Sy Hersh and The Way We Live Now 791

It is a clear indicator of the disappearance of freedom from our so-called western democracies, that Sy Hersh, arguably the greatest living journalist, cannot get this monumental revelation on the front of the Washington Post or New York Times, but has to self-publish on the net.

Hersh tells the story of the US destruction of the Nordstream pipelines in forensic detail, giving dates, times, method and military units involved. He also outlines the importance of the Norwegian armed forces working alongside the US Navy in the operation.

One point Sy does not much stress, but it is worth saying more about, is that Norway and the USA are of course the two countries who have benefitted financially, to an enormous degree, from blowing up the pipeline.

Both not only have gained huge export surpluses from the jump in gas prices, but Norway has directly replaced Russian gas to the tune of some $40 billion per year. From 2023 the United States will appear in that list in second place behind Norway, following the opening in the last two months of two new Liquefied Natural Gas terminals in Germany, built to replace Russian gas with US and Qatari supplies.

So Russia lost out massively financially from the destruction of Nordstream and who benefited? The USA and Norway, the two countries who blew up the pipeline.

But of course, this war is nothing to do with money or hydrocarbons and is all about freedom and democracy…

To return to Hersh’s account, particularly interesting are the series of decisions taken to avoid classification of the operation in various ways which would require it to be reported to Congress. In terms of United States history, this ought to be a big deal.

For the Executive to commit what is an act of war without the approval of the Legislature is fundamentally unconstitutional. But that is one of those quaint remnants of democracy that the neo-liberal elite consensus can quietly sidestep nowadays.

Hersh sets out the well known background in compelling detail,  including the fact that, from Biden down, the Americans effectively announced what they were going to do, openly.

But what most worries me about the entire story is the unanimous complicity of the mainstream media in ignoring the completely obvious.

The media line, parroted here relentlessly by the BBC and corporate media, was  that the Russians had probably themselves blown up the pipeline on which they had expended such great resources and three decades of intense diplomatic activity, and which was to be the key to Russia’s single most valuable source of income for the next 40 years.

This was always quite literally incredible. You would have to be deranged to believe it.

It actually taught me not just that we truly are in the realm of totalitarianism and the Big Lie, but I learnt something very important about how the Big Lie works.

The secret is not that people genuinely believe an outrageous claim. The secret is that people do genuinely believe that they are in a battle of good against evil, and it is necessary to accept the narrative being promoted, in the interests of fighting evil.

Don’t question, just follow. If you do question, you are promoting evil.

I am sure that is how it works.

State and corporate stenographer journalists are actually intelligent individuals. If they thought about it, they would realise that the narrative that Russia blew up its own pipeline is obvious nonsense.

But they are convinced it is morally wrong to think about it.

Which is why none of them challenged the equally mad claims that Russia was repeatedly shelling its own forces occupying the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power station, and indeed is why none of them challenged the utterly risible official version of the Skripal story.

I previously told the anecdote from when I worked in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and asked a good friend if he really believed the misinformatioin on Iraqi WMD with which he was involved.

He replied by referring to the video game Championship Manager (now renamed Football Manager), which we used to play together. He said when he was in the game, it was immersive, he was manager of Liverpool, and it fully absorbed him.

Similarly, when he walked through the FCO gates, the world of the intelligence reports was immersive and Iraq did have these WMDs inside that world. He worked in the “reality” of the FCO. Once he left in the evening, he lived in a different reality, the world of us in the pub.

I do know of one or two journalists bright enough to detach their professional output from what they really think, in a similar way. (I once had a conversation along these lines with Jeremy Bowen in Tashkent.)

Most however don’t think like this. They simply think that all right thinking people support the historic struggle against the evil Russians, so it must be right to read out the propaganda without thinking too much about it.

Those of us critical of the aggressive promotion of war in Europe, are not only barred from all mainstream media and confined to corners of the internet, and even then heavily suppressed on social media (which is why Sy Hersh’s article does not have the scores of millions of readers it merits).

We can’t even obtain freedom of assembly.

Two established left wing venues have cancelled the No 2 Nato meeting I am addressing in London on 25 February. Conway Hall’s reasons for cancellation included threats to funding and fears for the safety of staff.

We are now reduced to a guerrilla meeting, the Central London venue for which will not be announced until the evening before.

Is this really a democracy, where it is not possible for dissidents to hold a public meeting without secrecy, subterfuge and hiding from supporters of the state?

I do urge you to come along on the day, whatever your views on the subject, to support the right to freedom of speech.

I have a different view from perhaps all of the other speakers, on the legitimacy of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which I oppose.

But I also oppose NATO expansion which is an underlying cause of the war, and indeed oppose the existence of NATO itself.

NATO is a war machine which sucks resources from working people to benefit the military industrial complex, and unleashes devastating destruction on developing states which do not make their natural resources available to western billionaire elites.

It is also a fundamental node of the propaganda apparatus which manipulates and controls our society, particularly as counter narrative and dissident thought is now rigorously and systematically excluded.

There is no longer an Overton window of permitted debate. It has narrowed and should be renamed the Overton letterbox.

One of those small difficult ones right down at the bottom of the door.  With a very fierce spring, and snarling dogs guarding it.


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791 thoughts on “Sy Hersh and The Way We Live Now

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    • U Watt

      Feb 7th last year when Biden told a White House press conference he would do it Scholz was standing right next to him. They had met just beforehand in the Oval Office. Seems likely the German Chancellor approved the blowing up of critical German infrastructure in order to profit US LNG corporations and fk over his own economy and people. It’s difficult to imagine Merkel approving such a thing. In fact it is difficult to imagine any leader of any nation in history approving it. One of the most surreal and craven geopolitical acts there has ever been.

      • AG

        U Watt

        I wasn´t there. I doubt Scholz would willingly do that.
        But it is certainly a very interesting question what happened afterwards.

        I guess their minions just ushered Biden and Scholz to the next meeting to wash over this “slip” by Biden.

        I only know from a WaPo piece by David Ignatius who is Blinken´s puppy that Merkel and Biden had agreed in the summer of 2021 to stop NS project in case of a Russian attack.

        I suggest to all Britons: Stop idealizing Angela Merkel, just because her first name is akin to a Stones song.

        • U Watt

          What sort of country is it when over a year on from that press conference and 5 months after the deed was done Scholz has still not been questioned as to whether he gave Biden the nod in that meeting? What would it take to seed a doubt in your own mind about Scholz and to want to see him questioned as to why he didn’t challenge Biden’s stated intentions at the time or since? Why is Seymour Hersh considered the demon figure in this great national humiliation for Germany and not Scholz?

          • U Watt

            No offence AG, but these are the foremost questions a German obsessed with the Nord Stream attack should have started asking. You seem very reluctant to engage with them. Wonder why.

          • AG

            no offence taken.

            I have no people on the inside.
            Barely anyone has.
            Certainly not the reporters of the capital who claim they did.

            It is most likely a mixture of careerism and cowardice, e.g. from the side of Mrs. Baerbock, and concern and lack of vision and courage from the side of Scholz, and upright corruption and complete lack of moral by Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, no minister but chairing the Committee for National Security questions and by now known to everyone in the country to be lobbyist for German tank manufacturer residing at her constituency Düsseldorf – which, very British in fact – bothers no one.

            THAT is an offence.

            And as I said earlier: the integrity of EU is possibly at stake here, re: Poland and those three tiny anti-Communist states whose names I constantly am mixing up.

            Czechs are so-so and Romania – no idea. I think they don´t know themselves.

            But in essence I would just tell them to fuck off. Create your own little Hanse Union. Just like in the Middle Ages.

            The core EU with Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Austria etc. (yes Netherlands are another problem and they got a lot of people for being so tiny – don´t get me wrong I have enough Dutch friends) should start with Brazil, India, Russia, Iran and China do real business. And stop pestering Africa.

            Give me executive powers for a decade and I will get it done. On the way probably being taken out by some agent after my first week in office. But so be it. 😉

  • AG

    A question to all:

    I am looking for a short and proper overview of German political parties in the English language.

    It´s for Seymour Hersh or one of his aides.

    I wrote to Substack pointing out a minor mistake Hersh made on his Democracy Now interview yesterday, regarding the German Greens.
    He said Scholz is a Green and hailed them

    I pointed out to him the mistake.

    He responded and asked for an overview of the German parties.

    I would like to suggest something to him that is trustworthy with credentials to it he doesnt have to double-check, since I could be anyone writing emails. But not long or complicated. So, no Oxford study.

    Since he has no time (apparently his phone is incessantly ringing) and probably doesn´t speak German – maybe someone here has a suggestion.


      • AG


        I have the feeling he has too much to do.

        I´ll see.

        But, er, I am not a contact of his. I wrote to him first time in my life via Substack.

        So we have no special relationship.

        I´ll see if I get any response to my inquires on the party stuff via German platforms in the first place.
        And then how my email will look like.

        And I don´t want to appear overbearing just because he took his time to answer.
        (He got 1200 mails day #1 after the story came out and he is 85.)

        You get my point.

        • useless eater

          AG, a friend of mine made a film called “Green Avalanche” back in the 2000’s, concerning the profileration of skunk cannabis in Europe, it was a no-budget affair. When trying to get “talking heads” to appear in the film and say something relevant he began ringing round and asking people. He rang Noam Chomsky’s office at MIT. He was stunned when Chomsky answered the phone and immeadiately offered him an interview when he came to Britain in a few weeks. The professor was as good as his word. In the film we see Chomsky talking about the propaganda constructs of drugs, immigration and crime and how these are melded into instruments of political control, at different times and places in recent history. He reported Chomsky didn’t appear to be a 12 foot interdimensional lizard nor a satanic pdf file but a genuine nice guy. When I thought about I it realised, what self-respecting satanic pdf file or 12 foot interdimensional lizard answers their own office phone?

          • AG

            useless eater

            funny you mention NC.

            I wrote to him last year. I don´t who is in charge now, his great-grand-daughter, or is grand-daughter or his daughter or his wife?

            Some lady called Chomsky. I got no answer. This was the first time.
            In the 30 years before that I wrote to him a couple of times usually inquring about certain books or studies he had been quoting. I always got an answer. Until now.

            I figure it does have to do with age. I hope he hits the 100 because he has been around so long, and is one the few people who were really formative for my personal life.

            “Green Avalanche” rings a bell. But it has been a few years now, right?

          • useless eater

            Yes maybe 2002- 2003. Obviously he looked a lot younger but his spiel, as usual back then, was powerful – sticks in my mind. His handlers didnt want him to do the interview, because of the subject matter of the film but he insisted. It takes place in the back of a crowded people carrier on its way to Manchester airport but is no less absorbing for the unusual location.
            As for now, who can say? He didnt cover himself in glory during the media event known as “covid” but then again, who did?

        • Tatyana

          Thank you, AG. I understand.

          Jack, you asked why Russian PR went this bad? Here the answer, just above. Those who could be heard, who could be noticed – they are too busy. Also, ordinary people, they are too busy with their own lifes.
          That was one good Western plan to ban Russian media, to ban the Russians from all public events, like art, or sports. Even Etsy banned Russian and Belorussian handmakers. Facebook. Instagram, Twitter unavailable.
          I feel like the West conspired to kill us and they don’t want the world to hear us crying. Only Mr.Murray let me speak.
          We are doomed. I have already gotten used to this idea a little and I try to enjoy at least something, in the end.
          Have you seen 2012 film? I feel like Charlie Frost, reporting in the last few hours of our existence.

          • AG


            this is not a movie.

            And this is not 2012.

            So please don´t let yourself down.

            Wars are all over the place. But people don´t give up.
            Just because the West is highlighting the Russia issue it don´t mean it´s actually “true” to the real picture.

            Africa, Asia, South America, they all have a different view of Russia.
            And actually, millions of German do as well. I can assure you of that.

            The empire wants to drain you off your hope. But it doesn´t work like that any more.

            You see it with Hersh. Even people who followed orders they felt it´s wrong and Hersh is right, it does come back to you. That´s why they spoke to him.

            Not everyone is as mind-fucked as Victoria Nuland. She really must have some issues with her entire Kagan mafia.

            But you find these people everywhere.

            Pigeon English mentioned Chomsky.

            During his interview on Vietnam Chomsky 2 weeks ago said that the situation was worse during those years in terms of publishing certain stories. The newspaper staff etc. Hersh said the same thing.

            It´s true that control is better now. They can shut you out. As you say. But the system itself is more fragile. That´s why they shut out you first place. They are afraid.

            Think of how fast the Twitter story broke even though NSA, FBI and CIA were involved.
            I dont want to idealize it. But if we can learn something from these old “war horses” (think Angela Davies with a great speech last year) – it has always been a fight.

            I don´t know if you got people you can meet in person. But that´s important I think.
            Flesh and blood.

      • AG

        Mrs. Ponomarenko was sentenced to 6 years for reporting that Russia bombed the Mariupol theatre.

        Apart from no one should be putting people into prison for saying anything like this – was it the Russians?
        Last I heard it was most likely Ukrainians. Or do I mix things up?

        One can´t hardly keep track with what was going on and all sides claiming contradictory views.

    • Pigeon English

      I don’t want be rude but I expect YOU to tell US about German parties!

      Since you don’t mind writing/commenting and are well informed! I would like to ask you something off topic.

      That “Putsch” in Germany, was it just couple of nutters/crazy’s or something more? Relatively (if I remember well) some of “high ranking” people were part of it but not a big deal. NS2 and S Hersh is not big story either.

      I hope you get my point!

      It just crossed my mind as a foreigner that “we Brits” don’t follow you. It’s USA USA

      • AG

        Pigeon English

        True, it sounds strange me asking you.

        But since Hersh is English-speaking I thought with this considerable tradition of British scholarship probing into all kinds of crazy stuff and a lot going on below the MSM line in Britain, and the many knowing folks on this site, you never know. Maybe there is a good hint.

        I am not so good with this Putsch thing. But putting it into inverted comma as you did, is adequate.

        -2 weeks before police did it´s showdown arrest, politicians and well connected media like DER SPIEGEL were already informed.
        Now, if you think someone is really that dangerous you don’t give out info of that kind. So it had the quality of a stage play.

        As well as the fact that media was already around when it took place… actually it was all pretty embarrassing.
        And I am experienced enough to reckon these news are worthy of my attention when they first pop up.

        This was also pointed out by a few commentators. Even tough most of them sang the song of coup d´etat.

        Most revealing: The story disappeared pretty fast. Compared to its alleged significance (compare it to Jan. 6th USA!)

        This one female judge involved, I am not informed how that went – some said she should be removed from her post, which is a pretty big deal with a judge. Then I heard there was hardly an illegal activity you could stick onto her. Status quo I don’t know.

        I can look up coming days. Maybe there is something interesting for you. But I did not follow it since Ukraine takes all my energy in this area.

      • Pigeon English

        Sorry but we have ADHD.
        TWO or THREE parties is more than enough! Our journalist can hardly follow
        UK and USA (politics) and you expect them to explain all those crazy parties in all those crazy countries!

    • Gene Frenkle

      Nuland declared NS2 “dead” in March 2022 and Hersh failed to include that quote because it undermines his reporting…America wouldn’t blow up something that was dead! Can you please relay that to Hersh, thanks.

  • AG

    may be of interest re: US propaganda

    Caitlin Johnstone with a short but informative piece, I find; perhaps look into the hyperlinks:

    “Caitlin Johnstone: Pentagon’s Propaganda Push in Ukraine – The U.S. military’s push to “counter disinformation” actually has nothing to do with “taking apart Russian propaganda” and everything to do with suppressing dissent.”

      • useless eater

        Can you say anymore about the context of these events Gene Frenkle?

        On Taibbi, I came across information suggesting that his early foreign postings (in the 1990’s) were often very similar to those given to CIA cutouts – I never looked into the details and don’t wish to spread rumours but your post makes me think again.

        On Caitlin Johnstone, I was always struck by how globally famous she had become but never carried that thought through being very much a trusting “useless idiot”

  • AG

    and this is good too, at least to me as layman, but a much longer read

    (I hope by getting more factual it helps rationalize the madness engulfing us when looking day-to day news service)

    from World Financial Review:

    “The Unwarranted Ukraine Proxy War: A Year Later”
    By Dr Dan Steinbock

    “To Russia and Ukraine, the crisis is an existential issue. To the US and NATO, it’s a regime-change game. To Europe, it means the demise of stability – in the world economy, lost years (and that’s the benign scenario).”

    • Tatyana

      An existential issue – exactly. The very same opinion today in my news

      James Rickards, a person with some impressive experience

      “… The second facet of this war not reported in the media, or at least downplayed, is the growing risk of nuclear war.
      This risk increases with every escalatory step by both sides. The U.S. is the leader in reckless escalation by supplying long-range artillery, Patriot anti-missile batteries, intelligence, surveillance, and now the tanks. Russia responds at each step.
      There’s a number of steps before the two sides arrive at the nuclear level, but neither shows a willingness to step back.

