Mourning A Terrorist 445

The aim of this blog is to put forward reasonable points of view not easily found elsewhere, and it is important not to shy away from saying things because they run directly contrary to the popular mood. The stabbing of three people in Streatham was a tragedy, and while all are recovering, the mental and perhaps physical damage will be life-changing. But the death of the terrorist, Sudesh Amman, is also a human tragedy. The government’s populist response – to lock up those convicted of terrorist offences for ever longer and to seek to ban early release, even retrospectively – is crass and will make the situation worse, not better.

Sudesh Amman died aged only twenty. He had been jailed at eighteen for crimes committed when he was just seventeen. It is vital to state that those crimes were thought crimes – before he went to jail, Sudesh Amman had never been accused of attacking anyone. He was jailed for the terrorist fantasies he harboured as a child. Whether he would ever actually have attacked anybody had he never been sent to jail is a question it is impossible to answer. That he attacked people after being sent to jail is a simple fact.

That is not to downplay the idea he was a dangerous child. He had expressed the ambition to be a terrorist, posted violent fantasy online, downloaded posts on bomb-making and had acquired a combat knife and an air pistol. He may have gone on to carry out an attack. Or it may all have been just the bluster and rage of a frustrated child in a single parent family of five kids living in unpleasant circumstances.

It seems to me that intervention by the state was entirely reasonable in view of the seventeen year old’s state of mind. It is not at all obvious to me that branding a child, who had never attacked anybody, as a “terrorist”, thus destroying his prospects in life, convicting him of terrorist thought crime as soon as he turned eighteen, and sending him to prison to mix with hardened criminals and actual terrorists, was a sensible way for the state to intervene. By fueling his sense of alienation and injustice, that seems to me a course of action almost guaranteed to ensure that this child would emerge from prison as a twenty year old determined to commit an actual terrorist attack. Which is of course exactly what happened, and the death of young Sudesh Amman himself was the inevitable end of the tragedy.


A seventeen year old harbouring fantasies of gross violence, but who has not carried those fantasies into action, should be a mental health issue not a criminal law issue. The state intervention should have been aimed at making Sudesh well and with future prospects in life. That may have involved a period of involuntary in-patient treatment, and we should have facilities that can provide that without branding young people terrorists before they have done anything violent.

It is of course worth noting also that with Sudesh as with so many others, if the UK had not invaded or attacked Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, his sense of injustice towards Muslims, which he fantasised about fighting to correct, would never have arisen in the first instance.

The idea that in future the answer is to lock away youngsters for life for thinking wrong, is at the moment extremely popular and helping the Tories surf still higher on their wave of xenophobic acclaim. That will simply stoke more grievance and create more terrorism. No matter how unpopular, those of us who try to think calmly and sensibly have a duty to oppose the baying of the mob.


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445 thoughts on “Mourning A Terrorist

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  • Manjushri

    How an American 16 year old handled the FBI after he had posted offensive messages:
    It’s not nice posting messages about killing anyone, but I think this video is of interest in this digital age where there is a permanent audit trail of an individuals online activities. I suspect there are keywords that digitally trigger the attention of authorities to build lists of trouble makers and those that challenge authority, particularly those who have a different political agenda which challenges the current norm. I beleive they are known as dissidents. My opinion is that digital communications technology is (or has) made free speech a last century thing. Time to adapt using invisible ink and carrier pigeons ?

  • Royd

    Unpopular as it might be, I agree with you Mr Murray. His was a life wasted, as were those of the lives he had taken. I found myself grieving not only his victims but him too. He is as much a victim of merciless ideology as his victims. It is that, that we should be attacking and seeking to bring down. Surely, we must have learned that creating a narrative of ‘them and us’ and ruthlessly pursuing it, helps not a single one of us to live in peace and harmony. The system of justice, such as it is, in this country is brutal and lacking in understanding and compassion. The possibility for redemption barely exists and is a vanishing hope under this Government. The West has given ample food to feed terrorism – as a start to understanding, we should at least begin to acknowledge this.

    • giyane


      The merciless ideology is a Western creation, specifically the Islamophobic creation of Zionists who reject both of the successors to the Monotheism they profess, i.e. the followers of Muhammad SAW and of Christ pbuh.

      That nihilist ideoplogy is the ideology of a small group of people who rejected the prophetts they were sent.
      Out of jealousy and indignation, now that they have acquired a bit of land by conquest and terror, they now teach and brainwash to their teachings the followers of the prophets..

      I know the truth hurts, but it’s impossible to understand how such a young person can be filled with hate unless you see the hidden shadows guiding them. The British elites want the status quo of a monarchy and the advantages of Empire to persist. They promote them endlessly and boringly in their MSM and they have created a narrative of hate against the Muslims.

      Somehow the failed ambitions of the Jews and the British have become intertwined to create the bogeyman of Islam. Unfortunately the British have a long history of using Muslims spies against Muslims , utilising their legitimacy as their own kind. Naturally God does not approve of this Muslim on Muslim treachery, but being the Owner of the Day of Judgement He has His own resources to hand.

      What is required right now is for humans to stand up against our Queen and country and the whole Judae-Christian order , intellectually , peacefully and inform them that the prophet of our time is Muhammad SAW.
      It’s simple. Tell the old farts it’s over. Plenty of time for vengeance after they’re gone.
      What happens when you speak peacefully against the existing order is what is happening to Julian Assange,
      The old Western order is the violent entity, not the Muslims, or the speakers of truth to power.

      Most of the leaders of Islam want to get rich by conforming and pleasing the old farts in power.
      Nothing could be more frustrating for the idealistic young.

      • Antonym

        I never SAW a rational Westerner convert and even defend irrational + violent+ backward Islam, but giyane is my first. What a marriage can do to a person…
        Pakistan, Iran or Irak should be your paradise on Earth, not the England or Scotland.

        • Giyane


          The pleasure is all mine. Western unbridled hostility to Islam has meant that I have lived all my adult life under Western wars against either socialism or Islam, starting with Yugislavia and apparently without end in sight.

          As communications make the world smaller , the Juaeo Christian world gets ever more desperate and violent against truth of any sort. Maybe the Coroavirus is just another piece of furniture thrown in the path of righteousness as the criminals see the blue lights flashing.

          Projecting their violence onto Others is disappointing, but proves that they have not read or understood the simple message about motes and beams in the eyes of the beholder by the prophet of Islsm Jesus Peace be upon him in whose name they constantly persecute Islam.

          The young Muslim should be forgiven for his/her rage at 40 years of constant wrecking of the Muslim countries by articles like Blair and Cameron. This glacier if western terror will melt, and the sea-level of faith will rise.
          Insha Allah Sudesh Amman will be forgiven for his anger as a martyr of Islam. At least he did not just sit on his hands and take the thrashing by the Western powers like an obedient slave to Tory Mammon. Like you.

        • Tom Welsh

          “I never SAW a rational Westerner”.

          To begin with I thought that was your first proposition, and I thought it a little exaggerated. Although sometimes hard to find, they do exist – there are even a few participating on this thread.

          I am gratefuly, though, to you for reminding me of this.

          Reporter: What do you think of western civilization?
          Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (Mahatma Gandhi): I think it would be a good idea.

        • Giyane

          ” what a marriage can do to a person ”

          Before we steam off to another topic, I’d like to put you right on your assumption that I came into Islam because of marriage. In fact a came into Islam because of a divorce, because I didn’t think the Gospels made you put up with your wife committing adultery. So I read them . And they don’t. And because I moved out and had come Birmingham for the first time I saw practising Muslims. So I read the Qur’an. It doesn’t either.

          I married a Muslim wife about 8 years after reverting to the true religion of Islam.
          Pipe and smoke. If you can.

    • N_

      My goodness, what a disgrace it is for the government to publish figures in that way, without proper context! The first question is at what level the difference between 29.5% and 31.5% is significant. It may well be “highly significant”, i.e. at better than the 0.1% level, but it would be nice to know. The second question is how the difference correlates with difference in class composition. If one wanted a crude statistic for class composition that is relevant to this context, one could take the lower quartile for incomes for the whole population and note the percentage of the black population whose incomes are lower than that figure. I predict that the percentage would be more than 2% greater than the 25% (by definition) figure for the whole population.

      This is so important, because there really are those who believe that people of some ethnicities are genetically determined to being more likely to be less intelligent and more criminal than people of other ethnicities, however much the left wants to ignore the existence of those who believe that kind of rubbish.

