit would also cost us a fair bit, there is no question. But it is nothing compared to what is awaiting the British.

        There has been no shortage of articles about what the golden future will look like that London has promised British citizens. First, the trucks will back up all the way to Wales because the borders are back. Then the petrol stations will run out of petrol and there will be a scarcity of drugs in the hospitals. Meanwhile, once all the Polish plumbers have gone back home, there will nobody to call when the toilet clogs up.

    • Molloy

      .

      “Only mediocrity shall prosper.” Yawning Heights; Alexander Zinoviev

      .

      Ditto the UK regime.

      .

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