      By the way, Russia has every legal right to attack those NATO countries supplying arms to Ukraine. By supplying arms to a party to the conflict, they’ve given up their neutrality and have become, in effect, combatants. Russia hasn’t done this because it doesn’t want to bring NATO directly into the fight. But legally, it can.”

      “… Russia can escalate just as quickly and lethally as the U.S.
      This entire scenario is a long slow march toward nuclear war or the complete disintegration of Ukraine.
      Is Anyone Really Prepared for This?
      The U.S. won’t end the weapons deliveries because Joe Biden is afraid of losing face and his closest advisors such as Victoria Nuland have an irrational hatred for Russia and are total warmongers.

      “… The Biden administration has essentially turned the war in Ukraine into an existential crisis for the U.S. and NATO, when it never should have been. Ukraine has never been a vital U.S. interest. But the war is existential for Russia, and won’t give up.”

      There’s a commenter here who loves to put questions. One of which was: “What negative consequences would have followed for Russia or even for Putin if he had not invaded in February 2022?”
      May I follow the pattern and in my turn ask: “What negative consequences would have followed for Ukraine or even for Biden if he had implemented Minsk1 in 2014? Minsk2 in 2015?”

      • John Kinsella

        Hi Tatyana.
        I’d be more impressed if you had answered my question (the one that you quoted: “What negative consequences would have followed for Russia or even for Putin if he had not invaded in February 2022?”).

        You quote James Rickards (a financial journalist) as saying “By the way, Russia has every legal right to attack those NATO countries supplying arms to Ukraine. By supplying arms to a party to the conflict, they’ve given up their neutrality and have become, in effect, combatants. ”

        That just isn’t true.

        A non-belligerent may supply arms to a belligerent without participating in the war.

        Neutral Sweden supplied steel and other materiel to Nazi Germany through most of WW2. Not sure about weapons but Swedish steel was crucial to Germany.

        Neutral USA supplied ships and other materiel to Britain until the USA itself joined the war when Nazi Germany declared war on the USA after Pearl Harbour.

        And of course the reason that the Putin regime don’t attack NATO is that they would lose, they can’t even defeat Ukraine..,.

        All the best,

        • AG


          forgive my intrusion, but since this is a hottly debated matter in Germany –

          Allow me to add at least the German official pespective on this:

          The German Parliament´s advisory council has warned that a participation of German war machinery in belligerent “action” (kinetic?) and the training of Ukrainian soldiers on German soil can mount up to a status of belligerent party. (my lingo)

          Now eventually this is not 100% they themselves say. And besides this council is mostly argueing in the affirmative of the particular reigning government (as other questions in the past have shown)

          Eventually this is no law of nature and I guess other entities could argue differently on the same question as we have seen in the past in matters of international law.

          The mere fact that the Biden government is still cautious not to send medium range missiles, not to speak of official US personnel (special OPs are in Ukraine since 2014 as Pentagon has admitted) is proof of how volatile these things are in reality.

          (And to quote Stoltenberg some 48 hours ago: NATO has been at war with Russia since 2014.)

          Here an article in Berliner Zeitung, May 22nd 2022
          (may be I will look up some new assessment. I believe there were contesting interpretations…anyway):

          Expert opinion: Training of Ukrainian soldiers may constitute participation in war – The Bundestag’s Scientific Service sees a possible participation in war by the West under international law.

          Germany may be directly participating in a war against Russia. According to scientists, the training of Ukrainian soldiers on Western weapons on German soil may constitute war participation by the West under international law. This is the result of an expert opinion of the Scientific Service of the Bundestag, as the newspapers of the Redaktionsnetzwerk Deutschland (RND) reported on Monday. According to the report, there is consensus among scholars that Western arms deliveries do not constitute entry into war under international law – as long as there is no involvement in hostilities. “Only if, in addition to the supply of weapons, the instruction of the conflict party or training on such weapons were in question, would one leave the secured area of non-warfare.”

          The twelve-page report by the Scientific Service, which is supposed to provide neutral advice to members of the Bundestag, is entitled “Legal Issues of Military Support to Ukraine by NATO States between Neutrality and Conflict Participation.” According to the report, it was prepared in March, i.e. before the decision by the German government and the Bundestag to supply German tanks directly to Ukraine and at the same time to train Ukrainian soldiers on Western weapons. The legal status of “non-warfare” has replaced “traditional neutrality” in international law practice in recent decades to allow support of states under attack – such as currently Ukraine – with arms supplies and money, the experts wrote further, according to the report.

          German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht (SPD) has previously announced at the U.S. military base in Ramstein that soldiers from Ukraine will be trained on artillery systems on German soil in the future. Together with the Netherlands, the soldiers are to be trained in the use of self-propelled howitzers, RND reports.
          Training on artillery systems on German soil

          “We are working together with our American friends in training Ukrainian troops on artillery systems on German soil,” Lambrecht read from a speech script distributed in advance at the U.S. military base in Rhineland-Palatinate on Tuesday. In addition to training soldiers, the plan is to provide ammunition to Ukraine. “Because we all know that artillery is an essential factor in this conflict.”

          The Left Party in the Bundestag criticized this as Germany’s entry into the Ukraine war. “The traffic light coalition and the CDU/CSU have made Germany an active party to the war with their decision in the Bundestag to supply heavy weapons to Ukraine and also to train Ukrainian soldiers ‘in Germany or on NATO territory,'” Zaklin Nastic, the Left Party chairwoman of the defense committee, told RND. “The German government is exposing all of Europe to a completely uncontrollable danger.

          • John Kinsella

            Hi AG.

            The comment “Only if, in addition to the supply of weapons, the instruction of the conflict party or training on such weapons were in question, would one leave the secured area of non-warfare.”

            seems crucial to me and needs justification.

            As counterexamples; the US supplied weapons (and training in their use?) to the Taliban in Afghanistan to use against the Red Army, the USSR supplied weapons (and training in their use?) to the Viet Cong in N Vietnam during that conflict.

            Neither assistance provoked retaliation by the aggrieved party.

            Nor did the supply by the USA of ships and other materiel (and training in their use?) to Britain in WW2.

            I think that Britain supplied warships to the Confederate rebels during the US Civil War? Not certain though, they might have been unarmed when supplied?

            The missing link is my counterexamples above is the issue of training. I would be very surprised if the USA didn’t train the Talibs/Mujahedeen in the use of Stinger missiles.
            And even more surprised if the US navy didn’t show British sailors “the ropes” on the ships supplied under lend lease?

            Is there any argument in the Bundestag advice as to why training is crucial?

            After all the Ukrainian military were presumably trained in the use of Himars etc?

            All the best,

      • Rosemary MacKenzie

        That’s the question Tatyana – what negative consequences would have followed for Ukraine if the Minsk1 and Minsk2 had been implemented. Let’s look at the positive consequences which would have saved Ukraine’s people from this disaster, and Russia from its SMO, and actually the whole of the west. We’d be in none of this mess, so many people would be alive, 15 year olds would not be drafted in Ukraine, gas/oil prices would be stable, etc etc. BUT the arms and oil/gas companies would not be making their obscene profits – what a shame!.

        On the propaganda front, I suspect more people in the west are following the Russian media than ever before. The western propaganda is so obviously propaganda, though I think it is beginning to change slightly, eg the ammunition for Ukraine is running out etc etc. A new shift, I do notice, is that according to the msm, Russians are seeking asylum in the US in large numbers, Russian women are going to Argentina to have babies and the US is expecting huge numbers of asylum seekers from that direction. Doubt if any of it is true.

        On the nuclear war front, Russia could have declared war on NATO many times over but hasn’t – that is where the sanity is, and that is where I put my trust. Russia has a practical plan and it is not total global decimation.

        The biggest problem for the US government is the loss of its dollar as a reserve currency and that is beginning to happen, and lots of countries a happy about that. The US gov spends nearly a trillion dollars on its military, it is at least 300 trillion dollars in debt, its infrastructure is not good, people work all their lives and live on the streets facing intimidation and violence. The US gov losing its dollar status would be the best thing that ever happened to the ordinary American people and the word.

        Maybe the UN should be concerned and investigate why that some of the main signatories of the Minsk Agreements never had any intention of implementing them.

        On the issue of Sweden in WW2, it was playing both sides – supplying its sort after ball bearings to the British and the Germans.

  • Carl

    A fine Media Lens piece marking the 20th anniversary of the Iraq invasion. Contrasts the British media’s coverage of that event with its coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Also reviews the burial of the US terror attack on the German-Russian gas pipeline. Concludes by echoing Craig’s verdict up above on what increasingly extreme censorship by omission says about so-called western democracies.

  • Carl

    “Yous are a fucking joke” – The amazing Mick Wallace telling the EU some hard truths about its subservience to the US empire. ???

    “When the NordStream Pipeline was attacked Von der Leyen said there would be “the strongest possible response”. The brilliant journalist Seymour Hersh has just said the US did it. Does the EU care? Did ye ask the US if they did it? Or have ye become so subservient that ye dare not ask..?”

      • Carl

        Of course, you know very well all the public vows made by high US officials to destroy it. Their expressions of satisfaction when it was done. You saw the burial of the story by empire media both at home and across Europe. You observed the immediate smearing of Hersh by all the usual apologists for US foreign policy. The cowardly silence of establishment politicians and their supporters across Europe. The sudden lack of interest by Von der Leyen and the rest in pursuing “the strongest possible response”.

        You’re fortunate in Ireland that your land still produces people brave enough to hit up at the most powerful force on the planet. Yet another proud day for the Irish. ? Erin go Bragh!

        • John Kinsella

          Wallace is a tax dodging property “developer”.

          An embarrassment to most Irish people. I doubt if he will be re-elected.

          But back to Hersh.

          We are invited to believe the claim by an 85 year old, based on one anonymous source, that the US blew up the pipeline with the assistance of Norway?

          Too many possibilities for leaks for that to be credible.

      • Bayard

        “Do you have proof (other than SH’s piece) that the US (and Norway!) blew the pipeline?”

        Do you have any proof that anyone else did it, or are we blaming the Terrorist Pipeline Gremlins? If it wasn’t the US, who was it and why?

        • John Kinsella

          Hi Bayard.

          No-one has any publicly available proof, as far as I know.

          So we need to resort to cui bono.

          Or more subtly ‘to whom the anticipated benefit ‘.

          Russia could have anticipated benefit because of the increased pressure on W European gas supplies.

          Certainly the USA could have anticipated benefit because of forcing W Europe to abandon dependence on Russian gas.

          The huge political risk for the USA if its responsibility was proven makes it very unlikely that they blew the pipeline.

          While Putin has no such worries and is certainly capable of acting irrationally and indeed against his own interests.

          So I’d say that some faction in Russia blew the pipeline.

          BTW I’m very glad that it was blown!

          And no, it wasn’t me. ?

          All the best,

          • Bayard

            “The huge political risk for the USA if its responsibility was proven makes it very unlikely that they blew the pipeline.”

            What huge political risk? The USA doesn’t give a shit what other people think of it. It has never been held to account, so why should it? “You and whose army?” should be the motto they put on their banknotes.

            “While Putin has no such worries and is certainly capable of acting irrationally and indeed against his own interests.”

            Ah, so, it’s the crazy Putin argument now, is it? I hear a barrel being scraped. Of course he would just piss away billions of roubles in investment simply to satisfy a whim, just like he only invaded Ukraine because he was feeling grumpy that morning.

            The Ukranians had far more reason to blow up the pipeline than Russia and yet no-one is saying that it was them.

          • Carl

            Was it for this the wild geese spread
            The grey wing upon every tide;
            For this that all that blood was shed,
            For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
            And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
            All that delirium of the brave?
            Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
            It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

            W.B. Yeats,
            “The Age of Kinsella”

  • AG

    I have been asked here why Germany doesn´t do anything re: NS 1&2.

    A little anecdote from today, it´s not really connected but may be you will get the idea:

    Last week a peace manifesto was published by 2 major figures in the German public. One left the other not.

    Even though this call for peace was criticized heavily and smeared by the media, within a week there were 500.000 signatures, which is a lot. (they warned about WWIII.)

    However today was the first time that I actually looked into the manifesto: the 1st sentence claimed 200.000 dead soldiers in Ukraine and 50.000 dead civilians. (to prove the dread of the situation.)

    50.000 dead cilivians? wait a moment.

    Now the UNHRC – United Nations Human Rights Council – responsible for these numbers – as far as I know – say not 50.000 (which would be tremendous) but 7199 killed civilians. Which is I think half of what happened in Iraq in year 1. (Look it up I forgot)

    I pointed this out in several letters today to the organizers as I found it odd.

    Especially as nobody had apparently pointed this out to them earlier.

    Someone, I assume connected to the organizers, answered me and explained that the figures they used for the manifesto came from the US High Command, which is the US Armed Forces. The UN numbers were believed to be too low by experts (which ones I do not know) as they were created by some UN-method they do not trust.

    Apparently in Germany the trust even by antiwar activists (naturally a group thus huge created through compromise) in the US Army is bigger now than the trust in the United Nations which usually has always been the prime authority in such cases. It is noteworthy that for the first time we believe the American Army (this is definitely a new attitude in the FRG) more than those civilian guys.

    I doubt that this would have also been the case had it not been the US Army but the Russians.

    Second, I don´t understand why they used the American figures instead of the UN numbers in the first place when drafting this memo. I doubt this would have happened 1 year ago.

    p.s. they are afraid. I dont know of what.


    JOHN to your question above – there is a 12 page survey from the German counsel laying out the analysis in detail.
    May be I can get it. May be not.

    But I´m tired now.
    Too much energy used today and too many disappointments taken.

  • Crispa

    “What negative consequences would have followed for Russia or even for Putin if he had not invaded in February 2022?”.
    I thought this was an interesting question, but not helped by it being unidimensional and presented as a double negative, which could only lead to hypothetical and meaningless answers, which was probably the intention in putting it that way.
    Phrased in plainer terms, “what would make it worse for Russia if it had done nothing and stayed put instead of launching its special military operation?” Who knows? Possibly that nasty piece of work, Victoria Nuland, would be gloating, as she has over the destruction of Nord Stream 2, on the progress towards her avowed aim of smashing Russia into little pieces.
    As a corresponding question, what would make it worse for Ukraine, if it had not engineered the 2014 Maidan coup, which it did with USA help, then launched its own anti terror operation against its own people, not sabotaged the Minsk agreements and not stuffed the Donbass with collective west supported military might in consequence, and not deluded itself into thinking it could win the ensuing war? Put in this way, “the negative consequences” to Ukraine appear distinctly more negatively measurable.

    • John Kinsella

      Hi Crispa.

      Is that “Victoria Nuland, would be gloating” really your answer to your question “what would make it worse for Russia if it had done nothing and stayed put instead of launching its” (invasion of Ukraine)?

      To quote W.B. Yeats (Was it) “For this that all that blood was shed”?

      Forgive me but that is a very weak answer to your unnecessary rewording of my question.

      All the best,

  • Jack

    The MSC Munich conference going on now,
    Germany’s new defense minister slam peace activists petition that call to stop arms deliveries to Ukraine
    and France call on europe to start massproducing weapons for Ukraine

    Europe is totally lost – france, germany, the nations that should be the most sane is the most politically corrupt and even though the 2 previous wars devasted the whole region they have learnt nothing.
    Of course this sends the signal to Russia that they have no partner on the other side to talk to, no peace effort, so they will keep bombing until there is no unified Ukraine anymore.

    This is how HIMARS are used by the way by Ukraine, on civilian roads!

    • John Kinsella

      Hi jack.

      So the shortage of useful idiots (my choice of words, not yours) in France or Germany will lead to Russia continuing to bomb until there is no unified Ukraine anymore?

      That reduces Russia to an automoton, reacting to W European actions.

      While in fact Putin’s invasion was the act of an insecure autocrat.

      As is his continued assault on Ukraine.

      All the best,

      • Bayard

        “So the shortage of useful idiots (my choice of words, not yours) in France or Germany will lead to Russia continuing to bomb until there is no unified Ukraine anymore?”

        You’ve skipped a step in the logical chain there: the “shortage of useful idiots” ( of course everyone who objects to war, with its huge destruction of property and lives, has to be an idiot) will ensure the continuation of the supply of arms to Ukraine, which will lead to Russia continuing to bomb until there is no unified Ukraine anymore”.
        Now let’s consider what would happen given an ample supply of “useful idiots”: the supply of arms would stop, the current regime in Ukraine will have to sue for peace when it very rapidly runs out of ammunition and the fighting will stop. Infrastructure will stop being blown up and people will stop dying.
        However, you have to set this against the downside: there will be no more unified Ukraine, NATO would be humiliated and commenters on this blog would be denied the satisfaction of Putin being humiliated and out of office. Surely all that death and destruction is but a small price to pay to avoid that disaster. Pride is always far more important than peace.