      Robert Plomin, the British government’s main “twin studies” man, has openly praised the work of Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein.

      • N_

        Something from the Lebedev-owned Osborne-edited Evening Standard: “Dozens who avoided Jamaica deportation included one convicted of manslaughter, Government says”…and the body text refers to those “convicted of manslaughter, violent offences and rape”. An image shows a person holding a banner saying “Solidarity with the Windrush Generation”. WTF has this got to do with what the racist right and the ignorant left call the “Windrush generation”? Jamaica became independent in 1962!

        Who really has a problem with convicted foreign rapists being deported after they have served their sentences? Most countries expel foreign criminals, especially those convicted of such a serious crime as rape, once they’ve served their sentences. I oppose even rapists being denied their right to get legal advice, but it seems to me that the reason the British authorities failed to respect that right in this case isn’t because they wanted to deport these people as soon as possible, but rather because they wanted a story such as this to appear in the media, with the aim of stirring up racial hatred. What’s with putting them all on the same plane? Did a large group of Jamaican prisoners all finish their sentences on the same day? I don’t think so! It’s as if the government is whipping up a chorus of “Send them back!” aimed at black people in Britain in general, most of whom are British and not in prison for anything.

        There may perhaps be grounds on which some of these people should be allowed to remain in Britain, but I can’t see that there are for the whole group.

        • Dave Lawton

          Yes it was the Labour party that brought in the the UK Borders Act 2007 which made provision for the automatic deportation of foreign criminals.Then they started the deportations.Party of deportation.

          • N_

            Surely typical before 2007 for a convicted foreign rapist who had entered the country on a visa wasn’t that his visa would be renewed on his release from prison?

            The left is not getting what’s happening. The rightwing government and rightwing media are whipping up racism by bundling together crime, foreign immigration, and skin colour. The right absolutely loves it when the left sees the defence of black British people who were born in the colonies and who came to live in Britain many decades ago and who have been deported or put under the threat of deportation, mainly because they didn’t apply to get formal recognition of their British citizenship to which they are and should be entitled, with the defence of foreign rapists and drug dealers. Jamaica has been independent since 1962 and what is the problem with a Jamaican guy who comes here, commits rape or commits other violence for the Yardies, and who gets convicted and then serves his sentence, not being allowed to stay here? The scenarios are totally different. The two groups of people are totally different. It is scary to watch the left get “owned” by the right.

          • Dave Lawton

            “Surely typical before 2007 for a convicted foreign rapist who had entered the country on a visa wasn’t that his visa would be renewed on his release from prison?”

            No it was Jacqui Smith who was Home Secretary at the time she deported about four thousand killers and rapists.

        • N_

          It is saddening to watch Jeremy Corbyn get kicked all over the place by the Tories on this. The far right with their government, politicians and media are deciding what “game” is played here. The left is very much on its back foot, as racism is being whipped up. Meanwhile…the reshuffle or perhaps something much bigger than a reshuffle is imminent. There may well be a smaller cabinet (or body that plays the role of a cabinet – possibly called something else) and a number of figures may be appointed to it who are not currently MPs, who may or may not be given peerages. It’s interesting we haven’t heard much about Dominic Cummings taking his needed time off work for surgery, to return (if at all) to a job with considerably reduced hours. His operation was supposed to happen immediately after Britain left the EU on 31 October and then immediately following 31 January. Got to wonder whether he needs one at all. Perhaps he is as fit as a fiddle. Giving it some of the old “cheng and ch’i“, are we, Dom?

          • Paul Barbara

            @ N_ February 12, 2020 at 18:00
            ‘..Got to wonder whether he needs one at all. Perhaps he is as fit as a fiddle…’
            Maybe it’s just a cover for his secret trip to Tel Aviv for instructions.

      • Spencer Eagle

        What do you mean proper context? Facts are now a disgrace? Maybe you want to excuse systematic criminallity and reoffending by certain races as a means of avoiding labelling yourself ‘racist’. Don’t bother responding with the ‘underprivileged’ drivel either, as a matter of fact the most underprivileged members of UK society, both in terms of education and poverty, are young white males. Tellingly they don’t commit a disproportionate number of crimes in relation to their population density. It’s even more pronounced in the US where 52% of all murders are committed by blacks representing only 13% of the population, and they aint killing rich white folk either, 93% of blacks murdered are killed by another black. Something desperately needs to be done about it, but hiding from the figures because they offend you is not the way to do it.

        • nevermind

          The underpriviledged white youth still has more opportunities than a black youth, due to iherent racist mindset that is fed by a racist MsM. A fact of Uk life.
          Previous imigrant generations being racist to the latest incoming immigrants is also a fact, try speaking to Irish immigrants in Blackburn about immigrants from Bangladesh Gujarat or Pakistan.

          • Spencer Eagle

            ‘The underprivileged white youth still has more opportunities than a black youth, due to inherent racist mindset that is fed by a racist MsM. A fact of Uk life.’…..Really? oh, come off it. The UK has spent thirty years and billions of pounds stacking the deck in favor of ethnic minorities in all areas, from education to employment and there’s little to show for it, not because of ‘racism’ but because those minorities have failed to put their own communities in order.

          • fedup

            Scratch the surface!

            Which billions of pounds are you referring to?

            “because those minorities have failed to put their own communities in order.”

            So you expect these minorities to manage themselves, and set up macro economic policies in place etc.?

          • fedup

            BTW did anyone notice the lies damn lies statistics?

            Dyscalculia abound the number of white offenders standing at 115,505 however the numbers of black offenders 15,150
            Can anyone do the maths here?

            33 percent of the blacks is 5000 now in the scheme of things it is in fact 4 percent of the recidivism of the white population that in turn is well below the percentage of the black people in this country. However as ever incendiary cock and bull is fed to the population to keep the whipping boys (underclass) in their place. Now thine place you mortals!!

            There again if this nation understood maths we wouldn’t be getting shafted by the power companies, gas companies, insurance companies and banks would we now?

        • N_

          @Spencer – I gave two aspects of what I think would be a proper context. I have not called any facts a disgrace.

          When you say that “Tellingly (young white males) don’t commit a disproportionate number of crimes in relation to their population density”, what is the statement that you believe is told here? You must have one in mind, because you say “tellingly”. It sounds as though you believe that a black person living in the same conditions as a white person is more likely to be a criminal. Is that it?

          • Spencer Eagle

            ‘It sounds as though you believe that a black person living in the same conditions as a white person is more likely to be a criminal. Is that it?’…it certainly looks that way from the data.

        • N_

          @Spencer – So you don’t consider growing up under a higher risk of being murdered to be a disadvantage?

          • Spencer Eagle

            Disadvantaged? of course not. It all depends on who’s creating the disadvantage doesn’t it ? If it’s people of the same ethnicity murdering each other then who’s creating the problem? it’s certainly not a result of racism.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Spencer Eagle February 12, 2020 at 02:04
          And what about the virtually daily slaughter of Blacks and Latinos by trigger-happy murderous cops? And their massively disproportionate rate of imprisonment, mostly for drug offenses, whilst the CIA remains the world’s biggest drug trafficker?
          The massive influx of crack cocaine to the Black Ghettoes in the ’80’s was arranged by the CIA as part of Iran/Contra, and Bill Clinton and Bush Sr. were up to their eyes in it.
          Then of course we have the likes of Buttigieg:
          ‘Documents: Police Used Buttigieg Donors to Get Him to Fire Black Chief’:

          And ‘one law for the cops, a different law for the plebs’:
          ‘NO JAIL for Cop Guilty of Responding to Domestic Violence Call by Raping the Victim’:

          Good ‘ole U.S. of A., Land of the Free, War Crimals par excellence, ripper-up of international treaties, Satan’s Finest.

      • pete

        My goodness, I find myself agreeing with you for once, still I suppose it had to happen one day.

    • SA

      The discussions above concentrate on race and social class. The two are of course interrelated in causing an ethnic group to generally become socially underprivileged. But there are other factors, culture and integration. Some communities can try to maintain their culture in their adopted country and some aspects of this may clash with the laws and norms of that country. Some communities live in big groups near each other and are slow in integration. I think the totality if these factors determine the social outcomes. Also those within ethnic minority populations be become educated and affluent are also more likely to integrate.
      What I am trying to say is that one of the problems is the balance for the host country to accommodating and managing this pull between the need to preserve culture and to integrate. In some cases there is almost a deliberate policy to segregate as I think is the case in the States and of course in places with actively apply apartheid.