      • Jack

        John Kinsella

        Yes! The more warmongering the west/nato is and the longer they reject peace talks, the more Ukraine will be destroyed.
        Have not the past year proved that very well?

  • Tatyana

    Hi all, happy Saturday Goeiemorgen 🙂 May I ask for a favor?
    February 16 Lukashenko gave a big press-conference, video available here
    Alexander Grigorievich speaks to journalists and addresses one of them ‘Steve’. I guess it is Steve Rosenberg from BBC. And BBC is unavailable for me, the site won’t open.
    Lukashenko says some truly important words about war and about peace.
    If I could ask anyone to look for Steve Rosenberg’s report for BBC on this event? I’d like to compare what was said by Belorussian president and how it was presented by BBC. Would be nice if you could copy the text.

    • John Kinsella

      Hi Tatyana. Here you go!

      «« Few people know Vladimir Putin quite as well as Alexander Lukashenko does.

      The authoritarian leader of Belarus is a firm Kremlin ally and backer of what Mr Putin refers to as the “special military operation” – what most of the world calls Russia’s war in Ukraine.

      Since his full-scale invasion of Ukraine a year ago, Mr Putin hasn’t sat down with Western journalists.

      But today in Minsk, Mr Lukashenko took questions from a small group of foreign media, including the BBC.

      “Last year you allowed your country to be used as a staging ground for Russia’s invasion,” I reminded Mr Lukashenko. “Are you prepared to do so again?”

      “Yes, I’m ready,” he replied. “I’m ready to provide [territory] again. I’m also ready to wage war, alongside the Russians, from the territory of Belarus. But only if someone – even a single soldier – enters our territory from there (Ukraine) with weapons to kill my people.”

      Military co-operation between Russia and Belarus has been on the increase, with joint drills and the formation of a joint military grouping. But so far the Belarusian leader has avoided sending his troops into Ukraine to fight alongside Russian forces.

      The UK, EU and the United States do not recognise Alexander Lukashenko as the legitimate president of Belarus. In 2020 Belarusians poured on to the streets to accuse him of stealing the country’s presidential election. The protests were brutally suppressed.

      Mr Lukashenko used Thursday’s event to blame the West for the war in Ukraine.

      He accused Western governments of fuelling the conflict and engaged in a touch of Putinesque nuclear sabre-rattling,

      “If you continue this escalation, you will get nuclear weapons and Russia has more than anyone,” he said.

      “So, you should stop this. If a nuclear war starts, Belarus will cease to exist. We need to sit down at the negotiating table, because nuclear war will wipe out the USA too. No-one needs this.”

      Belarus shares a border with Ukraine and Russia sent troops from there when it launched its invasion

      Having facilitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine one year ago, the Belarusian leader now claims he can help negotiate peace.

      Mr Lukashenko suggested that next week would be a good time to start, with US President Joe Biden due to visit Poland.

      “I invite [President Biden] to Belarus,” Mr Lukashenko said. “It’s not far from Warsaw, Thirty minutes and he’ll be in Minsk. He could land his plane here. I will persuade the president of Russia to come. I invite him too to Minsk, as well as Biden. We will sit down and reach an agreement.”

      It is an invitation the US president is likely to decline. In this war Mr Lukashenko is not seen as an honest broker. »»

      PS I wonder who is preventing you from viewing the BBC website. All the best, John

      • Tatyana

        Goeiemorgen, John 🙂 Goeietag 🙂
        Thank you for this text. I’ll translate Lukashenko’s words in English and post it today.

        BBC is blocked by Roscomnadzor. Neither do I enjoy or support this decision. They could have just labeled them as a foreign agent, like they did with the others. This would be absolutely sufficient.
        by the way, western regulators might have done the same with RT.

        I’m pro freedom of speech, I’m pro free access to any sort of information. I think I’m grown up enough to make choices of my own. I don’t need any brokers controlling, sorting, filtering, highlighting or suppressing any information, to create an artificial info environment. I know what targeted advertising is, so, no, thanks.

        • Tatyana

          also, if you come across a western president speaking for Russia Today about their country’s prospects for entering this war – I will be happy to return the favor and find the Russian text 🙂

  • AG

    JOHN et. al.

    following three government pdfs are related to issues of arms supplies

    I know this is rather highly legal German. But until I find time to go into it (no idea when though, frankly), at least let me post the pdf-links here:

    1) the one I referred to above:
    “Legal Issues of Military Support to Ukraine by – NATO countries between neutrality and conflict participation”, 12 pages, March 16th, 2022

    2) “Supply of “heavy weapons” to Ukraine”, 8 pages, May 5th 2022

    3) “On the definition of (combat) tanks – Technical and international legal clues for the definition of (combat) tanks in the current political debate”, 29 pages, July 11th 2022:

      • Jack

        Yes I saw that video too, nazi salutes, nazi chevron patches, nope nothing is reported by the MSM.
        Is Zelensky with his jewish heritage that he and his supporters like to point out, OK with this? Or does these nazis have more power than him?
        What are they saying the video btw?

      • irene

        – Germany does NOT have a peace treaty;
        – multiple US military bases in Germany, such as Ramstein; currently 40 000 + miltary personell stationed in Germany
        – Kanzlerakte ( needs to be signed by newly-elected chancellor before taking his / her oath of office)

          • AG


            Kanzlerakte – if by that IRENE means the covert US supremacy over German media and state powers etc. – that is most likely an absolute poorly produced dumb fake.

            (sry IRENE, I really meant no offence. But I get upset when I read about such things people wasting their precious time with.)

            The Kanzlerakte supposedly was to be signed by every newly elected German chancellor to secretly cede powers to the U.S.A. This concept itself reads like a high schooler´s imagination under drugs.

            I read an alleged version online. It was not well written, not in the proper language of its context. etc.
            Anybody could see that.

            The only hint of its existence, was I think, Egon Bahr, Willy Brandt´s political advisor, allegedly mentioning something totally unspecific at some meeting where nobody was around.

      • Tatyana

        and now John Kinsella has no questions? John?
        you were talking about military training.
        some time ago I learned about such an military term ‘kneecapping’, the person who enlighted me on the meaning said it is Irish.
        are you familiar with it, John?
        if not, I can suggest a video

        • John Kinsella

          Hi Tatyana.

          I was out all day! ?

          (Even frequent posters must attend to other matters now and then…)

          But see my question to Irene above.

          All the best,

          PS I look forward to your translation of Putin Minor’s press conference.

        • John Kinsella

          Hi Tatyana.

          In reply to your question re kneecapping. Yes of course I have heard of it.

          A cruel punishment that was frequently used by the IRA to maintain control over CNR areas.

          What about it?

          All the best, John

        • AG


          morality is merely a means to an end.

          Millions in Germany are against tanks with Iron Crosses to be sent.

          But that´s meaningless. The government is the executive. And they decided on this.

          Look at people like Henry Kissinger. Does morality lead him?
          for him, just like 90% of these people it is about interests and power.

          Moral has no material value in their concept of the world.

          And above all: The question of morality of our actions doesn´t arise because – per se – our actions, whatever they may be, as of February 24th 2022 are morally always sound because this is a fight between good and evil.

          And in a fight of good and evil morality is by definition your side. It is a self-serving logic.

          Just like the Bush II government re-introduced fascist Schmitt-ean legal argumentation for its concept of “lawless combatants” – which left everyone falling under this rule entirely to the mercy of the USA. No rights.

          This concept has now been expanded onto the state of Russia.

          Only obstacles:
          Russia is a nuclear power.
          Russia has a lot of Allies, in fact most countrie on this planet.

          p.s. as latest rumour goes:

          Russian soldiers for the war so far: KIA 14.000 / Ukrainian KIA 140.000 + an unclear number killed by the mercenary group of Wagner. thus 170.000 +

          Febr. 21 perhaps a final offensive might be announced.

          May be the result of a deal between both sides (US/RU) that would grant RU time until summer to get their “act” together before heavier stuff arrives in Ukraine. Possibly HIMARS and jets. Ukraine will now counter this with the last rests of tanks an men they held in reserve.

          Then after another thousands killed both sides might play a new game of poker and decide upon the fate of the Ukrainian people who is at the mercy of groups who will repeat the destruction of civil society for the sake of profits in a grand scheme to take over of the countrie´s resources just as we could witness in Iraq.

          Which turned into an unholy mess. And it might have become worse had not Iranian units intervened against ISIS, after the US had mostly abandoned the place they so professionaly had devastated.

          The altrnative will be escalation of war.

          But may be we are speaking of late spring already.

          I don´t know.
          Am just sitting in front of computer screen.

          • Pears Morgaine

            ” Millions in Germany are against tanks with Iron Crosses to be sent. ”

            Millions support sending the tanks and the Iron Crosses (actually Balkan Crosses, Iron Cross has concave arms) will no doubt be painted out and replaced with Ukrainian insignia.

            ” Russia has a lot of Allies, in fact most countrie on this planet. ”

            Really? Why don’t they vote for Russia at the UN? The most recent vote, to declare the annexation of Donbas by Russia illegal, 143 Member States voted in favour, with five against, and 35 abstentions.

            ” Russian soldiers for the war so far: KIA 14.000 / Ukrainian KIA 140.000 + an unclear number killed by the mercenary group of Wagner. thus 170.000 + ”

            Fantasy figures, neither side has released reliable numbers so those are pure guesswork and wishful thinking. Attacking forces can generally expect more casualties.

          • AG


            re: tanks

            What I meant to do since Tatyana asked, was to assure her that there are millions in Germany against these tanks.
            If you divide the nation in two. Additionally, to be fair, you have to count in that those 46% in favour (43% against initially in the heat of the debate) are being pushed by the power of the entire German media. And still, I might say, many would resist.

            * * *

            re: Irosn Cross / Balkan Cross

            As to Iron Cross. It was a symbolic discussion. The term Iron Cross, as well in English I believe, is still far more widely used than Balkan Cross (Balkenkreuz/Schwarzes Kreuz) – the problem is entirely symbolic. But in questions of death and life symbols matter. On the other hand eventually you dont care what tank´s grenade kills your company.

            As to the Iron Cross´ history – the term is also better known than Balkan Cross I guess, as it is the most famous military medal. Often used in Hollywood war movies. So it´s a popular “topos”. (and Iron is perhaps better to remember than Balkan)

            In fact originally the Iron Cross WAS the medal only. (Which I assume you were getting at.)

            Apart from that, another Russia analogy – the knights of the German Deutsche Ritterorden – The German Teutonic Order – as an ally of the Catholic Church attacked then pre-Russia in the 13th century to get under control the Russian heretics or wipe them out.

            The German knights were eventually stopped by pre-Russia prince Alexander Newski from Novgorod.

            The battle over this became of course iconic and deeply ingrained in Russian popular memory even more so with Eisenstein´s 1938 propaganda war movie “Alexander Newski”, which he did on the explicit beheast of Stalin, and which works even today on its simple level of good vs. evil. and particularly also for Prokofiev´s score.

            And it was this same Teutonic Order who established the Balkan Cross/Black Cross, of course it changed over the centuries.

            But however one takes the deatails in – the mere fact that German tanks with names identical to those from WWII will be delivered to Ukrainian units among which there will most likely be Neonazis who cherish the view of that era, is obviously a highly delicate matter

            (CM had a good entry here on his blog showing how search engines tried to censor Ukrainian units with Nazi insignia).

            Considering the still live memory of Nazi V1- attacks against Britain, also as a part of colloquial popular culture, it should be understood that for Russia it is even more of significance (27 mio killed) – after all Germans didn´t even touch British main land, and never had in mind to wipe them out as Untermenschen.

            So if you compare, compare fairly.

            * * *
            re: Russian Allies

            As to the Global South – by “Allied to Russia” I meant of course a more diverse positions – since 200 governments and 8 bn people create a very complex network of decisions.

            But I believe it is pretty explicit that the G7 industrialized nations who also contain the core nations of 500 years of colonization are the one who are pushing the Anti-Russia narrative.

            Rather differential texts you might accept,

            1) “The Puzzling Silence of the Global South on Russian aggression against Ukraine”
            by Yaning Zhang (let not fool yourelf, he is a Berlin based scholar)

            2) “The west v Russia: why the global south isn’t taking sides”

            3) if one wonders about the unwillingness of the Global South, here Josep Borrell´s infamous speech where he compared EU as a garden and the rest as a djungle – iconic!

            “EU Ambassadors Annual Conference 2022: Opening speech by High Representative Josep Borrell”


            5) as additional item, a socialist summary about the OAS

            * * *
            re: killed soldiers

            I used the word “rumour” with reason since I find it difficult to get 100% numbers on the KIA.

            The latest assessment of 14.000 Russians dead is similiar to former US general McGregor´s inteview with Judge Napolitano some time ago (there it was 20.000) .

            Now it goes back to the Ukrainian political scientist Ivan Katchanovsi at Ottawa University, who also did some ground-breaking work on the Maidan snipings.

            He said Febr. 17th via Twitter:
            “Based on open sources, the BBC managed to establish the names of 14,709 Russian soldiers who died in the war in Ukraine. Throughout 2022, Russian sources typically reported about 250-300 dead each week. In January, these figures doubled. But in just two weeks in February, the BBC Russian Service, together with Mediazona (recognized as a “foreign agent” in Russia) and a team of volunteers, managed to confirm the names of 1,679 dead, which is five times more than the usual weekly numbers.”


            and concerning the Ukrainian killed there seems to be some accordance between Russian reporting daily 400 killed and Ukrainian reports from fall.

            I dont know what to believe. I can only compare.

            But I do not see why of all sources I should trust public Pentagon statements more than others.

  • John Kinsella

    An excellent piece imo by Irish TV journalist Tony Connolly.

    Connolly sets out a lucid narrative of the Russian invasion of Ukraine from early 2022 to the present and forecasts no early end to the war.

    His conclusion:
    “There is no clear logic which says that ‘X’ amount of territory or security concessions being ceded to Russia will hasten peace.
    Only when one or both parties decide they have more to gain from cutting a deal than continuing to fight, then some kind of logic will materialise.”

    All the best,

    • Goose

      Hi John

      Do you honestly believe Ukrainian decision makers are being well advised by their new-found western partners?

      Imagine Wales being urged to fight England to the last Welshman and woman, or militarily weak Ireland. The larger, more powerful neighbour is sure to have the staying power to overwhelm and prevail, eventually, regardless of battle setbacks. If only due to geographical proximity. With the defeated side paying a disproportionately horrific price. Ukraine’s economy is already ruined, millions of its people have fled.

      Ukraine seems to be fighting on purely for the UK’s, US’s and EU’s honour and pride. And their desire to see Putin given a bloody nose. It’s a huge waste of human life, Ukrainian and Russian, for what is likely to be the same foregone conclusion, as that had they just sat down and negotiated instead.

      Very few on the left are saying this. I’m still hoping Paul Mason will explain his support for Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and Northrop Grumman from a Marxist perspective.

      • John Kinsella

        Hi Goose.

        Britain stood against National Socialist Germany in 1940.

        (I have no illusions btw about Churchill’s racist attitudes and actions.)

        With a trickle of supply from the USA, constrained by large numbers of Americans fearful of war with Germany.

        Sound familiar?

        Should 1940 Britain have sought peace with National Socialist Germany?

        All the best,

        • Goose

          I don’t think it’s analogous. However, it could become so:

          Chamberlain negotiated and returned with the Munich Agreement(1938) which allowed Germany to annex parts of Czechoslovakia (the Sudetenland, ethnic German areas). Preventing a full German invasion of Czechoslovakia.

          Had Russia been offered a similar arrangement for ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine. We’d have a clear basis of understanding and a red line. What remains of Ukraine could join Nato, that would be part of the deal.

          • Goose

            John K. all

            re WW3?

            I think the legacy of WW2 and the ‘appeaser’ reputation Neville Chamberlain has, still haunts UK PMs and policy makers. They’re terrified of going down in history as appeasers.

            Hitler’s Germany had lots of supporters in the UK establishment, right up to and including King Edward III, who prior to WW2, declared he felt German, with “every fiber of his being.” The rise of the Nazis was in large part due to the atrocious deal imposed on Germany that ended WW1, the Treaty of Versailles 1919. The reparations imposed on Germany and its people were intolerable. That Treaty created fertile ground in Germany for fascism and Hitler’s ‘great betrayal’ arguments. A Lesson there in imposing harsh penalties on Russia. Putin may go, but does a true Russian Hitler then emerge?

            There was nothing wrong with the Munich Agreement per se imho, Chamberlain is unfairly discredited. He was trying to avert a catastrophic war. The war came anyway, as we all know, and an estimated total of 70–85 million people perished, or about 3% of the 2.3 billion (est.) people on Earth in 1940. Wasn’t it worth his attempt to prevent that?

          • Pears Morgaine

            I think you mean Edward VIII, Edward III died in 1377.

            Reparations were suspended in 1931 and cancelled altogether in 1932 when just 16% had been paid. The Nazi party’s support was declining until the depression caused by the Wall Street Crash caused the German economy to tank, Germany had invested heavily in the US. Unemployment rose from 1.3 million in September 1929 to 6.1 million in January 1933.

          • Goose

            Pears Morgaine

            Indeed. my bad, I meant Edward VIII.

            The main point is about grievance, and how someone could come along and exploit any terms that are humiliating to Russia. We all witnessed here, how Nigel Farage (UKIP) shaped public anger about lots of societal ills and focused that anger at the door of the EU. This is easy to do for politicians that are skilled. Russia probably has lots of these types of people, waiting in the wings, who’ll be far more aggressive than Putin.

            Hitler won the Iron cross in 1914, of which he wrote: ‘It was the happiest day of my life. ‘ That war and how it ended, with Hitler attributing defeat to a ‘defeatist’ Jewish-controlled press, and bankers who’d starved the army of fighting funds, shaped and cemented his bitter views.

          • Goose

            From : ‘The German Hyperinflation, 1923’ – George J. W. Goodman(1981)

            Under the Treaty of Versailles Germany was forced to make a reparations payment in gold-backed Marks, and it was due to lose part of the production of the Ruhr and of the province of Upper Silesia. ….The vengeful French sent their army into the Ruhr to enforce their demands for reparations, and the Germans were powerless to resist.

            ….the printing presses ran, and once they began to run, they were hard to stop. The price increases began to be dizzying. Menus in cafes could not be revised quickly enough. A student at Freiburg University ordered a cup of coffee at a cafe. The price on the menu was 5,000 Marks. He had two cups. When the bill came, it was for 14,000 Marks. “If you want to save money,” he was told, “and you want two cups of coffee, you should order them both at the same time.”

            When the 1,000-billion Mark note came out, few bothered to collect the change when they spent it. By November 1923, with one dollar equal to one trillion Marks, the breakdown was complete. The currency had lost meaning.

            Pearl Buck, the American writer who became famous for her novels of China, was in Germany in 1923. She wrote later: “The cities were still there, the houses not yet bombed and in ruins, but the victims were millions of people. They had lost their fortunes, their savings; they were dazed and inflation-shocked and did not understand how it had happened to them and who the foe was who had defeated them. Yet they had lost their self-assurance, their feeling that they themselves could be the masters of their own lives if only they worked hard enough; and lost, too, were the old values of morals, of ethics, of decency.”

            The fledgling Nazi party, whose attempted coup had failed in 1923, won 32 seats legally in the next election. The right-wing Nationalist party won 106 seats, having promised 100 percent compensation to the victims of inflation and vengeance on the conspirators who had brought it.

          • AG

            a simple Statist graphic on the parliamentary election results 1919-1933:

            statist on people out of work: 1926-1935

            NSDAP and its allies were not near a real majority, even with the last free election.

            It is known that NSDAP after the failed 1932 Nov. election had a major crisis. The party was almost bankrupt after they had spent a fortune on election campaigns as well as keeping their terror aparatus afloat financially and still failed expectations.

            Most likely Hitler´s financial backers became impatient.

            A rift within the party became apparent. The “left” Nationalsocialists under Georg Strasser, who drew support more in rightwing “grassroots” wanted less power for Hitler and his bigshots.

            Strasser who was less well connected lost this struggle and was eventually killed in 1934 when all remnants of inner-party resistance were exterminated.

            So the party´s consolidation and eventual success was in major part a highly bloody mess beyond any discussion over legitimacy or any such “theoretical” matter.

            As the heavy industry and the main press moguls observed that Hitler was willing to go to maximum lenghts in keeping his power after the 1932 crisis they agreed to help out generously.

            Additionally it must be remembered: in the public after 1930 only Nazi units as non-state agencies were allowed the carrying of arms in public.

            And this was a decision by Weimar governmental bodies. Hitler was not in power.

            The only left armed counter forces, the Communists, were outlawed and henceforth only operated underground.

            The effect of terror on the general population well before 1933 cannot be overstressed. In terms of election behaviour etc.

            Still even in 1933 it was not in Hitler´s power to become Hitler the chancellor. Deals were made on the highest level and there were agreements made.

            Even after 1933 it was still a long way to establish power foundations.

            The then German Army, the Reichswehr, was among the most resilient in certain areas.

            During the failed 1944 coup, it was police units in Berlin most loyal to the Stauffenberg group.

            * * *

            As for Russia: Call me naive, but Russia is way more stable domestically I believe than most Western observers think.

            As Richard Sakwa once pointed out, if one term could best characterize Putin, it´s “mediator” between the factions. Thus this system finds him useful because his way to do things brings most advantage to most people.

            Not unlike Angela Merkel in fact for the upper 50% in Germany in a narrower sense.
            (even though unlike Putin she did heavy damage to other EU countries and supporting EU´s hard line against migration.)

            p.s. what would be interesting to hear is in depth politics between Russia and the other neighbouring countries.

          • Goose


            Russia is fundamentally more stable than the fragile Weimar Republic. But there are plenty of reckless western officials and policy makers, who’d like to throw that country into a similar fiscal and monetary crisis, if they could. And to hell with the consequences. Most of the measures thus far seem to have backfired and look more like self-sabotage from the EU and Germany’s perspective.

          • AG


            I have no time to substantially follow German domestic financial politics.
            But I wonder what one could unearth about internal political fights over what you describe.

            As I wrote some other day:

            We do know that regarding the Scholz government´s politics towards Russian gas and Russia-sanctions there must have been some considerable disagreement by the ministry offices responsible for Germany´s energy supply.

            Where this kind of conflict becomes public more conflict lies beneath. After all on the inside they have seen this coming.

            But as the German government in the 1970s was incapable to implement a new agenda for mass transportation as the Dutch e.g. have done or the Chinese, they seem to lack vision or will to now properly prepare the ground for what you could justly call “reform” or “Change” or “revolution”.

            Interesting enough: The talk of fusion reactors has ebbed away completely for now.

          • Goose


            On Nord Stream

            One theory for German and Scholz’s relative silence and acquiescence over the blasts. Possibly relates to German and other European companies getting out of certain costly legal and contractual obligations; with the pipelines rendered inoperative, possibly permanently.

            Nord Stream is a joint project involving five major companies: Gazprom international projects LLC (PJSC Gazprom subsidiary), Wintershall Dea AG, PEG Infrastruktur AG (E. ON), N.V. Nederlandse Gasunie and ENGIE.

          • AG


            yeah, thx for pointing out!

            sounds just like the logic of merchants.
            If the spring is drained, let’s move on to the next one.

            * * *

            Chinese former Foreign Secretary, present at the Munich Security Conference, announced a peace plan by the “Global South”. Which means the governments of about 80% of the world´s population are in favour of it. Not so the “West”, the rest. They want to solve the issue with violence.

            Report, 20th Febr.:


            ««At the Munich Security Conference, China announced an initiative to end the war in Ukraine. The Global South is in favor, the West – including Germany – against.

            MUNICH (Own report) – China’s highest-ranking foreign policy official announced an initiative to end the Ukraine war at the Munich Security Conference over the weekend. Wang Yi announced that Beijing will soon present a paper outlining China’s position on settling the conflict. China’s push is in line with calls for a negotiated settlement to the Ukraine war that have long been put forward in the Global South. Brazil’s President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, for example, recently announced the formation of a “peace club” of states that are in favor of an end to the Ukraine war. India is also trying to negotiate with both sides in the conflict; its National Security Advisor was in Moscow for talks with President Vladimir Putin about ten days ago. Turkey has successfully moderated talks between Russia and Ukraine in the past; however, a possible peace agreement in the spring of 2022 failed due to interventions by the West. Berlin is also positioning itself against Beijing’s latest mediation proposal and is betting on a military victory for Ukraine.

            China’s negotiating initiative

            Former Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi, his country’s highest-ranking foreign policy official as chairman of the Communist Party’s Foreign Policy Commission, announced Saturday at this year’s Munich Security Conference a Beijing initiative to end the Ukraine war. According to the statement, the People’s Republic will soon present a document outlining the Chinese position on settling the conflict. According to Wang, the document calls not least for the territorial integrity of all states to be preserved. He emphasized this at the Munich Security Conference as well, but refused to apply it exclusively to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, instead implicitly including the constant aggression of Western states – from their wars to the excessive Western sanctions policy to the regular interference in the internal affairs of foreign countries. According to – unconfirmed – reports, President Xi Jinping will give a speech on the anniversary of the Russian invasion in which he will plead for peace talks. Wang planned to leave immediately from Munich for Moscow – for talks on ending the Ukraine war.

            Lula’s “Peace Club”

            China’s initiative to end the war in Ukraine has met with broad approval in the Global South. Just recently, Brazil’s President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva said he was committed to mediation efforts to stop the fighting. Specifically, Lula proposed the establishment of a “peace club” (“clube da paz”). This would have to be an association of states that are not directly linked to either of the two warring parties and that want to bring about an early end to the war in Ukraine. Brazil wants to play an important role in it. By contrast, the Brazilian president categorically rejects the delivery of weapons and ammunition to Ukraine, which German Chancellor Olaf Scholz recently demanded. Lula attributes strong influence to China in all of this; he demands that Beijing “get its hands dirty” to end the Ukraine war. At the end of March, he is expected to hold negotiations with President Xi Jinping in the Chinese capital. Lula also has India and Turkey in mind as members of the “peace club.” Out of the question are the U.S. and the states of Europe, which have long since become de facto warring parties with their Russia sanctions and with their arms deliveries to Ukraine.

            “From war strategies to peace patterns”

            India, mentioned by Lula as a possible member of the “clube da paz,” is equally keen on a negotiated solution. The country still refuses to take sides in the Ukraine war, despite intense pressure from Western countries. It is even significantly expanding its economic cooperation with Russia. In view of this, New Delhi has repeatedly been classified as a possible mediator, and it has been holding talks with Moscow on a possible end to the war for quite some time. This was the case, for example, when Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar was in Moscow in November for extensive negotiations. Then, about ten days ago, India’s National Security Advisor Ajit Doval toured the Russian capital. There, he also held talks with President Vladimir Putin in person – something Putin rarely grants to officials who are not heads of state or government. In late January, the Observer Research Foundation, an influential think tank headquartered in New Delhi, published a study on ways to end the war through negotiations. The global debate must “shift from strategies for war to patterns for peace,” the paper says – anything else is “far too dangerous for the world.”

            Successful mediator

            Turkey, which Lula also named as a potential “peace club” member, began acting as a mediator shortly after the war began. For example, it sponsored the talks that brought Moscow and Kiev closer to a peace settlement in late March than at any time since the war began or since; the chance to reach agreement on at least a cease-fire at a meeting in Istanbul was coolly quashed by Western powers ( reported). The Turkish government subsequently managed to negotiate the agreement on grain shipments across the Black Sea in talks with Russian and Ukrainian officials; this is considered probably the biggest and most important negotiating success in the Ukraine war to date. In a telephone conversation with his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Selenskyj, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said on Jan. 20 that Ankara remained ready to provide diplomatic support in peace negotiations. He had offered the same in a telephone conversation with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin four days earlier.

            The West versus the South

            While various states of the Global South are trying to mediate between Moscow and Kiev and have always launched new initiatives to this end, the German government so far shows no interest in a negotiated solution. “Ukraine must win this war,” Defense Minister Boris Pistorius declared at the Munich Security Conference over the weekend. Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock likewise responded in Munich to Wang’s announcement that China would seek negotiations in the Ukraine war, saying the war could not end without Russia withdrawing its forces from Ukraine. By making a conceivable outcome of negotiations a precondition for them, Baerbock is putting new obstacles in the way of negotiations. Berlin is thus not only opposing a swift end to the Ukraine war; it is also openly positioning itself against the Global South.»»

          • Goose


            A few points to ponder re the recent sabre-rattling of EU and US officials, towards China over Taiwan:

            • Taiwan’s main opposition party, Kuomintang (KMT), fared well in recent local government elections. The KMT is traditionally known as a pro-mainland China party so the outcome of polls was welcomed by Beijing.

            • Taiwan’s opposition Kuomintang (KMT) recently wrapped up a nine-day trip to China, including meetings with the Communist Party’s highest-ranking officials.

            • Voice of America: “Washington policy circles think Taiwan’s KMT and the CCP are uncomfortably friendly”

            • Taiwan general election in early 2024.

            The KMT can’t really be classed as favouring China per se, but they do want a peaceful coexistence and are pro a strong, successful China as a partner to an autonomous Taiwan. The current leadership (DPP) are very confrontational and far more pro-US, pro -independence. Expect the US and EU to try to force a crisis or two before that election.

          • useless eater

            Goose that is a revealing quote describing the social reality of Weimar, thanks.

            “The cities were still there, the houses not yet bombed and in ruins, but the victims were millions of people. They had lost their fortunes, their savings; they were dazed and inflation-shocked and did not understand how it had happened to them and who the foe was who had defeated them. Yet they had lost their self-assurance, their feeling that they themselves could be the masters of their own lives if only they worked hard enough; and lost, too, were the old values of morals, of ethics, of decency.”

            Could this description be fairly applied to Russia in the 1990’s?

            AG can I add this to your description of Weimar?

            “Indeed, the only stable feature of the Weimar regime was the tenure of Defense Minister Gessler, the army’s nexus to the government, who would hold on to his ministerial saddle through 13 Cabinets, from 1920 to
            1928. The constancy denoted the permanence of the Reichswehr as ‘a state within the State,’ provisioned by a special budget out of the purview of the Reichstag, which cascaded in a myriad of secret slush funds untraceable even by the most seasoned of parliamentarians.”

            Preparata Conjuring Hitler Pluto Press 2005


            “Since 1920, the German Republic always had a double government: that of the Chancellor of the Reich with his ministers and that of the generals. Whenever a disagreement arose, the army always won. All of this was called ‘German democracy.’ ”

            A Rosenberg Storia della repubblica tedesca (Deutsche Republik). Roma Edizioni 1945

            Goose and AG, the similarity of 1990’s Russia and Weimar seems strong to me. Both counties had just lost a cataclysmic war. Both countries were “financially raped” by London and Wall Street. (Check out William Browder’s career in Russia, in the 1990’s, if you wish to understand what I mean by “financially raped”). Substitute Yeltsin for the broken Weimar system, they seem analogous, no?
            In one case we got Hitler, in the other we got Putin. Hitler was backed by international capital, Putin by the the “siloviki” ( A silovik is a person who works in the Russian Armed Forces, the Russian national police, FSB political police, GRU, the Foreign Intelligence Service, the Federal Protective Service etc). Hitler actions destroyed Germany, Putin’s (so far) have “saved” Russia. Many histories speak of the Nazi “collapse into autarchy” as markets were closed to Germany but of the 30 or so raw materials required for modern industry, Nazi Germany had only two, coal and potash. This is not the case with Russia, as we all know. Russia is well placed to stand a siege.

  • Tatyana

    I see some amazing selective vision, or, is it a sort of screen shield? I imagine a special military technology, like Polaroid glass, it only lets through what fits in the narrative, leaving unconvinient facts outside focus 🙂

    OK, I’ve finished translating. Steve Rosenberg and Alexander Grigoryevich Lukashenko, the President of Belarus. February 16, 2022.

    – Alexander Grigoryevich, a year ago the Russian army invaded Ukraine, including from the territory of Belarus. Are you ready to do it again if the President of Russia asks?

    – At first, briefly, yes, I’m ready. Then, listen to me, don’t cut out the phrase, (*I’ll explain) just so you understand my reaction. I have already conveyed this point of view to high-ranking officials who wear shoulder straps in the Western world, I will not name names. I’m ready, and not just to provide (* the territory), but together with the Russians to fight from the territory of Belarus only in one case so far – if at least one soldier from there with a gun comes to our territory to kill my people. If from the territory of Ukraine – you are talking about Ukraine, right? (*Steve nods his head) it’s not just about Ukraine, it’s about our other neighbors as well – if they commit aggression against Belarus, the response will be brutal. Brutal. And the type of war will change significantly.

    – But there was no threat from Ukraine a year ago.

    – You listened to me inattentively, and you don’t know the situation well. I spoke about it. Where was the attack on our territory prepared from? These are four positions of multiple launch rocket systems that practically covered the industrial cities of our country, from Gomel to Brest. These were deliberate actions by the Ukraine, I just don’t know why they needed it. In the first minutes of the operation those were hit from Belarus territory. It happened right before the start in the morning.
    Secondly, do you know who imposed sanctions against us, back in 2020, before the start of the SMO? Who imposed sanctions first? Not the USA, not the nasty Anglo-Saxons, not Western Europe. Regretfully, our native Ukraine. Closed the sky. Started provoking. Etc, etc. Already then they began to train bandits, militants against Belarus, and now this process continues.
    Your “subjects” say that the Minsk agreements, which were made here (*in Minsk, the capital city of Belarus) were … sort of a fraud.
    (*deceived) Russia, but also us, those who wanted peace. It was simply to prepare the Ukrainian army for war.
    Haven’t you heard this? You have. It’s a fact.