      • fedup

        “Some communities live in big groups near each other and are slow in integration”

        Yeah it i normally called down market areas and cheap housing states. Also the various council keep letting the less/least amiable of their housing stock to the “immigrants”.

        This is a deliberate segregation policy but in a surreptitious and latent fashion, a clever mode of racism or maintenance of the class structure.

  • Cubby

    The Britnat Robin Cook when a member of the Britnats Blairs government said that his policy to go war with Iraq in 2003 would lead to more terrorism for decades to come.

    Even a British Nationalist gets it right some times.

    • N_

      You sound as though you’d normally expect a purveyor of one country’s nationalism to get more things right than the purveyor of another country’s nationalism. “I have to admit that on this occasion a Spurs supporter, whose image an Arsenal fan such as myself would usually consider suitable only for printing on t-shirts as the target of a stream of p*ss, did manage to say something worthwhile”.

    • Brianfujisan

      Indeed Cubby… I had a soft spot for Robin C..Last of a Dying Original Labor Breed… It Died to Death with the MSM’ / Israel Lobby Destruction of Corbyn

      We NEED A WAY TO FIGHT THE MSM.. Or Indy is Doomed Too…Cos we KNOW the MSM – BBC Ect – rather than UK policy Stole it from us.

    • Spencer Eagle

      The endless war on terror is perhaps the largest money spinning marketing strategy of all time. The doctrine is all spelled out in PNAC, Project for a New American Century. They actually wrote it all down, the whole idea was to keep militarily prodding Middle Eastern countries to illicit a terrorist response outside their borders, creating an invisible enemy and signing a blank cheque to the military industrial complex to fight the new invisible enemy.

    • SA

      “The Britnat Robin Cook”
      For my own education can you explain to me when this term britnat came into being? For all I know it started the day after the act of union but I am not sure.

      • Cubby


        A very interesting post and question. British Nationalists were certainly around from about 1600 onwards. From the Treaty of Union 1707 their numbers grew ever greater. More recently their numbers have been in decline in percentage terms if not in absolute numbers within the UK.

        Britnat is of course a modern abbreviation of British Nationalist. Hope this helps.

      • glenn_uk

        Which particular sky-spook are we talking about here?

        There are _so_ many of them, and each of their supporters are _so_ insistent that only theirs is the One True Way.

        It’s a good thing indeed that these primitive superstitions, mumbo-jumbo invented by people who didn’t know why it went dark at night, are finally dying out. Another couple of generations and everyone should have rumbled the scam.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Cubby February 12, 2020 at 14:26
          That will not be an adequate excuse come Judgement Day.

          • SA

            And the almighty sits up there somewhere with advanced facial recognition cameras GPS coordinates, and monitors and records all of mankind’s actions. He (because it has always been a he) desists from taking actions that can avert personal and large scale human suffering, because of his belief that we must all be tested for righteousness in order to be rewarded or punished afterwards.
            Give me a modern surveillance state anytime.

          • Paul Barbara

            @ SA February 13, 2020 at 06:21
            I get around that very real problem by assuming we all existed previously as low-level spirits, and sided with Lucifer when he rebelled.
            Because we were low-level, we were given another chance, but it involved God making a deal with the Devil, and for the Devil to have almost all the Aces, to deliver the wealth and power to those who serve him. Being human, I could be wrong…..

          • Cubby

            Paul Barbara

            It was not intended to be an excuse but you may well be correct in your assertion. Unlikely but possible.

      • Tom Welsh

        When are you people going to accept that there is no evidence either for the existence or non-existence of God? I understand that it’s an uncomfortable position to accept, but it’s the only honest conclusion.

        Moreover, I suggest that existence or non-existence of a god or gods should exert no influence on the behaviour of a good person.

        • Magic Robot

          I am reminded of the Law of Thermodynamics, specifically, that concerning entropy. Stated simply, it means that in time, all order must eventually descend to uniformity, or ‘chaos’ to use the old term.

          In other words, it is not possible, by any of our known physical laws of science, for the opposite to happen, ie: order to spontaneously appear from chaos. As an engineer, I would no more expect inanimate elements to magically clump themselves together ( a ‘miracle’ if ever there was one) to form life, than a pile of electronic components to spontaneously form a working computer. The very people, our ‘scientists’ who say ‘miracles do not happen’, then propose the foregoing ‘miracle’ of their own defying the laws of physics, of course, to press the point. Not even Darwin himself agreed with this ridiculous notion.

          Alfred Noyes in his book ‘The Edge of the Abyss’ put it this way (paraphrased from memory):
          “Imagine yourself to be an immortal agnostic. You sit yourself down on a deserted shore on the lifeless planet known as Earth. After many billions of years, you see an ocean liner sailing past the horizon and aeroplanes flying in the sky…”
          How credible does that sound?

          There’s more to this ‘reality’ as we mortals call it, but I don’t know how to explain it. Quantum Physics seems to be showing us the way.

          • Deb O'Nair

            “Quantum Physics seems to be showing us the way.”

            Most quantum theories aimed at explaining the sub-atomic nature of matter require extra dimensions. Particle entanglement is an obvious clue that something is happening behind the scenes; e.g. when two particles are entwined and separated by many hundreds of kilometers an observation on the state of one (which forces the particle to ‘decide’ on it’s nature) immediately resolves the state of the other.

            Experiments have repeatedly shown that this ‘spooky action at a distance’ as Einstein called it is instantaneous (it is quoted as being many many times the speed of light but this is more to do with the limits of atomic clocks). The obvious conclusion is that the entanglement is occurring in another (lower/higher) dimension, which opens up many philosophical questions.

            Knowledge of the nature of reality is just as far from modern science as it was for the Greeks, except the Greeks entertained the notion of the hidden realms whereas modern science does not like to dwell on it. When mathematics reach the limit of explaining the deep nature of the universe one has to go back to philosophy, which is the foundation of both religion and science.

          • Magic Robot

            Deb O’Nair,

            Your points are well taken.

            The great change in modern ‘scientific’ outlook seems to have occurred at the beginning of the 20th century.

            The study of ‘science’ as we now call it, was previously known up to the end of the 19th c. as ‘Natural Philosophy.’ If discoveries at CERN are anything to go by, we may have to revise the name back.

          • mark golding

            Entanglement is not confined to the quantum level. Getting involved with a life force in the real world can change the outcome somewhat; the greater the connection, the greater the transition. In simple terms, the wrong thing can be everted to the right thing.

        • Deb O'Nair

          “When are you people going to accept that there is no evidence either for the existence or non-existence of God?”

          When are you people going to accept that there is no evidence either for the existence or non-existence of dark matter/energy?

          • Dave Lawton

            “When are you people going to accept that there is no evidence either for the existence or non-existence of dark matter/energy?”

            Dark matter is another name for the Aether.Go read Newtons optics.The scientific education level is so poor these days that scientists I have spoken with cannot even explain correctly how energy is transferred from a battery via switch to a light bulb.

    • fedup

      How easily can anyone dismiss sways of humanity with such arrogance is beyond belief!

      The destruction of unions and society is not enough, now is the turn of the minds of people?

  • Rhys Jaggar

    I can say with certainty that the State, the Establishment and anyone thinking they are worthy of ‘position’ in the UK show a generalised sense of emotional cretinism when dealing with those deemed not to ‘fit in’.

    when I was a child I naturally looked up to elders. They took this as a sign that I needed absolute control and guidance, rather than support to explore life and make decisions as a result. Whenever I expressed calm resistance to this, strong emotional outbursts and trashing events took place. It taught me that ‘leaders’ were nothing of the sort: they were narcissistic bullies.

    At 18, I went abroad for a gap year and was treated the way any hard-working, honest young person should be. I made a request to the Conservatoire Mozarteum in Salzburg to be assigned a teacher who would focus on improving my (by professional standards) moribund violin technique and, lo and behold, they did just that, an absolute contrast to the ‘we know what is best for you and don’t you dare say other2wise’ attitudes of the British Establishment. You may be amazed to learn that emotional decency begot emotional openness in a pupil and staggering progress was made.

    Did the UK Establishment say honestly: ‘we have failed with this boy and now Austria has succeeded. We should accept this with good grace and ask Austria to take him under their wing’? Did they heck. They went around saying I had achieved all I was going to achieve in life, as if this was what an 18 year old newly imbued with a sense of hope, grounding and self-belief needed to hear.