    I come to the second (subject). You say ‘invasion’. I don’t think it’s an invasion.
    Question. Rhetorical. It’s just that when I assess the situation, I ask myself: Why did the Ukrainian authorities begin to choke Russians and Russian-speakers in Ukraine and Donbass? Why were they beaten, killed, and the like? After all, these events in the Donbas were not started by Putin or Russia. It started as an internal indignation in Ukraine itself.
    The impetus for this was given by the Maidan and the flight, the departure of Yanukovych at that moment to the Donbass. He went there to restore order in Ukraine from the Donbass. This is where it all started. Why blaming Putin? Why blaming Russia? The Ukrainian authorities provoked this operation with such actions, I have named only a few. It was then necessary to negotiate with Russia that there would be no such war. But everything was aimed – I repeat, including even the Minsk agreements – everything was aimed at unleashing a war. Ukraine was just an excuse to start this war, just an excuse.
    This is what the USA and someone in Western Europe wanted, now they are of course sobered up. They pushed Ukraine to this war. Well, they got this war. Why call it an invasion. There was no invasion, I think. You consider this an invasion, but I believe that this is the protection of the interests of Russia and the people who lived there, the Russian people.

    – Was it worth launching a special military operation?

    – From the point of view that you increased the fighting and prepared Ukraine for war, it was worth it. I have the same question for you, was it worth starting a war, or would it be better to give the security guarantees to Russia that she requested from you, on paper. What is this document? Nothing. We are now sure that for you, for the West, for America, this is insignificant. But then Russia and Putin demanded that you give at least a written document, security guarantees that no aggression against Russia would be committed from Ukraine or from Europe that is nearby. And in order for Russia to be convinced of this, you had to confirm that you would never introduce either nuclear weapons or long-range missile units into the territory of Ukraine. Question: why didn’t you give them paper? Why? Because you didn’t need the paper. You needed a war. You needed it. Russia was forced by such actions to ensure its security. A little more time will pass and I’ll be able to say: to ensure its security and also Ukraine’s.
    I mean your plan to chop off Western Ukraine with the hands of the Poles. But it will be a fight to the fullest. Then you will not ask me questions whether we will attack from the territory of Belarus or not. You accuse Russia of intention to tear off a piece of Eastern Ukraine, but in fact it is you who want to dismember Ukraine with the hands of the Poles. Those will be really big events. Masks will be pulled down to the waist.
    Do you want peace in Ukraine? Let’s start talking about peace tomorrow, and the guns stop firing. But you don’t want that. You are the ones who don’t want it. You will hop to the point that the military will come to Kiev and twist off the heads of politicians, including Zelensky. Ukrainian military, they will come to Kiev and put everything in its right place, because they are in the meat grinder there.
    While you run around Europe and, accompanied by applause, ask for weapons, fighters and so on. You are responsible for the escalation. Today, the people you mentioned are dying.
    Let’s stop this. Come on, now we have everything for this. But, no, you don’t want this. And it’s even wrong to say “you”, because Europe is ready for this, Europe wants it, it knows what the consequences could be. The Americans do not want this, they have bent Europe, put it in a pose and do with it whatever they want. That’s the situation.
    And you ask some questions, whether there will be aggression from Belarus… Well, I have already answered this a thousand times! We are peaceful people, we know what war is, we don’t want war, and in no case do we intend to send our troops into Ukraine, if only you commit aggression against Belarus from there. That simple. This is my answer. I answered you long ago I adhere to this position.
    Also, don’t forget that Russia is our ally. Legally, morally, politically, whatever. We are two peoples raised from the same root. In the military aspect, we are legally connected with Russia by a treaty. Don’t you know that? We have a joint group of military for action, but Russia never asked me to start a war against Ukraine together. Russia is well aware that I have a lot of problems, near Brest, Grodno and the northern regions bordering Lithuania.
    And here you are, as you say, insider information, intelligence data: you want to draw Belarus into the war, you dream that we cross the border of Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania. Why? Because if we get involved in the war, then the front line will increase by 2,000 kilometers. Correct calculation, but meaningless, stupid. We won’t give you that chance.
    But if you dare to set foot on our soil, the response will be terrible, Westerners know what it will be and with what weapons.
    Then you will not talk * disparagingly about the army of Belarus. Our army is 75,000 in peacetime, but if you dare to fight with us, we deploy an army of half a million.
    Nobody wants a war. As today there’s no such aggression, expansion, let’s negotiate peace. The East is ready for it, if you are ready. I say “if” because I know that it’s not simply that you are not ready, but for you it will be a terrible tragedy, a catastrophe if peace negotiations begin now. You need a war. You are starting to send your military there little by little. More than 20,000 mercenaries are fighting there, outsiders.
    How many people did Lukashenko send there? How many? Zero. And you reproach me? I don’t send people there and I don’t intend to.
    You, Steve, asked me in what case will I be ready to do this? I answered you honestly and sincerely. That’s all.”

    How much of that did Steve bring to his audience?

    • John Kinsella

      Hi Tatyana.
      Putin Minor’s rant is interesting all right.
      But he chooses to ignore the fact that he permitted the Putin regime to attack Northern Ukraine from Belarus territory.
      Putin Minor’s military is insignificant, he has invested instead in the secret police and uniformed thugs.
      But permitting an ally (master) to attack a neighbour from your own territory is an act of war.

      Don’t you agree?

      All the best,

      • Jack


        Since Ukraine have attacked Donbas for many years, they could call upon their allies (Belarus) to aid them of course.

        Do you propose Syria have the right to strike the UK since UK send their fighter jets some years ago bombing Syria? Is that not an “act of war”?

        • John Kinsella

          Hi Jack.

          The Russian attack from Belarus on Kyiv was not a Belarus attack on Kyiv.

          And of course Donbas was not and is not a sovereign.

          So had no “allies”.

          So I’m going to say that you are talking rhubarb…

          All the best,

          • Jack


            Donbas region declared their independence years ago actually, look it up, and they are allied with Russia and Belarus.

            Did you read my post too quickly perhaps? Look again, I had a question on Syria for you.

        • John Kinsella

          Hi Jack.
          I think that you are deflecting from my comments re Belarus by moving to a discussion about Syria.

          You seem to accept that Belarus permitted Russian troops to attack Kyiv from Belarus territory.

          And presumably approve?

          But Putin Minor threatens blood curdling consequences if Ukraine retaliates.

          And that’s ok with you too?

          All the best,

          • Jack

            Thanks for the response, you know, by not adressing my question to you (s…y…r…i…a), is a reply in itself.

            All the best Johnny

          • Goose

            John Kinsella

            Being self-righteous may make you feel good about yourself and your arguments. But do you really think there’s a victory to be had, and Russia can be defeated and humiliated without unpredictable results unfolding?

            Look at history, and previous attempts to impose victor’s justice. The Treaty of Versailles 1919 and the reparations imposed on Germany were driven by exactly the same priggish mentality. They created a fertile ground in Germany for Hitler’s arguments, of a great leadership betrayal, and then the rise of fascism.

            Today’s WEF mentored leaders, are stupid enough to repeat history’s greatest mistake with Russia. Russia is too big and too proud to be humiliated, they won’t be cowed by London and Washington, with or without Putin at the helm.

          • Goose

            Russia must be held accountable after war, says Estonia’s PM

            Another urging the Treaty of Versailles redux.

            I watched Kaja Kallas being interviewed on Channel 4 news not long since ,and her hatred of Russia is most unhealthy. Did Russian soldiers shoot her pet cat, or something? She reminds me of Jens Stoltenberg, maybe it’s not Russian interference people need to worry about?

            On Blinken’s warning to China about providing Russia weapons. China could sell to any of numerous countries, who could then sell on to Russia. Just as India is making a killing, by refining and repackaging Russian oil, then selling it to Europe as Indian oil. Gotta admire India’s entrepreneurialism really.

          • Tatyana

            Goose, Ms. Kallas is of same bunch as Mr. Borrell. Borell talked about garden and jungle, Kallas said they close the border and stop admitting people from Russia, because Estonia is the EU and visiting it is a privelege 🙂
            Have you ever been to Estonia? 🙂 If not, consider visiting it, you may then boast to your friends of belonging to a privileged minority 🙂

            In all this one and the same idea comes through – that there are people who consider themselves superior to others. I believe that the Ukrainian people were bribed with this, they were inspired to believe that they would be admitted into a “privileged society.” I know that Eastern Slavs are traditionally seen as inferior people, so for Ukraine the payment is a vivid demonstration of hatred for Russia. Like for Poland and Baltic states.
            Philosophically, children seek approval from adults, teenagers seek approval from their fellows, and adults seek approval from their own conscience. I can’t stop looking at the European Union as a bunch of stupid and infantile politicians, none of whom is capable of taking responsibility for their people and for our common future on this piece of land.

          • Goose

            Yeah, she came across as really smug and arrogant, self-satisfied, constantly grinning inappropriately, like Ursula von der Leyen in Kyiv, or Annalena Baerbock with her boyfriend Anthony Blinken. As if not understanding the appropriate social norms and mannerisms, given the seriousness of the situation.

            It’s bizarre, given the fact without NATO, these Baltic countries would have to keep their bellicosity in check. Poland and Estonia are like yapping dogs of war. But if war comes they’ll expect everyone to rush to their aid and if necessary die for them.

            Remember we were never asked in referenda if we wanted to expand Nato – it just happened – no one in the UK, Netherlands, France , Germany, Italy voted for it. The people pushing NATO expansion are terrified to have citizens vote, because of experiences like this : Dutch referendum voters overwhelmingly reject closer EU links to Ukraine.

          • Goose


            Some of these countries obviously have deep unresolved historical enmities with Russia, dating way back. Enmities that may well be justified; they were occupied and then behind the Iron Curtain from 1945 until the end of the Cold War in 1991. Russophobia is part of their political culture.

            Those of us in Western European countries can’t fully understand this animosity, because it’s not our historical experience. In my opinion, it was wrong to bring them into NATO, because they view NATO, as being akin to having the biggest, baddest bully on their side. Add to this the fact, the US is stirring up trouble, and it’s an explosive mix. These leaders act like they’ve got historic scores to settle..

          • Tatyana

            about old unresolved historical enmities – here you hit the bull’s-eye. I’ll be pretty rude, I apologize for that in advance.
            I’m shocked at how old people impose their unresolved problems on younger generations!
            Hello! It’s in the past! When you were young and full of energy, you did not fulfill your plans. Time has passed!
            Please go retire!
            I don’t want to teach my son to hate your son for some sins of our grandfathers! Wars? Territories? Domination? Go to hell!
            If you’re hoping to see grandchildren, then please do shut up! It really reminds harmful fathers-in-law teaching life to a young family. Montagues and Capulets. Isn’t it obvious that we, the younger generation, need a safe space to carry and deliver grandchildren for you?
            This Biden thing, who let this mummy speak from a coffin? Brzezinski, Kissinger, Soros – who are all these people? Why won’t covid take them? They are poisoning our lives. Come on, zombies, we want to finally have time of our lives!
            This is not our war. We didn’t want this. We didn’t ask for this.
            Ukraine, it hurts. We went our separate ways, respecting each other’s experience, until Nuland came to Maidan with her poisonous cookies on behalf of her half-dead patron.
            I still mourn veteran and patriot Ashley Babbit, even if my American friends have forgotten her. I can’t get my head around how it was possible to shoot a veteran and patriot of the country, who came to demand transparency in the elections? I respect folks of the USA, but how did they swallow it? You know, the United States is a relatively young state, not burdened by centuries of history and traditions. They are truly an example of how a society could build a state for the people. Nothing could shake my faith in their high principles more than the murder of Ashley Babbit.
            I do wish old people just retire at (what’s the retirement age in wild nature?) well, or at least legislatively prohibit the spread of any revanchist ideas. Too old to fight on your own? Retire and finally let the young ones live their own lives.
            Thank you and sorry.

    • Goose


      I do think the US and UK diplomatic approach to Russia over the last decade can be characterised as needlessly disrespectful and antagonistic. Russia should be given more respect.

      There’s lots of hostility for Russia in the UK right now, even among ordinary people. Pro Ukraine TV news propaganda; being pro-Ukraine is like the new political correctness. It’s mainly being whipped up by the media. They drag up Litvinenko, the Skripals – they repeat information from the intel agencies without even basic inquiry. Some of this stuff wouldn’t stand up to scrutiny as Craig’s highlighted.

      Most folks posting here, with the notable exception of dear old John K, probably instinctively distrust anything sourced from intel agencies. What obligation do these people have to tell the truth? They’ll never be held accountable for lying. These agencies have a long history of lying and distortions, Pompeo even boasted they had whole courses dedicated to it at the CIA. It’s all a game to these people, building hostility against geopolitical rivals by any means necessary.

      • John Kinsella

        Hi Goose and thank you for the affectionate reference.

        Despite the grey in my hair I suspect that I am one of the younger posters here, younger than the tankies at least.

        Though certainly not younger than Tatyana!

        FWIW I doubted the Skripal story, too many odd coincidences. The Chief Nurse of the British Army turning up to give the Skripals first aid was bizaare.

        Not to mention the Novichok on Skripal père’s doorknob…

        But some events are unarguable, like Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine. Or indeed his brutal treatment of his own people.

        All the best,
        your young friend, ?

    • Goose


      Silly Trump junior tweeted, posing questions as to whether the terrible Ohio train derailment and toxic release could be retaliation for NordStream. They’ve had 7 similar derailments. Look at the 3rd world state of rail lines in Ohio :

      Unbelievable. They can throw hundreds of billions of dollars at Ukraine, while vital infrastructure exists in that state, back home. Amazed the people don’t revolt. The US is one weird country.

      • Bramble

        No more weird than England. Our infrastructure is falling apart and war has been declared on all public services but we support austerity-promoting parties (that’s the Tories, blue, red and yellow alike) and the wretched proxy war. We are a carbon copy of the US (and just as indifferent to climate change as they are too). In 500 years, should humanity survive the collapse of capitalism, the truth may come out, but till then we live in a stew of propaganda and lies.

        • Goose

          Short-termism and maximising profits plagues both countries.
          It’s the Anglo-Saxon model of deregulated capitalism, it gives capitalism a bad name.

          The US defence budget is an utter absurdity. Any wild project gets billions thrown at it, while bridges fall down across the country and people struggle to pay for healthcare that Europeans take for granted. I’m honestly surprised people don’t rise up. Some of their politicians are grossly ill-informed too. Don’t get me wrong, I like the US, the US has some very smart talented people, geniuses in fact. But it also has a crap, corrupted two-party system, and some of the worst politicians in the west.

          There’s a recent-ish video on twitter of someone quizzing their Senator at an open meeting, he asks about Nordstream and Seymour Hersh’s report. The guy asks the Senator why he’s failed to carry out basic oversight, and failed to question. The Senator starts his reply by calling Nord Stream an OIL pipeline..

  • AG

    For those who are looking for a detailed but still concise reconstruction of the eve of the Ukraine War, you might wanna check Moon of Alabama blog from time to time.

    With 1 year past now the blogger is putting online day to day summaries of what was going on then in Ukraine/Russia on the domestic level, on the level of OSCE monitoring mission in Donbas and on the internat. level.

    You better do not get into the commentary section, which is an entirely different game. It will cost you hours to sort out the crazy from the sound.
    It is full of potential wisdom but that´s like looking in the haystack unless you already know what names to trust.

    (e.g. I have found out one of the commentators is working as a Ukrainian reporter and stringer I guess for foreign personnel from what that person said. Another one seems to have worked for the Clinton and Obama campaign. Someone else seems to be involved with BLM activism. etc.)

    These main articles are usually providing good sources for every important item in each piece via hyperlinks, as far as available.

    So it is not some fictional recount a la Stendhal about Napoleon where the novelist is the only authority.

    so far available:

    It starts with Febr. 13th 2022

    Febr 14th

    Febr 15th

    Febr 16th

    Febr. 17th

    Febr. 18th

  • John Kinsella

    Hi Jack.

    You said
    “Thanks for the response, you know, by not adressing my question to you (s…y…r…i…a), is a reply in itself.
    All the best Johnny”

    Re Syria – deflection.

    As to your signature, if you are being friendly you shouldn’t use the familiar form of a stranger’s name without permission.

    Or may we all address you as Jackie?

    All the best,

  • John Kinsella

    Hello Goose.

    You said that “Russia is too big and too proud to be humiliated, they won’t be cowed by London and Washington, with or without Putin at the helm.”

    Russia has a population of about 144 million, near to that of France and Germany combined.

    Far less than the USA (330+ million) and far far less than India or China.

    Even Pakistan at 213 million is far “bigger”.

    Not so big really except in area of frozen tundra. Unpopulated.

    And potentially threatened by China.

    As to Russia’s pride, what achievements do they have to be so proud of?

    Participation in the defeat of the Wehrmacht? Yes.

    But that was in collaboration with Ukraine, Belarus and the rest of the USSR.

    The USSR anthem had it as ” An unbreakable union of free republics,
    The Great Rus’ has sealed forever.”

    The Great Rus’ my arse.

    As to post Soviet Russia’s other reasons to be proud?

    We need to know.

    All the best,

        • Tatyana

          Are you out of your mind? In Russia, the Vlasovites were convicted, repressed and were not rehabilitated. And in Ukraine, they erect monuments to Bandera and teach schoolchildren to honor him as a national hero, while the monuments to the Red Army are being dismantled. In Estonia, a monument in honor of the liberation of Narva from the nazis, was removed . In Latvia, the annual parade of the SS legion. In Lockerbie, I heard they turned a former Nazi POW camp into a memorial.

          • John Kinsella

            Hi Tatyana.

            Vlasov & Bandera were both collaborators with Nazi Germany.

            Both nasty pieces of work. Though Bandera was a fascist, he no doubt believed that he was defending Ukraine.

            On the other hand, Vlasov raised armies of 100’s of thousands in Russia to fight for the Nazi’s.

            Who’d have thought that there were so many Nazi’s in Russia.

            Sad to say, there are plenty left, masquerading as right-wing Nationalists.

            The omnipresent (i Russia) Z symbol transforms very easily into the Nazi swastika – just rotate a Z through 90 degrees & superimpose over the original.

            It could be a coincidence of course.


            All the best,

          • Pears Morgaine

            Prior to 1941 the Soviet Union was officially an ally of Nazi Germany and in 1940 agreed to supply the Reich with $650 million in raw materials in return for an equivalent value of manufactured goods. The official communist party in the UK supported strikes during this period and urged its members to sabotage the British war effort.

  • GFL

    Very observant of you to notice that rotating the Z mark and superimposing over the original looks very much like a swastica, however, if you’re looking for swasticas just look at the shoulder flash of the Azov, a bit stylized but dam close. I think you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel now mate, but I’m sure you and your colleagues will come up with another load of old tosh!

    • John Kinsella

      Hi GFL.

      That’s rather my point.

      The Putin regime has literally iconised the letter Z into a sigil, a symbol of the regime, the military and the wider Russian State.

      You may agree that, especially when rotated and superimposed, it does create a swastika.

      I doubt if the regime’s propagandists noticed, or not in time at least.

      But the widespread adoption of the Z sigil/rune shows a remarkable lack of historical awareness of Nazi symbology among the regime’s leadership.

      And (once they noticed, as assuredly they did) an indifference to outside opinion that tells its own story.

      As for the Azov battalion, they seem to have also adopted “Nordic” runes but not as reminiscent of Nazi symbology as the Putin regime’s.

      The photo of the school children shivering in the snow while forming the Z sign outside a hospice (see really sums up the callous brutality of Putin’s police state.

      Or perhaps the children volunteered to help the war effort?

      All the best,

  • Merethe

    As a Norwegian, I am afraid I am not very surprised about alleged Norwegian involvement: the Norwegian government always wanted to be “teacher’s pet” as we call it; ie do what “the authorities” (read: the US) wanted them to do.

    One thing, though: I don’t think the financial aspect was that important; Norway was wading in money, even without this last windfall. See:

    And I am very sorry to report: the Hersh story has been silenced in Norway, too.

    And as Russia through this last year has answered each thing the West/Ukraine has done (Public interviewing POV, bombing infrastructure, using cluster-bombs) by doing the same, this has, IMO, greatly endangered Norway’s own pipe-lines to the continent. If I had been a Russian leader, my thinking would have been: If they can blow up our pipe-line, why shouldn’t we blow up theirs?

    • John Kinsella

      Hi Merethe.

      You seem to assume that S Hersh’s account is true.

      We appear to have no evidence other than SH’s anonymous informant.

      All the best,

      • Pigeon English

        But without any evidence or even logical explanation we blamed Russia with a straight face instead of laughter. I am split between Chinese, Iranians, and ISIS.
        My understanding is that Merethe would not be surprised by Norwegian involvement but not for a Financial gain.

        Yesterday you asked

        “As to post Soviet Russia’s other reasons to be proud? ”

        IMO this question is at best ridiculous and at worst Russo-phobic.

        What are your reasons to be proud of Ireland or USA or UK in last 30 years ?

      • Merethe

        I did write “alleged Norwegian involvement”. Do you remember the shooting down of the US spy-plane; U2, in 1960? It was supposed to land at Bodø, northern Norway; the Americans had a base there, totally against Norwegian law. I recall my father laughing when he told me; “everybody lied then, from the cleaning ladies to the Prime Minister”. All of them were saying that the plane was not supposed to land in Bodø.

    • AG


      I would think, eye for an eye is just not theirs.
      Russians are quite square and reliable. They keep to the deals.

      The crazy success of Western propaganda was that to picture the Russians as the absolute opposite has become standard and beyond question.

      In fact this is a problem of historic proportions well beyond this war.

      the fear and the prejudice against all things Russian has been accompanying us in the West for decades (as of 1917) and centuries (as of the uncivilized Russian, Cossacks etc.)

      That Russian per se is bad, lying, beastly, in-human, and in-humane, and not capable of rationale thinking, is deeply ingrained in Western intellectual culture. And by that I mean of the highest academic order.

      Think of the masses of quasi-fascist writings of famed philosophical writers and academics describing now Russia as something outside of civilization. (Whereas they were part of soccer championships just 2 or 3 years ago.)

      This would be pure Chomskyite view, which in recent years I have absolutely learned to chersih again (you can well disagree), and it also applies to Arabs.

      In fact two groups are left who can be punished without moral consequences – Arabs and Russians. Because they are “untermenschen”.

      Of course this word is totally out of fashion.

      But what it stands for is as applicable as it was against other groups decades ago.
      The concept is totally modern.

      Just look into popular culture, that is movies and series – there you see it clearly: What kinds of typical characters are there for Arabs and Russians?

      To denounce PoC is forbidden now after 500 years of struggle. The Asians we are afraid of and they are somewhat otherwordly (and too important for our self-interest). So you may pester Russians and Arabs. Why? Because they don´t follow our rules.

      So, it´s just the good old colonial discourse again in different clothing.

    • Pears Morgaine

      Unless I’m very much mistaken that link shows the wealth fund is losing money as it did throughout 2022, $174 billion in the first six months alone.

      Think of all the Leopard tanks and F16s that could’ve bought.

      • Merethe

        Look at the value in kroner (that is after all the value here): it has increased. But anyway, my point was: Norway is super-rich; any involvement with the blowing-up of Nord Stream would stem from a strong will (in most of our politicians/military) to please the Americans; and not from any pecuniary motive.

        • John Kinsella

          Hi Merethe.
          Does the Norwegian State and military have sufficiently tight control over *all* media outlets to prevent information about the alleged Norwegian complicity in the pipeline bombing from emerging?

          No Norwegian bloggers spilling the beans?


          • Merethe

            Hi John Kinsella
            That is one thing that has surprised me the most: even left-wing media basically only shouts “more bombs!” Never in my life-time have I seen such a “conformity” in all the main media.

            The Hersh article has only been mentioned in the extreme left ( and extreme right wing ( publications. Those two publications are not associated with any of the political parties in the Parliament; they are too left/right-wing.

   (=”the class fight”) has also mentioned it (once), that is the newspaper associated with the “Red” party; the party in the Parliament furthest to the left.

  • AG

    re: Churchill and German resistance

    since this too has been discussed here and as I bumped into it in my bottomless and chaotic archive:

    “Churchill, British Intelligence, and the German Opposition Question”

    P.R.J. Winter

    War in History 2007 14 (1). 109-112

    The article is longer but following abstract:

    “In a previous article, ‘British Intelligence and the July Bomb Plot of 1944: A Reappraisal’, it was recorded that in 1949 Winston Churchill had stated to a surviving member of the German opposition that ‘during the war he had been misled by his assistants about the considerable strength and size of the German anti-Hitler resistance’. It also highlighted the fact that historians have argued consistently that the July bomb plot and its antecedents represented ‘an embarrassing failure by British intelligence’ due to an alleged inability to warn its political ‘consumers’ of a developing anti-Hitler conspiracy within the Third Reich. New evidence has now surfaced proving categorically that British intelligence informed Churchill not only of the potential strength of the German army opposition, but also of its determination to overthrow Hitler and his Nazi cohorts by means of a coup d’état. The present article argues that this fresh evidence, in the shape of PREM 7/7, consigns, once and for all, these accusations against British intelligence to the dustbin of history.(…)”

  • Tatyana

    I can’t stop laughing when I see someone teaching me the history of my own country! It’s so absurd it’s not even stupid.
    My great-grandfather had a brother. In the civil war (between the Revolution and WW2), one of them fought for the Red movement, aka the Bolsheviks, and the second for the White movement (Vlasovites from there). The White movement sought to return everything from the tsarist regime – the monarchy, privileges for the rich, the aristocracy and the clergy. Military officers in that time were from the privileged classes.
    The White movement – their ideology coincided with Hitler’s concept of Ubermensch v Untermensch. But even if their goals coincided with the Wehrmacht, the Vlasovites were not part of the Wehrmacht, either legally or in fact.
    Modern Russia does not make them heroes.
    Modern Ukraine adopts Edelweiss and crossed axes insignia for mountain infantry.

    I don’t know why Z is more popular with you, probably because the name Zelensky begins with this letter.
    The Russians used the sign V for Vostok (East), and the sign Z for Zapad (West).
    If you superimpose V over Z, it looks like the Yves Saint Laurent logo 🙂 Think about it! 🙂

    • John Kinsella

      Hi Tatyana.
      Why in your opinion has the Russian State adopted the Z letter/sigil as a symbol of loyalty to the regime?
      Those little children in the photo from the BBC link surely didn’t pick the letter at random.
      Russia has been led into a dark place by Putin and his gang IMO.

      All the best,

      • Tatyana

        Your abundant questions here in the discussions amuse me immensely! “Promotion in Social Media” tutorial – always end your message with a question 🙂

        Before discussing Russian children, let’s discuss Ukrainian military. Why did the Azov battalion take Wolfsangel on its banner, and why is it the same emblem of the SS division “Reich”, SS Division „Landstorm Nederland”, SS 4 Polizei Division, Wehrmacht Brigade Kreta, and one of tank divisions of Wehrmacht.
        How does this reflect the ideology of the Azov Battalion, which even the US Congress described as Nazi and banned their funding. And was it not for Nazi motives that they terrorized the Donbass? I find many confirmations of this among the people who fled to Russia.
        How do you feel about the fact that the Ukrainian regime has incorporated this shit into its army?
        Do you think that such people should be given weapons and allowed to promote their ideology through violence?
        Do you think the Ukrainian regime supports this ideology, or are the Nazis holding them hostage with threats of reprisals?
        Do you think that the glorification of Nazi collaborators in Ukraine and the vote on the resolution on Nazism at the UN are not connected?
        What do Ukrainian refugees in Ireland say about this?

        • John Kinsella

          Hi Tatyana.
          Your abundant questions here in the discussions amuse me immensely too! ?

          Deflection I suppose.

          You answer my question re Z and I’ll answer yours re Azov Battalion.

          Why in your opinion has the Russian State adopted the Z letter/sigil as a symbol of loyalty to the regime?

          (We could go on to discuss the Nazi symbols and behaviour associated with the Russkiy regime supported Wagner group I suppose but I’ll wait for your reply to my Z question….)

          All the best,

    • AG


      well that tells you something about YSL 😉 (and Nazi schick in oldstyle Hollywood war movies. I might even think of Visconti now that you mention this…and the finale of “Jojo Rabbit” which i thought as weak until the last act started.)

      What you say about White-Red in your family is a great story. Perhaps you could tell us more about that.

      The Civil War in itself I know mainly through the Nikita Mikhalkov movie works (how is he btw?) and some exile-literature.

      – in Germany they started to re-publish the collected works of Gaito Gazdanov who lived in inter-war Paris as a taxi-driver/writer always short of cash. After WWII he ended up with Radio Liberty in Munich. There he died in 1971.

      Originally Gazdanov as a young lad had been fighting in one of the White Armies until he fled to Paris.

      His experience in the war naturally informed his novels and short storis.

      In one of his books I think Gazdanov touches on a fascinating true conspiracy in Paris:

      NKDV spies had infiltrated the White Anti-Communists who planned to overthrow Stalin.

      In fact there were some serious plans between the emigré groups going on in Paris and Berlin to invade Russia even after the Civil War had been lost.

      One of the Whites´ leading general was eventually killed in Paris as a result of the conspiracy.

      This material was also used by Nabokov in a short story if I am not mistaken (read it long ago).

      In fact renown psychoanalyst Max Eitington, a student of Sigmund Freud´s, was allegedly a spy working for NKVD.
      He was working as a psychoanalyst very popular with rich ladies in Paris.

      Eitington used his intimate knowledge to help the nasty NKVD efforts of course violating doctor-patient privilege…

      New York Review of Books had a long and interesting exchange of letters on this subject in 1988, if interested here:

      “The Mystery of Max Eitingon’: An Exchange – Stephen Schwartz, Vitaly Rapoport, and Walter Laqueur, reply by Theodore H. Draper”:

      The story about the NKVD conspiracy in Paris was used by French director Eric Rohmer for his “Triple Agent”. Of course a film meant probably for 100 people only. Because it is the absolute opposite of what you would expect from that kind of material in a fiction film.

      But Rohmer was not an industry director.

      A lot of (Anti-Communist) emigrés got stuck in Munich after WWII.

      I wonder if Gasdanov had any contact to Bandera???

      • Tatyana

        I’ve been having fun with this all day! Strange that YSL came to my mind, when the Louis Vuitton logo is just one dash short of a combined Z and V monogram!
        You won’t believe it, but the Opel logo hints at Putin’s support! Hyundai too, just rotate it 90 degrees 🙂
        Mazda and Infiniti probably consider themselves smart by flipping the V sign, ha ha 🙂
        Citroen believes that smart people who guessed Mazda and Infiniti will certainly not guess their two flipped letters V.
        Look at the Volkswagen logo, two V’s superimposed, AND! if you cut that into individual dashes, rotated some of them 90 degrees, then put them back together in a certain order, then I’m sure you could get not only a swastika, but a damn Rubik’s cube!

        Did I tell you that in addition to Z for Zapad and V for Vostok, there was also the designation of the Center group with a circle sign?
        Here comes Audi and Olympic Games! Putin’s agents, they are everywhere! Beware of circles and stay safe 🙂

  • AG

    Yves Smith at “naked capitalism” on Putin speech, not yet updated I think:

    2 comments on speech from Moon of Alabama readers:

    “I don’t speak Russian , so I’m unable to confirm the accuracy of the BBC translation. What I can confirm is that the BBC used a translator with a risible accent similar to the UK/ German comedian Henning Wehn. With unflattering editing it’s all part of a BBC strategy to make Putin appear ridiculous and portray him as unhinged to the UK bewildered herd, so as to justify further escalation.

    Many people have described the speech as unremarkable. I think that was by design, as if to say ‘life goes on in Russia, we can grind down the Ukraininian proxies of NATO, while improving infrastructure and giving targeted tax breaks’.

    The ‘rhetoric’ that UK politicians can merely dream about, as our mortgages double, energy costs are quadrupled in the past two years and the tax burden on ordinary UK citizens reaches record high levels.

    Stop the war and it’s myriad adverse effects to ordinary people. Demand a negotiated peace now.”

    “Currently listening to comments on BBC Radio about Putin’s and Biden’s speeches. It is like living in a parallel universe. One “Professor of Politics” actually commented the unconditional surrender was a good thing to try to impose on Russia. The western MSM (based on this broadcast at least) completely rejects the notion that Russia had a causus belli, and that the Ukrainianians might be about to lose this war. Putin bad and mad, Biden good and coherent. Reducing geo-politics to sound bites.

    The radio debate is about what the end of the war might look like. Hmmm… let me think. Tough one….

    Priming western public opinion to accept less than total victory?? Who knows? I think that the western public may be very disappointed.”

    • Pigeon English

      IMHO it was pretty good speech addressing many issues and as usually explaining the background.
      I did not like when he started talking about “family values” (gay marriage etc. and even claiming/implying that the West normalized pedophilia)

      It was running in my background through live stream on

      I believe translated by RT.

  • AG

    as addendum,

    a new commentary by former NYT foreign correspondent, Stephen Kinzer (no radical leftist by all means) just an “ordinary” former war correspondent:

    ” Putin & Zelensky: Sinners and saints who fit our historic narrative – Think about why the West wants to invoke WWII and the Cold War here, and then ask whether it’s been productive.”