    Seven years on and the UK establishment had told the 18-24 year old that he was ‘on his own’ and had to teach himself absolutely everything about practical science from scratch. This was tp be done on a salary of £2756, when those with II/ii degrees were allowed to do PhDs full time on Research Assistant Salaries of £8000 odd, when they were supposed to take five years as they would have regular duties to perform. This taught me quite clearly that discrimination against those with better degrees was par for the course.

    Still harbouring faint attitudes of respect for seniority, I begged those senior to me in life to let me give this wretched PhD up before it killed me. A cold ‘your career will be over irf you do’ was the cretinious response. So I drove myself right to the brink of despair. I rescued the situation going to work for a winter in a Swiss Ski resort for a woman with few qualifications but plenty of humanity and we got on like a house on fire.

    This was of course desperately threatening to the UK Establishment. How could a Cambridge Graduate prefer the travel industry to cancer research? Very easily: three square meals a day, fresh air, human decency from others, not so hard to please me, was it? Precisely those who were kind to me out there were trashed by the Establishment, who then sought to reimpose control by trying to make it out like they wanted me to work in travel. If I had still done, it would be to have escaped their evil tentacles.

    So I made the best of things, applied to the SCGB to do their Reps course, so I could get free ski holidays in return for leading club members around: this induced a virulence of emotional outbursts from the Establishment, as if I were planning to murder Neil Kinnock (why would I need to do that, when Major could beat him at the ballot box lol?)

    Thereafter, the Establishment were just a bunch of emotional cretins.

    Well played, UK!

    • Tom74

      One of the most important lessons in life, which I wish I had learned sooner, is ‘never trust anyone else to know what is in your best interests’, even close family. No one knows your own situation better than you, and often ‘advice’ becomes terribly destructive.

      • remember kronstadt

        How very true Tom74. Just about all the ‘advice’ I’ve seen expressed and experienced and seen has been nothing but transference/projection from the donor.

  • Dungroanin

    Time to get cheering around here peeps

    Being handed our fukus arses in Syria by the Syrian Army and Russian Airforce and having our headchoppers and their Jihadi brides and families on the run to Libya except for thousands of Uighars and other un-resettleables ready to go rogue, as Erdogan mullers himself by officially illegally invading Syria and then supposedly expecting nato intervention when the Syrians resist that invasion.

    Can’t wait to see up-pimpleo put his arse anywhere near a drone strike range! He seems to be avoiding all such areas… Soleimani achieved more US defeat in one months martyrdom than in years of Field Marshalling! That is how god moves for these who believe.

    Will the trigger be pulled by Trump on arrests of top conspirators in Russiagate? It looks like doesn’t need it to win … so our DS shites may get away with it, except for the OPCW conspiracy and wikileaks continued revelations.

    Macron is now just a vampyre husk, living the last days of versaille with his boyfriends having succeeded in reigniting the French revolutionary ardour – he won’t survive Bastille Day and the birth of yet another Republic.
    The colour Yellow will forver induce nausea in him and his.

    That’s how to deal with neoliberal neocon bastards!
    It Bozo is going to get his too.

    Heck we even have a snazzy new name for the virus these folks at WHO have been working day and night i tell ya – heck it comes ready built with sequels AND prequels, 2019nCoV is renamed as COVID-19 by WHO – upyours StarWars ftanchise!

    Oh ok if you prefer doom – there are more serious winds and rains coming – most ex redwallahs are getting some divine retribution of their own.

    • SA

      You have got to sympathise with Erdogan. What does he do with all those terrorists he has with the help of the alliance if imperialists trained and armed in Syria? He certainly doesn’t want them in Turkey and nor do the Chinese, the Russians and others want those Uyghers, the Chechens, the Turkmenistans back , nor indeed do any of the western countries want the terrorists brides and children back. So the only answer is to keep them in Idlib where the can be contained and at the same time continue to occupy the Syrian and Russian governments.
      But of course the SAA and RF have other plans.

      • Pyewacket

        They have quite literally Painted themselves into a corner. Just a shame that nobody afaik is asking why we sre protecting these people, if they’re supposed to be terrorists.

      • Giyane


        Imho Erdogan is just a useful tool for USUKIS/ NATO.
        That probably explains why after his controllers I.e.. Trump tried to depose/ assassinate him, he crawled under the skirts of Moscow and Tehran, and out of the skirts of Mossad./ USUKIS /NATO.

        The most extraordinary feature of the zionist war against the Syrian people is that the coaches and lorries continued to run from Istanbul to Slopi Kurdistan without hindrance. The war was contained. To me that has always meant that it was being run by outsiders and not a civil war. What we don’t know is if NATO gave the coordinates of the concrete bunkers Mme Cinton built for the jihadists in Syria, to dispose of them , to Putin.

        I somehow doubt that USUKIS would have allowed Putin to bomb USUKIS bunkers full of Western proxies unless they built them for that purpose , to wipe out a generation of brainwashed hot-heads.
        In fact , is that not has just happened with Sudesh Amman?

  • Cubby

    Good to hear the Britnat Corbyn finally raising the whole extradition process with the USA and Julian Assange/Harry Dunn at PMQs today. What took him so long?

    • michael norton

      Yes Cubby, I just watched that, the Britnat was Jeremy Corbyn.
      He asked about Anne Sacoolas being a CIA or a former CIA Operative and was that the reason she would not be returning to The United Kingdom to face justice for killing Harry Dunn.
      He also asked about the unfair agreement between U.S.A. and U.K. in returning suspects, Boris Johnson, said on this point Corbyn had a good point.
      Corbyn also asked about freedom of the press and Julian Assange.

      About time the Britnat Corbyn asked these questions, only now that he is a Dead Man Walking.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ michael norton February 12, 2020 at 12:43
        ‘…only now that he is a Dead Man Walking…’
        Au contraire, he is still a hero to many, mainly young, people that were inspired by his vision and integrity.
        They are not all fools, and will have ‘clocked’ the dirty tricks and the dirty tricksters. And their memories are fresh, unlike some old on-the-way-out codgers like many (including myself) on this blog.
        The PTB, external and internal 5th Columnists and MSM, of course, were far from impressed, they were terrified of the thought of a New Broom cleaning out their Augean Stables with their lucrative troughs, and threw everything they could at him.
        Que sera, sera. He played a straight bat, and perhaps should have been a bit more hard on the anti-Semitic smearers.

    • michael norton

      Pity that Ian Blackford acted as a True Britnat by asking horrible questions about Butcher Assad, it was as if he had no grasp of the situation, whatsoever. He shames Scotland.

      • Cubby

        Michael Norton

        If he shames Scotland then he must be a true Britnat as you say.

        Good stuff from the biggest Britnat Brexiteer Johnson referring to Scotland’s representatives as “these people”. That’s what people in Scotland will remember from today’s PMQs and that will add more votes to get rid of the clingy parasites.

      • Vivian O'Blivion

        I can’t get a grip on exactly what point Blackford was trying to make beyond “pity the poor freezing children”. Was he implying that Turkey and the US are in the right by illegally infringing the sovereignty of Syria?
        Other issues raised by the SNP at PMQs.
        Chlorinated chicken, the odious raise in HoL daily allowance (which backfired when Johnson agreed) and something so tedious it has since slipped my mind.
        Why not raise his imperial majesty imposing major infrastructure projects on Scotland without consultation with the Scottish Government? Does Johnson have any concept of how unsuited to HGV traffic roads in Dumfries & Galloway are? Was Johnson one of the influential Tories non-entity Alistair Jack treated to weekends huntin’ and fishin’ on his family estate before his elevation from the back benches? If so, was Johnson helicoptered in?
        These SNP MPs are useless placemen (and women). Glad I spoilt my ballot paper.

        • Cubby

          Vivian o’Blivion

          I think the other question was Truthless Davidson receiving money from Russians and the long awaited Report on Russian interference.

          I agree it was a poor performance from Blackford. The bridge is never going to happen.

          At least the SNP MPs are not Britnats who sell their country out for a few bob.

    • Dungroanin

      He has free licence now and is positioned for the bigger fight.

      The Groaniads Politics Lives Sparrow couldn’t even allow himself a mention of Wikileaks and Assange in their coverage of pmq’s. Starmers responsibility at the CPS and it’s ‘don’t you dare’ memo along with the UN rapporteur report will come to the fore.

      It seems all comments below are deleted and only the blonde haired white boy is allowed.

      Robertsons carefully crafted question citing the Syrian Regime got them confused but Bozo’s answer was off the cuff and got the resonse that will be a basis for the Douma OPCW cover up – i hope.

      Brexit is heading for the City’s great escape under cover of ‘Freeport’s’ it was always the plan A. No need to talk about brexit bollocks now except to focus on that big lie, the Tories get to own it all now.

  • Cubby


    In page 1 of this thread Northern has posted that I am a simple minded racist. This comment is unacceptable and I have asked him to justify the racist comment or retract it. If he does not do so I would ask that you remove this post.

    • Cubby


      Northern has failed to retract his accusation and in fact has repeated it without making any case for anywhere I have made a racist comment.

      I ask again that his posts are removed.

      • IMcK

        If the moderators don’t remove the posts as you request it is probably because there are all Britnats

        • Cubby

          This post is for Northern

          The link between Scottish independence and the article subject matter is oppression and injustice creating disaffected youth. It is there in Scotland and it is there in N. Ireland. It is there in England and Wales.

    • Spencer Eagle

      Don’t worry about being labelled a racist on here, at least you know you are winning the argument when the empty headed lefties play their ever dependable joker.

      • Fedup

        Are you the same Spencer Eagle, or has someone nicked the moniker?

        The only way our minds and thoughts can evolve, is through rigorously challenging our own thoughts/beliefs/prejudices, and testing and retesting these to obtain the veracity or otherwise of our thoughts and beliefs. To start throwing around; “lefty”/”empty headed”/”winning….” these are facile attributes the product of a lazy mind.

        I always thought more of Spencer Eagle, than what I see in these paragraphs.

    • SA

      I would give it a rest, when in a hole, stop digging.
      I must say that your label Britnat for everyone who does not cheer for Scottish independence all the time as you did with Starmer, Cook and Corbyn is out of context as these people were not talking about this topic and had extremely valid arguments about what is being discussed. The use of the term is intended to be derogatory and does tend to indicate that you seem to be a one issue poster. None of this is meant to offend in any way just to say that frequenters of this valuable blog have other interests and Craig does write brilliantly on other topics also.

      • Cubby


        Thank you for your advice.

        I do not understand your comment about digging a hole.

        I do not stop people commenting on other issues. Other people seem keen to stop me posting.

        Is the term Scotnats derogatory as well. Welsh nats derogatory as well. English nats derogatory as well. Irish nats derogatory as well. So should anyone who uses these terms be jumped on by a mob mentality on this site. Has it happened? Or is it just the term Britnat that upsets some people? Care to explain why they are derogatory ?

        Starmer, Corbyn are Britnats and Cook was a Britnat – that’s a fact. Not aware that they ever cheered for Scottish independence never mind “all the time” as you say.

        I do not accept diddies like Northern calling me a racist.

        Pity more people on this site do not turn their attention to criticising the casual use of the term racist.

        • SA

          This from wikepedia:
          “@The first law of holes, or the law of holes, is an adage which states that “if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging”.[1][2] Digging a hole makes it deeper and therefore harder to get back out, which is used as a metaphor that when in an untenable position, it is best to stop carrying on and exacerbating the situation.“

          • SA

            Not really that I think your situation is that untenable it is just that when discussing a topic it is often important to focus on what is being said rather than the characteristics of the person saying it. For example if we are discussing Corbyn’s nationalisation policies, it is irrelevant to say: Corbyn the white Britnat who owns and works an allotment and has a beard and Is vegetarian, would like to privatise the railways. If however the topic was whether a politician supports a Scottish referendum then it may become relevant. In the case of Corbyn it is really not clear whether he does or doesn’t and it is also debatable whether he is a nationalist in the general sense of the word that is conveyed by the expression Britnat, as he often shows solidarity with other nations and has never shown nationalist sympathies.

          • Cubby


            Thanks for that but really that is not what I meant. I understand the use and meaning of the term just not how it applies to me. But I appreciate your efforts in trying to educate me but seriously it was not necessary.

            Cheers you are a star.

  • Brianfujisan

    A very good piece from Jonathan Cook today..On how the Labour party Got itself in such a mess..A mess that is going to be almost impossible to recover from, Thanks to Such things as the Board of Deputies of British Jews (BoD)’s Ten diktats, which all the leadership contestants signed up to.
    it’s quite a long article –

    ‘ .Antisemitism threats will keep destroying Labour ‘

    ” The imminent departure of Jeremy Corbyn as leader will not end the damage that has been done to Labour by such claims. Soon Brexit will become a messy fait accompli. But the shadow of Labour’s so-called “antisemitism problem” will loom over it darkly for the foreseeable future, making sure that Corbyn’s successor dare not incur the same steep price for pursuing a radical political programme. The fear of being smeared as an antisemite will lead, as it was meant to do, to political and economic timidity from whoever takes on the mantle of leader.

    In fact, as we shall examine in detail in a moment, the candidates for the Labour leadership are demonstrating just how cowed they already are. But first let’s recap on how we got to the current situation

    Three lessons
    Lesson one: Some crises can be engineered without the need for evidence. And smears can be much more damaging than facts – at least, when the corporate media builds a consensus around them – because the fightback cannot be won or lost on the battlefield of evidence. Indeed, facts become irrelevant. It is about who has the biggest and best battalion of propagandists. And the simple truth is that the billionaires who own the corporate media can buy the most skilled propagandists and can buy the largest platforms to spread their misinformation.

    Lesson three: The British ruling class does not especially care about antisemitism, or any other form of racism. The establishment uses its power to uphold class privilege, not to promote equality…

    The Board’s 10 diktats
    The Board’s 10 points were effectively their red lines. Overstep the mark on any one of them, they warned the leadership contestants, and we will lend our considerable credibility to a corporate media campaign to smear you and the party as anti-semitic. You will become Corbyn Mark II, and face the same fate…

    Jonathan Cook’s Full Article –

    • Johny Conspiranoid

      The Labour Party will now be run out of the Israeli embassy. They will meet the fate of the LibDems. Their mistake was to try and reason with unreason, i.e. the media. They should not have gone for appeasment because their enemy, the media, was not interested in being appeased.

      • Giyane

        Johnny Conspiranoid

        It looks like Totalit Aryan Cummings will trounce the BBC which along with the sacking of Sajid Javid is making the Tories appear even more bonkers than they were before.

        There are many strategies to deal with the crazy. Appeasement could give them ropetohang themselves,.
        Confrontation will not affect the crazy..

        It will probably be like the pilot who tried to do a flyby ina Hercules, Brexit will land on top of this country and the pilot locked up. I hope it lands on the fractious rebels of the Labour party who smeared Jereny with AS .

        Definitely work in progress. They need to be ready to save the country from Bonkers Boris in about 18 months.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Peter February 12, 2020 at 17:43
      Glad to see Corbyn has somewhat salvaged his reputation re Assange, from his pathetic ‘No comment’ when questioned by an Assange demonstrator in Trafalgar Square.

    • Peter

      Just to further emphasise the point, on this morning’s R4 Today programme in, I think, unprecedented fashion, they completely skipped PMQs in their ‘Yesterday In Parliament’ section.

      Listen, if you can be bothered, from 47:50:

      Along side his question about Julian yesterday, Corbyn was particularly withering in his comparison of some of the current deportees to the Caribbean with Johnson’s own dubious past.

      The BBC’s efforts to suppress all this is reminiscent of their doctoring of the footage of the Election Leaders Debates and of Johnson at the Cenotaph to make him look better.

      Anyone for Stalinism?

      Our media is very sick and that is a very serious problem.

    • OnlyHalfALooney

      It’s not a “union”. I don’t know what you’d call it, but a “union” implies the four countries have an equal say in the governance of the UK, which they do not.

        • Cubby


          Legally the UK is a Union. A Union between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England. The Treaty of Union 1707 guarantees the permanence of Scots law. As part of that law is the Claim of Right – a law that guarantees the sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

          In practical terms it was set up from its forced inception to be an English dictatorship and has continued to this day.