    “The unwillingness of most war correspondents to cover the Ukraine War from both sides is reflected on editorial and op-ed pages. No major newspaper appears to pose fundamental questions about this war.  

    Is Putin justified in not wanting enemy bases on his border? Should we contribute to the death of thousands in order to make a political point? Did we help provoke the war? How much of Ukraine’s army is pro-Nazi? Why does it matter to the United States where the border of Donbas is drawn? Should we consider Ukraine’s reputation as one of the world’s most corrupt countries before sending it huge amounts of aid? Is this conflict really a titanic showdown between democracy and autocracy, or just another European brushfire?”

    • Rosemary MacKenzie

      Putin’s speech is on the President of Russia website – only partly translated into English at this point.

      All Putin’s speeches, press conferences, meetings are here. Worth keeping an eye on if you have the time.

      • Tatyana

        Rosemary, I send you my warm regards and I hope you are doing well. Thank you for reading the speech in its original source. I’m usually too bored to listen to long speeches, but with your reminder I feel like reading it, in English, it adds linguistic interest, so making it less boring.
        I had a look into our news today and all that got my attention was:
        “the more long-range weapons they bring, the further we will have to push away the border”.
        I think that sums up the whole of the speech.

        • Tatyana

          “Putin announced the suspension of Russia’s participation in the current Strategic Arms Treaty. We will immediately carry out full-scale tests of strategic nuclear weapons, if the US decides to flex its muscles a little. The icing on the cake of this message was information about putting new strategic weapons on combat duty. Well, if the West will provide Ukraine with more and more long-range weapons systems, then we will have to move more and more further west. Everything is simple.”

          I find it f*cking scary. To be or not to be, sort of.

          • John Kinsella

            Hi Tatyana.

            Putin is yet again using Russia’s nukes to “persuade” the Zapod to give him what he wants.

            Someday China will “persuade” Russia to yield E Siberia to China.

            Using nukes as leverage.


            All the best,

          • AG


            here, if interested, quick first reactions on the NewSTART issue:

            – Pavel Podvig, Geneva Prof. & UN (I think)

            – Andrey Baklitskiy

            – Hans Kristensen from the Federation of American Scientists

          • Rosemary MacKenzie

            Tatyana, I find it effing scary too, but I am old and find it mostly sad. I’m parroting Scott Ritter here, I think, but I want this war to end now, and the carnage of Ukraine to end now. This war isnt about Ukraine, it’s about the US and NATO wanting to finish off Russia for some unknowable reason. It won’t happen. Russia will win this war. Russia didn’t start it, and didn’t want it. Russia did everything in its power to avert it by diplomacy, but the US and Nato weren’t having it. The US and Nato with the west lied and denied and broke every agreement they ever had with Russia so there won’t be a negotiated end because Russia will never trust the bastards again quite understandably. Russia has to get rid of this existential threat, and most of the world understands this – most of the world is either sympathetic towards Russia or neutral. It’s only the US, Nato and the west causing the trouble and escalating the carnage. Fortunately, they are running out of weaponry and sadly Ukraine is running out of people. This war will end soon. Your boy will not be involved in it, I’m sure of that. I have the utmost respect for Russia and the way in which it has conducted itself and this horrible war. Russia has minimized casualties as much as possible and contained the conflict as much as possible. If the world – probably not the US, Nato and the west – gets behind China’s Global Security Initiative we may have some hope of containing the US. I hope Nato dies and Europe, Canada etc come to their senses because I don’t want to live in a country with a leadership too immature to understand the danger of aggression, I’d like to see it grow up before I die.

  • John Kinsella

    Hi Rosemary MacKenzie.

    Forgive me but you make a lot of (in my opinion) unsupported assertions in your long post.

    “Russia will win this war. Russia didn’t start it, and didn’t want it. Russia did everything in its power to avert it by diplomacy, but the US and Nato weren’t having it.”

    I’m afraid that Russia did start the war in February 2022. Simply asserting the opposite is Orwellian Newspeak.
    “War is Peace”, “Ignorance is Strength”, “Freedom is Slavery”.

    Some of us still remember the Katyn Massacre by the Stalin regime of the Polish officers and intelligentsia in 1940. Nearly 22,000 murdered by the NKVD. The Nazis had no monopoly on mass murder.

    How long before the Putin regime reverts to the Stalinist policy of denying that the massacre took place?

    Your reassurance to Tatyana “This war will end soon. Your boy will not be involved in it, I’m sure of that.” is kind but also wishful thinking. Russian boys are being conscripted into the Russian military in their hundreds of thousands.

    Why not middle class boys living in Moscow or St Petersburg?

    All the best,

    • Crispa

      “The Nazis had no monopoly on mass murder”.
      True. Dresden bombing victims 25 000 – 35 000, Hiroshima 129, 000, Nagasaki 226 000.

    • Tatyana

      I feel much of unfriendly attention from you to my comments. Now it’s personal.
      You better not bring my son into it. He is underage, a schoolboy and I cannot remember I ever invited you to say something about my child.
      Dear Moderators, can I please ask to stop this? I really don’t want another John Pretty case again.

        • Tatyana

          Rosemary, you are my friend, I am convinced of your kind attitude and absolutely appreciate your encouragement and greetings, in any place where we communicate. In this disturbing nervous situation, such words flying to Russia from other countries are valuable.
          The problem is, I don’t expect John to be as friendly. He has already expressed several views that are unacceptable to me.

      • John Kinsella

        Hello Rosemary.

        No I am no troll.

        I post here under my own name and make no effort to hide my identity.

        I strongly support Scottish independence and posted here long before the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

        Since the invasion I have been disappointed by the preponderance of posters here apparently sympathetic to the Putin regime.

        I felt that there was something to be said on the other side of the argument.

        And yes to challenge the (in my opinion) flawed reasoning behind some support for Putin.

        And of course I did not and never will make any comment on any poster’s family.

        All the best,

        • Pigeon English

          “I post here under my own name and make no effort to hide my identity.” claims JK. How do we know?

          Did you provide documents to verify your identity? Once you leave I will be John Kinsela (yes, with one L to trick the Mods) from N Ireland. Most of us post in a good faith and believe in debate and yet you asked people to apologize for calling you Orange. You never withdraw your unfounded suspicion that I am Russian even after explanation why I have problems with a fuc -king articles. You hardly ever answer any Questions but pose them like a ” Sea-lion” ……

        • zoot

          yeah you work ‘in a small department in an Irish university’ iirc… the type of university that is happy for its staff to publicly post nonsense all day in full view of the students.
          they obviously consider old ‘John Kinsella’ to be absolutely irreplaceable!

          • Lapsed Agnostic

            I doubt whether most universities in the EU and the UK would have much of a problem with their staff members expressing pro-Ukrainian – or even pro-Azov – views under their real names on blogs, zoot. If they were expressing pro-Russian ones on the other hand…

          • zoot

            i highly doubt that, even if the posts were much less prolific and infantile. the academic job market is such that. a figure like ‘John Kinsella’ would be replaced within days of their first offering being spotted.

    • mods-cm-org

      John Kinsella has already been warned privately about personalising discussions, and it’s time to make the warning public.

      A few years ago, a formerly resident troll was finally banned permanently for engaging in the same style of discourse. Similarities have been noted, and if necessary the same sanction can be applied here.

      John Kinsella, if you continue to interrogate specific commenters and personalise your criticisms, your comments will require checking and approval by moderators before becoming visible to other commenters. Another warning about the same issue will invoke a ban for escalating periods until a permanent exclusion is applied.

        • mods-cm-org

          @ John Kinsella – you don’t have an account, so it can’t be closed.

          Your unyielding recalcitrance offers a welcome counterweight in some respects and a clear target in others. Craig Murray is, in general, in favour of dissenting voices, so that would not be a reason for exclusion. (Ironically, in some cases your views are better aligned with those of our host than the prevailing commentariat’s.) You just need to cease the personal jibes.

        • Pigeon English

          Is this a Pathetic or Melodramatic comment?
          I aim to improve my English.

          “Pathetic” in Europe has very different connotation than in English.

          BTW have you heard expression “below the belt”?
          We all do but you “double down” (I can’t get used to this expression and for me it means the opposite: deescalating)
          MOD’s were very tolerant towards you IMO.

    • useless eater

      John Kinsella how many millions(?) , tens of millions(?), hundreds of millions(?) of people did the British Empire kill in its long and inglorious history? You do not know do you. Most of these people would have been non white , their lives worth less than dirt. I asked a local resident (a very old woman) in my area why conscription ceased in Britain, I had read all the history books and still had no idea. Quick as flash, without a moments thought she replied “Because they would not go any more, they all knew it meant mass killing”.

      The slave trade(20-40 million?), the Bengal Famine(3-22 million), making a 100 million Chinese or more into opium addicts(50 million?), the colonisation of Africa(5-25 million?),hunting Aborigines in Austalia for sport and fun and on and on it goes. It is like that Mitchell and Webb joke, “are we the baddies ?”. Yes we are the baddies. All these wannabes, amateurs like Hitler and Stalin and all the rest of the psychos were just aping our global genocide. I am not religious but those who operated the imperial machine were “the people of Gog and Magog” as mentioned in the bible.

      You winge about Russian killers or whoever. Putin may be a monster but our lot are worse,a difference in kind not degree. This is what you don’t seem to get. The Empire was built out of the lifeless corpse of hundreds of millions of people – just so a few could make money. The ones who weren’t killed, lived lives of indescribable misery and squalour for hundreds of years. Point scoring in matters of genocide is not “okay”, it is morally reprehensible. There is no hierarchy of suffering – at least, not to me.

      Right now, how many child slaves are working to make Putin’s Russia money, compared to the global corporations registered in London and New York? How many indigenous people in South America, the Philipines, Indonesia, the Middle East, Africa are being murdered so these corporations can post record profits for their SHAREHOLDERS? It is still going on. I have to stop, I’m having a serious panic attack.

  • AG

    in case this is inappropriate right now ignore. [ Mod: It is inappropriate – full articles which are freely available via a link should not be reproduced in their entirety here. The comments section is for comments, not copied articles. ]

    I post here from Moon of Alabama Blog, his second latest entry.
    May be it is more convenient to read it here. The only reason I posted the entire entry [ removed by mod ].

    the original is here:

    I think it is important to remind of these developments, because the media ignore and bury them in the long run until they have never taken place.

    Second, as in Berlin coming Friday a major demonstration will take place, it´s an “excuse” from my side 😉 to post here so explicitly.

    But whereas OSCE shelling statistics can be interpreted in various ways the statements made as quoted below, simply stand. Whether they are truth or lie is another matter. But then what can you believe.

    p.s. as to Johnson in Ukraine (he was there several times though – I remember a quarrel between Noam Chomsky and Stephen Shalon where the could not agree on the fact that Johnson did what he did as reported by the Ukraine Prawda.)

    It was a simple and clear agreement. But the top U.S. envoy in Ukraine tried to prevent Zelenski from implementing it.

    Multiple times along the line of events the Ukraine had tried to come to peace with Russia. Each time we know of the ‘West’, i.e. the U.S. and UK, successfully sabotaged the peace efforts.

    • AG

      ( @Mod: I meant by “inappropriate” rather OSCE politics being the wrong topic right after Tatyana´s and John´s emotional exchange on an important personal matter, that had just taken place before on this site.

      Had I been sure the text posted as whole was inappropriate as such I wouldn ´t have posted it in the first place. No need to keep you senselessly busy from my side.

      But this doesn´t get across from the way i formulated my message. )

  • Tatyana

    Well, a year ago, Russia proposed an agreement with NATO and asked for guarantees that NATO’s military activities in Ukraine were not directed against Russia. Our officials were ridiculed, I remember Stoltenberg was especially diligent in exercising wit.

    Previously, Russian inspectorates could observe Western military facilities, and Western delegations inspected Russian ones. (I’m not sure, but it is logical that the delegations inspected what intelligence paid attention to). This gave some assurance that unfounded suspicions could be spoken out and settled before conflict could flare up.

    Today Russia suspends the mutual arms control treaty.
    Ryabkov gave explanations – the Western bloc “forgets” to include the nuclear arsenals of France and UK in the lists of relevant weapons, confusing the accounts in every possible way.
    Last year the US hid about 500 warheads of various capacities, simply renaming them, arbitrarily changing the category and firmly refusing to allow Russian inspectors to check their real parameters. While they demand full and unhindered access to Russian arsenals and storage bases, including closed and secret ones.

    Putin stressed that we are not withdrawing from the agreement, but we are suspending it.

    In case John Kinsella stops by here.
    John, you remember I said that personal attack tactics don’t make me want to talk to you. You then justified that you applied derogatory words not to individuals, but used it in the plural, referring to the entire community (which I described as “a plan as reliable as a Swiss watch.”)
    You don’t like Putin. And suppose I don’t like the English king, then I’ll hang his portrait on the wall and start spitting on it every day. But I will not obsessively tug on the sleeve of everyone around me, demanding that they also spit on the portrait, otherwise I attack them.
    Moderators know how to express it more clearly and concisely. Here in Russia such a pattern of behavior is described as “You are all mentally ill and do not receive your treatment, I am the only smart one standing among you, beautiful, in a white coat.”
    I’m sure you could communicate your opinions in a more socially acceptable way.

    • AG

      hi T,

      “Last year the US hid about 500 warheads of various capacities, simply renaming them, arbitrarily changing the category and firmly refusing to allow Russian inspectors to check their real parameters. While they demand full and unhindered access to Russian arsenals and storage bases, including closed and secret ones”

      You got some official source may be?

      Important stuff.

      And those of us who have not done so yet – it´s time to do your PhD in nuclear physics (I hope here everyone has already caught up with her/his Ukrainian language skills.)

      oh, and a Masters in Russian & Eastern European history would be minimum for any party discussion.

        • AG

          hi T

          However I have to find confirmation from other sources on this, yet.

          The single phrase on this issue (re: 500 warheads) in this not very scientific article itself is unclear.
          (not intended as criticism for supplying the link of course.)

          – and these WMDs matters are complicated in detail.

          See as follows Scott Ritter´s interesting piece on New START

          (- however I would contradict Ritter´s general assessments concerning Russian nuclear superiority re: WMDs, which he claimed some time in January – I think he sometimes has his crazy moments – but this is not the subject of this particular item) –

          “SCOTT RITTER: Arms Control or Ukraine?”

          one major info, which has not been pointed out by anyone except Ritter – which is banal in itself as knowledge, because everyone SHOULD know it, its no secret, but has major consequences – and which is willingly ignored because completely and conveniently detached from NewSTART regulations – (these are the points that make Ritter´s texts important because so far no WMDs specialist in the West reminded of this little piece of diplomatic game-play):

          On March 9, 2022, the U.S., U.K. and European Union all passed sanctions which banned Russian aircraft form overflying their respective territories and placed visa restrictions on Russians transiting EU or the U.K. en route to the United States. According to the Russians, these restrictions effectively prohibit the dispatch of weapons-inspection teams to the U.S. using New START short-notice inspection protocols, which have strict treaty-mandated timelines attached to their implementation. (…)”

  • Tatyana

    Pigeon English,
    re. Putin’s speech, you said:
    “I did not like when he started talking about “family values” (gay marriage etc. and even claiming/implying that the West normalized pedophilia)”

    I copy the excerpt. You studied languages, perhaps you came across the concepts of ‘theme’ and ‘rheme’, aka the introductory part of the phrase and its main sense. This differs between languages, so I will put in bold ‘rhemes’, the parts perceived as the main sense for a native Russian speaker living in Russian culture.

    “…are conducting increasingly aggressive information attacks against us targeting primarily the younger generation. They never stop lying and distorting historical facts as they attack our culture, the Russian Orthodox Church and other traditional religious organizations in our country.
    Look what they are doing to their own people. It is all about the destruction of the family, of cultural and national identity, perversion and abuse of children, including pedophilia, all of which are declared normal in their life. They are forcing the priests to bless same-sex marriages. Bless their hearts, let them do as they please. Here is what I would like to say in this regard. Adult people can do as they please. We in Russia have always seen it that way and always will: no one is going to intrude into other people’s private lives, and we are not going to do it, either.
    /// some religious things ///
    “Millions of people in the West realise that they are being led to a spiritual disaster. Frankly, the elite appear to have gone crazy, and it looks like there is no cure for that. But like I said, these are their problems, while we must protect our children, which we will do. We will protect our children from degradation and degeneration.”

    • Tatyana

      Now, about normalizing pedophilia. I just want to show why this appears in our iformation bubble.
      Article in Russian Inosmi (foreign media observer), September 2020
      it covers the publication of the Bulgarian author Borislav Tsekov, some point from it:

      – along with the transgender person, the concept of a “trans-age” person appeared.