          • IMcK

            The 1707 Treaty of Union unified the Kingdoms of England and Scotland into a single Kingdom. Thus the 2 prior Kingdoms ceased to exist and became constituent parts of the new Kingdom, the Unitary State.
            The sovereignty of Scotland extends to its legal system and devolved powers, but remains subordinate to that of the Unitary State where there is any conflict with the Articles of Union. Thus Article 1 which creates the unified Kingdom ‘for ever after’ cannot be dissolved unilaterally by either England or Scotland.
            The union is generally understood to have been voluntary on the part of both parties. If evidence can be shown to the contrary then Scotland might well have a case for the support of International Law in dissolving the union.

          • Cubby


            I will address your points in turn.

            1. So England doesn’t exist. Best return the 1966 World cup to West Germany then. A United Kingdom is not a SINGLE kingdom. There are still two monarchies. One monarch.

            2. The sovereignty of the Scottish people is protected under Scots law. The claim of right has been accepted on a number of occasions both in court cases and most recently in the H of Commons. You confuse Scotland with the Scottish people.

            3. Sorry but I disagree with your for ever and ever comment. No Treaty can bind any people’s for ever. Just like no Prime Minister can bind a future PM. Other articles in the Treaty have been broken and the Brexit deal re N. Ireland will be breaking another article. It is a bipartite Treaty like any other international treaty and it can be terminated by either of the signatories to the treaty.

            4. Plenty of historical evidence shows it was a forced marriage. English spy’s working to bring about the union treaty- Defoe and Paterson. Bribes and intimidation. The con trick of Darien. English fleet menacingly moored in the Firth of Forth. English soldiers build up on the border. The Alien Act. The Scots people rioting and trying to lynch the members of the Scottish parliament to prevent them signing the Act of Union. The H of Commons speaker is recorded as saying we have catched Scotland and we will hold it fast.
            Remember there was no democracy in those days as we would recognise it today. A bunch of Barons/Earls signed up to it (The Act) in various places of hiding. The Scottish parliament did not meet up for the signing as it was thought too dangerous.

          • IMcK

            Reply to February 14, 2020 at 22:21

            1. England does not exist as a sovereign state, neither does Scotland, irrespective of whether you reference sovereignty of the country or the people. They are constituents of the UK, itself the Unitary State that has sovereignty. The Unitary State must comply with those elements of devolved sovereignty specified in the Articles of Union (principally the Scottish legal system) and can further devolve sovereignty as it sees fit.

            2. Neither the Scottish legal system nor the Claim of Right have authority to dissolve the Unitary State.

            3. The signatures to the Act of Union agreed in Article 1 that the agreement stood for ever. The former Kingdoms were integrated into a single entity that holds the sovereignty (subject to the devolved elements) and do not continue to exist as sovereign entities. It is not ‘a bi-partite Treaty like any other international treaty’ as in the latter the parties continue to exist as was.

            4. I have posted in a previous article on this site the methods by which the Treaty of Union can be dissolved (but I don’t know how to readily find it using this site). In summary – mutual agreement, breach of Articles coupled with significant disadvantage, invalidity of the original Treaty due to coercion, conflict.

            5. The Treaty of Union has stood for over 300 years and if appropriate evidence of breach/invalidity exits, it needs to be laid. I am not aware of any attempts to do so in an effort to dissolve the union.

            6. I would further suggest that notwithstanding the Treaty of Union, the time for which the arrangement has prevailed in relative peace as an egalitarian state (excepting class issues which exist across the unified state), affords a permanency recognisable internationally.

          • Cubby


            Of course you base all this point of view on the unitary states written constitution – oh that’s right after 313 years there isn’t one – funny that. Just not got around to it I suppose. Too busy going round the world murdering looting and stealing resources from others. Or are there other reasons there is no proper written constitution that the citizens or is it subjects or both of the unitary state can refer to and say that is the UK’s constitution.

            When I have more time and can be bothered I may well reply to your specific points raised.

  • Dungroanin

    Some great military end game going on minute by minute, in the borderlands of Syria. Tis over bar the picking up or the bodies. I bet there will be plenty of POW’s spilling beans!

    • Brianfujisan

      Meantime.. Today near Aleppo, a Syrian Father lost three sons serving in the Syrian Army

      Rest in Peace three hero’s

    • SA

      What is truly amazing is how the Turkish army are now openly fighting with what is effectively Al Qaida in Syria and nobody thinks it worth a comment.

      • michael norton

        Erdogan’s family have made a killing out of Islamic State, Erdogan does not want Syria to re-take Idleb Province as many terrorists will tell,
        who funded them, who supplied them, who gave them their instructions
        and what was the intended outcome of the “Civil” War.
        Greater Israel and Greater Turkey.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ michael norton February 13, 2020 at 08:48
          Indeed. Erdogan & Co. have made a packet out of co-operating with the US, Saudi and Gulf States, at tremendous cost to Syria and the Syrian people.

        • michael norton

          One of the problems of Idleb,
          is that civilians, would be allowed to re-intergrate into normal Syrian life,
          but the Turkish Regime, terrorists, will not let them leave, for once innocent Syrian civilians have moved over to the Syrian Government side, that would leave the Turkish forces and the terror forces, who could be obliterated without compunction by the Russian Air Force.

          • Dungroanin

            What? Have you seen what integration has happened on the other front in Afrin?

            You do know they can just walk into Syrian Government areas and the Red Crescent will look after them – if they are Syrians they will be reintegrated.

            But what of the mercenaries and their jihadi brides from everywhere else, recruited, paid and given Turkish passports by the fukus and bastards? Why should Syria have to look after them? They are foreigners. Bring them to the UK with the other WH’s and their families- we fucking put them there.

      • David

        Sky News (UK) had a propaganda puff-piece yesterday evening, the White Helmets “saving Syria’s children”, to coin a phrase. It all looked highly unlikely, but no obvious psyops nudges – that made sense, anyway.

        The Independent article is paywalled, for me

        • Republic of Wales

          Suffice it to say that the commenters overwhelmingly saw through the premise of the article, rejecting the establishment line of good guys against the “regime”. When I see the word “regime”, I metaphorically reach for my gun.

          • N_

            @Republic of Wales – The UK is a regime, existing in the country Britain. It’s a monarchist regime. Those who are involved in its administration or who otherwise support its existence do NOT like that fact being noticed. They like to pretend it’s as natural as the hills and the lakes, just as they bend over backwards to use terminology to communicate that certain foreign regimes not subservient to the West are not natural like that, and could be replaced within the given countries. (“Assad regime” etc.; or a few years ago when Boris Berezovsky was still alive they spoke – ludicrously – of possible “regime change” in Russia.)

            When idiots keep saying “UK” without knowing what they’re saying, I like to ask in a puzzled voice, “Why do you keep mentioning the monarchy?”

            Even f***ing weather reporters say things like the rain is appearing over “the west of the UK” now.

        • Republic of Wales

          Going off topic for a moment.
          I frequent other discussion sites such as ICH, Off-Guardian. BTL commenters in such sites (though not here, that I have noticed) never miss a chance to misrepresent the struggle of Hongkongers to preserve what little freedoms the British Empire left them, or, perish the thought, improve on them, even when there is no immediate relevance to the topic under discussion. I point out that their recent local elections showed the overwhelming support given to pro-democracy candidates, but I get howled down with no supporting contributions at all. I point out that for once, just because the CIA undoubtedly is trying to interfere, doesn’t mean that the cause is not just. That while China has laws it does not have rule of law. It seems that the sites are read in the main by simple-minded believers that USA is evil, China good, the protesters are terrorists, and no more discussion is welcome. Are they all Beijing shills?
          So what is the consensus here? Democracy generally an aspiration, except where China is concerned?

          • Anthony

            I suspect a lot of that is informed by skepticism of western state and corporate MSM posing as passionate believers in democracy.

            Look at what they do to any political candidate in the west who advocates a turn away from rule for the rich. Or at the way they simply ignore the massive protests against rule for the rich just across the channel. Or how quickly they lost interest in the urgent regime change for democracy in Libya. The list is endless.

            One would have to be extremely charitable or incredibly naive to believe our media genuinely cares about advancing democratic rights anywhere.

          • David

            the middle kingdom is a complicated place, certainly subject to all manners of externally funded regime-change operations [in recent years China briefly passed the USA in one particular GDP measure, in purchasing power parity terms]

            A nearby state, with manifest democracy – not external rent-a-crowds, has recently imprisoned MORE their recently imprisoned top spook (member of the matrix of group-think western intelligence agency friends & tier-partners)


            Spy Chief Sentenced to 7 Yrs in Prison over Embezzlement, Other Charges
            South Korea’s former intelligence chief NIS Director Won Sei-hoon has been sentenced to seven years behind bars over the misappropriation of the National Intelligence Service’s funds and other charges.

            These charges included running a 77th Brigade media-manipulation operation in South Korea

            When you look at the former US pardners of NIS Director Won Sei-hoon, you’ll find that today – their biggest current worries are “hacktivists, leaktivists and those with no formal ties to foreign intelligence services.” also not forgetting “threat actors” and other systems that
            “also can be used to sway public opinion”

            presumably, that position of swaying public opinion is already taken in UKUSA….

            reading the recent output of the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence who published a report on Monday by the National Counterintelligence and Security Center – it’s quite obvious that they have never read the March 22nd 2019 “Muller Report” on influence campaigns aimed at undermining democracy – tho’ I presume they have and are simply ignoring it, and pointing at China now.

            Does that answer your question on HK?, nice place – could do with some peace and democracy!

          • N_

            @David – “These charges included running a 77th Brigade media-manipulation operation in South Korea”. Have you got a source for that? Was he literally charged with working for the British army’s information warfare brigade?

          • David

            제 77여 단식 작전, 소스는 구글 원세훈

            haven’t you been paying attention to those democratic nations that arrest their top spook, and why? admittedly it’s all been rather underreported in some hemispheres!

            As I recall, Won Sei-hoon wasn’t directly using •our glorious 77th keyboard-warriors•, but his equivalent team use/misuse was fundamental in his arrest and imprisonment, and as you’ll recall, that of the South Korean Boris too, oops. (Her name probably wasn’t Boris, you can look her up in PRISM)

  • N_

    Dominic Cummings has sacked Sajid Javid, a month before the budget.

    From the Daily Mirror: ” ‘The Prime Minister said he had to fire all his special advisers and replace them with Number 10 special advisers to make it one team,’ a source said. ‘The Chancellor said no self-respecting minister would accept those terms.’ ”

    Meanwhile in Scotland, Derek Mackay was removed from office just before the devolved authority’s budget too.

    It looks like somebody is taking control of the state’s money.

    PS A British prime minister can be impeached. The process is similar to the one in the US: the lower house (Commons) prosecutes him before the upper house (Lords). Some say the power is obsolete but it’s certainly still extant. Some MPs considered it as a possibility against Johnson when he got the monarch to prorogue Parliament last year.

    • N_

      My guess is that Rees-Mogg will take over as Chancellor of the Exchequer (a post he has clearly been aiming at for a long time), move into some other powerful “economic” position (business tsar, that kind of thing), or else he will be out on his ear’ole. If he is booted out entirely, it’s a fantastic day for the Duke of Cummings.

      • N_

        Well…the new Chancellor is Rishi Sunak.

        1) He is an Old Wykehamist, i.e. he went to Winchester College – and not only that but he was head boy there!

        2) He was US-educated – a Fulbright scholar (the Fulbright system being a major tool by which the US government and the CIA in particular recruits academics around the world)

        3) He previously worked at Goldman Sachs

        4) He previously worked at two hedge funds, including one called Theleme Partners which he appears to have co-founded.

        Thel-WHAT? Is there a Crowleyite connection? LOL! Its HQ is in Mayfair near the CIA’s London station and the US embassy

        (Rather than the above four facts, the MSM will probably concentrate on the far less interesting fact that he studied PPE at Oxford.)

        • N_

          5) Rishi Sunak is the son-in-law of Indian billionaire Narayana Murthy, a big guy in “outsourcing” to the subcontinent.

          Maybe it’s Murthy’s fault that when in Britain you want your phone line fixed you often have to speak for about 20 minutes to a low-paid worker in India who will probably be sacked if they spend more than 5 seconds saying anything to you that’s not written on their screen in front of them.

          Given that the US, the EU and China are all lining up to kick Britain up the a*rse in trade negotiations, an economic understanding between (some of the elite families in) Britain and (some of the elite families) in India could prove a goer.

          • Antonym

            Narayana Murthy co-founded and led Infosys, India’s no.2 IT company. They got big on custom software development in the West, no low level stuff like call centers.

    • Republicofscotland

      Yeah Javid is no more as Johnson takes a page out of Trumps book, by keeping those he trusts such as Cummings and girlfriend close at hand.

      Johnson, Cummings and Johnsons girlfriend are now calling the shots.

      • nevermind

        Marvelous, soon Johnson will be fired by Cummings to ensure that decisions for the people are made by the people….
        And most important, this resignation will postpone the budget for a little longer as Rishi needs to consult with the other mushrooms on how best to proceed, how best to arrange the finances to enable the hedgefund bosses and off shorers to make some more money from taxpayers.
        and during this extension, Johnson can wield and spend as he dreams it up. HS2, not unlike the argument that denounced Corbyns manifesto pledges, will ruin the economy, with more taxes ending up in bankers coffers and us waiting for Godot.
        Talk about spunking it up the wall.

      • Rod

        Mr Johnson is a fraud who wishes to provide the impression to the nation that he is highly educated. He was certainly expensively educated and that’s about his limit. There is something clinically wrong about him and President Trump and it is little wonder they gravitated toward each other. President Trump had his man Bannon and Mr Johnson is currently employing Cummings. I don’t believe Mr Johnson, like President Trump, trusts anyone – not even his current mistress. If, as you suggest, his latest woman is having a hand in calling the shots now and the day dawns when irreconcilable differences arise between her and Cummings, can anyone see Mr Johnson throwing Cummings under the bus in favour of his co-habitant in number 10 ?

        If I was her, I’d watch my back.

        • Cubby


          A very wise post. Johnson of course was granted a training seminar by Bannon in all matters Trumpian when he visited London.

          The first part went well when Johnson in the Dec GE got people to vote for him (just like Trump did ) who on face value should never consider voting for him.

    • Dave Lawton

      Sajid Javid was sacked because was advised by Treasury Common Purpose EU brainwashed puppets who had taken part in the Matrix weekend at £4000 a shot.More purges on the way.BBC? The NHS which was infiltrated by the EU created Common Purpose and even set up their own management system.

      • Giyane

        Dave Lawton

        My alarm bells on Javid’s sacking are telling me that funding for the NHS is going to start coming from the US.. the Chancellir was in the way.
        Johnson will soon find out who his friends are when he gets the blame for dismantling the NHS. Budge over David, ,I want to drive now. Ck ck . Gee up Tonto..

        • OnlyHalfALooney

          Johnson and his 1% cronies might very well plunder the treasury and NHS. Then Johnson will retire to a nice little Caribbean Island.

          I realise Javid is a Tory, but I felt sorry for him seeing him almost in tears. He is the son of bus driver. (I don’t know why he became a Tory.) He studied at the University of Exeter. His replacement is the son of a GP, was the head boy at Winchester College and then studied at Oxford. Sunak married a billionaire’s daughter. I guess that says it all. He should have got the message when he was blatantly not welcome at the Trump dinner.

  • N_

    From the Express: “Sajid Javid’s year-long war with Dominic Cummings exposed: ‘Like Israel vs Palestine!'”

    “A Whitehall official also told the publication that the divide had extended to the staffers of Downing Street and the Treasury. The insider said: ‘It’s become like the Israel-Palestine crisis: no one can pin down exactly when it started but it’s descended into retaliation after retaliation.’ ”

    Maybe that official, or insider, should look up the word “Nakba”. And what “crisis” does he mean? Silly sod!

    Still, that stupid quote aside, there may or may not be something hinted at the Israel-Palestine reference. The other approach would be to assume that almost nothing in the Daily Express is ever worth paying attention to, which may perhaps be an apt observation here.

    • Fedup

      Howay! You are not considering reading that rag, are you? I always have a laugh at their hysterical headlines and that is just about that!

  • michael norton

    The most important take from Prime ministers Question time
    was off-the-leash Jeremy Corbyn.
    Very important that he asked a couple of questions about Anne Sacoolas, is she am operative of the CIA.
    Next question was she an Operative of the CIA.

    Probably this directness was unexpected.
    But the question is now forever in the public domain
    and for that we was thank Jeremy Corbyn.