      – on August 17, 2011 in Baltimore, USA, a “scientific” symposium was held on the topic “Pedophilia, people with sexual attraction to children and the definition of mental disorders.” The keynote speaker was Fred Berlin of the Johns Hopkins University Clinic, founded by John Money, the guru of modern Lysenkoism, gender ideology, who argued that gender is not a matter of biology, but of personal choice. Mani himself became famous not only for changing the sex of a child, but also for the fact that he actively advocated the abolition of age restrictions on sexual contacts.
      The symposium was organized by B4U-ACT, a non-governmental organization whose official mission is the psychological support of pedophiles and their integration into society.

      – they are trying to normalize pedophilia according to the same algorithm as transgenderism. First, they want pedophilia to be removed from the catalog of mental disorders and recognized as a normal sexual orientation. They change the language and terminology: now they are talking not about pedophilia, but about “sexual attraction to children”, pedophiles are designated by the English abbreviation MAP (minor-attracted person), and their orientation is “pedosexual”, i.e. suggest that it can be equivalent to hetero- and homosexual. After pedophilia is equated with sexual orientation, it will fall under the protection of anti-discrimination legislation, and from there it is not far from full legalization.

      They give also some examples to prove their point:
      The New York Times, a feature article on October 5, 2014, “Pedophilia: A Disorder, Not a Crime” by Margot Kaplan – the sexual attraction to children is innate and natural, so it cannot be condemned as long as it is not associated with real abuse.

      TedX conference “Societies of the Future” on May 5, 2018 at the University of Würzburg, Germany, by Miriam Hein.

      August 2020, Hasbro launched a baby doll that has a button under the skirt in the intimate area, when pressed, the doll makes lustful sounds. That is, children from an early age have an understanding that such manipulations bring pleasure, and then the acceptance of what is absolutely normal if an adult does this with a child.

      The author concludes:
      “Along with the transgender person, the concept of a “trans-age” person appeared – a child locked in the body of an adult. His right “to be as he is” must be protected, they say. You don’t have to be a Delphic oracle to foresee that if once accepted “trans adults” are perceived as children, going to kindergartens with real children, and so on.”

    • Tatyana

      Russian media Vesti covers USA Today, January 2022
      Look at the names of reputable scientific institutions involved in the study!

      Balenciaga photo scandal where kids are combined with BDSM aesthetics, The American Conservative, November 2022

      The case of Jeffrey Epstein, who was suspected of organizing sex with minors for high-profile people, unexpectedly committed suicide in a prison cell. And now: “Arkansas cops rule suicide in death of Clinton aide linked to Jeffrey Epstein – who was found shot and tied to a tree with an electrical cord around his neck – despite no sign of weapon”

      I have given only some strokes in the overall picture, there are probably more. It looks like pedophilia is really being normalized at a high level, using scientific research, influencing the public through popular brand products, and there’s also talk of changing the law re. pedophiles. If we assume that high-ranking people in power are interested in such a law for personal reasons, then there can be no doubt that such a law may be lobbied.

      I don’t know if it’s true, but here in Russia the diaries of Biden’s daughter were also discussed, in which:
      ” president’s daughter recalled ‘showers w/ my dad (probably not appropriate)’ and details of her drug and sex addiction”

      In general, the Biden family is perceived as the First Family of the US, as if a model, the best that the country has.
      Given the revelations of Biden’s daughter and the story of Hunter Biden’s laptop, it’s not surprising that Putin believes (and the majority of the population supports him) that the US has no right to teach us about family relationships and the proper upbringing of our children. We distinguish between family values and sexual relations, these are different.

      • useless eater

        Tatyana, this is very much a white hot issue here. In 2000 in Wales a pediatrician was driven from her home by unknown people, who confused the two words.

        “Self-styled vigilantes attacked the home of a hospital paediatrician after apparently confusing her professional title with the word “paedophile”, it emerged yesterday.

        Dr Yvette Cloete, a specialist registrar in paediatric medicine at the Royal Gwent hospital in Newport, was forced to flee her house after vandals daubed it with graffiti in the middle of the night.

        The word “paedo” was written across the front porch and door of the house she shared with her brother in the village of St Brides, south Wales.

        Dr Cloete, 42, confirmed she had left the property after the “distressing” attack. “For the time being I have moved out of the area because when something like this happens you just cannot feel safe in your own home.

        “We removed the graffiti within hours, but what happened was terrible and it has been extremely distressing.”

        Gwent police confirmed that the attack last Friday night was prompted by a confusion over the words “paedophile” and “paediatrician”.

        The Guardian august 30 2000

        If you wish to manipulate people you need to speak to their primal fears. During the last 50 years, whilst many elite “pdf files” operated “hiding in plain sight” two young, working class sexual criminals, Ian Brady and Myra Hyndley, were wildly demonised in the newspapers. The stories would often appear alongside photos and stories of elite “pdf files” opening hospitals, interacting with charities (often childrens charities) and all the rest of the of the philanthropic window dressing the super rich use to distract from their obscene wealth.
        In 1993 in Liverpool two ten year old boys murdered a two year old named James Bolger. As the armoured police vehicle drove the killers away from the court, after sentencing, a pack of men chased the vehicle, punching and kicking it, in a fury I have never seen before or since. What struck most about this scene was the age of some of the men, many being in their fifties and sixties.
        This issue has been widely used in Britain as an instrument of social control in the last half-century. It will be difficult to erase this grassroots emotion, even with the massive propaganda effort being performed at this moment, which you describe convincingly above.

    • Pigeon English

      “But here is what I would like to tell them: look at the holy scripture and the main books of other world religions. They say it all, including that family is the union of a man and a woman, but these sacred texts are now being questioned”

      Holy scriptures are total nonsense and as such should not only be questioned but be in a dustbin of history.

      BTW I speak couple of languages but did not study “languages or literature”.

      People who believe in God and Satan are not to be taken seriously and their perception and interpretation
      of the world like that Bulgarian journalist!

      How far is Russia from returning to Witch burning and other Medieval practices? Is the Earth flat again and 6000 years old?
      Is sex before marriage legal?


      “a general statement or concept obtained by inference from specific cases”

      West is normalizing pedophilia and we in the West are degenerates based on couple of examples.

      • useless eater

        In Britain about 15 years ago, a scandal erupted concerning high-street stores stocking “sexy” underwear (diamante thongs etc) for nine year olds.

        “… based on couple of examples”

        There are many other examples, if you wish me to elaborate.

        • Pigeon English

          I am not talking about sexualisation. Why is that example of normalizing pedophilia?
          What about nail varnish, rings, bracelet, necklaces princess dresses etc.?

          BTW do you remember that one of Blair’s “Dolls”, Cooper or Harman or someone else was involved with some group wanting (to normalise pdf). “In Britain 15 years ago” suddenly reminded me of it even though this was 30-40 years ago.

          • useless eater

            It was Harriet Harman – something “man boy” something. She made some very inappropriate remarks, maybe late 1970’s, early 1980’s.

            “I am not talking about sexualisation. Why is that example of normalizing pedophilia?”

            The mothers who were buying the “sexy knickers” defended their behaviour, along the lines of “getting them in training” (grossly simplified) – the other side of sexualisation is, to be “an object of desire”.

          • Pears Morgaine

            Harman was legal officer of the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL, now Liberty) from 1978 to 82 when the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) was an affiliate organisation. PIE campaigned to have the age of consent lowered to eight (I think) and eventually wanted it abolished altogether. The organisation was wound up in 1984 after its leaders were arrested. Liberty have apologised and admitted that they ‘got it wrong’; Harman has expressed ‘regret’.

      • Tatyana

        Pigeon English, you say “People who believe in God and Satan are not to be taken seriously”
        I have a different approach. People who believe in God or a flat earth, in multiple genders or in lizards from Nibiru, in eating only kosher food or in Russian Untermensch – they are free to believe in anything, exactly until the moment when their beliefs lead them to attack me.
        I think that people have been developing the principles of coexistence for thousands of years, so that those who knew how to diplomacy have survived to the present.
        If I meet a person with strange views and we need to do smth together, then we either agree to ignore the difference between our worldviews, or we agree on a compromise. Taking an intransigent position precludes cooperation, doesn’t it? And, the aggressive upholding of one’s own position only leads to conflict, right?

        • Pigeon English

          What does that have to do with any of my points?

          How the statement that I am degenerate makes it better or has anything to do with a war. I am sure that Iranian Moral police will agree that even RF is degenerate according to the “SACRED SCRIPTURES”

          “Religion, which forms the value base of most modern societies, will leave the agenda, and the principle of secularism will be replaced by aggressive atheism.. ” Your Bulgarian Idol writes. Yes, I changed my aggressive atheism to:

          I believe the women belong in the kitchen and should not get involved in politics! They should be modestly dressed to not tempt the man, and of course “Patriarchs” should be the moral guidance and the man in the house should be a moral authority!

          I was disagreeing with his “family values” and us in the West being degenerates unlike the “Good people” following the scriptures.

          “Taking an intransigent position precludes cooperation, doesn’t it?”

          What does that have to do with war or pedophilia or homosexuality or degenerates.
          Actually following the Holy Books is “taking an intransigent position …..”

          What I do not understand is why would Gay people want to marry in Homophobic institution and even less why modern women support inherently Misogynistic institution.

          Of course God is a He and his representatives on Earth are Man and the best ones are Orthodox Patriarchs.
          They know what God wrote and meant in scriptures!

          I miss old good days when the man was in charge of the family and he was listened to.
          Those degenerates in Denmark have a women Priest teaching/predicating me about Christianity. WTF!!!
          Some of them were really good !!!!

          BTW what does the Church say about divorce and family values? According to western disinformation he might have a girlfriend, and possibly a child out of wedlock.

          • Tatyana

            🙂 Pigeon English:-)
            Firstly, you’re fighting a straw man. I intentionally omitted that religious things, as insignificant. Russia, 70 years of USSR, no church, no religion, working class parents, poverty of 90-s here – what sort of holy scriptures do you imply?
            Secondly, Putin writes his speeches himself, I’m not his prompter, corrector, editor or inspiration 🙂
            Thirdly, Russia is big, and multicultural, and multiconfessional. I mean BIG, and I mean MULTI. Perhaps, as the president of Russia, Putin felt he must mention smth that is in common among all of us.
            Fourthly, when I say ‘of us’ I mean it was a speech of the president to Russia’s Federal Assembly. Hardly, I think, you belong here.
            Fifthly, I think that Putin’s quote “protect our children from degradation and degeneration” is way far from calling you, Pigeon English, a degenerate 🙂
            Sixthly, my fellow jewellers take no shame to ask me for help with Math when calculating carats or rolling elongation factor. They would be surprised to know I belong to kitchen, happily, they don’t think so.
            Seventhly, I like cooking. I love being at home, taking care of my family. Treating them with smth. homemade is a pleasure.
            Ninthly, patriarchy 🙂
            The modern word ‘patriarchy’ is being profaned. The authority that a traditional man had in a traditional family is emphasized. The original meaning of the word ‘patriarch’ is a novice genus, meaning a male who seeks to breed his offspring in an habitat, while his female is busy reproducing and rearing offspring. It’s funny for me to hear allusions to patriarchy from modern infantile men who can hardly support at least three or four children, not mentioning a spouse and 10-15 children as the norm in old times, and all the family had to be fed by spending physical labor. Let’s talk about the authority that those men enjoyed in those families of theirs.
            Tenthly, the Russians feel deceived and threatened by the West. You know, you there combined in some sorts of political and military unions, like EU, Nato, and some others. There’s no need to distinguish which country you’re from, the block obliges your government to act accordingly to the US politics. That’s why generalisations.

          • Tatyana

            By the way, I can’t get past the kitchen affairs. I recall someone here tried to look witty about Ikea leaving their business in Russia. I’m not sure about who is now occupying the malls which Ikea built. Perhaps some time I may feel willing to visit there and know who picked up the properly marketed space.
            But the day before yesterday my Ikea frying pan broke down, so I had to order a new one. Received it with no problem, today, at a nearby pickup point, 30 meters from my workshop. Who would need these malls with such a service? It arrived fast, my husband didn’t even missed his favourite omelette for breakfast 🙂

        • Pigeon English


          “I intentionally omitted that religious things, as insignificant.”
          Why? My comments were about sacred books holy scriptures or whatever and you reply with loads of BS.
          I am happy that you are happy making food for your family like I do (degenerate).

          I love the 3rd one:
          “Thirdly, Russia is big, and multicultural, and multiconfessional. I mean BIG, and I mean MULTI. Perhaps, as the president of Russia, Putin felt he must mention smth that is in common among all of us.” against deprived, deranged, degenerate West.
          I love moral superiority of religious bigots in the East, compared to the Satanistic world in the west!

          Fourthly, he was talking to RF bigots, who I am not part of. I will wait to be addressed before making judgments!

          Up to the 10th all are Whitewashing and BS.

          The Russians feel deceived and threatened by the West. You know, you there combined in some sorts of political and military unions, like EU, Nato, and some others.” (Agree) There’s no need to distinguish which country you’re from” (absolutely my point to JK), “the block obliges your government to act accordingly to the US politics” (100% agree). That’s why generalisations. (That’s why we are all degenerates and paedos and homos and Satanist etc. It’s ridiculous and brainwashing and I don’t know how many logical fallacies it involves) . As long as stereotypes, prejudice, generalisation, nationalism keeps the country safe it is OK.

          • Pigeon English

            “It’s funny for me to hear allusions to patriarchy from modern infantile men who can hardly support at least three or four children, not mentioning a spouse and 10-15 children ” said Tatyana.
            I am modern infantile man that does not want to support 3+ kids. What about your “Patriarch” and the spouse.
            Putin and Mother Russia needs children, and they are providing increased support. What happened to all those Russian patriarchs? All became infantile and degenerates under Western propaganda instead of having 7 kids.
            How many kids on average do Orthodox Patriarchs (real leaders and men) have?

    • Pigeon English

      Of course Sacred books should be cherished.
      Slavery and Chosen people!
      We have a problem. Should” the chosen one” prevail or the new “Messiah ” or the Ayatollah?

  • Pears Morgaine

    ” August 2020, Hasbro launched a baby doll that has a button under the skirt in the intimate area, when pressed, the doll makes lustful sounds. That is, children from an early age have an understanding that such manipulations bring pleasure, and then the acceptance of what is absolutely normal if an adult does this with a child. ”

    It was a blue troll doll, not a baby, and the button was placed so as to be activated when the doll was put in a seated position. It said ‘Weee’ and “ooh’, whether or not in a sexual manner I couldn’t say as I’ve not been able to track down a recording. The doll was quickly withdrawn after numerous complaints. Hasbro should’ve thought about that one a lot more.

    Yes the ‘family values’ bit of Putin’s speech reminded me of the right-wing reactionary politicians in the UK who used to bang on about family and Victorian values whilst secretly having affairs with their colleagues, secretaries etc. I suppose it must seem strange that in the west a group like B4U-ACT can organise conferences etc without government approval but that’s what freedom of expression looks like. The threats to that from various pressure groups and government policy like the the Online Safety Bill are undoubtedly a much bigger threat. At least no one faces 15 years in prison for defying the government line.

    Discussing paedophilia is not necessarily normalising it, there is a lot to be said for regarding it as a mental health issue and treating paedophiles in mental hospitals rather than just locking them up. Across the world long term re-offending rates for sex offenders are 15-42%, in the UK where offenders are put on treatment programmes after release from prison only 5% re-offend.

    • Pigeon English

      Pears says:

      “Yes the ‘family values’ bit of Putin’s speech reminded me of the right-wing reactionary politicians in the UK who used to bang on about family and Victorian values whilst secretly having affairs with their colleagues,”

      Now try to imagine how do I feel At that time nowadays leaders so-called communists and atheists were in the first rows of Communist party Conference!
      They are now in the first row in the Church. IMO those former socialist countries are proudly going backwards and it is not only Russia. If you believe that Ukraine or Poland etc. are better you are mistaken! It is going from bad to worst!!!!!!

      • Pigeon English

        I forgot to mention that about 40 years ago I was a young Socialist and Atheist but having Cigarette breaks I lose track of my thoughts (bitch (wife) wants me to smoke outside since we had a child).

      • Pigeon English

        I am not sure what is Russian Orthodox Church position but our family values guy (Putin) is divorced and might
        have a child out of the wedlock.
        Of course most likely he was not married in the Church as young Communist and, I would assume, atheist. ?

  • Jack

    So one year with this idiotic invasion that has led to nothing good, yesterday 144 nations in the UN condemned Russia. About 7 nations voted against. Russian softpower and military hardpower have been tarnished to bits in just 1 year. Today, the West does not even care what Putin say because he has become insignificant and weak with his babbling speeches.
    Russia have had 365 days to strike Ukraine where it hurts with missiles and jets, instead they have been fighting Ukraine with humans! It seems that Russia is stuck in WW2 in terms of their outdated strategy they have been using.

    And on this topic, it is absurd that Russia have no intelligence that recorded the Nordtream sabotage. What a failure!

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