  • Vivian O'Blivion

    The stars are aligned, the perfect opportunity for an elected dictatorship.
    A HoC majority of 50. The party purged of troublesome Europhiles (replaced by political neophytes eager to toe the line for a first opportunity of advancement). The last two UK polls put the Tories at 49% and 47% (an average for E & W corrected pro rata of 50%). The BBC cowering under threats of financial decimation. The leading riders in the Labour Leader and Deputy Leadership contest falling over themselves to pander to bearded blokes who think they’re lesbians.
    Johnson could be in position for decades.

    • michael norton

      I watched the Labour Front Riders on TV outdoing each other to enrich their Transexual Images and their Pro-Israel Images,
      they will be getting rid of Labour Women Members who do not sign the pledge to fawn over transexuals.
      They are finished, they are no-longer based in reality.
      The LibDem Lot recently gave a perfect example of what happens to a party that despises the voters normality.
      Why can’t Labour learn?
      How hard can it be to offer what normal, ordinary voters want, why do they think the Tories won by a landslide, it is not rocket science.

      • OnlyHalfALooney

        “why do they think the Tories won by a landslide”

        The Tories didn’t offer what “normal, ordinary voters want” either.

        I think the Tories would have won a narrow majority anyway. The anti-Corbyn propaganda had been turned up to deafening levels including from within his own party. But I think there must have been some rigging involved in the landslide. How can the turnout figures be accurate when there were voters queing around the block? And the UK’s postal vote system is not safe at all.

        Mainly I think the problem is that the election was about Brext. I can’t stand that war criminal, Tony Blair, but he was right on this issue. The LibDems and Labour defectors f*cked up by totally misjudging their electoral potential and so facilitated Johnson’s power grab.

        Sadly, Corbyn was, in fact, a move away from Tory-lite neoliberal New Labour politics which have decimated similar parties all over Europe. In the Netherlands, the Labour party has been recovering somewhat after rediscovering the working class. For example, the party is now completely against CETA, while it was a Dutch Labour party minister who was involved in negotiating the agreement.

        All I can say is that English politics seem to be completely f*cked.

        • michael norton

          Pound now at four year high.
          It has been going up, since Boris got in to power.
          Quote ONLYHALF A LOONEY
          “The Tories didn’t offer what normal, ordinary voters want either.”

          Maybe not but by winning by a landslide they must have seemed to have the most normal, ordinary working person
          lend them their votes,
          otherwise, they would not now be the government.

          • OnlyHalfALooney

            The pound is up because investors expect Johnson’s government to have to start borrowing large amounts of money to fund all his promises. This will lead to interest rates rising in the UK and demand for sterling. However, the higher interest rates will hit house buyers and companies needing to borrow money to expand and cause inflation.

      • Tom74

        It isn’t a case of a Labour ‘learning’. The system is rigged for the Tories in every way, and Labour’s role is a) to lose and b) to make people blame Labour for not winning (as opposed to questioning the obvious suspect electoral practices, media propaganda, MI5 meddling etc)
        Nothing will change until there is some kind of (peaceful, hopefully) revolution. Democracy in this country is a sham.

        • Giyane

          Radio 4 came up to see my MP Liam Byrne this week and had a little gloat about him being an opponent of Jeremy Corbyn.

          N.B. Opponents of Corbyn did not get their ballot boxes stuffs , because they support zionist war and All Tory policies.

          PS. I see no difference between opposing Corbyn by calling him a BritNat and opposing him for not being a Tory.

          When Cubby has failed in his life’s mission of Scottish Independence, maybe he will spare a thought for Corbyn’s life’s work as a socialist.

          What nasty , narrow, rude people you Scottish obsessives turned out to be. I know I know it’s your culture , Flyting and straight talking.
          Politeness costs nothing , you @#$%^& !.
          Woad painted savages from the North.

    • michael norton

      Sue-Ellen Cassiana “Suella” Braverman
      chaired the European Research Group from 19 June 2017 to 9 January 2018.
      So she is a super Brexiteer.
      She has been rewarded with a job in the reshuffle.
      Attorney General

      So, Vivian is correct, all the wets are out, ultras only need apply.

      • Dungroanin

        Fucking Braverman! Oh oh Assanges chances just went down the black hole – any decent experienced lawyer wouldn’t have touched the political deportation. They have their reputation and ‘fearless’ impartiality to protect.

        I hope the Supreme Court and Law Lords finally put on their iron shirts and see this satanic coiterie off. Or else WE ARE DOOMED! Tear up the Magna Carta.

  • Roger Wise

    The state of the art bombs, dropped from the state of the art aircraft, with the precision to slaughter men, women, children, pregnant women, domestic animals, livestock, and the rats in the sewer, while completely destroying the infrastructure, so a few can control the flow of the oil. The hero’s return – awarded metal and cloth.

    A boy lashes out and becomes the most hated person in the country for a few hours.

    The ease that the few control the many.

  • Peter

    Was it incompetence, planned or a tragedy or pattern?

    “Entirely predictable was the fact that the suspect named as Sudesh Amman (pictured above) was a known ‘terrorist’ – having been previously arrested, tried, and imprisoned by UK criminal justice system for terror-related offenses, only to be inexplicably released early…
    Also predictable was the fact that this known ‘terrorist’ would once again menace the public – being only the most recent example in a string of headline-grabbing terror attacks carried out by similar suspects similarly known to police and intelligence organizations, but otherwise inexplicably allowed to menace the public…..
    The latest incident in London was so entirely preventable that it is difficult to describe it as anything less than deliberate.

    It is only a matter of time before politicians begin spinning and exploiting the incident – using it to shape policy both foreign and domestic – allowing analysts to better understand why such an entirely preventable act of violence was allowed to unfold nonetheless……

    The problem is instead what appears to be a deliberate effort to keep these terrorists roaming freely among society. Free to join Western-backed mercenary forces abroad to fight in the West’s various proxy wars, and free to commit heinous acts of terror at home, both serving the singular agenda of expanding Western hegemony abroad while preserving the primacy of select special interests at home through divide and conquer politics and the use of fear as a political weapon.”

    • OnlyHalfALooney

      “inexplicably released early”

      He was being followed/shepherded by police/intelligence. My suspicion is that there was some sort of (supposed) cooperation going on between Amman and security services. In other words, Amman’s release was entirely explicable.

      Looking at the surveillance videos running up to the shooting, it looks to me as if some sort of meeting was supposed to take place or, In any case, some sort of “happening”. The happening may gone off track when Amman stabbed a woman. This may have taken the security team by surprise. The happening may even been the stabbing itself. In which case the team were ready to kill him to prevent any disclosures. I think the former is more likely but who knows? Nobody is going to investigate. The msm narrative ignores all the questons involved and makes it about “early release” and justifies the summary killing by claiming he wore a “fake suicide vest”.

      Whatever happened, the events and surveillance videos do not fit the MSM narrative.

  • michael norton

    It is a little peculiar, that in the recent Islamic State stabbings in England, we have been expected to understand that both perps wore fake suicide vests.
    Did they obtain them from the same source?
    Did they, whilst under “Surveillance” each manufacture their own?

    Why haven’t the police brought these suicide vests before the news cameras, for all of us to make our own minds up?
    Very bizarre.

    Will the next Islamic State Operative also wear a fake suicide vest?

    • OnlyHalfALooney

      Amman had to “steal a knife from a shop” but he was “wearing a fake suicide vest”.

      Just let that sink in…

  • Dave

    Clearly another MI5 flash mob, obviously a fake event, deliberately so, only an enemy of the state would notice.

    • michael norton

      The geezer in Fishmongers, we were never told, did he wear the vest as he entered Fishmongers or did he carry it in a bag or was it waiting for him in Fishmongers?

  • michael norton

    Khan Holding two kitchen knives taped to his wrists, began stabbing people inside the building.

    Very hard, I should imagine, whilst wearing a suicide vest to then tape knives to each hand.
    Maybe he had a helper in Fishmongers, who brought the suicide vest and knives in, then helped Khan get ready?

  • Dave

    It appears part of a ‘tidying up exercise’ due to Trumps plans to withdraw from Syria. That is what to do with the remnants of the ISIS franchise now they’re no longer needed without alerting the public to the fact they were ‘our side’ all along.

    Hence the ‘Streatham attack’ was staged to give the government an ‘excuse’ to retrospectively extend sentences to stop their victims, informants and recruits from being released from jail and telling their story, the truth.

    The London Bridge attack was to influence the general election, but again was so far fetched clearly those staging these events must be seeking a clear conscience by making the drama so far-fetched and obvious, they can’t really be blamed if people believe it to be true.

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